Football Daily - Champions League Debrief: Mbappé hat-trick dumps Man City out

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Mark Chapman has reaction as Real Madrid beat Manchester City in the UEFA Champions League. Hear from Pep Guardiola, Paul Robinson and correspondent John Murray. Also catch up with Arne Slot and Unai Emery after Aston Villa held Liverpool to a 2-2 draw in the Premier League.00:15 Man City dumped out by Real Madrid 05:35 Pep Guardiola INTERVIEW 15:20 Looking ahead to the Round of 16 draw 17:30 Aston Villa hold Premier League leaders Liverpool 18:45 Arne Slot INTERVIEW 28:15 Unai Emery INTERVIEWBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this week: Fri 21 Feb 1945 Portugal v England in the Women's Nations League, Sat 22 Feb 1500 Arsenal v West Ham, Sat 22 Feb 1730 Aston Villa v Chelsea starting on 5 Sports Extra, Sun 23 Feb 1400 Newcastle v Nottingham Forest, Sun 23 Feb 1630 Man City v Liverpool.

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Real Madrid 3 Manchester City one on the night, 6-3 on aggregate. Paul Robinson, former England goalkeeper, watched it alongside our correspondent John Murray and look, there's a huge gulf between those two teams on the field and actually where the two teams are at probably in terms of being built at the moment. Yeah, and it was clear to see. I mean, you watch that game, these two teams that played each other last year, it was almost role reversal, the way that Manchester City overpowered Real Madrid

and how strong that they looked. But the difference in the two sides today was so, so obvious to see. And Real Madrid haven't improved that much that they've gone above Manchester City. It's how far Manchester City have actually dropped off and the lack of self-belief in that side. And they use the word susceptible and vulnerable.

That's what they look like as a defence. Every single time Real Madrid got the ball, they looked scared. There was holes all over in this Manchester City defence. They were pulled apart. There was no confidence, no communication. And they're certainly a different Manchester City team to the one that played in the Champions League last year. And because I know your notes are meticulous John, how many of the team that played there last year started tonight? And the reason for asking that is really twofold. One, a little bit how much City are in transition but also secondly how maybe

some of the players the older players maybe have have regressed over the last 12 months. I'm looking Stones, Diaz, Guardiola, Bernardo Silva, Foden, that's eight isn't it? Or in Edison. So there we are, about half the team. Okay, all right, maybe a little bit more and therefore when you have No Harland who is injured, when you have De Bruyne on the bench, when Carl Walker has been moved on, when Gundogan has been brought back, when Bernardo Silva is, you know, maybe not quite at the peak that he was last year. That sort of sums it up, really. They're miles off it. They really are. I mean, we've seen them lose games in the Premier League

that we wouldn't have expected them to lose. But you look at their record in the Champions League, you know, losing away at Sporting Lisbon 4-1, the loss at Juventus, not the Juventus team that we've come to know over the years, the way that they capitulated away at Paris Saint-Germain. There's been signs of their form and results coming back in the league, but I think tonight was a real highlight, as in a bad highlight. It highlighted all the flaws that they've got.

They look so devoid of confidence when a team takes it to them and attacks them. When a team sits in a low block against Manchester City and gives them the respect that we've seen so many teams do over the years, they like that, they can cope with that, they've got the players that can unpick the lock that can get through, you know, the traps that teams set and they'll get results. But actually when we've seen Manchester City at the most vulnerable is when teams press them and they attack them and the defense tonight with Husanoff, I know we keep picking on him but he just looks so exposed and I think that's down to Pep Guardiola's team selection Playing him there at right back. He hasn't looked comfortable since his debut and at right back tonight

He was a player that was picked on for want of a better phrase by Real Madrid Every time they got the ball they looked to change the play they knew in Vinicius jr. That he had the beating of him all night Particularly if you have Rico Lewis on the bench Yeah, I mean we spoke before the game didn't we about his team selection Nathan Akay obviously has had an illness wasn't 100% fit he's got a natural fullback in Rico Lewis who actually in hindsight now you look you look at the game and you think well he's actually got the pace that Vinicius Juniors got maybe might have the

experience you know the others had in that team. On my team sheet I had John Stones playing there before the game, but again he surprised us because they warmed up and Stones was playing in that right back area and I just think there's players in there. But then what side of the argument would you be on there then? Well, the sort of argument that is maybe from Pep Guardiola that he is young and therefore the second time he comes back or the next time he comes back to the Bernabeu it will be easier because he's there for this experience.

Therefore he's young and you have to accept mistakes and naivety and discomfort at times. Or another way of looking at it, hang hang on you've just spent 40 million on him so if you spend 40 million on him should he be able to cope with that situation yeah with all with Real Madrid or was the route was was it a recruitment with the future in mind I've got no doubt that he's a talented player and he is going to be a good defender for Manchester City I think he was scarred in all honesty from his debut I don't think he's a talented player and he's going to be a good defender for Manchester City. I think he was scarred in all honesty from his debut. I don't think he's settled and he showed me nothing since his debut to suggest, oh yeah, I'll put him in it right back tonight in the

Bernabeu against Vinicius Junior because I think he can do a job. I've got no doubt that they've bought potential for the future and a top quality young defender that a lot of teams across Europe were looking at, but I think the problem that Pep's got, maybe he's he's not ready now you know you look at the players that Pep needed in January he needed players that were ready now yes he'd be better for the experience yes he'll learn from all this but Manchester City they're out the Champions League he needed a fix a short-term fix whether that be a player that's ready in the future or not Kuzunov at the moment doesn't seem to be that fit that he needed. Here's Pep Guardiola.

The plan was to extend the result that we brought from Manchester as long as possible and of course we conceded the goal so early, the injury from John and a little bit what happened this season. We could not defend well the movement that he reacted in Bapest, you know, from being stopped and attacking the space within the fan. Anyways, it was a bit more difficult. But the best team won. They deserve it.

We make, always we have done a good, they group a stage in Champions League seasons, arriving finals and winning and losing, but semi-finals, quarter-finals, we have really well. But this season in all competitions we have not been good. And I have the feeling that the previous season, the fourth time, we were better than them in the previous three, but this time they have been better. And learn. This is the benchmark in this competition, that team, the physicality. It's a team that I have my feeling that when we play against them, every season I've been

better but this season is better because they can run like I've always done with the pillows up front but they can make long positions when they make high pressing. His dynamic and movement when we defend deep, solidarity, defend really well. So yeah, they deserve it. His dynamic and movement when we defend deep, solidarity defend really well. So Yeah, they deserve it. Let's learn and What you have to do is accept it and move forward. Can this Manchester City team, does it need to be rebuilt or can these players build together and get better?

We have time. We have time to think about it. Now it's easy to say it but now we have 30-40 games for the Premier League to try to next season to be here and to improve. Nothing is eternal so we have done nothing. We have been unbelievable so we cannot win the Premier League and Efeaka of course is there but we are in the Champions League now we have 30 games and we have to be top four top five I don't know what will be the to try to be here again yeah of course. You said in commentary in the first half that they looked like a team that Manchester City would normally play against at the Etihad. Yeah we've seen so many games in the Premier League haven't we? When we see teams play the way that Pep plays and they try and beat them at their own game,

but they get outclassed and they're nowhere near the level of Manchester City. Manchester City are dominant, they dominate possession, they control possession. This is Manchester City I'm talking about at the peak of their powers. And they cut you open, they create chances and they score at will. Where you get a team that will go to the Etihad and try and do that and play that type of football against them, that's how they look tonight Manchester City in the Bernabeu against Real Madrid. They look so inferior. Yeah, and you know, think of some of those performances, some of those matches,

some of those recent matches where Manchester City have played against Manchester United and they've done to Manchester United what Real Madrid have done to Manchester City tonight. But, you know, however long we watch football, we kind of think that it's gonna last forever, don't we? And it doesn't. And do you think that's actually the point here? Because we can talk about Harlan not being on the team sheet. We can talk about Kusanoff having, you know,

his Champions League debut, but is it actually more than that? Is it the waning of some of the players who have been so crucial for them over the years? And it's been the downturn since November. Yeah I think there's a combination of a lot of things. I think he's regretting not strengthening the side in the summer. You see how they went heavily in the January market. He normally does that every season, rejuvenates the squad, rejuvenates the side and I think it's been a very quick downturn hasn't it? Like I say, November was the time when they were at the peak of their powers and now all of a sudden they're trying

to bring new players in. But what you said about, what Pep said about going on, look we believe we've still got a chance we can do this. He's not going to sit there and say, look we're really struggling by the way, Harlan's got no chance, de Bruyne is not fit, Ake's been sick, Grealish is carrying a knock, Doku's not really fit. And what told us that the players came out to run on the pitch at the end of the game. There was only Kovacic and Kevin de Bruyne and Rico Lewis that actually did the running. So that would suggest that all the other players on the Manchester City bench

weren't really fit enough to take part in this. With hindsight, we would say that 180 million pounds or whatever it was that was spelt in January should have been spent last summer. That was the time to integrate it when everything was cruising along so smoothly for them and they've done what they've done. And now, to spend it now, you've kind of moved

into Manchester United territory, haven't you? You're bringing in players for large sums of money that you're trying to fit into a team with fragile confidence. It is remarkable. I mean if City fans haven't had a bad enough night already, the comparison you've just done is well, you know, gone. Well, but I'm also saying that people always talk about, well this is going to take years and years and years before all this changes it works both ways I think I think it is you can change things quickly I think you'll see that with this Manchester City side

We know where they are at the moment, but actually there is shoots of recovery You see the Premier League performances You see the performance against Newcastle last week the free-flowing attacking goalscorer Manchester City that we are guilty of comparing them to now. You know they're not far off that with time on the training ground now obviously out the Champions League so early in the year that they're not used to and that massive Club World Cup that they'll be aiming for at the end of the season. It does make me laugh by the way with Real Madrid once again it feels like every year we come here and they're moaning and grumbling about Carlo Ancelotti

he's not this he's not that he's not the other and he just goes serenely along. Lesbrit Spanish football journalist Manuel Sanchez then are there a lot of people in Madrid moaning and groaning? I think people in in Madrid are really happy with what happened tonight because Real Madrid fans really wanted to get this kind of result against not only Man City but against Pep Guardiola. I think the reaction at the end when they were singing Pep, stay, Pep, stay, it was the biggest, one of the biggest victories in a long time for them because they always want to win against Guardiola because of those memories when he was managing Barcelona a long time ago.

You watched them tonight and you watch how Kylian Mbappe performs and the hat trick and you watch how they all link up together, Rodrigo and Vinicius and G-Berlin. And you sort of think, Manuel, how have they managed to lose in the Burnabout in the Champions League this season because they were so dominant? Yeah, there were a lot of doubts about how Kylian Mbappé was going to fit there because in the end you were signing one of the best players to play in the left back when you already have one of the best players in the world that plays in that position. So it was a big doubt and many people were thinking like, oh maybe they are just signing him because

they've been chasing him for so long time but maybe they don't need him. Maybe they need a player like number nine, like Erling Haaland. And now Kylian Mbappe is so comfortable in that position. He has scored 27 games this season and we still have four months to come. But I think they've called him today the four magnificent players. So I think that's the best definition of them and how Jules Bellingham when he's fit and he's able to play box to box when he's not injured and when he has had time to rest after the last season, which

was very important for him, is key for keeping that team balance. So I think with those four, if they are fit and if they are playing, Real Madrid can beat anyone without even have to be worried about what's going on on the back with the defensive players because those four players are so good right now and they are so synchronised, it's like they don't need anyone else to just win matches. Is Atletico Madrid, because the winners of Real Madrid will play either Atletico Madrid or Leverkusen, so Xabi Alonso's Leverkusen. Would they not want Atletico Madrid?

I have many Real Madrid friends and I don't think for what I've seen in Champions League against Atletico de Madrid the final in 2014 which was decided by that goal of Sergio Ramos in the 93rd minute, the Champions League final in 2016 that went to the suit-out, there was a tie in 2016-17 if I'm not wrong that Real Madrid won the first leg 3-0, but then Atletico almost came back to a magnificent play by Karim Benzema. I don't think any Real Madrid fan

or Atletico Madrid fan wants to play each other because they are always very tight matches. Simeone knows Real Madrid very well, and Celotti knows At knows Real Madrid very well. Ancelotti knows Atletico de Madrid very well. It's one of the most intense and tense matches. So I don't think any of them want to see each other so early in the competition. Well, thank you, Manuel.

Manuel Sanchez, Spanish journalist with us. Although, Jude Bellingham has just told TNT, joining Atletico would be something. It'd be two really special games. If we play like we did tonight, we'd have a really good chance against any team. Other scores in the Champions League tonight it finished goalless between Borussia Dortmund and Sporting Lisbon. Borussia Dortmund go through 3-0 on aggregate. Paris Saint-Germain thrashed Brest 7-0, 10-0 on aggregate and PSV are through to the last 16 as well they beat Juventus after

extra time. Do you know what John you look at how this last 16 is going to pan out and that bracket of Real Madrid or Bayern will get Atletico or Bayer Leverkusen is without doubt the most mouthwatering of those brackets but then Liverpool will get either Paris Saint-Germain or Benfica, Barcelona will get the other one of Paris Saint-Germain or Benfica, Aston Villa get Borussia Dortmund or Club Bruges, Lille the other side there who would get Dortmund or Club Bruges and Arsenal are going to get Feyenoord or PSV Inter would get the other one of a fire Nord or PSV there are some there are some great games lined up here

Well, that's the thing for you know, for people who don't realize this when that draws made on Friday it's then all planned out so it's like the Wimbledon draw and I would say that there is it's shaping up that there is one half of the draw that looks on paper a good deal more difficult than the other and I would be thinking that Arsenal and Aston Villa and Liverpool would want to find themselves in the bottom half of the draw not the top half. Okay and of course once it's all panned out in one bracket after Friday that means you don't have to go to Zurich or Neon or wherever you go for every draw then. No it just means that he can plan his trips for the few weeks in advance.

I beg your pardon. Thank you very much. I'll just get what I'm given. The EuroLeagues on the Football Daily. Thursdays on the Football Daily join the EuroLeagues team as we bring you the latest from across the continent with a host of top European football journalists. It's OK to be able to play the ball but you need to actually fight for the ball as well. That's what he wants of his players. I think that maybe it would be the club that could revive his self-esteem and his confidence and I think it could do wonders for the player to really grow. The EuroLeagues, only on the Football Daily.

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12 stories of extraordinary young people from across history. There's a real sense of urgency in them that resistance has to be mounted, it has to be mounted now. The game of the night came at Villa Park. Chances are plenty for both teams. It finished Aston Villa 2, Liverpool 2. They have an eight point lead now at the top of the table to Liverpool having played a game more than Arsenal. Maz Faruqi was lucky enough to witness this. And there was a rueful smile on the face of Arna slot

in the latter stages of this match on the touchline here at Villa Park, Mark, because he will definitely believe there were opportunities for his side to go in and win it in the second half, although moments as well where they could have lost it. Daniel Malin very close at the end for a third goal for Villa. Jacob Ramsey had an effort ruled out for offside as well

in the second half. Villa had gone into the second half ahead after Salah had put Liverpool 1-0 up, Telemans and then Watkins putting the home side ahead at the break. But there was much more urgency to Liverpool's game in the second half. A deflected Alexander-Arnold strike drew them level before then a glorious chance for Darwin Nunes in particular for a Liverpool third before then those late chances for Villa when the game really opened up. Jota Gray's the crossbow of the striker's world for Liverpool in the second half.

So drop points for Liverpool and Villa once more making it very difficult here at home for the league's best. Here at Villa Park it's finished Aston Villa two, Liverpool two. And let's get the thoughts of Arna slot with Mark Scott. Well, Arna, watching that, it was a great game. It ebbed and flowed. What was your take on it? The same that it was a great game, it ebbed and flowed, what was your take on it?

The same, it was a great game. Going in at half time being 2-1 down, it didn't feel as if the game went for us like that. So we, I was disappointed with going in. Of course we conceded just before half time but felt we were playing really well. And then we came back second half scoring two-two, got some good chances to make it three-two and in the end the ball could have gone in and then we would have lost it. So a great game to watch, two teams played really well, but I'm not happy with the results if I look at all the chances we had today.

You just touched on it, did you not match your usual very high standards at both ends of the pitch today, both defensively and attacking wise? Yes, I did feel that we defended really well because I can't come up with a lot of their chances. So the only thing I'm not happy with is if you play a big game, an away game at Villa, that's a difficult one. And you need to have a neutral set piece balance or a positive one but we conceded one didn't score one and then it's then it's

hard but still we were able to get a result and because we scored two very good goals and yeah I think we've created more than enough chances to score the winner but final minutes it could have gone their way as well. I know that there was talk about maybe there being a bit of nerves in the Wolves game that you won at the weekend. It didn't feel like there was any nerves or anxiety today. It was just an end-to-end game? Yeah, but there wasn't nerves at Wolves as well. We've played Wolves away, we beat them 2-1 in the final ten minutes, it was tough for us as well. So if you defend the lead,

it's tough. But all of a sudden now people talk about nerves but for me it isn't these players are used to this they're used to playing for trophies for for for for winning a league or winning a Champions League or winning an FA Cup so would be quite fast already to have some nerves there's only 12 games to go today we played really well but that also has to do with the style of play of the of the other team because that has to do with the style of play of the other team because that's totally different than the style of play of Everton and Wolves or Plymouth.

And if you look at the table it's still pretty good reading, eight points clear, that's not bad is it? No of course, although Arsenal has a game in hand but every team has to play every team twice and now this week for us is Villa away and City away yeah you know that stuff but again we didn't lose again in a way game in a tough fixture where in my opinion if I look at all the chances we had compared to them we deserve more and that's the only thing we can blame ourselves that a few times too much now we didn't got what we deserved and we must not make a habit out of that.

Let's talk to Mo Stewart from the Anfield Wrap who is alongside Maz at Villa Park evening. Good evening Mark. Is your manager there a lot calmer than you were during that? I mean my first reaction to that game was a big sigh and I'm not sure if that's more drop points or me trying to get my breath back because it was a ridiculous game of football. I don't think either team had control of it for any longer than three or four minutes at a time and yeah I kind of tend to agree in some ways with Arna slot I do think we definitely created enough chances to win the game but I'm probably not as hot

on the defense as he was. I think both Villa goals came from Liverpool defensive mistakes and the control that he seems to crave in his football seems to have been missing for a good couple of games in a row now. I'm trying to trace it back to there was a game where, I tell you when it was, it was a champion, it was the Champions League game away to Girona when it first felt that you didn't have that sort of calm control that you'd had in plenty of games. Would that be fair? Is that the right game I'm thinking of? I think so, I think so and the interesting thing about that game is it came just off the back of the Newcastle game in which

we should have won and lost it at the last minute and that first sense of real disappointment, a point dropped and a feeling of well, in the end it's a good result but maybe that's one we might regret later on in the season. And yeah, that's kind of been the catalyst. There's been great performances between then and now, obviously away at West Ham was fantastic, away at Spurs in the league was fantastic. But like you say, the control has not quite been there in the same manner. Liverpool are still eight points clear at the top of the Premier League, so it's hard to really be too disappointed. But I think you have to recognise the fact that there's been times where Liverpool have

been in good positions in the Premier League title race at this stage of the season and then had these kind of results and you think, well's okay we're still at the top and then when you get to the end of the season you look back on these results and say oh well maybe those were the ones that cost us. So are you of the mentality at the moment that whilst you're eight points clear of Arsenal if they win on Saturday it's down to five that would be their game in hand but you have City away are you concerned that a gap could be down to two very quickly is that your mentality or not? I mean the gap can always change I think

the gap has fluctuated quite a bit over the last few times but I don't believe the Arsenal are going to be perfect between now and the end of the season So I think that does give me a little bit of comfort and also it's weird Isn't it mode because two midweek games under lights at Villa and obviously at Everton and I think Normally go a point from both is fine. Wouldn't you normally I mean I think a point from both is fine, wouldn't you? Normally, I mean, I think sometimes you need a little bit of distance from those things. So in the immediate aftermath of Everton, obviously conceding the goal in the manner we did,

it was difficult to look at it any other way than two points dropped. But now taking a step back, you think, yes, it's a difficult away game. We've stayed unbeaten. And maybe I'll feel the same about this game in a couple of days' time. But at the same time, I do think that draws can become killers in these situations.

You do need to be able to continue to get wins. And now having two draws in the space of three games, it does put pressure on us to go to Manchester City and to maybe get a result. Although, judging by what they were up to tonight maybe that's not as difficult as it originally was. Well, I mean, yeah, goodness knows how you judge Manchester City after tonight. To be honest with you, having watched both these games, just on the attacking options, there were plenty of chances. I mean, Liverpool had a lot more chances than Villa really when you look at it. 17 shots tonight, only

three on target. Villa had nine, four on target. Does a lack of composure amongst some of your forwards worry you? In some ways yes and in some ways no and it feels a little bit unfair to kind of treat Jota and Nunes differently but I think the thing is Jota missed as many good chances, in fact Jota missed more good chances than Nunes did but it never looked like it affected him, he was always ready to go, always looked like he believed that the next one would go in whereas Nunes missed his chance and you could tell that he was in his head for the rest of the game and it affected the rest of his performance and I think it actually helped the momentum swing back towards Aston Villa because I don't think Liverpool had another really good opportunity after that point.

And the end of the game, it was very much Villa making the play. But that psychology, Mo, is interesting because not only is it in Nunes' head, it's in all your heads, isn't it? And actually, I would... Amaz will have seen it as well from her angle, the sort of reaction of Slop and the Liverpool bench to a Nunes miss chance felt slightly more angry, didn't it Maz, I think? Than the reactions to some of the Jota ones.

I think, I think so, definitely. I mean, it's so often that we see sort of Darwin Nunes almost score the most difficult chance and how he didn't even manage to keep that one in particular that Mo's talking about on target. On a slot, there was no concealing his frustration and the body language. If we can see it where we are here, there's no way that Darwin Nunes won't have been aware of that either. Absolutely. I think he knows what the narrative is around him right now, and I think that's part of it. It almost feels a little bit like he's playing

for his Liverpool career. He knows that he needs to have at least one or two big moments, big contributions, if he wants to stay here. And I think he is also aware of the fact that when something goes against him at the moment, that whereas the fan base within the stadiums I think he was also aware of the fact that when something goes against him at the moment, whereas the fan base within the stadiums are often cheering his name sometimes, even when he doesn't do things that deserve it, but the fan base outside of the stadium very much

feel like the patience has run out with some of the things that he's doing when he's done. He's a human, so it's understandable that that would be in his head but it's not really helping his cause and like I say the great attackers they're the ones who can completely forget about a miss chance and Jota has that gene, Salah has that gene and don't think Nunes has and that might ultimately spell the end of his Liverpool career I think. Mo thank you very much for coming on look after those nerves. Thanks Mark. Mo Stewart from the Anfield wrapped with us, let's get the Villa perspective on things, here's Unai Emery.

I think it's fair, the result for both teams because more or less they had chances, we had the last minute of chances to win even, but they were always threatening our behind, threatening our goalkeeper and they scored two goals, they had another two chances, very good chances. But I think the match was a good match, we played and competed very well but of course now we are in a level, we are not happy with one result like Liverpool like that because we want as well to compete in the teams like Liverpool and try to beat them and try to improve and to get better. It was a very attacking line-up that you started with today to take the game to Liverpool. How do you think that Asensio and Rashford played on their first start? Good, they played good and they are adapting fantastic. They played to the 60-65 minute

I think is another step forward they did. Getting confident, getting minute, knowing the players, knowing the idea, trying to compete in our style and they played good. We talked about Arnaz Slot having some frustrations at watching his sides finishing, as did Unai Emery towards the end of that second half because Villa had some good chances to win that, didn't have as many did they Mazz but they had some good ones. They had some really good ones there was that chance for Mal and just the wrong side of the left post right at the end of stoppage time at the end of the second half. There was that Jacob Ramsey chance that was ruled out for offside as well and VAR obviously had a check.

But I think for Unai Emery, Liverpool started this match like an absolute train. We were saying, weren't we, in the first half, all the action was going on in and around Aston Villa's final third. So the way they kind of got their way back into this game, and you mentioned Marcus Rashford there, there was some nice link-up play with him and some of his new Villa teammates, and I was here for the match when Aston Villa beat Manchester City. They were really impressive in that match, and again, nights like this under these lights here at Villa Park, they made it really, really difficult for Liverpool, and I think they did deserve something from this game definitely. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. Also out now is 72 Plus, the EFL podcast with Aaron Paul and Jobe Makhnoff.

Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful British manager of all time. British manager of all time. Southpaw has won the European Cup for Manchester United! So how did this apprentice toolmaker from Glasgow become one of the most iconic figures in sporting history? His strength, his character, his determination, the fight in him. Ferguson was every department. He can be persuasive, he can be charming, he can be frightening. Go down as the best, as simple as that.

I'm Kelly Cates and this is Sporting Giants' Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to feel, but I couldn't feel. Listen on BBC Sounds. I'm Nicola Coughlin. This is history's youngest heroes. Rebellion, risk and the radical power of youth. She thought, right, I'll just do it. She thought about others rather than herself.

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