Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Benfica’s goalscoring goalkeeper & Napoli & Marseille out of Europe

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Balague, James Horncastle and Mina Rzouki to discuss all things European football, including last night's final round of Champions League group stage fixtures.The team delve into Benfica's late goal which secured them qualification into the playoffs, how Napoli and Marseille got knocked out entirely and whether Bayern should be considered as one of the favourites for the Champions League.They're also joined by Archie Rhind-Tutt, former Benfica player Diogo Luis, Matt Spiro and Christian Falk throughout the episode.00:40 - Thoughts on the Champions League league phase format 03:50 - Archie Rhind-Tutt on Anatoliy Trubin's winner for Benfica 09:30 - Diogo Luis on Benfica and Sporting Lisbon qualifying for Champions League knockouts 18:00 - Napoli knocked out of Europe and Antonio Conte's European record 25:30 - Matt Spiro on Marseille and Roberto De Zerbi 33:40 - Christian Falk on Bayern Munich losing their unbeaten Bundesliga record and their Champions League hopes 39:50 - Schalke sign Edin Dzeko 43:45 - What would the panel change about the Champions League format?

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Ben Fika's goalkeeper scoring in the last minute to sneak Jose Marino's side into the playoff round. Sporting's late winner taking them through automatically Napoli and Marseilles out all together. We are going to have guests joining us from Paris, from Lisbon, from Munich with us throughout. Guillem Balagay, the Athletics, James Horncastle and Mina Razuki. Hi, everybody. Good evening. Oh, I'm so excited. This is what it's all about.

And I know James that there were detractors and there'll always be detractors for the new phase and the Swiss model and all of that. This was undeniably a box office night of European football. Yeah, and I think it gave us one of the great moments not only in this format history, but Champions League history with what happened in Lisbon because Anatoly Trubin has become the Champions League's kind of

Jimmy Glass figure. overnight. For the listeners who don't remember, Jimmy Glass, a goalkeeper for Carlisle United, kept them up in the Football League in 1999, I think, with a last minute goal.

Against his former club as well. Against his former club. And it gave us another great Jose moment. And Jose is probably the most memeable coach of all time. But to see him reach for the person nearest to him, when the goal went in, and for that person to be a kid, a Benfica ball boy, it was just, it was magnificent.

Guillaume, you appear to have a tactics board behind you, but it looks like it's been drawn by a five-year-old. Well, I wanted to decorate what it is at like a very, like, empty room, so I thought I'll do that, but you didn't give me much time. Well, you're going to draw something on it or something? Yeah, I was just going to put the Perfect 11 for Biggles or United, but you don't have time. It looks like the kind of thing that someone would send into Blue Peter, hoping for a Blue Peter badge,

but it'd be so bad that they have to say, listen, I'm really sorry. We just, we simply can't do it. Anyway, how are you, Guillem, all right? Yes, all good. All good, all good. Lovely. Right from Naples.

You love the Champions League format already, but this must just have done even more for your love affair with the Swiss model. Yeah, you know. That wasn't made to sound like that. Oh, okay. I missed a bit. But yeah, you know how streaming companies now are putting stuff life and that's why they want us all in the same place,

talking about the same thing. And that's more or less what happened, where we were in the fly zone at the end of the Napoli Chelsea game and, of course, the Mephickagall came in. We were all around at television. We were all shouting, we were all talking to each other. And it's very, very difficult to replicate that feeling in the group stages, in the previous...

way of qualifying. But you can do it in here. I was also last year in Villa Park where they also needed to know the results on the other games. There's nothing like it. I think that probably can be improved, but the system, yeah, very much up for it.

I've gone bright red. I promise that wasn't intentional. Like a Swiss model. Good. Got to start with Benfica clearly. So it was Anatoly Trubin, as James mentioned, scored that last minute goal, snuck them into the playoff round.

on goal difference. We're going to have with us, Diogo Luis, who played under Jose Marino at Benficus. Absolutely the perfect guest. The perfect man for now is you, Archie Wringtuk.

Good evening. Evening. You were there. Just paint some pictures for us, man. I've been privileged to see some stuff in a stadium, but this is in the top five easy. I just, I cannot describe the moment when

Trubin A is trying to waste time 60 seconds before this and seeing the Benfica fans lose their minds thinking, look, we have gone through some stuff in European competition, but this might take the biscuit if we are one goal away and our goalkeeper doesn't know the fact that we need to score right now, to then him thinking, okay, well, everybody's shouting at me for a reason. Oh, I need to go up. Okay, we'll go up then.

I think sometimes when you see the Stadio de Lusch on TV, you see the fans moving, but you don't quite get the idea of the real volume in that stadium. And after each goal prior to that, it was an explosion of noise. So imagine something which is even bigger than that, followed by this swarm of players just trailing magnetically around the movements of Trubin,

who, I have to say, a very confident celebrator for someone who'd never scored a goal before. I thought that. It was like a centre forward scoring, wasn't it? It was like, yeah. But Archie, didn't Jose tell you that he believed that Trubin had this in him? He'd seen it. It was going to come.

His goal was coming. He said it. He said it. He's like, look, when we were away at Porto a few weeks ago, he nearly did it. And I was like, I just thought, is there anything that Jose and Murillo can't say, well, you know, we weren't secretly planning it? Was it clear? Was it claimed a bit of the victory? Is that what he was doing, you think?

It was mad. And I think that Jose Mareno said it best in his first words in our interview where he was just like, I've seen, I get deja vu with everything, but not with this. And I think that that for me is the message here. It was beyond even Jose Mourino's powers to recognize what exactly was going to occur and what did occur. It's these moments of beautiful chaos, which you cannot stage and script, which I think just always keeps us coming back

not just to European football but just a football in itself. Correct me if I'm wrong, Archie, but it seemed like not only as you suggested, the goalkeeper goes into the other box, not fully knowing exactly why, but also there is the fact that Morino makes the two substitutions, the last two substitutions he can make

because he'd been told the result 3-2 was enough. And then he gets told, a few seconds later, when the players have come in, that no, that he needs an extra goal and he doesn't have substitutions. There is that, and there is also how he celebrated in front of Arbelloa quite clearly. But then he managed to went back to Arbelloa and grabbed him in a hug that it looks like Arbeola was celebrating the qualification of Enfica.

He was just hugging him and telling him apologising for the exuberant celebrations in front of him. I mean, he's enjoyed every single second of this tie with Real Madrid, and I bet he's looking forward to it. He was just, as he does all the time in the press conference before the game, just winning everyone. talking anecdotes or how he could have return to Real Madrid and again, after the game as well he just played the humble card it's still

great show to have Marino around Guillem, if Jose hadn't jumped straight into the Benfica job after leaving Venabace and was still available would he be the coach from Madrid? James, he's still available because even though he's got a contract until 2027, he's

He also has a close by which he can leave if he decides to at the end of this season. And he's thinking, I guess he was thinking of Portugal if they fell in the World Cup. But just leave it at that. Actually, before we let you go, what will stay with you from last night? I'm going to find the broadcastable version of this, which is seeing Marino, seeing Marino got up to Dean Housen and saying something, hell, straight after. Flipping heck, something like that, yeah. Yes.

Set right initials. Golly gosh. That was quite something. Along with coming out at the stadium, there were Benfica fans still kind of milling around, partly in shock at what just happened. And a guy coming up to me with a Trubin Cup and going, A, they were kind of trying to find out first if I was Spanish, because I think they wanted to laugh at me, if so. Once he realized I wasn't, he was like, Trubin, look.

And I was like, yeah, you got him on a cup. And I was like, I'll take a photo and then make. Maybe this will settle a situation down. He's like, oh, now have a photo with me. So I was like, okay, sure, why not? So I think it was, it's that element of the fandom where you just don't know what to do with yourself after such a moment like that.

And then also I think seeing how that moment showed a certain humility in Jose de Marino being like, well, I mean, there's only so many things I can do, but I don't think that even he could have anticipated that that was going to happen. spectacular night that we will always remember. Archie, I mean, you might have been part of this club already, but congratulations, if not on joining the I've seen a goalkeeper score club.

I'm not in that club, so I'm very jealous. But yeah, wonderful night. Thank you very much for chatting to us. Great to have you on. Cheers, Steve. Let's speak to Diogo Luis, who was given his debut by Jose Marino during his first spell at Benfica back in 2000. Hello, Diego.

Hello, hello. Thank you for the invitation. It's a pleasure to talk about football. I was hearing what you were saying and I confess I agree with most of the things you said but just let me say one thing. Okay, Trubin scored an epic goal. It was an epic game.

In my opinion, it was the best game in this stadium for Benfica. Benfica dominated Real Madrid. The result could be four, five, six, seven, two because Benfica created a lot of chances. If Pavlides was in a good day, 20 minutes Benfico was already winning by two or three new. And then the epic moment happened when Trubin scored that goal. It was amazing because I think if you write a movie, this was the perfect movie.

The perfect. So it was a great game. And as I said to you, I think it's the best game in this stadium because everybody will remember this game for a long time. I have exactly that, exactly what you're saying about everything that you said about Benfica. And I just wondered, because they've been through a lot and in many ways when it was about the presidency and whether or not Rui Costa was going to take it, it was sort of, you know, sacking a coach, bringing Jose Marino. It was seen as a Hail Mary, a way of confirming his presidency.

He was accused of only hiring Jose Marino at the time to sort of make sure that he kept the job. He obviously said, no, I always put Benfica first. But did this flip the script? Is everyone now on board with Jose Mrenio? It's hard for you to get there, to get to the top, and then it's more harder to be there, okay? What I want to mean to you is that in the last four games, Benfica play well.

A coach in Portugal is different from a coach in England, because in Portugal, the coach is really important for the balance, financial balance, you know, because you have to value players, you have to put the players in the have you, then you have to sell it. Because it's the way that Portuguese live, okay? So the expectations around Jose Moringo was too high.

In the last 10 years, their teams didn't play good football. He didn't win too much. But when the monster, Rosemoreno, the king, arrives to Portugal, nobody wants to know that. The supporters from Benfica looked at Zemarina as the savior. This man is going to bring us again to the victories. So he has that pressure, that pressure. So when Benfica started to play offensively, when Benfica started to look at himself and to understand,

that he has to create the different kinds of situations to finalize, Benfica became much better. And the last four games, Benfica is playing really good. And yesterday was the top of the game because it was really good. Diogo, can you just give us kind of a bit of a personal insight into Jose then? Because this is something which is totally unique to you. You were one of the first kind of Akasmi players that he put in the team at Benfica, maybe the first. The first. The first.

I thought so. So how do you see him now compared to the man who gave you your debut back where it all began? Oh, you know, now I'm a commentator in the Sienian, and I make a lot of critics when the things do go bear, you know? And I think Jose Mouring is a little bit angry with me. Oh, no. It is normal. Yeah, it's normal. Because, you know, I'm independent.

I have, what I have to say, I say, okay. So it's my way. I look at Jose Morino and what I miss of him is the happiness. I think Jose Morino in the first years was really happy. He had something different from others. He knew how to communicate in the dressing room. He knew how to communicate. The people inside of the dressing room was more controlled, were more controlled.

Now, I think it's harder for Jose Morino to control the players. And another difference is that the football grew up. And now Jose Morino train people that earn millions. So Jose Morino doesn't have the same property to talk to them as he had a few years ago. Because, you know, when he starts to Porto, nobody was known. So he said, okay, you want to grow up, you want to go to other teams? You have to do this. And they do.

Now if he went to Benfica, he said, okay, you want to go up? And they say, okay, I won't. You have to do this. And they say to him, I won't do that. I earn millions. If you don't put me, I go to another club and I will still earn millions. So I think it's more hard for Jose Moreno to enter in the players' minds. Let's talk a little bit about sporting before we let Diogo Luis go. They, of course, won three, two with a late goal, athletic Bilbao.

This is a good one for you, Diogo. I think you'll like this, all right. So when you and I first met 11 years ago in Lisbon, you would retired as a footballer, to become involved in the financial markets. Now you're working for CNN doing finance and football. So right now, if you were buying stock in Lisbon football, would you buy it in Benfica under Jose Marino or sporting under Rui Borghese? If the question is about what happens in the field,

I would buy Rui Borgias. And I'm telling you why. Because if you look to sporting, sporting plays excellent football. You go to the stadium to see football, you know. And I think we look at England and we are always really happy to see the games in England because you have teams that want to win every time

and that play good football. Here in Portugal is not like that. So when you look to Ruy Borges and the way that he managed to put the team playing as he wants, remember that Ruudges came after Rubenamorin. Ruben Amourin was really charismatic, okay? And had that kind of play with three central back that is different for a new coach to change immediately.

So Rui Borges came, took his time, played with three back center, and then this year he turned everything around. And he, he, sporting players really good team, very good, really good football. They played with close eyes, okay? And that is the best compliment that I can give to a coach.

They look always to the goal, to score goals. They have eight injuries, eight injuries, okay? Eight injuries that could be in the 11, and they continue to play in the same way. They played against Paris de Jermain with a player that is Matthos Rays, that is left back, and is the third option as left back. And he played his central back, central back.

And he played really well. Yesterday, he entered again in 26 months, minutes. I'm telling you this guy, Rui Borgi is making an excellent job. Sporting doesn't have Giochers and no one remembers Ruehokers. No one remembers Ruben and the truth is that he values all the players, he values institutional the club and he plays really good football and I think when you look the kind of football that Morino now plays and the kind of football that Rui Borgis plays, I bet in Rui Borgias. But if you told me, you want to be, you want to be able to play. I think when you look, to the football that Morino

plays against Real Madrid-Borges, that's a different method. If the question was that, perhaps I would choose Jose Moringa. Diogo, it's been lovely to talk to you again. Thank you so much for coming on. My name's Steve Bratnell, a sister manager of Royal Oak FC.

You may have seen me online with Vinyl. Vinyl sensation. And now, the BBC have given me the chance to set the footballing world Bantara. This could be a great opportunity for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's the podcast? Brilliant.

Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant. We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm, gift it, gab. Games got the Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds.

On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleaks with Steve Crosman. It's the Euroleagues with Guillem Balagay, Mina Razuki and James Horncastle. We've had some fantastic guests, but we haven't heard enough from Mina and James and Guilla. So obviously the thing to get stuck into, Mina, is Antonio Conte and Napoli. For those that don't know, they lost 3-2 at home to Chelsea, their first home defeat since December 2024. And as a result of that in the Champions League, they are out of Europe altogether. What's going on, Mina? I feel like you came to me first because you were just looking for.

for somebody who's just going to attack and then. What? Don't you love Antonio Conte? I thought you were his biggest fan. You know me very well. Oh, no, is this a surprise? But I have to defend, well, I'm going to try to defend him because he only had 13 outfield players.

So, you know, and I thought their performance was very good against Chelsea, obviously not good enough. But, you know, this is a team that's basically like missing its entire squad, really. They just have no players right now with a very consistent. congested fixture list. But as the players themselves would have told you, they didn't lose it last night. And a pattern start to emerge from a coach

who has managed 17 victories, 17 losses and 17 draws in the Champions League. You expect more from a guy who leads teams to win titles. And then when Europe comes along, a pattern emerges. He has reached the quarter final only once with Juventus, and that was in 2013. And since then, it just seems like for a team that has spent money to invest in the players,

he would expect more. Does he have his alibi? Sure. But I still think it's not good enough to finish 30th in this league phase for the Sediah champions last season. No, look, I mean, with Antonio, I remember when I first started out in this job, there was a time when I didn't think I would see events be champions again. they'd been relegated to the second division. They came up.

Their reboots failed. They finished seventh in back-to-back years. And then Conte went around for dinner at Andre Angelli's house. He just got Siena promoted. So not an obvious candidate to take over at Juventus, took the job. And they were undefeated in the league. And this is the pattern in Conte's career, as much as people want to, you know, people want to shine a light on him kind of quote unquote failing in Europe is the choices he makes

you know he takes over teams that finish seventh are out of Europe altogether takes over teams that finished 13th after what he called a marino season and takes over teams that finish 10th and he goes into those clubs and basically doesn't say this but his record says it for him are win the league in the first year and I'll do it by breaking records and I think he's one of the best if not the best in the world at that and so whenever he comes up short in any other competition it leaves us all talking I always find the reactions to what happened last night for example very over the top they make out that Antonio is a tier two or a tier three country when I think Antonio is very much still.

Who makes that out, do you think? The Italian media. Right. No, I don't think it's just Italian media. I think it's online media. I think it's sections of our media here. People like me. No, no, I'm not saying that, Mena, because you've defended him.

I've tried. And I think we need to remember why these guys are special. I think Antonio is still special regardless of. of this record in Europe, which we can get into. I can go into more granular details is why it might not work for him at Juventus at Chelsea,

at Tottenham at Napoli, specifically in the Champions League. But I think we're very quick to diminish winners. We are talking about an exceptional short-term manager and I spent some time with him a couple of days ago and I just understood a little bit better why he does what he does. And it may explain some of the things,

some of the questions that you're asking there, Mina. Not every coach changes football. And because he's so laser focus in winning, he doesn't spend enough time on looking after players. So then you hear the likes of the O'Costa saying, something I cannot say, something to do with what happens in bad.

But also, that is a bitter man. Right? And Hazar will tell you the same. We'll criticize them. These are the creative players or the finishing players that he demands a lot of, he gets the bad press because of it. He will defend, because of this need to be seen

as a short-term Maverick, he will defend his CV against Spalletti when he says, oh, we beat the ex-champions when Juventus beat Napoli just last weekend. And he will be in a planted question, James was there, it was a planted question to Conte, not by you, by somebody else. in the press conference before the Napoli Chelsea game,

he came out with an answer to that because he wants to defend his CV because he wants to be seen as a short-term genius. But in that conversation I had with him, in which, by the way, we were talking and it's like, right, I've done the 10 minutes, no, keep talking. So we recorded more of that.

I went into the personal and then cameras went off and I continued with that. I'm trying to say, do you enjoy all this? because of course you leave after two years and of course in the second year worse than the first year and I bet your family's so far

and you suffer and all of that and he kind of sees his careers going in taking maximizing the potential of the side going away pay back to the family the one or two years that he hasn't been with them because literally right now he's not talking

to them they're there but he doesn't talk to them they don't exist in his life but then I said, okay, well, you're not enjoying this. Yes, well, kind of, I am, but I would not recommend it to anybody. So that's how he sees his career. And what happened in Napoli, the way he explained what's happening in Naples, yes, that is the, of course, the injuries that, as Minas said, meant that he had only 13 players really available.

And some of the players on the bench, nobody know who they were. Somebody was passing by, you want to be on the bench? There were five less players on the bench of Napoli compared to Chelsea. Anyway, there was that. But there's also the fact that he was saying, this is Napoli, by the way. The Super Cup has been won. This is a team that doesn't normally win.

Got to Juventus, gone to Inter, got to AC Milan and asked for winning all the time. We've done okay. And this year's about improving performances, but maybe too far away from the targets. And that's it. We won the league last year, right? In Napoli, okay, over the last five years,

they have won everything domestically. but it's still rare for them to win things. And so within the city, it was still very much like, hang on a minute, we won a trophy only a month ago. And that means something to Neapolitans in a way that we judge Conte on other things. But within the city, he's still very much like, that guy won a trophy only two months ago.

Paris-Sanderman are going to have to settle for the playoffs in the Champions League. They drew one-all against Newcastle United could easily have lost that game as well. on Newcastle had so many chances. Marseille, though, feel like the big story because they're out. They lost 3-0 to Club Bruges. Let's speak to Matt Spiro, French football writer, of course, host of the French football show. Good evening, Matt. Good evening, Steve. How are you doing? Yeah, really good, thank you. I did notice as well that there was a thing on the big screen in

Bruges wasn't there, where they had written, Felicitations, pour la qualification. Congratulations on qualification. I hope they didn't realize that actually they hadn't gone through instead of just rubbing it in. I don't think they were trying to rub it in, Steve. I mean, the added time went on and on, didn't it, in Benfica, and it was sort of painstaking for Marse fans. Obviously, last night's elimination was the worst of the lot. There was a couple of years ago where they managed to mess it up in the last minute

against Tottenham, thinking they needed to find a winner at the Velodrome, committing eight, nine players forward, and Tottenham scored on the counterattack, and actually a draw would have kept them in the Europa League. But, yeah, last night was absolutely awful. Marseilles basically knew they needed to get an okay result. You know, a win would be great. A draw would be fine. And as it turned out, you know, even a slender defeat would have been fine.

Two-nil down early on. This is a team, you know, that has had a lot of money invested into it. Roberto de Zerbe has a big squad with a lot of experience players and a lot of talent. They just didn't get to grips with Bruges. There was no real reaction, no show of pride. they went three nil down in the second half. And I think for Marseille fans, one of the worst images to come from this

was in the closing stages when Marseille are told that despite being three nil down, they are still edging through. They are in 24th position and three nil is going to be okay and they basically decide to stop playing. They basically decide to pass the ball around at the back. We're going to be okay,

trying to protect their three-nil defeat. And that is, you know, I think a pretty disgraceful way. to go out of Europe. And nobody could have predicted what was going to happen in Lisbon. Obviously, you've talked about the incredible scenario there. And Marseille, because of that goal from Benfica in the 98th minute, were dumped out.

And they felt absolutely ashamed. And I don't think that's too strong a word. Medibonatia didn't mince his words at all after the game. And he said, you know, he hopes the players feel ashamed. Roberto Zerby didn't train this morning with the side and the club says that he was ill. As you can imagine, from then on, there is all kinds of rumors about the future. But if anything happened, either him leaving or he get in the sack right now, how would you explain it?

What's gone so wrong? Why did Marseille look one way at the beginning? It looks another one now. When they peek, like you said, in the trophy, the champions, they look really good. But yesterday were bad. So what's happening there? There have been games where they've looked really good. You know, they beat PSG in the league as well.

A lot of the big games in Liga and they've been good and they seem to lose their focus in the smaller matches. They've dropped points at home against Aungé and Toulouse. I mentioned that non-game, were dreadful and they lost 2-0 at home. And it's been that inconsistency. I really wanted and still want to believe in Roberto Deserbie and this Marseille project because, you know, I feel like they do go together quite,

quite beautifully and Deserbie talks about the passion in Marseille. Yes, they're as mad as each other. Him being a former ultra, you know, he laps all of that up. But there have been too many games where the players don't seem to understand the tactics, where they're passive. Atalanta as well in the Champions League, you guys will probably remember that. In Liverpool last week, I know Liverpool, they turned in a strong performance at the Velodrome. But honestly, we turned up here in France thinking Marseille,

we're going to give this a real go and they didn't. And the Marse fans, that is all they've ever wanted to see a team attacking and trying and giving everything. And there have been too many matches. It really does feel like his message at times, important times, like last night in Bruges, is just not getting through to those players. I mean, Medi Banata said, don't blame the coach. You know, those Bruges goals, the cross came in.

There were four Marseille defenders for one attacker and nobody went for the ball. That's not the coach's fault. But at some point, you've got to say, why are they not psychologically, ready, why tactically are they being outthought by so many teams? I'm trying to read Mina and James's facial expressions amongst the Deserby discussion. So James, give us a flavour and then Mina will hear from you straight off the back. No, I think it's really interesting what Matt has said about last night's performance and the Liverpool performance because they seem to be a renunciation in some respects

of Roberta Deserbe's principles, everything that. we've been told about deserving. Now, I know Roberto feels that a lot of this kind of Roberto as philosopher king has been imposed on him. And he's become a lightning rod in a kind of a culture war in Italy between people who want teams to play a certain way and people just want results. In these two big Champions League games, he seems to have gone away from everything that makes clubs want to appoint Roberta Deserby. everything that makes players want to play for Roberta Deserbie. This isn't him. I guess the kind of game that Deserby always wants to play

requires a massive buy-in from all the players. They've got to really buy-in to everything he wants to say. They've got to show this clear desire to great motivation. But I feel like there's always this chaos. Like, I don't know, isn't it last week? He said something, isn't you're only attacking me because I'm Italian and I'm not French and I'm not getting enough respect? And then yesterday...

Usually the French coaches say that. So, you know, if I was Italian, you'd say I was great. So he turned that one around. Oh, so you do have that thing about like Sean Daj. Yeah, exactly. The old Sam Aladice is a classic. Matt will know this better than us, but he still doesn't speak any French in the media, does he? He still does all of his media in French, in Italian, which is a bug bear, yeah.

And I also wanted to ask you about... Sorry, Mina, go on. Sorry, I also wanted to ask you about Christoph Dugory's criticism of him. yesterday because that was like the harshest thing that I ever saw somebody say. He just said he's completely out of his depth. And I wanted to know how many people agree with that. Yeah, I was going to say, Mina, I mean, it was harsh from Doogari. But I think if you were shocked by what Dugari said, you know, I'm pleased you didn't hear what Eric Dimeco said because I was listening to the radio coming home listening to Dimeco. And there were words in there that, you know,

I wouldn't dare translate for this, for this. There's been a lot of that in the year at least tonight, to be honest. No, I don't know. I don't have that in my vocabulary. But I think there is a bit of a disconnect between players like Dugari, Dimeco's even older. You know, he was there when Marseille were dominating, you know, in the 80s and 90s. And they still, obviously, they see Marseille as a great football club, a great football club that they are. But a football club that is a long way off the elite now of European football. So, you know, what Marseille and Deserbe are doing isn't that horrendous. You know, the results aren't that bad.

They finished second last year behind PSG, which is pretty much as good as you can do. their third at the moment, seven points off title pace. So, you know, the reaction with Marseille, it always is quite extreme. But I think, you know, it's also because everybody here wants, I mean, everybody, apart from PSG fans, obviously, but people want Marseille to be a top football club again. It's been 14 years since they last won a trophy. And every time they seem to be doing something, seem to be building something, they just self-implode like they did last night.

Matt, lovely to have you with us. Thank you very much. Thanks. Topman, Matt Spiro, joining us there on the Euroleagues. Let's focus a bit on Germany, shall we? We will start with Bayern Munich and we'll talk about Shalker as we have our one and only sort of drift away from the Champions League tonight. Bayern beat PSV last night, though, so they went through in second. On Saturday, though, a shock first defeat at the season.

They lost to their Bavarian rivals, Augsburg, came from behind to win two, one at the Allianz. Augsburg, by the way, who were in a relegation battle. Christian Falk, head of football at Build is with us, evening, Christian? Hello from Munich. Hello from Munich. Hello from Solford. We didn't see this coming. I mean, you obviously weren't here,

but I think it was only last week where we were chatting with Raffaughnickstein about the prospect of a Bayern unbeaten season. Well, it only needs to unravel once, and here we are. Yes. You know, Bayam, Munich this year has a really, really small squad. Everybody knows that. And at the end of the last year, you know,

we have a winter break in Germany. It was really, really close. that they lose this time. But every series has an end New Sears in Germany and they had a look of course at the last match of the Champions League. They know it will be difficult at

Einhoven and they wanted to be the number two of the league so they don't have to face Arsenal before the final. That was the plan. So in the head against Augsburg there was always, yeah, we don't have to win. There's still eight points ahead in the league before Dortmund, you

And so Boncant Company made a big rotation again, and there are many young players in the team. So perhaps it wasn't so serious like the matches before. They won 27 matches in a row, were unbeaten for seven months, so now this series has an end. Here's one then for everybody. Given my massive desire to avoid mentioning any of the English clubs tonight, if humanly possible,

if you were going to take Mina all of the English teams out of the Champions League, you might not need to take that many of them out of the Champions. She's nodding like, yeah, can we do that? Is that something we can do? We can have a league. Are we buying the best side? Are they the biggest challenge, do you think, to the English teams in the Champions League this season?

This season, yes. I think overall in that match against Arsenal is just one of the examples. They've been terrific to watch overall. And when it comes to actually dominance, I was thinking about this. a lot about teams that can be invincible. And I wonder whether complacency kicks in when you are always leading. So if you look at, for example, like Bia Levochosen, when they did the Invincible and Juventus, Juventus had a point to prove after finishing seventh. Biolivocin had almost like they wanted to keep it going, right? It was so good. It was going to be their defining factor.

They were going to be the invincibles. But I don't need to do that. Everyone knows they're the best. And I don't see a side right now because Rural Madrid and Barcelona have got obvious flaws. I mean, Real Madrid are a basket case at the moment. Barcelona have an obvious floor that they need to attend to. And then you look at Bayern. Defensively, they've got the best defense. Attacking-wise, they're scoring more than I think they have in the last few years. I can't see any team that can come close to that.

And I totally get if they're going to be complacent every now and then. Because even with this thin squad, they can do so much. But which team right now can stand up and say that they have a good defense and a brilliant attack? that has found a balance in the same way as buying this season. If you open up a little bit the lens and you look at the last, I don't know, 12 months, even six months, you have to add PSG there. Oh, yeah, we're just talking about now. Yeah, but we're talking about, yes.

You're obsessed with 2025, man. Yeah, he is. He really is. He's talking about, I'm sure. But I don't want to fall in the trap of, oh, well, they beat the loss last week, but they've been great the last six, three, six games, whatever. Just in terms of who's peaked, say in the last six months, What does the pick look like and who can beat them?

PSG and Bayern reach that high. Barcelona only on offensive way, not so much defensively. So I do believe, just going back to what Luis Enrique said yesterday, I look around, I look around, I don't see any team more favorite than us to win the Champions League. Nope, not one, no one. Perhaps I don't have that confidence, but I will put PSG in that list. Well, the likelihood, Christian, is that, and I hate doing that thing with the draw

when you kind of look at, you look too far ahead. But all things being equal, which in football they rarely are, there is a Champions League quarter final, potentially, which involves Bayern Munich against Rail Madrid or against Manchester City or against Chelsea, Barcelona or Paris San Jaman. But those are the only likely teams for them to face. So what I'm saying is there will be humongous teams for Bayern to come up against if they make it to that quarterfinal.

Do you think internally they believe they're more than capable of beating any of them? Is it only Arsenal they kind of fear? Of course, every team of this you mentioned are serious for Boyle Munich. But, you know, if you see the way of Boyn Munich, they have beaten in the group Chelsea, which were the World Club champion. They beat Paris in Paris. So they always were very, very good at these matches. And, you know, thanks for England of Harry Kane, also against Eindhoven.

He was on the bench. You bring him in and he scored again. We have now Michael Olise, which is really a surprise that we have him in the Bundesliga. He played in the Premier League, and nobody gets this player. I think he's at the moment one of the – he's definitely one of the best in Germany, but I think it's one of the best in Europe. So I was at London when they played Arsenal. This was another game.

So this was really difficult for Boyle Munich, the style that played wonderful Dicklin Rice. But I think every other team would be more afraid of playing Boyle Munich than the other way around. Really interested to ask you about Shalker then, Christian. And it takes a lot for us to move away from the Champions League in a week like this. But they're a really interesting story at the minute. So people will know what a big club is.

they are. I mean, they were in the Champions League last 16 as recently as 2019. They're currently in their third consecutive season in the second tier in Germany, Bundesliga Zvi. Can you explain this to us? How is it possible that Shalker can be top, having scored fewer goals than both of the bottom two, Grutter Firth and Dresden? How is that possible? Yeah, football is often a coaching match and they have a new coach since seven months and he's doing very well. He recognized that it's not good if a team gets always three goals from the

other teams. And that was the first point. He changed. Now, they have the best defense in the second league, and that was his first and most important step. They have a very good goalkeeper with glorious carriers. You know him from Liverpool. He wasn't always so good when I

remember some finals, but he has a quality. He's better than League two, and there are experts in Germany already saying he would be number three in the German National for the World Cup. Whoa. Stop. Stop right there. Seriously.

Yes, yes, already. Loris carriers could be going to the World Cup. I say no, but they're experts who would say Nagaswan have to do that. We don't have number three which is so strong, so why not? But League two, it's always complicated.

I think Lucas Podolsky was the last player who played in the League 2 and was going to a tournament for Germany. So that's one point. And now, you know, they change the playing style. Now with Chico, they have a really go-getter. He scored in his first match. He was a substitute, came in and directly go.

So they made a lot things right. And Schalken may be not certain of the focus in England, but in Germany it's still one of the biggest clubs with Boyn, Munich and Dortmund, a really huge fan base and it's really important that they play league number one again and I think they have a chance now. Christian, just before we let you go then,

this is one of the great things about this Shalka story. They've brought in Edding Jekko, of course, is a legendary striker from all across Europe. But the manager that you mentioned has treaded the not so well-trodden path of Plymouth to Shalka

in Mirron Muslitz. So how has that happened, both getting Jekko and appointing Miron Muslich. That is a really interesting piece of recruitment in both senses. Yes, indeed it is. But he knows that Checo guarantees goals and the playing style of Shalke, it totally fits. They have a striker who scored last season 16 goals. That's why Shalke is not in league three at the moment. But this one, they give away now to New York

because he doesn't fit to the system of him. And Chico, fits to the system and the other way around you see which yes atmosphere Shike has which power that Chaco is coming out from a league from Italy league number one to league number two in Germany

and yes he doesn't earn so much money you know so but he has a release clause and he has a clause and I think the clause is more important that there is he wants to go with Shike in league number one and then He earns really money, so you feel there is a clear plan of Shaike and Jacob.

Christian, lovely to have you with us. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm going to jump to the thing that we wanted to finish with, and it's this, having just finished the latest iteration. If you could change one thing about this Champions League format for next season, what would it be? Guillaume kickers off.

I would like more games. and I know that I'm hearing this is boring you see the same guy's top not really you don't expect sporting club there for instance

but I had a lot of fun watching Naples Chelsea I had a lot of fun watching Liverpool away to Marseille more of that please these are

you know I haven't been to Bodoglind yet I want to have the chance to do so so just give me more games I would split it into two conferences of 18, even added division into it, make it more NFL-like. However, if you are to really do that, you need no promotion, no relegation, so you'd need

the same 36 teams in it. But I do think over the course of the eight league games, I think sometimes you do get lost between match day four and match day seven. I think if you were to just condense it into like kind of two conferences. We'd still get what we got last night, but I think that we'd have a better feel for the meaning of these games rather than having to wait and wait and wait for it all to matter in the way it does on match day eight. I would have 56 teams and every three match days we lose 10. So we have lots of jeopardy.

So we constantly have sort of a match day age every three weeks where all of the games happen at the same time and then we lose 10 teams and then three games later we lose another. We lose another. We lose another. And then we keep shedding them until we get down to the last 16th. A battle royal.

It's even more complicated than the Swiss model that Guilla'm so in love with. Anyway. A battle risuki. I like it. Thank you very much, guys. All right, that's it

from this episode of the Euroleagues on the Football Daily podcast. Next time, it's Alistair Bruce Ball, John Murray and Ian Dennis with the commentator's view. As always, thank you so much for listening. Five Live Sports. Let's get the show on the road

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