Football Daily - Destination New Jersey: Host tensions, expansion beneficiaries & the Comoros dream

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Is the tension between World Cup co-hosts USA, Canada and Mexico a concern? Can Comoros complete the ultimate underdog story? Plus, will Chris Wood and Erling Haaland be firing in the goals for New Zealand and Norway next year?Kelly Cates and Rory Smith get our countdown to the 2026 underway in Destination New Jersey. JT Batson, CEO & Secretary General of the US Soccer Federation, joins us to discuss their preparations for the tournament. Former New Zealand manager, Ricki Herbert, talks up their chances of making it to next summer’s World Cup 16 years after he guided them to South Africa. President of the Norwegian Football Association, Lise Klaveness, explains the pressure on them to ensure Erling Haaland and their talented generation can reach the finals. And we’re joined by Former Wolves boss Stefano Cusin as he bids to take Comoros to their first World Cup. TIMECODES: 02:10 - JT Batson – CEO & Secretary General of US Soccer Federation 17:50 - Stefano Cusin – Comoros Manager 26:19 – Ricki Herbert – Former New Zealand manager 39:36 – Lise Klaveness – President of the Norwegian Football Association. Commentaries on 5 Live/BBC Sounds: Wednesday: Manchester City v Chelsea - Women's Champions League (8pm) Thursday: Greece v Scotland - Men's Nations League play-off (7:45pm) Friday: England v Albania - Men's World Cup 2026 qualifying (7:45pm) Sunday: Manchester City v Chelsea - Women's Super League (2:30pm)

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox. And we would like to tell you about the new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage. We're going to have a planet off. Jupiter versus Saturn. It's very well done that because in the script it does say wrestling voice. After all of that, it's going to kind of chill out a bit and talk about ice.

And also in this series we're discussing history music recording with Brian Eno and looking at nature's shapes. This is the first episode of Destination New Jersey. It's the start of our countdown to the 2026 World Cup. We'll be back in every men's international break between now and the tournament next summer. World Cup qualifying now well underway there are 206 teams bidding to claim the 45 places alongside the three co-hosts of the USA, Canada and Mexico at next year's tournament. We'll try and pick out some of the most interesting stories from right across the footballing world as well as speaking with some fascinating guests, not least the Athletics Rory Smith. Good evening Rory.

I'm very much the least of the fascinating guests, but you're doing still in work, Kelly, trying not to cough. I'm very impressed. What I did, I nearly choked with excitement, it has to be said. Look, 450 days from the opening match, it might seem a long way away away but we're right in the thick of it in terms of qualifying. Everybody's got their eyes on this and with 48 teams it's going to be a World Cup unlike any other. Yeah and obviously the expansion I think was controversial and people will have views on it either way that I don't think either of us are going to be able to change and all

of those views are legitimate and valid and sincerely held. I think there are disadvantages to it, namely that it's not quite as neat a competition. But at the same time, if you look across qualifying, especially outside Europe, it's given a lot of hope to a lot of countries who quite often would have been locked out of the whole process by now already. And yeah, in Asia, in Africa, in Oceania, there are teams that will be thinking they can get there. And to be honest, that is part of the World Cup's charm is the chance for those countries to compete on the world stage. And it's hard to begrudge them the opportunity.

So as mentioned, it is three host nations next year, USA, Canada and Mexico. The man in charge of football in the US is JT Batson. He is CEO and Secretary General of the US Soccer Federation. Hello JT, where in the US are you right at the moment? Right now I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm right across the street from our new National Training Center that we're in process of building here in an old schoolhouse. So we've got temporary offices here that we're all camped out in as we're bringing to life our new home. As you say that you're in temporary offices and in the build-up to major tournaments, it all feels quite small to start with, but now we're likely to get the first team to qualify in the next few days. Is it starting to feel a bit more real, a bit more tangible?

Without question and actually one of the things that's making it real is on Thursday our men play in the Nations League semi-final at SoFi Stadium, which is where our first game is for the World Cup and the first time ever playing on the grass that will be used for the World Cup. So as you know, so many of the facilities here in the US play on artificial turf and so they needed to build an ability to have a real grass surface. And so this will be our first experience of that. So it's our first game in SoFi in 26. The fact we're playing on Thursday is exciting and we're getting to try out what this real grass is going to be like, is starting to make this feel like, okay, we're here. Let's

go. How complex has it been, JT, in terms of getting things ready? Because I think one of the things about the bids after Russia and Qatar in particular was that all the facilities were already there in the States. There was no shortage of stadiums. I'm sure that there will be probably, what, 20, 30 cities across the US that feel they could have hosted games. Has it been a complex kind of logistical thing?

You're absolutely spot on with regards to facilities being there. We could probably host a tournament just in California or just in Texas if you wanted to. But the fact that the whole country gets to participate is incredible. A challenge in some ways is getting cities to realize, hey, we got to actually start doing some of these things now because they feel like, hey, we just hosted the Super Bowl. We just hosted some other mega event. We're ready. But I think the exciting thing is that cities are using this as an opportunity to make upgrades, whether in their public transportation, in their

parks, and there are other things to make it to where, you know, the experience outside of the stadiums is also an awesome one. Because as you know, it's not just what happens inside the stadiums, it's sort of all the fun that goes around that. And so that's something that cities have been particularly focused on. And so we're starting to see some of the benefit of that across the country. In some ways, World Cups and major tournaments take place in a bubble to a certain extent because the organizers come in and kind of put the infrastructure in place. However, with relations between the USA, Canada and Mexico being as, let's say,

strained as they are at the moment, how much of an added complication does that give you? So from a soccer standpoint, you know, it was the CONCACAF Congress last week in St. Lucia, and a very rough that we get to go to St. Lucia for our CONCACAF Congress. We feel very sorry for you. Yeah, exactly. Sun cream sun, sun cream for all. At dinner, I was seated in between my counterparts from Canada and Mexico, and you'd have thought we were long lost friends by virtue of how the evening went. And I think from a soccer standpoint, we have an incredible working relationship.

There are a lot of strategic things that we're doing together to benefit not just North America, but the region. Your folks will know there's a bid for a 2031 Women's World Cup coming up soon. That's something that we almost certainly will be doing in partnership with some folks around the region. We'll be announcing more on that front. So great relationships from a soccer standpoint. And obviously, this is an opportunity to show how soccer unites people and all around the world. But obviously, you have to put contingency plans in place because there could be potential complications. There could be further travel restrictions to some countries between some countries as well.

Well, you know, it's a dynamic that we already navigate through. So there were travel restrictions that have existed for a long time with certain countries in the U.S. And the U.S. has a long history of hosting major sporting events and U.S. soccer has a long partnership with the State Department around navigating players being able to come play here in competitions. And so in some ways, this is old hat for us. And you're always have to do a contingency planning around what's going on around the world. Could be weather, could be travel disruptions, could be political things, all sorts of things. And so, you know, this is something we're fairly used to. I feel this is slightly unfair to ask you, given that

I don't think any of us should pretend we know what's going to come out of the White House tomorrow, let alone in 2026. But in terms of fans getting in, have you had reassurances that there won't be restrictions on, in terms of visas and stuff? Because obviously immigration into the States is now a hot topic that's probably the right way of putting it. Have you sought reassurances from either from FIFA or from from the White House from the Trump administration that that won't be an issue? Well I think one really important note you know you

referenced Qatar and Russia this is the first World Cup in history that FIFA is responsible for the operational delivery of it. Historically, it's been a partnership with a local organizing committee in FIFA, and I think FIFA rightfully so it's like, hey, this is our biggest event. And so we should have more direct control on the delivery of it from a, you know, think about an enterprise risk standpoint, having, you know, your biggest thing outsourced is probably not optimal. And so, you know, FIFA is very much front and center on this. And they've been very focused on making sure that we have good working

relationships with the federal government, state and local governments, because it's not just the federal government that delivers this. It's, you know, interagency partnerships, state and local governments and all sorts of things. We've helped where we've been sort of asked to help and make introductions and help provide perspective. But I think, you know, FIFA is very focused on this. I know this is something our federal government has been working on for many years. You know, I joined a meeting in the White House

two plus years ago, specifically around preparation for all the visitors. And so this is something that folks are focused on. You know, we coming out of COVID had a major backlog as the US with regards to visas. And so that's a priority that needed to get focused on beyond sort of the World Cup. The World Cup is certainly an area of focus to make sure it's a positive experience for everyone who wants to come here and obviously a positive experience once they're here. And so I know FIFA is focused

on that and I know our government's been focused on it for quite some time. JT, let's talk about the sport and let's talk about... I prefer that. I'd imagine it's a little bit more comfortable for you. But look, in terms of what kind of legacy this World Cup can leave, what are you hoping that it can do for US soccer? We know at US Soccer that the US is a soccer nation. More than 100 million Americans are fans of the US men's and women's national teams. Tens of millions of people play. There's more soccer on television in the United States than there is anywhere else in the world.

You know, there are all these incredible metrics around, hey, we are a soccer nation. I think this is an opportunity for us to show that off to the world and for us all to fully embrace the opportunity of what that means and taking the next step. And so I think that's a big part of this. And then the other part of this is raising expectations around our men's national team and where we can be going forward. And so this is a, you know, important opportunity to show ourselves and show the world what we're capable of and You know important opportunity to show ourselves and show the world what we're capable of and and and to raise our ambitions overall as a As a country and as specifically as a soccer program Do you feel JT I've worked for American organizations for a long time now

And I've always sort of thought that in Europe we can have a false idea of soccer in the states that mm-hmm that we're expecting it to To to grow into something that has already happened. It feels like we're fighting last year's war in a way. 1994 obviously was a huge kind of watershed for the game in the US, but as you say by pretty much any metric, soccer isn't the most popular sport in the US because the US, unlike Europe, has quite a lot of sports that it plays and is very good at and are already well established, but it always feels to me as though maybe soccer feels like it has a little bit more kind of growing to do than it actually does that it's it's established it's there its roots are deep and as you say its popularity is

growing pretty steadily anyway. I completely agree with that and I think as someone who grew up playing and sort of grew up in American soccer culture in the 90s and early 2000s. There are many of us who have all of these things in our head around what must be true or what is true about soccer in America. And if you actually pull back and look at what is actually true today, it's radically different. If you think about where MLS was in the 90s versus where it is today, think about the success of the NWSL. I don't know if you saw today in Denver, the owners there announced they're building a stadium specifically for the NWSL team.

In the 90s, that would have blown our minds. Even 10 years ago on some of these things, you never would have imagined these things. If you think about the fandom, if you think about the investment, you think about the sponsorship revenue, the ticket sales, all of these things are their incredible metrics. And also, I think there is a mindset shift for us

around, hey, we can go for it. We're in a position where we have reached a level of what's called soccer maturity to where we have an opportunity to think big. So that's why we're in Atlanta now. That's why we're building what will be the largest national training center in the world. That's why we went out and got two of the best coaches in the world, Emma Hayes and Riccio Pachatino. These are all things that maybe prior versions of ourselves, we would have been like, ah, that's not for us. But I think to your point, we actually have gotten there and now it's time to embrace that and think about where do we go from there? JT, I'm thinking about when England and the English FA

built St. George's Park and they had that kind of footballing center in England and said, this is the start of England DNA. And it was a phrase that wasn't universally loved by England football fans. However, it is something that in practice has been very effective. Is that your thinking behind the training centre, behind bringing in Emma Hayes, behind bringing in Mauricio Pochettino?

Absolutely. So just two weeks ago, we announced our new strategy and new positioning at US Soccer of being in service to soccer. And as a part of that, we shared three strategic ambitions around what everyone in the American soccer public cared about. They want soccer to be everywhere, so they want everyone to be able to experience the joy of soccer. They want to win, they want our national teams and our pro clubs to win on the world stage,

and they want to maximize investment in our sport. And to do that, we rolled out sort of three core strategies, one of which is the US way, which is all around that sporting strategy, that identity around, you know, how we go win on the world stage. And so having the facility, having an identity, having a real plan around our pathways around professional development for the ecosystem, and how we ultimately kind of set ourselves up for success is for us a long-term bet on having our women's team stay number one in the world and having our pro leagues and pro clubs be the best in the world and around how we get it to where going into major tournaments our men's

teams as well as our other national teams are expected pony finishers and we think that's, you know, there's a real opportunity to do that over time. What's the brief for the men's team ahead of the World Cup finals next year? Well, a big part of Maurizio's focus is getting the players and getting everyone to believe you can go for it. And, you know, playing at home, we've seen that through the years, you know, the home team or team in the region certainly has real advantages. There are practical advantages, there's sort of emotional and sort of spiritual advantages

you get by virtue of that. And so I think it's really around a belief of really going for it. And I think sort of, of course you care about the results, the results ultimately is what matters here. But I think having, there are going to be tens of millions of Americans who are going to tune into this team for the first time and you want them to be proud, you want them to be excited, you want them to feel like we are going for it. And, you know, we are investing at record sums to put our team in the best position to be successful. And so we want to go for it. We want expectations to be high and, you know, let's go.

JT, good to talk to you. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you very much. Thank you very much to JT Batson, CEO and Secretary General of the US Soccer Federation. Rory, really interesting hearing what JT had to say. And it's one of the, you know, when we started off talking about the logistics of organising this tournament, it is going to be incredibly complex for all the reasons that we only just scratched the surface off there. We didn't even really go into the fact that, I mean, to even take apart the kind of very obvious stuff that people know about what's going on, the fact that you're dealing with 50 different states.

That is, I think, a complexity that they're starting to get their heads around a little bit, that different cities and different places have different kind of requirements and different needs and that, I think, is the risk that FIFA have taken by organising it themselves. FIFA don't, this is, this sounds a little bit dry and probably only really is relevant, I guess, to the people who will go but there will be a lot of people who will look at a World Cup across North America in all those different cities in the US, in Canada and in Mexico and think that is an amazing opportunity.

If it's the one World Cup you go to, it's not a bad one. And I think that FIFA have taken a bit of a risk by saying we are going to organise this ourselves, because FIFA don't have, they've never done that before, they don't know how to do it. And it'll be interesting to see how that manifests, especially given that you are dealing with three countries, that's hard enough, three countries who, one of those countries has now decided it might like to invade one of the other countries, and the relations with the other country, the third one, are not easy. I think they

have, they might have threatened drone strikes on Mexico at some point. It's very hard to keep up these days. Then you have the federal system in the US, obviously, which means that all the organizing cities are operating independently. That is a vast logistical complex situation. And I don't know about you, Kelly, but how do you think FIFA generally fair when things are really difficult and complex? I'm not convinced. I trust them.

I would be very interested to hear the conversations that are going on between Gianni and Fantino and President Trump at the moment. I think they could be fascinating particularly when you look at the fact that there is a replica World Cup in the Oval Office and the American president is very invested in having that that tournament there but I don't imagine that their men who would like to seed ground very easily. Yeah, I think there's no question that the Trump administration seems to be invested in the tournament. There's not a shadow of a doubt about that. I think the president seems to regard it as his thing.

And I also think that him and Gianni Infantino seem to get on. And I think that is from just the point of view of the tournament. That's probably quite a good thing. Did Infantino say recently that tensions between the co-hosts can be good? I don't understand the logic of that. That obviously is not true. That's a terrible thing. I guess you have to hope that by the time it actually rolls around, everything has smoothed out and calmed down a little bit.

We've talked about some of the complications around the staging of this particular World Cup but one of the things that we always look forward to, one of the things that we get invested in in the build-up is an underdog story. We're going to have more of them than ever before next year as you mentioned earlier Rory with the extension of the tournament from 32 teams to 48. The ultimate underdog story might come from Africa where Komoros are currently top of Group I. They will also play at the 2025-26 AFKON and for those who don't know Komoros are a group of islands in the Indian Ocean is located off the east coast of Africa but a big reason they are where they are in terms of football is their manager Stefano Cusin and I caught up with Stefano recently and asked him to tell me a bit more at first about the island.

Comoros is a country with less than one million people but most of the players they grow in France so we have the advantage to have a good background so we have the advantage to have professional players that's why we are doing great. Such a small country. How did you end up as the coach? I was looking for a challenge and I was thinking that because I was in Cameroon during the half-con in 2021 and I remember it was the great spirit of Comoros players. So when my contract finished in South Sudan, I had the meeting with the president of the Federation of Comoros and I was thinking it was the right project for me.

I've seen some of the videos of you visiting the country and it looks like I think everyone is a football fan. Oh yeah, yeah, because there you know there is only football and it's also important because for people when the team win one game for them they are very proud and this is the word that always they told me, we are proud. I know you said a lot of the players have a French connection, but is there a league in Comoros itself?

Comoros Island is a three small islands. So for each island, there is a league, but of course it's not very professional. But sometimes I try to bring local players because this is also important. But of course the difference between the players that are playing in Europe and the players that are playing there is very big. So how do you scout for players? How do you find them?

First of all, I am not alone. I have 15 people in my staff, so every week we look around about all the professional league and when there are some players interested, we start to follow them and then to bring them in the national team. Do you spend your time in Comoros? Are you based there? 100% of the players are in Europe or in Saudi Arabia, so it's normal that most of the time I have to be in Europe. But I believe that the coach of one national team in Africa cannot be the coach only for 25 people. So every two, three months I go there, I spend one month and I make courses for coaches and a lot of things for try to grow the local football.

And what about you, Stefano? You were born in Quebec, in Canada, and brought up in Italy, is that right? My parents were working in Montreal, in Canada. So I just born there, I spent two, three years, I didn't remember. But I grew part of my life in France first and then in Italy. So I have a European background for sure. And in terms of your manager background, it's so incredible. It's 30 years in 14 different countries. Personally, I have a passion for my job. So I go, I can go everywhere. And this is also a question that most of the time they ask me why you go to Iran, to Palestine, to Libya?

This is very dangerous country. But in my opinion, when you love something, you cannot think about other things. And especially these kind of countries, they look like difficult, but they are very, very nice people. What if Comoros reached the World Cup and you get to lead the team out at the World Cup finals?

What would that mean to you? And what would it mean to Comoros? Oh, it will be for me personally. Now, from the beginning of my career, always my target was to go to the World Cup with one African team. But I was thinking maybe one day Nigeria, Senegal, with Comoros, I think in the history of sport, not only in football,

it will be the great achievement in the history. Of course, it's a long way and we're going to fight. But of course, even the president of the country told me, if we go to the World Cup, I'm going to give you my house. Imagine. Look forward to watching your progress. Good luck. I hope it works out. Thank you so much. So now we have two more fans. Yeah, of course. And we're going to be watching out for the results now. Oh, so if we qualify, I'm going to send you two t-shirts of the team, correct or not?

Yes, love that. That would be amazing. Yes. Okay, okay. We'll keep in touch. Stefano Cusin there, the coach of Comoros. There you go, Rory, I've blanked us a couple of t-shirts. I'll take a t-shirt. Sounds like a good t-shirt, to be honest. And also... He seemed really nice. He was very lovely, very enthusiastic, spoke really interestingly about managing countries and places where people wouldn't normally get to travel to because he believes

that football should be played in those countries and seems like it came from a very genuine place and it was just very refreshing in a world of big superstars where it feels every major tournament you go to you should know about everyone. My first thought was that I don't know how he consolidates his pensions that like if he's worked in 14 countries in 30 years like who's tracking all of that like all of his benefits. You want to look at his finances. I'm worried for Stefano when he retires. Do you want to know whether he gets warm winter payments or something?

Cold weather winter payments or something like that? Look, we talked about the players obviously spending a lot of time in Europe and watching them because that's where they're playing. But it would be lovely and it is always lovely. It feels like increasingly we know everything about everyone. It's nice to have a country where we don't know everything. Yeah, this is a really sort of self-indulgent memory, but I went to the African Nations Cup I think in 2013 to do a story really about kind of how South Africa was not using all

the stadiums it had built for the 2010 World Cup. And one of the games I went to was in Polyquani, which is out kind of in the VELT, and they built the stadium that looked like giraffes and it was Ethiopia versus Zambia and I only went I only went literally to see what the stadium looked like and kind of there were some people that had been Unhoused because of the stadium built but I watched the game and I've never heard of any of the Ethiopian players They all played in Ethiopia and it is one of the most enjoyable matches of football I've ever watched as they played in this really different style They didn't do any of the things that you expect to see when football has, you know, best practice spread so quickly in football. And it's really refreshing to see a team that you don't know anything about and you don't feel bad for not knowing anything about and

then you factor in kind of what it would mean to the people of Comoros and to people from the Comoros diaspora, there's obviously a lot of the team are kind of born or raised or live in France and and that is, that's where football is, this sounds really cheesy, but so powerful. And those two things are what makes the World Cup special. There's always one or two teams like that. I mean, Sudan are top of their qualifying group as well. And for them to make it to the World Cup

would be astonishing. The fact that Comoros are at AFKON is extraordinary and it's testament to the work that Stefano's done. the witness, Stefano's dog. Hello, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brian Cox, and we would like to tell you about the new series of The Infinite Monkey Cage. We're going to have a planetar. Jupiter versus Saturn!

Well, it's very well done that, because in the script it does say wrestling voice. After all of that it's going to kind of chill out a bit and talk about ice. And also in this series we're discussing history of music, recording with Brian Eno and looking at nature's shapes. So listen wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Aaron Paul. And I'm Jovi Makhana. And on Wednesdays on the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. I can't put a finger on why we weren't as energetic as we usually are.

What they've got there is genuinely good people that really care about that football club and the fans have been huge in terms of the backing that they've given to this group. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily podcast with Kelly Kitts. Next we're going to talk about a team who are close to reaching the World Cup finals for the first time since 2010, New Zealand. The All Whites were managed back at the tournament in South Africa by Ricky Herbert and I'm delighted

to say that he joins us now. Hi Ricky. Hi, how are you? Very well indeed, thank you. And not anywhere near as, well you are much chirpier than I would be if I was talking to anybody at this time in the morning. So we appreciate you talking to us bright and early in New Zealand. We're heading into a crucial few days of matches, aren't we as well? Yeah, it looks super exciting. Yeah, the boys kick off on Friday. They've got Fiji in the semi-final and if history takes us down that pathway, then fingers crossed we'll be in

a playoff on Monday night in Auckland at Eden Park. But I guess a job to be done, one that needs to be done, Friday. Ricky, I think across here probably quite a lot of people would look at the teams in the semi-finals of the Oceania section, New Zealand, Fiji, Tahiti and New Caledonia, and assume that that is kind of there for New Zealand to take. What are those other teams like? What's the difference in standard like between the Kiwis and the teams from much smaller countries? Yeah look absolutely I think you know New Zealand certainly there is very very hot favorites to go through and I think tradition tells you that I

think through qualification through a range of the you know national teams even through our female sides and down through our youth teams. We're always super competitive and we do fly the flag in this part of the world, but it's football. Certainly respecting Fiji, who have been preparing heavily on our shores in New Zealand. I know that they'll be wanting to seize what is a fantastic opportunity for a team to get automatic entry for the first time from the Oceania region. Ricky, we have to talk about Chris Wood as well. I mean, his form for Nottingham Forest this season has been incredible. The timing couldn't be better for New Zealand and not surprisingly, he's the top scorer

in Oceania. I mean, you've known him for a long time. Tell me about his development. I think people are talking around the world about Chris currently. And yeah, super proud to be able to call him a Kiwi. And you know, certainly waving that flag very, very strongly for us all back here in New Zealand. Yeah, look, super boy.

I mean, again, had the privilege of selecting him as a very young 18 year old in the 2010 World Cup and played a part, came on and was very inspirational for our team and went very close to scoring the winning goal against the Italians in our second game. So, you know, roll that clock forward, the experience, the form that Chris is in, as you've quite rightly mentioned for Nottingham Forest, outstanding in the public, the young children, boys and girls, the fans of football across New Zealand will be delighted to see him back wearing that Kiwi shirt and leading the team into a very meaningful fixture on Friday. How bitter is he in New Zealand's sporting landscape at the moment?

Because obviously, apparently, New Zealand play another sport. They don't like to talk about it. They don't mention it at any point. Has Chris Woods' late blooming rise to fame in the Premier League, has that made any difference? Has it made a dent in the all-blacks domination of everything? Yeah, look, you've mentioned the sport. I wasn't going to mention it, but I was going to say, I guess you're referring to rugby. Look, football's been the only sport for me, so it's very dear to my heart. But clearly, you know, the country is very proud of what we do in rugby as well. But no,

I mean, Chris's prominence, look, I think it's been around for a long time. I think it's come more to the forefront given, you know, Nottingham Forest, the exposure. I mean, they're well on the way to be a Champions League team. And, you know, what a, what a fairy tale story that will be for that football club, and quite rightly so, the week-to-week success that that team's having, you know, the progress, the performance, you know, right across the board, you know, across their squad. But, you know, fantastic to see Chris playing such a strong, prominent role that it's, that it really has captured the imagination. And look, he leads a lot of the media here, and quite rightly so. You know, he's playing in what we would deem the biggest, strongest, most competitive competition in the world in the sport that he's chosen and he's doing a fantastic

job. And could be playing in a World Cup 16 years after he made his debut in the World Cup. I mean, just in terms of longevity, that's impressive. Yeah, it is. And I think, credit to Chris too. I think it's, you know, to be performing regularly, day in, day out, not only on the training pitch, but clearly what we're seeing in the fixtures against the top teams in the world has been outstanding. And, you know, Chris, in my opinion, look, he's always been incredibly loyal to his country. He's, you know, Chris, in my opinion, he, look, he's always been incredibly loyal to his country.

He's, you know, my tenure, which was nine years with the national team, he was always one to jump on an aircraft and travel a long distance to come and perform for his country. And that's been truly valued, certainly by myself, but by so many people in New Zealand. And I think that's again been recognized. And look, it'll be super cool to see him leading that team out on Friday. And I'm sure he'll have great opportunities to find the back of the net. He's in great form, so fingers crossed he can do it. Perhaps one or two times.

Ricky, you gave him his debut. How long have you been aware of Chris Wood? Oh, well, Chris was a young 14 year old lighting it up in New Zealand and not from a personal perspective, but I did, I did see Chris play when he was very young. And then clearly his venture across to, across to England and, and the continuation of his, or, you know, the start of his journey into football. But, yeah, look, very fortunate to have him involved as a 17-year-old to start with, coming into the national team and doing extremely well and, quite rightly, earning a very valuable spot at the 2010 World Cup. And, like I say, coming off the bench and just being so inspirational. I mean, look, his desire and attitude and like people would say it's to be expected,

but he delivers. He really, really delivers. And I couldn't be more prouder than, you know, Takoma Kiwi. And he's clearly playing the sport that's been dear to my heart. So where's the next generation coming from? Because this is what you're doing at the moment. You've got your own football academy. Who are the players that we need to be looking out for? Who's new on the scene?

It's a great point because it's super exciting in our country at the moment when every four years we get a real shot at the World Cup. Not that we haven't before, but the opportunity, I think that's been presented globally around the world because it's been opened to other confederations to have more teams coming from those regions. So, you know, the desire for our younger players now to be looking, you know, hopefully, hopefully on Monday night to see our team go back to our third World Cup. You know, just that passion and burning desire of our young national team players coming through.

The current national team has some really good depth of young players that have crafted and moved and are in quite challenging professional environments. So, you know, that's evolving as we speak with our current group and coming behind them, you know, our next crop of under-20 know, our next crop of under 20s, our next crop of under 17s. And from what I see, it's very healthy. So, you know, hopefully the consistency, which is going to be the most important thing, because whilst I'm hoping that we're at the 2026 World Cup, we are going to play some big countries again. And that's really going to be the litmus test for the team when we roll out against perhaps a country that's in the top 20 or top 10 to really get a gauge on what progress we're making.

Sometimes when you're in the middle of a tournament, it can be hard to kind of work out how it's being received at home and to kind of get a perspective on the bigger picture. How do you reflect on it now, that 2010 World Cup? I guess on a day-to-day basis, the memory sits really, really deep. You're always looking back thinking, well, what an opportunity that you get to go and be in such a, you know, a global competition, you know, the biggest competition in the world. And, you know, New Zealand's there and, and representing and wanting to do the country proud. And I think it's, you know, hopefully this is, as I've mentioned, another stepping stone in the journey of football in our country, that we can go and showcase the talent that we do have, and that we can really, really match it up against some of the big nations in the world and do everybody proud.

And I think that would be for me, can we go to the World Cup and win a game? Can we go to the World Cup and get out of our group? You know, these have got to be the burning ambitions for the next generation of teams coming through. And I'd be very surprised if it's not the ambition of this team. It's been prepared well, I've had a good lead in, they've got some excellent players so they'll be hoping that Friday and Monday can be kind to them and they step up and deliver and do what's really really necessary and then they get that chance to go and make a real difference again for us. Ricky, really good to talk to you. Thank you so much. Enjoy the next week.

Absolutely and pleasure. Thank you so much. Hopefully I'll be able to wave to you in the crowd in 2026 because I want them to qualify because I'm going to go as a fan. Yeah. And that's something I didn't have the opportunity to do but had the chance to go as a player, as a coach. I just want to go as a fan. So my fingers are crossed. Got your tickets sorted? They will be shortly. Don't worry. Still got a few contacts. Ricky, thank you so much. Really good to talk to you. Thank you very much to Ricky Herber. Of course, took New Zealand to the World Cup finals in 2010 and they are on the verge of qualifying for

the World Cup in 2026. They sort of fall in a different group from the ones that we've talked about so far, Rory, and we've talked about Comoros who are on the verge potentially of qualifying for the first ever World Cup that will be an unknown quantity. And then there are countries like New Zealand who've been there or thereabouts and have kind of made the odd appearance but that have recognisable players that people will be will be wanting to follow. Yeah and you know it's that it's that group of countries I think you've really benefited from the expansion and there is a tendency as we talked about in terms of South Korea and Japan that we always look at football from an English centric perspective and

a European centric perspective. We think how does this influence England, how does it influence the Premier League or the major Leeds of Europe? Given that we've just spent a 10 minute conversation about New Zealand talking about Chris Wood, I'm going to say, yeah, very Euro centric, very Premier League centric. That's understandable, but I think a lot of the criticism of the expansion was, well this is pointless, you know, qualification will be pointless. Try telling that to the Kiwis, they've got an automatic spot and they should look, with all due respect to Tahiti and New Caledonia and Fiji, Oceania is a slightly lopsided qualification group.

New Zealand should be there and for countries like that who've been just on the outskirts of those 32, this is an incredible opportunity and that is there is a as much as FIFA do everything for for money and power and greed and all the kind of negative stuff there is an undeniable benefit to expanding the World Cup in that it opens it up to to those countries who've you know a lot of the time had to deal with with watching from the outside and now they will get a much more reliable shot of getting on the inside and getting to be there and that's that's good. Roarie, do you think it's our sort of Eurocentric perspective that means it's even more surprising

to think that Norway haven't reached the finals since 1998? Am I wrong to be shocked by that? No, I'm shocked as well and what's actually mad is that Norway, which we all think of as being like a big football country, it's obviously not a big country in terms of population, although they are all very big people. All, all! Just all very tall people, Norwegians. But they only really qualified for things in the 90s. I think they've only been to one European championship and that was 2000. So is it our age? Is that what you're saying? Well I think it's maybe a country that was really prominent when we were, how do I put

this delicately, Kelly? Teenagers. Younger. So you think, well, they're kind of, they're a staple of major tournaments, but they're not in their history. That's the one spell where they qualified for stuff between 94 and 2000. And apart from that, they've not been to any major tournaments. And I think now the reason that it seems so kind of urgent that Norway are there is that

one of the game's biggest stars is Norwegian and it would feel a bit weird having a World Cup without Erling Haaland. Yeah and earlier you spoke to Lisa Clavines who's the president of the Norwegian Football Association. She's a former Norway international, she's also a lawyer and Rory you started by asking if she's confident that Norway, who are in a group with Israel, Estonia, Moldova and either Italy or Germany, will be able to qualify for next year's World Cup. Yeah, there's optimism. Then again, we have been optimists for 25 years in every qualifier, so we've been used to being a bit hurt also. But we are optimistic because we we think we have a strong team

The draw was not easy It was difficult. Of course if you get both Germany and Italy's Horrible, of course, but I guess we would maybe prefer To to get Italy Germany always scores a lot Against anyone so so and we have to win against one of them either way, but the other games I think Germany will score more than Italy. But they will be horrible anyway. But I think it's optimism due to two facts.

The one thing is that we have a good team. I guess in Norway now it's a sense that now it's our turn. We've been fairly close many times and yeah, so it's we're optimistic. The spring is coming after a long winter. Why do you think Norway has had to wait so long to qualify, not just for World Cup, but for the European Championships as well. It's been so long. For a country that has always produced players, maybe not in the volumes that you have now, but it's always had a history of having players in major leagues in Europe, it has a strong football culture. What do you think explains Norway's absence? Following Norwegian football as close as I have done, both now as president,

technical director as I was before, and before that also national team player on the women's side myself and then pundit for the men's side. I would say that it's different explanations. Of course we want from a media perspective to sort of tell a story, but I think it's been also bad luck. We've had games where we really weren't on par, where we really underperformed when it was PlayF against Serbia, for example. But of course, when you haven't qualified for 25 years, we have to find some patterns. And what we have seen is that maybe after the 90s, where we overperformed and had a

very good culture of performing, which was very much leaned on organization, the defensive organization of the team, very good physics, physical ability. We were early with analytics around physical abilities. I think we lost that competitor advantage. Everyone can run a lot, jump a lot, everyone is now, everyone can run a lot, jump a lot, long capacity. So I think we actually lost our identity a bit from the Viking side with strong defenders. And it took a decade for us to reinvent to make a more, and then you maybe went too far in the offensive side again, and we lost a bit defenders. So for a small country like Norway, you know, these margins can really, we can lose generations, you know. So what we have seen the last decade is that we have really, really had better and better

performance with our under youth teams, qualifying for under 19 championships, under 21, Erling, Martin Høneborg, all these players, but that we have lost a bit sight of the central defenders, side defenders, which in the nineties were big, big asset. So now that's a focus. And now we try of course to focus and not lose the offensive part. And obviously there are kind of the signs of progress there because the

the number of players that you're seeing in kind of top teams across Europe who are from Norway is quite astonishing. There's a very tall striker at Manchester City who people seem to think is quite good. There's Martin Oerdergaard, Alejandro Soloth, you will have to apologize for my pronunciation but Soloth, Atletico Madrid, Oscarskar Bab, Nusa, Christopher Ayer, Jürgen Strand-Larsen, Sander Berger, Julian Ryerson. This is a really good team. Has anyone in Norway used the phrase golden generation? Not yet because we haven't really qualified,

but I agree with you. And I think now I hear that we have always produced very good players. But I follow the league index for years, being a technical director before. It's the last five years we've had people in the top league also starting the games. A decade ago and some years after that under the previous national team coach, we had players in Europe, but they were not...

Erling was a kid. When I started as technical director, he was an under 20, a kid, you know, so time travels fast and Martin was, of course, this huge talent, but he was in Real Madrid. They didn't play, and no one else did either, of our top players. With Ole Gunnar Solskjaer back in the days, we have had many years where we exported players that did not play. Now we have, like the players you mentioned, players that play and maybe sometimes are one of the best on the team. Erling obviously, Martin obviously, and Søra Lot, he's on the

bench but he's a super sub. So this is new, not new of this year, but new of the last years. So this is why we're optimistic. Does having players of the profile of Erling and Martin in particular, I suppose, does that add extra pressure on Stola Solbakken, on the coaching staff, on the federation, to make sure that not only that a generation of Norway fans gets to experience a World Cup, but also I guess that the World Cup happens next year with one of two of the biggest stars in world football present in North America? I guess, you know, to be honest, of course, it's a pressure we want, you know, it's from a football lover perspective to have Erling Martin, these artists on your team, it makes me the shiver. I travel tomorrow to Marbella to meet the team and just to watch the practices. Martin is one

of my big, big favorites from a player perspective. Of course, Erling, when he's in a playful mood and training, so it's a pressure we want. But to be honest, to have world-class players, which we haven't had before in modern times, Erling being the most extreme, of course, that pressures everything. Also security, logistics, Of course, that pressures everything, you know, also security, logistics. It pushes us to change and it's change you want, but still they come with, you know, issues, you know, they cannot be in airports because people will just flock around them. And we have just realized that we've always had popular international teams, but it's a different level.

So that puts pressure on us on a lot of issues, but also on the way you say that people expect maybe more, but we expect also to be in the World Cup now. But I must say in the Euro last year, to not have our team there, I felt honestly depressed. The feeling that you have a good enough team to be there and they're not there to live their dream. I played some championship myself and I really wanted for these players. Rory Smith there talking to Lisa Clavines who's the president of the Norwegian Football Association. It feels like it's now or never for Norway. Yeah, and it really does feel to me as though there is a degree of pressure on Norway, on the kind of football institutions in Norway to get Haaland in particular to a World Cup. I think it would be a shame for him

as a player of that level to not get to experience it, especially with the expansion. It is a bit weird they don't know who's going to be in their group, that the group starts on Saturday, that they play away in Moldova on Saturday. It looks relatively kind, Moldova, Israel, Estonia, it all looks kind of winnable, and then Germany or Italy. And we don't know which one that will be until the nation's lead groups are finished, the playoffs are finished. And I think because there's still only one automatic spot, Norway are still outsiders, they will probably need a playoff, I guess. But if you look through their team, it's unthinkable really that they wouldn't make it.

Rory, the other thing we should mention about Norway is that they're an FA that has a conscience. They're very happy to take a moral stance on various issues and to act on it as well. Yeah, we talked about that with Lisa Klavenes and she's been very outspoken on the issue of migrant workers in Qatar, she was outspoken on Israel in the aftermath of October the 7th, she's been very strong on LGBTQ rights, her view is very much that football has to take a stand. I asked her about how that tallies with the United States as things are at the moment given the Trump administration's priorities of priorities on certain subjects. And I thought her answer was really smart and it's absolutely valid to me is that she

wouldn't want people coming along to Norway and talking about whale hunting because it's got nothing to do with football. She's not a politician, she's not a foreign minister. Her view is that football has to stand up for its part of the world and make sure that it has rules, it has conventions and it has best practice, I suppose, to set a standard. It's not there to dictate to anybody. So her focus in Qatar was on the migrant workers building the stadiums and their health, their

safety. Her focus in terms of LGBT rights is to ensure that everybody gets equal access to football, that football, as FIFA says, is for all, not just for all, excluding some people depending on the political kind of inclination of the country. That I think will be a storyline that kind of emerges around the US, particularly in the next 15 months, because we don't know, as we talked about with JT earlier, we don't know how easy it will be for fans to get in, we don't know how easy it will be for transgender fans to get in, because transgender athletes are already subject to bans. So there is a genuine political

issue and I think we can probably look to Norway for leadership on that. Thanks Rory, the countdown starts here and we'll have commentary of England's first World Cup qualifier against Albania, Thomas Tuchel's first match in charge on Friday's Five Life Sport. Thanks for listening, Mark Chapman meets Burnley owner and former NFL player J.J. Watt on the next episode of the Football Daily. This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy. It's an authoritarian regime.

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