Football Daily - England lose to Senegal in Tuchel’s first defeat

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Kelly Somers has reaction to Thomas Tuchel’s first defeat as England boss. She’s joined by Leon Osman, Michael Brown and senior reporter Ian Dennis. Also hear from Thomas Tuchel, Harry Kane, Morgan Gibbs-White and Senegal captain Kalidou Koulibaly.INTERVIEWS 12:00 Thomas Tuchel 17:10 Harry Kane 22:30 Senegal captain Kalidou Koulibaly 25:10 Morgan Gibbs-WhiteBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Thu 2000 Czech Republic v England in UEFA U21 Championship, Sun 1700 England v Slovenia in UEFA U21 Championship.

Welcome to the Football Daily after England's 3-1 friendly defeat to Senegal. We'll hear from Thomas Tuchel and some of the England players, we'll also get the thoughts of Leon Osmond and Michael Brown. But here is how it sounded at the City grounds at the final whistle with Ian Dennis. And indeed there is the full-time whistle, a crescendo of boos. Trouble for Thomas Tuchel, but a stunning, stunning win for Senegal. England 1, Senegal 3. Leon Osman. Yeah, and even in work, we thought we'd come and see what Tomasuka could do to this England team. The next step of this development of this young England squad in the steps to go on and win some major silverware.

It showed that we're not necessarily stepped forward, we've actually come and played a good center-goal side. We've been done tactically. We've been done technically. We've been done with quality. Center-goal deserved to win this game. I showed a lot more. They were better in possession. They were good on the counterattack.

They had real variety to the game that this new emerging England side under Thomas Tuchel just weren't able to show. It's no surprise. It's to the drawing board for Thomas Tuchel. Yes, it's a friendly and yes, it's the moment when you do experiment, you try and find, figure things out moving forward. But the experiment didn't work tonight. England weren't at the levels that we've come to expect from this England team,

especially in a competitive game where the opposition will have a go. Senegal were better, they deserved the win. And England go into the summer off the back of an eye-opening defeat. Harry Kane gave England a 7th-minute lead, but Senegal created the much better chances, they created a constant threat, and it was no surprise to see them equalise five minutes before half-time through Ismail Assa.

They then took the lead just past the hour through Diarra. Bellingham thought that he might have got an equaliser with six minutes remaining but that was ruled out through VAR and then Sabali, the substitute, wrapped it up late on. The England players are going to do almost a lap of appreciation to the England fans who are still inside the city ground but there are not many of them Kelly it's finished here England won Senegal 3 and it is a first defeat for England under Thomas Tuchel the first goals conceded as well England lose their 100% record under the new manager and Leon Michael you called for almost a bit of perspective

pre-match. We talked about the fact that England and Thomas Tuchel need to experiment. He needs to get to know this squad and work out his best side for the World Cup. But that World Cup gets underway a year tomorrow. This wasn't the result or the performance again, was it, Leon, that England needed?

No I think we're always expecting England to improve and get better and we want to see the progression in every game and we're certainly not seeing it at the moment. Yes, Garrett Southgate at the end of his tenure had had a lot of time to work on patterns of play and get the best out of his England team. Thomas Tuchel's not had a long time, he's had 11 training sessions, four matches, but at the moment we do look like we've taken a step backwards. We hope it's one step backwards to make two steps forwards, but at the moment this team under Thomas Tuchel hasn't really got going.

We come up against a good Senegal side tonight who outplayed us at times, who played really well to a man. They looked like they wanted to come, they looked like they had real belief in the way they went about their jobs and belief that they could win this game if they did what they know they're good at. I think Ian Dennis said halfway through the game that the England shirt looks like it's way in heavy again. It's been a while since it did that. It's been a good few years since it did that, but the lack of desire, but the bravery to

get on the ball at times, the bravery to play forward passes and risk losing the ball just seems to have gone at the moment. And it's something Thomas Tuchel is going to have to find the answer to if he wants to start making those step forwards. Michael, as someone who watches England on English, that worries me, the thought that once again that England shirt is weighing heavy, as the answer said. Yeah, I mean things change so quickly, that's what happens and that's what I was saying before, let's try and end it on a positive, let's not have one of these negative feelings again towards this national side. And today with the performance, I think we also, I mean, I always try to defend

and try to look after the situation wherever I possibly can. Look at the back four, for England, yes, we had Kyle Walker who made the mistake, very experienced, and the next three along the line, very inexperienced. And the two straight balls for the goals, what cost us, put us under a little bit of pressure. The intensity obviously changed when we made the substitutions, when we had all the attacking players on doing quick around the corner, little fast passes but then once you open up I did feel like the way we we dropped off we were a little bit afraid, as you've said.

That is the danger, that is the worry. But just look at the celebration down the right-hand side, that's what hurts. This is what you don't like, if someone coming here and getting a win like this and seeing what it means to them. I think that's the point, the desire of what they've put in and the way they've played, the way they've took the ball and the way they've played, the way they've took the ball and the way they've finished is off right at the end. For the second we were opening up you felt like that counter-attack was going to be dangerous, it was to get that third goal.

Have to say though, Kelly, full credit to Senegal, they were everything that England weren't and to be the first African side to beat England at the 22nd attempt is thoroughly deserved, it really is. But talking about the England shirt weighing heavy, you're going back to the days of Fabio Capello and Gareth Southgate did a lot in particular at trying to take away that burden of that expression. And I just think that some of the comments made by Thomas Tuchel, it's a backward step because all of a sudden you're almost encouraging the negativity. And I don't think England from a position where they were, the position was to go forward rather than go back from what England had been where they'd been challenging in previous tournaments.

I also, Michael, you touched upon the substitutions. That was something that was interesting, wasn't it? And a lot of the question marks after the game are gonna be about Morgan Gibbs. Why should he have got on earlier? He was brave, as Leon said in commentary. Ivan Toney getting what, three and a half minutes of normal time? Penny for his thoughts coming all the way from Saudi. It's a long way to come to only get a few minutes

and see Morgan Rogers go and play up front. There were some interesting decisions that are gonna be scrutinised. I think as Leon will tell you, Ivan Toney had come here from anywhere around the world to come and put this shirt on to represent his country, whether he gets on, whether he doesn't. He just wants to try and give everything he can

just to try and get his career furthered, to try and contribute more, get more minutes, get more involvement. When you have Harry Kane as that number nine, I mean, you're looking and you're going, well, it's going to be tough, isn't it? But towards the end of the game, he could have got more. We've gone to Gibbs White. I think he's wonderful to watch.

He's infectious. He does things really quickly. The one on the half turn that he just turned and then drove into the middle and got away. Could he have started? I think in that system it's tough isn't it, Leon, when you look to say well he could have played him down the left instead of Anthony Gordon, that was a tough one. Yeah, I mean and that's what we'll talk about tonight, tomorrow, over the course of the future is what he thought of this system because we're looking at it and don't think it worked, it certainly didn't seem to work against what Senegal were doing tonight Is that something he's trying to implement as part of what he sees best for this England team?

And is he gonna stick with this and try and get the players to learn or was it just a one-off? Was it was it that time where he thought I'll try it and see if it works and maybe he'll go right? That was it. What does he do next though. What does he do next in his next approach, Den-O? Do you know when you're actually saying, well, can you experiment or now do we just need to find a team, a formula? Well, the next game will be at Villa Park in September against Andorra,

so whatever he does, that should be a win. Are you two not surprised though, because it wasn't working in the first half? We knew that he was going to play with effectively two number sixes with what he had alluded to yesterday with an attacking quartet with the freedom to play. We didn't see that freedom until... He could have done Gibbs White for Eze, couldn't he? To put him in the central, like that sort of position.

We didn't see anywhere near those little flashes of freedom until midway through the second half. I'm thinking why didn't he change it at halftime? Yeah within this game yes but if he's worked on something in training or you know for months knowing he's gonna play against Senegal where he thinks that's where he'll get advantage from it he'll give it more time he'll try and just maybe tinker something swap personnel around try and get something from it. I'm more looking at it in the sense of we've got to the finals of major competitions at the Carrefour Southgate. Yes, we've brought in a new manager, Thomas Tuchel, who's going to have his own way and style of playing, but you don't want to step too far away what the players have

been doing, what's been making them success. What's got you there? You want to just tweak the final bits, whereas we're now changing systems and changing styles on to something the players are now going to have to relearn rather than sticking with the style that had been

getting us to where we are. The style that all the players seem to know. But Kai Sack was lost today. He doesn't didn't certainly didn't suit him. He's been our star man for the past few seasons so why are we changing so much within 11 training sessions of four games rather than just tweaking a little bit? So is that the extra one in the midfield then? Is that what you're saying? At this level can you not go with the two in the middle? No I'm not saying that. I think at this level you can actually do anything you want with

a bit of time to get the ideas across and with a system and a set of players that are playing more regularly. I just think that if you're, for instance, a top manager and you're going into a club where their manager, for instance, you know, Liverpool, how much did Arnest Lot change from what Jurgen Klopp was doing moving into the next season? Because Liverpool were doing OK. He didn't come in with this whole new idea of football. You just tweak a little bit, but you keep the idea of what's been successful going. And England having been successful, I expected England to still be playing the same system that they had done for previous few tournaments, but with some slight tweaks.

And yes, this was a friendly, this is a moment to try and change something. And that was my question there. Is this the start of Thomas Tuca thinking now we need to play a different kind of football and a different kind of system with your two, four, two, two, you know, we thought it was four, four, two, but the two center forwards coming really deep and the two wide men go, are we now changing the style of play that's been working for us with a group of players that understand the style of play? Or was this just a one-off to see whether that worked?

That's my question too, my friend. But you've seen club managers do it, haven't you? 4-2-2-2 with the wider ones and the two central ones drop down, wider ones go higher. We have seen the club managers recently do it in the Premier League and go with it and feel like it works and that's a shape that suits them, but that would also take time. And the problem we've got is when you don't get the results the

pressure mounts quickly and then you can't get them back again for such a long period of time. We've got riches in talent haven't we? And that's the hardest thing isn't it? Thomas Tuchel is with our correspondent John Murray. Thomas you said to us after Saturday you weren't going to sugarcoat things. I guess you're not going to do that tonight either. No, but the result is absolutely not the result that we wanted and we hate to lose, of course, but not everything was bad. We had a lot of changes, play against number 19, 18 in the world. It's a lot of quality of course and you can see

in the joy, the celebration of Senegal, in the dressing room on the pitch what it means to them. This is what it is at the moment so everyone plays against us like it is a knockout game, like it's a cup final. We had a lot of chances, we had many players who don't have so many caps playing together because I wanted to see them in exactly these situations. It is the second camp, there is a lot of learning going on for all of us. It's in a moment a tough learning, but we need to stay calm, it's not what we expect from ourselves result-wise.

In a moment we need to accept the criticism and get better You made all of those changes because you felt that you you had to do that. You needed to see the players Yeah, I don't have to do it, but I wanted to do it the players deserved it They deserved it how they behaved how they trained in camp They just deserved it and when else to see it we We took a very, very serious approach in the line-up versus Andorra to give the signal that this is what counts and we wanted to have the best performance. We did not. Today we made a lot of changes to see players who, like I said, with not so many caps, to give them the chance to show what they show in training. There was not one player who did not deserve it.

Still, I felt we had our best period after we were 2-1 down. I felt that we played with a bit of relief, with a bit of more risk, with a bit of more dynamism in all of our actions. We suddenly played through the gaps, we had actions with back heels, we had combinations, little through balls and were much more aggressive towards the box. So it just shows me that the expectations that we have also for ourselves are holding us back at the moment a little bit because in the moment when we were 2-1 down suddenly we played with more freedom. The decision to rule out the goal for handball was borderline?

It is borderline and it's perfectly described and I think in a borderline decision you can with a goal you cannot send the referee to the monitor. This is my understanding of VAR that you check a goal you cannot send the referee to the monitor. This is my understanding of VAR, that you check a goal wherever you sit and then it's an obvious error or it's a goal, there is no grey and if you send the referee over to judge it then it means you have a grey area but it's a goal so it's either a goal or no goal, you need to take the decision. Sending the referee makes it strange. It would have been the equaliser of course and I think we would have had a good chance to maybe turn it around completely but

okay didn't happen so let's not talk about the referee. You said to us yesterday that you are I don't know confident that things will click in the autumn. Are you still confident? You've got a lot of thinking to do over the summer, haven't you? Yes, of course, and I will, but the World Cup is not next week. We won all three matches and we have two more in September. The players will have a break now and we'll be in shape. We meet again in the World Cup season and of course I'm still confident. and will be in shape. We meet again in the World Cup season and of course I'm still confident. We need these kind of matches and to learn and get better, even me as a coach. It's a

hard learning today, I would have liked it the other way. It would have been possible, we had enough chances to win this match. From there we go, we take our conclusions and it will get by nature more competitive in September. Don't lose heart is the message. Thank you very much. There he goes, time is too good. From my very first game, I knew that I wanted to be a goalkeeper. The buzz and the adrenaline that I got from it.

The dream was to always represent my country. Mary-Eve is desperate to impress. I remember saying, I know I've got what it takes. A crucial save from us. You have to be obsessed. Mary Herbst with a super save. You just look at some of the saves that she makes. Not everyone can do that.

I really had no idea really how far I would go. England around Don Abadie. It felt like my world was ending. That was the moment. I was in pieces on the kitchen floor. You have to hit rock bottom to understand what you really want. Mary would put herself in front of anything and feel like she could stop it. I've done something that I'd always dreamed of doing,

that I never knew if I would get the opportunity to do. Mary Earps, Queen of Stops. Watch on BBC iPlayer. The Football Daily Podcast with Kelly Sommers. England captain Harry Kane is with John. After tonight, I'm tempted to call it a shock defeat to Senegal, but what was your reading of it Harry? I feel whenever you play for England, whenever you lose a game, people are probably shocked because of the standards that we've set over recent years especially. So yeah, a disappointing night. I thought we started the game well, got ahead, had some moments there but then similar to what we've done on the

weekend, you know, just probably wasn't good enough on the ball, without the ball didn't win enough jewels, enough intensity and yeah we got punishable at the end of the game. We of course scored a normal goal at the end, I have no idea why it was disallowed. The handball? Yeah, I mean, if the ref knew the rules then it would have counted, but that probably gets us back in the game and maybe it feels a little bit different, but overall I think for sure we know that we have to improve and get better and that starts in the September camp. What would you say are the reasons that it hasn't clicked in these two matches?

Yeah I'm not sure, I think probably with the ball we just need to be better, need to be able to play under pressure better, look forward quicker and then without the ball yeah we're just not not got the same intensity that we've probably had over recent tournaments etc. So we have to go away, we have to work with the boss and try and improve for sure. We're not going to panic, we've had results like this in the past and we've bounced back in a really good way so that's all we can try and do with the two qualifiers coming up. He's clearly not yet been able to implement his methods

He's told us that he thinks it'll click in the autumn other grounds for optimism Yeah, look, this is only the manager second camp I think we have a lot of new players and experienced players at this level playing international football is completely different to play in club football And I think yeah, we've probably seen that over the last two camps to be honest. But yeah, it's not an excuse, it's just the reality of where we are as a team at the moment. And yeah, we have to try and build on that and work on that. The only way now is obviously the guys who go to the Club World Cup go and carry on and the other guys get a good rest. And then it starts again. September will be the you know the first two

important games leading up to a World Cup season and yeah we have to be ready for that. Should we be worried of the demands that there are on you now going going off to play in that tournament before another tough season? I don't think it's to be worried obviously it is it is what it is. We have no choice. You know, it's a big tournament. Once you're there, it's going to feel real. It's going to feel big. And you know, it's going to be a high intensity tournament

because you're playing in extreme heat and against the best teams in the world. So that's just where we're at. I think as a group, we need to find ways throughout the season to just try and be at the peak come next summer. But it's maybe harder for the Premier League boys, especially without the winter break, etc.

So it's down to individuals just trying to stay in the best shape possible. But I feel when you come to next summer it's less about the physical aspect it's more about you know building the right team and having a bit a bit more togetherness in every moment and that starts was we're building a kind of a new a new era let's say it don't just click straight away so you have to have sometimes nights like these where you know it doesn't go your way and we're looking around each other in the change room we're talking to each other and you know sometimes it helps build a better team environment. Well good luck with the competition in the summer with Bayern Munich Harry and enjoy your summer if

you can. Thank you. Do you think he summed that up quite well Ian in terms of they weren't aggressive enough and yeah it sounds like Harry Kane doesn't quite know why. Well I mean the two guys either side of me might be better equipped to answer that question Kelly but I do think that even in the opening seconds the alarm bells were ringing because one of Senegal's first attacks they went straight through the midfield, they cut through the midfield with ease and Thomas Tuchel turned around to his bench with his arms open wide saying how easy was that? And I've just been looking as well and I only made a note of keeping the England formation

for going back to 2016 and I still can't see when an England team started 4-4-2. I was told that that was a 4-4-2 formation, I know you might disagree Leon, but this is a significant change what these England players have been used to for the best part of nine years as far as I'm concerned watching England. Yeah and I agree and that's what I'm saying about moving a long way away from what's been working for the past three major tournaments with suddenly new manager, new system, new style and I'm wondering whether that was just you know the one-off or because

within new systems and within new setups as you're doing there, suddenly we're not playing our defensive line isn't on the halfway line which means that your midfielders have got less time to press. Leon, not that I like interrupting you but we can head now down to the tunnel because John Murray's got some reaction from the England camp. Because we can speak actually, first of all, to the Senegal captain, Kaledu Koulibaly. What a night for you and Senegal and your team

and everyone back home. Yeah, fantastic night. We knew that we could do something on this game. It was a tough game against a nice team of England. We knew that it was difficult, but we showed our personality. We showed that we can play at this level. Because the last time we played against England, we lost 3-0 and it was a pity game. But now, tonight, we make a good game. We won 3-1, so we can be happy.

But history. First African team to beat England, the team that played in the very first international match. Yeah it's fantastic you know, we are not used to making history but we make it with the first time when we won the Afcon and now we make it tonight. We want to continue to write the story of the Senegal. We knew that it was possible because we have a lot of talented players, players who play in Premier League, who play in France, who play in Serie A. So we wanted to show that we have a good nation and today we did it. And all after going a goal down too. Yeah, yeah, it's true.

And I think it was the same start as last game against England. We lost very early this goal. But after we have the character, the personality to show and we show it so we can be happy tonight Do you enjoy your celebrations? Thank you very much. Kelly? Thank you very much John yeah you can hear in that just what that meant to Senegal and they'll take a lot from that won't they Michael? Of course they will you've seen the celebrations down to the right-hand side obviously the behind the goal in that top tier. Lots of people just to the right hand side of the directors box in the elation on their

faces to come here and beat this England side with all the talent that we have. And it was a collective wasn't it, it was a full team performance from everybody, the substitutions were made at the right time, we've seen desire, we've seen tackles, energy, some unbelievable energy down the left-hand side. Malik just kept going up and down, didn't he, getting crosses in early on and they're still there now with supporters down the right. But they won't believe that they've gone and won this game like they have to go and get three goals to end it. And for us, it's just a real sad situation with the national side that we keep hoping one day that they're going to deliver this trophy. That's what Thomas Tuchel is

here for and I just think that's been a giant setback this week because of the result in Andorra was nowhere near convincing and I felt like changing the whole outcome of the team today was going to be dangerous and it certainly turned out that way. Let's get some more England reaction now with John. Here is the Nottingham Forest captain Morgan Gibbs-White here at the City Ground. You got under the field Morgan but that's a tough night for England isn't it? Yeah, it's very disappointing. We let ourselves down, we let the country down, we let the badge down. Yeah, it just really wasn't good enough. It felt like after we went 2-1 down, that's when we started to play,

that's when we started to have that freedom and try and do something with the game. But we should have started the game like that and took our chances. Yeah, it's just a disappointing night but we go back to the drawing board and we keep being positive and keep working together. It was a very, very tight call for the handball, wasn't it, that led up to Jude Bellingham putting the ball in the net? Yeah, I didn't quite get to see it. I only seen it on the little VAR screen but obviously I couldn't stand too close. So yeah, obviously I haven't looked back at it yet, so I will when I go back into the changing room. But yeah, it is what it is, decisions come and

go against you. But at the end of the day we can't make excuses and use those decisions against our performance tonight, it just wasn't good enough. We're going to bounce back 100% and go into the next season. You must have hoped that you were going to start this match here on your home ground. When you got on, did you bring a little bit of anger onto the field with you? Er, not anger. Determination? Yeah, because I respect the talent that's in this group.

So I understand it's going to be hard, it's going to be competitive to try and even get minutes here. But I believe in myself, I believe in what I can do and I really enjoyed it out there, the last 30 minutes that I came on. Fans were incredible. So yeah, it's obviously a difficult night to take, losing 3-1-1, but it's just frustrating. Why do you think it's not happened in these two matches for England? The gaffer just spoke about it in the changing room then. He said he felt like we were just a bit frozen. We didn't have that fluidity, we didn't have that freedom. But as we went 2-1 down, that's when that freedom came about and we started to move

the ball better, find pockets and create chances and that's what we've got to try and do throughout the 90 minutes, not just 30 minutes or when we're losing. But we're still learning, we're still learning his ways, still learning how he wants us to play. It's a long season ahead to the World Cup, so we've still got time and like I said we'll go back to the draw in broad and figure things out and be positive if possible.

Morgan Gibbs-Wright, thank you very much. Thanks for coming out. It's going to be a long old almost three months for Thomas Tuchel as he prepares his squad for those games in September. You can all go home now, you'll be pleased now. I know Leon was already halfway down the stand when I said that. Michael, Leon, John and Ian, thank you as always. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. The next one will be the destination New Jersey with Wednesday marking one year to go until the 2026 FIFA World Cup in North America. Hi guys, this is Ryland and I'm here to tell you about how To Be In Love from BBC Sounds. Now as a single, divorcee, I feel ready to find love again, but I want to see if there's

a better way of going about it. In this series, I'm going to sit down with 12 incredible guests who are really going to help me rediscover what love truly means and how I can find it again. People like Stephen Fry, Louis Theroux, Matt and Emma Willis and many more. So join me on this journey as I explore how to be in love. Listen on BBC Sounds.