Football Daily - England regress under Tuchel? & WSL kicks off

Episode Date: September 7, 2025

Maz Farookhi is joined by Nedum Onuoha to talk England, Scotland and Women’s Super League. Pat Nevin joins in the international conversation, while journalist Flo Lloyd-Hughes gets involved in the WSL chat. Also hear from England debutant Elliot Anderson, and after Everton beat Liverpool 4-1 in the Merseyside derby at Anfield, catch up with Everton’s Katja Snoeijs & Liverpool boss Gareth Taylor.01:35 Have England regressed under Tuchel? 13:10 Elliot Anderson: “I was really proud making my debut” 18:55 Scotland get ‘excellent’ point in Denmark 25:50 Women’s Super League returns 26:30 Everton’s Katja Snoeijs: “We were happy to play Liverpool first game” 29:20 Liverpool boss Gareth Taylor: “We were so in control” 37:25 Chelsea ‘machine’ beats Man City 42:05 Tough start for London City Lionesses 46:00 Will Arsenal be Chelsea’s closest challengers?BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Tue 9 Sep 1945 Serbia v England in World Cup Qualifying.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. with Mass Farruki Hello and welcome to the Football Daily on a busy weekend of football despite it being the men's international break

later on Float Lloyd Hughes will join us as we talk women's Super League opening weekend but with us as we chat England's men and Scotland's men and Nadim Anewa and Pat Nevin Nadim got to say I saw on your social media feed rolling back the years

the Manchester Masters for you on Friday how you feeling now bit achy couple of days on or Oh, honestly, my son, I was a disgrace yesterday. Like, this was Friday night when we played it, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the only person. There was a real good mix of ages, and I ended up being one of the younger ones,

you know, playing just in front of the 55-year-old David James on what was essentially concrete in an audience. It was good fun, and I loved it when I was younger, so to play and it was awesome. So Nadin's with us, rolling back the years, hopefully feeling slightly less sore. Pat and Evan, and happy birthday for yesterday, I believe, sir. How come everybody knows it was my birthday?

What is going on your point? It wasn't a significant birthday or special one, no? No, not particularly. It's one of those ones where your birthday goes by normally very quietly and then yesterday I gave thousands of messages it's really weird.

Am I still alive? Must be international week. It is. Everyone's quiet week. Everyone's quiet, yeah, everyone's got more free time on their hands to send you a message this week, Pat. Let's talk about England's match yesterday 2-0-win, obviously, over Andora at Aston Villa at Villa Park.

Phil McNulty wrote a really nice piece on the BBC Sport website after that match saying they won, but have turgid England regressed under Thomas Tucho? And I think that's an excellent question to ask both of you. You've got puffed the cheeks there, Natham, so you get to go first.

I don't think regressed is the right word, to be honest, because we're talking about regressed in relation to when. I think as you look at the last tournament that they took part in, I think a lot of people supporting were pulling their hair out, saying how bad things were, even though they were still also within 90 minutes

from winning a European championship final so I don't think it's like that and I just think the nature of the games which they've played have had little caveats attached to them because for this game on the weekend against the like Andorra on paper it's just not the game that's going to inspire lots of people to tune in for anyway

and then as you become one of the people like myself, one of the sickos who tunes in to watch it anyway you realize that Andorra know the best way for them to in fact, Andorra really that they're not going to win this game of football. So it's the case of watching a team

almost attempt damage limitation from minute one. And for England, yes, you want to see the creativity, the free-flowing football. But more often not to do that, you need to see space and Andorra weren't prepared to give any to England because they didn't want to be embarrassed as such. So yeah, this game itself has a World Cup qualifier.

It's great. Here's the three points. But I don't think England versus Andorra historically has ever been a good game. So I don't know if it's regression as such. And I know there were issues based on the last game they had before that game, Sanegal, in the summer where they lost. But I think in the end, we'll see what England are truly like

when there's a greater sense of jeopardy in the games that they're playing. Because then that sort of sharpens the mind, sharpers, the focus of all those players, the management, even the crowd, and we can get a chance to see what they're like under true pressure, but that certainly was not yesterday. Look, there's a couple of things going on here you need to remember. Andor, have a look at the results over the last year or so. Thank you, I think it's all the way back to Spain over a year ago,

who'd done them five nil. apart for that it's all nil-nills 1-0s, 2-0s, you know. It's exactly what Nadeem says. They're not out there to try and win. This damage limitation before the first whistle's actually been blown. And it's really frustrating to play against

that. I've done many times during my career with Scotland. You'll turn it up against San Marino, the Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, whatever. And the expectation as you go and thump them and get four and five and six, now and again it happens. But most of the time, there's it famously, you know, if you put an average bunch of people,

11 them in front of a goal It's actually quite hard to get past them But they're actually quite well drilled as well And you know And if like any normal game You play against them And then you finally work it and you get your first goal And you think

Right we've earned the space now They're going to come out We're going to get some gaps No Absolutely no chance at all Just going to sit in there as well And it's absolutely infuriating If you're playing against it

There are a number of ways around it I thought England found the most obvious one, which is they usually defend really tight in front of the goal. Yeah? Yeah, get out wide and get some good crosses in. Two goals from exactly that position there. And that's one of the ways. I played an entire career with Scotland.

They usually just used me for those little minnow games, i.e. I was the lock opener. And there was a couple of ways to do it. And one of the most specific ways to do it is, if you've got really quick feet, you're good with dribbling, and you can move fast, They're usually a bit clunkier than you. And the amount of penalties I go against them sort of teams,

they just can't move as quickly as you. So you have to find a way. But it's not easy. One of my favorite ones, honestly, I was brilliant. We're playing at San Marino. And I was on the bench. And one of the very, very famous kind of Chip Caldean Archer, who was one of the journalists, said,

I've just looked at my watch now, and I've realized we're drawn nil-nil with a mountain. a great line an absolute cracker of a line and I get brought on and within five minutes I get brought down for the belly kick there's no dive

I just ran at them and they weren't quick enough so there's ways and methods do you get too depressed about it if you're England well you get a few digs in the press but in reality how many pilling points have you got

how many goals are you having away are you going to be at the World Cup yeah of course you are and that's when it'll count and that's when the players will turn up And there's one other thing, which I'm sure you'll agree with. The players are going to win the game. Do they want to then, in the middle of a season,

going to really kill themselves? They're going to try and get three, four, five more goals and risk injury and things like that. Or do they think, no, no, we've done enough. We'll see this out. And there's a bit of that too. Yeah, I would agree. Like, as awkward as this may sound,

the whole point is to qualify for the World Cup. And whomever they're playing against, they'll do whatever is needed to win those games of football. style points don't necessarily exist in these international breaks especially these early ones so for them as I say to have won that game for them to be top of the tree to be in control of their destiny knowing that there will be tougher games ahead

cool now they can prepare for that like for these guys it's just professionalism isn't it but there were a lot of people that said after last night you know what is England's identity and the need for England to have some sort of identity or some sort of momentum building towards next summer building towards that World Cup

or being while England will be there and that being something that they need to see that progression almost under Thomas Tuchel. What would you say to that? So from my perspective, I hear those questions and I sort of spin it another way and say, give me example of the teams that you know in international football

that have this identity which are so clearly sort of defining as such. Because for them, some of it's on a game's game basis and they'll say, oh, you know, the Spanish, they'll keep possession. you know the Italians they'll defend really well and you start just dropping in these like old stereotypes about things without actually watching to see how they're doing it along their journey

and I think for me like some of this international football side of things it's just it's like problem solving you know or being pragmatic you're playing against this team you're playing this style and the pitches like this it's in this place it's at this time of the season and just find a way to do it and I think if you end up being stuck in just one particular way I don't think that necessarily provides you

with the best platform to be able to make it to the tournament next year where again all of a sudden you're playing against teams from different confederations you're playing against teams from Africa you know from Asia from South America North America all this stuff and it changes your perspective all over again so I think the identity

side of things for me I attach that stuff more to club football and I know some people don't like that but for international football you have the players which you know change almost on a month to month basis based on who's fit who's available who's playing well so I don't think it's a case of making sure that you marry yourself to one particular style

because the players are at probably good enough to be able to play in whichever is needed to win the game of football. It's that brilliance in the midfield to forward area that is obviously there. Izzy is a phenomenal player. He's absolutely fantastic. You know, get enough balls to Harry Kane, you know, Gibbs White's a fantastic

player. Morgan Rogers, love him. You know, Anthony Gordon, real quality, by the way. You go on and on, we're very jealous in Scotland of these people because we've not got a lot of them, you know, and that creativity. So it's being really steady at the back and making sure that you get

these players in space to be able to do there, as they call it, thing. And I think that's maybe what Thomas has tried to do, because all these players have been given opportunities just now. And, you know, you've got to play that real, but it does still to come in, because I had a wee bit to that as well. So maybe that's the thing

in the long term, and he's not always had them. And the other thing is, it's the types of teams. If you play in a World Cup, you're not going to get the Andorras and those sort of teams coming out. and 2-0 down and still defending. Because there's no point in doing that in the World Cup. You've got to go out and play a game

of football and you've got it's a cup competition, even though it's a League stage there's a Cup competition, you need to go and try and win games. So as long as he's got those types of players that he wants and he knows the kind of system he wants and he gets to hope that when the World Cup comes, all

of them are the vast majority of them are available and on decent farm, then he knows what he wants and he probably oddly found it a wee bit easier because you'll play against teams that have to open up if you get an elite. So, you know, Thomas Tico doesn't look particularly panicked to me. And I think he's right

not to be panicking because whatever happens over these months, who cares? Absolutely who cares? Because in the end, if he walks in the World Cup and does well, and by the way, the minimum is semi-finals, absolute minimum, then

all is forgotten and all is forgiven. But he's also not afraid as well. continually as well and he has done again to call out players when he doesn't necessarily like everything he saw from the performance

and you mentioned Ezah he was one of the players that you mentioned last night after the game Pat Rashford Madweke you know things that he wants them to improve and again that's very different

under Thomas Tuchel than what we necessarily had before and that's something we're all still kind of getting accustomed to as well yeah I don't know if I was anything wrong with that someone's not playing particularly well

You get a wee feeling sometimes from the outside that if you have to say something to an England player or certain England players, you'll get the answer or speak to my people. No, he's a manager. You've got to talk to the player. You've got to tell him this is what I need, this is what I want, this is what I get the best out of you from.

Again, it's certain situations. I mean, I definitely would, as a player, would rather play against a better team who would come out at you rather than a team that was just stuffy, no space, just kicking lumps and kicking the ball and just not making an effort. The creative players like space and they can work in a little bit of space

but there's got to be a little bit of space sometimes and that's maybe part of the kind of the frustration there is and yeah, maybe they didn't play at their absolute best but he knows the quality of he's got there and he just needs to... It's a wee bit like the last Euros, isn't it? You knew there was enough, good enough players

and, you know, by the way, not even mentioned the likes of cool, Palmer and things like there is so much there that you can actually and somehow he has to find out what the exact great balance is and I think that balance is easier when you're playing in the cup of competition when it's a bit more of an even game yeah I agree and you know you mentioned before about the the way to bring in those attacking players and you know we've mentioned Jude Bellingham Cole Palmer's like if it's an informed Phil Foden like a Bokai or Saka you've got tremendous options like genuinely tremendous options and I think when I look at the way that Thomas Stuckel's not scared to speak out in the media. Like for me, it's not a problem unless it's the players finding out through the media what the manager thinks. And I doubt that he will be that type of manager because he's very experienced to know

the impact that it could have on, you know, on anyone, not just like footballs in general. So I think a lot of the messages that sometimes we see out in the media, like sometimes we shouldn't forget a manager's already been in the dressing room after a game and said what they needed to say. And then the next thing they'll say might be for somebody else. But I doubt that he's going to be talking to his players through the press when he, you know, on these international breaks, big difference compared to club football is that they spend every minute together for like 10 days at a time. So I'm pretty sure any messages that need to be

put forward were put forward before they were put in front of a microphone as well. Let's hear from Elliot Anderson. He was one of the players given his first minutes yesterday by Thomas Tuchel. Yeah, really happy. I think it was obviously the main aim was to come here and get three points. Yeah, and we're done that. So I think it's positive from that aspect. And yeah, making my debut was really proud. When did you get the word that you were going to be starting? Just this morning. Yeah, we found out the team this morning.

Did you have an inkling? No, not really. It was 50-50, I think. But yeah, I found out this morning and rang my family and told them. So what did all that involve, you know, controlling of emotions? Yeah, just staying calm, I think was the main thing. Trying to just rise to the occasion and do my football, which I think I'd done. but yeah probably I was quite nervous as you would be

but yeah just putting on a good performance was the main thing do you normally get nervous? Not as nervous as that no how does it manifest itself? I've always quite like nerves to be honest I feel like it helps my game I've got a little bit of pressure on me so yeah I quite like that to be honest

and yeah it was good today and when you achieve something like this today you're still a very young man but thinking back to where you've been what you've done you know which figures what things come to mind in terms of what has made you

and got you to where you are today I think just hard work and sticking to what I'm doing and training every day and work and watching these games and aspiring to be there really and then using it as motivation to be on the highest stage and the under 21s clearly must have helped

yeah definitely i think that was a huge factor possibly in me being here um sort of got used to tournament football and and performing on on that stage which um yeah really enjoyed that pretty forgettable night nadin but it's difficult to listen to that from eliot anderson without a smile on your face he was one of the highlights last night yeah absolutely it was i think the manner in which he played didn't make me think that this was him making his england debut i think i saw him and lots of people saw him be great for england in the summer in them in 21s in the summer with them winning

the European championships again. And I thought he was a big part of that. I love his like composure and his tenacity in that midfield. And I thought it was interesting

as well from an England standpoint that Thomas Tuchel trusted him to be more of the defensive, more buildup based playmaker in midfield. And that allowed Declan Rice to get higher.

You know, Declan Rice being the more senior player, you thought maybe you'll put him there and put Anderson in a position, which is probably like maybe a bit safer

in some ways, but instead it was the exact opposite. And I thought that's interesting because, you know, two years ago, saw Kobe Mani playing in that final four England. But I saw Elliot Anderson looking really good alongside Declan Rice in there.

So I think the fact that the manager saw him in the summer helped the 21s win the Euros and he's put him in for this game. And obviously again, we add the context. It's against Andorra. It's at home like it's as comfortable as it could be. I just thought he showed a lot of really, really positive traits and not many negative ones at all

because I think in games like that, maybe he could have been forcing a ball, maybe he could have been doing a bit too much. But instead, as I say, It was a really, really solid performance by somebody making their debut. Pat former Scotland youth player as well, Elliot Anderson, but he was good last night, wasn't he?

As Nadim says, that relationship with Rice was excellent. By the way, there was a lot of players that Scotland tried to get and couldn't get Anthony Gordon being another one of them as well. But yeah, it's such an important position for England because, as we mentioned before, those attack-minded players that you want to get on the right positions, but you also have to have an anchor. And you also don't want to start.

stop Declan Rice being, well, Declan Rice, you know, what he can do. You know, he can play the whole, you know, the whole game. He can defend brilliantly. He can do deep midfield. He can go and attack from that midfield area and he's one of the most dangerous players in the team. So it's almost a waste for having Declan.

So whoever's beside him, if it's a 4, 2, 3, 1 sort of system you're playing, has to be the more anchored of the two most of the time. Now, there's other ways of doing it. You can get one of your footbacks to come in and play in there. Reese James could do that. There's others that as well. but there's a position there isn't it and whoever gets that one right and if they do it right and they're totally you know Henderson originally being the one that would do that sort of thing but if he can do that there's a position there that you can hold on to you know and it's with the best world in the world it's not the hardest position in the pitch to play you know but you know you need to think about it all the time you need to be intelligent about it all the time and also you don't give the ball away you read it well all those sorts of things so yeah very very good start for him and it's a lovely feeling you're playing your first international

and it goes well and everyone's saying nice things about you afterwards it's just and for some players and I think you underline for some players international football is easier

the domestic football some games are easier you know why is that is that just the pressure or the fact that you're sort of dipping in and out of it why is that do you think? Lots of reasons

one of the reasons is all the players on the other side are from Andorra as opposed to some of the best teams in the world some of the times it's a more technical game. If you're a creative player, it's usually slightly less robust, you know, than when you're

playing, then you would be, say, the Premier League. So there's a number of times where, I mean, I certainly find international football easier, you know, because there's technical players and it's about, you know, technique and skill. And if, and you have to remember that not to be spooked by it, because there's enough people that come into it and that white jersey particularly really weighs down on them. Well, that didn't seem to be the case where that at all. And That's the first thing you need to show, and he showed that with aplomb. So England, their next place, Serbia in Serbia on Tuesday. We'll have commentary of that for you on Five Live.

Let's talk about Scotland, Pat, trying to make a first World Cup since 1998, taking on Belarus in qualifying tomorrow night. A good point for them against Denmark on Friday night? I'd go so far as to say. Excellent point for Scotland. I think you've got to see the Danes or the favourites to win this group. So when you go away from home, play against them,

it's going to be the hardest game of the six and it's very, very tight when you're playing in a group that's only got four teams it's all, you know, some of these World Cup groups used to take years it felt like, but this is all tied together, you know, it's three different

weekends or weeks together that you put them all and you make sure that you know ahead what you want, right? So Stevie Clark absolutely clearly would have taken and bitten your hand off for a point against the Danza and M.R. But he has to follow that up

because we'll get better, and that's got to be a win. So part one, part A's done. What was very interesting about it was how he set up the team because there was a couple of changes. One of the Scotland's strengths has been McTominy. Playing in that

kind of just behind the striker, bottom and forward, scoring a whole bunch of goals. He's doing exactly the same in Italy. He gets in, well, pushing it a bit in the running for the Ballandor, you know, top 30 anyway. But a very, very important play for Scotland. But he sticks him back in a more defensive.

midfield role in this one you know whereas normally we'd have Billy Gilmore there who's you know quietly holding the ball passing it nicely so you know setting out a stall in a very very different way it's a very physical team that Stevie Clark put out there and it's and hard workers

all over the place Linden Dick's big strong lad up front Adams will chase absolutely everywhere and we know Joanne McGinn doesn't lack any willingness to run constantly until he runs completely out of gas so he put a set type of side out there to get a set

type of result in a set type of game and it worked. It worked really well. So that's, I think that's number one in the campaign. It's worked. But the other five have got to work again as well. It will totally and utterly change it for the next game. But what he did in that one

because there was a lot of eyes raised in Scotland because when we had Ben Cannon Dock playing, he was phenomenal for us. The pace he's got in the wide areas. I remember he was giving a number of teams an absolute headache. They couldn't stop him.

But he was left on the bench for this one. And there was a lot of people scratching their heads. When in reality, without stealing all Neddam's ideas, he said exactly the same thing earlier on, didn't he? As in, there are different ideas you have to take into different games because they're all sorts of different problems. And Stevie Clark showed that he knew the answer to this one. Ben, Gannon Doak, again, you're not the only one who wants,

to see him. James McFadden was talking about that as well on sports sound. Do you think we will see some minutes from him given to him by Steve Clark? Well, 100% unless he's injured, we will see minutes. It's whether those minutes come from the first minute is the only question really. And I would be shocked

if he doesn't start this game. Absolutely shocked if he doesn't start because the out that he gives you against a team that have lost their first game 5-1 against the Greeks. You've got to win this one and you probably have to win it quite convincingly. and the way you do that

is get your best attacking players on the field and he stretches the game so much and he makes a lot of space for the other players coming through the slightly deeper midfielder so he's an out and out pacey winger so if you get him going and stretching the game a little bit, then the likes of Adams

can find a little bit of space McTominy can bomb in there as well and whoever's up front as a striker will get more chances so you've got to do that it is an away game but it's a very unusual and different and strange kind of an away game because the Belarusians

they're not allowed to play at home because of what's happened in Russia and how they backed the Russian regime. So they're playing in Hungary and it's a tiny wee place in the middle of nowhere that they're playing. So, you know, is that a good or a bad thing for Scotland?

Well, it's better than paying Belarusia. I can tell you that for it and haven't actually been there before. It's not an easy place to go to. Really is an easy place to go to. So I think Scotland just have to accept it. positives here

there's an advantage the advantage isn't with the opponents it's not with Scotland it's just about who's going to be the best team in the day Scotland will miss one thing

they're going to miss the Tartland Army and they really rely on it and it's the way the Scotland fans get behind wherever Scotland are they've lent on it

time and time and time again well they won't be able to do that this time it's you know behind closed doors and that's going to be a little bit strange but I honestly think it's not something to worry about

it is a different environment, isn't it? And it is a different atmosphere native. That's the thing, playing behind closed doors when you loosen the noise and the roar and that, again, is going to be a very different experience from Friday night for these players. Oh, 100%. But to add some nuance into this, because

you know, this is a great show for nuance. There are some players that do prefer playing without that sort of pressure as well, because that's hard on army in some ways. It can give you that extra percent, but if things aren't going well, for some people, like they feel anxiety because of the crowd, I think sometimes, I think we saw this during the

the times when the Premier League and other leagues were being played behind closed doors for some people you saw a sort of pressure lifted from their shoulders because now it was solely

about the football it wasn't a reaction to a mistake that you made from the crowd is like what does the manager think what do my teammates think you're not playing that side of the game as well

and yes for some it could maybe take away that extra 1% but for others like as I say it puts things into perspective not least of all for example

sorry to like burst the bubble on what football is but like corners aren't really that dangerous to defend. It just feels worse when the crowd is saying, yeah, come on, here we go, see something to happen. So yeah, the reality of the football very much set in when people aren't

watching it by the thousand in the stand. So yes, it changes it. But, you know, not necessarily for the better or nor for the worse. Thanks, Pat. Nadim, staying with us, we'll be reacting to the opening weekend of the Women's Super League after this. He scored goals, lifted trophies and

broken records along the way. There it is. It's a day to remember the week. And now he's got a podcast. Welcome to the Wayne Rooney show. Twice a week, Wayne Rooney, Kay Kerd and me, Kelly Summers, break down the biggest stories in the Premier League and beyond. As much as you'd like to say it, loyalty in football now is there's no existence, whether that's fun players or managers.

Plus, we'll hear the funniest, wildest and most outrageous stories from Wayne's career. The Wayne Rooney show. Everybody's talking about it. Listen on BBC Sounds. You're listening to the Football Daily podcast with Mas Faruqi. Let's talk the WSL. Flo Lloyd Hughes is with us.

Part of the team on the women's football show available on the eye player. Flo enjoyed the opening weekend of the WSEL. It feels like we've got so much to talk about. Yeah, it was a really good opening weekend, and it's funny because it feels like Chelsea's game against Man City on Friday night happened years ago because it's been so spread out the action

across this opening weekend, but some really interesting games actually in there. I think we should probably start with the Merse side derby at Amfield. I mean, obviously Liverpool's record against Everton in the WSL at Anfield continues to be terrible. A 4-1 win for Everton, O'nella Vignola, scoring a hat trick, and Katya Snois scored a header. Liverpool is kind of the game that kicks our season off. So we were kind of happy. It was the first game of the season.

But no, in the end, this is all we wanted to start with a win, and that's what we did today. More than big positive, Ornella Vigniolera as well. I mean, an amazing start for her on her debut, getting a hat trick. Yeah, I said it before. I think she's been brilliant in preseason already. And I think as a striker, I can tell, I know how important it is to get your first WSL goal in as quick as possible. And she just did it three times in a row.

So I think it's brilliant. And I think there will be loads of goals coming from her in the other games as well. That's Katnia Snois. What a debut for Onela Vignola. Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, there's so many incredible stats flying around, I'm sure some people may have seen the one about her being the first Everton player of any gender to score a hatch against Liverpool since Dixie Dean in September 1931. That's been going around social media.

So, yeah, incredible for Everton. I think there's a good energy around the club. Obviously, you know, fans will know that from the men's side with the new stadium. The women's team are moving into Goodison this season. This was at Amfield. But the manager's been backed. Nine new signings come in. a lot of them played today

and yeah I think it was impressive to see such a big result against their rivals it did feel didn't it Nadam like they were you know good vibes I mean as Flo says not playing at Goodison Park but it does feel like it's a team in a good place Brian Soroson with a smile on his face

we're not necessarily used to seeing that it just feels like Everton in a good moment yeah absolutely and don't get me wrong it's far easy to be smiling at the start of the season as opposed to the end especially when your team is winning and at times quite convincingly today. But yeah, as Flo said, to be able to have those signings and the talk was, you know, he's picking the players that he wants

and the number of them and the sort of youthful nature of them. I think it was good to see from their perspective. And I'll be honest, based on how the game started, I did not think he was going to be finishing 4-1 to Everton. But in fairness to them, and to be fair, the way it's shown on TV these days, having that sort of insight from a manager or a player, like either during the game or a half-time,

I think it says a lot about what they're trying to do. and I thought it was interesting where you've just gone in at halftime two one up you could argue quite luckily but you're still two one up so usually the vibes are like yeah it's okay everything will be alright let's go let's do about the second half

but then three subs being made it's like okay okay we're going to be more aggressive and in fairness from literally the 46 minute that's exactly what they were so you know that smile's getting bigger and bigger in that Merseyside rain but yeah what a way to start the season for him well let's have listened to what Garrett Taylor

had to say after the match the new Liverpool boss, obviously his side took the lead in the first half at Amfield, but we're on the end eventually of that four-one defeat. The start of the game was very good. I thought for 40 minutes, we were so in control. Should have been more than the 1-0. And even at 1-1, we had opportunities to enhance our lead and probably end up with a score line that Everton ended up with.

I don't think anyone would have been against us in that sense because we were so in control. And we just had a five-minute period, either side of halftime, which was our undoing. And, yeah, sometimes the game can get away from me, really quickly. From the way you're talking, you said that plenty more to come. Obviously, we've got players to come back in, new signings,

who are going to come into the side as well. So do you feel there's plenty more to come from this side? I think so, but we've going to have to grow and get better and improve in so many things. You know, fitness levels need to improve. Obviously, I understand how we do things. But I think there was enough there in that first half to be kind of excited about. Of course, we don't want the game to go the way it did. But I think that there's a lot of positives there.

we've just got to really stick to the processes that we do. It feels after today, I appreciate it's only one game, but it does feel like Gareth Taylor's got quite a lot of work to do with this Liverpool team. Yeah, there's been a fair amount of change over this summer. I think losing Liv Smith, who obviously went to Arsenal for a big price tag, that's tough. That's a tough player to fill the gap. Obviously, they did get a good transfer fee around a million pounds.

So there was budget there. they also lost Taylor Hines who was quite a key player in the squad but will end up being a sort of more of a rotation versatile option for Arsenal so those are two big players that they lost gaps to fill so I do think when you look at quality of that squad is going to be a challenge for them this season I think defensively they made a lot of mistakes today actually going forward they have some bright moments and Taylor spoke about that but defensively to concede four goals

when you look at the stats, they were dominant at times, especially when it comes to the quality of chances that they created compared to Everton's. That's where the fear will be. Why are they making so many areas when they've got quite experienced backline there? I would agree with that. And from my perspective as well,

seeing Gareth Taylor outside of like the city football group system as well, it'll be interesting to see how, almost how he's received because for the style of play that he would have at city at times, which he, in my opinion, would stick to at times a bit too rigidly. Like how does that work now? when the environment isn't the same when that isn't encouraged from the very top and it's more so about say other things and so on

so I think it's going to be a good test for him and as you said Liverpool aren't in the best position right now so you've got a manager who's experienced in this league but what can you get from this team I think they were pretty close to mid-table last year do you think they'll finish higher than that flow I think they'll be in the same situation again I think they'll be in the sort of bottom three for this season

I think if I think of all the teams who are in real trouble Lester probably the worst of those. It's been really chaotic preseason, losing players, you know, the coach getting sacked. But I would put Lester, Tottenham and Liverpool probably as the three who are at most risk of being part of the playoff. Obviously, it's a bit different in this season because the bottom side is going to be playing a playoff. So all they need to do is beat whoever finishes third in WSL2. So whether the gap will kind of be in favour of that WSL side will,

It's quite likely that any team might have enough to get through. But it's a one-off game. Anything can happen. But, yeah, I do worry about Liverpool this season just because of the squad on paper. Karen Barzley said in commentary during the first half that Gareth Taylor was written all over this Liverpool team, which I thought was a really interesting way of putting it, especially with what you just said there, Nadim, about almost a kind of a rigid approach that he had when he was at Manchester City. So I wonder what, you know,

Garra Taylor written all over a team looks like and how long it will take to shape this Liverpool team into one that he wants to look like a Garra Taylor team. I think as I see the players, there'll be learning about that system every single day. And I think he said himself that he's learning from mistakes and so on. And in fairness, he's still relatively speaking, a young coach. But I just, I don't know, I think at times for City,

I thought the system with the players that they had meant that they couldn't really, well, they didn't really win some of the games that they needed to win in those right moments. And that's for me with a more talented squad

than we see at Liverpool. So if it ends up being in a position where it's almost a like for like, then the outcome won't be any better than it was a sitting. If anything, it could be considerably worse.

I think again for, I don't know, maybe I'm missing the point here, but I think it's a mentality thing because say if you go to Man City, the expectation is that you'll play in that manner. But I think elsewhere, maybe there's a bit more nuances expected that's going to be a case

of what these are the players that we have, these are the goals that we want. And the route to get there is going to have to be the one that's most efficient with the people that we have. Yeah, I think there's an element of that. I think you're right.

You come from that city environment. There's expectation to build from the back. I think we did see that from Liverpool today. Whether they have the qualities to do that, I actually think there are times where they actually looked all right playing out from the back. But this was against Everton.

They're going to get pressed a lot more by other sides higher up the table. So it's whether he wants to kind of push through with that plan and feels like he's got the quality there to make it happen because it is really tough. And I think Liverpool, you know, managers previously at Liverpool have challenged the hierarchy on budget. They did spend a club record fee to get Liv Smith and then they sold her for what was at

the time a world record fee. So it's all about investment in the right way, not just necessarily buying one headline player who you maybe rely on, but spreading that investment in order to get. the best out of your squad. Yeah, I think that's a good point. And also, in regards to his style of play, like I think at times we think about it in a sort of more simplistic way

in terms of playing out from the back of times, but it's more so for me, like they like to go, well, Citi used to like to control games of football. And I think at times that level of patience is something that requires players who can take the ball under pressure, do you know, be able to sort of make some of those decisions

and want to keep possession. Whereas I think there's a tendency for most other people, not most of other people, to think going forward first and I think from Garif Tel in my opinion that wasn't necessarily the case and I think City in some ways might be changing from that standpoint

because we saw them create so many chances on the Friday but I don't know I think it'd be interesting to see because as Karen said it does look like the way they were trying to play was very much in the Garif Taylor mode but in reality does that bring out the best outcomes

for this Liverpool side according to the players that they have right now we are going to move on to Chelsea against Manchester City on Friday night but if I just want to to ask you about Everton just before we do. We've already touched on the fact that Brian Sorenson had a smile on his face today. You know, you contrast Brian Sorenson and the mood around Everton the start of this season,

maybe to the start of the year when the takeover was yet to happen. And remembering very openly interviews Brian Sorenson talking about how he basically didn't really have any players with all the injuries he had. And now what he's able to do when he's got that investment and he's had a stable close season to work with this squad. It's an Everton team, I think. We're maybe excited to see what they might be able to do this season. Definitely.

And I think that's exciting for fans. And I think if both clubs, both the men's and women's teams, can do well, I think that helps. I think we've seen it with the way that Arsenal, women have grown their fan base. The more that the men's side have been challenging in the Premier League and the Champions League. It helps create good atmosphere across the whole club. And people want to go to more games as a whole. and I think that it feels like there's something exciting building at both those teams and that will get people wanting to go to Goodison for what is a new era with the women's team playing there.

Absolutely. So Everton with three points after their first win today against Liverpool. Chelsea with three points, the holders in the WSL after their two on win over Manchester City on Friday night. What do we make then of Chelsea first up this season? flow, we always talk about it, you know, that they've been so dominant in the WSL, and it's it's multiple fronts that we always know they want to challenge on every season. Yeah, they're a machine. They're an absolute machine.

They obviously finished last season, unbeaten in all the domestic competitions, which is incredible, winning the league by 12 points. It was ridiculous. And it was a gap that obviously a lot of people spoke about because there was questions around the competitiveness of the WSL as a whole, but where Chelsea really showed how strong they are in those key games against their title rivals where they, you know, some moments weren't the most dominant team across 90 minutes, but they have such incredible depth. And I think we saw that on Friday night with how they managed to do enough to really kill

off that game. I think when they've got injuries as well, you know, you forget that. You look at who was sitting behind the bench, Ramirez, who was announced as a, you know, having hamstring injury earlier in the season. But Sam Kerr is still not 100%. She played a little preseason but they're Naomi Germa didn't play and they've got other players coming back

so I think when you look and take into account all those injuries and how they just got the job done on Friday night that is what is

so impressive about this Chelsea team Nadin that's the thing isn't it they have so much quality everywhere you look even with the injuries as Flo's saying

but that is the big target for the teams that they haven't been able to do the last what six seasons is to close that gut to Chelsea they're a target, they've got to try and chase them down. Yeah, absolutely.

As you've said, they've been a target for a long time now. And I'm trying to think of an analogy to sort of describe them. And I found one. It's a bit weak. Tell me if it's, tell me if it's things so. But I almost feel like with them, there's like just a flow chart that just leads to them winning the title, whichever way you want to see it. Because some weeks, like, did you play well?

Yes. Did you play well? No. Did you win? Yeah, we did. You know what I mean? There's always a way for them to do it. And the fact that it can do it in so many different ways is what makes them, you know, at times,

like they're not tough to understand as such, but they've been so many times across those six years where some of the teams who are also contesting for titles have played against them. And I've left the stadium thinking that they deserve more from the game. But Chelsea find a way to do it. You know, that is basically like they're,

one of their biggest skill sets as champions, no matter what the situation is in terms of whether everyone's available, whether they've got injuries, whatever a time of the season is, like fixed congestion for them and so on. You know, for these big games, they tend to always find a way to do enough to keep people distance.

And, yeah, they did it again on Friday because City again, they'll walk away from that game, thinking that they had enough chances to have scored more goals in that game. The fact that their only goal came from, you know, an own goal from Neath Charles as well, like that kind of sums up because they, I think they've had 17 shots. They've had three big chances. They've had people like Bunny Shore going through towards goal thinking she's going to score, she's going to score. But in the moment, Hannah Hampton stepped up and other people stepped up as well.

So, yeah, Chelsea, they are very much a juggernaut. And it's good to see that the first game in the season kind of feels like the last game of the one before as well. But yeah, we'll see how that goes. You're looking at a team that have built a lot of relationships now. Obviously, there's some players who were there on Dema Hayes. There's players that Bon Pastor brought in who really hit the ground running last season like Sandy Baltimore. But you see those relationships on the pitch. Even Ellie Carpenter, who just came in the summer, she had a phenomenal league debut.

And Bonpastor can rely on these players knowing that they're going to adapt and slot into her team really well. And to be fair, I think City deserved credit for it. being their first competitive game under a new manager, a few new players thrown in there as well. I think it was a tough debut for Jade Rose. I think it's hard to judge them until we've seen them play a number of games under this new manager because we're so used to a city group appointment coming in where there's a bit more of a template and I think it's hard and you're a new manager coming into that environment. So I think they can be fairly positive about the fact that there were moments where Chelsea were briefly, you know, on the rocks, especially set pieces.

I think Alex Greenwood's free kicks were causing a lot of problems and that's how they got that one goal. But for Chelsea, you know, Hannah Hanson's in ridiculous form. She looks so confident with everything. And those connections on the pitch are so blended. Everyone knows where each other is. And I think that's really hard when other teams just aren't getting there. I've got a lot of new players that are trying to gel.

And I think probably London City, Lundness is the perfect example of that, made 15 additions in the summer. and then you see exactly kind of what it takes to build that cohesion. You mentioned London City Lionesses. It always felt like it was going to be a tough WSL opener for them in a new division with all the new players and playing gets an Arsenal side who are obviously still riding so high after their European Champions League final success.

Yeah, it's a tough opener. I think when it comes to London City Lionesses trying to stamp their mark on the league, they would have really relished going to the Emirates. in what is always a big crowd and get that primetime treatment being on BBC and all that kind of stuff. I think they would have really been excited about that. They'll probably come away and be a little frustrated

about how they defended, especially when Steina Blackstanias came on and they would just run ragged really by her. And some lessons. You know, there are some experienced players in that team, but there's a lot of new players in that team. So it's about how they continue to build as a group. and I think they will struggle against a lot of the top sides,

so probably the established top four, as we know, Chelsea, Arsenal, City United. But there should be enough quality there for them to pick up a lot of points elsewhere. But I do think a lot of the established teams maybe should feel confident that, okay, that backline, it's experienced, but it's a little on the older side, it's a little on the slower side, it's not the most mobile backline, as much as I'm not trying to throw shade when Nedden was finishing his career. But, you know, I think a lot of teams will look at that

and target that a little bit. But there's exciting, I think the first 15, 20 minutes of the game, I thought they looked much more comfortable and I think they just found it hard to match Arsenal. I think we all know which team Flo is talking about there, Nadim. And I can say it yes. I think we can all remember all the players that came in at QPR whilst you were there towards the end of it. I was there for six and a half years last.

I mean, how many players came through the revolving door and all the disastrous transfer windows and all the money spent, etc. How long does it take do you think for all of these players to gel, despite some of them being so experienced as Flo's saying? Yes, do you know, it's a great question. And for the players coming in, it's good that they have some level of experience, a lot of them, within playing in WSL, that is fantastic. But then it's the relationships, as Flo was saying earlier, like with Chelsea, some of the pairings have played together for a very long time.

You know, they've played 50 to 100 games together, maybe more. So yes, it's great that you might have 50 games yourself, but the person you're next to, you don't know what they're going to do in any particular situation. And I think the fact that, you know, it's coming, it's like a London city side who are trying to be ambitious as well. People want to do well.

There's not an expectation whereby they can just sit in the background and have no issues. Like they'll be checked on every single, season because of how significant they are because of their own ownership side of things, amongst other things as well. So yeah, it can take a while. And to be honest, for any football club, 15 signs in any window is far from ideal. But you just hope that within that there's going to be a core group, probably half or more, who'll be there in maybe two years' time. And so as a consequence, you don't have to bring in that many on a window to window basis. But overall, like,

I think the signings and stuff they did as well as they could, but going to the Emirates first game in the WSL, that is some task, especially when Arsenal, and you know, you mentioned this before, yourself, though, coming off the bench, they've got Marnum, they've got Ford, they've got Mead, they've got Black Stenius, they've got Taylor Hines.

Like, this jump up to WSL for the Lioness is, London City Lioness is completely different kettle of fish now. And obviously not every game will be like this, but there's going to be real quality going up against them every single week, looking to try and expose those weaknesses because some people do get slower as they get older. Not everyone, but some people. Nedham knows that I'm still traumatised

from that time at QPR as an eye So am I, all of us are It was a dark time It was, it was On Arsenal though You're obviously going behind at home But it does feel, doesn't it? That maybe do we think that

If there is the side that's going to challenge Chelsea It is going to come from Arsenal As the leader sort of of that chasing pack this season? I think so I still don't think they did enough in the summer transfer window. They obviously bought in Olivia Smith, who, I mean, what a debut. She scored a phenomenal goal and showed why she's worthy of that price tag. But I worry about them defensively and also potentially in the midfield area as well.

I think when you just look at Chelsea's depth compared to Arsenal's depth, I think Arsenal have shown with their Champions League win that on their day, they can beat the best team in the world. but the league is a marathon, not a sprint, and I just worry about Arsenal across the whole length of the season, whether they have enough to match Chelsea. I don't think the gap will be as big as we saw last season. I think Chelsea will lose a game in the WSL,

but for me, Chelsea, I think, are still the dominant force in this league. We will see. We haven't even mentioned Manchester United either, who of course got a 4-0 win over Leicester earlier today as well. Nadem, thank you, Flo. Thanks for taking us down a lovely trip down memory lane of the disastrous years of QPR. Thank you.

That's it for this episode of the Football Daily. The next one will be the Monday Night Club with Kelly Cates, Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Androsst Townsend. The Women's Football Weekly has found a new home. It's a very own feed. We've called it, unsurprisingly, BBC Women's Football Weekly. We'll continue to bring you the latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game.

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