Football Daily - Can Arsenal go back-to-back?

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

Arsenal seek to defend their Premier League title, but just how difficult will a title defence be? Former Arsenal right back Carl Jenkinson, The Athletic's Amy Lawrence and fan Clive Palmer join Aaron Paul to discuss the chances of a second Premier League trophy for Mikel Arteta. They reflect on a big statement in Sunday's Community Shield against Manchester City and debate Arsenal's midfield options - is Odegaard back to his best, will Bruno Guimaraes fit in alongside Declan Rice? They discuss more of the club's new summer signings, including where Christos Tzolis fits and could there be any more business? In the absence of injured William Saliba, will Jarell Quansah or Ezri Konsa be playing at the Emirates this season? BBC Sport's Alex Howell updates on the latest. Plus, sports psychologist Dan Abrahams discusses the challenges of defending a Premier League title.Time Codes:01:55 - Reflections on last season 07:30 - Community Shield Win 18:10 - Martin Odegaard 29:30 - Sports Psychologist Dan Abrahams on defending a Premier League title 37:20 - Mikel Arteta on this season 44:55 - Alex Howell on defence and covering William Saliba

This is the Football Daily podcast with Aaron Paul. Time to talk Arsenal. They kick the Premier League season off against Coventry on Friday night. And come May of next year, Mikhail Arte's team will be hoping to relive this all over again. Martin Odikard receives the Premier League trophy. And this is it. 2004 to 2026. 22 years.

We have not seen this. An Arsenal captain. Air of South London on what is a brilliant day for half of North London. For the first time for 22 years, three years Premier League runners-up. John Murray with the commentary of Arsenal's trophy lift last season. So can the gunners go better and defend their league title? And can they finally get their hands on that elusive Champions League? Over the next hour or so, we'll discuss the state of the squad.

has been looking sharp in preseason, the signings the club have made and the gaps which still remain. We'll do it in the company of the athletics, Amy Lawrence, Arsenal fan and podcaster for the Arsenal Vision podcast, Clive Palmer. And the former Gunners fullback, Carl Jenkinson, Clive, I'll come to you first.

I can imagine you've spent the summer reliving last season and that day at Crystal Palace. It was a long time coming. Yeah, a long time coming. And not just that day, but a day after and the week after. And it just went on for the whole summer. You moved around London and seen everybody enjoying themselves.

22 years a long time, right? And I didn't realise it was that long. Amy, tell us about your journey, obviously, being a journalist as well, someone who's in the industry, what you've seen over the past 22 years. I don't know we've got long enough for that. It's been quite the ride, doesn't it? It's been quite the ride for the Arsenal. But, I mean, it all culminated in that win last season.

It felt like a cathartic experience for not just the football club, but the people of North London. The red half of North London. Well, probably a bit more than half. But I think that there was a sense of euphoria and elation. It's really, you know, listening to the commentary back there of John Murray, the moment that really sticks in my mind isn't actually that trophy lift. It was the previous Tuesday night when Mancity dropped points at Bournemouth

and Arsenal won the league in that moment. And living in North London, living around the corner from the stadium, was an experience to the like of which, I've never had in my several decades of living. You know, people just opened their doors and pulled out and there was this very spontaneous, organic explosion. It was very fever-picked, wasn't it? Yeah, it was.

And I think that's what really made it special. It's weird because people thought, oh, you know, does it feel different if you're not playing and you're not in the stadium? And there's an assumption that it's worse. And in a weird way, I almost thought it was better because all of Arsenalism was there. And when you're in the stadium,

It's only those who are lucky enough to get privileged enough to get tickets. And the sense of community and what this club means to an awful lot of people globally as well as locally who've chosen that club for a reason, I think. You saw every possible type of person that exists out there when Arsenal won the league. It was like a multicultural experience. It was a happening. And people identified with it. And yeah, that kind of all the years of pent up.

you know, having to try and defend your club when they're not quite up there. The second again, O'Le'OLEA stuff, was beginning to lose its sense of humour, really, I think, for people. It was enough. I think it was a very, very significant cultural, social moment,

as well as a footballing moment for Arsenal and for all who loved them. I mean, I covered it both after that Bournemouth game and, I mean, the parade and all the celebrations that ensued. And it was wild to see the streets of North London as packed as they were, people congregating just a pure element to celebration, people coming from far and wide to celebrate the Arsenal. One man who has been in that era, that 22 years,

you won a trophy, though, with the Gunners, the FA Cup back in 1314, is Carl Jankinson. Carl, great to have you on Five Live Sport with us. And just firstly, to sort of cap it all off, you announced your retirement this week as well from professional football. How do you look back on a career? Yeah, I mean, it's a strange time, I guess, when you sort of, I think you know for a little while in advance,

you're going to make that decision. But, yeah, I found it quite strange putting it out on Sunday and the feeling kind of that gave me. I felt my shoulders drop a little bit because I knew that I was going to do it for a while. And yeah, it was great. And then I got to watch the Arsenal go and win the Community Shield as well. So all around it was a great day. But, yeah, I'm excited for the next chapter of life

and what that's going to bring me. Football's been sort of my whole life, really, for 20-odd years. So, yeah, we'll see what's next. An England international, a Premier League, defender. You've played across the EFL as well. I mean, one thing I think that really sort of hit home, just looking at your announcement, and I sat and I probably took time to read it.

You get these sort of, like, you know, tiny little chunks of time during the day where you can sit and actually chew through something. But it was a message with a meaning. It was directed to the next generation, wasn't it? I mean, it must have taken you a bit of time. That was no AI bit of kit that you wrote there. That was something from the heart. Yeah, I just, I thought, you know, if I'm going to put something out,

it was actually my mate earlier in the week when I went up to see him in Scotland. He's at Celtic and he said, no, you've got to put something out. You got to, you know, he gave me the nudge to put a video together and stuff like that. And I thought, well, if I'm going to put something out, I want to, you know, I don't want to do the generic sort of, you know, post that some ex-football has do, which is fine, I wanted to try and put something together, maybe with a bit more value. And, yeah, it wasn't kind of planned. It was laying on the sofa and just sort of started freeway and see what comes to my mind.

And obviously that must have been a message that's kind of been inside me for a few years now as I've got older and become a senior player and sort of looked out for the younger players at the clubs that I've been at. And yeah, I sort of put that message together. And I'm glad I did because I've had some really nice feedback from, you know, parents and young lads and young lads who I played with who have said some nice things about my time with them and the influence that I had on them.

So I'm glad I did it, to be honest. And I spoke to your last manager, Andy Woodman, and when you picked up your injury, he was genuinely gutted. I think I saw him a couple of days later, and he was genuinely distraught about it. And it's testament to who you are. So congratulations on a fantastic career. You've lived the dream of so many hours.

there. Let's get to it though. Let's talk about the Arsenal and what you can expect this season. Where else to start though than Sunday's 3-0, Community Shield win over Manchester City? What a statement that that was. Who wants to go first, Amy? It's interesting because I don't think beforehand the concept of making a statement was particularly in people's minds. Certainly not mine. In fact, if you'd watch much of Arsenal's pre-season, I'd say most people were maybe a little bit concerned at the readiness sort of physically to kind of hit the traditional curtain razor to the season. And, you know, there are a number of players who were involved on the day who hadn't played any football at all.

Obviously, they do their training behind closed doors. And Carl, I'd be fascinated to know from you. We set a lot of store as outside observers of what we see of players during the 90 minutes of a game. Oh, you know, they've managed half an hour of football, or they came on for this long, or they did this or that. We're not seeing what everyone does in the whole rest of the week. So is there a lot that they're doing behind the scenes to work on that fitness, obviously, that we can't see?

Because we judge it on games and like, oh, they can't possibly really. He's not played yet. And then, of course, on clubs, Declam Rice, on come, Saka. They get the first minutes of preseason. But in terms of going back to your statement observation, it felt like they played with the swagger and authority of people who know their champions rather than people that are still trying to wrestle with this ogre, of an opponent that trying to overcome over the last previous years in Manchester City has been

such a big thing, feeling like if you drop a point ever, there's a sense of the walls closing in. But now you can relax, you can feel like you know who you are, you're champions of England. You deserve to be playing with that strut, that confidence, and they made it into a game that city couldn't cope with. And they weren't, didn't look ready for it. they didn't look ready. I think this is a really important moment actually because towards the end of the last season it felt like we were trying to defend something.

We hadn't won. And we were playing maybe a brand of football where we were scored ball watching a little bit. And it was very, very tense. Very awful person listening right now. You know what I mean? It was very, very tense. Every game felt like a really tight margin.

And I've been really interested to see how Mikhail's going to re-invigorate a group of people that have reached a mountain top. How's it going to do that? And I think from the message in the first, first 30 seconds of that game, they're not trying to defend something, they're trying to attack and win something again. I think that's a different mindset. And there's different ways to approach when you've reached about in top. Do you want to look at train session by train

session, or do you set a new mission statement to say, we want to achieve something that's never been done before, and like defend it back to back apart from in the 30s? There's new mission statements which are broader and there's maybe the iterative ones on a training by training basis and the first 30 seconds told me everything everybody free running running through lines might not a guard running past the centre forward hasn't happened for a long time soon as you see that you know new messages going in and we're here to show a new side of ourselves i thought it's brilliant it was a swarm car i mean that first i think you're bang on clive sitting there watching it you're like wow this is this is incredible and i think for the first few minutes of a game

especially with something like the community shield after a world cup after an exhausting season where where you're challenging and you're chasing neck and neck. You wonder how the players are going to settle back into it, where are you going to go shape-wise, the intensity. But man, I think you're bang on with that point, Clive. It was as if to say we are, this is us now, this is who we are, we're the champions, we've come to play, you're playing us. It was a swagger, and I think swagger is the right word, Amy.

What did you make of it, Carl? Yeah, I think what I loved about the performance yesterday was, you know, when we went one-nil up, I think sometimes last year the handbrake would come on, and it will be a case of defending that. And certainly on some occasion, not really going to try and get that second goal, you know, and you could feel that that handbrake was on at times.

Yesterday, it seemed to see a completely different performance. And, you know, it was a case of scored. The first goal, right, we're going to go again, and we're going to go again. And I think, you know, you don't want to read too much into a community shield game, because obviously it's not got the same pressure

as maybe an FA Cup or whatever, and teams will play a little bit freer. But I did think there were some real positives there, and a few friends reached out to me, and they said, you know, I think we're going to be different this year. I think we're going to be more attacking, and we're going to have a bit more of a free-flowing style. You can see it, the weight off the boy's shoulders and that. So with a bit of luck, we see plenty more of that going into the season, because it was a really impressive win yesterday.

Individually, though, there were some phenomenal performances. And I want to hone in on Mars Lewis Skelly, because the ball in for Califiori was delicious. It was sumptuous. Call it what you want. But it was pinpoint. And for Califuri to set the marker down inside 30 seconds was incredible. But how am I still reading about this young man potentially moving to a Premier League? Gua, Amy, you're taking a big, big, deep breath in.

Yeah, I have to maybe choose my words carefully. I'm struggling to make any logical sense out of any of this. And I just think there's a business side of football and we're not always party to all of those. decisions. And there's an emotional side of football, which is obviously where the majority of fans kind of lean into how they feel about a player or what's going on in transfer market. But just from a pure footballing point of view, putting aside all of those things, I can't see any sense. This is not a good football decision. You know, this is a player who has that added extra of being Hayland, locally produced, locally born, grew up three or four miles from

the stadium, Arsenal supporter all his life. That all means something. But what means more is the quality of this boy as a footballer and as a character and as a personality. And in all of those things, he scores so highly. And if he wasn't an Arsenal player, he's a sort of player, I'd think they should try and get hold off at the age of 19. So the fact that they have him and that he is so very connected, so symbolic, it's difficult to comprehend that even if there are financial imperatives behind the scene and they've got to balance books and this, that and the for me there has to be a different way and that I would regard it as almost

something where it's the last of last resorts and what I think is also important is this player does not want to leave Arsenal Football Club he has had absolutely nothing to do with any pushing of any ideas or anything like that he's just come back from his holidays having had a phenomenal end to the season having come back into the team after a while out

and showed himself in midfield rather than as a left back where he started out playing most predominantly in the first team and he breathed some new life into that team and some new character at the end of the season when they really needed it and played in a championship final against the best midfield in the world you would argue in Paris Saint-Roman currently

and was terrific. It's a madness and I hope that the embers of this strange fire die down extremely quickly and he's very much a part of the. things going forward. Clive, we know about him as a footballer, but does it mean just that little bit more because he's a HALM boy?

It does. And I think one of the things has happened on speaking to Carl before we came in here and I said, you know, I've been supporting Arsenal many decades, but the last three or four years has been my favourite. And the reason why there's been a real connection

between the club, the fans and the players, been a real connection running through the club. And that's why you get 1.2 million people on the street today after you lose the champion league final. because of that connection. And Miles is part of that connection. And he definitely represents a lot of people.

And when I was growing up, people at Patrick Riera and Paul Davis and Liam Wright, they had a similar type feeling and a similar type impact on many, many people. And I do feel this one does hurt a little bit. We're not kids, right? Things have to happen in life and in business. But for this kid, I do feel he's already had to show massive character.

He got into the team really well as a left back. but then came out of the team. He even played for England and suddenly you're not even playing for Arsenal. And to have that dip and then come back as Amy is saying for the Champions League Final and play against the best team in the world

and look totally at home and then come out again in the preseason and then come into Community Shield and play really, really well. He's showing you everything that a professional footballer needs. We all think we can do that job but you need to have a special mentality

and he has that and I just hope it all works out. Carl, you arrived at Arsenal at the age Miles Lowe's. Skelly is that now. You were 19 years old. It's a different organisation. It's an organisation that's in 2026 and very much a 21st century football club. But what would your advice be to him right now? What would you say to Miles Lewis Skelly who's playing for the Arsenal, who's doing what he's doing? I mean, do you know what? Just when you said that, it made me think about how he already is as a character at 19 years of age

because, you know, I put my video out when I retired yesterday and you can see me talking about when I'm signing for the club and, you know, I'm a young lad and I speak like a young lad, you know, and I speak like a 19-year-old. You can tell my old to his skelly's way beyond his years

and he's got a fearlessness that I really admire for someone at such a young age. And I think Clive made a really good point there regarding last evening, He had a dip in form where he wasn't, you know, when he first come in, he was done tremendously and he got himself in the England squad. And he struggled a bit of times at left back last year. And to show that character again at his sort of age, to come back from that, to go again,

what I will say is was always a central midfielder, wasn't he? So in some ways at 19 years of age, he's playing out a position. So maybe some of them struggles last season are absolutely understandable. But since he stepped into midfield, I think. I think he looks fantastic. He's got everything. You touched on the pass there that he played through to Califiori. It's just a vision to see it number one

and to two to execute it with a perfect weight of pass. Fantastic, yeah. So my advice to him would be just keep doing what you do, him, Miles, because he's absolutely flying and as an Arsenal fan, I'm thrilled for him. Let's focus on the midfield. Martin Odegaard scored Arsenal's third and putting a player the match performance on Sunday.

Here's what his manager, Mikhail Arteta, I had to say about him afterwards. He missed five or six months for different things and it was extremely difficult for him to get any momentum. So I'm sure this year we can maintain him fit available with the players around him. We're going to see a very different Martin. And I sense from the first day that he joined

that he has something else on the belly that he wants to prove and show because the team needs it as well. Mikhail Arteeta talking about his captain Martin Odegaard there. Ophel is Desire. asking who was to come in on that goal because, I mean, I ran out of superlatives watching it was. That was sublime. You must have seen some good football all over the years.

Some of the players, you've watched the Arsenal, you think of Rocky, of Henri, of right, whoever it is, Bergkamp. That was nonchalant. Yeah, it's interesting watching his body language change over preseason. I mean, you've seen the games. He's a different person. He looks so much happier. He's bouncing around the pitch. He's running.

He's winning collisions. he's just a complete transformation and that goes to show you you another reason what you do in a dressing room you make it uncomfortable and maybe X in midfield has come in has made everybody jump around a little bit more but that goal was just beautiful

sort of playground goal at school wasn't it the sort of thing you do that no one sees or in training but he's done it on the biggest stage with many thousands in the building and at the man's city end and rolls away and he's sit the keeper down and this keeper's not bad right

so yeah I to see him come back I don't think people are ready for this actually because we almost won the league last year without Havert, Saka and Olegard been in any sort of form, health or fitness and we're able to win the league and now they're all back in the room

and looking fit, I think it's going to be a different hassle this season. I mean, he is your captain but it's amazing to think and Carl, come to you on this, it's amazing to think this is someone who at 14, 15 years old was touted as like a child prodigy I remember reading about him in the papers

and then watching him go towards Real Madrid but he's had to grow up and I say grow up fast. It feels like it's only now. He's become Martin Odegaard and he's really sort of grown in to who he is, matured and really carved out an identity as a player and that showed it on Sunday.

It was him back to his very best. He really looked classed, didn't he? Yeah, I mean, can you just honestly? side note. Can you imagine signing for a club like Real Madrid at 14 years of age, what that, you know, the pressure and the eyes on you at that young age in your development as a human, let alone a footballer? So, yeah, he's had to go through that. And obviously, he's probably just developed at his natural rate. I think everyone's always seen he's a really good football even when he had his loans from Real Madrid. The other thing I would just say about Odegaard is,

last season he did have quite a few injuries. And I think people can underestimate how important being in a rhythm of games is. If you're having these niggles here and there and they're keeping you out for a game or two or three or four weeks at a time, then you're coming back and you're throwing in and you're expected to be at your level. Very, very, very difficult.

With Odegaard, I really hope he can maintain his fitness this year and he can just get a consistent run of games in because when he does, he shows his quality, doesn't he? I just want to link in, Amy, the new signing Bruno Gimerich, who was a proper enforcer the other day. but what does his introduction into the Arsenal team mean for Odegaard? Does it offer him the opportunity to push forward a bit more, to be a bit more creative, to be a bit more selfish in what he does,

to take a bit more thought in what he does? It's a really interesting question, and I think we'll have to watch those relationships develop over a bit more of a time frame. But I don't think Oedegard's performances or how he expresses himself on the pitch has that much to do with others. It's more about himself. He's sometimes fine with those special players, with those sort of perfectionist type players, that they have to be so fine-tuned.

And if something's just a bit off, it doesn't work. And I was just thinking about, a few years ago, I went to his hometown, which is a tiny little place outside Oslo called Draman. I mean, like a village almost, really small. And I remember thinking this little shy kid, and when he used to go to his father was a footballer and play for the local club. And his dad used to bring him down to when he went training and leave him with some of the older boys and he would not say a word and have a little pack lunch and do his play football all day long

and then get picked up and go home. And he was quite known for being quite quiet. And at the time I was there, he was sort of just recently made, I think, the captain of Norway and would also be made captain of Arsenal. And there was quite a lot of surprise. It's a small town. Everyone knows each other. And people were like, Little Martin, like, you know, he never really felt like captain material. And I wonder if you look at him now, the man who's picked up the championship trophy as a captain. And maybe that weighed a bit heavy in previous years. You know, I'm the guy who's responsible. I'm the captain here. And he's, he leads in his own way. He's, he's a very good listener and talker. And I think that all the guys around the dressing room have very good

interpersonal relationships with him. But he's not a screamer and a shouter kind of, probably Bruno Gimaraes, she's going to be doing a bit more that type of leading or Rice does. But he leads by, you know, in his own sort of quite understated, but very important and pointed way

that he says things to people and they do really listen and admire him. But I think that he feels differently now as a leader of the team and that will manifest itself in the way he feels free to express himself and play football.

Clive, when you look at additions, Bruno Gimerich is fabulous, isn't it? When he comes with the Premier League pedigree, with the quality and with the attributes that Miquel Artetta wants to add to this team. Yeah, I think this signing is so interesting because the end of last season, obviously we've won, and we're dancing around the streets and enjoying ourselves.

And I wasn't thinking at that time needed a little bit of leadership and example setting, because I thought we had enough. But actually, to have a bit more on-ball personality is no bad thing. For those in Budapest you can see that we couldn't control the game couldn't control the ball you need people with big personalities

that can help you do that. I think he's going to set examples with his energy and his passion for the game. He's like the manager, right? Look at the manager. If you ever met him and looked him in the eyes, you'll know that he's a serious man when it comes to football

and Brina looks very similar and he's got a real presence and wisdom on the pitch. When he goes into collisions, he wins those collisions, he understands how to buy a foul, win the referee, negotiate his way through a game, He just understands.

I call him an upper tier passer, right? So when you're sitting in the upper tier, you can see all the passes at the Emirates. You can see them all, can't you? But then he can see them all. And I'm thinking, well, you're down in the tulips, right? You're down in the mixer in there,

but you can see all the passes. And I love that about him. He just sees it and he does it. And if it doesn't work out, his reaction is really, really good. So I'm really interested to see how this midfield coexist of each other. And I know a lot of people like to pick their favorite midfields,

but there's going to be lots of different configurations. and I'm so interested to see what we end up doing. Surely Declan Rice is the winner out of this because he looked exhausted in the summer. I mean, it's been a long season. He's all action as well. He never leaves less than 100% on the pitch, and he's such a phenomenal competitor.

But if you're Declan Rice now, you're looking thinking, right, there's someone who can match my quality who's not just going to be a competition, but we can coexist here really well, got. Yeah, and I also think he, you know, I think that's a, maybe Mikkel's looking ahead

with that because I believe Declan Rice played 69 games last year for club and country. It's a lot of football. You can't be going out and doing that every season because you'll eventually break down. And Mikkel is now going to have that luxury of rotating a little bit more than maybe he did last year. Because let's be honest, when Declan Rice was fit last year, he played and understandably, understandably so he's one of our best players. But every player has a breaking point as such, and they can only play so many games. so I think a big win on that front is actually for Declan Weiss

is going to get a bit of respite at different periods in the season. On Gimerides himself, I think is what Clive touched on there about being a leader. I think you only have to look at his record at Newcastle when he didn't play. I think he's missed 10 Premier League games for them. I don't think they won one. And I think when he played it was, you know, one in two or a little bit more.

I think it was that they would go on and win. So, and that's not all just because he's a cracking footballer, that shows to me that he can get the best out of people around him as well. Clive made a really interesting point about, you know, sort of looking into Mikhail Artei's eyes and understanding what he wants from a player. He was a joy to watch. I mean, I'd say I really enjoyed watching him as a competitor.

You played with him. You shared a dressing room with this man. Do you look at that midfield and go, yeah, that's a signature, Mikhail Arte de that is crafted by him. I think with Mikkel, you can tell, he has that fire in his eye himself, doesn't he? You know, I think of

his interview after the Bournemouth game last year. He said, I am fire, you know? So he always has that fire in his eye, and I think he loves players like that. You can tell, and he used to play like that, you know, he was fully committed. Very skillful on the ball as well in terms

of his passing, his weight a pass, his range of passing. So, yeah, I think all managers like to bring in, maybe bringing players that they can kind of see themselves in. And I think Gimarias is that type, and he's going to be a warrior for Arsenal. He says it himself, that's what he calls himself, and you can see it already. But he can also pick a pass.

I know you touched on it before. I mean, I watched the Como game in preseason. Some of the passes that he can play through, breaking lines. You know, he's not just, he's a lot, lot more than just the football he breaks up playing. sticks a foot and he looks like he's got a lot of quality on the ball. Five-lides sports. So here's the first ball of this series.

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You're listening to the Football Daily podcast with Aaron Paul. Now, sports psychologist Dan Abrams has worked with elite athletes from England rugby to the Premier League and also worked alongside Arna Slot at Firenord the year they won the Dutch era to visit title in 2023. The following season, they finished second behind PSV-Iendhoven. And I spoke to Dan about the psychological challenges that come with defending a league title. At Firenord, we created some very simple terms that we could anchor ourselves to in the 2022-23 season. HPM high-performance mindset. Every single player had their own unique high-performance mindset.

They knew what they had to do to find their high-performance mindset as individuals and as teammates. And we really benefited from that throughout the 22-23 season going on to win the Dutch Everdivisi title. And it's always challenging to follow that up. You know, complacency can set in. Teams are always bringing new faces. And opposing teams bring in better players and have new ideas. And so it was always challenging that following season. As you say, we finished second.

Now, we did win the Dutch Cup, so we did have some success. But we just really carried on reinforcing the importance of players competing in their high performance mindset, updating the mental models that they had. And we finished second. We got into the Champions League. We won that Dutch Cup. But no doubt PSV were better than us that season. So did we fail?

Did we succeed? It's in the eye of the beholder. When does the prep begin for the next season? And effectively trying to build on what you've done, but also shifting the mentality from a, we are going to be the chasers who are going to try and, you know, lift this title to, hey, we've got a target in our backs now. you're really doing it straight away coaches are back in bringing the right players in working with

their scouts working to bolster the squad and then from day one you want players hitting the ground running there's all kinds of different messages you know is it that we've never defended the title so we're going to set that as an objective or is it that you know we're just going to continue the processes that we've done really well in the last season you're always trying to create mini stories and many objectives in the minds of the players when they come back for preseason. For us, I remember at Fire Nord, it was just, let's hit the ground running again. Let's have great leadership. Let's have great teamwork.

Let's be even better than we were last season. And let's make sure no complacency kicks in. Because I think that word complacency is so pertinent here. You know, it takes a lot of energy. It's metabolically costly across the organization to win championships. hard to do, right? You've got to be on it every single day. And even taking a few weeks off, players can come in, they're still a little bit fatigued, they're still a bit tired, they're still blurry-eyed, if you like, and that's where you've got to be on them as coaching staff,

and you've got to make sure senior players, leaders are on it. And the energy starts again, essentially. And how easy will it be for them to, I use the term so often, you know, go from being the chaser to the chaste, having that target. on their back and trying to emulate that success whilst also going one further in the European Cup. I think it depends on what messages

Mikhail Atessa used last season to help them win. I mean, were they using the messages of, you know, we haven't won this for X amount of years? Was it since the invincibles in 03, 0,04, something like that? You'd know better than me.

You know, what messaging was Mikhailateta using? Can he use the same messaging? he will likely vary it up. Ultimately, my straightforward answer to you is not easy at all. It will be stunningly difficult. It is difficult. These are complex environments filled with people striving to do the very best that they can do, but they're human beings with different needs, wants, hopes, doubts, belief, expectations.

All of them want to be playing, and some of them will be disappointed. Some of them would have spent a lot of energy, as I said, metabolic cost, driving things last season, striving to win that Premier League title last season. And it does. It is easy to have a hangover because it can be so exhausting to do that. We will see what happened. They've already started one of the Community Shield. So we'll see.

So very, very difficult, very, very possible. Mikhala Tissu and his coaches will strive to get the messaging ride alongside his senior players. He still has to drive those behavioral norms, standards, the leadership, the minds, the mindset the teamwork. He continues to chip away at that. Why not? Sports psychologist Dan Abraham's there. Still with us though, the athletics, Amy Lawrence, Arsenal fan and podcaster, Clive Palmer and former Gunners fullback, Carl Jenkinson. The word complacency came up a few times, Amy. I mean, having seen the squad over preseason, but also knowing the nature of the beast that is Mikhail Arteta, his mindset, how he works,

you think that's the last thing these players would be feeling and I think Sunday showed it as well. Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of people quite often throw around the world word complacency in football and I don't buy it all that often truthfully. I think people are generally trying their best and they can be different things that are affecting performances. I'd be more interested in what he was saying about how you recreate that hunger when you push yourself to the absolute.

limit. I mean, when you remember the enormity of the stress they put themselves under for basically 10 months physically, psychologically, every single week, it was on a knife edge. It was absolutely so intense. And I do think there's a natural reaction to that. And I don't think it's complacency. I think it's much more of the hangover that I would have been concerned about. But it really linked in for me with, this is exactly why Bruno's been bought. This is exactly why they went for Vinny. How do you change the dynamic in that dressing room? You know, if you basically ask people to climb to the top of the mountain, they do it.

And then you have a little holiday and say, right, you're at the bottom of mountain again. Let's climb the mountain again. That's really, really tough stuff. You've got to change it up. He's been mocked and ridiculed by supporters of other sides, Clive. I mean, some people were labelling him sort of Brentesque at points last season because of his antics. You think about that the speakers on the training pitch. pre-Liverable

boosting out you never walk alone and the drawings and even sort of of you know the documentary which really highlighted what he's like

as a character but getting over that line and over that sort of you know that speed bump in the road of lifting the Premier League title will it have charged him up again and sort of you know

open up another dimension or do you think it would have taken the pressure just a little bit off the players and off Artetta with everything that's done he's done in the past Yeah, I definitely think the pressure will be off slightly, but at Arsenal, they have this very much of a family environment amongst the players. And they create this protective state around the team.

And within that environment, they do what they do to motivate each other. And I think if I was looking at Arsenal and saying, one, if they can defend it, one of they can do this, well, actually, the way he would dress it up, he's saying, look at the opportunity we have. I think he would dress it up that way. We have the opportunity to do something special. We have the opportunity as a group of men together to do something else. let's not think we have achieved it we can achieve more

and do something for example if anyone calls me a deluded arsul fan there's one trophy out there we've never won in our history that we got very close to winning last year and it's quite easy to motivate a group of men to go and do that because that would make you immortal amongst arsul fans if you do that I think that's so important to set new goals

and I don't see this an issue for him he is very much somebody that really invested in leadership people leadership and improving people and developing people. I am not concerned at all about this. We'll talk about the Champions League in a moment or so. Let's hear from Mikhail Artete. He's been speaking to Dan Rohn

about the football club's ambitions going into the new season this time as defending champions. Only three Premier League managers have ever retained the title. How confident to you of becoming just the fourth? Well, we've got an opportunity to do something that we haven't done

in this football club. So that's the ambition, that's the desire, and that's the direction that we're going to taking in everything that we do. Does it require something of a psychological shift for the players who have now achieved what the club wanted to achieve for so long? You're in a different position now. You're the target for other clubs.

I think we want to experience again the feeling of becoming champions and go through those motions and now it's like building a beast inside you that you want to go through that again and you know what it's going to take. You feel that you are capable of doing it and we just have to be. so resilient every single day, so committed and showing the desire that we have to achieve it. You spoke, I think, at the end of last season about being ambitious again this summer. Are you satisfied with the transfer business the club has been able to do? I'm very satisfied with the ambition that we are showing to go to the next level in everything that we're doing at the football club.

From the changes that we do in the stadium, so the connection we're generating with our people, what we're doing in the training ground, what we're doing with the squad, with the staff. And then some things can be done and some others are not in your hand. But certain ambition is there and especially what we put in the emphasis is with the people that we have internally to make them better and to make them feel valued and important. What do success look like for you this season? Retaining the title and winning the Champions League, is that your target? Ultimately the goal, we all know that it is to win major trophies as many as we possibly can.

what we have to do is make sure that we click the fire every day to play and the staff to behave in that manner. The ambition is there, Amy, for Mikhail Artetta. I mean, the European Cup, it's been so close on a couple of occasions now. How do they realign? And does the sort of balance now shift towards the Champions League in terms of the ambition, the motivation? He's an ambition beast. He's an ambition monster. I don't think he differentiates.

I think he'll want it all. That doesn't mean he's going to get it. And, you know, the competition is as ferocious as ever, maybe more so. And I think that's where he made it clear in Budapest, like 15 minutes after that feeling of being so close and losing that final. And he sat there in the press conference and spoke about how immediately he was thinking about what needs to be better to be able to compete more to be able to get over that line. And he knows there needs to be different ingredients. He needs a few more tools in the toolbox to be able to take it to a team like Paris

Azamara final. And as things stand, it doesn't look like the club have, they've tried to do that kind of business, but they haven't got it over the line yet. So we wait and see. Are you hinting towards Finnisius Jr.? Well, that was a pretty clear statement of intent as to this is what we're, we think takes us closer towards that level of promised land. It was about as ambitious a transfer target as I think Arsenal have ever had.

And I remember when they signed Dennis Bergkamp, and that felt like, you know, a miracle was happening because it was wild to be buying a player of that kind of world-class and established global star at that time. and Vinny was probably the one that actually even surpasses that level of ambition given the way football has changed since then. But there wasn't an obvious plan B. You know, you always think when they're going into a transfer window,

you've got your main set of targets and then you've got your next lot. But it's clearly the pool of players when you're in the Arsenal's level where you've been a penalty kicks away from winning a Champions League and you've won the league, the pool of players that can improve you as small. I mean, Clive, when you look back at the past six, seven years, and the evolution of the transfer strategy. I look back to the Raul Senile days and the players that your face was brilliant.

The players you're bringing in then to the players you're after now and how it's evolved through Edu Andrea Bertha as well. With hindsight, do you feel maybe a little bit used by Venetius Jr., a little bit played? It depends.

I mean, from the outside now, people saying, yes, you will use. But actually, there seems to be a real club commitment to make that deal happen. and when you start to do the numbers in your own mind and you realize the potential of a commercial explosion around the signing like that, the numbers would have worked. So in the end, he chose to stay, and that's his right,

and he got extra money for Madrid, who didn't move for 18 months on a contract until the house will knock the door. And so from the outside in, you can say we got played. To me, it was a message to say what we're trying to be. So what are we trying to be? You want to be the best team in Europe. That makes you probably the number one club team in the world.

If you set that ambition, you have to act like it. And they tried. And I think if you don't shoot, you don't score, right? So for me, that was a brave move. Now we've got two weeks to get the next things right. And every single club fan loves to see their club bringing new players, etc. And so we've got a couple of bits to do, one in defence and maybe one in attack,

and there's time to do it. And how we go about that's important, but there's still time. Carl, just looking at sort of, you know, and talking ambition, just leaning back on that. Martin Odegaard, after Sunday's win over Manchester City came out and said, there are a few others we want to win. The Champions League is a big one. We want to win everything, though, and that's the mindset.

As a player in that squad, how important is it for you that the captain has gone out publicly and put down a marker? We're here. We want to win. This is our ambition. Bang. Yeah, I mean, I think that comes from a manager as well, doesn't it? I mean, he wants to win everything, then he.

That's all he talks about. He's so ambitious. And, you know, Martin's his sort of mouthpiece within the changing room. and sometimes out to the rest of the club as well. And it's a good message to put out there. And it's a realistic one, you know. We came so close last year, so, so close. But I will say I don't want to get too carried away with the main focus being on the Champions League.

And the reason I say that is because I kind of don't want us to get ahead of ourselves in the sense. The Champions League is such a hard tournament to win. You know, I think the Premier League is such an achievement in itself, but it's over a prolonged period of games, and generally the team who is the best over that period of game goes and wins here. Champions League is a different kettle of fish. You can go out on penalties, you know, you've got some real elite-level teams from all over Europe.

Like, there's so many different things that can affect the outcome of that. And, you know, that's not me sort of making excuses that we didn't win it last year. Of course, PSG were fantastic. but my point is it's a very hard tournament to win. So I don't want to sort of as a fan base, having that as our sole focus. We had such an amazing season last year. Let's enjoy that.

And of course, go for everything, like the manager and captain have said. But one step at a time, I guess. Clive mentioned recruitment. Loads of talk about Arsenal's defence this season, the availability of William Saliba, and whether they'll look to reinforce further in the window. Let's bring in BBC Sports,

reporter Alex Howell. Alex, good evening. There's been reports in the papers over the past few days in interest in Ezri, Konza and Jarrell Kwanza. Anything concrete in those rumours? Yeah, that's right. Arsenal have looked at both of those players. They're looking to bring in a defender that can play at centreback and also right back as well. And Konser and Kwanza both fit that profile. Konsa, obviously, more senior, more experienced and proved it at the World Cup with England, but a difference in valuation where Arsenal and Aston Villa valuing him more closer to the 60 million pound mark, which is obviously a high figure for a 28-year-old centreback. And the same Jarrell Kwanza talks there with his camp rather than that famous

club to club at the moment, but he's definitely on the list. Where are we with attacking options as well? Obviously, the Vinicius Junior deal broke down quite early on. There's been rumours of Bradley Barkler. anyone else in the mix. And do you think Arsenal are going to potentially look to strengthen maybe someone who can play either side or is it going to be an out and out forward? As Amos saying, they're looking for that player that can level them up. And if you're looking for a player that's going to improve the Premier League champions and the sides that reached the Champions League final, there's a small group of players that can do that. Bradley Barkler is on the list. But again, with those players, Arsenal aren't the only interested team in him.

Liverpool were also looking at him. And there's been a long-stander. an interest in Julian Alvarez as well. So I wouldn't rule out a left winger or a striker. Those are both options, but you're looking at a very small group of players that could come in and give the effect that Arsenal are looking for. You have Gabrielle Martinelli, who wasn't in the squad on Sunday in the Community Shield. And then if you're spending a big amount of money, you have to be a player that is going at least lift the squad above what he can offer.

And he's been a very solid option for Arsenal over these past few years. Alex, thank you so much. Alex, Hal, BBC Sports Arsenal reporter there with us. Carl, just looking at the options at the back. There are still cover places available. There's players in there that can do jobs. You look at Mosquera, a Ben Wyatt, a Hincapier. They're players that can play multiple positions.

Are you worried, though, about this situation with William Saliba? And I asked because Mikhail Artetta, head of the community shield said, as we know, it's more of a long-term injury. How concerned are you with that? Yeah, I think the main concern with that one is that it's a back injury. And I think whenever you hear back, you're always concerned. Because obviously it plays a big part in being physically able. And yeah, I am a little bit worried.

And you only had to see the moment that he went down. In the France game, you can almost see he was saying, that's enough kind of thing. And I got the impression from what people were saying, he was carrying that for a while. So don't know the ins and outs of the details, but obviously you hope that it's not something too bad. at the end of the day

it's an integral part of the team and I think the partnership him and Gabrielle formed last year was just incredible and it was a big part and foundation of the success Arsenal ad so someone's going to have to step in

I've always liked Mosquera it's funny when you talk about depth I mean it's almost like these clubs generally in the Premier League they want depth upon depth upon depth these days you know they want so much cover in different positions

everyone wants to play back exactly so then you've got to be able to manage that as well and manage these egos and these top players who want to be playing every week. So, of course, there's an argument to bring in a centre-off because of what's happened to Saliba, but you're right.

There are some top players who can step in already in that squad. I mean, it's debilitating. I remember Rio Ferdinand talking about, sort of, you know, struggling with his back, and he struggled quite early on with his back in the mid-2000s and coming on and being able to move and walk, and it's a struggle.

Is it potentially time, Arsenal, look for a long, long-term solution to this. Do they give it time? And is there a ready-made replacement in someone like a Hinkapier available, Amy? I'd say the long-term replacement might be Marley Salmon, who's a very young boy of 16, nearly 17, but has phenomenal ability and composure already.

That time was the other day was unbelievable. But expecting him to come into Premier League Hurley-Burley right away, that wouldn't be fair. I don't think. So there is this sort of like gap. There's a, as a hiatus, if you like, between where Arsenal are now and when someone like Marley Samen might be ready for that promotion.

So, but the complication is, what kind of person are you bringing in? Because if Siliber is going to come back in three or four months and be tickety-boo, are you then going to have a bit of a surfeit of players and then you find you probably not because there's an awful lot of football to be played? But finding a, you know, William Saliba's don't grow on trees,

so it's just not straightforward to replace him that easily, I wouldn't have thought. Yeah, they're carrying a risk on that side, right? Because it's not just about Saliba, it's about urine timber as well. He's had a gorean injury, and he'd come out of the World Cup, didn't make that. He wasn't able to start the Champions League final, and if he did, who knows what could have happened. And then you've got Ben White, who had an injury towards the end of last season. He's already playing with a strap on his knee,

and he's somebody that doesn't mind a collision so that could happen at any moment with him because he is a warrior and so you're carrying a risk with three right footers on that side injury-wise and you're putting mascara into a really tough position of playing every three days and I just feel you've got to de-risk that

by bringing somebody in and when people come back I think there's a mentality change in the dressing room now you're seeing it with Califura and Hincappy they're like best mates almost but they're competing for the same position and I think people

realizing you can't play 68 games any longer. If you want to have a, it's like buying a high mileage car, right? If you want a long career, you've got to reduce your minutes, right? You've got to reduce your minutes. Everyone's looking at Bruno Gimerich for example and thinking, well, he's 28, 29, blah, blah, blah. Well, he's paid six hours and less minutes than Declan Rice.

The Declan Rice has got a higher mileage on his car than he has, right? So... Yeah, but as a petrolod, I'll say Declan Rice is that he's diesel. He's a six-cylinder diesel engine. He's got an engine. He's tuned it up nicely, isn't he? He's still looking good.

But we have to be wary of this, right? When you're trying to protect careers and make people have long careers, you've got to look at that. Let's get some season predictions. It's hard not to be optimistic, especially when you watch that on Sunday. Where do we see Arsenal finishing this season in the league?

I'm going to go with caution here just because I've seen Arsenal win the league quite a few times over various decades in my life and they've not defended it yet that I've seen. So you always think they can because you look at the person that's just won the league and they look the best, which is why they always favourites the next year.

But I think it's a tough ask. Yeah, it's a league of change, but I'm going in two-footed, mate. I think we're going to be fine. Honestly, I do think we're going to be fine. I think because we have our principal baked and we saw them at a weekend. They're baked, we're connected, we're compact,

and we can control games on the ball or off the ball. I'm pretty confident, but if that bloats leave it was fit, I'd be even more. confident. Carl champions again, Olae?

Look, I think we, one thing that we have that a lot of the other top clubs don't have is that stability

and I think you saw in the community shield how powerful that is when you compare our performance to Manchester

series. So yeah, I'm going to back us to go and do it again. And what a happy man

Holt be at the end of next season if we do it. European success, yes or no, do Arsenal

win that covered a European Cup, Amy? Right now I still think they're missing the magic moments a little bit. Carl's sewed me up so I'm going to hold on that one. Semifinals are the best. No, I think I'm with Amy there.

I think we need a little bit more in one or two areas. So we'll see. That is all. We have time for on Arsenal. Thank you to the brilliant Amy Lawrence from the athletic, Clive Palmer, who's an Arsenal fan and podcaster and Carl really wishing you were in retirement. Hopefully see you again soon. Thank you very much.

You're brilliant. Thank you so much. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league. This is Five Live Sports. It's all eight of the lights and foot in a floor. To bowl him. It's not to stop out. Everyone standing around the 18th green.

Overhead come. He serves to the centre. And they will do it. Oh, the right champion. Five Live Sports. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. Let's see. Listen.

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