Football Daily - Champions League Debrief: Brilliant away wins for Arsenal and Aston Villa

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Arsenal and Aston Villa both achieved great victories away from home in the first legs of their last-16 ties in the Champions League.Mikel Arteta's side thumped PSV Eindhoven 7-1, while Villa beat Club Brugge 3-1 in Belgium.Kelly Cates presents reaction to both games, with Senior Football Reporter Ian Dennis alongside Chris Sutton at the Philips Stadion.Former England midfielder Andros Townsend also joins to provide his insight, before the podcast concludes by looking ahead to Wednesday night's 5Live commentary game between Paris Saint-Germain and Liverpool in the French capital.TIMECODES:00:40 - PSV 1-7 Arsenal 15:55 - Club Brugge 1-3 Aston Villa 20:15 - PSG v LiverpoolBBC Sounds / 5 Live Premier League commentaries this week:Wed 5 Mar - 20:00 - Paris Saint-Germain v Liverpool in the UEFA Champions League on 5Live Thu 6 Mar - 17:30 - Real Sociedad v Manchester United in the UEFA Europa League on 5Live Sat 8 Mar - 15:00 - Liverpool v Southampton in the Premier League on 5Live Sat 8 Mar - 17:30 - Brentford v Aston Villa in the Premier League on 5Live Sun 9 Mar - 14:00 - Chelsea v Leicester City in the Premier League on 5Live Sun 9 Mar - 16:30 - Manchester United v Arsenal in the Premier League on 5Live

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox. And we would like to tell you about the new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage. We're going to have a planet off. Jupiter versus Saturn. It's very well done that because in the script it does say wrestling voice. After all of that, it's going to kind of chill out a bit and talk about ice.

And also in this series we're discussing history music recording with Brian Eno and looking at nature's shapes. So listen wherever you get your podcasts. BBC sounds music radio podcasts. Music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcast, the debrief with Kelly Kitts. Listen on BBC Sounds. 7-up for Arsenal in the Champions League and plenty of fizz in their performance. A 7-1 victory against PSV in Eindhoven in the first leg of their last 16 tie. Also a great night for Aston Villa, they were 3-1 winners at

Club Rouge. But we'll start at the Phillips Stadium for reaction to Arsenal's victory, therefore as Chris Sutton and our senior football reporter Ian Dennis. Denno, where on earth did the goals come from for Arsenal? Well, they came from everywhere, Kelly, and a stat from Opta, Arsenal the first side to score seven goals away from home in a Champions League knockout tie because PSV were pulverised by this Arsenal team who were ruthless. Despite the shortage of strikers, six different goal scorers they certainly changed the narrative as they registered their biggest away win in Europe with this impressive display. PSV will rue Sabari hitting a post before a timber header and Wanieri's lethal

finish put Arsenal 2 up. The Dutch champions quite rightly could argue Lewis Skelly should have been sent off after 26 minutes for a second bookable offence, however they cannot argue about the outcome. Moreno made it 3, Lang's penalty a consolation and then second half goals, an Urnegaard double, Trossard and Calafiore in the making the second leg a mere formality. Chris, I keep thinking about the Arsenal fans that you were talking to before the game who predicted a 0-0 in this one. Yeah, I may see them in the bar later in the hotel. Look, I can understand why they're concerned about this fixture because of PSV's recent form in the Eredivisie.

It hasn't been good but in the Champions League they've been really strong at home and Arsenal have blanked in the last couple of games. So for them to actually win the game first and foremost but winning the manor which they did

do was phenomenal and they were pretty, you know, they were ruthless with the finishing, but some of the combination play in the final third was sensational. They shared the goals about, you know, mentioned Martin Odegaard and, you know, worry about his form, but he looked back to his very best. The pass, just watching it again on the monitor for Calafiori, the outside of his left boot, Sumpchus pass, and I mean, to a man that they were really strong all over the pitch and you know that centre-back pairing, phenomenal they are and I always felt before the game Luke de Jong, the sort of willing player he is, but they could squeeze, really squeeze the game and stay high and press the game because he's never going to run in behind but look, Miquel Arteta,

I don't know what he'll say after the game, but he couldn't have seen the nature of this victory and for them to run out winners as they did do. It's great for them now because, you know, with the second leg, you know, that is a foregone conclusion. There's no way back for PSV. It's job done and looking forward to the quarters now. Former Premier League wicket, Andros Townsend is also with us. Andros, you're desperate to come in on this. Yeah, it's just I'm watching that goal as well that Chris is talking about and it's that goal, Calafiore's goal, which sundered passing with performance because Calafiore is making sort of an inverted run inside right in behind the defence. I think it's sterling wide right, it's staying wide which allows Odegaard just to drop off in tons of space and get the ball and pick his pass and Tullofiori slots it away and it was

just overloading the attack in the final third that PSV all night they just couldn't live with. Andros is that a difference from from the last few Arsenal performances because they haven't scored in three out of the last four before tonight. Mikhail Ateta talked about using the Champions League different energy. Was that part of it? Was it something that they did in terms of their tactics? Was it about the opposition?

What was the difference? I think the main difference is they were able to establish control pretty early on in the match. I think it was probably 40-45 minutes before PSV really strung two or three passes together. So when you have that much control, you can start committing players forward. And they did that with Timber and Lewis Skelly before he came off. So they were able to be that expansive side and just create those overloads and really overwhelm PSV. It was only five minutes after PSV made it 3-1 that you thought, hang on a minute, they could be back in this. But Arsenal put that to bed within five minutes of the second half with two quick goals. after PSV made it 3-1 that you thought, hang on a minute, they could be back in this, but

Arsenal put that to bed within five minutes of the second half with two quick goals. Because Chris, I know we were sort of joking about the Arsenal fans being a bit nervous ahead of this one, but they would have been right to look and think, where are the goals coming from? Because in those games where Arsenal haven't scored at times, it looked like they weren't creating very much, but here, not only only did they create the chances they were ruthless when they got them. No absolutely and they would have been aware that you know the pressure on them you know going into this game maybe the pressure on Arsenal to to win a trophy this season because we all expected them to make the next step and you know the way that the Prengo league has has p out, the Champions League is the best chance for Arsenal to win a trophy. So to be as comfortable

as they were this evening, that's a really important step in the right direction. And the level of performance will give them great confidence, the chances which they created and when Yeri as well. His performance once you know, his performance once again and you think with young players at times that they'll come into the team and hit the ground running and then they'll take a dip but he looks he looks an absolutely phenomenal player, can drive the inside, has got that little step over to to go the outside so look I mean, you know, in terms of the Champions League, there's still a long way to go. When you have a defence which is as good as Arsenal's and as watertight as Arsenal's, they will

take some stopping in this competition. The second goal that was scored by Nwaneri was assisted by Miles Lewis Skelly. That is two English teenagers combining for a goal for the first time ever in the Champions League history, which is just a nice thing for English football, a nice thing for those two young players, Andros, who are appearing in a significant game in the Champions League. Yes, brilliant. And when you're that age, you don't really feel pressure. You're just so full of youth. It's difficult to explain. So full of youth and confidence that you don't think about, wow, this is a Champions League knockout fixture away from home. You're just in the moment and you could see with those guys, they were just in the moment

enjoying being on that stage and it was amazing to see. And thankfully from an English perspective Lewis Skelly wasn't given the red card he probably should have been but it was amazing to see those guys perform so well. I saw Lee Carsley recently in the 21 England manager at Molineux and he was watching both Wanieri and Lewis Skelly and that was at the game obviously Lewis Skelly was sent off in. It's sometimes hard to believe that they're just 17 years of age. In particular the way that Wanieri now has got this developed, his physicality is the one thing that has struck me this season about him. They are two super prospects for Arsenal and England for years

to come I think. What they do though when Saka comes back he's got this unbelievable talent who his development is going to be harmed. Is there a way you can fit them both into the same team as well as having Odegaard hanging off the right side as well? Well, Michael Arteta earlier in the season, Andros was asked about that because, and he was saying about how he's got to be careful, they've still got to treat him with a degree of caution because obviously of his tender age. But his performances week in, week out,

you know, and Lewis Skelly has since developed, I think since that conversation took place about Waniere. I mean, it's one of those lovely dilemmas, I think, isn't it, for any manager to have. What a night for Arsenal. Let's hear from Mikel Arteta. It obviously gives us a lot of joy and confidence and belief. In football, it's not what we did three days ago or two days ago. It's going to be what we do tomorrow. We go to Old Trafford, how we behave, how we play, and are we able to win a game?

That's it. Enjoy tonight because it was a very impressive performance and an unbelievable score so we deserve that and now take it and keep improving as a team. We ask them really to take initiative when you come to this stage you really have to play and love the game and take initiative and go for it and today we have a full back on Miles that puts a cross in for the opposite winger. You have Jurin scoring as a header, as a fullback. And they have Ricky making a movement as a nine

and scoring with the right foot. That's what I'm talking about flow, about courage and about playing the way we want to play. Declan Rice has told TV about Munary and Mars Lewis Skelly. He said they deserve to be playing. And he said, even if Pekai Asaka was here, Ethan Maneri would still be around the squad because that's how well he trains and you know talking exactly to the point you were asking about Andros, which is they would find a way or they would want

to find a way that they could they could fit him into that setup. It was really impressive for both of them but Andros you raised the point. Miles Lewis Skelly may well have been lucky to be to be on the pitch for as long as he was and he was substituted in the end by by Mikael Arteta because he was treading a very fine line. Yeah I think he was very very because see on his face after the second one he knew he was in big trouble but he was saved by the ref and I think Mikael Arteta, if the score was close I probably wouldn't have humiliated him like that but being thrilling up at the time you can pull him off and say listen the game's done I'm saving you for the second leg or the next

game and come and take a seat with me. So yeah it was great managing from Mikael Arteta to kind of put his arm around him and give him that sort of, give him that rest. Yeah Chris you thought that second challenge was a booking, didn't you? Yeah, I think everybody, other than the person who Matt had talked to was a second yellow, so fortunate in that respect. It's not like Mikel Arteta looked to the bench

and thought, I'm short of left backs. You know, choice of three, and that's one position where, you know, they're exceptionally strong, and as Andros says, really good management in the fact that whipping him off, so there's no danger then and, you know, has the quality of Calafiore to come on and replace him. But the one thing about Miles Lewis Skelly is, you know, he can be a little bit rash at times and that's something, you know, he has to get out of his game. You know, I think he was unfortunate to get the first yellow actually I

thought De Jong made a meal of a little pullback and hit the ground too easy I thought that was unfortunate but then he has to sort of box clever in his mind that he did do and not be so rash and maybe pull out with that that particular challenge and you know if it ends up with you with somebody getting a cross in, so be it. So that's part of his game where maybe he needs to mature. But he looks at a brilliant prospect and can slot into that midfield role well and created the goal well for Waniere.

And that all bodes well for Arsenal. And you mentioned when Saka comes back, when Martinelli comes back, it will be really interesting how Mikel Arteta uses the players in the front line and maybe rotates them but if you want to win major trophies you have to have that competition for places. And Kelly I mentioned this in commentary we're talking about Lewis Skelly and Ethan Waniere. Remember the name of Max Dalman he's only 15 years of age but what I am hearing

from scouts people who have seen him, the level of excitement around this young fella, he will be the next one to come off the conveyor belt, mark my words. And you are really well connected so that yeah Mark Dennis works. You mentioned Lee Carsley scouting Lewis Skelly and Waniere for the under 21s. Do you think with England's left-back problems over the last year or so, do you think he could be thrust into a senior set-up sooner rather than later? The impression that I got is that I think they'll be careful about the way that they manage them because of their age at Andros. But if he continues his performances, you know, the way he's going, undoubtedly he would

be under consideration. I mean, we'll have to obviously see how Thomas Tuchel and his way of thinking is regarding that position, but the thing is, for both of them, that they're definitely on the radar of the FA. That's a great question. Why would Thomas Tuchel not put him in? I mean, who's more informed than Lewis Skelly? And when do you think that he can keep out Calafiore,

he can keep out Zinchenko, he can keep out Tierney, you think about the quality of those three players, why would Thomas Tuchel not get him in? I don't know whether it's that exposure to the international stage, isn't it? And it's that balancing act, I guess, in terms of trying to manage that exposure. But he's informed form isn't he? You know when you say I'm well connected I've not got the hotline to Thomas Tuchel. Not yet anyway.

Do you think a manager, a foreign manager who signed a year and a half deal is worried about exposure to young talent or do you think he has to pick his best 23 or 26 players? Yeah I think he would go with the 23 and 26 undoubtedly. I mean, that's what Thomas Tuchel has been brought in for. I think this is pretty simple. On merit, does he deserve to get a call up for the England squad? I think we'd all agree. Yes. What about Arsenal and their future in the Champions League this season?

Obviously, we were assuming they're going to progress to the next round now. They will be in the quarterfinals with that 7-1 advantage, where they will face the winner of the Madrid derby. So Real Madrid won that by two goals to one in the first leg. If it's Madrid in the quarterfinals, it's going to be tough for Arsenal. What do you think their credentials are to progress in this tournament, Chris? Yeah, I just think it's so open. You look at Real Madrid's domestic form and I think in recent times away from home I think they've struggled off

memory and there's no reason why on any given day Arsenal can't be Real Madrid and as I say the key to Arsenal is defensively. they are really strong, Real Madrid have great attacking talent, they do, but Arsenal are capable, I'm sure, of a shutout in that respect. And as Andros spoke about this, a combination play in the final third, if it comes off, Arsenal can beat anybody. I'm absolutely convinced about that, and they have a real chance of winning the Champions League. And of course, there'll be the age-old question about whether they should have brought a striker in the summer, brought a striker in January.

They didn't, they'll have to get on with it but bodes well with what happened tonight where goals from lots of different areas but Arsenal are good enough to win the Champions League. I think the way Arsenal approach the big games, they're probably best suited to stop in Real Madrid's front four. They'll set up with four centre halves and two defensive number sixes in front of them. So yeah, I think they're best suited to play in a Real Madrid over two legs than probably in Man City. On the Football Daily Podcast, The Debrief. Listen on BBC Sounds. On Friday night, Five Life Boxing presents Ringside Commentary live from the Royal Albert Hall. Liverpool's WBC and IBF World Champion, Natasha Jonas and Cardiff's Lauren Price face off in an all-British World Welterweight Division unification fight.

What a right hook to end the combination! Attach it to Jonas, pouring it on! Jonas V. Price, live from the Royal Albert Hall. Friday night from 9. Ask a smart speaker. Play BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox and we would like to tell you about the new series Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live Live live Live live Live live Live live Live live Live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live live voice. After all of that, it's going to kind of chill out a bit and talk about ice. And also in this series we're discussing history music, recording with Brian Eno and looking at nature's shapes. So listen wherever you get your podcasts. Now in a different country, but only just about 100 miles east of Eindhoven, in Belgium, there was another big win for an English side. Aston Villa beat Club Bruges 3-1 to take a huge step towards the Champions League quarter-finals. Unai Ambi made four substitutes just after an hour and that helped to turn the game in his side's favour.

Matty Cash was one of them. I think we can all say we haven't really been fully at our best everyone really this season as a group really I think. But obviously you look at it we're obviously in the FA Cup quarter-finals. We've got another massive game next week and then one of the main things we want to get consistent in the league and get back into the top five. But it's obviously nice to be in the top competitions and if you're still in them in March it's obviously a good sign so fingers crossed we can keep going.

You obviously want to do the best you can and you want to dream about playing in the big games and competing but it is cliche you have got to take every game as it comes you know because when you get into the later stages of the rounds the quality of the teams, you're up against a high quality. So you can only do as best as you can. And obviously, yeah, we want to dream. We want to try and compete at every competition we can.

And hopefully we can. Do you have a chance to take it in, Matty, in terms of like the games coming, thinking fast, like you said, but we've been speaking to quite a lot of fans who make these European trips and they're savouring it these are sort of lifetime memories. Are you kind of sensing that level of occasion? Yeah I think as a footballer you just sort of sometimes it just goes past you you know like you have so many games and you have to focus so much on game by game with traveling to different countries to play It's fantastic as a player you want to do that obviously I think for for me, I've had a few niggles and missed a few games

and you can sit back and watch it and you see it from a different angle. But when you're in it, you're so focused and the game is hard to get caught up in it. For the fans, it's obviously a better day out and we're here to do a job and to enjoy it. Andras, Matty Cash was saying though, he feels that as a group, Aston Villa haven't been at their best for large parts of this season and you could almost make that, or you could make that argument for the performance against Bruges, which you know, bar those two late goals felt pretty even between the sides, but Aston Villa take that 3-1 Winter Villa Park.

Yeah, if anything I'd say Bruges were the better side. Aston Villa scored early and I thought, oh, here we go. Bruges are going to have to come out and Villa will pick him apart. But Bruges scored soon after that. And then they really controlled the game and controlled possession. They had they were playing with a 3-1-6. They were keeping the ball so well. When they were turning it over, they were counter pressing so well.

And Aston Villa weren't really able to have much joy. And like you said, it was only really until we made four changes on 16 minutes, which shows he wasn't happy, which kind of turned the game a little bit and then they were able to get the fortunate own goal in the 80th minute and score a penalty soon after, which really swung the tie their way. But yeah, it was a tough, tough night for them and they managed to find a way to get it done. Yeah, Unai Emery was very frustrated on the touchline, probably as animated as we've seen him before he made those substitutions. At that stage, you think, well, it's one-all away from home in the first leg of a Champions

League last 16 times, not the worst result in the world, but he wanted more. He didn't like what he was seeing. Because I think from a neutral, I can say Bruges were counter pressing really well but from an Aston Villa point of view they were turning the ball over often pretty soon after they won it back they weren't really able to string passes together they were losing it pretty quickly so from a Villa perspective it wasn't good enough so he decided to make the changes took off some big big players by the way as well but yeah in the changes. Took off some big, big players, by the way, as well,

but yeah, in the end, it paid off for him. And that penalty at the end that you mentioned scored by Marco Asensio, he's looking like the signing of the January, well, I think he came in officially on the 2nd of February, but the signing of the January transfer window. Yeah, he's a special, special talent. He always has been, even when he first came through

at Madrid, I think he struggled with a knee injury, always struggled with his knee, which sort of stopped him from being world-class class but as we've seen since he's been at Villa he's still that top top level player. Elsewhere in the Champions League round of 16 first legs, Real Madrid beat Atlético Madrid 2-1, Borussia Dortmund won, Lille won, was the full-time result in Dortmund. For Aston Villa it looks likely to be Paris Saint-Germain or Liverpool in the quarterfinals. That's the Wednesday night commentary game. Paris Saint-Germain are at home for that one and Arna slot has

been speaking to John Murray. Do you feel because of the form that PSG are in that you have got the toughest draw that you could have got? We could only have two Benfica or Paris Saint-Germain. And although I like Benfica a lot as well, everyone who watched football the last few months could have told you that we would have preferred probably to play against Benfica instead of Paris Saint-Germain. But this is also a great fixture to play, it's a great stadium to play. If you are playing at Liverpool, you want to play the big games.

So yes, we have to accept what the draw is and it's for both teams are facing a very strong opponent not only us, they as well. And so many individual you know comparisons that you can make between the two teams I'm sure that people will pick out Salah and Dembele. How have you viewed Ousmane Dembele's return to top form really this season? What do you sense that he's done and how has he got back to that level? No, I think Luis Enrique did a lot of things really well over here in the past one and a half seasons. He really created in a few transfer windows a team where I think, I don't know him, I haven't asked him, but I assume that he's quite happy with what he created over here, not only in

team performance but also in individual performance if you look at the quality Dembele brings to the team at the moment is impressive. So that is one of the many similarities there are, both are having attackers in great form, scoring a lot of goals and all the other things I just said but it's clear that Luis Zorica did a great great job over here in the past one and a half season and he was already in the semi-finals of the Champions League last season and in my opinion this team is even better than the one that he managed last season. That was on a slot talking to John Murray, I had a Liverpool's game in Paris against

Paris Saint-Germain in the Champions League. Eden Denny's Chris Sutton and Andros Townsend are all still here. Chris, it's a tough draw, and Arna Slot was very open about the fact you'd rather they weren't playing Paris Saint-Germain. But this is a side that didn't start their Champions League competition particularly well.

But while they don't have those kind of glittering global superstars that they have done in the past are they maybe a more effective team a more a more difficult opponent in some ways as a team? Yeah I think it's really interesting you know they they still have talent but it feels you know you mentioned the superstars I've had before and maybe they weren't a team when they've had the likes of you know Messi there and Mbappe and something wasn't quite functioning and they've you know they've gone down a different route now but I think this is

a really dangerous game for Liverpool and of course with Liverpool they're flying in the in the Premier League but I thought was you know on a slot quite right about the draw they would have much preferred Benfica. PSG have players who can really hurt Liverpool. Liverpool have had a phenomenal season, but I think they've got the work cut out to beat PSG, I really do. I think Luis Enrique, the manager, is a top coach and I think he always struggled to coach and then back and get his ideas across. Without those sort of world-class star players, he's got a team that he's able to now get function. Like I said, they

haven't got the star quality but they're still performing at the highest level. Yeah, he likes those young, energetic players and that's what Liverpool are going to be coming up against and that they're going to be trying to do at Andros with an away record that isn't fantastic. They got the win at Manchester City but before that they'd only won twice in eight away games across all competitions. Should they be concerned about that heading to Paris do you think? No I think that's probably a question for stat man Dave. I don't really pay too much attention to those stats, but I think always when you go to the

park de France it's always going to be a difficult, difficult game. So yeah, we're over there, firing all cylinders away from home or they're going to struggle. It's going to be a tough game. Great point that because they're no banging on about PSV over against Arsenal and their record and Andros is quite right. I mean, it counts for nothing all those stats. I agree. It may well be that there is something in the way that teams set up at home, that Liverpool set up in

in their away games that means that they they struggle to get all three points if it's in the league or to get the victory in the in the knockout competitions. Here's another one for you then, Chris, given that you're loving the stats tonight. PSG have won 7-0 in two of their last four games. In those four games they have scored a total of 21 goals. Yeah, that's a great stat. Is that a stat that you do like? Does that point to something that could cause problems for Liverpool's defence by any chance? Well, if you're asking me, do I think PSG will score seven against Liverpool I would say no.

Yeah that's it. I think it'll be quite close. I think it'll be really tight going to Anfield but I wouldn't rule anything out in this tie. I think that is tie of the round and Liverpool phenomenal this season. Can they do the Champions League double with the Premier League? Of course they've got the Carabao Cup final coming up but for them to be in this position at this stage of the season and the way that the team, and I know they haven't had a lot of injuries and what have you, but nobody saw this coming from Arnaud Slot. The thing is though, is that I remember having this conversation when Arsenal went to Portugal earlier in the Champions League and everyone was raving about sporting Lisbon and you're talking then about the strength of the Premier League in comparison, you know, when you take away Benfica,

Porto and sporting of the Portuguese League, for instance, the strength of the Portuguese League doesn't compare to that of the power of the Premier League and it's very similar to France that you take away, you take away those top sides. PSG, a different level though, I think. Well I saw them against Arsenal early, Arsenal deservedly beat them too. That was early on in the season? That was earlier on. I get that. They're a strong winning run. That's interesting. I still think, and it's a shame that the English sides are in the same half of the draw because you know you're only going to get one English team reaching the final. Had you had them

a bit more of a split it might have made for a more interesting conclusion. The Barcelona half of the draw is the easiest half of the draw. Whoever wins... The draw's the draw, you can't complain about the draw. I wouldn't start all this English arrogance and there's definitely going to be an English team. I wouldn't rule out the English team. I wasn't saying about the English team, I'm saying for Barcelona. To be fair, Daniel, you did say there's only going to be one English side in the final,

so there was an assumption that an English side would make the final. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going... Yeah, all right, OK. I got your point. No, I take it. I take your point that at most there will be one English side in the final. Sorry.

We're picking on you, Denno. Andros, come in. Yeah, no, I think normally going into the latter stage of the Champions League, I worry about the Premier League because they don't make allowances for the top sides and they face more of a burnout because it's a more competitive league. But if you look at this year, you look at Liverpool, probably could have the league zone up in a month or so. Arsenal probably could have second zone up.

Villa could have nothing else to fight for. They could be mid-table. So it could be a year where the Premier League side can fully focus on the Champions League and not have to fight on two, three, four fronts. And to Chris and Dano who are gonna have a fascinating chat after we come off it, are you two still friends? He needs me to be his friend because I'm giving him a lift back to Anfield on Saturday to press six so he is. Do you know what, Kelly?

He brought a foot long earlier, didn't you? And I haven't had any tea and he didn't even share it. A foot long sub? A sandwich? Yes, yes, yes. I didn't bring it to the Grand Ace. Not a long foot. I'm size 12.

I brought two long feet. Didn't even share it with me. I left the red nose at home. Don't do what Homer Simpson did and just leave it to kind of fester until it gave him food poise. Anyway, Ian and Chris in Eindhoven. Thank you very much. Thank you very much to Andrew as well.

We'll have all the build up. PSG against Liverpool. Commentary from eight o'clock. And of course, you'll be able to hear that on Five Live Sport. In the shadows of Glasgow, two crime families rose to power. You're either with the Daniel family or you're with the Lions family. There's no in-between. A brutal war for control of Glasgow's lucrative drug trade that still rages today.

Police think it's the work of a criminal gang. Join me, Livy Haydock, as I investigate the battle that shattered the old school rules of crime. They're just terrorising people whatever they meant. Gangster, the story of the Daniels and the Lions. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox. And we would like to tell you about the new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage.

We're going to have a planet off. Jupiter vs. Saturn! It's very well done that because in the script it does say wrestling voice. After all of that it's going to kind of chill out a bit and talk about ice. And also in this series we're discussing history of music, recording with Brian Eno and looking at nature's shapes. So listen wherever you get your podcasts.