Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Champions League play-off drama

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Balague, James Horncastle and Marcel van der Kraan on this episode of the Euro Leagues.The team reflect on the results of the Champions League play-offs, discuss why Italian clubs have failed this season, and unravel the dispute between Ademola Lookman and Atalanta manager, Gian Piero Gasperini. They are then joined by interim manager for Belgian side Lommel SK, Ryan Garry. And finally a quick word on Mbappe's hat-trick heroics against Manchester City this week.03:02 Champions League disaster for Italian clubs 15:09 Lookman and Gasperini's falling out 23:57 Dutch clubs finding success in Europe 27:16 Lommel SK's Ryan Garry joins the pod 37:56 Mbappe puts away Manchester CityBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this week: Fri 21 Feb 1945 Portugal v England in the Women's Nations League. Sat 22 Feb 1500 Arsenal v West Ham United in the Premier League. Sat 22 Feb 1730 Aston Villa v Chelsea in the Premier League on 5 Sports Extra. Sun 23 Feb 1400 Newcastle v Nottingham Forest in the Premier League. Sun 23 Feb 1630 Manchester City v Liverpool in the Premier League.

Hello there, welcome to the EuroLeague's On The Football Daily podcast, loads to get into today, especially when it comes to the Champions League. Now, if you've been watching the BBC's Champions League match of the day highlights on a Wednesday night, then you will have seen lots this season of Guillaume Balague. Good evening. Good evening, Steve. Yes, twice, twice. Twice is lots.

Twice is lots. Yeah, it's much of the day. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. And if you were watching this week's match of the day, you will have enjoyed a little PSV Eindhoven voiceover work from Marcel van der Kraan. Good evening. Good evening guys, nice to see you. And if you were watching you will have seen the luscious locks on debut of one James Horn castle.

That's right. Yes, you always have a pop at me for going big time so what have you got to say for yourself? Yeah, it was a privilege to be on, you know, I'm sure Guillaume and Marcel attest, you know, when you hear that theme tune is, you know, it's recognised throughout the world. So it's yeah, it's hard not to get goosebumps. But yeah, no, very enjoyable, very enjoyable. I'm actually OK with it until the music comes on. And then I start looking around and it's's like it's match of the day. That's where all the messages go I'm on match of the day even at match time because the show starts straight away. Do you know Marcel I remember

when I went to do a story in Iceland once and I met this guy called Bjarni Feliksen who's like there Gary Lineker and he got famous because he flew tapes of match of the day over to Reykjavik a week late for people to watch before they had the the TV to watch it. So I mean it's it's pan-Europe pan it's global isn't it? You know Wim Kieft who is the former Holland international and famous Ajax striker. He confessed this week that he's keeping his video recorder so he can still watch all the old videos of Cyril Regis, all those sort of days in that time, because he says the match of the day videos which he was sent by somebody in England were so good and he loves them and he never wants

to get rid of them again. Right, we've got loads to get through tonight. Obviously it'll be a big one for the Champions League. Just a miserable week for Serie A clubs, which James is really looking forward to getting into. We'll also talk about Real Madrid blowing away Manchester City, Kylian and Bappé's form. There's an interesting story about Real Madrid and La Liga referees, which we'll get into. Bayern Munich squeezing past Celtic, Kudfist, Bayer Leverkusen. Next, Dutch clubs just going crazy, two teams in the last 16 for the first time in 19 years. We've also got a special live interview as well with the coach of Lommel in Belgium, former Bournemouth player Ryan Gary is going to join us live

on the Euroleagues. Five Italian teams started the league stage of the Champions League. I'm just going to go through the list, James. Bologna out in the bottom eight, Juve, AC Milan and Atalanta all gone in the playoffs, only Inter remain. So Juve beaten by PSV, for Atalanta it was Club Bruges, Fiannau did for AC Milan. So before we do the individual stories, which Marcel is very excited to do, what is going on? What a nightmare, James. Well, you said it yourself at the top of this segment, five Italian teams in the Champions League. Five, yeah. One more than everybody else. Now, of course, not for long. They've lost a few over this week, but they had five teams in the Champions League

because it reflected their status as the number one nation in the UEFA coefficient on the back of, let's say, three to five years of unexpected success really, in UEFA competitions, which would be interreaching Europa League and Champions League finals. They lost both but they still reached those finals. Roma winning the Conference League and reaching the Europa League final. Fiorentina reaching back-to-back Conference League finals and Atalanta winning the Europa League last year. So you could say that this season is a blip.

And I'm sure as we'll talk about with Marcel, yes, certainly there are circumstances in each of these games which are unique to each tie, I suppose, rather than a broader trend really in Syria, but Yeah, Milan. I mean look as Zlatan Ibrahimovic their executive said he felt that they this is his words not mine killed themselves In in their tie would fire an order With the mistake by Mignon in there in the first leg and then Teo Hernandez is sending off in the second leg. They, like Atalanta, were in the top eight going into the final matchday of the league phase.

Milan went down to 10 men in Zagreb and somehow contrived to lose to Dinamo Zagreb, so they didn't finish in the top eight. Atalanta, somewhat unlucky to fall into the playoffs really, given how well they played against Real Madrid and Barcelona. Remember, Riteghi missed from point blank range. He would have scored an equalizer against Madrid, they lost. And he missed a penalty against Arsenal. We'll get onto Atlanta penalties later. But yeah, certainly circumstances unique to each tie, I would say, rather than a broader trend.

Such a politician's answer. I was just going to say, I would say, rather than a broader trend. Such a politician's answer. I was just going to say, I think James will be the perfect manager of a club with a lot of investment, with no winning at the moment. Like the sort of the gif of the everything is fine with everything sort of burning down all around you basically, isn't it? Well, so let me take off my politician's mask and say that in that three to five year period of success or going far in these competitions, I remember writing a piece for the Athletic. Did it suggest that Italian football was back, that there was some kind of renaissance that came in the wake of them winning the Euros, for example, with Roberto Mancini in charge.

And I think my conclusion was no, that there is not a sound foundation and a coherent movement that suggests that Italian football is moving in the right direction. It was more that, for example, all of a sudden UEFA decided that they wanted a third competition, a conference league. And the Italian clubs have been really good in that conference league. They've been to the final every year. Roma won the first version of it. Fiorentina have been to the final twice. You then had Inter, who were kind of listing between almost going out of business, but being very well run on the football side, reaching Europa League final and Champions League final.

But the club itself, I mean, their owner was ejected. He was evicted in the summer by an American hedge fund. So, you know, not virtuous stuff going on there. And then don't get me started on AC Milan. I think we can we can we can leave that to Marcel. Yeah, so yeah so it's a you know, I It's it's a it's a complex question. I think this year It is it is more you could say that last three to five years have been overachievement

This one feels like they've underachieved particularly considering that Milan and Atlanta went into that final day of the league phase and they could have been in the top eight and it was in their hands to be in the top eight. Marcel, do you want to do PSV or Feyenoord first? Your choice. Let's go with my club, you know, Feyenoord. All right. Not even a full strength Feyenoord, by the way, that beat Milan. That's right.

Isn't it? Yeah, no, we said the reserves. We said the reserve team and that was strong enough to do Milan. Sorry, James, I'm just rubbing it in. Because we at San Siro, we're having a field time at the moment. Now it was actually a crazy week and probably if you play the same tie 10 times again, nine times at least, Milan will probably win that tie. It was only probably because of the red card of Theo Hernandez, who was incredibly silly by having that dive like one of the biggest swimming actors in a pool.

But you know, in the final players, the defenders couldn't believe it. Look, they thought it was fantastic because just to go back on this sort of like second team, Feyenoord had 13 players injured. Player number 14 was a striker Julian Carranza, who Feyenoord signed on a free from Philadelphia, a player who came in as striker number three for the squad. They sold Santiago Jimenez the Mexican top scorer for 35 million euros to AC Milan. Of course, 10 days later after the thing he plays against Feyenoord and we are having to do we apostrophe final we're having to we're having to play with this third striker who was so sick in the three days before and he was still having a fever and he was still feeling really rough but they said you must come

on the plane we'll give you loads of paracetamols. So I think they gave him 10 on the day. And the 18 year old kid who had to play from the junior team who they had to bring out, he had to come off school and start up front, he could only play for an hour then he was so tired. So then Carranza came on in the last 20 minutes, sick as a parent and scored the vital goal. Well, that really sums up everything about that night. Theo Hernandez, red card, a six striker who was number three, the whole lot. And it was drama in many, many ways. But what really struck me when Maisie Milano went up so quickly,

um, won it, where was the flair? Where is the flair? And this counts for all the three teams. Where is the flair in the football of these Italian teams? Because if we look at Juve, Atalanta, AC Milan, all of them have a squad worth 600 million. If you look at who they played, Bruges 150 million euros, PSV 300 million, Feyenoord 280, far less than half, in some cases a third of the value. And when you have quality players on the pitch, you must try and have the flair of playing attacking

football as well, and not be defensive, be careful. And that's where I'm most disappointed about the whole Italian teams this week. That's a really interesting point, Marcel. I mean, if you look at those three teams, I mean, two of them have changed coach in the summer. In AC Milan's case, changed the coach Christmas as well. Changed the coaches. And he's probably out by Easter.

Yeah, well, and that is the big question right now. He is more out than in when it comes to his option being taken up in the summer. This is Sergio Conte-Sao, listeners at AC Milan. But they've changed coach, changed executives. And the reason behind that change of coaches both clubs Juventus and AC Milan wanted to have a more progressive game model yeah style of play which is more in keeping with how teams play at the very highest level in Europe. And if you look at Tiago Motta's predecessor,

Juventus, that was Max Allegri. Allegri was, I think, quite harshly criticized, but you can see why he was criticized for being this kind of old school, Cattinaccio figure from Italy's past. Yeah, okay, let's change, let's move away from that. With Milan, it was more a case of, we've had six or seven years under Stefano Pioli,

he's taken the team as far as we can, we think he can go. Let's bring in some Iberian expertise, let's get some Portugiesers to come and do some business with us and make us play a more open, fluid style of football. And you can see that both of these clubs that have had very clear identities in the past and have worked very well on the back Of those identities at this moment. They don't quite know who they are and I think it's in moments like that

When teams can capitalize and take advantage and that money gap that Marcel referenced all of a sudden becomes less of a differentiator. So, yeah, Feyenoord I think embarrassed Milan. We can talk about the circumstances, my name is Stake, first leg, Thierry Hernandez, red card, but ultimately, if Feyenoord sack their coach before the tie, if Feyenoord sell their best player to AC Milan and then have 13 players out injured and still contrive to qualify, it's embarrassing for Milan. But you're writing what you say that every game, if you look at it, it could have gone a different way.

The perfect example of it, even though you wouldn't say because of the result, is Atalanta Bruges. It could have been, Atalanta could have gone ahead. And then I look at Brusch, of course they qualified and it's historic and they're doing really well. And I'm thinking, would this be like this Brusch? Would it be like Monaco of 2015-17 when Mbappé was there and Bernardo Silva and Tomás Lemara and Fabinho? And I remember watching them and thinking, these guys in four or five years, they're gonna be in the biggest clubs around.

And no, Bruges don't have that. Bruges is a team that is basically a team. The top players is Hans Van Aken who, I think Pep Guardiola stopped him after playing Manchester City and said, you look so good in the middle. You give pause to the side, you control the game and gave him a really good accolade but he's 32 so he's never come to the

Premier League. Ardon Yashary who's a pitbull in the middle that's another good player that got under two wingers, Talby and Solis but not players that are going to go and jump into something else and then that and then you And then that, and then you look at the game and you think Atalanta had the chance to go through for sure. And from the Atalanta side of things, James, I just, so tell us what's going on with Adam Ola-Lukman because the fascinating thing for me is that we've got a coach here in Gian Piero Gasparini who every single time we've talked about Atalanta on this show, it's been about him and how great he is. It's interesting to see a different perspective.

Yeah, I think this is maybe one that has been underplayed over the last seven or eight years. Gasparini is a hard coach to work for. He works his players intensely hard in terms of their physical and conditioning, mentally as well. And we've had players who over the last few years have moved on from Atalanta, they've got their big move or they've gone somewhere else. And those players have opened up and Gasparini hasn't taken kindly to what they've said about working for him. I can't remember whether it was Robin Goersens or Joachim Meyler, but one of them alleged that he was a dictator and this sort of thing. He in the press conference that followed those interviews was very hurt by that. But you see in his comments about Lukman, So for the listeners who haven't seen this story,

what happened was Atlanta had the chance to get, they were 3-0 down at halftime. Luckmann comes on, scores the quickest goal, I think, of a substitute in Atlanta's history in Champions League, something like that. They then win a penalty. And the designated penalty takers, Matteo Riteghi and Charlotte De Quetta, they look at Lukman and say,

man, you're having a great night so far. We think you should take it. And he takes it, and it's saved by Simon Mignolet. Mignolet had a fantastic game, by the way. And as Guillem kind of alluded to, that was like, I think that signal to Atlanta, it just wasn't going to be their night. They'd hit the post a couple of times,

had a shot cleared off the line, missed the penalty so they go out and Afterwards gasperini does his post-match interviews, you know with the broadcasters and he's fine about Lookman Yeah, it's fine. He then goes down into the press conference where he's done Maybe 45 minutes of talking about this penalty over and over and over again And then he kind of really lets people know what he thinks about it. And he says, it's the worst penalty he's ever seen. And Luckmann, even in training, his conversion rate is one of the lowest at Atlanta. He shouldn't have taken it.

And so the following day, Adam Ola-Luckmann put out a statement basically saying he was very disappointed by his marriage's comments to be singled out in the way that he had been because Lukman had been their best chance on the night in pulling back that tie. And let's not forget that, Atlantis first trophy in 63 years or something came on the back of an Adam Ola-Lukman hat trick against a team in Bayo Leverkusen

that were undefeated in 53 games. He's the African player of the year. He's your best player. And he'd taken four penalties and scored them all, no? Yeah. I mean, he hadn't taken any last season, but in his first season, he took penalties and converted them. So I mean, if his conversion rate is one of the lowest at Atlanta,

I mean, people are taking good penalties. He did famously miss one for Fulham once in the 90th minute of a game when he tried a Pinenka. I remember that being a bit of a story at the time. Well, at least he didn't try a Pinenka here. But one final point here is that if you want to focus on this penalty miss being the reason why Atlanta are no longer in Europe, it's mistaken and I don't want to single out another player but there's another penalty miss, Matero Riteghi at 0-0 against Arsenal in the league phase where if he puts that away they're not even in the playoffs. So, you know, again, it's slightly

strange from Gasparini to have a go at Lukman for having the courage to take a penalty when his other designated penalty takers on the back of missing penalties themselves gave the ball to Lukman. Well, so here's the thing, James did a very good job of paraphrasing the quote there. I've just got it in front of me. This is what Gasparini said, Luckmann was not supposed to take that penalty. He is one of the worst penalty takers I've ever seen. He has a frankly terrible record in training. He converts very few of them. Riteggy and de Kettle were there, but Luckmann, in a moment of enthusiasm after scoring, decided to take the ball. that was a gesture I did

not appreciate at all. To me, Guillaume, this just smacks off, he's got it wrong and he doesn't realise that actually it was these players saying to Luckmann, you take it. That's what it feels like. It feels like he's gone big on something only to find out that perhaps it wasn't the way he saw it. Or frustration or I cannot explain. I don't remember any other declaration of love for a player like that in history. Nothing like it. Even if it was right, it would still be incredibly strong. You're just killing somebody. Perhaps even professionally, you drop him a couple of levels

just because of what you said. I remember penalties being missed recently by Real Madrid, for instance, and Celotti said, we're just going to try different things. He didn't go and point out at one of the players missing it. What's clear is that there's been a situation, which I'm sure James will tell us about, with Lugman, which will bring Lugman out of Atlanta, that's for sure. But I just wonder

how did he build up to this? Okay, so I think there are a couple of things to say here. One is the start of this segment. I said there was this feeling that he is allegedly a dictator, you know, this sense that he's this all-powerful, but so someone going against his rules, if you like, it's not gonna be liked, right? There's this feeling that Gasparini has built Atalanta from this small club to a big club. You know, they have a small club name,

but they're really a big club now, in terms of like, continually qualifying for the Champions League, Europa League, from this small club to a big club. They have a small club name, but they're really a big club now in terms of like, in continually qualifying for the Champions League, Europa League and that sort of thing, in continuing to find players, develop players and then sell them for big money, they've been able to upgrade the stadium, upgrade the training ground, and a lot of that is down to him. So it's very difficult to challenge Gasparini. It's very difficult to basically say, you know, hang on a minute,

you're having a go at one of our star players, one of our biggest assets. And we'll get to this, we risk losing him now. Now, again, the backstory here is that in the summer on the back of scoring that hat-trick in the Europa League final against Bayer Leverkusen, everyone starts talking about Adam Al. Luckman, yeah, Luckman quite rightly thinks, have I achieved everything that I set out to achieve at Atalanta? We've won a trophy. Okay. What else can we do? Can we win the league? It's improbable. This is now the moment to leave. Yeah, he has interest from PSG. Now, he felt that he had an agreement with a club that if an offer came in, they would shake hands and he would be allowed to go. And that obviously is contingent on the offer being acceptable to the club, which I don't think the one verbalized by PSG was.

And so in the context of another star player, Atalanta, holding out, Tejan Kukminas, held out because he wanted to go to Juventus. Lukman did the same. He was like, okay, I'm not gonna play. So that was inconvenient, particularly, Guillermo will remember this, around the time of the European Super Cup when they played Real Madrid. Now it would have been a great thing

for Atlanta to beat Real Madrid. Just to say that you've done it and you've won a trophy by beating Real Madrid. Now all of this was going on in the background around that. And yet it doesn't really, yeah, Ademola Lukman wants the transfer window closed, put his boots on, started scoring goals. Construent professional from the moment

the transfer window closed, and has picked up where he left off last season in being, along with Shardé Ketteler, arguably the best player in Serie A. So, you know, you now have a situation where his contract is up in 2026, if I'm correct. And like, you know, what does what does Gasparini do here? Because when when players have challenged him, and he'll look at that post from Adimola Lukman as someone challenging him openly, he's usually got them out of the

club. Like Papagomis, for example. Papagomis was the most important player at Atlanta, that first spell of Gasparini, and Gasparini outed him. And so you wonder, what are the consequences of this going to be? Are we going to see Lukman frozen out? Are they going to make up? Because they are still in a title race with Napoli

stumbling, with Inter stumbling, Atalanta still have a chance and they need players like Lukman to be scoring goals and playing regularly if they are to have a chance at history again. Will Barron Dutch clubs have given us great stories in the Champions League as we've been saying. PSV beating Juventus 3-1 after extra time knocking them out 4-3 on aggregate. A win secured Marcel by the brilliantly named Ryan Flamingo. Flamingo, yeah. And what did boys say about Sportsteft that evening when he scored one of the lads who was on the death test with one leg in the next round?

That's good, that's good. Yeah, that was great. Great. It was actually a really, really cracking game in many, many ways. It was fierce. It was hard. It was tough. Great atmosphere. And well, one of the, I know everybody singles out the young players who PSV, I never got, Joanne Baccaiocco, Ismail Sabari, you know, great midfielders wingers, two Belgian Moroccan kind of guys. But there was one man on the pitch who I think we need to single out. 36 year old. Yeah. Scores a vital goal to get PSV in it. Ivan Perisic, sorry, yes, stumbling over his name.

And if we look at the track record of this man, I looked at it again tonight and I thought, Heiduk Split, Sochon in France, Club Bruges, Rousselaar in Belgium, Wolfsburg, Dortmund, Inter, Spurs, Bayern Munich. It's absolutely fascinating. The man has played 140 times for his country, done the business everywhere for Croatia. And in this modern day, where everybody's always saying we have to rotate, how do we keep our players fit?

The amount of injuries, and I'm going back to the San Siro game, 13 players on final, injured, most of them muscle injuries. Piricic just shows you, look, you can keep in shape, you can keep going at 36, you can still play in the Champions League and even be a vital View on the Football Daily. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball. I'm John Murray.

And I'm Ian Dennis. And Fridays on the Football Daily means one thing. It's time for the Commentator's View episode. Join us every Friday as we look ahead to the weekend's football action with a few untold stories along the way. A wasp flew into my mouth while I was talking and I panume Balaguey, all with us on the Euroleague. Still to come we'll do some Real Madrid, we'll do a bit of Bayern Munich as well. Always great to get a manager of a European football club live on the Euroleague.

I'm delighted to say that the Lommel SK boss Ryan Gary has joined us. Good evening Ryan. Good evening everyone. How are you doing? I'm good thank you. I'm very good. So, are you still interim at the moment? Yes.

Okay, so what is that like? We never speak to interim managers. Okay. Yeah, no, it's an interesting role. Obviously, I've been in the role now for four weeks. It's gone very quickly. It is very different from being an assistant manager, I've got to say, but I'm really enjoying the experience. The biggest change is probably you have to make more decisions. You've got to inform players that all of a sudden they're not starting games and the reasons why.

So yeah, in terms of decisions that you have to make, that would be the biggest change, I would say. So you went there with Steve Ball, obviously Arsenal legend, he was manager, he left in the middle of January. What is it like when that happens? And you presumably at that point know, well, I would quite like a crack at it, but then the guy you sort of went there to work with has left, that must be quite complicated emotionally. Yeah, it is. Steve is obviously someone that I've worked with before. I came over here in January of 2024, was really enjoying the role. And then obviously when Steve decided

to leave and the club has asked me to step in, I took the opportunity to try and help them. And as I say, it's been a good experience. We're certainly in a difficult moment, if I'm being honest, and I'm very hopeful that we can get some positive results in hopefully very soon. Ryan, how has Steve and yourself been received? You go abroad, you perhaps didn't have that experience before, but you take your family there, so you're fully committed to the job. What sense you had from people about your background, and especially which nation you came from?

Yeah, very positive. I've got to say, like you say, I moved out here with my wife and my three young boys. We've really enjoyed life out here. Everyone's been very welcoming. And yeah, it's been a great experience so far. We've really enjoyed the opportunity of living abroad and the new challenges and experiences that's brought us as a family. And then from a professional perspective, you know, it's it's really refreshing

to be in a new country, you know, a different league. And, you know, it's It's still the same game of football that we all love, but certainly in terms of a learning opportunity and experience, it's been really good, really beneficial and the welcome has been great. I'd love to know what your wife said when you said, listen, we're moving to Lomel. Moving to Lommel. Yeah, I mean, listen up, before I came to Lommel, I was working at the FA, which was a really good role. I was there for two and a half years and it was always going to be a big decision to leave,

to be honest. And I just felt that certainly for me, in my stage of my career. You know, I was very keen to work abroad because I think it's something that would ultimately develop me, you know, as a coach, but more importantly, as a person. The project that we've got as Long West Car as part of the city group is very unique as well because we're one of the development clubs.

So I, you know, after sort of seeing the project and meeting a few people and speaking to people and ultimately came to decision to make the jump and it's, yeah, you know, 12 months in, it's been really good, really enjoyable. Ryan, the stadium has always been quite small. You probably, you know, having worked in England and having played, you probably, you know, having worked in England and having played, you probably

see a totally different atmosphere. It is a kind of a challenge to get the atmosphere and the vibe going in an area where there is not really the biggest football culture. Is that hard? It's different. I've got to be honest with you. But no, listen, in terms of the club, it's very unique. It's a very special club, I've got to say. The history of the club is very interesting. And there's some special people locally that you speak to in terms of the fan base that are really desperate

for the club to do well. And hopefully, if we can get ourselves into the main division, the first league, hopefully there will be a few more fans that turn up at the sovereign stadium. And you'll have to keep the scouts of PSV Eindhoven out, ban them, keep them banned from the training ground, because the amount of players, I think even someone, whether it's either Saibari or Bakayoko used to be at Lomoldo, who's now playing for PSV, who played last night against Juventus. Because there is indeed, there is talent around and a lot of kids have come from there, but

PSV have always been stealing and nicking. Don't you have Mo Salah? You have Mo Salah playing for you, don't you? We do, we do. Yes, yes. Mo Salah, our Mo Salah, the Lomu Mo Salah joined us in the summer and yeah he's an exciting young winger. Brian you said that you and your family are learning things from being abroad. What would be one thing that you've learned as a coach or as an interim manager that you wouldn't have learned if you hadn't gone abroad? What's that thing that is new in your armour?

There's many things, I think probably to put things into perspective, we're a very young team and for the previous two games we've had 11 different nationalities. So certainly from a communication perspective trying to make sure that I can be as concise as I can be to a multiple, you know, a multinational starting lineup. That's been the biggest thing. I would say, you know, clarity of communication. And also as well, I think there's, you know, understanding the cultural nuances and differences as well. That's been really good learning.

And I think that certainly in the role that I'm in now, that's only something that's going to improve me as a coach and also as a person, because you've got to consider the difference in the change room. You've got to respect it and also try to understand it as best as you can. Will Barron I'm really interested, Ryan, in the thing about being part of the city football group, which Lommel are. So with these kind of multi-club models, we normally talk about them through the lens of whoever the big club at the centre of the wheel is, if you like, as opposed to the smaller clubs who are at the end of the spokes. So do you feel, do you think,

and do Lomel feel like they are part of a wider family? Is that shown in some way? Do you feel connected? Yeah, yeah, I do certainly. I mean, in the 12 months that I've been here, Yeah, I do certainly. I mean, in the 12 months that I've been here, you know, we can, we've been to Palermo ourselves. So we're one of the development clubs. So there's ourselves Troyes in France and then Monte Vidao in Uruguay. We're the development clubs where ultimately the younger players will be placed and obviously hope to develop and then ultimately to place them in a different league. But in terms of contacts with other clubs, yeah, that happens. We've had visits from New York, Bahia, Palermo, a lot of the different clubs, which I think is a strength of being part of such a global network. I think that probably the challenge would be for the big bosses, if you like, to make

sure that everything's going as they want it. But in terms of contact throughout the 12 months that I've been here, there certainly has been contact. And it's always interesting to speak to different people, places across the globe who are all working in football, but again, there's slight differences with each club. Ryan, tell us a bit about your ambitions going forward then. You're still only 41, so you're still a very young coach. This is an experience that you will have, which will make you pretty unique. I mean, there aren't many young British coaches coaching abroad. There are certainly

more than there used to be. Do you know what you want to do with it or are you just taking it as it comes at the minute? I think, listen, my journey has been, I think, quite a unique one. Having to retire fairly early through injury and, you know, the majority of my coaching career has been in youth development. Obviously, my first coaching experience was with AFC Bulma, the club where I finished my career. And, you know, over the previous 13 to 14 years, I've been, yeah, really grateful for the different opportunities that I've had. And certainly, each opportunity has given me something to move on to next and learn from and take on my journey. I'm really enjoying, you know, the role that I'm in currently

and certainly working abroad. I've really enjoyed, you know, like I said earlier, the the learning experiences, you know, operating in a different culture and even, as I say, working with a different set of players, obviously. Previously, the majority of kids that I've coached have been British based. But I think for me now it's all about being as good as I can be in this current role, given the stage of the season that we're at and where we are as a club at the moment. And ultimately one day I'd love to work at the highest level possible for sure.

Ryan, it's been brilliant to have you on. Really, really interesting to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on and good luck for the rest of the season. Thank you ever so much. Top man. Good luck, Ryan. Ryan Gary, who's in charge at Lommel Esk here in Belgium, joining us live there on the Euroleagues. He was really good. So we're basically going to, as we say in the industry, biff one of the topics, which means get rid of one of the topics. So either we're not doing Real Madrid or Bayern Munich. Guillaume? Guillaume's from Barcelona, he'll biff Real Madrid, surely. We have to touch on Bayern at some point. All right, Bayern Munich it is then, Guillaume. You know, you've got to,

this is tough decisions. I said bad. I said bad. I was going to say that it feels the subject of refereeing and Real Madrid is so hot. It's all we're talking about in Spain. So all right, which one do you want to do then? Let's do Real Madrid. Okay, we'll do Real Madrid. Right. Fine. So let's just do Kylian Mbappe first then and then we'll do the referees. He always goes for the big names, doesn't he?

Skoda Hatrick obviously Kylian Mbappe, the beat Manchester City 3-0, no it wasn't 3-0, it was 3-1 on Wednesday comfortably going through on aggregate. I think basically the thing to say, Guillaume, about Mbappe is his goal numbers have actually been really good all season. However, it is only now seemingly that it really feels like it's all knitted together. It was a crowning moment for Mbappé at Madrid. There is no question at all now about who is the leader of that team and what everybody else has to do so he becomes the best goalscorer of the league and the Champions League. But it's been a fascinating process that we've

been talking about every, at least once a month. Oh, he's not happy. Oh, he's just easy chances are not being converted. Misses two penalties against Liverpool and Athletic Club. And all of a sudden in his mind, something clicks, which is interesting because he was at the lowest point of his time at Real Madrid when he thought, you know what, I'm going to be myself. I've got to do it in my own way.

And then he kept shooting and trying and goals came in, even though it wasn't a good percentage of goals to shots, but all of a sudden those goals gave him confidence. They worked with David Angelotti, especially in the kind of movements that he requires to do as a number nine. Now he loves the position. Remember only 12 months ago we were saying he didn requires to do as a number nine. Now he loves the position. Remember, only 12 months ago, we were saying he didn't want to be a number nine. Now he understands what that is, but especially because the other thing that is required to have the proper or one single leader has to happen,

which is that everybody else has to recognize that. And even Vinicius does that. Vinicius, who a couple of weeks ago says will help him be the best goal scorer. Bellingham you can see that he identifies movements of Mbappé and looks at him first before anybody else and now Mbappé everything he tries goes in plus he flies the way he runs it's like he's not touching the floor so we've seen the best Mbappé in a long long time and with that Ancelotti made a comparison to Cristiano Ronaldo. He could be like Cristiano Ronaldo. He said Mbappe has the quality to reach his numbers. James, let me ask you about a quote

from Mbappe himself. Is there anything more terrifying than this for any defenders in Champions League rivals for the rest of this season? The adaption period for me has ended. Now I will show my quality." There you go. What I found interesting about Guillaume's analysis just now was the discussion about the role of the Angellotes, both father and son. Because over the last, what, 20 years, I think there's no doubt people think of Pep Guardiola as being the most influential coach of this generation.

Pep is, Carlo is from a generation before, but he's obviously won the Champions League more than anybody else, you know, just as a manager, but then you add his titles as a player as well. And what is his legacy from a football point of view beyond the trophies he's won? Because color changes wherever he goes, he moves with the times.

But it's that, what Guillem was talking about there, making someone like Kylian Mbappe, not reinvent himself, but like something that he previously didn't like, or making me feel comfortable in a new role, which I think is something the Ancelotti's are extremely good at when it comes to working with these star players, these high-performance individuals. I don't know what you make of it, Kier. Well, just on that line, they have divided the roles, haven't they? Davide is the coach and Carlo is the manager. And Carlo told me last night something that I let it pass

and then I thought about it, ooh, that's interesting, which was that he's always been saying all season, the success will come if we defend well, right? So he put together in the same room, Bellingham, Rodrigo, Vinicius and Mbappe, and told them, look guys, unless you wear for the side, this is not going to happen. So he didn't go, I asked him, did you, did you put videos there?

No, he just basically spoke to them as the grandfather or the father of the group. As James is talking about doing that role. Well, David will just go to the detail and make sure that they do what they're supposed to do. So it works for Real Madrid at the moment. Right. We are going to be really, really top Euroleague Z efficient here. We've got two minutes left. One minute is going to be Guillaume Balaguez on why Real Madrid are kicking off about referees. And then the other minute is going to be about who the next manager of Feyenoord is. Guilhem, go. So Real Madrid feel that they've been treated unfairly by referees this season. There's

been a lot of controversies. Perhaps Carlos Romero of Espanyol should have been sent off for a tackle on Mbappé. He goes and scores the only goal of the game and Espanyol wins another penalty against Osasuna, et cetera. Basically, Real Madrid feel and not only feel they want everybody to know that they've been badly treated, which comes as a shock to many, and talks in a public statement that they put out there that those decisions have reached a level of manipulation that undermines the competition. What are they talking about? They are Real Madrid, they get most of the calls anyway. So Tebas has come out with a little bit of an explanation of why they're going that way. They want to undermine La Liga to eventually get to the European Super League. That's all I can tell you in a minute.

Perfect, 55 seconds. I've just counted them. Marcel, you're down to 40 now just because of that comment. Who's it going to be? A familiar name perhaps? Yes, of course. And it's going to be Robin van Persie. And guess what? What will be the biggest draw we can get on Friday in the next Champions League? Who could find a draw? Arsenal. Well, is that a dream? It's 50%, it's Arsenal and Inter. And if it's Arsenal, well, I think Arsenal fans are rubbing their hands. Right, that's it for this episode of the EuroLeague. Big thank you to Guillaume, James and Marcel for joining us. And as always, thank you so much for listening.