Football Daily - 72+ EFL Pod: Clement to Norwich and 3UP?

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Chelmsford City forward Lyle Taylor and Middlesbrough’s new loans manager, Tommy Smith, join Aaron Paul to discuss the week's EFL headlines.They dissect the latest managerial situation at Middlesbrough, with Kim Hellberg expected to be the new man in the dugout. Philippe Clement is in at Norwich, so the panel discuss the direction of the club and whether that appointment is a coup or a gamble, plus how hopeful the Canaries can now be this season.In League One, with just six points separating the top 12, who is best placed to break free of the pack at the top of the table? And who makes the EFL Ultimate XI, or is it time for a rival team?Finally, with over 100 National League fixtures kicking off three minutes late over the international break, will the 3UP initiative lead to an extra promotion spot to the football league?Timecodes: 00:30 Tommy's new job and fresh choice of chocolate snack 03:00 The mood at Boro since Rob Edwards' departure 06:08 Boro set to appoint Kim Helleberg ahead of Swansea 12:36 Norwich hire Philippe Clement - is it a coup or a gamble? 19:15 How many Championship teams are in trouble? 24:10 Why did it not work for Liam Manning and why will it work for Clement? 25:53 Lyle's radical suggestion for the Ultimate EFL XI 28:42 League One - 12 teams separated by six points 32:43 3UP campaign

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Hello everybody, welcome on to 72 plus the EFL pod from Five Live Support. No Joby McEnough this week after his audition last week to take my gig. So how was it, Lime? I thoroughly enjoyed it. We did miss you in your dulcet tones. Stop flirting with me. If Joby McEnough is my right arm Don't know what that makes, Lyle Taylor

Probably like my tight calf or something like that Great to have you with us LT Also with us, the former Huddersfield and Middlesbrough defender Tommy Smith Smudge, new job since we last three Congratulations, new loans boss at the borough Thank you ever so much I'm just a bit concerned though

If Lyle's your tight calf What on earth am I? The dodgy hammy. Oh wow, okay, right, okay moving on Nope, thank you very much I appreciate that, yeah, new job New role for myself, thoroughly enjoying it. And a good time for the football,

a couple of the minute, second in the league, so I can't complain. Welcome to the world of doing random hours on the road. I mean, you and I have had conversations about potato-based snacks, maize-based snacks. But you have an affinity to a certain chocolate bar, don't you? I do at the minute, yeah. Probably a bit of a rogue one, if we're being honest.

It's a Yorkie biscuit and raisin. Can't go wrong. Very, very good snack for travelling home after late. midweek games. Yeah, do you know what? I can have one of them right now, actually. I'm a solid skips, man. I love a bag of skips.

I can't do raisins. Really? Raisins, sultana's not for me. Oh, that's a shame. You're missing out. No, no, no. It's the biscuit and the raisin. Yeah, it's the mix. It's the combo.

No, I like chocolate with nuts in it. You do, to be fair. You do. Tommy, I mean, look, you're putting in the hard yards right now. What's the plan? Do you want to stay in something like this? Do you want to move into like a sporting director, a technical director, what's the end going?

goal sorry well for the hearing now as it's about just learning on the job really i think i've been given an unbelievable opportunity by the football club to sort of go in in in this department and be the loans manager and i'm putting all my energy and focusing to that right now it's as i say it's a fantastic opportunity for myself to learn i'm very fortunate i've got people up there at the club who want me to learn who i can sort of lean in and ask questions to and like i keep saying it's it's a fantastic opportunity as it really is it gets me out i'm watching football matches i'm doing a bit homework, learning on the job. So it's all really positive stuff from my end. Tommy, how much of your experience as a player do you then plow into those young players you're going to watch? Do they come

to you for advice almost as if they would, like their agent or a coach as well? Well, I think that's been the key element in terms of the time in Lyell because I've only just come out of the game as a player and I think I have quite a good understanding of what it takes from a younger, from a younger player's perspective. I think I'm on good terms with a lot of the young players at the football club, which helps. You know, they know that they can lean on me. They know that I'm only a phone call away if they want to speak, if they want to chat things through.

And I think that's from the club's point of view, why they wanted me in the role is to sort of have that bridge, if you like, between players and staff. You know, it's all about helping the younger players develop as much as they can to ultimately be an asset to the football club. Not asked to do the interim job

after Rob moved on. It was funny you say that, actually. I'll let you know a little secret as I actually put a CV forward for the 72 plus team. It's safe to say it got knocked back. Yeah, no. I mean, what's it been like in terms of since, you know,

Rob's departure last week? We'll talk about, you know, potential candidates and get your take on that and get Lars take on that. But a bit of a shock and naturally disappointment, I'd imagine. Yeah, I think naturally, yeah, because of how well we were doing. You know, ultimately, we are where we are in the league. Second place in the division. Everything seems to be going the right way.

And then obviously you get that news and Rob leaves. and it's almost like how do you react to it? But I think what's happened in the past has happened. I don't know it's pretty boring and of me to say, but it's about what's next for the football club. I think the game on Saturday against Birmingham was a big day for the football club in terms of the sort of unity

and the sort of togetherness that was shown on the day, certainly from the supporters. I think Adi Vivas deserves an enormous amount of credit for how he handled the situation. There was a lot of noise around the club Thursday, Friday, Saturday and for him obviously to go out, take the team, stick his chest out. and get the three points, which we did.

I think him and the play is deserving a huge amount of credit. You know, it had been quite easy. I'm sure, Lyle, you've been in probably the same situation as me over the years where situations like that happen. And it can go one or two ways as, you know, it can go down the route of, oh, let's all feel sorry for ourselves, the managers left, and it can become a really tough day. But it was the polar opposite on Saturday as, you know,

the atmosphere was absolutely fantastic. The performance was great. Against a decent Birmingham side, by the way, you were in good form. And it was just a real settler, I think, after a turbulent couple of days. Great performance, great result, two-week break. On the back of that, it was happy days from the football club. I often feel like things like that.

The siege mentality that builds instantly over those two days is often driven by the fans rather than driven by the dressing room because you kind of know what the feeling is around the city and around the football club and you kind of have to then, well, if you don't buy into it, you're going to get found out very quickly, i.e. 48 hours after the manager starts having this conversation with another club.

But I feel like the fans often drive that good feeling into the players and the players can only do the only thing they can, which is respond and help drive that football club forward. So I think you're right, it's a great day and a really, really good response to a difficult situation for everybody involved. I'm sorry, as it shows that togetherness though, Lyle. And that's one thing I've seen so evidently in the past three years as I've been there as a player.

and now obviously on the other side of it as a staff member there's that unity and that togetherness and there was banners across the stadium the atmosphere was electric on the day and players respond to it as a player there's nothing better than having a full house at the stadium getting behind the team and it worked both ways on the day

the fans were there supporting the players the players were there giving the fans something to shout about and it was a brilliant day and a brilliant result let's get into the future at your club Barra who looks set to Gazam Swansy City by hiring Hammabee Kim Helberg as the successor to Rob Edwards.

Now, it's Barrows' first foray into the European manager's market since I Talkoranku won them promotion in 2016. There's been a whole host of names that have been linked to the job, Stephen Gerard, Rafael Vicky, and Gary O'Neill had also been linked. A lot of supporters and people out there complaining somewhat, Tommy, and I understand that you can only talk about this from a limited sort of perspective, that the manager or market is a bit stale. could say that perhaps I suppose but ultimately as you know this situation is a situation there's a few clubs in the league Southampton Norwich

who obviously just appointed the manager which I'm sure we'll touch on Swansea and Millersborough all looking for managers I think it's a bit of a unique situation with Millersborough because of the nature of how Rob left you know normally clubs will replace managers when they're not

doing so well i.e. the teams I've just mentioned but Millsborough is a bit of a unique situation where our manager has left and it's almost like who's going to come in now and sort of grab the club to lift them to that next level, which is ultimately the Premier League. So it is a unique situation. I'm sure there's been a thorough, thorough process in terms of getting the right man for the job. And whoever comes in has got an unbelievable opportunity. I think that's obvious, that much is obvious, in terms of the

position. They've got a real opportunity to grab the football club with both hands and take us to that next step. Great gig, isn't it, Lyle, when you look at it in prospect? It is. It's like you say, normally when a manager goes into a football club or a football club trying to appoint the manager, they're normally doing it from a place of hurt, and you've got a football club that is on the up and is flying in the league and is trying to get to the Premier League, they're in a great position. I don't think, as we'll speak later,

I don't think there will be many that would turn this job down in its current state. It's going to be interesting to see what Steve Gibson does. The way that he has to navigate this now is difficult, and he's going to go, and he's trying to approach a manager from another club, and it's the first time he would have done that rather than plucking someone out of a free transfer or someone who's available already.

How much of difference is that going to be? Is there more risk attached to it? Listen, I think whatever a football club do with managers, there's always risk, not just at Middlesbrough, any club. You know, there's never a guarantee with anything that happens. But one thing I will say about the football club is it's got an unbelievable backing from the owner. He's loyal.

He's absolutely desperate for his football club to do well, which can't be said for a lot of other clubs around the English pyramid, unfortunately. And that's what I think makes Millersborough so unique in the sense of it's got good people at the football club who are desperate for the club to do well for the right reasons.

And I think moving forward, whoever comes into the door, like I've just said, I actually don't know who it's going to be, but whoever does come in has got a fantastic opportunity because they've got that ladder above them who are willing to back them and want them to do well

and are desperate for them to do well. And I think that all things consider counts for a hell of a lot. I understand it's difficult to, to obviously talk about the potential new manager because nothing's been confirmed yet. But what kind of style of manager and style of football will Barrow fans want to see?

How do you develop what Rob Edwards has built so far this season and take it up a notch and ensure that the club return to the Premier League? Well, that's it. Well, I mean, ultimately, for whatever has happened with Rob over the last week or so, he's put the team in the club in a position, which is, again, for someone to walk into,

it's a great position for them to be in. I think the next step for us is building on that and going one step further in terms of winning football matches, which is ultimately the ultimate goal. You know, I think a lot of clubs now and a lot of teams now are so obsessed with all the other bits and pieces that come with it, i.e., XG, possession, passes, all that type of stuff. But ultimately, if you're not winning football matches,

as Lyle, you know the score, you know what's coming. You only have to look at Southampton who are dominating games, possession-wise, but ultimately they've ended up sacking the manager. So I think what the next person needs to do is come in and obviously weigh up what's what, see what's what, but win football matches. I think any team in the league, certainly Millersborough fans,

and I have a good understanding of what they like, what they want, they want to win football matches, they want to play progressive football, they want to be hard to beat, and ultimately this manager who's going to come in next, will I'm sure, well, I'm sure he will have that sort of remit, but I think there'll be all and end all of it is, as it to win football matches like any other manager

who wants to come into a club needs to do. Is this a good time or a bad time, Lord, to be bringing in a manager who may want to change things up. Obviously, January around the corner, we've got six, seven weeks to the window opening and, you know, fans will want to see alterations, but a new manager may come in and go,

well, he's not mine, he's not mine, he's not mine, I need to bring players in. Could that potentially derail things a little bit? It could potentially, but then you'd like to think that the manager who, the incumbent, whoever he might be, the manager coming in will take a look at the squad and say, okay, for the time being, i.e. probably this season, I won't rock the boat too much. It's more about implementing a style of play

or his principles, whatever they may be, than tearing everything up and starting again. Once you're in season, it's very difficult to have the coaching hours that you need because invariably in the football league was Saturday, Tuesday or Saturday, Wednesday or whatever it might be now. So I think it's more about evolution than revolution, and that's probably going to be the case for the next six months of the season. I don't believe tearing the whole game up and starting again is the way forward, but then will that then influence who takes the job and their style of management or style of coaching or style of play? I don't know. These are the questions, I suppose, you have to ask. But that's what's interesting, though, Lyle, isn't it? That's what's

interesting about the situation that the championship finds itself. And now with certain clubs looking with vacant positions in terms of managers, because as we've just touched upon there, you look at Millersborough, who were second in the league, I certainly don't think it's a case of ripping it all up, starting again. I think it's just the case of adding to it and going to that next step, whereas you look at some of the teams who are down the bottom, they almost look like they need a full reset, but as you've just said and you're right in saying,

there's not that time to do it. It's difficult to do that when you're sort of at the bottom of the league, you're coming into a busy, busy Christmas period when there's games, Saturday, Tuesday, Saturday, Tuesday. These managers don't have the time to sort of go in and rip it all up and start again. So it's two completely contrasting situations really when you look at it like that. Let's flip the table upside down because Norwich City, well, I mean, they have appointed a new boss desperate to change their fortunes.

23rd, nine points for 15 games. They've lost all eight matches at Carra Road this season, former Rangers boss. Philippe Clomont is the new man in the dugout. Norwich also spoke to John Dalton and the man linked with every job out there right now. Gary O'Neill before Clomont. Just a bit of a bar. and he was sat by Rangers in February after 16 months in charge.

He twice reached the UAE for Europa League last 16, picked up a league cup. He's won three Belgian Pro League titles. He's also managed Monaco. Is this a coup, as I'm reading online, Lyle, or is it a massive gamble? I think it's a massive gamble. But like we've just said, the managerial market is very stale. So where do they go otherwise?

I suppose the only way we will know is when we're talking about this in six months' time when he's either had success or he's been sacked and it sounds really cut and dry but how Norwich could go either way at this point there's nothing that you look at and go yeah okay Norwich this will be a really good appointment and Norwich will fly from this point

that I don't see those green shoots Tommy this is going to take more than just the new managerial appointment it is but what more can you do as ultimately what more can you do we're in season yes January is just around the corner but as we just touched upon off air that the problem with January is

it's a tough market at the best of time of January I think a lot of the stuff that happens in January is loans and you're sort of sniffing around for different bits and pieces the problem I have with is

I look at Norwich's squad and it doesn't strike me as a squad that can navigate their way through a 46 game season that is my biggest problem let me just address the elephant in the room we were talking about obviously the director of football Ben Napper

he's coming for a lot of flack from Norwich City fans I think we need to just have an open discussion about it and say, how does Mark Atanasio back Ben Napa again after, I mean, the money that was spent in the summer, they've looked poor, abject at times, Norwich City. How do you find the confidence to back someone again with money?

Well, again, this is the problem, as isn't it, and as I've just touched upon there, with January, it's not a market where teams tend to go and spend a lot of money. You're sniffing around to sort of maybe knocking someone on loan or doing whatever it is, maybe a free transfer, them types of bits and pieces. so Norwich has spent a lot of money it's been well documented as you just said

they have spent a lot of money now I think the worrying thing is is they've spent a lot of money but they are let's take Sheffield Wednesday out of the equation here because of the deduction all the stuff is having the bottom of the league you know that is fact it's 15 games in they've had two wins out of 15 which is nowhere

near enough for the amount of money that they've spent so what do you do in January do you go and spend against try and get yourself out of that situation or just sort of hang fire and keep the money in and try and just get out of it it's a really really tough situation for Norwich at the minute and I'm sure they'll be hoping that the new manager who's just gone

in will be able to navigate the way out of it but it's easier said than done that as we all know would this almost be like Birmingham City of two years ago where it might be a blessing in disguise to clear the decks and to clear the football club of I don't want to call players

Deadwood because it sounds really bad but to slim it down maybe but Lyle have spent some money in the summer mate that's the thing there's nothing clear they've spent some serious money I get what you're saying and I think in some circumstance at some football clubs I get it

I think Sheffield Wednesday if they were to get relegated for example on the back of what's happened it might be a blessing for them to have a reset but I look at Norwich at the start of the season make no mistake about it

their remit will have been top six make no mistake about it Hold on a minute Johannes Hofthorrup lost his job because they weren't challenging for the playoffs exactly

that's the long and short of it exactly no and what I'm saying you're right and I'm not saying you're wrong but then okay so you're going into a January market in five weeks from now, six weeks from now, which is massively expensive as well,

by the way. So yes, not only have you spent money in the summer and spent a lot of money, you're then going to pay over the odds for the players that you want with a manager who's just been put into position, with a director of football, sporting director, whatever the name of the job is, who has already failed expensively through one transfer window and has the backs up of all of the fans who are putting money into your football club. You first off, you cannot back that sporting director, director of football, whatever it is. The manager needs backing because he's just

taking a job and it's quite clear you've got a squad that isn't up to it. So what do you do? Well, you wouldn't have took the job though, would he, Lyle? It's interesting as you touched on before about the names who have fell through, if you like, the Gary O'Neill and the Yondar Thomason. It's interesting because you don't know. It's speculation in terms of the conversations that Philippe Plymont's had at the football club

because make no mistake about it. I don't think he would have took the job if he didn't have assurances one way or other what was going on further down the line. You know, managers don't go into clubs now blind. They can't do. So whether or not he's had assurances in January that this is what you've got

or this is what you haven't got. He's obviously agreed to them terms. So he's just got to get on with it now. Whatever way Norwich decided to go moving forward, he's gone in there on a three and a half year deal. He's just got to get on with a job in hand. What is enough? What is enough?

Do you need a complete spine of your team? Do you need two centre midfielders, two centre-afts and a striker? Do you need a goalkeeper? Do you need wingers? And if, let's say, for example, to turn it around, you needed five or six players who are going to come in and play, by the way, we're talking about starting 11 players.

What does that cost now? 50 million? 60 million? It does. But I think, again, and I go back to the manager situation, Norwich are where they are, Lyle. They are second bottom in the league only because of Sheffield Wednesday. Now, you know what it's like as a player.

If you get to January and as a player, Norwich come knocking and your second bottom in the league, maybe four, five, six points adrift, what is the likelihood of you going there? Well, you go there and they have to pay over the odds and they pay the player more money than the player was on with a lack of a relegation clause in that contract to try and save the football club

and it costs them even more money which is where it's a death spiral, wasn't it? You're paying it plus, look, anyone you're going to get your number one target. Not if you're Norwich, no, because somebody else higher up the league who's already wanting that player. You're not going to get a number one target one. You're going to find players that are, I think, unsettled, is the fair word, unsettled players that haven't played.

Unloved, unloved, unwanted. Players that need a bit of a jean-up and may be not ready to go into battle for your football club. And you'll be paying attacks because people know you're desperate. It's going to be a very expensive January for that football club.

It's going to be very expensive for a lot of clubs in that, Ryan. I mean, I just want to just break away and look at the bottom end of that table. Sheffield Wednesday, minus four points from their 15. Guanted, they've obviously had a 12-point deduction after entering administration.

Norwich 9 points from 15. Sheffield, United, 10 from 15, Oxford United, 13 for 15, one winning 5. Portsmouth are the one that, they worry me. They really, really worry me.

They are on a slide, 14 points from 15. Blackburn Rovers, highly inconsistent, 16 from 14. Swansea have made the decision to make a change. 17 from 15, Southampton as well, 18 from 15. How far up do you look and go,

yeah, I'm worried about that team? Do you know what there was? Do you know what is interesting, right? And you've just mentioned it before, and you say about Portsmouth, and I get it, I do get it. Fratton Park is a tough place to go. Carroll Road, notoriously, as Lyle said off,

has been a tough place to go. It doesn't seem that anymore. And if Norwich are going to have any sort of success over the next four, five months and, you know, I've got any chance of staying in the division, their home form needs a huge, huge upturn. Because one thing that Fratton Park is at the minute, yes, they're on a, I get what you're saying,

then could be on a bit of a downward spiral. Frat and Park is still a tough place to go and Portsmouth will pick up results there. Norwich need to do the same if they've got any chance of getting out of the position. They lack goals like Pompey. They do, but they can still win at home, is the point I'm trying to make.

How many games is it now that Norwich haven't won at home? Is it eight? Yeah, well, they haven't won. They've lost all their games. Exactly. That is not, it's not good enough. Who else are you looking at? And are you worried about it in there?

I worry, really, from Swansea down. I think Southampton will have enough to keep themselves safe and out of it. I think Blackburn will be proven to have enough to keep themselves out of it. And I think you look where a third of the way through the season now, if you only have nine points, ten points

like Sheffield United, I think Sheffield United will have enough to get out of it. They've got enough experience, enough good players and enough money behind them. I don't see a way of Norwich getting out of it. Oxford and Portsmouth, yes, they might be right on that cast. You know what Gary are outside is all about. They'll dig their heels

in. They've actually looked decent. No, but they've looked decent. In the games I've seen them, they've looked decent. They haven't gone out and been absolutely battered by teams. They're not amazing, but they've got some good players. No, but if it's backs to the walls, you know what Gary Rout gives you. And you know what his team will be forced to do and forced to give you. We can't say that about an incoming manager and a team that quite clearly has a hang-up about playing at home, can we?

I think one thing about Oxford is, and you're right, Lyle, I think Oxford know what they are and they're good at what they do, ultimately. This league has really struck me this year in terms of it. It's very, very open. And I think a lot of that, you only have to look at the top six. It's not great, Tommy. it's wide open as I think it is the way I look at it in terms of

there's teams in the top six no disrespects them whatsoever but you know your Prestons your mill walls who are good at what they do the direct, the physical and they're in the top six so the point I'm trying to make is

I think if you're good at what you do you can be successful in this league and what success is is different for every club success for Oxford I'm sure will be staying in the league but if they're good at what they do between now and the end of the season they'll have enough to stay up

I'm just looking at Norwich and I don't know what they're are good at, in terms of what is their style, what is their sort of do you know what I'm saying? That's my worry for Norwich. I don't actually know what they are as a team. There's an over-reliance on Josh Sargent and Philip Clement needs to address

that and if that means going out in January and getting someone who's going to stick it in the back of the onion bag and get the job done, then so be it. What I worry about for the new manager is that the descent towards the board and the director of football is so so big and so

intense that it will overshadow what they're trying to do on the pitch? Can they use that as a siege mentality? I don't know. It's difficult because he's just put the manager in place. The manager can't turn around and say to the fans and the dresser room right, look, it's us against the world. Because then that looks awful on him.

But knowing that the situation is the situation, is the sporting director going to be in the job in six months' time or a year's time? Probably not. So then who goes first? Does the manager get the sack for us? Or does the does the sporting director get the sack the manager has to find common ground with his players

and it has to be we're back to the walls and we are swinging and I think if you do that you can potentially get the fans on the side but that's all well and good though Laya but you've just said it before about the spine of the team and again that is one thing I look at with Norwich and I think do I sort of see that I think that's my problem

the money that they've spent is there that real sort of leadership that real sort of experienced spine as you rightly said. A lot of them are prospects but where's the spine that Liles talked about as that's the worry you know, I think that's the concern. When you are backs against the ropes, as they are at the minute, you know, it has to be said where is that sort of experience, leadership that you can sort of rely on to

think, right, we need to get out of this mess? Why did it not work for Liam Manning and why will it work for Philip Clemont? I don't believe it will. I believe we'll be sat here in three months' time with Norwich in the same position. and we'll be talking about potential manager or who's the next one. I can't see it working. Tom?

A million dollar question, as isn't it? Why does it not work for a manager? It's a tough one. You know, I do like Liam Mann and I thought you've done an unbelievable job at Bristol City, but again, I just go back to that little bit

of sort of experience, spine. You know, you look at that Bristol City team and it looked to me like a team of players, not necessarily individuals, a team full of players who knew what was expected who sort of knew how to navigate the way through a season and then I flip that to the Norwich team and I see individuals

and I don't see a team who know how to navigate the way through a season. Philip Klamant's first three games in charge at Norwich. Birmingham away Saturday, November 22nd. On the Tuesday 25th, they entertain Oxford at home and then it's QPR at home on Saturday, November the 29th is going to be absolutely fascinating to see. I'm Maisie Adam

And I'm Susie Ruffle And we host the women's football podcast Big Kick Energy Each week we bring you the latest From the WSL and beyond Whether you're a lifelong fan like me Or a newer fan like me And have recently got swept up

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Yeah, listen now on BBC Sounds Yeah, you should, okay, cool 72 plus the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul. Let's look at our ultimate EFL 11. Time now to discuss it. Tom, it's changed a little bit to you last on, including one-year-old Borough teammates, Johnny Howson being involved.

A reminder of the team, Casper, Schmeichael, Graham, Alexander, Solbamber, Wes Morgan, George Friend, Johnny Howson, Wes Hu-Hulam, Peter Whittingham, Jamie Vardy, Billy Sharp and Ricky Lambert. Send us your suggestions in on 08,000, thousand two eight nine three six nine you can WhatsApp us with a message or a voice no anyone else still anyone else to be changed anyone no smudge i'm not you know what i was actually one who put

johnny house from forward he was my pick for that team but i'll be honest with you i was looking at it now i there i say it looks pretty solid mate i don't think there's much room for maneuver now i mean when i when i did hand the CV in for the boys at the millisbury job i did send the team in obviously didn't get us uh get us quite over the line unfortunately but maybe it was joby's record managerial record that put the he won't be happy about that

not after Jamaica have just failed as well he's not here I'm only saying because he's not here you can just imagine it just sat in seconds ah no do you know what I'd like to see in this in this in the ultimate 11 I'd like to see you know when we were growing up you had those

players who could just do crazy stuff. Mercurial players. Mercurial. Your Yanik Balassies, your young Wilf Zahars, Adel Tarabt, these players, I'd love to see a little bit of that in this team. Yeah, something that's just a little bit different because I feel like we're powerful, we're a very good team here, but I just want to see a little bit of magic.

I think in fairness to our co-host, Jobby McEnough, he did say a about it's probably a different 11 that is, isn't it? I think this one we've got now is looking like an ultimate sort of real experience, sort of hard to be winning mentality, but I agree there's probably a time and a place for a different style of 11. Are you trying to think, Nick yourself in this team here?

Absolutely, no chance. Why not? I think there could be seven or eight different EFL teams before my name even gets brought up. But maybe, maybe we should have the Ultimate 11's opposition team. What, like the fire to the ice? Yes.

I'm down. I'm down. If everyone else is in, 08,000, 289, 369, get involved on the message, on WhatsApp messaging or voicemail out of us. Send us suggestions for the opposite team. Let's build them. Build it and they will come. Lyle Taylor, I am on it.

Now let's drop into League 1. The top 12, separated by just six points. Stopport lead on 20. they had a Lincoln on goal difference with four teams from ninth to 12 on 22 points everyone in between feels like a bit of a genuine candidate for promotion

Stopport league leaders big problem though Oliver Norwood our old mate out for up to eight weeks he's been so so good in their engineering isn't he? For two and a bit years now he is exactly what you'd have expected of him being there

and how do you replace that how many games are they got in this eight week period what 12, 13, 14 games I mean, that's another third of your season gone before he's back it'll be telling it'll be 100% it'll be telling Who else are you looking at in League 1

Tom obviously look I mean Luton Town I think there'll be all eyes on Jack Wilshire first real managerial gig or first full-time managerial gig obviously he was into him at Norwich but you know held by rather a midweek but they're building something I spoke to

someone in their camp yesterday who turned around and said that they all back him they're all with him and, you know, he's got the place unified once again. Well, one thing they've got at the minute as is clear. They're unbeaten in five. They've got a bit of momentum. And as we all know, in any division, Premier League, Championship, League one, league two. When you've got that momentum, you keep hold of it.

As long as you possibly can keep hold of that momentum. Yes, they had probably a disappointing result on Saturday, but they didn't get beat. You know, you've got to take positives out. When you've got that momentum that I talk about, you've got to take the positives. It was another clean sheet. They're in the pack, which a lot of teams are.

you know, Stockport are there to be sort of aimed at, which I'm sure Luton will be doing along with a lot of other teams. But, I mean, it's a fascinating league because, you know, you're not talking about early days or you're not talking about five, six games, and you're talking about 15. And as you rightly say, the six points that separates first and 12th, which is quite incredible, really. There's a lot of big football clubs in there.

You know, your Bradford, your Bolton, your Huddersfield, who spent a lot of money. So it's a really interesting league. And I think when you get that momentum, as I've just spoke about, you know, you put a three-game week, you get nine points out of that. it can prepare you to the top of the league. So it really is a fascinating division. But we could be talking about, I mean, top to bottom this league,

15 games in, 14, 15, 16 games in. We're talking 15 points top to bottom of this league. It's incredible, isn't it? If Plymouth had a good month, they could quite conceivably find themselves in the top six. I mean, the atmosphere around that football club is not good. No, I know, but in terms of numbers... He's just saying for arguments,

in terms of numbers and pure numbers, we could be talking about a team having a good month with seven, eight games in that month and going from bottom of the league to somewhere quite comfortably inside that playoff pack. So I talk Wick and Wonders, one of your former mobs, played 16, 20 points,

currently in 14th, Michael Duff has come in, they look absolutely magnificent. They've only won five games in the league this season, five games in the league this season, and they are six points off the playoff places. And only eight points off the top of the league. There you go. It's what it's all about. League one is always the league, isn't it?

It is always the league that delivers. I don't know. There's just something about it. It's just, it's such a weird mix of teams that it just, I don't know. You get the best action out of it, Tom. Well, that's why we love the NFL as, isn't it? And again, League 1 specifically, you know, League 2 as a season goes on, I'm sure it will end up in a cluster like it did last year. But League 1, as I've said, there's some big clubs in there.

And, you know, they are spending money. There's a lot of quality. There's a lot of teams up there who are scrapping and fighting. It really is a fascinating league. I must say, though, I'm actually going to the game this weekend. Bolton Bradford, that will be a really. really, really interesting tie, I feel, on Saturday. Two teams who are, you know, in the league, third and fourth,

so they're obviously fighting for that sort of playoff berth and two teams who've got different styles of play. So it'll be a really fascinating encounter that on Saturday, one I'm looking forward to. Absolutely. Going to be fascinating to see how things shuffle up again. Stopport leading the way Stevenage and second, Cardiff and third, Bolton in fourth,

Lincoln City, being brilliant under Michael Scabala this season, and Bradford City in six. Now, the three-up campaign had its big moment last weekend. It's more than 100 matches. kicked off at three minutes past three on Saturday afternoon, aiming to bring the issue into the spotlight. Three-up argues for an extra promotion spot from the National League to League two and has some big backers. Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, has praised it as well as EFL icons like Neil Warnock. Tommy, thoughts straight off on three-up. A lot of people saying it's like

turkeys waiting for Christmas if the EFL clubs are to have anything to do with it. I mean, I'm always of the opinion as if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's one of them for me. I mean, I open the floor to you, to you pair, what are your immediate thoughts with it? I think it shows a continuation of, I suppose, a carrot for the National League teams. But I don't see it be impossible if the vote is for the teams who could potentially be relegated. Why would those teams give themselves an extra 33% chance of going down as one of three rather than as one of two? it would be counterintuitive, but will it eventually change?

I suppose it kind of has to eventually. Again, I suppose it's to an element, and it's similar, I suppose, to looking at the championship and the Premier League in terms of, they talk about this, all this playoff talk in terms of, do they make it bigger? Now, I think the worrying thing from my point of view

was, is there going to be some clubs who are potentially going into the Premier League and it's going to be too big of a jump for them? And I suppose you've got to look at that from the National League and look at that as well with League too. does it give a team to perhaps sneak in there and the off chance of getting a promotion

but finding themselves in league two and just getting almost swallowed up? I think that's one thing to consider. I mean, it's mad because I know we look at the EFL playoffs when we sit and we say they are the B.L. Lendor, the National League playoffs give you pure drama, pure blood pressure drama, even the race to get into the spots.

And the way it's all sort of divvied up, it's confusing and it's, it's confusing. and it's so convoluted the way it's all done but it gives you action but again I go back to the original point if it's down to EFL clubs those clubs in league tour whoever it is it is Turkey's voting for Christmas

why would football league clubs vote to allow for another place and I know it broadens up the competition I don't know Tom I'm not sure I'm not sure I think and again it's a very basic a very boring answer and I sort of had the same feeling with the playoffs when they would talk about that

with the championship if it ain't broke don't fix it. And I think, as you say, there is an element of excitement, you know, in terms of the playoffs in the National League. There's an element of cruelty that comes with it.

Obviously, you can finish second in the league and you end up having to try and get your way through a playoff, a gruel in playoffs. Yeah, I'm very much of the opinion. Leave it as it is. The problem with the system currently, though, is that I believe it's 7th place third

and fourth place fifth? No, sorry. Eighth plays, whatever it is, right? Second and third go through to the semi-finals and they play a quarter-final, which is one leg, right? My issue with that is if we're going to do this, why not then just say, let's just have a normal playoff system like in the Football League where second, third, fall from fifth, go into the playoffs and you play a two-legged semi-final and you play a one-legged final? Because the National League are desperate to offer the incentive and the opportunity for more teams to try and fight for that position. But you know, I think it's a fair comment what I've just said, though,

as about there's always a risk attached to that, that there might be a team who were just not ready to get to make that step up. Didn't it happen with Gateshead a few years ago. Gates had as a club. That's because they're stadium. That's what I'm saying. That's not because of on the pitch. I mean, the last 10 years of promoted sides have had unbelievable strong starts

to their life in League 2. I mean, look at Bromley this season. I put Bromley as outsiders for the playoffs to League 1. They've done some really, really good things. And there are massive clubs. in that division who are desperate to get out of it, out of the sunroof. It's a club. The problem is with the National League.

And I say, again, with the greatest respect to it because it's exciting and it's fun to watch. It's actually really, really good fun. It's a swamp. It's a place no Football League club wants to go because they know that you're not, it's not going to show you respect and go, oh, look at this Football League Club coming down. It will absolutely chew you up. And when you're playing Wildstone or Truro or someone, of that ilk and you're going and trying to get a result, they don't care who you are.

They'll smash you up to bits, mate, on a plastic pitch and they'll send you back in. But against your point, though, Aaron, if these clubs were dropping down into the National League and they knew there were still three spots to get up, two or make, and one through the playoffs, would they not then be more incentivised because there's less financial regulation down at that level as well, would they not then be incentivised to pump money in, similar to Rexham and the way they did it at that time to get back out of the league? we could talk round and round and round this. We still don't believe that the EFL clubs are going to vote.

It's not about the National League clubs voting to go up. They are all going to vote for it. They're all going to want. Of course they are. It's the EFL clubs coming down. They're not going to vote to go down. So unless somebody vetoes that decision and makes the ultimate decision of making it safe fair. But you are, as a football league club, you are entitled to one chair and one vote.

So you're not going to, Turkey's at Christmas. Turkey's at Christmas. Absolutely. 36 days till Christmas, by the way. Jesus, better get a decorations up. That is it for this episode of the Football Daily. Next up, Masbrookie is here with Julian Laurent, Guillain Balagate and Mina Razuki with Euroleagues.

As for us here on 72 Plus, we're back next week. Tommy, thank you very much. Thank you, chaps. Thank you, LT. Thank you very much, sir. We'll catch you next week. Welcome to the brand new podcast series, Rugby League Top Ten with me, Mark Chapman.

It's where John Wilkins. Brian Noble and Jamie Peacock will discuss, debate and argue over lists of the best players, games, finals, iconic moments and plenty of other categories that will no doubt leave you screaming at your device. The most entertaining parts of our sport are these, the jeopardy, the moments. He made rugby league look cool. Yeah, I mean, that's the difficult thing to do, I think. It is really, is. Yeah, no. I think we've all managed to carry that bathroom.

Rugby League top ten. Listen on BBC Sounds.