Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Champions League fallout and Mourinho returning to Real Madrid?

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

John Bennett is joined by Guillem Balague, ESPN's Julien Laurens and Rafa Honigstein to unpack the chaotic first legs in the Champions League semi-finals. Who's best placed after Paris Saint-German 5-4 Bayern Munich? Should Arsenal feel aggrieved? Is the future of football at stake?The panel also discuss Jose Mourinho's potential return to Real Madrid, more unrest in Marseille, the feel-good story of Freiburg and Lionel Messi buying a 5th tier club in Spain.TIMECODES:  00:26 - Guillem's gardening with Del Piero 01:57 - PSG 5-4 Bayern 13:49 - Atletico Madrid 1-1 Arsenal 15:44 - Mikel Arteta speaking to Guillem for CBS 23:01 - Mourinho back to Real Madrid? 27:38 - Habib Beye struggling at Marseille 33:07 - Freiburg flying 35:53 - Messi buys a football club 39:35 - A 70-year-old goalkeeper? 40:25 - From bad to worse at Zaragoza

On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues with John Bennett. Hello from me, John Bennett, and welcome to Euroleagues on the Football Daily podcast. Joining me this week, Guillem Ballagay, ESPN's, Julian Lorenz, and Rafael Honigstein. And it's welcome back to Guillem, because Guillem wasn't with us last week. And Guillem, you've been doing a bit of gardening. You're fresh from measuring the grass at the Wonder Metropolitan Stadium. I opened up my social media yesterday. The first video I see is you,

talking to Alessandro del Piero, in very nice suits, by the way, talking not about football, but about the length of the grass. It's amazing what we have to talk about around football matches, isn't it sometimes? No, tell me why, on Instagram, it's had 6 million views since

yesterday, when all we're talking about is the length of the grass. That's where we're going wrong. We need more gardening chat on Euroleaks to get these hits, get these clicks. A little story about just making a lovely today. 26 millimeters

an arsenal complaining but UFO were like there's nothing wrong it's already been calculated it's 26 limit is 30 and Grisman actually demands that the pitch is in good condition and Julian Alvarez as well

so it was a little bit of all felt like theater like it was just put for us we filmed it all of course and make a story out of it In fact, a viral story. Please tell me that Del Piero has a little tape measure in his pocket, just in case he has to ever measure the length of the grass.

No, I'll tell you what he did say or do as soon as we started talking about. He's, no. Not important. No. You're shaking, raising his hands and all that. Because I couldn't believe that there was a story out of it. Six million views don't lie, though. We'll have more gardening chat, I think, on your release coming up.

Only one place to start, though. let's get to the other Champions League semi-final. Paris Saint-Germain 5, by Munich 4. The match certainly lived up to the hype, the highest scoring semi-final since Eintracht Frankfurt beats Rangers 6-3 in 1960s European Cup. Raffa, you were there.

Just tell me about the atmosphere. And the easy question, first of all, is it the best game you've ever seen live? It's certainly one of the best games. the atmosphere was incredible big T-4s with Napoleon Hong Kong-Kering Europe

it was all very singing the Marseillaise which is not something you'll find in Munich next week I don't think they're singing the German National Art film before the game it was just so special it was just such amazing

and also what added to it and what you don't appreciate is you know Paris itself is sort of part of the spectacle it was a beautiful day it's in a beautiful area there's a real sense of anticipation you have through the little streets

to get to the stadiums everything's blocked off so you see the stadium but you can't quite get to it you have to go around and then they tell you no no you have to take another left and you take another left and it's kind of a sense of drama

even before the game starts and the light show and all this kind of stuff that purists or traditionalists might not enjoy so much but it really added to the occasion and of course then football. I mean, wow.

It was fantastic. It was just absolutely amazing. And I watched the whole game again yesterday because inside the stadium I felt I didn't really get a good view of sort of what really happened tactically. I mean, I was very, very close to the action, which was great because you see the little things, but you don't see sort of the bigger picture that well.

And it was interesting to see it again for 90 minutes. But yeah, absolutely wonderful, wonderful. Jules has provoked a lot of debate on social media with one of his tweets he said PSG have now been involved in the greatest Champions League final ever and the greatest champions league semi-final lever Yeah I think lots of people agreed with the second point

Not quite so much with the first point Jules I mean I think the performance that PSG put in that 5-0 destroying of Inter Milan last season remains for me in finals the greatest performance so I made that the greatest final of all And also, as you know, my kids were in, or two of them, were in the stands with me, with the rest,

where a lot of the cousins and the Lawrence's family and friends. So it was special for us. So I had to let go. In terms of semifinal, and we had a great one last year, obviously, between Inter Milan and Barcelona. We had a great one in 2022 between Madrid and Manchester City. We've had great ones in the past, sure, it felt to me that on Tuesday, even for us in front of the TV, and I probably would have been even more waxing lyrical about it if I had been in the stadium like Rafi, but I just don't think that we've very often seen something like that,

two teams like that, two teams that play that way, players that play that way with their profiles, everything you want really, the goal is the efficiency, the intensity, the one-v-one, that's just everything. I think that had everything more maybe than the other semifinals, including the ones of last season that we kind of mention. I think what made it so special and so unusual was the fact that, or the sense that a goal in itself doesn't really matter

that much. What I mean by that is whether this game would have finished 4-4-4-3 to Bayern or 5-4-2 PSG, you had a sense very early on in the game that it doesn't really make much difference because the next game is going to be similar again.

So it kind of took the anxiety a little bit out of it, the sense that every goal here is decisive and you know this might be the difference between making it to the final No, no, it wasn't one of those old school semifinals where you think, oh, no, we lost 1-0 away or 1-0 win here.

You know, we're halfway there, no way goal and so on, and the caginess that comes with it, it was completely different sense. Now, I say that with a bit of hindsight, of course, because at 5'2, I thought, hmm, what or two more? And I think this might be difficult. But up until then, I had a feeling that, you know, this is just a prelude, and the second act is yet to follow. It was like two chimpanzees hitting the chest and going,

we are like this and we don't care what's happening and let's go for it. And two alpha males in charge of the teams going like, yeah, man to man. It just doesn't matter. By the way, I agree with, I think both said it, both managers said it. The defending was quite good. But it would be good to see it on a second view and see if, Rafi, you bug me up. You're saying yes or probably you buy it. back me up because you had to defend man to man.

And there was blockages. There was players running faster, defenders running faster than the forwards and stopping them attacking. There was a lot of things going on from the forwards, the movement defenders becoming forwards and wingers coming inside and a lot of things to distract that man to man.

And yet it was only nine goals in the way he went. But it was just like an ego battle of two clubs that went on the pitch. it's thinking it's going to be our way and we're not going to change anything. Another thing is game management and what you could have done to actually when you got three

goals ahead. Can I pick up on that? Can I play devil's advocate there? And I'm sure you're going to jump down my throat here. Could Paris Saint-Germain not have done something when they were five two up to control the game a bit better, Jules? They're going to surely live to regret that, aren't they?

Surely there is something he could have done tactically to control the game. I don't know. I think watching a 5-2, you knew there were more goals. You knew Bayern would score. You knew that PhD might have another chance or two. I think they were a bit physically tired. For me, the swing is also the Fabian Ruiz coming on for Zaire-Hemri.

I didn't understand it. I don't think you can come on in a game like this. Not with this intensity, not with this physicality. Fabian had played 20 minutes in the last three months. He was not ready for a battle like this. Warren was still good fit. It was not tired. I think that was far too early.

And I think that gave some momentum back to Bayern because they had more intensity than it took Fabian a long time to get into that game. And rightly so, it's not a dig at Fabian. It's just when you haven't played for so long, to try to get into a game like this in the 65th minute is almost impossible, even if you're much fit and it was not much fair.

But in terms of controlling that lead, protecting it, that's not what PSG do anywhere. The times where they've had to play a bit deeper, this season or last season was where they, because they were under pressure from their position. And at some point, they were very much under pressure by this buy-hand side in the second half. So I don't really think they could have done anything different, to be honest.

There's one thing that I'd like to do during games, is messaging managers that we know, you know, who have been in these kind of games before. And the three of them that engaged in conversation agreed with you, John. It's like one thing is to have an identity and have that identity for as often as you can. Another one is not being intelligent

enough to react to things. But I agree with Jules. I mean, this is a team made to attack and to go for it. And then how can you say, right, right, guys, minute 73. All right, let's load up. It just doesn't work. So next week, Raffa, what's going to happen? Are we going to get exactly the same drama?

Is it going to be a goal fest again? Is there any way? Is there any different way for these two teams to play? How's it going to go? Well, I don't know if you saw what Luis Enrique said after he thought was unbelievable quote. He said, I asked my answer. analysts. How many goals do we need to go through in Munich? And they said at least three. So I think we'll

see goals because those two teams are so good at creating chances. But just one word on the control, the idea that you can sort of manage things better. PSG had one of those rare games when the opposition outpassed them. And they had to spend by their standards big spells without the ball. And they're just not built for that. It's not a case that you just say, okay, let's just, you know, today we're just going to defend, sit back. It's not what they do. And I think it's very easy to sit on a sofa as a former, maybe defensively minded Spanish manager and say,

oh, the lack of control, blah, blah, blah, blah. But these teams, they don't work like that. It wasn't him. There's a good point on, if you look at Vitina in this game, especially on Tuesday, with the ball outstanding because he's world-class, He's one of the best, everything. But without the board, he struggled. And Vitina would always struggle in a game like this

because of this intensity that he can't really match, the physicality, he can't really match. I mean, put Vitina and Pavlovich together. And that was not the matchup, by the way. He was the embellion Pavlovish. But still, you get the point. That's the idea. What I wanted just to add to what Rafi said about next week

and we'll be there together is the Haikimi injury, which I think is a shame even just for the spectacle in itself, even beyond what PhD are going to do and how you replace him. and how much that's going to change their game in possession. Certainly, it's again, Tuesday was great because we had two teams with their strongest 11, Barg and Abri, I guess, to a sudden extent. But quite fresh because they've been able to rotate in the league in recent weeks,

which, for example, primary league clubs, suddenly like top primary clubs can't do, really. But that was great. Now, without Hakimi, that second leg already feels a bit different. Zaire Emery is the most likely to replace him at right. back, that means you change also your midfield from a PhD point of view, and that probably will make them not as good as they were on Tuesdays. The future of football has been played here in this month. It's interesting that the two brands of football, if you like, that they are the dominant forces on one hand, you know,

the not possession-based, but certainly positional football, which has evolved through Louis Enrique and Vince and Company's one side, and the other one is Simeone and Arteta. and we know that coaches have been influenced by what Arteta has been doing but they get influenced by winning as well and if all of a sudden that other brand the one that let's go for the kill wins say they win clearly the final and you have to say they will be the favorites

I wonder if football are going to say all right let's just get rid of the shackles and let's go for it and that's the way forward Rafi's not so convinced though I'm not convinced because it's the hardest way of playing. The reason why, despite what people say, Pep Guardiola has influenced the world of football

in a way he has, but there's still very, very few teams who play like him, because it's just the hardest way of doing. All these rotations, all these things are not just players running around like headless chicken and say, you know what, I'm the centreback one second, but now I'm going to push it all the way up. This is all choreography, this is all process.

This is so, so hard. It took by in a whole season to get it right, and you might find people who say, they still haven't got it right because they concede five goals in the semifinal. I don't see how that's going to catch on. It's not so much who can do it because we've seen many teams trying to do the peop or the other thing and cannot do it is what football is asking you to do. And if actually everybody will go for it, even though they're not able to.

And of course it requires a lot of quality, individual quality that not everybody has. I just wonder if football are going to be thinking, all right, let's go a different way. Because people seem to be quite tired, upset, I don't know how to call it, of the brand of football they're getting weekly generally. I don't know, maybe just being optimistic. Let's move on to the other semi-final then. Nine goals we had in Paris, but a different kind of drama in Madrid on Wednesday night.

Athletico, Madrid and Arsenal. Drawing 1-1. A game dominated by penalty decisions or non-penalty decisions. I really enjoyed it, but let's get through the big talking points, which all surrounded the penalty. Sorry, John, can I share one moment? One moment.

In the warm-up, Grisman sees Del Piero and passes the ball to Del Piero. who is next to me of the pitch. Del Piero puts his food on the ball and passes the ball back to Grisman because Grisman wanted to say to his kids, I got a pass from Del Piero. Not nice.

What a moment. I do wonder when the players are warming up behind Del Piero. Do they actually realise how big a legend? Because some of them are a bit too young, aren't they, to know how big this legend was. But let's get to the penalties then. The first one, Yoccharest failed pretty straightforward. Second penalty, Ben White handball after a shot which was going well wide.

It's the sort of handball we've decision we've come to expect in the Champions League. You can hate the law, but you can understand why the referee gives it. Third penalty, that's the big talking point. So Eze goes down after beating handcoat to the ball, referee gives it, gets told to check the screen by the video assistant referee. Diego Simeone, the Athletico Madrid boss, very animated, doing the VAR sign. It gets overturned. I can't believe it was overturned.

Guillaume, you were there. Some of the pundits on TV were saying they were upset with Diego Simeone for influencing the referee. What did you make of it? What was your view on that penalty decision? How Simeona defends himself is that he says in super games, in the biggest games, it has to be a clear penalty. It's a big, big, massive decision.

And he thought the tackle on easy wasn't a clear penalty. I spoke to Mikhail Arteeta for CBS, who I think he was a little bit upset. about the whole thing. It's a shame the way we consider the penalty, but with the rules and how UEFA and the Champions League has given those penalties, I accept it. What I don't accept and I think for me is something that I'm fuming. We are all as a club is what happened with the penalty of EPS and how it gets overturned

in my opinion at this level is unacceptable because it changes the course of the time. So you say that the Humble had to be given, Ben White's, but the penalty that was disallowed Very clear. In the Premier League is not a penalty. In the Champions League it is a penalty. They made it very clear from the one. I think they were consistent. Yesterday, the Bayern Munich, you see a handball there is a penalty. I understand that today is a penalty. The second one with Epps is unacceptable, in my opinion. Because then it's not consistency there. You are fuming. I am. Because obviously it changes the course of the time.

Last one, Simone was talking that he knows you're going to suffer, you're going to have to use a lot of energy. It's full and fast. And coming back. and he will always try to take advantage of it. How do you counteract that? We cannot recover, sleep, eat, and give the boys a lot of love. What we've been through, it's incredible. Trying to win the Premier League and the Champions League is nothing like it.

So Michel Artetta fuming with that decision to overturn the original penalty core, I thought it was a definite penalty. Jules Raffa, what do you think, Jules, you go first? What did you make of that incident? I have to be honest, I didn't see much of a contact. Yeah, I really didn't. And I understand Michael's frustration from an Arsenal point of view, the players, the fans, because he was given first,

but was it really the right call to give it? And I think VAR, in this case, I think this is why we want VR. At the end of the day, having the right call. And I'm not sure the penalty would have been the right call if it had stood. So in the end, I thought, yeah, this is right to overturn it. I can see how frustrating it is from an Arsenal point of view. But, yeah, I didn't see much of a contact I won't like. Was it clear and obvious though, Ruffer?

Was it enough of an error, could you say, for want of a better word, to force the referee to go over to the screen? Well, strictly speaking, because we see a bit of contact, you'd expect VAR not to get involved on point of principle. But there is a suggestion, I think, that was given maybe at the start of this year or this year before, where they told referees look for players exaggerating and figure out if the contact is,

enough to actually be a foul, i.e. is the reaction of the player commensurate with the contact? Was he really hit? Does he really have to fall because of it? And I think under these very strict criteria, I would say it's more not a foul than a foul. In the grand scheme of things, if you ignore the dubious process, if you will, I would say I would rather not see penalties like this given. But I would extend it to the UEFA handballs as well. I think they're also shouldn't be given the way that UEFA does it. I think VIA should not have got involved. But I think we have started the second leg.

In the same way that the grass pitch thing felt like a little bit of theatre. I think what Miquel is doing as well, perhaps is trying to influence the next referee. And if there is a close call, there's been enough noise to be made that followed by the English media, not so much by the Spanish media, for instance,

that the referee was so bad against Arsenal that, you know, the referee, something to Arsenal because I'm not sure you can create such a big amount of annoyance and frustration to that moment even though I understand it's a turning point but not one of those clear turning points that is like it should feel unfair if you don't get it given. And Guillem you mentioned the buildup has started for the second leg the mind games has started it's started from Diego Cimioni haven't they because he's talked about the fact that Arsenal are playing in this semi-final and also going for

the Premier League title and he said as the game went on we noticed their fatigue and the weight of going for the Premier League trying to win the Champions League all that accumulated and we picked up so he's basically saying they can sense that they're a bit tired there's some exhaustion there is that the mind games beginning well he actually mentioned it to the players at half time it's like we've got an extra gear and they don't but you tend to keep quiet about that So he went and I spoke to you after the game and he was like those words that you mentioned and just the idea that

I'm not sure they have it in them I'm not sure they can just you know be strong enough physically and mentally of course because they've got so much they're playing for etc etc so after Diego I spoke to Declan Rice and I told him what Simeone had said

and Declan were like hmm man games have started then of course we can It's a big game though isn't it Guillem they've got to play Fulham at the weekend then get back up for this game against Athletica Madrid, it's bound to have an impact. Even if it was mindgames from Diego Simeone, he's got a point, hasn't he?

Yeah, but did you see who came on from the bench at Arsenal? What a squad they've got, maybe even the best squad in Europe. And with players recovering as well, I'm not sure what happened to O'Degard, but he came off quite early. But the likes of Saka got more minutes on him, and generally, if you have to say, you look at the game, and the last 10 15 minutes, it was Arsenal.

It was actually Electico Madrid that had to defend it, because they didn't have the energy. to come out. All the players, because Sourlod was injured, didn't feel right, even though Simeonah was saying that Soloth, Julian Alvarez, they'll be okay for the second leg. Athletico Madrid, have a fantastic record against English team. So since first facing Leicester City, I have to get a Leicester City mention in, in the 1961, 1962 Winners Cup, my dad was actually out of that game at Filbert Street. Athletico have played 15 knockout

ties against English opposition and won 11 of them. So Jules, what's going to happen next week then. One one going into the second game. What are you expecting? I think Arsenal will edge it. I think they've got a slight advantage. You mentioned that record from Atlantic Co, they seen away from home, apart from the first leg of the quarterfinal against Barcelona. Hasn't been great, both in the league and in the Champions League. They obviously lost four in the Emirates back in November. I think it was in the league phase of it. It was a time where Arsenal were playing better football. They were fresher. Everybody was fit, including Timber, who for me is the big missing piece in this current Arsenal jigsaw. and one of the reasons why they may be not as good with the ball

than they were previously this season. But I still think they have enough really to qualify for the final. Lots more to come on Euroleagues, including a possible return to Real Madrid for Jose Marino. Live sports. BBC Women's Football Weekly. The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game. Dame Serena Vigman.

Are we including Dame in your title now? how much an honour that is. You want to play in a way that they can show their skills, so that's what we're trying to do. Win the World Cup. It's a dream. Listen. With the BBC Sounds app.

On the Football Daily podcast, The EuroLeaks with John Bennett. Strange to be talking about the latter stages of the Champions League without Rail Madrid, but they've been making headlines this week anyway. It's being reported that Joseo Marino is in the frame to replace Alvaro Arbaloa. at the end of the season.

Guillem, I have been looking forward to getting your take on this. So what is the latest then? Will Joseo Marineo? Be back at Real Madrid next season? What we know is that number one, no decision has we made. And number two, no office as we made to managers. But there's been conversations.

In fact, there were conversations two days after Arbelloa was named manager for Real Madrid, even though he was given a year and a half contract. Two days later, Florentino Perid was talking to two years. super agents about managers to take over either this season or next season. But mostly this season in case the whole thing went wrong. That's been put to aside. And then what happens? And we've seen this so many times. What Frantino Perret does with the connections he's got in the media, and he does that himself. You know, this is one of most influential people in the whole of Spain

goes on messages, one or two people and says, Joseph Moreno, wow, then of course there's a big story about it and, you know, does it feed? Doesn't it feed? But he's, you know, somebody said he's as old as VHS or obsolete as VHS. But in any case, the name is there, a debate gates created out of which there is a kind of opinion poll that remedy takes in consideration. So if he was a drastic no, look what he did with Prostiani and Benfica and Vini, blah, blah, la, then he would have been like, no, no him. But he's not the only one in the list. That list includes Pocetino, who's got a great relationship with number one and number two at the club. Jose Agens Sajet being the number two.

The Shams is a possibility as well, but again, there's been no contacts they say at the club. Klop, perhaps even with Cross as an assistant. Cross wants to come back to the club, but also Klop and Cross have been mentioned for the national side. So it's all up in the air. Alegi, with Modrich as number two, denied by both of them, which is never a guarantee that it's not going to happen. So those things are put out there, and then people debate, and eventually because it does, doesn't really matter who's the manager, the style, or how to play or anything, but it matters how he deals with Fini and in Bappe, then that a decision will be taken in mid-May or so.

Yeah, because, of course, Jose Mourino, you mentioned it there. He was heavily criticised for his response to allegations of racism directed at Venisius Junior by the Benfica player, Gianluca Prestiani, who's been found guilty of homophobic conduct and ban for six games. So what do you guys think of this? Raffa, I think it was Ica S who tweeted. some popcorn when this news came out. There will be drama, but can you see Marino returning? And would it be the right decision by Real Madrid? Well, Guillain will know better than me, but this is a name that's been going around for many years now.

And in a sense that this is unfinished business for both sides. El Florentino Perez, I think, had it let it be known that he perhaps regrets firing Georges. Like, Cévesant doesn't come out of nothing. I am not sure what the idea is. I guess they are looking for someone who can deal with big egos. Arguably, Josie was better in creating big players than dealing with big players. And the style of football is a bit contentious, I think, even though his Real Madrid side, especially in the first year,

played some really attacking football and scored loads of loads of goals. So we shouldn't pigeonhole him too much and stereotype his football too much. But yeah, I think popcorn for all of us, If I was sitting in the Santiago Ben Abeo as a supporter, I'm not sure the popcorn entertainment value will be as high on the pitch as it will be off it. Jules, what about the Vinny Jr. factor? Can those two work together? I think he's got a year left on his contract, hasn't he, Vinny Jr.

Still hasn't signed the new deal. So is that one of the subplots here, the future of Viniss's Jr. And what happens with Jose Mourini? I think that's a subplot amongst this story, really, because remember Vinie was not too happy with Chabi Alonzo. suspended the negotiation for the new contract. The new contract is still not there. Would you want to work with Moreno?

Is what happened with Benfica, a factor here? Probably as well. So I think there's much more to come. If this story gets deeper because Guillem is right, it's probably not the main name. There's many other candidates. And I think they will surely go through a proper process. But then if it gets deeper,

I think it'd be very interesting to see everybody's reaction within around this dressing room and all the, the forces in presence in this case. So we talked about the managerial vacancy coming up at Real Madrid. Many managerial vacancies will be filled in the summer and jewels

will Marseille be added to that list because Habib Bay is not having a good time of it at all. Marseille struggling to say the least to qualify for next season's Champions League. He took over from Roberto de Zerbi and it's not gone well at all for him. He's under big pressure, isn't he? Yeah, massively the draw against Nis on Sunday at the Velodrome

in the big derby. You know, this is the big big Mediterranean Derby. They hate each other. It was again, Marseille had to win to stay in touch with the Champions League positions in Ligins

because Lille had won and Leon had won and they drew again. They didn't play well but they at least were leading and then they made a naive mistake. They gave away a penalty. Eddie Wahey,

who is from Paris, a former Marseille player who only said six months because he flopped there before going to Germany. scored the best Panenka I think you would ever see in this season. And incredible,

But considering the pressure, considering the importance of that penalty, the game for needs who are fighting not to go down, his relationship with Marseilles, some of the Marseilles, some of the Marseilles fans to score a penalty like this. Like, I mean, I think a lot of respect for Eli Wahi, who then trolled the club and the players, obviously, as you can imagine, after that. So it all happened in Marseille's the Velodrome on Sunday. It's bad news for Habibé, who used to be, as you know, J.B.,

a very good pundit on French television, maybe one of the best we've ever had, who used to lecture a little bit. Is that coming back to Haunt him? Exactly. Exactly. We had the Scottish Gary Neville, didn't we, on Euroleagues last week. Yeah, and you wouldn't have, you've heard this. But yeah, we're talking about the Senegalese Gary Neville here.

So what has he said that has come back to haunt him then? I think I saw on social media it was something about never criticizing players. And now he seems to be doing that. Hasn't he criticised Oneieri recently as well? Abdeli recently as well, he seems to be picking on certain players, doesn't it? as a pundit, he said that was something never to do. Yeah, exactly. He said, I think it was towards Rusen-Ricke,

when things, at the beginning of Rusen-Ricke in Paris, where he was putting things in place and he was not as good as it is now. He used to be quite a lot like that. And now you're right, publicly, privately, he's quite going after the players strong in Waniari. He wants more from him on a day-to-day basis in terms of commitment.

Abdele, I mean, some of the stories that come out of this master-dressing, as always, because it's a club, we said it all the time, that is so passionate about football. The fans are so intense that when things don't go well, it explodes and it's currently exploding at the velodrome. And Habibé is at the middle of it

and it's not a good position to be as a Marseille head coach. They've got a new CEO, they've got a new president, and I think it's very unlikely that Habi Bay, if he misses our Champions League for next season, we'll be on the bench next season. It's the impossible job, isn't it,

Guillaume, Marseille, head coach? You must be the toughest job in European football. And yet, the long queue of people that want to be part of it just continues. What I'm fascinated about is those that take the job, not knowing where they're going. And I think you'll be surprised by the amount of managers that have gone through that. And it's like, I can do it or, you know, I will turn things around or I would calm things down or I would take the right decisions. Some of them have left after three months. So a bit of research. Ring Jules.

He'll tell you. Guillaume is 100% right. This is something very intrinsic in managers that they all. always believe, yeah, everyone else has failed, but I will sort it out. And it's that belief that gets them into that position in the first place. If they didn't have that belief, they couldn't stand in front of 22 people and motivate them and explain to them why they should play the way they want them to play. But often, maybe a sense of blissful ignorance when it comes to the wider issues. Can I put another paradox out there? When you're a pundit, you have to simplify what it is a very complex entity of a football team. And whatever you say,

you are right at that point. If then you have to take decisions, you will see the context, the situation, the personalities, and whatever decision you take, you will be right as well. And the thing that we love about football is that we all absolutely right. So I find a little bit of advantages to go back to the manager and say, ah, but you said that and you're doing this,

different roles. And by the way, he was right both times. I don't know. If you say something as a pundit and then as a manager, something completely different. I think you've got to pick up on that, haven't you, Jules. Yeah, I think so. And again, Habib Be is...

I mean, I think you can draw parallel with Liam Roosigno, for example. And Habib is a great speaker. And I think that's what made him a very special pundit. And he was. It was one of the best we've ever had, really, him and Samia Najri, when they were together. It was a pleasure to listen to pre-match, post-match, all of that. His analysis, everything. But then, obviously, now he's the manager.

And when things are going great, he's there. He looks handsome. He's strong. He's fair. He speaks. really, really well. Everything is interesting. When he's under pressure and the criticism comes from everywhere, the fans, the club, the media, the media used to work with other parts of the media, especially down in Marseille, all the local newspapers, the local radios, all of that,

then suddenly you could see he's just losing it. And the other day, he said in his press conference, I'm not going to talk anymore like I used to, because when I talk to you and I give you things, then you come back at me after. So now I'm going to say the minimum, and I say, and that's not him. So now he's betraying his own personality. Because things are not going well, and that's surely the beginning of the end family. As much as I love him, really, that doesn't look good. Let's talk about a manager who is doing a great job. We're recording this ahead of the first legs of the Europa League and Europa Conference semifinals.

Some great stories for some less fancied clubs. I want to talk about Freiburg with you, Raffa. Only Braga stand in the way of them reaching their first European final. They've never won a major trophy before. So give us some background to this Freiburg story. Why suddenly are they having this success? A wonderful club that are deeply rooted in their own local community. Freiburg is not a football city as such,

but in the 80s and the 90s, they became synonymous for a very specific brand of football, which was compared to Brazil at the time under Folke Finke. Things are a little bit different, but you remember what a charismatic manager had in Christian Streich, we talked about him very often on the Euroleaks show. a guy was always interested talking about all sorts of things apart from football and then when Julian Schuster took over from him

a season ago everyone thought this is going to be really really hard who wants to be the guy after Christian Streich is like being the guy after Ferguson being the guy after Asson Wenger you're almost set up to fail but quietly without having even anywhere

near the same sort of charisma and and PR impact the predecessor had Schuster has managed to put things together and Freiburg through the strength of their sort of camaraderie and the close connection with the city and the atmosphere that they create in the stadium have gone on this run and as you said they are in a position where they for the first time ever play for a major title they have won the Bundesliga two trophy and this kind of start button anywhere near the accolades

that they could get and I guess against Braga because they got a little bit of lucky with the way the bracket works, they might be seen as more favourites even to go through. So it's just an amazing story for them to have a first European Cup final with players who, with the exception of Matthias Ginter, who's a very seasoned former Germany international, you probably wouldn't really have heard too much of. Is Freyberg the club where everybody cycles to the stadium? Not everybody, but most of it. I know everybody. The coach, because it is so small and it's just such a small city that the bike is probably the easiest way to get there.

They are like in a little bubble and based in one of the most beautiful areas in Germany, very close to Baden, where England were based in 2006. Lots of vineyards, very green. But yeah, not your typical sort of post-industrial hotbed of football the way, you know, Dortmundna and Shalk and so on. But I really, really wholesome one. Let's finish it in Spain.

Lino Messi has bought a club, a lower league club, in the fifth tier in Catalonia. Am I pronouncing this correctly, Guillem, Cornelia? Would that be how you said? Cornelia, accent at the end. So why Cornelia then? I'll completely mess that pronunciation up again. But why that club?

It's near his house. He's going to go back to Barcelona. The whole family is going to. It's a working class town, 90,000 people outskirts of Barcelona. It's the first step of his return. There is a very strong youth system there. All the teams are competing in the top tiers of Academy Football at national and regional

level. In fact, I'm going to give you some names that I've come out from their query David Raya, George Yalba, Gerard Marti, Javier Puado, the captain of Spanish, Keita Valde, Aytour Ruival, who's a bettis, Ilya Sanchief. So they do things very, very well. But there's also this thing about players that were born in the 80s or early 90s who made a lot of money. The first the first generation that made a lot of money in football. And they're getting excited about just buying clubs. We've seen Cristiano Ronaldo doing that with Almeria, getting 25% of it.

We've seen Gerard Picquet, who've got Andorra, now in the second division. You've got Jordi Alba himself, Danny Elmo, who got Los Pitalet, also in the fifth year. You know, it cost them the equivalent of a coffee to you. It costs between 1 and 5 million euros. So they'll do that.

they'll get a little bit excited about because they're all very aware now, very, very aware that is hard to retire. And after that unless they find something that motivates them and of course Messi is getting a portfolio of businesses but one of them had to do with football. He wanted to, still

hasn't decided what he wants to do but he doesn't want to be a coach. He likes the idea of being technical secretary, director of football, maybe getting involved to something like this, Cornaya will go up the divisions with the money they will have and eventually becoming the director of football at Barcelona which is a little dream of his.

Doesn't always go well, though, does it, Jules? Killeen Mbapé has had a bit of stick, hasn't they, since becoming a club owner? What is it, Kahn? They've had some difficulties, haven't they? If he got a chance to talk to Messey, would he be saying, don't do it, Leonor, don't buy a club? Although, Gallaud Chisie, who we had on the show before, has turned things around pretty well.

They've won three in a row, and are scoring some beautiful goals, playing some really good football. So I think Kiliang and Klishi and the rest of the club is hoping that are hoping that next season they can go back up to the second division. But it is not easy. It's not easy. But I agree with Giam. I think you also feel part of building something and creating something,

especially for clubs like Kahn, by the way, as well, who have a very strong academy for the region, for Normandy, for example. And I think if you can develop that, you get the rewards for it. But it's not easy. But more and more of them are going there, buying some shares somewhere, clubs somewhere. And it'd be interesting to see not so much in the near near future, but maybe in five, ten years time,

we might have Killian's Club against Messi's Club in the Champions League or something like that. I guess ownership works a bit differently in Germany, Raffa, but have we seen any of the Germany legends getting involved in club ownership with some of the smaller clubs? You can't own clubs, so it's difficult. You can become an official, and that's, of course, a long history, and you only have to look at Bayern

with their history of former players being in charge of the club, that that is a sort of a pathway into the game, your career, but yeah, you can't invest in professional clubs. You can buy clubs that are non-professional, but then it's a long way up, and very few people have shown any appetite for it. And talking of lower league football in Spain, have you heard about this, Guillem? A 70-year-old goalkeeper is set to play in the fifth tier.

On Sunday, for C.D., I'm going to mess this up again. C.D. Colunga, he's called Angel Mateos Gonzalez. And the club said on Instagram, he represents exactly what we stand for at the club. passion, consistency, respect for football, and a way of living the sport that goes beyond age. The fifth tier of English football is a very good standard. Can a 70-year-old goalkeeper really play in the fifth tier of Spanish football? They forgot to add lack of competitiveness.

We don't care if we lose games, because if you put somebody like that, he wouldn't be allowed at Bigelsoy United. No, no, no. You're not thinking of Biggles' way, bringing in a 70-year-old. It'd be great publicity. Think of the hits you get on social media. you can join that.

I just want to touch on Zaragoza before we go because you may have seen on social media the videos of their goalkeeper, Esteban Andrade, getting sent off and then going on to punch a Wesca player. It's been announced that he's been banned for 13 matches. These were crazy pictures, Guillem,

after this game. He completely lost his head, the goalkeeper. Yeah, can I say, I haven't watched it. I don't want to watch it. I get sick when I watch violence, literally, physically. but I've been told about it in detail. He had already two yellows,

and then he went and punched the Wesca player. These are two teams fighting for relegation, local derby, a lot of tension. Wesca won 1-0, which meant that it overtake Zaragoza on the table. Zaragoza's second bottom. Zaragoza in the historic table of teams in Spain, they're 11th.

So it's a club that has been, as won competitions. You must remember the Cup Winners' Cup, of course, against Arsenal, etc. And they got it so wrong from the moment they went down in 2012. They haven't been able to come up. Change ownership. It was close to bankruptcy. New ownership have come in, Jorge Mas, Inter Milan owner as well.

Sorry, into Miami. And he hasn't worked out. His four managers this season is really a really sad story because the fans feel completely abandoned by the ownership. And there's no way to turn around. And on top of it, the goalkeeper, one play again, 30 match band, and he's going to be sacked from that I author. A bit of a negative way for the podcast to end, but I think we have to go back to the two things we've learned.

We need more gardening. Yeah, well, next week we need some gardening stories. If he's getting six million views for a video about gardening, and also we need Biggelsway to have a 70-year-old goalkeeper. Give the people what they want. Exactly. Thank you so much to Guillem Balagay, Julian Arons, and Rafael Honigstein. That is it for this week's Euroleagues.

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