Football Daily - Destination New Jersey: Club World Cup reflections, Ecuador & Canadian Soccer

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

Kelly Cates and Rory Smith continue our countdown to the 2026 World Cup. Nedum Onuoha joins just under a year away from the start of the World Cup in the USA, Canada, and Mexico.After the chaos of the Club World Cup, the panel discuss the extreme weather in the States, the Americanisation of the sport, player workload, and how politics could shape the tournament.South American Football Journalist Marcela Mora y Araujo joins to give the lowdown on dark horses Ecuador, and CEO of Canada Soccer Kevin Blue has the track on Canada ahead of a home tournament for Jesse Marsch’s side.Timecodes: 02:45 Club World Cup reflections 07:20 Extreme weather 11:50 Affordability of the World Cup 13:20 Americanisation of the sport 20:00 Player welfare 23:45 What are we most looking forward to? 26:40 Dark horses Ecuador 28:40 Marcela Mora y Araujo on Ecuador 37:15 Venezuela to qualify? 39:35 Kevin Blue on Canadian soccer5 Live commentaries: Fri 5 Sep 1930 Chelsea v Man City in the WSL, Sat 6 Sep 1330 Arsenal v London City Lionesses in the WSL, Sat 6 Sep 1700 England v Andorra in World Cup Qualifying, Sun 7 Sep 1200 Liverpool v Everton in the WSL, Tue 9 Sep 1945 Serbia v England in World Cup Qualifying.

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is the Football Daily podcast with Kelly Cates. Hello and welcome to the Football Daily podcast with me, Kelly Cates, as we continue our countdown to the 26 World Cup, 320 days away from the World Cup final in New Jersey. We'll look back on the Club World Cup as a dress rehearsal for next year's main event, for better and for worse, and we'll look at Ecuador's golden generation.

The CEO of Canada Soccer will also. join us later on and alongside me. Rory Smith and Nader Manua is with us for the first part of the show. Rory, we've already started on our journey to New Jersey. What are you enjoying most about it? Yeah, we've been to what was in Uzbekistan already, Kelly? We've, yeah, we've covered ground. We've travelled the world. Nadem, first experience of destination in New Jersey. It's still a long way to go until we get there. But once you start working on World Cup programs, it starts to feel real and imminent. Yeah, I would agree. Do you say, 282 days is that what the number was that's going to be sticking my mind now I think I'll wake up

tomorrow that's 281 until it's that new year's final but it is it's going to be like shawshank redemption you're going to be carving dates in the side of the wall you know it does obviously you know time we don't we all know how it works but being at the last world cup there's so many things which I thought would definitely have changed by this point I thought like messy would have retired Ronaldo would have retired this guy had retired there's no way they'll be involved in the next world cup this next world cup's going to be a whole new generation oh there's still playing and it's coming up very very soon. So yeah, we'll be seeing the same faces again, won't we?

But when you hear the commentary of 2020, the final in 2022 and Mbapé and Goetzer and in yester, you get a chill down your spot. Those are the moments. Those are the most iconic moments in football. Yeah, I agree. I think for myself, and maybe the same for others, especially some of the listeners,

like your footballing memories are sort of built around certain World Cops. Like for me, the one that I probably saw more clearly than any other It was France 98. I think I wanted to say like I'm interested in 94, but looking back, I was probably, I was like seven years old. So I think I probably watched a lot of reruns after the event. But France 98 was the one that I really lived for,

seeing some of the players within that, who ended up, you know, somehow playing against as well a few years later. That's the one that sticks out to me. And I think the more recent ones as well, like that blockbuster final in Qatar to finish. Like those are some truly iconic moments, as you say. France 98 was a great World Cup as well. So it would be one that would stick in your memory.

If you'd been seven for France, 98, that would have stuck in your memory more than 94 did, definitely. So it's the first one of these shows we've done since the Club World Cup, which is, I mean, dress rehearsal for the main event, maybe. Maybe just a little kind of toe in the water along that way. So, Rory, you were there. Thoughts on how it all went? There were some hiccups, Kelly. I think that's probably fair to say. There were some organisational learnings.

Bumps in the road. that they'd some learnings the working groups will have reported back that there were certain things that needed to be um needed to be smoothed over i think what you got the sense of in being in in in manhattan immediately after the club world cup final you've got a little bit of a glimpse of what it will be like when when the biggest show on earth rolls into town and i think america to an extent isn't quite prepared for what's going to hit it i think there is still this of having worked with americans for a long long time there is still this like abiding belief that the Olympics is the biggest sporting event in the world and I love the Olympics

it's amazing but the World Cup is a whole different order of thing and the that will be more pronounced even more so next year when it's when it's expanded to 48 teams

you saw after that game between Chelsea and PSG kind of blue shirts of both like the the royal blue of Chelsea I guess and the slightly darker but the navy of PSG you saw them everywhere

in New York in the hours afterwards, it felt like something big had happened. And if you kind of take that and turn it into, I don't know, 100,000 Brazilians or the entire population of Argentina or whatever it might be, I think you get a little glimmer of what it will feel like. And I think it will feel, for all the problems,

for all the issues, for all the politicisation of it, it will feel really, really special just because it's a country that is embracing football in lots and lots of different ways, that is going to get this real taste of what kind of 21st century football is and it will see that

I think they might be expected in 1994 and I think football is a lot bigger than that now well that yeah that was what I was going to ask and I was going to ask you because obviously Nadam doesn't remember it

so in comparison to 94 then is it significantly bigger is the World Cup kind of show coming to town much more of an event than it was even when Diana Ross famously took a penalty.

Well, I do remember, I mean, I could see you, Kelly, like me, thinking Nedden was distrustingly young when he said that his first world truck was 1998. It's ridiculous. Yeah, I think there's probably two big shifts. One is within the states itself where for all that, I think often Americans don't see like the, because they're so in it, they maybe don't see the growth quite as clearly as you can from the outside, but it has become this much bigger scale event, anything to do

with football. So there is a massive ground swell of kind of support there that is way. waiting for this event. And the other is the ease of travel. Certainly kind of in terms of like the technology of it, so far more flights, it's much easier to get to the US. We're much more kind of accustomed to traveling to see football. If you look at Champions League Finals,

I was thinking about the 1994 Champions League Final today, in fact, Kelly, which is the sort of way I spend my time, which is that iconic AC Milan destruction of Barcelona's dream team. I'm not sure the stadium was full, because in the 90s, in the Champions League final, The stadium didn't always sell out, whereas now that's ridiculous. Of course the stadium sells out

for the Champions League final. And I think in 1994, you didn't have the massive movements of people, whether that's because of kind of national economies or to the ease of travel or whatever. So that has shifted considerably. It might be offset a bit by the travel bans and by the kind of capriciousness of the Trump regime.

That is a bigger problem. We don't, God knows who he'll be letting into the United States by June next year. We might all be banned. a friend of mine's been talking to a lot of the organising committees in the host cities and a lot of their focus is on is on how they kind of maximise the income to talk about the corporates and how do we make this a kind of luxury event

a five-star hospitality event and he's been sort of saying to them well look this is all well and good but what are you going to do when 100,000 Argentinians appear without tickets does that's the World Cup that's what happens you need to and it is this mass movement of people even in Qatar you know the way the South Americans and the North Africans in particular their travel to Qatar was astonishing. And I'd like to think that at some point

the message will get through to the US that you have to have the contingencies for just the sheer number of people who turn up. And I suppose that the stadiums are all kind of set up and you'll know as much as anyone about this, Nadine. They're all sort of set up for the tailgating parties and that huge amounts of people to come and take part in that kind of pre-match sort of excitement

and all the kind of everything that goes with that. But when you look at the Club World Cup and you look at what some of the players said about playing there. Marcus Urenti said after Atlatico Madrid were beaten 4-0 by PSG in California. It was so hot that his toenails hurt. Like that's, I don't think I've ever been so hot that my toenails hurt. Yeah, but it's a valid point, though, because playing outdoor sports in the USA in the summer

does bring that level of, like, stress to it. And I think the way that they tend to counter that on a year-to-year basis in the US is to be playing games in evenings to be playing it where it's that little bit cooler where it's that little bit safer and that's the norm. You obviously understand there are going to be issues there

in terms of whether if you're in certain places where there's like lightning and so on like let's not forget as well there are parts where it's like in tornado alley oh like I remember landing in Chicago one time for a game in summer. You're playing football in somewhere

called tornado alley. I'm going to suggest that doesn't bode well. I landed in I think it was in O'Hare Airport and it says I'll be wary because this is now like tornado season and everyone's just walking about like normal I'm like okay this is what it's going to be so it does have its sort of problems

but I'm sure they're going to figure out ways to try and do it but I think because of the audience that wants to be grabbed by sort of playing games at certain times as we saw at the Club World Cup there will be more issues than say we are used to seeing at a World Cup and I think the weather side of things is something that does need to be discussed

but you'd guess that would have been discussed beforehand and I think where like the World Cup in Qatar for all its issues, I think from an infrastructure standpoint, they dealt with it pretty well because a lot of the stadiums were, let's say, covered, there was air condition. I remember being at the opening ceremony in the opening game. I'm like, why is it so cold in here? It's because there's aircon coming down just by my feet.

Like, okay, that's different. And this woke up itself, like I'm really conflicted, to be honest, because I believe, because we're talking about this from the perspective of America, obviously there's Canada, there's Mexico as well. But there are so many things which will be positive within it, but then there are other things which sort of American will be forced upon, say, the audience, and I don't know if it's necessarily going to work.

Because even on the way home before this show today, I was listening to a podcast, and we were talking about, say, the NFL restarting, and they said, oh, there's a great value ticket for this Chicago versus whatever game. Get it now at $290 for a ticket. I was like, I thank you pardon. So how's that going to work for, say,

people who want to travel over there to watch games of football? And Rory made a good point about the travel being accessible, but all of a sudden you're having to catch fly between places and I would I think I hold my hands up and say most people that travel to world Cups are not what you'd call the average everyday fan and to add more context to it again I think for these World Cups and so on I think a lot of the crowd is held up by people local to that sort of area whether it's that state whether it's going to be that country

because you found that in Doha a lot of people from within that section of the Middle East we're making up a lot of, you know, what we'd see in the stands and so on. And I wonder if there's going to be that same appetite in the US. And because the point is there that it's 48 teams, no every game is a marquee game. And every game is going to be played with a bunch of people where everyone's very keen to go and see, even if it's in your area, because I've seen that myself,

like, MLS teams. Not every state could have an MLS team because now every state has enough people interested in being able to, like, support that side. So now when you bring in, say it's Jordan against, you know, like a West African team or something in Canada, Kansas, how does that work? How's that going to look?

How many people from Jordan or, say, the other country are going to be able to be there? And if they can't be there, who's going to this game itself? How do you sell it? But again, from an interest, go on. That was going to say, that was something that actually really struck me during the Club World Cup. I was out for the last sort of 10 days, which was I was in Philly in New York. And that was fine. It was big teams.

The Brazilians traveled in numbers. And one of the massive advantages of the US, again, and I don't want to be overly political about this, but like, depending on what Trump is, making ice do. You will get big crowds of South Americans, second, third, fourth generation South Americans, Central Americans, probably most European countries, probably a lot of African countries have huge communities in all these major cities. Most of the games in the US are on the west or the East Coast. It's massive kind of diaspora populations, which will, there'll be a fantastic atmosphere at most of those games. I think also, sorry to jump in, but I think those

would be a fantastic atmosphere within the cities before the games, but I don't know if everybody would be able to afford to be going to those games themselves. Well, yeah, there is a different kind of, I don't want to sit here and defend American capitalism, but the, there is a kind of different paradigm for tickets. So I was talking to people, I was out there that I think the tickets for the final ended up being like $300, $400, which to European eyes, you're like, what are you doing? This is insane. But to Americans, it's quite good value because you will pay $10,000 for a Super Bowl ticket. You will pay possibly four figures for a regular season NFL game. That's just what it costs. They are so used to being at

the mercy of the market in that way that it doesn't have the same kind of, kind of doesn't appall them in the same way as it does us. But yeah, Nedham is completely right. There will be like a barrier to entry in terms of cost. I think the big thing that they're going to have to, there's a couple of things I'll have to work out from the Club World Cup and you'd hope FIFA have got the common sense to

take the learnings, Kelly, and realize that you have to kind of respond to them. One is they've got a, if you don't have a covered stadium with AC, you know, Atlanta is covered. I think either Dallas or Houston is covered. You can play indoors then.

not ideal because the fans have to get to the stadium and it'll be roasting hot, but at least inside the stadium you can control the temperature. You don't have to play those games in the evening, whether you want to or not. You just have to accept that you are in America and you've got to stop trying to appeal to the European TV audience. And the other thing is you have to have a little bit of humility and say, ultimately, if Uzbekistan are playing, I don't know, Sweden in Kansas, you might struggle for a crowd, so you don't have to reduce the ticket prices. And they are trying to make every game a great show as well.

That's one of the things that they're doing to try and make it more appealing, presumably to an American market. And I want to be quite careful here because I don't want to suggest that the way it's done in Europe is necessarily the way it should be done. But you wouldn't have a half-time show at Europe. I mean, most of the time you've just got like a pitch announcer on there with some kids taking penalties or whatever it is. You know, that's what half-time is.

And it's a time for people to go and get a drink or go and do. whatever but if but but in america they're and they'll have the drinks breaks which we're kind of used to it's not necessarily going to be extended into to four quarters but but those half-time shows are going to be really i know that they're just going to be interesting to watch from a european perspective i can feel your like inner disgust at a halftime show i listen you're also eurocentric no but it's not just europeans though i think that's well but that was that was my that was what i was trying not to do because it is to bring my own personal view on this because because Because I don't even like the pre-Champions League final performances and things like that.

I just don't get it. I want to hear fans and I want to see that kind of display. That is a personal opinion. And I accept that that's not necessarily going to work. What I want before every game is just Lincoln Park being really loud. That is why we go to football. Well, in Qatar, they had Chesney Hawks in his guitar pitch side. So, you know.

They have the amazing thing in Qatar. They've already hit that bar. who was the guy who sang I liked to move it to move it the theme tune to Madagastia that guy who got wheeled out before both semi-finals in Qatar

I agree with it I don't think anyone particularly likes it I'm not even sure the Americans want it Real to real to real. I don't even know

if the Americans want it but I think in the same way But it's how they do a big show isn't it? Well it's just I think there is an element of FIFA feel

they have to hit the notes so for the Club World Cup they wheeled out Michael Buffer. Look, no one loves Buffer more than me. And I think it's amazing that he is the world's preeminent shouter. That is, and in the, you know, the current attention economy, that's amazing that there's still no one better at shouting than he is. But I think it was just, it didn't really kind of do anything in the stadium at MetLife.

Like, no one really cared that Michael Buffer was there. But I think FIFA just kind of think... Just in case people aren't entirely sure who Michael Buffer is, you probably should give us a little sample of what he might sound like. Ladies and gentlemen, and boys and girls, he's that guy. He's the let's get ready to rumble man. Underwhelming.

He's very underwhelming. He's like America's PJ and Duncan. But I think they feel that is what sort of signifies main event, headline act to America and around the world. I think there may be as an audience for it, but you won't meet many Americans who are saying, like, what I really want is a half-time show that's been curated by Coldplay.

I can't wait for that. of the World Cup. They don't care about that. It's just, it's kind of what they do. So it happens. And to be honest, I mean, I've been to loads of Champions League finals and sent out sarcastic tweets about, oh, no one's watching the music. It doesn't do anybody any real harm. It would be better if they just like the fans sing. But is it worth getting cross about? I'm not sure. Well, it's a good question that. And this is a very good topic because I can relate this to MLS in itself. Because early on in MLS, everyone remembers those penalties where you start from the halfway line and stuff like that. Much better. Yeah. I like that.

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily go that far, but would that be the case if it wasn't for like ice hockey, for example? I think where MLS went wrong to a certain extent is they try to make the game of football more relatable to the other American sports. And for this FIFA World Cup now, as was the case with the club World Cup, they're almost trying to show to people from the outside because this isn't for people who watch football all the time. Because if you watch football all the time within you, you know the product is the game, not the stuff that surrounds it. You know, that's essentially what you watch for. You watch the highlights of that. then you've got more casual, for example, something like a Super Bowl, let's watch the halftime show, let's just go and do that. But the game is the most important thing.

And I think from when they get to bog down within that, I think ultimately they kind of missed the point, not least of all, because in reality, and this might be anecdotal. But when I played in the US, on my street where I live, most people hadn't watched football before and they ended up supporting me going to games and stuff. But they were shocked initially by how the game never really stops. They were expecting a game to last three, four hours. so they're used to like a game which has got constant breaks he's got this, it's got that you know here's a timeout here's this and they can't they struggle to comprehend how a game can work without that

so you can try and make it Americanized but the game is still the product so when they come to watch it oh Michael Buffer said let's get ready then someone sits down it's like well now what you know what I mean like how does how does this work why are they still playing why they're running around it's a completely different sport was really interesting was the individual warrons

It's borrowed from the NBA and it works brilliant in the NBA because there's five of them. Exactly. There's 11 people on a football team took ages. Don't do it. I get the logic

and it's worth trying and for subs. Let's do it for subs as well. It's just forced some of it. Some of it for me like to give the benefit of the doubt to the organisers they tried some things

which they might not try again at the World Cup to give the benefit of the doubt. They put games on pitches which aren't going to be as embedded as they say they will be in the summer. They've tried things in stadiums

and tried certain times maybe it was a test event, but I'd also not want to be a player involved in a test event when so much stuff he's actually proven to not work out. And maybe for the World Cup, we'll see a more refined version. But given the way that say you have someone like a Donald Trump in charge and someone like Infantino's very keen to keep him happy and, you know, he likes gold so much and it's about the show to him, I worry that like this World Cup, they're trying to make it have an American identity but maybe pin down the wrong things. I think if you're going to learn about sort of American culture, then great. But when you're just,

try and make it more relatable to their other sports you sort of lose what the game is you lose why people are traveling all around the world to see it you lose that sense of passion that sort of feeling with the fan base and so on like the fact that they want to be singing their songs want to be in a stadium doing this and doing that well make sure you're getting early because such and such is singing and there's going to be a 30 minute half time break like I just hope that stuff doesn't happen and the hope it's what's killing me here because as we saw just a couple of weeks ago when infantino was at the white house he seemed like he was prepared to do anything to make sure the president's very happy with what the tournament's going to look like.

And Donald Trump is somebody who doesn't really watch a lot of soccer, as he would call it. I wouldn't necessarily believe that he's going to be the right person to curate what is one of the most important events in the world. Nadine, what about not so much player safety, but player health and player fitness in terms of playing in those conditions, but also the fact that it's 12 days between the Champions League Final and the World Cup getting underway. Then there's an extended number of teams in the tournament, which means. an extended tournament. There's going to be less recovery at the

at the end of it. Enzomereska said about Cole Palmer when he got injured, it's not random, it's the amount of games. And he talked about Manchester City with Rodry's injury last year after two or three games, the player that had the most minutes for them. He said this is going to be a real issue again after the World Cup. Yeah, this was interesting as well because obviously we look at this through a real European calendar bias, whereas there are other teams where that would be like halfway through the season, for example. And so they

sort of see things in a different manner. but I think it is a real significant issue but the reason it's not the biggest of topics because this is the 1% of the 1% because we're talking about some of the players who are potentially in line to play in a Champions League final who also play for the national team who are also playing for teams

who are really progressive who will be at the World Cup and there'll be a group of people who will really suffer and the sad thing is in some ways for those players they'll never speak up because look at the games and things we're talking about we're talking about a Champions League final

We're talking about a World Cup and they would never put themselves in a position to where they would put their like long term health to the forefront of their mind as a priority because they just want to be there just want to experience it and they've got a bunch of managers

who sort of feel that as well but these are the most important place you rely on them to be there as well it's like ah I know you're tired but could you squeeze one more out a champion's league final and you're like yeah I think I can I think I can and then in 12 days I go to a World Cup

okay no problem it's a lot and you hope that it doesn't force people to break down and have really long-term injuries maybe like a rodri and others but I don't know at some point maybe it'll calm down but for the way that football's going I don't see a world where more games

are being taken away as opposed to more games being given to these players who are literally the top of their profession I spoke to the president of Flamingo during the Club World Cup who obviously always tend to go quite far the Lippitadores

they play state national and cup competitions within Brazil they were in the Club World Cup they think that the top Brazilian teams are going to be playing 70, 80 games a season from now on, and Brazil is starting to kind of attend to that. They're cutting games out in the state championships, they're cutting games out in the domestic clubs. That is actually surprisingly progressive for Brazilian football. But the one thing I'd say, NEDEM is completely right. The thing I'd

throw into that, I think as fans, not only do we kind of not sympathize just we think, well, I'd play five days a week if I could. You know, they're only footballers. I think we haven't kind of internalized that idea that part of the reason that the football and the of World Cup wasn't great was AIDS that was really hot and because everyone was exhausted that the spectacle is worse if the players are not

kind of in the peak of fitness but I think we as fans have this insatiable demand to be entertained go on, go out there you've got a lot of money you're rich go and entertain me

I'm bored I want to watch something on television why are you not running around we're not saying they're not physically capable of doing it what we're saying is you won't get them

at their absolute peaks if you do work them that hard and we will end up players picking up injuries as well. And either they pick up serious injuries like Rodry or their careers are shorter and that's what we are, we are toying with their health for our own entertainment. I'm not sure that's

I think that's a bad thing, but until you can convince fans as much as anybody that maybe having fewer games that are better is better than having lots of games that are a bit worse then I'm not sure there's anything anyone will do. Nadim, it's always the case before a major tournament, whether it's the Euros,

whether it's the World Cup, whether it's the Olympics where we're saying the stadiums aren't going to be ready. The infrastructure is there's an issue around the weather we always talk about things that potentially could go wrong what are you looking forward to about the World Cup after your learnings from

the Club World Cup what do you think that this World Cup can bring us firstly it's a tradition to say that everything could possibly be going wrong is going wrong yeah that's what that's what we do year out oh I don't know if it's going to be ready I think for me personally we like to tutte yeah exactly

I um I just I love watching football and I love watching tournaments like the World Cup, for example, because there's a different level of like pride that you get to see. I think being lucky enough to go to the last World Cup, like I'm with Rory, like I'm seeing, why are they like 10,000 Argentinians walking around the streets of Doha here? And it's because this means more to them than anything else in their lives. You know, they're leaving their families, they're leaving their country, they've got nowhere to stay, but to just be there to potentially witness their team when a World Cup

means the most to them. And I think that level of passion and identity from a full football fan and the fact that, you know, they could all support different teams, but this is all their nation, this is the only thing that matters. That type of thing, you see it in the stands and you see it on the pitch. It's different. You know, you can't play for another national side. This is your national side. This is the moment and this is the tournament itself, which is in some ways, kind of like I see it the same way for, like athletics and the Olympics. People talk about four-year cycles to get to that point to be ready to perform because they'll remember everything they did to make sure they were ready for the Olympics, for, for. the World Cup and to get a chance to do it, it's the stuff that people always remember. So I think you see that in the way that teams play, you see that in the atmosphere around games. If I'm lucky enough to get the chance to go over there, if I'm not working, I'll try and go to as many games as I can because it is a worldwide spectacle. And when I think you see people unite from every corner of the globe to go and watch something which, you know, matters so much, you realize how much you have in common with people who you might never

have met before. So the World Cup to me, it's peak football. Club football is great. World Cups. are peak football and to get a chance to see that and to see more teams get a chance to experience it as well. But it's one of the reasons why I love football and I'll be looking forward to this World Cup. If you go into that many games, start saving now, Nadem. I'll be hoping for comments if you can solve me out please, Kelly. I'd be appreciated. Natum's lovely to talk to you. As always, thanks so much for joining us. Women's Football Weekly on the Football Daily. I'm Ben Haynes. I'm Alan White. And I'm Jen Biti. And on Tuesdays on the Football Daily, we bring you the Women's

Football Weekly. Really pleased with the fact we are now champions and we got this title. We had time to enjoy with the fans and we'll have some time with friends and family after the game. As we dive head first into all things WSL and Beyond in the women's game. Women's Football Weekly only on the Football Daily. Listen now on BBC Sounds. This is the Football Daily podcast with Kelly Kitts.

Every World Cup tends to have a surprise package. So who could it be next year? Well, it could be Ecuador. In June, they booked their place. 16 games played, two matches lost. They were both 1-0 defeats, and they were away to Brazil and Argentina. And they conceded just five goals in the process.

Now, Rory, you've been brushing up on your Spanish and you spoke to a former Ecuador International who played at the 2014 World Cup. So what did Jefferson Montero say about Ecuador? What was really interesting was that I kind of said, look, Ecuador have qualified. They're currently second, I think, in the massive South American table.

they've qualified with two games to go and I said look Ecuador must be really pleased about that you know this is a good thing you don't think of Ecuador as being kind of a major power in South American football and he was in a very cheery way a little bit dismissive of that and he said yeah well it's not a surprise we're not impressed

that they've qualified they feel very clearly that they have the talent to go deep in the World Cup they're not there to make up the numbers they are confident that they can make the knockout rounds which they've done once before, I think, in, it might have been 2014. But they can also win knockout games of football.

They say, if you look at the players they've got, the teams they're playing for, Mises Tricado, obviously the most high profile, Piero Hincappier, who Arsenal signed yesterday, they have players at major teams in Europe, players playing in the Champions League. They've got another kind of dozen or so who are just at the level beneath that.

There's a lot of Ecuadorian players going into Belgium, there's a few in Germany. They feel they can, he said Jefferson Montero, I don't want to make him a hostage to fortune, he said the semi-finals is a realistic target. I think that might be pushing it. But it does feel as though Ecuador have that kind of Columbia, 2014, chilly 2014, 2010-2014 vibe about them.

They are the coming force in South America. And I think you can probably make the case that they are now, or currently South America's third strongest team behind, obviously, Argentina and Brazil. Joining us now, South American football journalist Marcella Mora Iarajou. Marcella, thank you so much for talking to us. I don't know if you caught the end of what Rory was saying, but Jefferson Montero has told him that he thinks that Ecuador can reach the

semifinals of the World Cup. Is that a widely held opinion? Well, I would not speak on behalf of wide holders, but I think Ecuador is really. interesting. It's a force to be reckoned with right now and it's kind of enjoying a sort of coveted third place, if you like, in the South American Powerhouse. Got Brazil and Argentina perennially fighting for the top post. But I was having a chat earlier on today with Jorge Valdana, who is in my mind the absolute top authority on football in every sense because he not only

won a World Cup as a player, but then went on to have a stellar career, both as club player and manager. And he said, oh, where could or a good, they are good. But when it comes to the World Cup, a whole load of other factors coming to play, you know, you need a lot of different things to line up, the country demanding it off you being one of them. And I thought that was a really interesting viewpoint, if you like, because in a way, Argentina and won the 2022, Qatar World Cup with a whole load of factors lining up,

but the absolute desire of the nation for those players to win, and that desire that translates. And I think Ecuador is still very much in a position where the country loves its football and the history of football and the fanship is huge. But at the same time, there isn't that expectation. And so, and perhaps it'll be something similar. to what we saw with Morocco Laswell Cup, they did actually do incredibly well,

and they did have that deep desire, not just of Morocco, but the whole Arab world, egging them on and wanting, you know, Africa to do well and so on. But I think Ecuador might have a bit more of a fine. I mean, I think there's other reasons why Morocco did so well,

which I'd be delighted to go into, but that's not the point now. But yes, I think Ecuador, I mean, they have, The players now, don't they have these great players, some of them are thriving in Europe. And they have a lovely history of their love for the game and how it developed. You know, some of the nice pieces I've ever written have always had to do with Ecuador and it's small places in the jungle where people still speak African languages

before they speak Spanish and so on. But I think well done is on to something there. Like have they got that real desire of. the nation. It's more than a desire. It's the expectation. It's interesting that there always seems to be a kind of third force in South American football. Obviously, Argentina and Brazil in that order, because Marcella's Marcella are the top two. Well, currently, currently. But, you know, Uruguay finished third in 2010. Obviously, they have previously won the World Cup. You had a kind of spell when it was Columbia and Chile, who were at times overtaken either Argentina or Brazil. Brazil

particularly have not had the best of times recently. I think a lot of it has to do, and this will sound very Eurocentric and I don't want it to. I think a lot of it has to do with the market, and maybe I've got transfer deadline day brain. But lots of countries develop lots of talented footballers. There is no shortage of talented footballers in South America. They are in Chile. They're in Colombia. They're in Ecuador.

They're in Venezuela. They're in Bolivia. A lot of the work that's important is in developing them. As Marcella says, you need a serious infrastructure to help them. fulfil that potential. But to get to that world-class level, unfortunately now you have to sell them to Europe. That is how you get Mises Caicedo to compete at a champion's lead level.

You play them in the Champions League. And I think the one thing that might have changed, Marcella will be able to tell me if I'm right or wrong here, that has changed in recent years is that clubs are looking at Ecuador and they are able to do deals in Ecuador. And I think that is a crucial difference because I think it was Caicedo.

one of the big issues with getting him out of Independiente was that nobody could work out who his agent was because there were so many people with mandates I'm doing inverted commas for people who are listening on the radio there were so many people with mandates that it was really hard to cut through the noise to work out who you actually had to reach an agreement with and those sorts of roadblocks

stop talent taking that next step because you can't Ecuador as much it would be wonderful if Ecuador could build a team that could reach the knocking outstages of the World Cup, purely with people who are playing for LDEU and Quito and Barcelona and Diakil and all these teams, you need to have a pathway to get them maybe to Argentina or Brazil, maybe to Mexico, probably to Europe. And it's only in recent years that that's actually happened. And I think partly, again, without giving all the credit to

independente, I think it's because they're set up to be transactional. They understand that they have to sell the players. That's part of their model. You find the talent, you hone the talent, you sell the talent on. And so we are seeing Ecuadorian. players who are at Bruges or at Andelect or, you know, teams in Holland or Denmark, they are taking those next steps and that's a crucial stage in their development. Well, I think that's the right. I mean, I think in Kepje, it was Arsenal, you know, yesterday, today's ago from Germany. But you're absolutely right.

And it's a whole sort of, you know, other world of discussion that we could have about that. I think a lot has to do also with the way European buying clubs have started to deal with South American clubs as well. And for a long time, the big, the steps were from Colombia to River Plate or, you know, Pena or a Polish or, you know, a big Brazilian club. And then you could come to Europe and then maybe not to a big club in Europe, but a smaller club in Europe to get used to other things. but then that we had all these third-partney ownership issues and things like you mentioned that there's so many people with a mandate or it could just literally be a group of locals who decide to invest in the player

because no one has enough money otherwise to pay for his bus fare to training or whatever. You know, the levels of poverty and lack of access to opportunities that some of these players have where they come from is unimaginable for Europe. So, you know, the way clubs even get hold of a player at all is to say, okay, well, let's a few of us own this guy. And then that starts turning into an investment fund. And then it becomes murky because actually there's some person

that really shouldn't be there. So the more that the world of football finances becomes accountable to some extent and has to show what they're doing and where the money's going, that also helps. But I don't know to how much, or to what an extent we could say

that that explains Ecuador's current form because I think that's a process that applies equally to a lot of, I mean, you could have a club like independenta that suddenly saying, okay, we want to do this properly, that, you know, this is our seller, this is the person you talk, talk to, this is how we're going to register the player in our federation and so on.

But you still need a lot more, I don't know, general culture of excellence and professionalism to accompany that player. So these things translate and feed. And I think Ecuador is really on the right path. And I wouldn't want it to sound like I'm saying Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay are real exemplars of, you know, any of this, like of selling or buying or agenting or nurturing talent. But, well, nurturing talented, yes, they are exemplars. But the business side is always dodgy, murking football and the bigger your success, the bigger the potential for problems.

And the other country that could potentially qualify for a World Cup from the region for the very first time is Venezuela. They're currently in the playoff place. for this upcoming World Cup. And Rory, there are, obviously this would be a footballing achievement. But there is a backstory to this. And it goes back to what we started off by talking about, which is the situation in the US and the relationship between the US.

And in this case, Venezuela. Yeah. And I think as things stand, there is still a travel ban on Venezuelans going into the States, which would cause an issue in terms of fans if they were to qualify, We've seen with Iran that the team will get special dispensation to travel in. I don't know on staff members, but if you're an Iranian fan and you want to go and watch Iran in the World Cup, which I think you should probably be allowed to do.

You can't, because Donald Trump has banned you. The situation with Venezuela, and with Iran, it will be similar, I suspect. There are players in the Venezuelan team who have had family members imprisoned by the Maduro regime for protesting, and they are representing their country. And I find that I've tried to speak to them. They don't want to speak because of the genuine level of danger that they would be in if they did,

which is obviously entirely sensible and wholly admirable. But I think the tension of what they're doing is fascinating on a just kind of on a human level that they are doing this thing that is their dream to take Venezuela to a World Cup. They are representing their country fulfilling the dream of a nation because although Venezuela is a massive baseball country, football is incredibly important there as well.

But at the same time, they will know that in doing so, you risk propping up a regime that is a press in your family. And I think that is an impossible tension to imagine unless you're living it and it makes what they're doing even more impressive, I think,

that they're living with that whilst still being able to perform beyond how Venezuela, they're the only South American country that have never been to a World Cup. Bolivia were there in 1994. So for Venezuela, it'd be a huge thing to qualify for the World Cup,

but to do it in these circumstances must be incredibly complex for the players. We're going to say bye to Marcella. Now, Marcella, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you very much. 13 of the 104 World Cup games will take place in the Canadian cities of Toronto and Vancouver. And the man in charge of football in Canada since February 2024

has been Kevin Blue, who is the CEO of Canada Soccer. Good evening to you, Kevin, or good evening it is in the UK anyway. How are Canada going to make sure you know, with everything that comes with this tournament being partly held in the U.S., partly held in Mexico, how are Canada going to make sure it feels Canadian? Well, thanks for having me on and good evening to you all. Canada is so excited for this tournament to arrive next year. And I think there will be a distinct Canadian flavor to the 13 games that are played in Canada,

hopefully with some successful results from the Canadian men's national team as part of that. But I think, you know, you all know Canada is a highly multicultural. diverse country. And I think the spirit of global football in 2026 will reflect that and it'll be an amplification of that type of spirit here across the country for the games that are here. They've got a lot to look forward to when they had to Canada. And obviously the USA has had the Club World Cup as kind of a warm up to the tournament. But that's not been the case for Canada and Mexico. But even then, you'll have been watching what happened. You'll have been looking at how the sort of North American, like continental North American crowds have reacted to this.

So how have you, what have you seen from that? What have you taken from it? Yeah, well, we were in the Copa America. Our men's national team made it to, you know, the semifinals in the third place match in the Copa America last year, which was hosted in the United States. And I think that was also a really good, I guess, some visibility into how some of the international game

may translate into a major tournament that's hosted in the United States. Obviously, the World Cup is on another level from, from Cope America, but I think there's an interesting convergence of international football culture with North American sports. And I think some of the venues and the logistics and some of the other operations that are highly professionalized in many, many ways here will be able to adjust, especially with the experiences of Cope American Club World Cup. So we're expecting a very, very positive, well-run operation by FIFA in 2026. And you also have a Canadian national team that's doing quite well to look forward to.

Yeah, we're currently, the men are currently ranked 28th in the FIFA World ranking, which is our highest ranking to date and hopeful to continue building that. You know, this friendly window we are in Bucharest against Romania and in Swansea against Wales. And the squad is looking great ahead of 26, a lot of building under our manager, Jesse Marsh. and really, really looking forward to electrifying Canada in a home co-hosted World Cup next summer. That move up the world rankings to 28 from 50 when you took over. It's happened on your watch, Kevin. So tell me a bit about what you've done in terms of growing football in Canada sustainably.

Well, I don't make one pass or take one shot or do anything on the pitch. The coaches and the players on the men's side have performed very well over that course. course of time and the country has supported the growth of this program in a fantastic way. We, from a business perspective, one of the things that we're responsible for doing is making sure that the national teams are resourced properly and that the sport continues to grow in cultural and commercial significance in Canada, right? It's, of course, football globally is preeminent and in North America, football is coming along and we expect the 26th World Cup launch us into football, into a more prominent place in the sports hierarchy, we are doing things

in Canada like applying business models that you see in, for example, U.S. college sports with a combination philanthropy and commercial activity to make sure that the sport and our national teams are robustly funded. So applying some new ways of thinking about how to generate resources and fund our national teams is something that we've been doing, but all of the performances that are happening on the pitch from the men and the women are not the responsibility of us in the office, believe me. That's really interesting, though, does we, in Europe, maybe in Britain in particular,

but I think in Europe in general, we're kind of obsessed with where soccer sits in the hierarchy in the US. We kind of want to know, is it, you know, it's not as big as the NFL, but maybe it can overtake baseball? Can soccer kill baseball? Do everybody a favor? It's like a weird obsession that we have.

We desperately crave America's approval in lots of weird ways. right where does it sit in canada is obviously ice hockey is the thing in canada sort of stereotypically in terms of the sporting landscape where it where would you put soccer at the moment does you have it's a great successful MLS franchise it's a fantastic question right it's a fantastic question because soccer is the number one participated sport in Canada there are more registered youth soccer players in Canada than there are hockey players by an increasing margin The difference in Canada is that despite the very, very high participation rate, from a cultural and commercial breakthrough standpoint, there is still some work to do in football. Whereas, you know, in sports like hockey, and you reference the NFL, the NFL is very salient in Canada as well.

Lots of people watch NFL football and follow NFL football, but very few people play, you know, traditional American football. soccer is kind of right now the inverse where a lot of people play soccer but there is not as much cultural and commercial breakthrough and this is something that is really important for us at the federation as we think about the continued growth of the sport the commercial ecosystem of the sport has to has to continue to grow and the 26th you know home co-hosted world cup is going to be a catalyst for this I think that you'll see an elevation of the significance of the sport from a cultural and commercial standpoint to a point where hopefully it can match the level of participation, which is already exceedingly high in Canada. How's it viewed in Canada?

Do you have the same, like hockey enthusiasts or like you shouldn't play soccer, it's terrible? Well, I think that's changing significantly because Canada is a country of people from all over the world, and we take pride in making sure that people who come to Canada retain their original cultural heritage, right? It's more of a tapestry rather than a mosaic rather than a melting pot. And so the significance of global football here is not something that is questioned by, you know, the Canadian population, which, again, people come from countries where football is preeminent.

So, of course, there's a traditional sort of orientation to hockey and things like this, and that's fine. But as the country continues to modernize and continues to grow, global football is being accepted. And I think people are so excited about the World Cup in 26 because Canada is, there's been amazing growth in the performance of the men's national team of the last, you know, 15 years. And I think people are ready to cheer for the men's national team in this World Cup, even, you know, more than perhaps their country of their original heritage, which has been the pattern in Canada, right? Like there's a lot of people that come from different countries and they cheer for their homeland. and now people have the pride and the opportunity to cheer for Canada

in addition to cheering for their homeland, which is exciting for everybody. Kevin, been fantastic talking to you. Thank you so much for joining us. Awesome. Thank you for covering us. 282 days to go, Rory. It's strange because there's so much of European qualifying that hasn't started yet. I think there's six groups that just haven't played a game because of the way it's structured.

And yet around the world, you're starting to kind of get to the end game a little bit and teams are, 13 teams are qualified, there'll be more this week, they get closer, other teams are falling by the wayside. It does feel as though it's starting to take shape. And like you said at the start, as soon as it starts to take shape,

you suddenly start thinking, oh, do you know what, World Cups are quite good at that? There will be more unfamiliar teams at the World Cup, which will be welcome. You've got bigger nations who are not in the best of form. Italy, once again,

seem to want to not go to the World Cup. They're having a bit of a mayor as well in Europe. So the pressure is starting to tell them, although it is annoying from a club point of view to have three international windows just as the season's getting started. I think these three should be okay just because stuff will get decided.

And it also means more destination in New Jersey, so we'll be talking again very shortly. Thank you to Rory and to all of our guests. That is it for this episode of The Football Daily. On the next one, it's Aaron Paul and Joby McEnough with 72 Plus.