Football Daily - Champions League Debrief: Celtic Heartbreak in Munich

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

Kelly Cates is joined by BBC senior football reporter Ian Dennis, former Scotland winger Pat Nevin, former England winger Andros Townsend and Statman Dave to reflect on a heartbreaking night for Celtic in Munich after an Alphonso Davies goal 40 seconds from full time sent Bayern Munich through to the last 16 of the Champions League. It finished 1-1 on the night and 3-2 on aggregate after Nicolas Kuhn had earlier put Celtic 1-0 up on the night.Celtic manager Brendan Rodgers shares his pride in his side's performance, while Christian Falk, Head of Football for Sport Bild, joins the pod to give us the Bayern perspective.We also hear from Pep Guardiola, who says Manchester City needs to play with courage against Real Madrid in the Bernabeu on Wednesday if they're to reach the last 16.Topics: 00:40 - Initial reaction to Bayern 1-1 (3-2) Celtic 19:20 - Brendan Rodgers INTERVIEW 23:12 - Pep Guardiola INTERVIEW 24:12 - Real Madrid v Manchester City previewBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this week: Wed 19 Feb 2000 Real Madrid v Manchester City in the Champions League Fri 21 Feb 1945 Portugal v England in the Women's Nations League Sat 22 Feb 1500 Arsenal v West Ham United in the Premier League Sat 22 Feb 1730 Aston Villa v Chelsea in the Premier League on 5 Sports Extra Sun 23 Feb 1400 Newcastle v Nottingham Forest in the Premier League Sun 23 Feb 1630 Manchester City v Liverpool in the Premier League

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It's Champions League heartache for Celtic in Munich. It's an Alfonso Davis goal, 40 seconds from time, sent Bayern Munich through to the last 16. It finished 1-1 on the night, 3-2 on aggregate. Nicholas Kuhn earlier put Celtic 1-01 on the night, 3-2 on aggregate. Nicolas Kuhn earlier put Celtic 1-0 up on the night. We'll reflect on that game. We'll also hear from Pep Guardiola,

ahead of Manchester City's Champions League playoff second leg against Real Madrid. But we'll start, of course, at the Allianz Arena, where former Scotland international Pat Neven and our senior football reporter Ian Dennis have just watched that extraordinary end to Bayern against Celtic. Deno, absolute heartbreak for Brendan Rodgers' side, especially having done so much to earn at least extra time in the game. Yeah, they were so close to extra time. I thought his calls that he made with his team selection was

vindicated with Schlup starting at left back and Jota starting at Maeda going through the middle. The better the chances are thought in the first half. I mean I know Harry Kane hit the crossbar late on but then you had that goal from Kuhn that just came about through the persistence and the never-ending running of Maeda. And Kuhn took it very, very well after 63 minutes. And Celtic were starting to dream then. They'd never won away in Germany in their history in Europe before. But ultimately Bayern Munich were just wearing them down.

And we were into four minutes of added on time. We were 40 seconds away from extra time. When a cross came in from the right, Guretzka threw himself at it. Great save by Schmeichel, but on the rebound, the ball was smuggled across the goal line by Alfonso Davies and Bayern Munich in such a cruel manner from a Celtic point of view tied the match 1-1,

but go through 3-2 on aggregate. Pat Callan McGregor's been talking to Amazon Prime. He said, so, so proud of the players. Sometimes you don't get what you deserve. It's a real sore one. How would you describe that Celtic performance? You could have spent a long time describing it. Look, to be honest, stand back a little bit and say,

right, the opposition had more of the ball and then at the end of the game they were creating more of the chances. But every single Celtic player at the start of that game had an eight or a nine out of ten, at the very least. Maybe my header was a little bit more than that, a nine and a half out of ten. The tactics were superb, the bravery on the ball, everyone talks about bravery, but bravery isn't going in for a tackle, bravery is not that sort of stuff. What it is is wanting the ball in difficult positions, dangerous positions against good players and believing you're as good as them. I looked across that line, Engels, McGregor, Atati, everyone are absolutely at it.

Thrusty, Carter-Vickers, the Plenegas, again you could argue one of the best two or three centre-followers in the world in Hurricane. Kept him very quiet for the vast majority of the game. Johnston, he gets a lot of stick from a lot of people. He played against world-class wingers and they lined up one after the other against him. He gave them nothing. Absolutely nothing and you know just watching Jor to come back and give them everything he could possibly do. You were talking about my Ada there just for a moment right. I always try to think for fans of teams who have never seen Maeda play and you know who is he like? Nobody right absolutely nobody he's not like any other player because he just doesn't stop

he just keeps on running the whole time and it's not stupid running all the time. So you go through the team you're proud of every single one of them and well done to the manager, tactically getting it right because you've got to say you got it right, you must say you got it right. He played what was almost a 4-4-2 which I would say a year and a half ago people would laugh at you for doing because it was an outdated system that people weren't playing very often. Well that's not the way it was tonight. Go and be open, see if you can close them down and just ask them so many questions. So were the weaknesses were, particularly at centre backs there. So yeah as you can tell I'm really proud of those Celtic players out there and really proud of

the fact that they made Scottish football you know understood to be a little bit better than a lot of people think it and I'm just really sad that they never got what they deserved which was at least extra time. More than holding their own at the Allianz Arena. Andras Townsend and Stadman Dave are also with us. Andras, what were your thoughts? No, I just think there's one man that weren't mentioned and Jeffrey Schlup. Zoli's second or third game for Selwick, not played much this season, had to go up against Elise, kept him very, very quiet.

Sane came on again, kept him quiet, and unfortunately the goal came from them both being on the right-hand side, ball getting stopped, played back to Sane, who played the crossing, but hats off to Jeffrey Schlup, who came in at the last minute and delivered a man-of-the-match performance for me.

Dave, how did the game play out from your point of view? No, just to back up Andros in terms of the defensive statistics for Jeffrey Schlup in the game made nine clearances, seven tackles, won six of those, five interceptions, all the most on the pitch which is absolutely massive. But I think just what Pat was saying before, I think the composure we saw especially in central midfield from Celtic was really good. I can't remember a side that was so confident in such a big away game. You're looking at McGregor's pass completion was around 92% and Engels was around 93. But they were using the ball really well.

Of course, pass completions aren't the be all and end all of football, but how they were moving by and around, especially in that first half, was just so impressive. Christian Falck joins us now, head of football for SportBuilt. Christian was that the game you thought it would be? No nobody expected to be true and big compliment to Celtic. It was a really crazy game normally you think Bayern Munich is playing at home they have a good result in the first leg. But they were really really impressed about Celtic. If you see the last 20 minutes against Celtic in the first leg, then 90 minutes against Leverkusen, there was no goal, also not a good match.

And now 90 minutes again, which were really not really not Bayern Munich like but you see it's Bayern Munich, Davis was injured he's coming in he's scoring the goal so this is also Bayern Munich you know they are fighting till the end and when it counts they are there. Harry Kane came off at half time is that a tactical decision or is that a follow-on from the facial injury he picked up in the last game? Yes, yes that was it because he didn't train yesterday as well, the day before. I think he has still problems with his jaw, normally they don't put him off in such important match. You saw that we need Harry Kane, he had a big chance in the first half and they don't have a striker behind him.

So we have to see how he feels for the next matches. Normally they wouldn't put him off. Christian, what will the reflections on this game be from a buy-in perspective? Will it just be about progressing to the last 16 or will they be looking deeper at how Vincent Kompani side approached these two legs, particularly this second one against Celtic? I think it's a learning process still. Kompani is a young coach, he's playing a very risky game with Bayern Munich, you know, the defense is still a problem, it's too far forward, I think in my opinion you saw it. Brandon

Rogers saw it as well. He used it when Kuhn scored. I think Dyson was still always looking for his chance. I think that could work in a match against Celtic. Perhaps it was really close, but if you're getting further and you have better teams, I think this will be a big big problem and Yes, and if you don't have a Harry Kane in front who is scoring It's getting yeah such a match we saw already They have an eight-point lead at the top of the Bundesliga over by a Leverkusen But they come off that that game against Leverkusen at the weekend where there was a lot

of criticism for that performance from Munich and then again not looking quite at their best in this game against Celtic. Is there a sense that they're starting to, I don't know, show signs of maybe nerves or fatigue or what do you think it is? Yes, it's a thing in the head of the Bayern players at the moment, you know with this team of companies they don't win the big matches still, it's a question. The whole season there was one win against Paris Saint-Germain I think it's not the Paris we saw the last year so perhaps you can count it, I think you's not the Paris we saw the last year. So perhaps you can count it I think you can't count it and then they didn't made it against Celtic now again

And you take this in your head Round and round and the big target of Bayern Munich is to play the final in their own stadium the final at home We call it and that's the big target. But at the moment nobody has the feeling they can reach it and that's the big target but at the moment nobody has the feeling they can reach it and this could be a thing Bayern Munich is not used to but normally you say at Bayern Munich if you sign a contract you get in Jokule the winning gem but at the moment they don't have it in the big and this is a big question for this team at the moment. I think when you're looking at Bayern Munich at the moment, it's the chances that they're conceding and you go maybe back to the Feyenoord game in the league stage, or even the Barcelona game,

where they were so open in certain phases, again they conceded over one expected goal, that was after the weekend where it was over two. And that's something that Bayern Munich definitely need to fix and to sort out if they're going to progress in this tournament far too many times. You had Uwe Mikano and Kim Min-jae dealing with players in 1v1 situations and both of those players had errors leading to shots in the game. Of course, Uwe Mikano's wasn't to a goal, but Kim's was. And that is a big, big concern for Bayern right now. Yes, they always play 1-1 in the defence. I think they have to change it for a big win in Europe. The defence is winning the title and they are always there for mistakes.

And the other thing is Bayern Munich is easy to read. If you have a good Jamal Muziala, I think nobody can stop them. Like the match today, you don't see him on the pitch, there are no ideas. I think this is too easy for other teams if they play against Bayern Munich. If you put Musiala out and play high balls or quick balls behind the defense of Bayern Munich, you have always chances and this could be really, really risky for Kompany in the next round. Looking at the bigger picture and I know you said normally winning the Bundesliga is not enough for Bayern Munich manager. Given what happened last

season is getting that title back would that be deemed successful if that is all that Bayern won this season? I think after the last season where they didn't win anything I think for Kompany it would didn't win anything, I think for company it would be okay to winning just the league, but it's always how you play the Champions League. I think if you would have lost against Celtic this round, I think there would have been enormous pressure on company. Now they're in the next round, now we have to see which team they get. Atletico Madrid is always a difficult team for Bayern Munich, but everybody knows

it's a top team in Europe, but you can also get Bayer Leverkusen. And if you lose against Bayer Leverkusen in the next round, nobody cares for the championship in Germany because everybody think now Bayer Leverkusen is the better team. They throw Bayern Munich out of the cup, the national one. Bayern Munich couldn't win one match in the league against Leverkusen and if you go out in the next runs against Leverkusen, yes, then I think you have a big problem at Bayern Munich. Christian, lovely to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time this evening. Always a pleasure. Thank you very much to Christian Falk,

head of football for SportBuilt. And Pat Neven, I wanted to ask you about a player we haven't mentioned in detail yet, and that's Kasper Schmeichel, and some of the big saves that he made in that game. Yeah, he was kind of flawless with the safes tonight. Actually came and got a few crosses as well in important moments but it was the safes that kind of caught your eye a little bit. The ones from about 20 yards, 30 yards,

you know, they were bouncing, taking a little deflections but a lot of them were coming straight to him but they weren't bouncing off and he was keeping them, you know, really professional, keeping his eye on them, they were coming at pace sometimes but then there were a couple of really decent ones that were off to the side. Again there was another one that took a deflection and he read it really really well so he was on it tonight, he was absolutely on it tonight and I feel really sorry for him because there was a couple of times we played a couple of passes and you think, no you're taking a chance there, but hey he's been asked to do it and he done it.

And he got away with it tonight, so absolutely well done. Perfect, Casper. But when you look at the final goal, he makes a really good save on the line and he's done nothing wrong there at all. And then even the clearance from the goal is the right thing. But you don't know there know this player coming in behind you and it just deflects into the net. So, Schmeichel was interesting,

I don't know if you saw it in the footage, but after the goal was scored against him, he went and got the ball, he said, right, come on, let's have another goal. And then realized, oh, there's only 30 seconds left. And he was, oh, he was gutted, but he did brilliantly. He played really, really well tonight. And it'siantly, he played really really well tonight and he's been a great signing for Celtic, he's made such a difference to the team because obviously

he had big, I was going to say shoes to fill, big gloves to fill and he's managed to fill those gloves with ease. I think that's what impressed me most about this Celtic performance because normally away from home against a big club you don't take any chances, you're compact, you're hard to break down and you try to play on the counter-attack. But Celtic not only did they do that but also when they did get the ball they took chances, they tried to keep the ball, they tried to play out from the back. So it was almost beyond a perfect performance, it was almost so much better than a perfect performance and they were just so close. You're absolutely spot on. The thing is if you're a Celtic week in, week out, yeah, that's what they do.

That's how they play. Yeah, but they don't play that when they go to PSG or Barcelona or Bayern Munich because they're not allowed to play that way because they never get enough of the ball. But are you're right on this occasion, they thought, A, the ball but on this occasion they thought A, the manager said just go and play your own game, be brave, get on the ball, believe in yourself, trust yourself, play the kind of football that you're capable of playing and don't worry that it's not done de-united it's Bayern Munich, just do it. And they did do it and suddenly you believe in it but I do go back to the fact that that last period of the game at Celtic Park, when they managed to do it and that 20, 25 minute period, you know yourself,

actually, that's possible because we've done it before. Had they not done it in that first half, that first leg, then they might not have been able to believe in themselves. Because remember, it's not just yourself you have to believe in, is it? You have to believe in every single player around you. And that was, I agree with you. That is what I was impressed with today. Everyone thought, yeah, I trust my mate.

I'll give him the ball even under pressure because he can cope with it. And that's why it was a good performance. Andros, they'll go away and they'll, they will analyze this obviously. And there'll be lots to admire in that Celtic performance. There'll be lots that Brendan Rodgers and his team will be happy with when they assess

it. Will they be looking at the small details? They'll be looking particularly at those big four chances in the opening 15 minutes and thinking, it's a Champions League play-off, you can't miss those chances? Normally I'd say yes. If the game ended 0-0 and they didn't score, I'd say yes. But the fact they sort of almost made amends for the misses by eventually getting a goal at the beginning of the second half, they got the goal they needed. So they can't really blame the missed chances because they scored the goal.

There wasn't any mistakes either which cost them So it's a really frustrating one to break down to be honest. There's no real holes they can pick out of this performance They missed the chances, but they still scored the goal they needed So yes Even when you look at the equalizer It's a brilliant save from from Casper Schmeichel in there in the build-up to that and it just is just luck as to where it Where it falls in fact you you said, you you said they can take this into the league, they already have an extremely healthy lead at the top of the Scottish Premiership

and this is a kind of perennial talking point, a perennial issue for teams in the Scottish Premiership who are going into European competition, that they're having to raise their game in a way they don't have to every week when they're playing in the league. Yeah that's absolutely true but you can't have your cake and eat it as well. Remember a lot of teams in England say well it's really hard for us because we get tough games every single week and we're really tired when it comes to the European football. So you, there are ups and downs. You are in the league you're in.

You are in the situation that you are in. And not every single game in the SPFL is going to be an easy game. You know, they're tested quite a lot at the time. But you're right, you're not going to be tested at this level all the time. But what you do is you just keep on slowly but surely building and bettering your squad. And I have to say, come back to, well said Andros, come back to Schlup. I'd mentioned just about every player there and forgot to mention the man of the match. Absolutely spot on. He has been a phenomenal bi-facilitate and they need to keep on doing that sort of thing.

They need to keep on bringing in people that, you if it's a good team it's done really well at this to get to this level do you sit there with that no you don't you've done well financially okay how can you make it better maybe they lead need a little bit more punch up front maybe that's the bit that you need to do but as we all know they're the most expensive ones to buy and that's maybe the next area they need to look at. Do you think they'll regret selling Kyogo the way that they did? No, I don't think they will oddly I know that makes me surprise you maybe his best years have gone you know and just having watched them and maybe he's not going to lift you to the

next level and I do rate them and I love him as a player, and every Celtic fan loves him as a player. But the next jump's going to have to be somebody who's a different type of player to that, almost like Ida, but a better version. Let's get some reaction from Celtic manager Brendan Rodgers. How do you begin to process what you've just watched? Well, like you say, a mixture of firstly, pride in the performance level. We have to

remember this is Bayern Munich and I think everyone had talked about that before the game and the challenges that we have here. But I thought performance-wise we were outstanding in the game. Play without any fear, defend defended so well with discipline, pressed at the right moments, gave them issues on that side of the build-up and then were able to be compact and tight in the right moments. And didn't give away so much, I think Harry hit the cross bar in the first half but there wasn't too many other real glaring opportunities for them yet. In the first half we had created really, really good chances. So, in the second half we had to defend a wee bit more,

but we know the game plan and the game idea, and then we get in front, and deservedly so, I felt. And then it was just about, could we get the second one? But it never looked that we were going to concede the goal that we did. And obviously, sadly for us, right at the end, we did. But I can only take immense pride from the performance. And like I say, the guys gave everything. Through to the last 16, Fejnord who drew one all at Milan.

They go through two one on aggregate. Benfica and Club Bruges are also in the last 16. Benfica drew three all with Monaco on the night. They go through four three on aggregate. And Atalanta are out. A big shock, they were beaten by Club Bruges 3-1 on the night. They go through 5-2 on aggregate. Brilliant performance over the two legs.

But Dave, Atalanta, the sort of hidden stars of this competition are out. Yeah, unfortunately, they have such an aggressive man-to-man press and unfortunately, especially the two first bruised goals They were kind of caught out in different moments, but you know, we've spoken about Kasper Schmeichel and his nine saves massive against Bayern Munich That's the joint most of any player in the knockout saves of the Champions League Was tied with Simon Mignolet today who made nine saves in the game at Atlanta hit the post twice

They had one off cleared off the line, but Simon Mignolet Atalanta hit the post twice, they had one off cleared off the line, but Simo Minule prevented an expected goals of 3.32. Kelly, I don't think I've seen that in football ever. That's the most in the Champions League this season, it's probably the most in the Champions League in the last three seasons. It was a massive performance for him in between the sticks, but Atalanta just simply couldn't put the ball in the back and missed the penalty as well. Disappointing for the boys in Bergman. How do you dive into the heart of sports action? With Botano. With Botano, you can bet on all your favorite sports.

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On Saturday night, 5Live Boxing presents live ringside coverage from Riyadh. British heavyweight champion Daniel Dubois will be making his second IBF title defense against former world champion Joseph Parker in the co-main event. Artur Betabier and Dmitri Bivo will headline the night in an undisputed light heavyweight rematch, plus a stacked undercard. Join us for a huge night of live world title boxing on Saturday night from 7.30pm. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily Podcast with Kelly Kitts. Manchester City face an uphill task to reach the last 16 of the Champions League. They trail Real Madrid 3-2 heading into Wednesday night's second leg at the Bernabeu. Live commentary

on 5Live Sport from 7. Pep Guardiola said his side need to play without fear. In that level and against that teams, no matter the stage, the pressure is there, that's more than welcome. You cannot perform well without the pressure. And it's what it is, not the first time. It depends how we play, how we handle the moments always in this stadium, in the big stadiums. No matter it's here, in Barcelona, Milan, Enfield, always the bad moments that you have

to suffer will be there, try to reduce as less as possible. What is it going to take to turn this around? Do you need almost everything to go right? Yes, you have to make an almost perfect game, obviously the result is not good. Always we came with a more or less good result, but the result is not the perfect situation. We have to attack, we have to score goals, very with courage. You have to be yourself. What I learned in the years, like I was a football player with young players here, we didn't get results. At the moment we changed a bit the mentality. You have to play with incredible courage. He had to play to win the game. Pep Guardiola says Manchester City need to play with courage.

It's what we've seen from Celtic. It was arguably a more difficult task for them going to buy Munich, but Manchester City have that goal deficit, Andros, and they're heading to the Bernabeu. Yeah, I think that comment surprised me because the one thing City do have in the good or bad times is courage. They'll always try to play their own way even when maybe they shouldn't. So one thing they will have

is courage. Probably need a bit of luck going to the Bernabeu. We know how devastating those guys are on the counter-attack with the front three, front four, including Bellingham. So probably need another perfect performance the way Celtic did tonight to get through. And Dave, they're doing it slightly differently, Manchester City, with some success. There are lots more long passes from the medicine, now the all-time Premier League leader

in assists by a goalkeeper. That was a great start from the weekend. Denim Amamouche scored his first hat-trick of the season and I think he's going to provide a real threat to Real Madrid in that inside left channel but I think that the player to talk about that could really win the game for Manchester City is Nico González we all saw how he was commanding, read the play, won the ball back superbly well but on the ball was like a mini Rodri as Pep Guardiola said completed a hundred of his 103 passes but the base was a bit better from City, Gundogan was like a mini Rogeria as Pep Guardiola said, completed 100 of his 103 passes. But the base was a bit better from City,

Gunderwan was holding a lot more in that game and Rico Lewis was moving in there. So instead of City having one or two holding midfields, it looked three at times, but obviously Rico Lewis had that ability to move forward. So that's gonna be super important, but we all know how good that Real Madrid are on the counter attack.

And especially someone like Kylian Mbappe that's coming into form in 2025 for Real Madrid, scored 13 goals in 2024 in a lot more games and scored 13 goals so far in 2025. It's going to be such a difficult job for Manchester City but I think Nico Gonzalez, if City are to win it, expect him to be man of the match. Do you think he starts him though Dave or do you think it's probably too soon, too big of a game? I think he has to Andros, I really do. I think it's one of those positions where we've seen so many of the city midfielders rotate there but not have the solidity of Rodri.

Andros, how much of a difference do you think Gonzalez can make? I'm looking at Michael Richards' quotes from match of the day two on Sunday, and he said he gave City the control they've been missing with and without the ball. 100 percent. And I think that position, somebody who is good with the ball and good without the ball, it's so hard to find. That's why Chelsea pay 100 odd million for their number sixes. Kovacic's good with the ball. Stone's good without the ball. They have players that can do one or the other, but Rodri is one of the only players in the world football that can

do both and it looks like they've found another player who can do that in Rodri's absence. Pat, we've seen from Manchester City glimpses this season of the Old City. We certainly saw it in the 4-0 defeat of Newcastle at the weekend. Can they bring that to the Burnabout tomorrow? Yeah, do you know what? We know Real Madrid games can be mad. They can be absolutely wild in the Champions League. So what you want is chaos. And the chaos that you used to get...

Manchester City never wanted before because they wanted control, no you want chaos and I think the one team you can get that against is sometimes Real Madrid so yeah I've watched it with Chelsea there, I've watched out certainly Manchester City games there so yeah not writing this one off at all. This one could go either way Look, they're my big favorites But is it finished with the quality of players at Manchester City? Oh god, the new lads coming in? No, absolutely not Anything could happen live commentary on five live sport from seven o'clock

Wednesday night. Thank you very much to Ian Dennis, Pat Neven, Andros Townsend, Wednesday night. Thank you very much to Ian, Dennis, Pat, Neven, Andros, Townsend, Statman, Dave and Christian Falk. Next up on the Football Daily on Wednesday, it's the debrief with Mark Chapman with reaction to Real Madrid, Manchester City and Aston Villa Liverpool. Bye bye.