Football Daily - BONUS: A first glimpse at Tuchel’s England

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

When did Dan Burn find out he was in the running for a place in the England squad? And how did Thomas Tuchel break the ice with Morgan Gibbs-White to call him up having initially left him out of the 26-man squad? Both Burn and Gibbs-White have been speaking to John Murray, who’s with Ian Dennis at St George’s Park for a first glimpse of Thomas Tuchel’s England. TIMECODES: 02:08 – Dan Burn Interview 07:10 – Is Tuchel looking for character in his call ups? 07:45 – Which Under 21s trained with the England squad? 08:29 – What’s different at St George’s Park under Tuchel? 12:45 – Morgan Gibbs White interview 18:47 – Just 24 training sessions to the 2026 World Cup?

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily podcast on BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Ian Dennis and greetings from St George's Park for another England bonus edition of the Five Live Football Daily. Last week we heard from Thomas Tuchel at Wembley after he announced his squad. And today we had an opportunity to hear from those players. Dan Byrne, one of the new boys and very much the man of the moment. And Morgan Gibbs-White, a late addition after his weekend call-up 48 hours after Tuchel

had named his 26-man squad. Well, last week, John Murray was asking the questions. Today, our football correspondent will be answering them. Hello. Hello. Before we get into the training, because I think that was quite interesting today, here in the sunshine in Burton, you have been speaking to to Dan Byrne. I mean what a whirlwind few days it's been for him. Well I mean where we're talking now we're just a few yards away really aren't we from from where the England squad have been warming up today before they will move on to another pitch but we'll talk about that later. But I thought quite significantly today when

they walked out and again it's late afternoon now on Tuesday and so that's a little bit of a change as well that England have started training late in the afternoon. But I thought significantly again when the players eventually walked out who's at the front of the queue Harry Kane as the captain obviously leading the squad out but just to his left Dan Byrne who has really come from nowhere to the top of the bill you know when we're here because the player interviews were taking place today in advance of these two opening World Cup qualifiers and I mean he's become the star turn. The first player, he was the

first player put up today to speak about the Thomas Tuchel area so that's where that's where he's come from and so we will indeed hear from him about when it was that he first got an inkling last week that he might be part of Thomas Tookle's plans. The manager I FaceTimed was on Tuesday and seeing that they were debating, calling us up and he'd let us know by Thursday and then I got sort of six o'clock Thursday night

and not heard anything so, except my wife has it hard. Nothing's gonna happen and I got a text saying, oh, you're still awake at 10, yes, straight away. Thought it was the good news and I did struggle to sleep. Well first of all he said I was very unprofessional for not being in bed for 10 o'clock so I apologise for that. And then he said that he had been ringing everyone who hadn't made the squad so again I didn't think I was making it and he just said he needed to end the day on a good note and that he wanted to be in the squad. Just to do what he felt my strengths were, which I explained when I spoke to him.

I said exactly the same thing to Eddie Howe when I signed for Newcastle. I thought I could offer just as much off the pitch as I do on. I feel like I'm a leader on and off the pitch. I feel as if I've just sort of sit into that role. I know it's going to be tough coming into here knowing all these international players and I've never done that before but that's how I feel like I can best help the team and that's what I'd want to do. Did it make you laugh last week when Thomas Tuchel said he's very tall but easily overlooked?

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, but that's probably the story of my career really I think. Visually on the pitch, when if I do do a mistake or something like that I feel like it's probably magnified just by how it looks. But yeah it did make it's life. So does the World Cup now become a target for you when perhaps the start of last week it wasn't necessarily? Yeah I would say Monday definitely wasn't on my radar. but now I think that's got to be the ultimate aim. I feel like there's gonna be a lot of steps that I'm gonna have to to go through to get there but I feel probably being in that very first camp is important. It sort of means that at the moment I am there but as I said I don't want to be there for no reason I want to be there because I've proven to people that I should be there and I said take me chance.

You talk about being overlooked. Did you actually think that this had passed you by? Yeah, I think so. I think there was a little bit of chatter around the World Cup in 2022 when I was playing left-back. I thought there might have been a chance then, but felt it was hard. I'd never played any international football at all, which worked against us, but it's also, I can't gain that experience without having international football, so it was sort of a situation that wasn't ideal for us. I did genuinely think that it was, that it had probably passed us by at 32, but when the new manager came in, it was always that feeling of, you never know. Similar, I went to Newcastle, I'd never ever thought that I was going to be able to play for Newcastle.

And it was one of those where I think all the opportunities passed us by, but luckily I've managed to get. I've gotta say, he was on great form, Dan Burn, and as you, as we both know, we were both at Wembley, I mean, you commentated on his goal. He was on great form on Sunday, but what was interesting for me was that he talked about,

you know, that focus, that Sunday hasn't really sunk in yet he still feels a little bit numb about it they've said that the parade in Newcastle is going to be on the 29th of March that's the day that he'll celebrate but he very quickly turned his attentions to being an England player. Yeah and he said didn't he today that it has been a real whirlwind for him but I thought just talking generally about how he's dealt with the whole thing like for instance what he said about Friday morning when the squad was confirmed he said that he went to Eddie Howe talked to him for about five minutes and then decided right I've got to park this for

the weekend and I don't know about you Ian just with everything so obviously we were involved in the score announcement reporting the score announcement on Friday and then commentating on the match as we were on Sunday during the course of that time I thought just the way that life goes the way that football goes I thought there must be a fair chance even though he's not scored for Newcastle this season that he would get our goal as it turned out it was the opening goal. And, you know, first man to score in a cup final

at Wembley for Newcastle since 1976, and it opened the door to the victory. So, you know, I think that's probably why he said, I still feel pretty numb about everything. But at the same time, you know, just as we have widely discussed over the course of the last few days, just the route,

the career path, the knockbacks that he had being released by Fulham at 25, he was talking about that today, having started his professional career at Darlington, sitting on the top table here at St George's Park today, saying, he said, he said the people at Darlington back then certainly wouldn't have expected him at the age of 32 to be sitting where he is now. And I think it's a real lesson, isn't it, in what is possible in life. Well I like your line in the commentary that Thomas Tuchel had used last week about being so tall and yet being overlooked. And that was actually something you brought up to him today, wasn't it?

But he mentioned it a couple of times so that must be something that's on his radar. Yeah but I think we can we're now getting an idea as well of this Thomas Tuchel squad that was quite controversial really in its way some of the selections obviously Dan Burn unexpected totally unexpected and the recall of Jordan Henderson it seems to me that right at the outset that he is looking for character and personality and I think that's been a trait of it so far so you know I understand why people would would take issue with with some of those selections but I think there is a

clarity of thought there. Well under the clear blue skies at St. George's Park just for the training there was a few additions as well to the main squad because Cole Palmer of that initial 26 man party that is now 27 because of Morgan Gibbs-White being added to it, Palmer actually still remains with Chelsea for further assessment but from the under-21s Taylor Harwood-Bellis, Adam Wharton and Liam de Lap all joined up with Thomas Tuchel's senior squad. Yeah and I know Adam Wharton did train yesterday the FA put pictures out of that so he was joined in in the first initial training session under under Thomas Tuchel but I

thought it was just interesting for us you know how many times have we been here and watched England squads warm up today, you know, it was different. As we said, it's later in the day so the routine for the players was completely different, a later start in the morning for them and then to train later and the very training itself, normally, if I look over to my left beyond the actual training centre building, we'd have been there wouldn't we on the Sir Bobby Charlton pitch, but today there's warm-up taking place on the Farrell Williams pitch instead and it's only the warm-up that was taking place there. Then the players are going to move back to the Sir Bobby Charlton pitch, so that's slightly

different. There are lots of subtle differences taking place here. And I thought, you know, just to watch Thomas Tuchel himself as I said it's chilly but bright and sunny. Training session due to start at 4.30 it was about 4.40 by the time they actually got underway and Thomas Tuchel himself in the two-tone purple England tracksuit that we used to seeing but he had a blue padded sleeveless body warmer over the top of that. He very quickly put a black woolly hat on He had a stopwatch in a whistle on his on his lanyard around his neck and he just stood to one side while

While we saw the the warm-ups didn't wait. Yeah, it was interesting I was speaking to the FAs technical director John McDermott because for all my time at st George's Park like you say a different pitch that's normally where the under 21s train and I said to John because for all my time at St. George's Park, like you say, a different pitch, that's normally where the under-21s train and I said to John, I said all my time here I can't recall them ever doing that but he was saying that's the continental approach that they will often use either one and a half pitches, two pitches, the overseas coaches just for the economy of time you know sometimes you've got balls on the pitch and you're having to clear them, so everything is then set up and you're

ready to go and it's the first glimpse we've had of this this backroom staff. Nico Meyer I thought was quite vocal, Justin Cochran watching on and there's Anthony Barry as well who is certainly highly rated I think isn't he? Just as we left Anthony Barry had then moved into position and started to take the next stage of the warm-up, I noticed. And when they walked out, the players walked up the hill from the training centre, onto the Farrow-Williams pitch, Thomas Tuchel was out there to meet them, gathered them round, and there was a quick talk. I would have said that was no longer than 30 to 40 seconds and one of the words that we've heard used today from Many of the players is intense that there is this intensity and I thought that was

Reflected that just gathered them around 30 40 seconds. Then we were off then he was standing to one side But initially they split up into three groups And there was a little game went on wasn't it where they had to keep the ball up and then put it in a bin So there were three distinct groups I noticed Harry Kane, Jordan Henderson and Kyle Walker were among one group in the middle. To our left Jude Bellingham, Miles Lewis Skelly, Rhys James, Marcus Rashford were in that group amongst others and I noticed a lot of smiles on the face of Marcus Rashford a little bit like what I've seen from from Aston Villa so far and then in the other

group which was Declan Rice's group perhaps Morgan Gibbs-White was one of the players in there but it was the Harry Kane group that won the contest did you notice? Well I was busy just chatting away watching other things. Shmoozing? That's not like him. I'm quite good at that at times. So the Harry Kane group won so the other two groups had to do the press ups. I'll pay more attention on Friday and Monday. That's teamwork here. It is. We've got commentary, incidentally, of those two games against Albania and Latvia.

But you mentioned the word intense and you also mentioned the name of Morgan Gibbs White because that was a word that he used to describe the meeting, wasn't it, that they held. Sir Thomas Tuchel had a meeting to address the players on on Monday night But he wasn't initially named in the squad so Thomas Tuchel when he's been Face-timing Dan Byrne. He's been calling up Morgan Gibbs-White Yeah, so quite a bit of discussion really wasn't it last week and you then saw him play on Saturday for Fair Ipswich town the commentary Against Nottingham Forest on

Saturday afternoon when I think there was a bit of a reaction wasn't there? So having been left out a lot of talk about it then of course on Sunday evening when we were at Wembley the word comes through that Morgan Gibbs-White is in the squad and has been called up so here he was today being put up to speak to us Morgan Gibbs-White and explained exactly what happened. It was about four or five o'clock on Sunday. The manager, Thomas, he sent me a message and said, are you free to talk? And I think I replied within like 30 seconds and said, yeah. And he phoned me up and said, are you still upset with me or do you want to come

and join us in fancy training tomorrow? And obviously there's no question there. Obviously I said, obviously I'd love to come and join and train with the boys. So yeah, I found out Sunday, late afternoon-ish and yeah, I was just smiling from ear to ear after the call. Yeah, a good icebreaker from him then. Yeah, very good. To be fair, he's been incredible.

I think he's done it with most of the players. I think as soon as he got the job, he's been in contact with quite a majority of the players. How was that initial contact? Fine. He's a really easy-going guy, nice to speak to. He just sort of says the things like, he's been coming to watch everyone play games and stuff. And I feel like for him it was important to try and get that bond straight away with players because he's used to club football so he's used to spending time

every day with players so I felt like it was top from him really good. Honestly how how much of a disappointment was it last week when you weren't in the initial squad? Yeah obviously I was upset and yeah a little bit disappointed but at the same time you also have to look at the quality of players that England have at the minute and so obviously I took that into consideration but obviously when he told me I respected his decision and I said I said to him back like I feel like I've done enough to get the call up and considering the form level that we're in but obviously you're the manager,

you made the decisions and I respect that totally but then obviously Sunday I got the call so I was straight here. You were involved when he had his first get together, when he gathered you all together, tell us what you took away from that. He's really intense, that's the first thing I took away from it. We had our first training session yesterday and our first meeting after as well yesterday. And the staff members, him, really intense, really want to win, really want the best for the team. They want the most together team going into the tournament. And he spoke about how many training sessions we had until the World Cup starts.

And it was something like 24 training sessions. So when you look at it like that, there's not a lot of training sessions. So I feel like starting intense and starting the right way yesterday was the perfect way to get the camp going, you know, just to get his ideas involved and stuff like that. So we're really looking forward to see how the week goes. And was that opening address, was it a long address to you or was it short, sharp? Short, sharp. What was intense, you know, give us an idea.

Just the way he was delivering his things that he wanted. He was very intense. He was very sure he's very, it was almost like he knew he believed in what he wanted That's the sort of measures I got so I feel like it was nice for the players to see that side That aggression that intensity to show you that he's not here just for you know, just a jolly up He's here to to win You know, it was a year ago today this very day that nottingham forest would deducted the points

That dropped for us down into the relegation zone. That's a remarkable year isn't it? Yeah, when you put it like that it's a remarkable year yeah. Just to see where we've come from from this time last year is incredible and I think the Forest fans deserve that the most. You're in a great position for Champions League aren't you? If we'd said that to you on this day last year... Oh, I'd have snapped your hand off. You would have thought I was talking rubbish, surely?

Yeah, I thought you were talking rubbish. The funny thing is, we had that belief that we could... When we were in pre-season, we had the belief that we could do something this season. Did we think to this level? Probably not. But, no, obviously, I think we deserve to be in the situation that we could do something this season. Did we think to this level? Probably not, but obviously I think we deserve to be in the situation that we're in. We worked so hard day in day out to achieve these sort of goals and you know everyone's just in a good place at the minute. The morale is high, the vibe is very high and we're just excited to see where the

end of the season finishes. So Morgan Gibbs-White of Nottingham Forest talking with our correspondent John Murray and John is still with me here at St. George's Park in Burton. I've got to say when we do those interviews we just were in a little room all to ourselves and I was stood at the back of the interview because earlier in the day I spoke to Dean Henderson who we'll hear from later in the week on Five Life Sport and maybe the Five Life Football Daily but I want to say I really enjoyed listening to Morgan Gibbs White whether he's talking about England that point to prove or indeed the

remarkable turnaround that Forrest have witnessed in the last 12 months. Yeah really matured hasn't he I think I remember talking to him here at St George's Park well quite a few years ago now as an under-21 player and I mean he was I guess probably at the time a teenager but now you know he's a premier league captain as we discussed there and I think you know the discussion about whether he would be in this in this England squad I think when you bear in mind in that in that position that he plays for Nottingham Forest so effectively this season clearly you've got Jude Bellingham as one of your opponents if you want to put it in those terms. But also Phil Foden who I know hasn't been at his best but he's got a lot of England caps

and obviously Cole Palmer as well in that position. But with Palmer not in contention and it would be a surprise wouldn't it he hasn't even joined up with the squad he's still with Chelsea. Then you know his departure opened the door and I think that makes it quite clear that in Thomas Toucou's mind in that position he was as they say the next cab off the rank. And so commentary at Wembley on on Friday night against Albania and then we'll be back at Wembley again almost like a second home for the two of us isn't it on Monday evening for that second World Cup qualifier against Latvia. But talking of the World Cup, it's really going to come into, I mean,

24 training sessions between now and the World Cup starting. That all of a sudden brings it into sharp focus. Oh, without doubt. And I just think, you look at it now, with Gareth Southgate's England, there was never a defined end point to that even when we were at the final we knew that was probably the last match for Gareth Southgate as a matter but we didn't know for sure whereas with Thomas Tuchel you know there is this 18 month contract this time next year you know you will only have a matter of months left in

the job. There's a totally different feel to it from that point of view as much as anything else. Well, talking about the World Cup being in sharp focus, Kelly Cates will be kicking off our countdown to the 2026 World Cup. Destination New Jersey. That's on the next episode of the Football Daily. by Manchester City. Eight Premier League titles, six league cups, three FA Cups, one Champions League. And more than a hundred charges. Somebody turned up at the Etihad Stadium and effectively served papers.

I'm Clive Myrie and this is Football on Trial. The Manchester City charges. They believe they've got irrefutable evidence. Listen on BBC Sounds.