Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Champions League underdogs

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Ballague, Julien Laurens & Rafa Honigstein following a week of surprise in Europe. After their shock win over Manchester City, Bodo Glimt's 'Culture Coach', Bjorn Mannsverk, lifts the lid on what has created their winning environment.  From one underdog in the Champions League to another; Qarabag are a draw at Anfield away from the play-offs. Does their win over Frankfurt highlight a wider issue in German football?  Plus, Marcel Van de Kraan of De Telegraaf joins to discuss Erik Ten Hag's appointment as technical director at Twente and the latest from the Van Persie dynasty. Timecodes: 8'17 Bodo Glimt's Culture Coach Bjorn Mannsverk 18'38 Qarabag 24'12 German football 31'30 Marcel Van de Kraan joins

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and they certainly don't have shower thoughts, pivotal hallway chats, or big ideas. People do. And people, when given the best AI platform, they're freed up to do the fulfilling work they want to do. To see how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people, visit servicenow. On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues with Steve Crossman. Welcome to the Euroleagues. Hello, Guillem.

Hello, Steve, how are you? In the same place as you, no less. In the same place as you, you are real. I am real, yes. I forgot you wear. Were you starting to think that I was AI? Yeah, that's right. Yes, yes, yes.

There's no intelligence here, artificial or otherwise. But that's nothing on you, Julianne. Is you okay? Very good. How are you? Very good, thank you. I was with Guillem in Marseille yesterday. He had, as you can imagine, the most beautiful jacket and shirts.

Oh, thank you. Ready for the game. I was the first time I used it. Thank you. I actually got a present for Steve from my chair. No, you didn't. Yes. Is this for me?

Yes, you have to open it. It says, I don't know what it is. Svignon de Olympique Marseille. Let's see if we can do a bit of... Is it a SMR? Is that what it's called? It's not working.

It is working. All right, who are you to judge Raphaonicstein? Honestly. I should have got an easy, pressing nothing. Oh, it's open now. I'm in. Goodness me.

It's a new Apple. No, I'm joking. What is it? This is the sky. of Marseille, of course. Oh, beautiful. It's the skyline. I hold it up to the camera so the guys can see. You'll just have to imagine it at home. It's the skyline of Marseille. Looks pretty sharp, probably not allowed in a studio, Guillem.

But I appreciate you nonetheless. Thank you very much. Yeah, okay. That's beautiful. Thanks very much. Right, so we've got Guillem. We've got Jules. We've got Raphael Honkstein. We've got a great show coming up. We're going to start with the story in the Champions League this week. That was a brilliant night for Bird of Glimp, was it?

And they've had some big nights in Europe before. Maybe listeners will remember when they thrashed Jose Marino's Roma 6-1 a few years ago. And I'm not going to lie to you, this is one of the guests that I've been most excited to speak to for a very, very long time. So this is going to be a lot of fun. Delighted to say we can speak now to one of the men who's played a really big role in the rise of Burdeglint. And that is their mentality coach, Bjorn Mansvirk, who's not a former player. He's a former fighter pilot. Good evening, Bjorn.

Good evening. There's loads to talk to about Bjorn, but can we just go straight in on being a fighter pilot because I just think it's fascinating. So what are the crossover skills? And what's a mentality coach? Yeah. If you start with the latter,

I'm not really sure if I would call myself a mentality coach because we work in so many different arenas. And it's a lot of leadership. It's how we organize, we communicate and if you could sum it up actually I like the CEO of Buddha Guinti calls me a culture coach or a culture advisor or culture builder so I like that description better yeah how can we find crossovers I mean as a fighter pilot you are you are flying alone you are alone in the cockpit but you still you

hunt together with others you are a team so so it's always the weakest link It's always a matter of trusting each other and have a good understanding and be loyal to the plan. And obviously that we need to learn all the time. Because what we did yesterday is not necessarily good enough for tomorrow. And for us being a fighter pilot, if we have to go on, if you're not good enough, if you fail, that could have a fatal consequence. So the motivation to become better every day is so dominant. So, but I see just a lot of crossovers. What is the team element of being a fighter pilot then?

Because, yeah, I've seen Top Gun, and it does seem to be a lot about Tom Cruise. So how are you finding that aspect of it and translating it? Yeah, first of all, me and Tom Cruise, we are a look-alike. Yes, absolutely, yeah, identical. I thought it was Tom Cruise on the line, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, my experience is that it's definitely a teamwork. We are a small group of specialists or athletes, top athletes, I would say.

We have to kind of face new challenges all the time. Just look at the technology. Technology is really hitting the armed forces at high speed, not only us, but also with the opposing themes, if you could call it like that. So you have to keep up, and you should always be. in a lead of the ones you compete against. So we need to sit down and be good on evaluating what we are doing together, being able to identify the real lessons learned and figure out how we can fix that and implement

every, every day to always be maybe just a margin ahead of the ones we compete against. So building that security to to be able to raise your voice, come up with new ideas, and hopefully be creative enough to event something new. It is so important. A culture coach. These two things I'd like to ask you. The second one will be what does it mean to have a culture

in an institution like a football club. But first, do you find a culture coach in your club because you are surrounded by an atmosphere of needing to learn that could. be in your country or in Scandinavia or are you one-off and you started experimenting and it kind of worked how did you reach to that conclusion that you didn't need one that buddeglip needed a cultural coach no this is the story goes actually way back if i if i can rewind because we did some mental training program in my squadron back in 2009 2010 that was just a

That was just something we tested out. That's not normal for Norwegian fighter pilots. In 2016, Buregrim, they were inbound to celebrate their 100 anniversary. But it didn't turn out to be a celebration because they didn't manage to stay in the top level. And they basically saw that it was not due to the lack of skills, I mean, football skills. they basically realized that during the last part of the season, they mentally collapsed as a team. And they also acknowledged that we don't have anything

when it comes to mental training in the club. So this was one in Baudiglint, that actually took action and said that, I believe that we can become good in mental training as well, because we do become good on what we practice when it comes to football skills. So he started to look for something, being aware that there is a little stigma

when it comes to mental training, or at least it was. So he wanted to find something that, kind of a silver bullet that could penetrate this resistance and this stigma. And he came across by coincidence, he was actually having a cup of coffee with another fighter pilot, a colleague of me,

that was part of this problem, program in 2009, 2010. Actually, just a few hundred meters away from the stadium in Buda. So he really liked the method, how well it was received by the fighter pilots and the rest of the squadron personnel, and not at least the positive effect on individuals, but also the positive effect on the group or the team itself. So he figured out if it works for a fighter pilot, I guess it's going to work for a football player as well. So that was the starting point. So there was no plan from my side at least to engage in football, not at all.

And Bjorn, how can you, like more practically maybe for the listeners and for us, what was it they like for you? What do you do? Is it individual interviews with the players? Do you wait for players to come to you? Is there like group sessions? Do you do any kind of exercise in particular? Do you put them in a situation and they have to find answers?

What is it exactly more, more practically, how you coach them? It's more or less all of the above, but it has changed since we started. Remember, they took the initiative and we figured out that, okay, I'll come with my experience and share my perspectives. And after that, I would say this is something that we developed. And we have tested out, we have tried, we have failed. We have succeeded. We have gone back to some of the methods. But we started out with, I did this on my spare time.

It was kind of a hobby. So limited capacity when it comes to home and the players. But for me, it was really important that people had to volunteer. You can't really force mental work on people. So Bodeglimp picked out some players, players that actually were struggling. But they did believe in them. They saw that they had a talent, but they didn't really get, they didn't really manage to get their potential out.

So I sat down talking one-to-one with, I think it was seven, eight players in the beginning. No problem. They were talking. They were sharing. That was no problem at all. But then I kind of just put them together in a group, because that was my background that we always meet in a group. And we share, we give each other feedback. And I didn't know football.

I didn't understand football. But I understood that they were really good. They had skills and also good understanding. So, okay, now I just facilitate. You can start talking. And it became hopeful silence. So they were not used to work as a team. So they only feedback flowed.

That was the monologue from the coach team, not because they wanted it, but that was the setup. So then we figure out that, okay, now we need to practice, go very basic. Hey, can we start talking about something in this group? And when they were exposed to talking to each other, and they saw that that worked, then we started to twist it to, hey, we need to talk about the right stuff here. And we need to be robust enough to kind of challenge each other. and maybe throw out some new ideas and suddenly it started to roll. The group became more and more safe or secure with each other.

And they shared whatever. There was no problem. And they also ended up with, in a way, evented, a creative phase and they evented new tools or things we could use in the games, for instance. And that it has been changing a little bit from maybe less one-to-one sessions. It's more on demand to just group sessions. And then right now we are back to talking to everybody. It's not like volunteering anymore.

But it's more with an intention to prepare for group sessions. And we split the team. Right now we split it into four. so we get good group dynamic, like seven, eight players in a group. And we also use, we have established a captain's team, if you didn't know. We used to have eight captains until recently. Matches good with four groups, because then you can split two captains in each group. And they kind of run their soul in a way.

They talk and they share, but they are leading, I mean, re-leaders. They do have that. They walk to talk and a pretty good understanding over philosophy. And they are actually playing as captains as well. They select themselves who's going to be the captain in the game. So everything is in a process. And this is based on discussions with the captain's team, with the coach team. So it's a lot of we in this project.

Bjorn, there's many amazing things about your club, starting with the fact that you have almost exclusively Norwegians, many of them locals, no real outside investments, is all done organically. But actually the thing that threw me most that I found most surprising is that you have your sort of version of the children's game, yes, no, black, white, where there's certain things that cannot be mentioned or won't be mentioned by the coach. One of them being win and lose, which I find absolutely astonishing. Can you quickly explain why it is and what happens there exactly? I think that's more people like to describe, or media like to describe it like that. The point is that when we started, when I came in to the club with my background from the Air Force

and the fighter pilot community, my reference was that since we didn't go to war, I mean, luckily, we didn't go to war. So we didn't like meet Russia or China every Sunday and had a game, and then we could have a result to look at if we're good or not. We just had, we were forced to focus on our own processes and performance. When I met Bodeglimt, they were at a typical football club. It was a matter of winning games, getting points and so on.

But for me, that was, I needed to challenge them on that part. But it took a while. This is not a quick fix. But we started in the spring of 2017. And in January 2019, I think that enough players have been challenged over time. And they were ready to let go with the result. The point with not focusing on the result is that we have scared time and resources. I mean, we need to prioritize what we spend time and energy on. and at least what we spend time and energy on, that need to be kind of controllable.

We need to be able to do something about it. And we can't really fully control the result. So that's one of the logic why we should just let go with that. It doesn't really matter. You don't necessarily perform well if you win a game or vice versa. Yeah. The other thing is that if you start focusing on the result, which is not controllable, that could be very much stressful

compared to only focusing on what you can control. And we just expect the players to go out and play at their potential. Nothing more than what we have seen during trainings and so on like that. And it takes away a lot of pressure if you can let go with the result and just focus on what you can control. Bjorn, just before we let you go then, just one more thing that I want to ask you is from that sort of mentality culture perspective,

How would you help players when they have to do something like come up against Erling Harlan, come up against effectively a national hero and a bit of a phenom? What is the mentality secret to helping players at Buda Glimt come to terms with that and thrive in that environment? Our philosophy is like we should practice the same thing every day. It doesn't really matter who we are up to. Because as soon as we start changing something, then they kind of get the feeling that this is a very important game or this is difficult. And then the stress easily takes over.

So we try to run business as usual. So we don't do anything special since it's Breit-Holand. But obviously, we analyze Massachusetts City as a team to figure out what are the strengths, what are the weaknesses and so our task every time we go out on the pitch is first of all dare to be yourself trust your own skills and and not not do anything special but also be loyal to the to the game plan and that's what i saw versus manchester city i think that by far i think the best performance we ever did so so much many people were fearless and they really did stay to the plan. They were really loyal.

And then we see the power in playing as a team. Bjorn, it's been absolutely lovely to have you with us. Thank you so much for coming on. Congratulations again on an amazing victory and good luck at Atletico as well, because we could be talking about you in the knockout round. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. the banks of the River Nile. Everybody call me Muhammad, but you know, short name or nickname, they call me Mo.

To the biggest stages of world football. He goes for the Kala! Sala is more than just a player. He's an icon, a symbol, a king. Muhammad Sala represents a dream for Egyptians, for Muslims, for Africans. More than just a football player, he gave us hope. I'm Kelly Kate.

This is Sporting Giants, Mo Sala. Listen on BBC Sound. On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleaks with Steve Crosman. Another big story in the Champions League this week. Karabag's 3-2 win over Frankfurt. Balo Mustafa Azada scored the winner in the 94th minute. So he is the first Azerbaijani player to score in the Champions League. Of course, they are the first team from Azerbaijan to play in the Champions League.

And who knows, they might become the first as well to go through to the knockout round. They're 18th in the league. If they were to get a draw at Liverpool next week, it could be enough for a playoff place. And we'll talk, Raf, shortly about German teams in the Champions League and Frankfurt right up at the top of the list. But we've got to start with Carabag. I mean, it is one of the great stories of this Champions League season, isn't it?

Yeah, one of many. We've seen a few minutes. We've talked about Bodo Glimt earlier on. I think this format gives them more opportunities to have an impact, to have at least one sort of famous night because you have more opponents and maybe opponents knowing that they have eight games to qualify

sometimes take one of those minors a little bit lightly and maybe underestimate them but yeah it was really really great we saw other teams like Pafos doing really well even if they didn't get the results we haven't really seen

at least not in the last few matches that I remember huge score lines which suggests that, you know, the level, even though the differences are still vast in terms of finances and the kind of players they can attract, it hasn't been crazily out of guilt in terms of the quality that we've seen so far. And Karabakh are one of the teams, and even in previous attempts that they've seen, that they've made in group stages and so on, they've always acquitted themselves fairly well. And I think nobody likes to go all the way to Azerbaijan and that, you know, the travel is an issue that can,

affect teams and so on and of course boroughlym can can play on the same thing with the artificial pitch but these are the quirks i think that make this this new format quite entertaining and would it be interesting to see them all the money that they're getting through the champions league obviously helping them to dominate in a home 11 league titles in the last 12 years if that affects the league or if that money is distributed somehow i'm hearing that for instance in poland that is happening so appearances in europe uh some of it goes to the clubs, others stay in the league, and that has made the league really, really fascinating.

But yeah, in this case, it's good to see that at least that growth in the case of Karabakh reflects in good results in Europe for more stories like that. I also, Jill, quite like it when you get the kind of sort of minnow teams whereby you almost feel like you have a national team in a club competition because I could hear the manager of Karabag yesterday was talking about what this will do for Azerbaijani football. the government has been providing them with funding as well,

not the kind of funding that all their opponents have clearly. But it is that sort of thing of almost the feel of a nation taking part. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Corbanov himself, the manager, I think, he's the longest serving manager in the champion. He's been there like 18 years or 19 years, something crazy like that. He's built this team through the years to take it to a Champions League campaign like this where they've had tough times

because when you lose to Ajax who at the time where one of the worst team that we've ever seen in the competition is not nice, but when you beat Frankfurt, when you draw with Chelsea, this is once in a lifetime really for some of those players, players that they found in a lot of different situations,

different other leagues and countries and all of that. And to do that, I think it takes a lot of credit for the manager to be able to put a team like that despite the core of obviously local players as you said, and a lot of them are in the national team. But still, to add a little bit of extra special talent somewhere from other players from

outside the country is very special. And this is stories like that, why we like the Champions League and what we want, what this league phase is also working, because I think it would have been far more difficult in a group of four like it used to be. And those six games, for them to go through, it would have depending heavily on the draw because they would have been put four, for example. So at least the league phase give them more opportunities. more chances than they've taken them so far.

Yeah, and it's worth pointing out as well. Like I said, if they get a point at Anfield, then they're going to go through. But even if they lose, they're 18th, and you've got to finish 25th to miss out on the playoffs. They're on 10 points. They've got Marseille, Lavercouzae and Monaco below them on 9. Then PSV, Athletic Bilbao and Olympi Arcos on 8,

and that rounds out the top 24. So even if they lose, in all probability, they're going to go through. It's the classic raff. It's like Macklesfield Town in the FA Cup. but he's going to want to go to Carabag in the playoff round. No, and they play in Baku, of course, and teams have had problems there going there.

It takes a long time to get in, passport control. There's been some issues with luggage and so on. And it's quite political, of course, because they can't play in their own hometown because of the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia. So I can understand why he's not. Azerbaijani government are quite invested in them and see them as a real symbol for the country and a way to put Azerbaijan on the map as well.

So I'm just looking at the Champions League table here, Raff. And I've got as far as Olympiarchos in 24th. And I'm scrolling. And I'm scrolling. Oh, and I've found Frankfurt in 33rd. I mean, and we'll talk about the wider issues in just a second. But before we do, like, what has happened to Frankfurt? because there were a team only a few years ago

that you thought of as for the top Premier League teams away in Europe, that's a really difficult place to go. They're going to be a real challenger in maybe not the Champions League, but all of the other European competitions. They are miles off it. They're done in Europe now this season. Yeah, I mean, they are terrible at the moment. They won the Conference League not long ago with Oliver Glasner, of course,

but the Champions League has always proved a little bit difficult. This is their, I think, second or third season now, and they haven't really done that well. The jump up is quite big, but the bigger problem is that this has been a Frankfurt team that hasn't been able this season to defend. They've conceded so many goals also in the league. I think the last four games,

every single time they've considered a minimum of three goals. I mean, it's just not sustainable. And that includes Caraback, and that includes late goals, as has happened against Fed of Bremen on Friday and against Carabach. And, of course, Dino Topmuller, lost his job over this slump and form.

And now they had a veteran player, former player, Alex Meyer in charge as a caretake, along with the under 21 coach, and they're looking for a new manager. But it's been a very, very difficult season for Frankfurt. And they are, there are a side, I think we're still trying to establish themselves. Having established themselves as a regular contender to get into the Champions League, they're still behind the likes of Bayern and Dortmund and what would have been. been Leipzig if I hadn't been for a bad season last year, as a German team that can actually cope with those two things at the same time. This year was clear that they couldn't, especially

having once again sold so many good players, Akitika being the best of them, it's just been a bit of a slog for them. I feel like, Raf, we're just on the wheel of German football stories over the years. Like, we had a couple of years, oh, ah, hang on, someone's going to challenge Bayern's dominance here and now the wheel has turned and we're back to is it a problem that they're so dominant? Yeah, it's a problem this season because Byron have only dropped four points or season. They are scoring goals at a ridiculous rate on course of scoring something like 130 goals and they look as if they're going to go unbeaten like Levoquozen have done. You're right, Steve, I think the conversation would be very different if Dortmund had only managed to win

that last game of the season in 2023. Then you'd look at Dortmund, Leverkusen, and now Byn, people would say, okay, fine, it's buying again. But because Leverkusen were the only team to puncture this dominance since 2013, it looks a lot worse. And also because companies Bion have this guadiolla like dominance and strangled hold on opponents and keep going once they're 3-0, 4, up to keep going and score six and seven. Now, this has led to a bit of soul searching and people are worried how that's going to affect the league and so on. On the plus side, the TV ratings are still very good.

By and doing Europe, I think, has a positive knock-on effect because they are being seen as a genuine good team, not just as a national bully who cannot compete in Europe and therefore sort of devalue the league. but of course you want more competition internally the problem is none of them have really none of the people who've been talking about this in recent days have really put forward any clear solution there's talk from Vera Bremen president to say

maybe we need a salary cap but of course a national salary cap which hugely disadvantaged buy-in when they come then to challenging in Europe others are saying we need to redistribute the TV money more equitably, but to give you a bit of an idea of the TV money in Germany, it's not that big. It's not Premier League money. It's 60 million more or less for the winner. And 37 million, that's euros for the last team.

So if you take, let's say, 5 million or 10 million away from Bayern and give it to Heidenheim and so on, it would even things up a little bit, but is it enough for a team that turns over nearly a nearly a billion euros in case of bind, probably not. So in my view, and this is of course increasingly the bigger argument, the only thing that can really change German football structurally in the long run is if the 50 plus one rule that prohibits or prevents outside investment and means that the clubs are still run by the members will eventually fall and then suddenly I think you'll see the biggest economy in Europe,

who now plays almost with a one arm tied behind their back because they're limiting themselves in terms of the money that could come into the clubs. If they were to open that up, I think we'd see a very, very different Bundesliga. But the fans are adamant that they don't want it. And the clubs being controlled by the fans are in no position to change it. So I wonder if Guillem or Julien have maybe some ideas

how we can change that imbalance. Short of on pointing Thomas Tuchel, because he of course managed to finish third with Bayern, which was some feat. I just wonder if there is any lessons to be taken from the success of Leverkusen or Dorman through the years. So instead of just looking for money to change matters, if there is a coaching thing, a selection process thing, sharpening your own tools to actually get closer to Bayamune. but I know it has up and downs that you get it right, that structure, that process, and you can get close to it,

but then you start selling players and you have to start over again, which by the meaning cannot do, but it is a difficult situation, isn't it? European Super League Jules? That was for Guillaume. Very selfishly, I'm really enjoying buying. And I know they obviously walk in on the Bundesliga

and it's them and the rest, but they're a wonderful team to watch every weekend in the bonus league, whoever they face, they might go unbeaten. And obviously, Chabby Alonzo and By the Lover Cousin have done it before, but it would be special for them to do it. They could break every record that has been set individually, collectively, goals, assists, goals for Ken, assists for O'Lise, a man of points, a amount of goals scored, Rafi said,

if you score 130 goals in a season, they're already on 71 in 18 games. That's just in the league, by the way. Classic Jules. hate competition just wants one dominant team. No, I'm just saying. So are you. But no, because for us, we watch it in a different, I know we have to move on to something else,

but for us, we watch it differently than Rafi, obviously. For me, watching the Bundesliga and Dortmund and Levecoucun is great, but Bayern are incredible to watch. So I see probably differently than him. We're going to talk a little bit of IACs, PSV and FC Twentner now in the company of DeTelegraphs, Marcel van der Kran. Evening, Marcel. Evening, guys.

Thanks for having me on. Always a pleasure. Can we start actually by talking about Eric Tenhag, our old friend, because he next week starts his new job as technical director at FC Twente. So he starts as technical director on the 1st of February. When does he take over his manager? Well, that's a cheeky little thought of you, Steve. I'm convinced he will stay technical.

tactical director. He said he's been in many different roles. He's got his experience from Manchester United. I don't know whether that brings any good to Twentz or not, but he's already got people in mind. I think the current coach is not sure anymore of his job because the agent of the current coach, which is John Vanderbrun,

has said on Sunday in a television live program on the football show, oh, I think his days are numbered. I've heard Eric and I'll speak about the future. and my coach will not be there much longer. Well, and that was the first bomb that went off on the wings of Tenach at FC20 before he started. Rath, I don't know about you, but I just think technical director is a wonderful job title

because it means absolutely nothing. Why do you say that? It means a lot. But head of recruitment, we know what that means. Sporting director, we know what that means. Technical director could be absolutely anything. Well, it's a safe job, isn't it? And you know, it's funny.

Well, I mean, I don't know. Eric Tenhaag's got it, Marcel, so we'll see. I mean, if he can make it unsafe. Yes, yeah, that would be something in a near future to look at. But it's quite funny what I wanted to say about, you know, Raffa's view on Bayern Munich and everything else. There was only a few years ago when Eric Tenach left Ajax and he'd won a couple of trophies with,

And of course he'd done well, but with a golden generation. And everybody said, Ajax is now the Bayern Munich of the Netherlands. We will reign for the next two decades. And everybody was convinced that would happen. Well, and look what happened next. You never know. You never know.

Actually, as fascinating, I said it, the hack is, can we talk Ajax though? Oh, right, there we go. You're moving us on. Yes, no, I don't know. I mean, I find a man a little bit less interesting that you do, I think. It's a hostile takeover at the Euroleaks. Yeah, and presentation as well.

It's his show. No, don't worry about it. You put them in a studio and look what happens. Your days are numbers, Steve. Every time we talk to myself, we end up talking about Iax and it gets really upset because it really hurts him what has been happening with IyX. But George Creef was taking over as a sporting director. I don't know if Steve thinks that's a good job.

bad job or a good title or not. Well, at least we know what it means. A sporting director of Ajax. Has he been well received? Is there a clear plan ahead for him? Well, you know, the name of Ewan Kroiv, or the name of Kroiv in general, always is well received in the Netherlands,

in Amsterdam in particular. And of course, people have high expectations. Things couldn't have got any words over the last two years at Ayak. So people are happy. Has he got all the experience? I don't know. Has he got the network to bring in the new people, to bring in the new recruitment for finding brilliant players?

A lot of us say, and including me, look at your own academy. When things are at their worst, IAX have always come up with their own academy gems. Look at Sean Sturr. Maybe you've not heard of him yet. there's a lovely young 18-year-old Sean Sturb watch him over the next few years he could be one of those typical Iox players

and maybe those sort of players are more important than bringing people in from everywhere and why do I say this? I'm sure that Iyx will have a Catalan way a Spanish way in the next few months I can see a Spanish or Catalan coach coming in I can see more people coming on board

with Barcelona background You're taught us we're taking it back to you it's full circle I think Yordie will take things in his own hands strongly there is a vacuum at the moment the CEO of Ajax

Meno Galen has given him full control of anything in the technical department nobody else I think can really influence because he's quite independent, like his father always was. Guillaume, is it all right if I ask about Robin Van Percy? Is there anything else you want to do first?

No, that's fine. Go ahead. And actually, Jules, I'm going to ask you this first because I'm sure everybody is in the same boat here. Hearing about and seeing Robin Van Percy's son scoring great goals in the Dutch top flight, that is the oldest I've ever felt hearing that. And you know what?

I saw Shaquille being born and grew up here when Robin was at Arsenal with Bushra and the whole family. Were you in the room? No, I was not. I saw him for the first time. He was tiny. That's what I meant. So I feel even more old, my friend, than you. But there's something special, I think, and something that could go against you very much when you're a coach and you play your kids.

Okay, Claude Puell is not Robin von Percy. His children, his two boys were not. not as good as Shaquille is. But he, that nepotism in a way, suddenly happened in the Piel family. In this case, Marcel, correct me, it feels like Shaquille is good enough anyway to play.

He came on tonight in the Europa League and gave an assist. But it's quite a thin line, isn't it, when you play your own children for your team at that kind of level. But it must be also wonderful for Robin and for the whole Van Persie family to see that Shaquil can reach that level

and already so promising at that age. But I think it's a double, it's kind of double impact, doesn't it? What happened last Sunday when he made his official debut given by his dad was actually something pure, extreme in football, what I've seen. Robin Van Persie had not had a lot of great results lately.

He had an injury, absolute injury crisis over the last eight weeks. it led to unrest among the fans, people questioning his managerial qualities, and the stadium was quiet, there was some banners up, and then in a game which they haven't lost, for the last 26 years in the Derby against Sparta, Rotterdam,

they went 3-1 behind. And at 3-1 behind, with the crowd having a go at Robin and at the board, a little bit like the Tottenham-Hotspur atmosphere in London he brings on his son

and you could hear everybody in the stadium thinking my God can a 19-year-old boy, the son of the manager can he save us right now? Is that the right thing to do? Things could go even worse

and what happens in the last 10 minutes of the game that boy scored to absolute brilliant goals very, very much. much with the signature of his dad, one back heel behind the standing leg to fob everybody of in the goal mouth, the goalkeeper two defenders, and the other one, an overhead bicycle kick from a chip from one of the midfielder's.

And it was 3-3. The stadium absolutely erupted. And yes, that was a beautiful moment of the purity of football. a team struggling and then a young kid who's really got all the technique of the skills which is that used to have does something like that. Is that a guarantee for the future?

I don't know. But it's a great start. What sort of situations have Percy in then at the moment? Because what you don't want to do is relying on your own kid to sort of effectively end up saving you your job. But he's had this massive row with Kint and Timber, the twin brother of Yuri and Timber. He's now going off to Marseilles.

stripped him of the captaincy at the start of the season. It doesn't sound you can't lose to Sparta either, can you? So there's a lot going on there. Well, this was probably the most hectic week in his very early stages of his career as a manager. I've rarely seen something like that, either between a manager and a player who were confronting each other after the game in the dressing room, he put Quint and Timber on the bench. Now, when we see what happened the next day, we can see what Robin was doing. He knew the player was going.

He knew that the agents were preparing the exit of Quint and Timber. And they already tried to do that in the summer. In the summer, everybody was convinced the player was going. The agents were talking to different or various foreign clubs. And that was the reason for Robin to give the captaincy armband, which Quint and Timber had been wearing to another player and that went down really well

that started to put an atmosphere on and you know when you do that when you take the captaincy away from one of your most experienced players who's also playing for the Netherlands sometimes you need to win games and when he had the injury crisis everybody jumped on him

right now tonight's game where I've just come back in from was a great result for Robin a 3-0 win can they go on in Europe? I don't know. They're only got a small, very, there's a very small chance for him to go through,

but they're still second in the league. He's two points ahead of Ajax, they're big rivals, and he's got everything to play for this season. Marcel, lovely to have you on as always. Thank you very much. Marcel van der Kran from DeTelegraph with us there on the EuroLeaks.

Jules, Raff, thank you very much. Lovely stuff as always. Thank you. Thank you, Guillme, for presenting the show as well. Really well done. Yeah, no, you did a very good job. job, Guillem. Maybe that's it for me. Okay, you heard about it then?

What did you mean? Heard about what? Well, finish the pot and I'll tell you about it. Oh, no. Sounds terrible. Well, you can listen to Guillem's interview with Roberto Deserby is an excellent interviewer. So good, actually, I think you should focus on that and forget about presenting. That's on the Football Daily this Saturday, so you'll be able to find that.

And as always, thank you so much for listening. Super Bowl 59. Five lives for NFL. Listen on BBC Sounds. Ever feel like car shopping is designed to make you second-guess yourself? Is this a good price? Am I making the right choice? With car gurus, you don't have to wonder.

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