Football Daily - 72+ EFL Pod: Ipswich up & Wood off to Wembley

Episode Date: May 6, 2026

Aaron Paul & Jobi McAnuff reflect on the EFL ups and downs. Hear from Kieran McKenna after Ipswich sealed promotion back to the Premier League. Richie Wellens doesn’t hold back after Leyton Orient just about survive in league One. Cambridge head coach Neil Harris joins the pod after earning League Two promotion. And Boreham Wood boss Luke Garrard swings by ahead of the National League play-off final with Rochdale. And messages and voicenotes always welcome on WhatsApp to 08000 289 369.01:45 Aaron opens the mailbag… 04:30 Kieran McKenna on Ipswich Town’s promotion, 11:20 Hull gatecrash the play-offs, 14:05 Watford sack Ed Still, 15:45 Stevenage controversially win race for sixth, 18:10 Orient’s Richie Wellens doesn’t hold back, 22:25 Cambridge boss Neil Harris joins the pod, 35:05 Boreham Wood’s Luke Garrard drops in.5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Wed 2000 Bayern v PSG, Thu 2000 Aston Villa v Nottingham Forest. Sat 1500 Sunderland v Man Utd, Sat 1730 Man City v Brentford, Sun 1200 Celtic v Rangers, Sun 1400 Nottingham Forest v Newcastle United, Sun 1400 Burnley v Aston Villa on Sports Extra, Sun 1400 Crystal Palace v Everton on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1630 West Ham v Arsenal.

72 plus the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough. Welcome to 72 plus, the home of the EFL from Fire of Life Sport, where we are all taking a bit of a break after a dramatic final day across the three football league divisions. The flare smoke has drifted, the pitch invasions have dispersed, and the open-top buses are back at the depot. Also in the depot with us is our, Would you be a single deck or? No, that's a terrible question.

Would you? What would you be? I've got a double decker. No chance. Joe McAner. Been in the gym and I? Is with us. Yeah, something like that.

What's happening? All good, mate. All good. Yeah, really interesting set of playoff games. Didn't quite get the drama in the championship. Well, I thought the second place, I think we all felt it, which would get the job done. I did feel there was a bit of value in the sixth place spot,

which I think turned out. I think at one point, all three teams battling for it, were in there during the day. Obviously, Derby got into a good start. Rexham, then thought maybe it was their turn. And then Olly McBurney turns up and gets his Superman cape on and drags hell in there. So a good bit of drama there. And then some unbelievable stuff, League One, League 2.

So yeah, good final day in the end, I think. Do you know who didn't turn up? Cool, mate. Queens Park Range. You didn't have any money on them turning up, did you? I hope you didn't. Don't bother. They are the absolute archetypal on the beach.

They had flip-flops. they had sun cream, sun hat, calm. It was like the dream match for it, which, weren't it? You come out of the traps, score first. I've got to say, if I was Millwall or Middlesbrough, I would not have gone into that with too much hope. Well, loads to get through. We've got a couple of special guests on the way as well.

And Jobes, we've had a couple of WhatsApp and a bit of fan mail this week. You sound surprised. Well, yeah, because it's not got your name all over. 08,000, 289, 369. Thank you to Rich in Sherwood, Oregon. You've been a Sherwood? No. Oregon?

No. He says, hello, guys. I listen to your pods on my way home from work. Football life is not just about the Premier League. So thank heavens. We support us of EFL clubs. Wait for it. Have 72 plus with Aaron Paul.

Ho! What do you mean with Aaron Paul? Exactly. Where's the hand? There's no and. Wow. Is that what's going on? I have a dog in the fight as a Saints fan.

But if Saints were to be promoted, I'll still listen to Definitely 2 plus. Do you know what's called Keeping the custom? Love that. Keeping their custom. He obviously knows. Repeat business.

Yeah, we're a pod for the people. We are. We are the people's folks. We try and give everybody a little bit of a mention, a little bit of love. No matter who you are, where you are. We're here for you. Love that. We got it.

We're doing it. Hi, I'm this is Stefan, a German from Basel, Switzerland, who listens to your podcast 72 plus every week. I'm a big EFL fan myself. I'm in England several times a year to watch your games, and I have an EFL podcast in German. Oh, wow. How is your German?

Do you speak any? What do you do in school? What language? Do you do French? Metal work. No, Spanish? No. No German.

I did to Spanish. German. Oh, listen. I love that. We need to try and get a translator. You've got a dual nationality for Spain now, don't you? I think we need to get a translator and check that one out. I think that would be a good listen.

Or maybe get them on. What do you reckon? Wait one minute. Should we get Stefan on? Welcome to. Welcome to Welcome to Welcome to

the house the football league of five life Ah, there you go Nice Welcome by 72 plus What's 72 in German Let's have a listen

72 Ah Anyway, I have an NFL podcast in German I think it's the only one I just wanted to thank you for your work Keep it up

And if you're ever in Basel Get in touch All the best and cheers Stefan You fancy a trip Well I fancy a trip But I wasn't actually named in this message.

I don't know if I'm actually invited, but I've heard Basel's a beautiful place, so I might just gate crash it. I'll take Clinton Morrison for the banner. 08,000, 289, 369, if you want to send us a WhatsApp. Remember, you can catch a latest from EFL Club on the BBC Sounds app. Just search for your club's name on there and you'll find all the latest news,

views and interviews worth saying as well. We've got a live show coming up on BBC Radio 5 live, 9 o'clock, Tuesday the 12th of May. Get involved. It's going to be a celebration 40 years of the playoffs. But let's get down to it. Ipswich Town have got over the line

and they have sealed promotion back to the Premier League. A 3-0 win over QPR. They got the job done scoring two goals in the first nine minutes. It was just the start they needed. It's now three promotions in four years for Kiran McKenna, but he was keen to heat the praise on his players. Over the course of the season, they've grown. You look at this last run, that's our eighth game in 26 days or something,

three away games back to back. It's been a lot of challenges. and yeah it was great to get back home today and come out like we did and it's not being easy for that group of players but they've really stuck at it and you know you can't you can't ever underestimate how hard it is to get promoted to the Premier League so it's a great achievement. How big an achievement is it, say compared to two years ago

because it's been a very different season? Yeah I think they're really different I think what was done before was I don't think it'll ever be repeated it was special to do it. Back to back from League 1 would basically the same. same group I don't think it'll be repeated again with the way finances are going stuff like that. This one has been more difficult in some ways as an achievement and certainly you don't just become a resilient team with a lot of character and togetherness when you walk in the door, especially when

the group doesn't come together until the end of August. So I think that's clearly grown over the course of the season and it's been really evidence for me in this last. And this last running and even in the running, you know, people can say drawing games and stuff. I think the eight games that we had in the space of time that was tough and it took the whole group to be together to push forward and that and to finish with one loss in 15 games or something I think shows that the character of the group has really came together by the end players obviously want to play at the highest level but you want to coach at the highest level how much you're looking forward to the thought of that again next season what does that mean to you to get back to that level I'm looking forward to holiday to be honest that's the

only thing I'm looking forward to right now I've not got much left to give as we stand here so yeah I'm looking forward to a holiday and then we'll think about what comes next you know a week or two's time to balls. There you go. Got another. How would you sum it up for upstich town this year? Job done. Job done.

Did what they had to do. No bells, whistles. We've used the term before. Underwhelming. And I think that would sum up overall from a performance perspective. But ultimately it was just about getting themselves back up. And I think we can say that now that it's done because that was the objective. It doesn't matter how you do it.

It's to go back up. And I think we have to put a little bit of context on. Yes, they had a fantastic squad. You know, I think coming out of the Premier, League when it's off the back of such a disappointing season, only four wins, you know, and a lot of a newer group, you know, they went and bought heavily for championship players that weren't quite ready to step up to the Premier League. And ultimately, that has probably paid dividends in the long run in terms of this season, just having that know-how, that level, you know,

week in week out. And it's a group that had to find its own new identity. I think it took a little while to do that earlier in the season. He's spoken about that run towards the end, the consistency they showed actually just digging out results at times because it is a different type of it switch to that swashbuckling, forward playing, attacking flair that we saw on that double promotion run. And I'm just going to throw in, you know, people just expect the teams to come down and go straight back up. But off the back of what was a tough year, you look at Luton, back-to-back-back relegations, you look at Leicester, back-to-back relegation, Shefford United haven't got themselves going again. And I just feel that actually, because the fact

They've just got themselves back up. Now is the time where we can say, you know, fair enough, you got the job done, well done. Ipsich are a lot better run right now than either of those clubs. They're better run. They've recruited heavily. They have recruited heavily. But, and I'm not sitting here saying necessarily,

I'd expect Luton. Well, I would have expected Luton with the personnel that they kept intact from that group. Apart from, you know, Ross Barkley goes out the door, fair enough. like they still had more than enough quality to compete at the top end of the championship. You know, that wasn't down to a lack of a level of player at the football club. That was a lack of mentality. Same with Lester. It's not down to ability or, you know, whether players have, you know, know, know, know, know how to do it.

Luton got promoted out of that league with a lot of that team that came back down. Lester won the league with a lot of that team that came back down. The only thing in between those seasons was a year in the Premier League where, in my opinion, I think players got above their stations. I think they didn't then do the things you need to do week in, week out in the championship, which is battle, which is graph, which is dig out results on a Tuesday night. We all know about the schedule. It's tough.

It's a hard, hard league to get out of. And I think that is what it's which in the end have done. Yes, they've got a good squad, but they found the togetherness. I don't think they've got a good squad. I think they assembled a squad. And if you ask them deep, deep, deep, deep, deep down, are they disappointed? They didn't win the league. They'll probably say, yeah, because they built a squad to not just win the league to do.

destroy it. Yeah, but also I think the point Kira makes and now the dust is settling and you do sort of look at it objectively is it's a very new squad. It's a new environment for that that group that last season was used to losing and to try and change that mentality around. You've lost your key person. I cannot tell you when you're in that group, how hard that is to find the new leaders to create your own moments. And we talk about it a lot, the Morses, Luongo's, you know, Conner Chaplin, the team was ripped apart. There's only one or two.

They had to rip apart. Because a lot of that team, the core of that team was a team that took them up from League one into the championship, into the Premier League, then back down into the championship. And it's evolution. There will be more evolution this summer. You look at some of the players

that are knocking around in there, the likes of Harry Clark. Connor Chaplin will come back from his loan at Portsmouth and head off somewhere else. Ali al-Hamidi, Chiogg, Benny. Sammy Schmoddix is still at Nipchethtown player, Aramura just a little switch down player.

What happens with players like Chubraakon and Ivan Azon and stuff like that? You know, there's constant evolution there. I just wonder if they've got too many championship players in that squad next year. I think that was a problem last season. And I'm sure that Mark Ashton will say actually this is the reason

we did it because we wanted to try and survive. It didn't work, but then give ourselves the best possibility of going back up. And ultimately, they've achieved that objective. So you have to say, as a strategy, it has worked. No, they haven't won the league, but they've got themselves back up at the first attempt. But you need Premier League experience or we've seen with Sunderland,

Premier League level, physicality, athleticism, which is you have to have to survive up there. And I just feel that they would have learned so much about that first season up there. Again, what that recruitment looked like. I think it will be different. I think Kieran will obviously look at a few things that obviously didn't go well. But ultimately, as a coach, you're only as good as that squad of players that you've got. They weren't good enough in the preemptive. Premier League last year, as it currently stands, they're not going to be good enough next year.

Let's push on and talk about Hull. How about them gate crashing the plows? Rexham could only draw in Middlesbrough. Darby ended up losing the Sheffeyard-Tenight. Holt came from behind to beat Norwich. Some transformation from them. Last year, they only avoided relegation on goal difference. I have really enjoyed watching Sergey Yer Leverich's team. He is an eccentric character. He's a fun guy to be around. I can imagine being in China. I can imagine being in training with him is probably quite enjoyable as well. He loves a one-liner, but his side, they play good football. Like they're intense.

They can be direct when they want to be direct. I think Ryan Giles has a bit of cheat code on the left-hand side of defence midfield, whipping crosses in, but they're so quick on the attack. Yeah, it's really interesting this one, because I was one of these people scratching my head when he got rid of Liam Razinia, because he said the football was going to say boring, wasn't exciting him enough.

And I thought Liam did a great job there. I think you're seeing now with how whole city play of what exactly the chairman, the owner wants to see. And they've been brilliant. They've scored goals, they've conceded goals. You know, that last game pretty much summed it up. You know, they were a goal down and they turn it around. But again, you have to go back to transfer issues in the summer.

What do they go back to? They go to tried and trusted players that have done it at this level. before the lights of a Jayhee. McBurney has been a revelation this season. Touch on it in the intro just in terms of him dragging them over the line with those two goals, but as a figurehead, as a leader in that dressing room. And over the course of the season,

you know, as we all sit here, we've got no skin in the game in terms of who gets in there. I'm really pleased because Hull have deserved to be in there over the course of this season. They've been incredibly consistent. Yes, towards the end of the season, things look like they've caught up to them, but to come back and respond

and get a win at the most important time because I had them to really struggle and I'm more than happy to sit here and hold my hands up when we get things wrong. It's actually more times and I'd like to note, but I had them to really, really struggle. Wasn't sure about the manager,

not knowing the league, but where they have really caveated that and try to balance that off is by getting those players that have got experience with the level. And again, they've just been a fun watch. And I think they're that team

that go into the playoffs almost with, I hate to say nothing to lose by getting in there on the last day it's almost like bonus time now and they're going to be a real handful I think for anyone they come up against obviously taken on Millwall

we know that would be a tough proposition for them but yeah you just wouldn't write them off hole would you no you really wouldn't the other game will feature Middlesbrough and Southampton just on a side note anything to say about Watford's

second head still after less than three months in charge just kind of what for doing what for things I think producer Nathan can roll in another clip of me talking about another Watford manager I mean what chance have you got I actually feel a little bit for him I think it's one of those clubs that you go in

and you're almost dead before you walk in the building because just the turnover I think players know that I think they almost play up to it there's clearly relationships that they have above the head coach's head and I just think it's such an unstable environment for everybody coach players

fans must be pulling their hair out and it's just another here we go again I think what they really need is someone with a bit of personality someone that's willing to stand up to some of the decisions that get made but ultimately they're not going to hang around long because clearly the ownership don't want that type It's stifling It's just honestly it's just ridiculous isn't it

And I just don't see how they feel there's going to be aggression What I think Watford should do If I'm really being honest Is be open, be transparent This is from the ownership by the way and say Look what we are is a player trait in model club. You know, clearly they've got other clubs.

We get players from there. We want young players to progress. We want to potentially sell them on for a big profit. And we'll try and be as successful and compete as much as we can. But that isn't going to look like a playoff squad. And one minute, heavy gratitude looks like he's going to get them there. Clearly doesn't get backed. And then this is what happens in the second half of the season for Watford every single time.

So I think at least fans there can then accept rather than these sort of empty promises all the time about what they think they should be and they're going to be competing for the playoffs because it just will not happen with this current model. Okay, let's dip into League 1 because Stevenage won the race of 6th ahead of Jack Willshers, Luton and Tom Cleverly's Plymouth, all three winning their matches on the final day. Stevenage scored a 92nd minute win. Have we seen this one, Joe? I have seen it, yeah. Talk to me. Still can't tell you whether it was over the line. That is for sure. And that's having

seen it multiple, multiple times. I absolutely get, I think the fact it came so late in the day as well. It's a tough one to take for Luton, most definitely. I know Stevenage and Luton have quite a healthy rivalry from my time, my season at the football club. That won't be lost on Luton Town fans for sure, or Stevenage fans. A very dubious goal, absolutely. And listen, they've got very fortunate on that side of it,

but some may say they've earned that luck, Stephen Ljohn. with how they've done this season. Jack Willshire, who we had on 72 plus last week, talking about the controversy of the goal, talking about how it's going to affect people's livelihoods, and that's because of one decision. It's really, really not good enough. Yes, but also no.

It's 46 games. Yeah, exactly. And I think that is something that, listen, ultimately, when you haven't achieved what you have, and I think Jack's done a brilliant, brilliant job. He's really turned things around, and I think they've got some real positivity to look forward to off the back.

of what is obviously a disappointing end to the season. But you're right. You know, you're talking about a point over 46 games. I think if you're off Luton Town fans, is there numerous occasions. Those points have been left on a pitch somewhere up and down the country. They would say yes. So this is the end result.

Yes, it's a harsh way to miss out. But I'm with you on that. And, you know, I've got to just say, well done to Steve Nitch and Alex Ravel. Just something quite sweet. I've seen knocking around on social media. It's a video of Alex. Revelle because he talked about leaving Stevenage the first time and I think one of his sons said like you haven't like read a book to me for like two and a half years and he just goes like I'm losing myself and he turned out to Phil Wallace and was like I think you need to find someone else to lead the club and obviously you know Stevenage moved on and Steve Evans comes back brings Rehves back but he's a genuinely good human being and it's nice to see good people do well so congratulations to Alex Ravel extra relegated late in or in survive you'd be forgiven thinking it was the other

the way around, given some of the things Richie Welling said about his orient players. Have a listen to this. The fact that they want to celebrate and walk around, I'd clap the fans because they've earned it. But then don't be celebrating with your family. Get off the pitch. It's been an embarrassing season.

I've seen an interview last week, maybe last week or the week before Michael Duff said that his players have wasted 10 months of the lap. And I thought it was a brilliant interview. A brilliant, brilliant interview. And his players in our dressing room that have wasted this season. Wasted it. We lack people that run.

I have to drive training every day. Whereas last year, Darren Prattney, the year before, Darren Prattley would drive it, Omar Beckels would drive it, has to come for me. And Michael Duss interview was absolutely brilliant. Too many players that have wasted 10 months of their career, wasted my time. I've had one year of my managing career that I've wasted on them players, wasted. He's always honest, he's always forthright, Richie Wellings. Did he get that one right or wrong?

I think the bit about wasting a year of everybody's career, I would say yes, because that is the feeling you have. I've been in dresser rooms like that where the season finishes and you know, you look around that squad and what they achieved last year. Yes, I know there's been a big turnaround of players, but again, that is a squad that shouldn't be anywhere near the bottom of League 1

and needing to get a result on the last day of the season to potentially stay up. I think the bit about wasting my time, I think you've got to be very, very careful with that because then there's creating a bit of a separation between the players and yourself. And ultimately, and I'm not for a second saying which is trying to say he's not responsible at all.

It's everybody's situation at that football club. You as a manager, some players have left. You talk about leadership. Omar Beckles going out the door was a real eye-opener for me because he is that guy. He is the leader. He'll get the team together. He will try and galvanise the group.

So I was really surprised with that one. And ultimately, he's got to have a chat with the recruitment team, get the right personnel in. Well, it's funny you mentioned the recruitment team. He said he doesn't want to go through the same erratic process as last year having 100 Zoom calls in six weeks. I understand that. but I also think, you know, having had so many loan players, you never fall in love with one,

firstly. Yeah. But you've got to go and replace him. You've got to go and supplement your score properly. Yeah, you do. But again, I get his point in that regard. And it has been a little bit like that over the last few years, almost waiting until the last knockings to see what loan players we can pick up.

That is normally a later process. For me, you go and get your sort of four or five, six. We call them generals. We call them players that are going to go and play the majority of the games. get them in the door as early as you can so they have a full pre-season, get to understand what the manager wants and you can't keep there,

always have a slow start to the season or in always. And then it's then playing catch-up and they've been able to do that over recent years. This year is too much to ask and then you end up getting into this situation. So I think between everyone at the football club, there's got to be a little bit more joined-up thinking when it comes to that recruitment.

This is an example of what can go wrong and nearly went very wrong if you don't get it sorted early enough. But as I said, ultimately everyone there is responsible and they need to do a lot better than this because this was a very close scrape in the end. I saw someone linking him and asking if he'd be a good fit for the Lester job. Obviously, he played for the football club, got a connection with the football club. I wonder. Yeah, and I don't want to talk people out of a job, particularly at a club that I obviously, a club that I know very well and always want to do well.

It just feels he may – he's a bit frustrated at times, Richie. I think he's very ambitious. He wants to manage at the highest level he can. Maybe he feels that will give him a better opportunity. If there's anything in it, obviously it's purely speculation at the moment. But could I see that as a fit? Five-Ly Sports. So here's the first ball of this series.

All the cricket you last. Check for Lerby W. Ouch. Lives on BBC sounds. Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Here, ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits.

It's a fourth cricket and it's the huge one. Creece, horse. Settled out of it. Cricot on five-life sport. Oh, I've been every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sound. 72 plus the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough. Joining the likes of Leightonorent in League One next season of Cambridge United.

Third place secured in League 2, Cambridge bouncing back at the first time of asking their head coach. Super. Neil Harris is. with us. How are you, Neil? I'm very good, Aaron. Thank you, Joe. Morning. I'm glad you said hello to me, Neil, because we've had a few people writing in, and Aaron's getting all the credit for this show. But great to hear from you, mate. And big congrats, yeah. Congratulations, boss. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Yeah, it was, I've got to be honest, it was the toughest one so far as player and manager, and it was the biggest relief.

It was a horrible couple of hours leading to the final whistle. Very, very difficult to navigate through that couple of hours when there's so much. any permutations involved. Was that what was the difficult part about it? Because, you know, again, going into that game and you're looking over your shoulders. And I know there's this sort of thing in the game of that, just concentrate on yourself. It's impossible, isn't it? On the last day where so much can, as you say, go against you or, you know, you're looking

at other teams and how they're doing. Is that what makes it that sort of anxiety and that nervousness sort of around the place? Well, Joe, when it's a cup final or a player final, you're just there in that moment? You're just two teams finding out. when is it like a title shootout and there's three teams involved at three different parts of the country is completely different

so we can listen to the scores elsewhere and update phones, etc. But anyone can score at any given moment so I didn't know if it's a stick or twist so just listening to Richie there and then Jope's like you're right if you talk about generals in the change room but that clarity there and that that preciseness

same with Richie. Richie's sort of right in what you're saying and that's experience leads him to say that my experience leads me to say to you guys now, I didn't know what to do in the last 10 minutes so they came down on the sideline. Because if I go for it, if I go for it and we try and score

to win the game to get promoted and we concede, we look stupid. Yeah. If, and we've thrown it away, if we sit back and don't go for it and the opponent's Salforda scored, which nearly did in the last minute, then I wouldn't figure myself either. It's still quite helpless on the sideline,

which is a, in my 600 games as a manager, is probably one of only two or three times in my career that I've done it. How do you reflect on, I mean, the season and the whole, because obviously, look, relegated last year and naturally that was frustrated. And you came in sort of February. How do you rebuild that squad? And what was it like having to, well, trying to put your own stamp on it? Well, I think at the time when I took the job back again at Cambridge,

it was a couple of reasons. One, I felt like I owed the football club because I'd left the year before. forward to go back to Millwall. And I think the second one was, I wanted to go in. It surprised a lot of people probably. I think Job was one of them. It was a bit surprised when I went back in at the timing. But I went back in because I needed to see it live.

I knew we was going to get relegated. I couldn't do anything. No one would have done anything about it. I had to see the culture. I had to see the players in the building. I had to assess all of it, the staff, the structure above and around me. And I wanted to live it for a couple of months. So we had a head start this season on doing that

Which doesn't guarantee you get a fast start And we didn't We had to change a lot of players Let 20 or players go in the summer So we had to make some big changes On and off the pitch But it gave us a platform to do it From middle of February

Myself and Mark Bonner To start to start proceedings So that was important That when we did go down I knew what I was inheriting And who I was inheriting And who I thought could help drag us forward Who were going to be my generals

In the Change Room Who was going to be the ones that need leading where do we need more pace, where do I need more quality in certain areas? And in terms of someone you've just mentioned there, Mark Bonner, that I wanted to pick your brains on because it's an interesting situation, obviously a director of football, in terms of someone who's actually managed the club very, very recently, has that been a huge help having someone who's got that real understanding of your job

and the challenges that you face on a day-to-day basis? because clearly it's worked out of treat. Job, he's a class act, class guy. And it does really helps that he's managed our football club. And he lives in Cambridge. That's really key. He knows a lot of people in the area just on a day-to-day basis. He deals with a lot of things around me,

so I don't have to, which is really important in the modern game. He knows what the culture should be at the football club. I just thought when he called me back in February last year, and said, look, I might be going to start of football. I need an experienced manager. Actually, you fancy it. We literally met out a couple of hours for coffee, and we were just so aligned.

We got on well anyway off the pitch. And we were just so aligned in how we saw the game, how the team should go, what staffing should look like, how we deal with scenarios. But until you get going, Joe, you don't know. But it's been phenomenal. You know, it's just been seamless in so many ways. He's a really good man.

And he should take credit falls on the players, obviously, and then the manager gets the praise, but he should be taking this huge amount of praise for what he's achieved this season. In terms of this season, the run of form from November to March was nothing short of spectacular, beaten once,

or if you want to look at it, from a bigger perspective, beaten three times only from November all the way to the end of the season. That's highly impressive. Yeah. We got beat at Notch County, I think at the end of October.

and we weren't very good I don't say we sure had lost the game but I just didn't like us and for the first time in McCrearie I decided that I was going to play two shapes at any given moment so took a little bit of a focus

back onto the coaching pitch and the tactical side of it and trying to teach the players the secondary shape in a space for a couple of week period whilst games are going on wasn't easy but blend on the experience of myself

and Adam Barrett to support and we didn't that's what was really key. You know, over that period, over that sort of 31 game period, to only lose three times, was down to the player's ability to adjust at any given moment to tactical changes. Just on that, Neil, I mean, it's fascinating to hear that because we see so many managers, coaches that just have almost one way of doing it.

And I think that is the key to getting promotions. You've got to find different ways, whether it is tactically, to find a way through games. But I've got a touch on the defensive side of it. 33 goals conceded. the most clean sheets, 20. I mean, that is an incredible fee in a league, again, that I've been in, where defenders do make mistakes. We see people trying to play out.

We see people not getting the right contact on clearances, people not concentrating on set pieces. I mean, that is phenomenal. What is that something you've really stressed to the players? That's something you overly work on. How have you done it? Because it's just such an incredible number at the end of the season. Yeah, it is. when I look back now, we knew going through the season,

it was important, but looking back now, looking at three goals, that is quite phenomenal for the group. Firstly, credit the players for their development, the coaching staff, Adam Barrett again, who's just got so much experience as a centre-half in the NFL, but also then as a coach as well, an assistant head coach. And then just just the culture that we've created, the mentality, is, you know, we give nothing away,

is that we defend as a team, start starting at the top line with the centre-forward, pressing, We have a structure on how we want to press. But while we've done that and been so reliable defensively, we've also found a way to dominate games in the second after season and create chance after chance. And probably then disappointment is that it took us so long to get promoted because we should have been promoted in April, really, in March,

if we took the chances that we create so openly and freely. I know you are someone who likes to be ultra-focused on what they do. How do you get downtime? though this summer. Where are you going? What you're doing? Obviously there's a small matter of Millwall in the ploughs as well, which I'm sure you'll have both both eyes on. But what does the summer look like for you, Neil? Aaron, that is a brilliantly timed question because it's twofold to it. Firstly, I'm taking my wife away tomorrow for four days to say thank you for putting up with me this year. So that's first and it's important that I mentioned, Claire, and

sort of all us managers out there. We have to appreciate that the people part with our children and our wives. So we're going to pop up away tomorrow. After that, I'm actually going to climb a mountain in Morocco for six days with nine of our best friends. It's my friend's 50th and we've had it planned all year. And I've got to be honest, it has been a driving force for me all season because if we've been in the playoffs, I wouldn't be climbing a mountain. So it's driven me and my friends, some of them came up to the last game in the season of crew and it was great to be able to celebrate with them. So that's really important to me, sort of my focus.

On the flip side of that, I was in at the ground yesterday, having sort of end of season, retain and release meetings with players. Recruitment doesn't stop, as we know and goes on. And really interesting to listening to Richie's point there about zooms, having 100, 100 zooms. It's the modern world. It's the modern way. We have to do it.

And so even though I'll be away, I'll still be zooming in into meetings with, with potential targets, recruitment team, etc. And then, you know, so that'd be a huge part of it. Come on, boss. You're telling me you don't miss the old,

you know, service station meeting, you know, the little chef. Right, do you know what? This is where I show me age. And Joe,

we don't think we're particularly old, but your grey beard, obviously shows it at times, as is mine. So we are getting older. We are becoming the old school part of the modern day football. So yes,

Aaron, still love the coffee shop looking a player in the eye. I was going to say, you can't beat that hill, can you? Like, you get a sense of that player, the character that does he really fancy it? Does he really want to work with me?

Whereas I think it can be quite sterilised when someone's sending over a stat pack and like you say, you're speaking over a Zoom call. Is he willing to come to the back end of nowhere for a lukewarm cup or something? Yeah. You call in epic back end of nowhere, Aaron. Is that where you hold?

Interesting to know, that's where you hold you. somewhere in the street that you go get seen by fans and stuff. This is the other thing with social media these days, do you know what I mean? Do you know what? I do, Joe, I like to look at the player in the eye. I like to have that chemistry with them.

I'm fine with the Zooms. We have to do it. It's part of the modern day football. You know, agents demand it with the players. So we do it. But look in the player in the eye, and whether that's in a service station, whether that's in a coffee shop,

whether it's at the training ground or I'm happy to go to the house. I'll come to you. You know, wife, kids in. Yeah, I'll come and have a cup of tea with you. that's me my personality so when I talk about if anyone saw my post match video in the danger of my speech after the game

talking about proper people and the terminology of the geezer that's why I like to look somebody in the eye and say chaps if you want to come and play for me this is what I am and who I am do you want to come and be part of it and if so I'd love to have you but I want to meet you first

will you be back for May the 23rd just have interest absolutely 1 million percent And I'm hoping I'm watching the Lions at Wembley on that day. I will be at the second leg. I will be at the den. We'll see you there, Neil.

Yeah, I'll be there for that. So, yeah, I do wishing the best, and I will be a huge supporter, obviously. I mean, if you're kind enough, I'd love to get my Harris. Is it a King Margul T-shirt delivered? So if you want to bring it with you. What, the range you've got going on there, Neil? Yeah, I've seen a few bits. Got a T-shirt?

got a pillow and we got the mugs, mate. Oh, Joby, you'd love the pillow. I'd like to a little pillow. You'd be resting well after that season, Neil. Jobby, is that your pillow for, when you're listening to Aaron for a couple of hours, you nod off? I'm glad you got to go now, isn't it, Neil?

Love that. I thought I've had a pop of Jobie's beard. I've got to have a pop at you as well, Aaron. There you go. I love you, mate. Neil, it's such a joy talking to you. And obviously, look, you know, can't wait to have you on next scene.

Brilliant show. You are the man. See it at the day, Monday night. We'll do. Look forward to it. Go well, mate. Enjoy your break. Cambridge boss. Good luck with a mountain climbing, mate. Thank you very much. Cambridge boss, Neil Harris, with us.

It's a big weekend coming up in the race to reach the Football League. It's the National League player final. 3 o'clock Sunday as Bore and Wood take on Rochdale at Wembley. The Bore and Wood boss, Luke, Luke, is with us on 72 Plus. How are you, Luke? Very well, thank you, lads. Hope you well. Yeah, all good.

What's the secret? What has gone on this season with Bore and Wood? because obviously, look, the club was relegated a couple of seasons ago down into the National League South, coming back, you left the club, you came back. It's been a topsy-turvy couple of years. 100%, mate. Them two years ago, relegating Bournemwood really hurt me, if anyone was to know this is my club, mate.

And unfortunately, I left the club some dark times in that six months, not having a job. It was a reset for me. went away, when I worked at my craft, went and spoke to a lot of good managers, went in a lot of good buildings. And when I returned, my language changed. There was a different mindset to me. I was very negative in the build up to the relegation season. And to come back in the building 16 months ago now, the mindset was all about getting back to the National League. And then I say it right from the jump at the start of the season, I said to the boys, we have enough to get promoted. And I genuinely believed it, spoke it, throughout.

all seasons set the seed and thankfully now we're at wembley with 90 minutes 120 minutes for penalties away from achieving that goal. Luke just have to have a word about I mean the table when you look at it we saw the last day you know you York and Rochdale unbelievable scenes and a titanic battle at the top I mean you guys finished in fourth 90 points Carlisle on 95 I mean that is just an incredible season for yourselves what is it about this league that you know, makes it what it is in terms of that, that top end and those clubs that are accumulating the numbers that you are and the teams above you did. So I worked it out that we had won three leagues in the last 12, 13 years with 90 points.

Obviously, what went on with Rexham and Knox County a few years back was incredible. And to see Rochdao and York have a proper ding-dong on the last day of the season to achieve what York achieved and Rochdao with the amount of points is incredible. For us to get 90 points, sorry, the boy year is 1.95 points per game in a calendar year. That normally wins you a division. For us, though, that season's done. I spoke at length after the game against Carlisle. It's a two-part season for us.

One of our seasons, we accumulated 90 points, won the National Cup, got to the third round of the FA Cup, but that's done now. Our aim was to be successful in this second part of the season. and we're two-thirds of the way through that and I keep saying to the group, what does the success look like now? I don't want to look back and say we've got 90 points. I want to go to Wembley and win.

Are you telling me that you don't scream on the sidelines because I remember what I think the first game I came to see it was in the FA Cup and I was put between the dugouts, you know, like that sort of weird walkway between the two dugouts. And all I was told is you need to just listen out of this manager because he's got quite the reputation. I mean, you had a reputation back then.

for being energetic and vociferous. Has that changed fully? Not fully. I'll be lying to say it's changed fully. I'm working on that, mate. I do feel the games evolving, and if I don't evolve with it, I get left behind.

The world's changed. This isn't about just football. The world's changed. And if I feel that I'm going to drive standards through whacking people with sticks continuously, it's not going to work. So I have to drive people with the carrot and show them the way as such.

But I'll use it as a tool. You'll see me in the forest green game later stages of the game I may get after a couple just to engage the right ones but I did say in terms of the group before the Carlisle game

to mirror me because I do feel calm I do feel that my preparation's been really really good you don't rise to the occasion you always fall to the level of prep and I feel that's been the case in these playoffs

it was the South End game and Cabongo Shemango got it from you fully got it from you it's quite amusing there'll be a long list of players that got it from Luke Garrod. I think I've got it on the opposition side playing against his teams actually. What's it like going up against Luke? Oh, you know one thing I've got to say

and I think this is it's a real balance in that Luke because you don't want to lose that that fire, that passion that clearly you have and you transmit onto your team any time you went and played against ballroom with home or away, but particularly down there, you knew you had to be absolutely at it individually and as a team to get something from it because they would just run over you. otherwise and a lot of that comes from loop driving that from the sideline so you know i think players are different now you know you've been there a long time how you like you say connect how you engage how you get the best out of players has changed um and obviously i'm glad to see that that is something that you're doing as well but don't lose all of it may i just want to pick up on that obviously

from your prior experience and listen i know this is a national league where i had a few playoff runs that didn't go successful as I would have liked. I know you did get up last year. What have you learnt from maybe some of those disappointments along the way that might help you just take that extra step and get boring into the football league for the first time? I think pain shapes you, Joby. I think that for me, a big thing that 1718 season was my best day

and my worst day. I walked my three-year-old out at Wembley as a mascot and I wanted the time to stop there because I knew what the end result was. but then things shape me. Then they drive me. Obviously the Knox County hurt when they scored in the 120th minute to go free two.

These are all things, these are all life lessons that I've learned hugely. The success last year, it was my messaging in the lead up to the game that I felt was key. And I think that that's not just driven by me, that's driven by everyone, the staff, the players. We have our cultural architects within this group. We have four or five of them that I lean on because I do feel a good change room is player-led and manager-driven.

So that for me is where I lean on the Femulis Amnit. I have to shout him out because he's 35, and I said to him this morning at breakfast, that he was gone after 90 minutes, and then Stowing Kinney him for the last half hour against Carlisle, and he says he's the desire to be successful, Gaffa. And I look at that and go, that's all I need. I don't need, I've not done a team talk in the last two games, Jobes.

It's not saying that I feel I need to. to do. At times I'm having to calm the group down. I said to him today in the team meeting, I want them to find calmness in chaos because there's going to be households that are going to be excited, right? Mums and dads are going to be excited. There's staff that are excited. We need to be calm. We're going to Wembley for business. We're going there early. This is something that I've learned. I've spoken to 10 managers over the weekends and asked for their experiences of going there. These are things that I didn't do previously because I need to lean on them things. But I'm going there, planned and prepared

and yeah I'm looking forward to put in the horn of 17 and 18 season to bed you go in there the day before letting players do their walk around before we're going there earlier I've told them today I want no no dramas on tickets I don't want no dramas on Wembley we're going literally anyone discusses

anything from Friday onwards they'll be getting fined because it's another game of football it just so happens to be at Wembley we'll be planned we'll be prepared they need to understand the occasion but we're ready. We'll be ready come 2pm.

Isn't it a 3 o'clock kickoff? I don't know. I thought it was 2 p. It's 3. Love that. They're dialed in the tunnel. 2 o'clock. 1 o'clock.

You'll be ready. Fantastic. Luke, best of luck. I hoping to see you there Sunday. Really good luck. This could be an incredible story. Thank you, lads. All the best, mate.

Pleasure. Luke Garard, the Boreham Wood boss with us. It's a special day. You know the National League final? The best moment for me is Byron Webs is taking that penalty. You know, he's got this look. He's like, Byron Webs is like a cartoon. This is the Bromley captain, by the way.

He's retiring. He looks like a cartoon. You know, like the typical, like naughty schoolkick cartoon? And he does this thing where he's looking at the goalkeeper and he goes like that with his eyebrows, do you know what I mean? But the best minute moment is, I'm sad there. Watch it. Then I'm going, he's wearing an ear for captain's arm,

What's he doing? And then I'm like, you can't do that, you can't do that. Mate, speak it into existence. He could do it. Wow. Wow.

I'm really, really glad Luke mentioned Femi Ila Samni. I played against him on a number of occasions. He really does epitomize, as he said, 35 years of age, still going, still leading. And these are the moments,

these are the games that, like you say, the Byron Webster will look back on, despite everything else they've gone on to achieve as a club, as that is an iconic pivotal moment for that football club that will be remembered forever and you look at

how well Bromley have done since they've got up there's no reason why Borenwood can't replicate that it's one last step for them my local club I'm only down the road and say I've crossed past

with Luke on a number of occasions so I really hoping it's a really positive day for them and just for the National League great for them to have the spotlight get that bit of shine which sometimes does go under the radar with the amount of football we've got throughout the people

pyramid in this country. So I think we've already seen that battle for the top place in the division. It'd be an unbelievable story. I think this final could do just the same. Can't wait for it. The National League final three o'clock Sunday updates into five live sport. And of course on the BBC Sport website and app. That is it for this episode of the Football Daily.

Remember you can listen to the latest news and views from every EFL club on the BBC Sounds app. Just search your club's name. Make sure you hit subscribe so you get notified whenever some in news. drops as for us here on 72 plus we'll be back next week catch you there you ever had any

anything manufactured with your face on it? Did you have any those bubble weds? What are they called? Do you know those like strikers bobblehead things? Yeah I don't think I did no just like the sort of match attack cards you know from back in the day and I dug a couple of them out actually

from the Premier League the other day and my kids are like oh my gosh is this all you were rated like 65 I mean you weren't very good were you? So I'm like All right. Cheers, lads. At least I've got a shiny. Got a nice silver shiny from the match attacks back. Is that when you're a wedding? Yeah.

Starman. Five live sports. BBC Women's Football Weekly. The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. Dame Serena Vigman. Welcome to the moment. Are we including Dame in your title now? You know how much an honour that is? I'm Richard! You want to play in a way that they can show their skills.

So that's what we're trying to do. Win the World Cup. It's a dream. With the BBC Sounds app.