Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Chris Waddle on his Marseille career

Episode Date: May 10, 2020

Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Balague and Kristof Terreur on this week's Euro Leagues show.The team bring us the latest on the return of the Bundesliga and leagues across Europe.Plus Chris Waddle reminisces about his Marseille career and the time he aimed for France and ended up on an island in the Indian Ocean...And Nayim remembers THAT goal against Arsenal in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup Final.

Hello there, welcome to the Euroleagues on the Football Daily Podcast with me, Steve Crossman. With me, as always, is Guillaume Balaguet. Hi, Guillaume. Afternoon, Steve. How are you? Not too bad at all. I've got a brand spanking new lockdown haircut, but it isn't as drastic as the word. No, but I like yours a lot. You've gone all off, haven't you? No, you've got a you've got a style to your haircut. I don't know who's done it. I think you've been to a shop to do this. That's my wife, I promise. Well done. Well done. But it is it is an exciting week isn't it? It feels a little bit

intriguing as well as exciting that we're getting closer and closer to the possibility of playing football again we heard the president of Lyon saying the 7th of August and I think tonight on television, in a television show, we'll hear the calendar of La Liga, so

we are at that point where haircuts and things like that become less important. It's more about which is the first game that's going to be played either in the Bundesliga or La Liga. Yeah, that's a very good point. Once you get down to the haircut level,

you know that there isn't enough football to talk about. So coming up today, as well as that, we've been doing these on this day features. This week, we've got another belter. And thanks to you, I should say, as well as that. We've been doing these on this day features. This week, we've got another belter. And thanks to you,

I should say as well. Yes. Picture this. Paris, Cup Winners Cup Final, 10th of May, 95, minute 119 and 40 seconds. The score is 1-1,

so the game is about to finish and something happened. It's the last move of the final. So we are talking today to one of the two protagonists, either David Seaman or Naeem. But I'll give you a clue. You don't ring a goalie to talk about a goal conceded in the last second. Very good point. And a very big clue.

Naeem of Naeem from the halfway line is going to be with us live on the program with guillem and i is christophe to hello christophe hello steve how are you guys yeah good all right how are you yeah yeah i'm fine my hair starts looking like uh the haircut of david seaman to be fair or james hall and castell it depends on you you prefer but the rest is fine we don't see you in Zoom because we just learned that you only have one phone, you don't have an iPad you only function what sort of journalist only has one phone?

I function, I do everything on my phone at once so I can do, but you can't do two lines at once, so yeah that's the problem, but yeah I have my phone everywhere it's just glued to my so yeah that's that's the problem but yeah i only have my i have my phone everywhere it's just glued to my hand so yeah that's basically it but i don't have my ipad with me because i left it in london so uh when i fled to belgium that's a shame you're you're missing

out massively christoph because through not being on zoom what you can't see is what are you wearing Guillaume? I'm wearing do you know when I want to look I'm a chairman of a football club I haven't mentioned that enough times Biggles for United and when I want to look like I'm at the level of the coaches I wear this thing which is a training kit with the Biggles of United crest in the middle, GB for Guillem Balague. Thank you. And so I wear it when I go and see them train and then, you know, I feel like I can talk at their level. If I have to be a chairman, then I wear completely different clothes.

But today's a good day and I just felt like, yeah, wearing this. Let's start with Dynamo Dresden. So for those that don't know they're a second tier club in germany and last night they announced that two of their players had tested positive for coronavirus the difference between that and the brighton story from this morning is that because football is coming back next week in germany the dresden players unlike the brighton players were back to pretty much full training and full contact training.

So even one positive test would mean that the entire squad has to go into isolation and obviously will not be able to play their opening fixture in the resumption of the season. But what I don't think that means, Guillaume, is that, and I've seen this in a couple of places, the idea that what's happened with Dresden, in inverted commas, throws into doubt the resumption of the German season. It actually doesn't. Maybe if this happened in two weeks' time, it would do. No, but it's complicated. And I think we need to put it all in context. The protocol in Germany and Spain actually is exactly the same. And it goes like this in terms of the testing. Before individual training, which is the situation that we've seen in Spain this week,

two tests, the PCR test, which is the one with the swab in the nose and the back of the throat that identifies the virus in the body, and a serological test, also called antibody test, is a blood test and looks if the person has developed antibodies in response to the virus, which means that they've been exposed to it, but it's cured or about to be cured. When individual training starts, there are new serological tests and regular PCR tests. If you show to be positive at that point, as it has happened with five players in Spain, you isolate at home.

Then before collective training, one more antibody test. Then one more antibody test, again, a more regular PCR test before the start of the competition. And in this third wave of tests is where the two Dresden players have been found to be positive. Now, this is important. In Spain, if that happens, because the main authority is the National Ministry of Health, if you found a player to be positive, you will have to isolate the player and also those in contact with the player. They will be tested. And after a couple of days, when they get the results, the ones that cleared, join training. In Germany, where the local

government have got the power of decision on these matters, and there isn't really a united nationwide answer to these situations, they have decided in Dresden, the local government in Dresden, to ask the whole team and coaching staff to go in isolation. Now, the Bundesliga will decide now

if they're going to move to a bit later, the start of the season, Dresden are in the second division, or exactly what. This is not dangerous. This is actually when you filter those that are positive. In the case of Dresden, in the five cases that we've seen in Spain, they are at the end of their coronavirus illness, if you like.

That's fine. You can find them here. The problem is, and the main danger are not these cases. The main danger is actually if the players don't accept to be isolated for the whole of the competition for five weeks or so. And at the moment, nobody's accepting that. If a positive happens while the competition is on, once it has started. And I've asked in Germany, I've asked in spain what happens if a positive comes when the competition has started and nobody's got an answer because then yes i think it means a collapse of the of the plan well i was going to say christoph perhaps the reason that

nobody has an answer is because everybody knows the answer it doesn't matter what league it's in does it if we were to get to get a week into the season, because players clearly won't be social distancing when they play, if any player then gets it, that immediately knocks everything down, surely. Yeah, we've seen what happened in Italy, for instance, when Rugiani of Juventus had a positive test. Suddenly all games are gone. So then you start a whole process over and over again

of putting teams into quarantine and stuff like that. So it's complicated. I've even read the protocol for the Premier League, the doctor's protocol. It's basically the same as what Guillaume just said. Yeah, but they will have to see what happens. Nobody can predict what's going to happen. And I know that some players are fearful

for what if an opponent has it or what if... I mean, some players are really afraid of what's going to happen and they will have to sign documents and nobody knows whose liability it is and stuff like that. So it's a really tricky situation, I think. We don't have it here in Belgium because our league has been abandoned. We don't have those discussions anymore.

But I follow those closely in Italy, those in England too, those in Spain too, where all the players have done their tests. And I heard it's quite painful to go on a test i don't know if any listeners or if one of you guys have already had a corona test but they're all saying it's really painful too and they have to do it regularly twice a week they're not all looking forward even going back to training individually at this point so maybe it will have an effect of motivation too. Will they still be motivated with everything going around to play football? Of course they want to play football, but still in the back of their minds,

there's the family, there's the pregnant wife at home, who is probably a risk factor. There was a Belgian player last week, Birgit Verstraeten of Korn, who said some not naughty things in an interview, but he said, I'm really worried. Why are we playing football?

My girlfriend is a heart patient. She is at risk and we have three positive cases at our club. Am I now at danger? Is my girlfriend at danger? So that's a question that players are asking right

now and they don't really know what's happening too because it's all decided above their heads La Liga would like the players to be isolated two weeks before the start of the season perhaps the 19th or 20th of June two weeks before but that's not enough because once you start competing they're actually saying that you can then go home, then go to training, home again, and then to the games. That's where you can catch it. So ideally in the eyes of La Liga, they're saying two weeks before the start of the

restart, and then the five weeks of the competition. And the players are saying no way we're going to do that. In fact, the players' union are actually saying this is anti-constitutional. You're actually locking people down when they don't want to be. That is the key of the matter.

And for instance, in Italy, they are thinking of trying to convince the players that that's the only solution, to actually put them in a place where they will be, yes, isolated and healthy. Those that go through all the filters, the three waves of tests, lock themselves in a place, they play, and then they go on holidays five weeks later. Nobody has agreed on that yet, but it's the only way I can see this happening.

And when we are hearing in the Premier League the discussions about, of course, it has to start here. How are we going to play this? And there are six or seven clubs that are saying, well, we don't want to play for whatever reasons, neutral ground or whatever excuse they put it in. There are other hurdles that have to be beaten

before actually playing, including asking the Premier League players to be locked down somewhere. It is very difficult. And you look at the hundred questions that the doctors have put to the premier league a bunch of them are long and i've seen the questions a bunch of them they don't have answers because simply we don't know and as christoph is saying and this is this is again fascinating and has got legal repercussions doctors and players have been

asked to fill documents kind of contracts in which they say there is no risk zero. And kind of clubs and leagues are cleaning their hands and saying, is your responsibility almost to play? And of course, again, the players' union are saying, what are you asking us here? If something happens, who is responsible? Which is one of the questions of the English doctors to the Premier League. Is it the Premier League or the doctors who are responsible?

No answer yet. So it is hard, but I think, I don't know if you agree with me, both of you, Christopher and Steve, we have to try. Because by the way, it's not just a massive industry. In the case of Spain, 185,000 people work directly and indirectly on football. But if you don't start, if you don't play now, the conditions won't change in six months' time or even perhaps a year's time.

So are we saying that if we're not playing now, we're not playing again until we've got a vaccine? I think we have to give steps towards it. What do you think? At a certain point, I read a draft of the guideline that was going to be sent to the Premier League players. And I think some of them might. The first line was, you can't start training if you don't sign the documents about the COVID-19 policy of your club and of the league.

So there you go. If I was a player, I would say, I go back to my lawyer and ask him, can I sign these documents? No. Am I responsible for my own body while they want to play and I don't want to play because I think my health is at stake.

So do I have to sign it? No. And we'll have to see what happens with that because in England, we've already felt, for instance, that the players' union is quite strong on it. Like the players, it was with the wage deferrals, they went strong in it.

Not a lot has happened. And I think it might go the same way for those kind of documents and the health insurance and stuff like that. Chris Waddle is with us afternoon Chris good afternoon it feels like it's been ages since I spoke to you

how are you? yeah I'm good like everybody else bored out my head most days but yeah you just get on with it and abide the rules and you know it's a cliche

stay safe so that's what we're trying to do. We've basically got you on because normally we speak to you about your old clubs. We might talk to you about the prospective takeover at Newcastle and what Tottenham are getting on with. But I can say from personal experience that you had some incredible times during your three league titles with Marseille and one European Cup final as well I should say so I mean I almost just want you to kind of take the lead here Chris

because there are many and I've heard many of them what is the the stand out the stand out memory that you have from your time in France? Oh, so many. Honestly, it was incredible. I mean, it came out the blow of the move. And actually, when it all settled down and actually arrived, everybody said, you know, very expensive, four and a half million. When you get to the airport, it'll be unbelievable. There'll be so many people waiting to greet you and meet you and say hello so I was all excited I got off the plane went to the

passport control and then went went nobody around went to pick my baggage up still nobody around and all of a sudden the gates open and these people all ran in journalists obviously and tv anyway none of them could speak English hardly and I could not speak French. I could count to 10 and that was the best I could offer. So then eventually one of them come to the front, stuck a mic in my face and said, are you looking forward to playing at the Velodrome? And I said, yes, obviously I knew that was the ground and looking forward to it. I knew it was a cracking atmosphere there. So I was really looking forward to it. And then he said, what song are you going to start with? So I threw his back a bit, and I'm thinking,

has Diamond Lights come out in France? Glenn was playing up the road at Monaco. I thought, has he done a sneak in, released it out here? I thought, you know, you've said the wrong question. And eventually he said, well, you are the lead singer out of Pink Floyd,

who were actually playing in the Velodrome that night. So it didn't do me confidence any good, put it that way. You do look like him a little bit. So, yeah, it was, you know, and after that, it was a matter of getting fit. I was a month behind everybody and it was a slog, you know, the runners through the day

and it was red hot. And, you know, after a couple of weeks, I remember I sat down in the house and in the hotel I was staying at and I just thought what have I done you know

what have I done I was so far behind the league started on the Friday night they made a sub and I eventually came on for somebody at half time

we were 4-0 up at Lyon and I actually ended up wearing the captain's armband because Jean-Pierre Papin pulled his armstring went off and they tied the armband around me and I couldn't speak a word of French and I actually ended up wearing the captain's armband because Jean-Pierre Papin pulled his armstring, went off and they tied the armband round me.

I couldn't speak a word of French. And I thought, what am I doing here? It was like one of those moments when you stand in the middle of the pitch and you think, what am I doing here? I can't speak French. I'm captain of the team. And it was just totally bizarre.

The first three months was an absolute nightmare, I've got to say. Chris, I've read loads of wonderful stories about your president at the time, Bernard Tapie, and his influence. How was he towards the group? Because he was a very influential man. I remember a story

that Raymond Houtel, your former manager, I think, has told several times before in Belgium, is that he came into the dressing room, said these are the tactics today, and that he came into the dressing room, said, these are the tactics today, and then he said, you're going to play like this, you're going to play like that.

Was it really like that, that he tried to influence everything in the club, that he was the boss and wants to get involved in everything? Yeah, he was the boss, completely, 100%. I had a lot of time for him. Because I like people who speak their mind and he definitely did that. And yes, many times the coach would get the sheet out, the big sheet, put the team on,

pointing arrows here and putting the pen going here and you do this and he's going there and you're doing this. And sometimes it would take 20 minutes, half an hour. And eventually the last, most of this was about the opposition. And then obviously he said, we know our jobs and whatever. And then as it finished, Bernard Tappi would stand up and say to the coach,

are you finished? And he'd say, yeah. And he'd just go over, pick their team sheep up, rip it off the board and rip it into bits and say, there's not one of them players would get in our team. So if you don't win, trouble. And that was it. That was simple. I i thought what a great team talk that is and uh to me you know all these tactics about yeah you know and this is there and that's this

and this is that and you got to defend like this and do that and do this and do that and basically we just went out and played we had a tremendous team i mean unbelievable players and we just went out and played and he wanted to entertain Van Aertap, he wanted the team to really have that class where people watched and thought wow factor and obviously the main thing was to win and in France

we all know that politics is quite involved with the football clubs as much as it is in the political world so it was doing him good as well when we were winning every week. I think he became Mair Marseille. And, yeah, but he was very direct.

Players were very weary and very frightened. I had a few run-ins with him. And he always said, it was Chris, I like to argue, but there's always going to be one winner, and you know that is. So I never had a chance of winning. I'll tell you a good story. Once when we used to finish the games and come in and obviously France a different culture to the English way of football

and you know in England we used to go in the players lounge have a couple of beers a bit chat relax and whatever so I used to come to change room at Marseille and I used to go at the bottom and we had a big bath later jacuzzi we had four or five showers and so we used to come in here and every time we used to go to the fridge it was just full and uh so we used to come in here and every time we used to go to the fridge and it was just full of water and i just think i don't know how much water you can actually drink um it's just ridiculous um you know it was just coming out my ears and um so i just thought and i said to him i says look boss this is any chance you can just put some beer in that fridge one day just for a change change. And he was like, no, no, no, we're professional, we do this and that.

I said, just please, just one game, just fill that fridge up with beer. Oh, Guinness. And anyway, it went on. And anyway, one day we finished the game, came in. We won six hearts, 7-0. Anyway, he came in and he said, we're going down to the bath, the showers. And he went, Chris, the fridge is yours today. So I thought, what?

Anyway, I got down there, opened it up, and it was full of lagers and Guinness. But the players, even when he came down to check we're drinking, the players, obviously the French players, were very weary of him and were hiding the bottles under water so he couldn't see them. So they were all scared of him in a way. But, yeah, I really enjoyed his work they were all scared of him in a way. But yeah, I really enjoyed his work and his company. And he was a winner.

And we all know what seemed to happen with the club. But them three years were just magnificent. Chris, you said it in passing, but I think you were the first Galacticos. And Bernard Tapie was the first Florentino Perez, if you like. because you played with, correct me if I'm wrong, some of these names, Enzo Francescoli, who people may not know, but he's Zinedine Zidane's big hero and a fantastic player. Deschamps, Tiganat, Amoros, Roche, Mosa, Papin, Cantona. So tell us about what it was like to play with so much quality,

picked the best round Marseille did at that time. Yeah, as you say, the players we had. I mean, Enzo Francescoli was South American footballer of the year and he was playing in Paris, not for Paris Saint-Germain. He was playing a race in Paris

and he came to, it was sort of a deal where he wanted more goals. The club needed, Papam was obviously banging them in a lot. Me, Abid and Pellier were getting a few, but not probably, we needed a second striker Roedd yn ymwneud â'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o'r rhan o we'd had a settled team we had a set in the system and Enzo was that second striker but we didn't really have a play with two up front it was like a 4-3-3

we mixed it sometimes with three at the back but yeah Enzo a tremendous player great lad but he found it difficult and at the end of the season

he'd been attacked he thought he hadn't scored enough goals and decided to get rid of him but yeah Eric was a player who was on loan

when I got to the club when I was saying he'd gone on loan when I got to the club. When I signed, he'd gone on loan. He'd had a problem with the fans about he got sent off and he took his shirt and threw his shirt away, which you can't do. And obviously the respect for the shirt sort of went out the window. So the fans turned on him. So they loaned him out and he had a good year at Montpellier. And they brought him back.

And he was playing well. Franz Beckenbauer was the coach then and he was playing well and then he did his medial ligament in his knee I think and he was out for four or five weeks

by that time we changed it Abidi Peli had come in and we started playing this three up front type thing and Eric couldn't get back in and Eric didn't want

to wait around so he decided to ask for a move and he went for a transfer to Neame I think for a million where he got sent off and banned from football

and that's how he ended up in England and became a legend at Man United. But Eric was just a lad who'd come in and said hello to you. He came in on Harley Davidson, which he wasn't allowed to, but he did. He came in. He sort of had his own rules. But he trained well. He was a very good pro. Very quiet.

He used to come in and say hello and whatever. But I always thought there was a little bit of friction between him and Jean-Pierre Papin. And, you know, there was something not right somehow. And when he came back to the team, obviously when we got the semi-final in Moscow and in the Champions League, when we beat Moscow first leg away,

three, I think. And we used to bring one chef. We were always weary of people, food poisoning and all this. So we had one chef who would travel to it. And we had little sachets of salad dressing. And then we started with a salad. And Jean-Pierre liked a practical joke. And he put a fork in this salad thing and trying to think,

because I was sat next to him, he thought if he squeezed his sachet onto the salad, it would come all over me and unfortunately it went the wrong direction and unfortunately it hit in a machine gun Derek Cantona

from his face to his basically to his belly button and his top and his tracksuit top and it was like a machine gun effect

and I couldn't stop laughing and everybody just went quiet because we thought it was like one of them westerns when they turn in the street and they're looking at each other

and everything thinks wow something's going to happen and we all thought this is it this is Eric's going to go for

Jean-Pierre and he just stood up and looked and we all thought I couldn't stop laughing

and he just looked at me and said you're a fool and he looked at Jean-Pierre and he said you want to grow up

and just walked off to his room so we were expecting this is it this is going to be it but it never happened but now Eric was

quite quiet and I got on alright with him never had a problem with him at all and Do you know that at your time there Bernardo Tapia tried to sign

the best player in the world at the time and offered him everything he could possibly want now and ever. He offered him that much. There was Diego Armando Maradona. You almost played with him. Wow.

Yeah, well, that would have been another sort of excitement because, I mean, Marseille was just like, you know, most of the French team, Carlos Mouzé, the back Brazilian, absolutely best centre-half I've ever played with in my life. We had people like Basil Bulli and the French lads, Deschamps, who was doing a great job managing France.

We had Amoros. We had so many internationals. It was like that type of team. You could see at that time, being a tap, you had something about them. You thought, I want to get the best team. You wanted to win everything. I could see him going for Maradona, yeah, definitely.

You mentioned Basil Bolli there, Chris. We've got something to play for you. Before we do, can you guess what it's going to be? Yeah, that song I did with him, innit? Here we go. I kicked a punch, my rubber balls With great emotions, I recall We've got a thing Oh, it's so good. I kicked a punch, my rubber balls with great emotions. I recall.

We've got a thing. Oh, it's so good. Guillaume, were you aware of this? Yes, I heard it. But if you give this song to David Guetta, one of the top DJs, he could do a lot with it. What do you think?

It does need a lot a lot with it. Don't you think? He could. Well, it's nice. It does need a lot to do with it, doesn't it? It does need a lot of work on it. But, you know, that was Basil's idea, by the way. It's nothing to do with me, this. Right. Basil kept saying to me, his friends in Paris were, he knew record producers and all these people who he knew.

Basil seemed to know all of France. And he said, would you fancy doing this song? It'll come down to Marseille and we can do it in a day, so we had like Sunday off and Monday off and we did it in two days and we did this video, lucky enough he didn't play that and I'm glad we're on the radio and they said

you know, we picture you as an English gentleman, so I had to dress up in a suit and a bowler hat and an umbrella and I look like John Steed out of The Avengers. Yes, you did, yeah. So I said, what is this all about? He went, well, that's how an Englishman... I said, no, we don't.

I said, yeah, maybe many years ago people used to walk around like this, but not now. But they wouldn't have it and I had to wear this bowler hat. And I don't know what happened to it. Jokingly once, I did say it got to number 2 on the Albanian charts and everybody believed it so I don't even know if Albania had a chart

so you won the charts twice I was in the French charts somewhere yeah I got to top 20 and then we did a follow up which people probably know about me and Glenn we did a follow-up which people probably know about

me and Glenn we did a follow-up called Goodbye which was quite fitting because Glenn left to go to Monaco the next day yeah so yeah

and then obviously we had World in Motion 1990 which got number one yeah I've enjoyed you get a lot of stick and quite a lot of stick in fact

did you? yeah I get a stick about day but I still know and that was 1987 Did you? Yeah, I get a stick about Damel 8 still now, and that was 1987. And obviously the French sometimes I get on social media, they'll put the video on of me and Basil, and that was 1991 or whatever.

So people just don't let things lie, do they? Do you still speak to Basil Bollie and the first thing that comes up in conversation? Well, definitely not that song comes up and all that. It's one of them when, you know, in the football world, it's when you bump into ex-players and players you've played with and that you can sit and talk all day. But when they're in a different part of the country, even in England,

when you're playing for an English team, players get transferred and whatever, you keep in touch. But if you bump into them, you can actually talk to them all day and you tend to find a lot of players keep in touch you know a bit but if you bump into them

yes that's when you can sit and talk all day about your memories and what's happening and everything what goes on in the football world It's logically

that something like that happens up in Marseille because your your manager at that time in 91 had the nickname Elvis, I think. I don't know who gave him that nickname.

Sorry, that was me again. Raymond Guthrie, looking back, he was a great manager. He was very simple. He came on the pitch and he used to talk. The training was very much about He came on the pitch and he used to talk. Basically, the training was very much about possession and high tempo. We never worked on a system. I can never remember putting a team out in a formation.

Set pieces, it was like, Chris, you take the corners. The French players didn't really like taking corners off through wins. They hated it. In England, it was a massive part of the game because we scored a lot on set pieces and I was brought up on that. So, you know, it would be like,

oh, you take the corners and that and basically have a chat with the lads and, you know, I used to say to Basil, you make a run at the near post, I'll try and hit it into there. So we basically organised our run. They used to go through,

obviously, the opposition a little bit, obviously. But it was all about how we played and even if it was a small system, we could adapt. It was three at the back, 4-5-1, 4-3-3 all about how we played and even though it was my system we could adapt it was three at the back four five one four three three whatever system we played um i'd say it was surprising i mean obviously you follow the spanish football you know over the years and i remember playing around my time playing for marseille uh you know and i looked at the quarter finals it was ac milan and it was one year it was was Benfica, it was Moscow in the semis,

it was Red Star, Belgrade in the final. You know, the teams we were playing, and I cannot even remember Barcelona or Real Madrid ever being in the competition. No, because at the middle of the 80s and end of the 80s, it was the best players who were the good players at the time, and it was a bad Real Madrid and a bad Barcelona until the

beginning of the 90s when Johan Cruyff came in but people may have banter about you singing and songs but I think we have to clap you because you Glenn Hoddle going to Monaco, Mark Hughes to Barcelona, Des Wolcott to Sampdoria, John Toshack coach of Real Madrid there was a bunch of British people that actually left England at the time and succeeded. It was not just passing by. John Toshack made a huge impact. So did you. You were considered, you could have been, if Papen wasn't there,

you could have been voted the best European player of the year. So it is something that wasn't done, but you did it. Perhaps you didn't get so much recognition for the work, the play that you had in europe when you came back into into england you think i think the problem was was when i went the english clubs were banned from europe and um so to see french football in england was wasn't uh you know it wasn't sort of on the tvs a lot it wasn't it's hard to get footage of yeah you could read about how you're doing and whatever but there wasn't enough coverage like it is today

where you can get any league in the world. It wasn't going round as much. The Italian league was obviously the biggest league at the time. It was just starting to come away. The AC Milan team were getting a little bit old. And, you know, Marseille were sort of the new kids on the block. And we sort of got this number one rating in Europe for two or three years that we were the best team in Europe.

But unfortunately in England, because English clubs were banned from Europe, they never really bought into watching the leagues in Europe. So when I came back, yeah, all the recognition you sort of get and people are saying, oh, he's come to Marseille. But a lot of people knew Marseille because, obviously, winning the league three years, running and doing well, everybody sort of heard of Marseille,, obviously, winning the league three years, running and doing well. Everybody sort of heard of Marseille, but they didn't really see enough coverage.

So it was hard. Yeah, so if it had been sort of four or five years later, it would have been different, I think. But I think it was very difficult at the time for the French league to be covered as well as it is today. Or at the time the Italian league was. I remember being with you, Chris, in Marseille at Euro 2016 and it was around the time when obviously there'd been quite a lot of trouble between England fans and Russia fans and we were out one night having a bit of dinner and a guy came over to the table and it was his bar and he quite clearly had made the decision

because of everything that had happened that he didn't want to serve English people and he sort of came up with a frown on his face and then he saw you and he sort of paused and took a breath and went magic Chris magic Chris and that was it that we were there all night we could have had whatever we wanted that it is amazing and I mean actually it's not just Marseille everywhere you you go in France, you get it, don't you? Yeah, the thing, what happened for me was, listen, I love playing there. And it was, wherever I played, it was, you know, I just played with a smile on my face.

I was playing in a wonderful team who got the ball to us. I was allowed to express myself. I was allowed to basically play to my strengths. And so wherever I went, you know, fans turned up and obviously to see Marseille. But I just played with a smile on my face. And I just, you know, if there was an injury in the game or there was something happening where there was a break in the game,

I'd go up to the stage and start saying autographs and just doing things just to communicate with them. You know, the French were quite reserved. And I just played with a smile on my face and really enjoyed it and so wherever I went I was getting a great response and sometimes you know the this the national team players I you know your papas and all these they were getting booed in Histon and I used to think I don't get this I'm English and I'm going away to play in you know in Strasbourg or wherever and I'm getting standing in the variations and they're getting booed I just couldn't work it out.

But that was it. I just thought, enjoy it. I was enjoying it. And I've always said football is an entertainment. People pay a lot of money, and you have your defenders, your hard players, your grafters, your passers. And if you've got that ability to entertain, do it. I was going to ask you, Steve and Christoph, can you imagine Waddle and Hoddle playing now?

What superstars they would be. They would be the superstars of Twitter because they can clip the magic stuff that they used to do. By the way, apparently you did something magical against PSG that changed the perception because you said when you came in you weren't fit because you didn't do pre-season properly. But then you did something against PSG that changed all the perception about you. Remember, of course, you were.

Yeah, that happened because I'd been living in a hotel, catching fitness up. I've got to say, you know, I was fed up, very fed up. And anyway, I rented a house and I got in the house on the Monday. Me and my wife and my daughter, who was one. And it was great to get out of the hotel where we were staying and have a bit of freedom. And I got in the house and I thought, right, and I said, this is it. It starts from now.

If it doesn't work the way Bernard Tappi reacted to players, I thought he would probably get rid of us at the end of the season. So I thought, right, this is it. This is it. We're going to have a good go at it. And it starts from now. That was of the season. So I thought, right, this is it. This is it. We're going to have a good go at it. And it starts from now. That was on the Monday. And obviously I knew the rivalry between Paris and Marseille.

You know, it is like, even though it's not a derby, they're not local to each other, but it is a derby, massive game. I just thought, right, go and play. I said from Monday it starts. This is my Marseille career from Monday. And that Friday I scored that goal. And I get it over Joel Batt's head and then obviously chest it and flick it over his head and backheel it into the goal.

And from there, that was the moment what changed everything about, you know, me all the weight that dropped off my shoulders. And I just thought, this is it. This is it from now on. This is it. I've got the confidence. I've got the fitness. I've got the fitness. I'm ready to go.

And that was the game what changed my career, definitely, at Marseille. I have to ask you, Chris, about a story that you told, I think, at that dinner table in Marseille, actually. And I don't want to kind of give it away, so I'll just try and tee you up as much as I can. Can you tell us about the time when you may have got on the wrong plane oh yeah yeah definitely haven't we all done that not like this well what happened was obviously I came back I was playing here Sheffield Wednesday then I retired

sort of packed in I was playing non-league football and and I got a call from Marseille and they said um they were really quick on the phone and I got a call from Marseille and they said they were really quick on the phone and I can understand a bit of French obviously I prefer face to face but on the phone it always sounds wow you know I'm not getting this and all I kept getting was you know Chris we're looking forward to would you be interested in coming to a reunion and I kept getting was this reunion and I'm thinking yeah it'd be great brilliant so I asked a friend of mine said do you want to come with us we're going to Marseille for the weekend. And then they said, right, we've got your flight to Paris.

And I thought, what's a flight to Paris for? And I thought, I know, we'll all be meeting up in Paris, all the lads, and we fly into Marseille all together, be a coach ready to pick you up, and it'll be great. So I get to the airport, I've got basically a little bag for two nights. My friend's there, obviously the weekend weekend he's got to go work Monday this was the Friday night

we get there and all of a sudden all the players it was about well most of the players were ex-players and so I thought right

and I start going through the terminal didn't look at anything got on his plane I'm thinking wow we've got on a jumbo jet a jumbo jet to Marseille

I'm thinking it's only an hour flight and my mate's going my mate's going wow what we're getting on a jumbo jet for I don don't know i said i ain't a clue i don't know i just don't understand anyway anyway we get on the flight and then they give it all the thing i'm thinking right we take off and after about i don't know an hour an hour and a half they start bringing food around and i'm thinking you can't get food in our flight to marseille so anyway i

grab hold of the eventually I grab my mates going, what's happening here? I don't know. So I grab hold of the cabin crew and I said, excuse me, I says, where, why are we on a jumbo jet and why are you getting food out? And they said, well, it's a long flight. I went, what did Marseille? And they went, no, to Reunion Island.

So I went, where? And they went to Reunion Island. So, I went, where? And they went, Reunion Island, I'd never even heard of it. And then I said, where's that? They went,

it'll take about 30 hours. I went, what? So, I've only got this little bag and he may as well go to work Monday and I didn't know the trip was 10 days. So,

we get there, three o'clock in the morning, eventually, and there's fans waiting there and they're not forward clapping and cheering. And I'm thinking, I had to wear a training kit for 10 days. So we get there at three o'clock in the morning eventually and there's fans waiting there, not for clapping and cheering. And I'm thinking, I had to wear a training kit for 10 days. And we played three games.

It was a great trip. But when you ring your missus and say, I'm not in Marseille, I'm actually in Reunion Island. Yeah, so I got the wrong end of the stick on that one, definitely. Oh, that's one of my favourites. That's one of my favourites, Christophe. Yeah, I knew where he was going when he mentioned the reunion. Then I knew where he was going. Yeah, yeah.

We've just had a text asking, can you ask Chris about an amazing chipped goal he scored for Marseille? Is that enough for you? Edge of the box, absolute class, it says. I think that was against Metz, I think. I went to shoot my left, obviously, because everybody thought my strongest foot was left. So I went to shoot towards the edge of the box

and obviously they all ran out the block and jumped and I come on my right and I just clipped it, I think. I think that's the goal he's on about to the far post, y llawr. Yn amlwg, roedd yna'r holl blwch wedi cael ei ddod o'r blwch ac wedi cymryd. Dwi wedi dod ar fy rhai ac wedi clipio'r llawr. Dwi'n meddwl mai dyna'r gol y mae'n ei ddod o'r llawr i'r ffwrdd fawr, a ddod o'r llawr i lawr o'r croes. Roeddwn i'n ffodus bod y golau a wnes i eu gofyn yn Marseil, yn ddynol iawn. Roedd yna lawer o gosodau ariannol, ond roedd llawer ohonynt fel golau lle byddai pobl yn mynd, free kicks, but a lot of them were goals where people would go, wow. So a lot of the goals people saw score were sort of goals from outside the box. Were you living in the wrong era, though? Were you, when you were coming to England, especially under Graham Taylor,

were you recognised as the talent that you were, or was football in a different place? I think playing for Marseille, actually, last year Tottenham was, I loved playing for Tottenham at the time, you know, four good years at Tottenham, but the last year with Teddy Venables,

he sort of gave us a license to go and play, and late Marseille did in a way. So that last year at Tottenham was something where I thought, this is how, you know, I've always been thinking, how do you get the best out of your players? But the national team, you know, under Bobby Robson,. How do you get the best out of your players? But the national team,

you know, under Bobby Robson and even before that was always rigid 4-4-2. We had so many talented footballers, but they couldn't get a permanent shirt in the team because of, they didn't work hard enough. They were lazy type players or luxury type players where if, you know, if we'd been French, Italian,

Spanish, you know, other countries, you know, people used to rave for me about Hadji and players like that, we were fantastic, but you had the license to go and do that, where we didn't, we had the license basically to say, no, you're in

a 4-4-2, and you work your socks off, and the way English football was then, it was a hustle bustle, get it forward, you know, knockdowns, second balls, where all of the teams caught us up on the physical side, they always thought they were more technical than us um and and that's where they caught us up they they got physical but they had the technical ability to go along with it and that's where we got sort of held up so when you played for england a lot of people say did you did you ever think you got the best i don't think

go through all the skillful players you want i don't think we've ever saw many skillful players get the best out of them for they've put an England shirt on. People will say Gazza. Gazza was a box-to-box. He was a midfield player. He wasn't a luxury player. Gazza was a... He could play. He could cover the ground. He was fit as a lot when he was at his best. And he could get up and down. He could tackle, compete.

He could run with the ball. He could do everything. So he was an ideal English footballer. But if you look at myself and Glenn Hoddles and John Barnes, people will say they never saw the best of at myself and Glenn Hoddles and John Barnes people say he never saw the best of John in England and John would probably say

the same thing as I do you know when he's stuck on the wing and you're playing on top of your fullback you're 80 yards from goal sometimes 60 yards

from goal and people expect you to run up the wing beat three blokes cross it and somebody ends it in there don't work like that football

so I think the way football adjusted eventually in England I'd had it with Marseille and I said this is how you play football in my eyes this is how you get the best

and it's not about you know in England we'd all do training sessions the same way so when you did shooting and finishing at the end of the day

it would be centre half shooting full backs you think they don't shoot in a football match they don't do finishing so when I went to Marseille it was like

Pat Land did this, I did that. We turned as a group, but then we went as individuals, got in groups, what we thought we'd do in a game. And it learned me so much playing abroad. Unbelievable. And when I joined up with England, it used to be sometimes, oh, yeah, we go back to the rigid zone, can't express yourself as such.

And at times it was very frustrating because you knew you had so much more to offer and people were watching you doing things for your club side. And yet for England, they would say, he doesn't do as much for that. But you just think it was sort of like you had shackles on and it was very difficult. Chris, it's been amazing to hear some of your Marseille memories.

I've got to tell you, Michelle has just been in touch as well to say, I was in Aix-en-Provence as a student in 1990 and they did Chris Waddle haircuts in the salons, which sounds fantastic. Yeah, I used to get mine cut and I remember when I got it all cut off and everybody in the ground,

the ball boys and everybody had mullets, the whole ground sort of had it. And when I got it cut off, it was like, I think that was more disappointing to some of the fans than actually losing the Champions League

final you know and I remember the ball boys little ball boys used to come up and say Chris my mum

will not let us get a short because I had shaving on the sides and at the back and they said my mum will not let us have it shaved

so I've got to stick with a mullet so yeah they're all devastated when my mullet went off chris it's been brilliant thank you so much for coming on really appreciate it lovely to talk to you cheers thanks finally then for our show our european football hour it's 25 years to the day since this. Suddenly alert to the danger. Scrambled back. Not quickly enough. Got one hand to it. Couldn't stop it. And right at the very death, the Spanish have claimed this trophy.

It's Arsenal 1, Real Zaragoza 2. That was Naeem scoring dad goal against Arsenal in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup. And he is with us now. Naeem, hello. Hello. I guess you've been talking a lot about this goal,

but we want to go into detail. So the first thing we have to do is actually to put the goal in context and then do that, look at it in detail. And it was at the end of extra time.

A game with chances in both ends, but it was 1-1 at the time. Sneijder had a fantastic goal for Zaragoza. John Hartson scored up for Arsenal. Was, at that point point the score fair?

I think we were a better side since the second half and the extra time we had more few chances than Arsenal but obviously

we were talking about a great team you know Arsenal at that time they were the you know the cup winners the team you know Arsenal at that time they were the you know the cup winners the last

you know the season before and obviously you know we had a really good second half and a very good

extra time game but we know at Arsenal they were a very strong side Ok

minute 199 now 30 seconds the ball comes bouncing to you. Explain everything that happened at the moment. I just got the ball to my chest from Gillingham and I put it down and it was bouncing. I had no pressure from any Arsenal player and I just looked up to see, to give a pass to my teammates, Juan Sneijder and Miguel Pardesa and I thought they were maybe in the offside position. At the same time I saw them that they could be in that position, I saw David Seaman over the line and, you know, and the ball was just

bouncing perfectly to me to say that, that shot and I, that's happened in, you know, in one second. I thought everything

just in one second and that was, you know, this is my chance. I'm just going to try and see if I'm lucky enough to, to beat,

to beat David and that's what happens. You know, he had the little doubt about going back and that little doubt they make it

being in trouble to go back to save that ball I still remember that goal I was still a young kid

when you scored that goal what goes through your mind at that point is it just instinct in an instinctive decision?

Or is it just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. It's instinct. It's instinct. You don't know how you did it. It's just, you know, that happens sometimes in football. You do things that you can't explain.

And that's what happened in that, you know, in that shot. I just, you know, David Seaman and off the line and tried it which is you don't think much about it you don't have to you know you don't have time

to think about it it just happened and I can you know try to explain it but to understand it it's very difficult You started running

looking for looking for your family no? But you were stuck in your tracks Yeah absolutely I was looking for your family, no? But you were stuck in your tracks. Absolutely. I was looking for my father first because he was my hero

and he was my motivation all my career. But at the same time, I was looking if it's possible to see Terry Venables as well because I know he was there. I think he was commentating the game for BBC, I think. And just trying to see him. It was impossible to see anyone.

But that's my thought when I scored the goal, just to thank both of them. First of all, for my father to be my hero and to give me everything. And also for Terry Bennebos, that he was the man that gave me the chance to play in the first team in Barcelona

and at the same time just going to join Tottenham in 88 and had a really great five seasons there. Did it change your life at the moment? Absolutely.

Absolutely. It changed everything for me. Just after that action I've been known everywhere wherever I go and I did a lot of things thanks to that action, I've been known everywhere, wherever I go. And I did a lot of things thanks to that action. And also thanks God for that.

I mean, this is football. That's what's the magic of this game. You do things and sometimes they mark you for life. And that's what did the action. They marked me for life and for good. Naeem, absolute honour to speak to you on the show. Thank you very much for reliving that goal. It was a real pleasure. Thank you. Alright, that's all from us this week. Big thank you to Guillaume Balaguet and to Christophe

Theroux and to everybody who joined us as well. Mark Chapman will be live at seven with the Monday Night Club and that will also be available as a Football Daily on BBC Sounds. So make sure you don't miss that. Thank you for listening. This is the Football Daily Podcast.