Football Daily - England's Toney and Chalobah are aiming for World Cup selection

Episode Date: June 5, 2025

Hear from inside the England camp as Ivan Toney and Trevoh Chalobah try to impress manager Thomas Tuchel.Senior Football Reporter Ian Dennis hosts discussion around the latest squad to face Andorra in a World Cup qualifier and Senegal in a friendly.He is joined by Football Correspondent John Murray and Rob Draper from The Observer.TIMECODES: 00:33 - England's training base in Catalunya 04:00 - Tuchel's England intentions 07:55 - Ivan Toney 16:10 - Trevoh Chalobah 21:20 - Other England defenders 23:35 - Lee Carsley's new contract as Under-21 bossCOMMENTARIES: Saturday 7th June - 1700 - Andorra v England in the World Cup qualifiers - BBC Radio 5Live Tuesday 10th June - 2000 - England v Senegal in an international friendly - BBC Radio 5Live

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily Podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds. Welcome and a warm welcome literally from Spain for this bonus edition focusing on England's forthcoming games, a World Cup qualifier against Andorra and then a friendly next week at Nottingham Forest City ground against Senegal. And it goes without saying that both games will be live on BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Sounds. England are based in Catalunya since the start of the week ahead of Saturday's game in Barcelona and very soon we'll hear from Trevor Chalaba and Ivan Tony but first our correspondent John Murray and Rob Draper from The Observer.

And I would imagine John that this setting you might be back here in 2031 because the Cameral Golf Course is where the Ryder Cup may be held then. Yes, not been here before, Championship Golf Course. I've been told that Pep Guardiola has been here this week with his brother, there's a charity event that they do, so they've been here earlier this week. I've seen him at the Ryder Cup, but looking at it from where we are now, we've got the clubhouse just behind us, which is a sort of very, I'd almost say it's like a 70s style building. Long, wide, lots of wood, big veranda at the top, lovely chairs down at the bottom, and then a lawn that runs down here to where we are next to the first tee. In fact we're under the umbrella of the starters area at the

first tee. You've read my mind I was just going to say go into your golf mode and describe the scene. Well there we are, I've already done. But it's beautifully wooded, it slopes away down from where we are and actually the coast here is not far away is it? In fact you were in Girona this season. Yes I was with Liverpool in the Champions League. It's got to say it seems very pleasant here doesn't it? It's idyllic isn't it? The hotel was pretty nice as well I was in the pool earlier and suddenly Jordan Henson, Jude Bellingham and Trent popped up to have a little swim so I didn't didn't annoy them I just kept doing my lengths and kept my head down but yeah I imagine the players are really enjoying this after a long

season it does feel like they're kind I know obviously they've got the games coming up but it being Andorra it does give them the chance to do some R&R bonding thing as well we'll talk later when we're about heat tests and things like that they are doing some hard work but I think a lot of it is about establishing the culture of Thomas Tuchel isn't it? I think they've had a day off today haven't they, the players? But John, give us a quick breakdown of what they've been doing since they arrived here. Well, that's just it, as Rob says.

This is a real opportunity, isn't it? He only started in the job on the 1st of January. They had the matches in March. So I think he seized on this opportunity, when it's the qualifier against Andorra on Saturday to get them here and and there is a point to it because the idea is that it will in a way give them an idea of what the kind of conditions would be if and when England qualify for the World Cup in the

various places they'll play in the United States. So one of the first things they did as we know they all came together on on Sunday there was a trip to the, a bonding trip to the Spanish Grand Prix, but then it was into it on the Monday morning and this heat tent testing that we've heard about, which again is to sort of gauge where the players are and how they would respond to the conditions that they would find in very very humid and hot conditions in America. So that heat tent testing took place on Monday morning and that is, so if I turn around and look beyond the clubhouse that's where the pitches are here and that's

where they did that. They trained late in the day on Monday and Tuesday and yesterday there was a bit more of a sort of down day as it were and then they'll train in the earlier slot but I think the fact that they are spending a week together really more than a week together leading up to the match in Nottingham next Tuesday I think if you're in this squad you've really got a chance to let Thomas Tugel know what you're all about yeah this is going to be valuable time for him isn't it because that is a commodity that is in short supply in the build-up to the World Cup next year.

Well that's exactly the point he made when he took over wasn't he because I've only got so many days with that I can't remember what it was but it's like 40 days or something with them which is an incredibly short amount of time so yeah these sort of seven eight nine days they spend together I think I'd almost go for it. I think it's gonna be hard to get in the squad now don't you? If you're here, no one's nailed down, no price. There will be a bolter next season, someone who we're not thinking of who will be playing so well that it just would be stupid to leave them out. But I think for fringe players who've been left behind now and I think he'd have wanted them here

if he was really thinking about them seriously. So unless you massively improve your form, I think we'll begin to see what Thomas Tuchel's squad looks like. He did say at the squad announcement that the idea would be that there is this week, but he said, and then in the autumn, September, October, November, while the qualifying campaign comes to an end, he said that'll be much more intense, which I think is interesting because that's at a very intense period of the football season, when isn't it intense? But you know that's throughout the course of the league phase of the Champions League now as well. He clearly is going to be very demanding of them in those matches.

The other important aspect of this trip to Spain is taking advantage of the warm weather to ready themselves, because that's gonna be such a factor, isn't it, in America? Yeah, well, we all remember, well, sorry, those of us who are old enough remember 1994 and watching it, and was it Steve Staunton, the archbishop, it just looked like he was going to explode,

some of the arch lads playing in, that was Miami in the afternoon, wasn't it? And you get a game like that, a fixed-year list thrown up like that, where you're playing in the afternoon wasn't it and you've you get a game like that a fixture list thrown up like that Well, you're playing the afternoon and I think for two short speaking to John McDermott the other day and they obviously take it Really really seriously because high-pressing style full of energy all the rest of all the things Everybody wants to see him bring to England. Well, he's aware. He's not an idiot You're not gonna have to do that at three o'clock in the afternoon in Miami So they're gonna have to find different ways of playing. And you know think about it where we are now in

the first few days of June this time next year that is going to be right in the middle of the build-up to the World Cup so the Champions League final next season which is May the 30th you know if he has a scenario unlike this season where there are two English clubs in the final of the Champions League that is going to back right up to the time that they are then going to be going to America and that is the plan to play matches there in the build-up to the tournament so you know that there is a lot for him to be bearing in mind about what's going to happen in one year from now and that will fly by. But Rob I'm sure you remember when England went to Erdening for altitude training before that must have been the World

Cup in South Africa in 2010. They went to Miami in 2014 to prepare themselves for the Brazil World Cup didn't they? They spent a week there and it didn't necessarily work for them in either of those two tournaments. No I mean best preparations can lead to erratic results, can't they? I mean, yeah, and all these England managers, all these England teams, they spend ages researching their stuff, but ultimately, your character on a pitch, how you keep the ball, how you move the ball, what form, who's injured, who's not, what form you're in, those are the determining factors.

But that said, you've got to get the external factors right. You've got to do the best you can. But it can make England around in Two games in Brazil weren't they despite loads of preparation if you're gonna go the full distance and that is obviously the plan This World Cup this next World Cup will be a week longer than any other previous World Cup that we've seen and if you're gonna Tack another probably best part of a fortnight onto the front of that That's a long time Well Rob earlier just talks about the importance of being in this squad for selection for the

World Cup next year and Ivan Tony of course is one of those players who's had a recall and he's been speaking with John Murray and he's been reflecting on the last year. Yeah it's been a crazy one but nothing short of enjoyment you know. It's been our ups and downs but it's going good it's going good. A very obvious and simple question what's it been like? Well yeah obviously making the transition the first move being to Saudi it was a big one obviously people were going to think I was going to cope how's it going to be but as you see from the stats they speak for themselves and it's been a good season we're winning the trophy also it was a big thing for me obviously I haven't't won many trophies but being part of that one was a

big moment. And for Thomas Tuchel, that was clearly highly significant as well, wasn't it? So that has served you very well. Yeah, I mean you want to have title winners around in your squad and there's a lot of players in this team that's one something this season in their career so yeah it's good to be amongst that. Just going back to what it's been like, has life been completely different? Has it been kind of what you expected? It feels for us, looking from this distance, to be such a leap.

Yeah, being back and around the boys is good. It was a change in terms of the humidity and the heat. But yeah, I mean, as a player, you adapt to these things, you know, and you're taking your stride. And yeah, it's always good. You have to keep positive and keep working hard and that's what I've been doing. How long did it take for you to feel settled?

I'd say a month. Obviously it's always gonna be tough moving like that. You need to get your place sorted, these kind of things, and obviously your family and all this. But yeah, obviously, like I said, you're there for football and you have to focus quite quick. There's no time to be thinking about things off the pitch. You have to focus. And I did that after a couple of weeks and yeah, I've come good. Did you think with that move that maybe England had gone? No, I never think negative. I always think positive of me, no matter what situation,

on and off the pitch. And yeah, I mean, if you're scoring, you're playing well and then obviously you're going to still be in the manager's mind and my main focus is keep focused on myself, keep scoring goals and keep playing well. And the manager's mind and my main focus is keep focusing on myself, keep scoring goals and keep playing well. The manager recognised that and hence why I got the recall, which is obviously the best feeling. Did you laugh when he said, I've not been able to go and look at him so I'm going to bring him here to see what he's all about? I mean it's understandable if you don't go there he'll bring someone to you, right? But no, I appreciate that that I just have to keep working hard here and who knows what can happen. When did you first hear from him?

I didn't get the recall the first camp the camp before which I respected highly so you did he did speak to you then? He did speak to me when he took charge and that must be nice then to know that you were in the plans yeah of course of course I mean I've been in the plans before and I just have to keep amongst it and keep scoring goals and keep playing well. I mean, there's a lot of great players, a lot of great strikers that I've seen in the round of mix but I have to focus on myself and hopefully I can stay amongst it now and get myself to the World Cup. So when you got the call this time you were, uh-huh, were you?

Yeah, I didn't know where to answer because last time I didn't get good news. It was good, it was good and I'm back here with the boys which is a great feeling. And actually you've touched on it already, the fact that you play in those conditions. People will be thinking that that is potentially advantageous for the conditions that there would be in the World Cup? Yeah, I mean you'd think so, but like I said, I have to get myself to the World Cup first and use the advantage there, but like I said, the manager knows what's best for the whole squad, not just individually, and we'll all have to respect the decision with the team

that he chooses. Yeah, so that has obviously become a target for you then, a goal next year? For sure, I think it's a target for everybody, but like I said, I think positive. Who knows if I get a chance, I'll obviously be there to take it. If not, I wish the team all the best, but I think positive and hopefully I'm there. Good to see you back. Lovely. Thanks, Ivan. journalists. Come to do an interview with him and normally it's an hour chat. He comes in and says what are you looking forward to having for an hour? He says no it's not gonna be an hour. We've got a show to do. Nah, 20 minutes. The Euroleagues only on the Football Daily listen on BBC Sounds.

The Football Daily podcast on BBC Sounds. Here we are in the Camerol Golf Resort ahead of England's World Cup qualifier on Saturday against Andorra. How did you find him John? Yeah, he's got a great voice for radio. I always say that about him. Not seen him for a year. I think I interviewed him after the final in Germany in Berlin last year I mean it's and clearly as we heard there Thomas to call has been in touch with him all throughout throughout the The course of the time that he's been the England manager. So from that point of view, it's not a surprise But I think as I mentioned during the course of the time I was speaking to him there

I think for Thomas to call to admit that he has not actually been to Saudi Arabia to see it That's quite a punt to bring him in Rob Draper from the Observer is also still with us Were you surprised that he got the recall bearing in mind he does play in the Saudi Pro League? It's where international careers go to die. You feel isn't it? But so yeah, I was but Then I look at the profile of who he is and what he brings to the team and what difference he could make and you know is anyone else really grabbing that role in the Premier League I mean obviously Ollie Watkins has had a good season but you know he's different type of forward and you go why would you

not if you feel he's playing at that level and obviously his side's just won the Asian Champions League equivalent haven't they? If you feel he's still got it and I can't see how in six months he would necessarily have lost it then why not? He said to me last week when I was asking him about personality, character and personality, Thomas Tuchel, he said all of my teams have been built on I think he said on the shoulders of character and personality and Ivan Toney strikes me as someone who has as we say Rob got a bit about him Well, that's the penalty taking isn't it? You see that the thing that has struck me about too cool in these first few months He's under squad and I knew we knew him a little bit at Chelsea. Obviously, so it's not a huge surprise, but

he's so into character and the culture and the charisma because initially when he first came to you think technocratic coach Oh, he's all about the double pivots and you know, of course he can talk about all that But he's he's way way beyond being that sort of technocratic man. He's only interested in tactics He really feels like he really looks into her eyes and I think that's why that's why I think people are here this week Otherwise, he's saying you've got a chance and once you aren't here I think he's looked at them and gone I'm not sure you're the person I want in my squad. But he said all the right things hasn't he about the players he left out saying well I've had a look at them now I want to have a look

at someone else I'm with you Rob I think. When you finished the interview though I just said to him I said what's that the Saudi Pro League like and I think he said something that and it wasn't obviously on tape but he said people are quick to judge and I think that I mean the other aspect we've just been talking about the heat is that that is going to be an advantage to him isn't it the fact that he's he can cope with the heat you would think so wouldn't you or you know are we jumping to a conclusion there but surely it must be an advantage must be but the point is is that he doesn't think it was a negative step by going there. No. And also he said he thought it took him a month

to get ready and prepare and get used to the the conditions that he found in Saudi Arabia. Before John spoke to Ivan Tony I caught up with Chelsea's Trevor Chalabah who's had his first call up to the England squad and when Ivan Tony reflects on his last 12 months, what about Trevor Chalabah, the highs and lows of his last year? It's been a very good season, obviously for me personally as well,

playing at two different clubs, which is what I expected, but yeah, it was good at both clubs and had two different experiences. At the same time, ended up doing well, so yeah, it's been good. If you rewind 12 months ago, how did you feel at the time when you were left out by Chelsea were you angry, were you disappointed?

For me I see it as part of football, it's part of life. Sometimes you're going to get things out of your control and what you can do is just focus on the future and focus on what I can do to get myself ready and I didn't see it as a negative or a bad thing, I just took it into my stride, took it as a positive and got my head down and just focused on what I could do, wherever I went to and that was obviously Palace. Did you go to Selhurst Park though with a point to prove? Not necessarily a point to prove because I've been at Chelsea for the past three years and

I've played in Champions League, played in Premier League so for me it's not nothing to prove, just to get games and not to just sit around and do nothing, you know, but just to get games and just show my colleagues what I've been showing over the years. Well you certainly showed that in the second half of the season when you returned to Chelsea, didn't you? Because arguably you were one of their better players. Yeah, for me it's important every training session, every game to show what I can do and coming back, obviously knowing the players, knowing the manager, I've slotted in easily and for me I just wanted to help the team and just continue to show my level that I

know I can get to. And how good was it, you know, a European winner now as well as Champions League qualification? Yeah, it was nice to get a trophy, you know, trophies and playing in finals as professional footballers is something we want to be doing every season. Competing, winning at the highest level and competing at the highest level. That's what we do. What about your future? What's next? I've still got three years left.

I just focus on drugs at the moment. Whatever happens, happens. I'm surprised that there's still speculation about your future. For me, I just try to focus on the now and leave all the noise or anything out there that's surrounding me and my future and for me as I said I'm still the Chelsea player and I'm looking forward to the club world cup. Not distracting you then? No. The thing is though is that your next move is crucial isn't it because all of a sudden you've got a World Cup place that is up for grabs? Yeah definitely, For me, getting my first call-up has been amazing.

Getting a call-up is good, but staying in the team, as you know, is not easy. So it's important that I, for next season, if I'm at Chelsea or not, then I get ready for that and I keep performing. Has Thomas Tuchel spoke to you? I mean, he's probably one of the most important people in your career, isn't he? Given what's gone on in the past? Yeah, he spoke. He's delighted for me and said I really deserved it. Having him at Chelsea before I knew how he works, we got on well. It's nice to be with him again. What was your reaction when you found out you'd been given the call-up? Yeah, I was I didn't know what to say. You know, I started crying but um, yeah for me is

Something I've been dreaming of I've been through the ranks through on the 16th time the 21 and to finally get a call-up It's been one of my goals as well, especially this season and I'm glad to be here I bet your family must be delighted because there's not many people who have two brothers who will have played for England Yeah, yeah, they'll be the mean also my brother as well, obviously, he playing for England also, and I've been having those gaps. But yeah, it's been amazing to hopefully follow his steps and achieve more. And of course the Club World Cup is on the horizon as well,

so it's a busy period for you. Yeah, it's a busy period of football this season, and at the end of the day, we can't complain. It's what we love to do, you know, it's what I love to do. And it's another big tournament to compete at the highest level against top teams, so yeah, it's another opportunity. Great for the development's what I love to do. And it's another big tournament to compete at the highest level against top teams, so yes, another opportunity.

Great for the development of you as an individual, isn't it? Definitely, playing against teams where maybe you may not play off during the season. And yeah, it's good to go out there, see different conditions, and yeah, it's another chance to compete at the highest level. Rob, I spoke a lot there about the uncertain future that Trevor Chalab was facing and he's

saying I'm not going to be distracted I just want to focus on the here and now and obviously he's got the Club World Cup which is just weeks away with Chelsea after these two England games but given the way that he finished his season with Chelsea when he was recalled by them I'm surprised that his future is still up in the air. It seems really surprising doesn't it? Although few things surprise me about Chelsea's ownership model these days because I don't always understand it but yeah I agree it does seem odd and he's an England international coming out here you would have thought that would have been tied up by now I think it's and I think it's always hard we've been chatting Chiesa and obviously Crystal Palace hero

But there's going to be loads of talk about him this summer isn't there because he is In a vein of form that just makes you think as a Champions League player I think it's hard that maybe it's helpful to have ten days away To just focus on England and not worry about that But it's got to be at the back of your minds because the thing is Thomas Tuchel has actually said Regarding to Trevor Chalabert he's a step ahead of somebody like Harry Maguire. Yeah and we've already seen haven't we that he has players that he likes from his time at Chelsea and he's given them the

opportunities and it means I think that Trevor Chalabert with the opportunity he's got this week to steal a march on perhaps one or two others who aren't here and obviously Mark Gaye's not here, Jared Brantthwaite would probably have been with the under-21s. I personally feel if Jared Brantthwaite steps on again I think he's had an excellent season and of course players will come to the fore, perhaps he'll come to the fore. Another person we should mention, John Stones, who has been here with England this week. He's now gone home, but highly significant I feel that he wanted to have. Even if he was just working on his rehabilitation, he wanted John Stones here with the squad.

Does though feel that there's a changing of the guard, particularly with the defence? Yeah, absolutely And he kind of feel if stones is fit and maybe mark gay you kind of thing is that that's probably what you're looking at If you could project forward 12 months to now, it's like that their best center-half partnership But yeah with Harry moving on I mean the fact that McGuire's not this is we're talking about the squad Aren't we and that Harry would be one of those players? We just go well if he's not here then does kind of feel like that's probably it for him and Ness something extraordinary happens next season and he's playing reasonably well. It's not like he's playing badly is it? It feels like De Koolstead's just looked at that and gone, that's not actually for

me and you know maybe he thinks he's not the player he was three years ago or something but it's not like Harry McGrath's had a United during the terrible season but no one would really pin that on Magrads so Marley Luskely coming in, obviously a new generation, kids coming through, the squad that Gareth built up is that's the nature of international football though isn't it, it changes very quickly. In the conditions they find in America you are going to want a squad and a team of players who are comfortable on the ball, aren't you? And we know that that's John Stones all over.

And we've seen John Stones step into midfield. That might be something that Thomas Tuchel is going to have a look at as well. But again, he needs Stones to be injury free next season, certainly. If he could have a full season and be part of a Manchester City that looks more like the Manchester City we know, that's important for England. The other significant aspect from an England point of view is Lee Carsley, the Under-21 head coach has signed a new deal to take him through to the 2027 European Championships. Yeah, we dealt with him closely didn't we in the autumn when he got his chance as the interim coach and I think it's an interesting career move because at the time the feeling was that he was in the

frame to get the job, the senior job at the start of the year obviously I think it became clear quite quickly that wasn't going to be the case but also I think the feeling was that well there'll be a club job for him if he wants that but no he's decided to stick with what he's got. And of course in 12 months time when Thomas Tuchel will be leaving after the World Cup who's to say that Lee Carsley again wouldn't be necessarily mentioned in those circles once more. Well the way the FA were talking previously you thought there was a natural succession plan and then they went and got Donnors 2 calling.

Well maybe that's so it's difficult to project in but also it was in the Republic of Ireland job wasn't it? There was some big jobs knocking around for him. I'm not we were talking about I'm not a big fan of giving I know they've done very well but I'm not a big fan of giving people contracts before tournaments because then when it all goes horribly wrong you're left we were talking about Fabio Capello the FA proudly announcing they'd pinned him down just before 2010 to stay on and this was gonna be a glorious new year and then of course it was just some of the most shocking football you've ever

seen in a tournament. So I'm sure it won't be that Lee I'm sure you know they're also losing a couple of key players at Club World Cup which is going to affect them but he still hopefully will have a good tournament but yeah I mean he's clearly for you'd think two years at least is thinking this is probably where I'm going to be. And it's a tournament we'll be covering on Five Live? It will yes the under 21 European Championship with England defending their title so yes that comes pretty much immediately after the Senegal game in Nottingham next Tuesday. So yes, looking forward to that. John, Rob, thank you very much for your time.

The Football Daily will have reaction to England's Women's Squad announcement, as well as the last Euroleagues of the season. And we'll have commentary from the Andorra and Senegal game on Saturday and Tuesday on Five Live and BBC Sounds. On BBC Sounds… This is Sports Strangest Crimes From the man who tried to buy cricket One night, one game, winner take off, 20 US million dollars

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