Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Davide Ancelotti Special

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Balague and Davide Ancelotti on this special episode of the Euro Leagues! Davide discusses his upbringing as the son of Carlo Ancelotti, how his father has influenced him as a coach and as a person, and how he motivates his own players through storytelling.Davide also reflects on his first-ever head coach role at Botafogo, before his assistant at the Brazilian club, Andy Mangan, joins the pod! The pair reflect on meeting in Newport, Wales, whilst completing their UEFA badges, and how Andy was asked to join Real Madrid from Stockport back in 2024.And of course, with Davide being Brazil's assistant manager under Carlo Ancelotti at this summer's World Cup, the team look ahead to the tournament, and discuss which players could surprise people in North America.Timecodes: 02:38 Davide's involvement with Brazil at the World Cup 12:21 Could Neymar go to the World Cup, & which players might surprise people? 16:12 Davide's assistant at Botafogo, Andy Mangan, discusses meeting Davide in Wales 32:23 What Davide learnt from his first head coach role at Botafogo? 36:47 Why the potential move to Rangers collapsed 40:52 Davide on creating his own identity whilst being Carlo's son 53:10 How films, books & nature are used to inspire players 59:25 Could Davide manage in the United Kingdom?Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1500 Brentford v Everton in PL, Sat 1500 Burnley v Brighton in PL (Sports Extra), Sat 1730 Liverpool v Fulham in PL, Sun 1400 Sunderland v Tottenham in PL, Sun 1400 Nottingham Forest v Aston Villa in PL (Sports Extra), Sun 1400 Crystal Palace v Newcastle United in PL (Sports Extra 2), Sun 1630 Chelsea v Manchester City in PL.

the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues, with Steve Crosman. Hello there, welcome to a special Euroleagues, special not only because Guy and Balaga is in the same room as me. That doesn't happen often, Steve. How are you? It's very rare. I'm very good. How are you?

Yes, good, good, good. Well, actually, a little bit cold because I've just arrived from Barcelona and it's raining and, you know, I was wearing the wrong clothes, but never mind. Yeah, I feel like we're not necessarily giving the best impression of Salford today with the weather, which is a shame because we have. sitting in between us a very special guest. Yes, somebody that has actually been today in Madrid and Ibiza, I think. We've got with us, Davide Ancelotti, who of course is former assistant of Carl Ancelotti

at Bayern, Everton, Napoli, Real Madrid, and the former manager of Botafogo recently, who will be in the World Cup. Good afternoon, Davila, you've been the world. Good afternoon, yes, I just come from Ibiza, where the weather was. was beautiful this morning. But I stayed in Ibiza just for one hour. That's the detail, because it was a connection from Madrid, where also the weather was beautiful,

and it's not the same here in Salford. So to be in the Euroleaks, what time did you get up this morning to get here? 5.20. That's commitment. And he looks brilliant, and I got up at like 9 a.m. and I look awful.

Davide, come on. Yeah, that's why. because I'm happy to be here with you. So thank you for inviting me. I'm going to hear what time he has to get the flight tomorrow. Yeah, that's extreme. The flight is at 6, so I have to wake up early tomorrow. And now I feel under pressure to make this the best interview of all time.

Otherwise, you're going to feel like it wasn't worth it. It has to be. Well, the thing that I enjoyed, David, is the first thing you did when you sat down is said, can I press any of these buttons? That's the head coach in you, isn't it? Eidgety wanting to try and take control. Yeah, I feel like I'm in Artemis 2 mission here. At the studio.

Yeah, to the moon. So now I think it's pretty actual, this kind of thing. So I would like to touch everything, but you told me it's not allowed. He follows the rules. It's like Football Daily meets Project Hail Mary. Yeah.

I honestly, Guillem, don't know where to start. Luckily, we've got quite a nice chunk of time here, but there are so many different topics. I mean, obviously at some point we'll talk about Carlo and, everything that goes along with him. But there's just an amazing amount of options. Why don't you pick? Where should we start?

I think at the beginning, we have to go perhaps at the end. The World Cup is close, is near, and you are going to be assistant manager of Brazil, no less. The biggest football nation in the world, perhaps? No pressure. How are you leaving the whole experience? Wow, it's a big question. First of all, I'm honoured.

honestly to be involved in this process, to have this challenge, this kind of challenge. I think, honestly, sometimes you are in the dressing room and you think, what the hell, no? So I'm here with this fantastic t-shirt, the jersey is fantastic. But you gave us, I don't know, 206 players, just that you...

The list is 26 players. So, no, a big honor. The challenge is so motivating. I'm so happy, so motivated to be there. and represent a country that represent football. So from my childhood, you see the World Cup 94 when I was five, and you remember that summer in the bar watching Italy, Brazil, the final. That was hard to get for us, Italians, but now to be there, honestly, it's a dream come through.

Most iconic jersey in the history of football, I would argue. With Real Madrid. Yeah, good answer, yeah, yeah. opinion. But I'm the same as you. Like I was born 85 so my my first proper World Cup memory is 94. So I see that jersey and I think Romario and Babetta. What do you think? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the same. And then Ronaldo, all these icons and what that shirt represent is so big because in Brazil and I've lived there for six months being a manager, football is really big. Football is really played. on the street, something that in Europe maybe we lost.

And Brazilian people loves football and is really, really competitive. So that's why the pressure is so big and will be so big. Because they like to win. They like to jog a bonito, but they like to win a lot. So we have this challenge and we hope we will work hard and try to be at the level. level. So you actually have been perhaps with the club with the biggest amount of pressure in the world, Real Madrid, and the national side that only has got one thing in the mind and anything else is failure, is winning or failure in Brazil. How do you taste and feel and touch that pressure?

You think, honestly, when you are in this kind of environment, what you think is not that you have pressure on you, you just work through it. You just think the reward that could be could be something that you will never forget and we had some unforgettable moments in Madrid

and the dream is to have unforgettable moments also with the with Celesau but people in the street goes like unless you win that be don't come back

or what do they say to you? No no no no of course they are really excited about it they are also scared because the last experiences in the World Cup were tough. They didn't go through the quarterfinals in the last editions. And we are there also to release this pressure of the players,

because the players, they put a lot of pressure on themselves because playing for that shirt is not easy. And we know we are there to make them feel comfortable and have clear ideas when, There will be moments of really, really high pressure during the competition. So that's our task as well. Do you think that something that will have helped you a lot when it comes to working with the huge name players that you have now worked with,

club level, international level, is the fact that presumably, because obviously your dad, not just a great coach, he was also a great player, you will have been surrounded since you were a tiny little boy by galactic names in football. Like who was the who's the, as a kid, who's the first big player that you can remember meeting? Gigi Bufone. Oh, that'll do it. Yeah. Yeah, because when I was, when I was six and I was going to the training ground, it was always playing with me.

So I remember really clearly that group Bufon, there was Turam, there was Carnavaro, big names. They were young because they just, then their career was huge. after that, they were just at the beginning. But the first names that I remember in my childhood, being at the training ground on the pitch with them is this big three. Did Bufon let you score when you played this? No, no, no. I think I didn't reach the goal from the penalty spot at the time,

so it was difficult to take a penalty. So you see them walk, you see them talk, you see them train. What have they got that's special, that others don't? What is it that they, those names have got? But these big names, and they represent good values in the way they behave, in the way they train, in the way they compete and in the relationship with the manager, that is difficult to forget. So once you see players like Paulo Maldini that is 40 years old and he can train maybe three times a week doing the basics, like with the most intensity that you've ever seen because I was 17 and sometimes I was training with them

with the first team and you see it in a passing drill you see Maldini the intensity that he has at 40 in making a movement or asking for the ball then you understand that there is something special after winning five Champions League as a player if you train in a match day plus one after the game and you train like this

it means that you have something special. Then you see it with a lot of names. Luca Modrich is the same right now. So you're training with them. And I guess at some point you go like, I'm not going to be like them. How dare you? How dare you?

It's not true. No, it's true, it's true. You realize that you don't have the talent that they have. So you could have the attitude, the good behavior, the good values, but at the end is aptitude as well. You need talent to be at the top level. So when I started to study at the university and I've seen that I could have done a career, but not as high as I wanted, I decided then to take the academic way.

So I studied sports science and I finished my studies. at the university and then I started my coaching career. First as a fitness coach and then a system coach. So we're going to talk quite a lot shortly about the role that Wales has played in your coaching journey, which I'm really looking for. Oh yeah. Yeah. We'll get there.

It's the last step. It's the last step of my, of my, let's say, courses, because you have three steps, now, the WIFAB that my colleague, Guillem, can say, is a way. Fabi as well like me. I started in Italy. So the first step was in Italy, then in in Germany, the second one, because the DA license, I got it there during our experience at Bayern. And in Wales, of course, the last step. So it was a huge part in my in my learning process. So we'll go to Newport after we've talked a little bit more about Brazil, two quite different places, Rio Giro and Newport.

How are you feeling? Let's just talk actual football, football then. Ahead of the World Cup, we are, what are we now? Start of early April, so we're only two months away. How are you feeling about the team, the setup, the journey that's going to be? I have good feelings. I have good feelings. I think the process is going in the right way.

Now we had our last international break. is I think is important to have a clear style of play, clear idea, because you get players from different environments. I think the message is going through really well, and the team will be ready for the World Cup. It will be difficult because it will be after a really long season. There are players that we reach the World Cup with more than 60 games, and this is not good.

It will be not good for the show, for the people that is watching the show. we will take care of the players physically I think it will be important because the weather will be so hot it will be a competition that will be decided by small details small details in games but in general I can say that

we have a really competitive team that can play a football that could be efficient in a competition like that with the characteristic that the team has so positive we've got millions of listeners in Brazil and they wouldn't forgive us if we actually didn't ask you about Naima

Naima is trying to fight his way into the team personally a look at him I've seen in play doesn't look ready for a well-cob but what is the stand from the coaching staff at the end is a decision of the manager that he will take

he has time to take it the final list will be on the 18th of May and of course he is top scorer of the national team And he has a chance. He has a chance. He has a time to do his best and try to get into the list. Who might surprise us? And what I mean by that is by the time we get to the World Cup, you know, there are names in that Brazil squad who people will just know instantly, like the back of their hand. But the players that you have seen, who are you looking at at the minute and thinking this guy? people might know his name but they're going to know his name.

So you want me to spoil you the list for the World Cup? That's the question. Because the guy that will surprise you, maybe you don't know that he will be in the list, no? Yeah, good point. Yeah, yeah. I think the guy that will surprise you is someone that is not so really known. But in terms of attacking players that we have, we have a lot. We have a lot of talent, a lot of different profiles.

And I think from the times I've been there, if I have to give you a name, of course Estevao is one of the raising talent of Brazil. Last international break, it was not involved because he came back from an injury. And for us, as a coaching team, is really important to have all the players fit when we make a list. Of course, for the final list will be different because if you have an important player that could recover in the time that you have from the list to the first game, We can call him, but for the previous list was different and he was not involved. But he's a really big talent.

He's a really good finisher. So he's someone that can dominate in Europe as a talent for the next years. Steve is asking you for personal reasons. What do you mean? Well, who's going to be close to the Brazil national side? Oh, me? For the first like two weeks, like New Jersey, right? Yes.

I'm going to be there. Oh, nice. Yeah. So if I see you in the streets in Manhattan, I'll try not to bother you. Yeah. But also I'll be like, Davidey and you'll be like, who is this?

I don't recognize it. Maybe we'll have some days off. I don't know. I don't think so. This is as well. That same reaction was when I told Davide earlier, the first time that we spoke. It was the championship final.

They just won it against Berushcheon in Wembley. And I went to him and said, I had the super flash, which means that you jump into the pitch straight away and you can talk to anybody who's there. And he was there. It was so nice to me. He shook my hands. Congratulations. And then we talk about the game a little bit and you don't remember nothing about it. Nothing. Zero. No. Because you were floating. I was on another planet. Like Orion, I was like Artemis. Comes back again.

Are you obsessed with space? Is this what's happening? I would like to be there, honestly. I would like to be there. It's my dream. Seriously. And is not your dream? To go to the moon? I haven't really dreamt of it recently, no. That's a big dream. Your dream is to run the marathon, no? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm considering doing that at the minute. I love the way that. I told Davide before we started that I might do the London Marathon next year, and he was a bit like, oh, I don't know, I don't know. He must have got a space. Yes, you know, think big. That's where you go to long places.

Do you want to introduce our guest who is ready to talk to us, Guillem? Yes. We did tell Davide we were having a special guest on and he doesn't know who it is. No, but there was a wonderful, wonderful article on the Sunday Times by Jonathan Northcroft about Davida's assistant manager at Botafogo,

but somebody that he's known for a long time, and I'm sure there are a lot of stories to hear from him, and that's Andy Mangar, Andy, are you all right? Hello, Guillem, how are you? Steve Davide, you okay? Hi, mate. How are you? This is what happens, right?

When you get together with Liverpool people, people. The Scouse accent comes out. I should say, hi lad. Yeah, he's got a bit of scouse in him. I hope that's not all you've taught him, Andy. No, I've taught him a few more things, but unfortunately it's the blue side of Liverpool he loves.

Oh, of course it is, because of Carlo has to be. Yeah. Yeah. It's a fascinating story. I don't know which one is more fascinating. Davides or Andes, but it all starts with a meeting that you, David, the fours a little bit.

Tell us what happened. So Andy, because the first time we met at the course in Newport, they asked us to present ourselves. Yeah. And it's not easy. If I tell you, stand up and talk for a minute about yourself to a group of strangers. Yeah. I think it was a test, honestly, but it was not easy for me. So I was a little bit shy and everyone.

was a little bit shy, closed, and we started to talk and we talked for just one minute or less. Everyone was shy. And then it came the turn of Andy Mangan. Andy Mangan stand up with the laptop and put the laptop on the table and connect the cable and started to make a presentation about his life. But like 10 minutes' presentation and his ability to talk was really impressive, no? And also the story that he told was impressive. So I was impressed by him from the first minute.

What was the story then, Andy? Yeah, no, he's absolutely right. And I must have made an impression because he still remembers it, so that's nice. So what had happened was we had to get up and talk about our background and a little bit of, it was called the Four Hs. Yeah.

And it was your heroes, your hopes, your heartbreaks and your history. So I got up and spoke a little bit about each one. of those. For example, my hero was Muhammad Ali and I spoke about why my history was my background, the fact that I'm

from a broken home, so I look I'm obsessed. It was a bit of an escape for me when I was younger, football and I spoke about some detailed football stuff as well. And then when I sat down, luckily enough I was sat next to Davidae and, you know, we hit it off

straight away and then later on that evening we had more of a chat and he had the Champions League that week. and we spoke about a couple of things obviously unfortunately they beat Liverpool that night 1-0 but then what had happened was which was lovely of him and very kind

and something that I'll never forget he invited me over to complete my foreign study visits and it was there that we really got to know each other you remember tell the story about the coffee the coffee fell on you and you had to come back to the hotel

oh my God and you came late I had, yeah. So obviously, this is funny because I did tell this story later on when I've done my foreign visit. So you're very nervous. And weirdly, my phone wouldn't work in Madrid.

And at that point, I didn't speak a word of Spanish. And believe me, I don't speak that many words now. So I looked at the driver. I've got coffee all over me. And I just said, no, no, we need to go back to the hotel. And he said, back to the hotel. I didn't want to embarrass myself. and walk in, and for Davidei or his father to see me with coffee all down me,

clothes. And by the way, it was a white T-shirt. To have ruined. Lesson, no white shirt or T-shirt for a visit like that. Believe me, the lesson was, Jim, no coffee when you're in a taxi driver. They are untrustworthy at the best of times. Too fast he was going. But on the back of all of that, Real Madrid wanted you.

You could have gone to Real Madrid, no, Andy? So over the course of the next few years, David would invite me over which was again amazing and something that I've never forgot and I will never take for granted it was such an honour and he would invite me into the meetings

and stuff like that and we would obviously talk about football and it was actually one time he he called me up and asked me if I would like to be as assistant manager which I was delighted about and then when he would start

when he would begin his career but that sort of fast forwarded into would you like to come to Real Madrid and obviously unfortunately one thing led to another and I was over there signed a contract and for one reason or another it didn't it was disappointing but you know what it actually made me prepare a little bit more for when we would go together. That must have been tough Andy. Well do you know what and I tell everybody this it was more tough for the kids

because the kids had told all the friends that the dad was going to Real Madrid You know, if you got to know me with Stavaday, I'll be able to tell you about me. I'm quite a positive person. So for me, the best thing was, okay, great experience potentially going to Real Madrid. What's next? You know, how can I improve? How can I, you know, put together some of the things that I've learned into my everyday work and develop it into training?

You know what's really interesting about this, Davida, is that, so for those that don't know, I'm going to do a little plug here. So I actually went to Newport last summer and made a doctor. documentary all about the Welsh FAA's pro-license course. It's called The Welsh Way. You can find it obviously right now on BBC Sounds. And it's brilliant. Oh, come on.

Have you listened to it? You just know it's brilliant because I made it. I'm too busy. You know that. But one of the lovely things, Davida, that I sort of witnessed happening there is, so there were lots of big names doing the course. Gail Klishi did it this year.

Nuri Shaheen did it this year. And he described it as Harvard for football coaches, which is a lovely phrase, but also Dante was doing the course, as in Bayern Munich Dante, and he had become really good friends with Richard Davis, who's the manager of Canavan Town. And so now, who knows, maybe they'll work together in future.

So this is a great thing, isn't it, that people like you can land in this place and meet people like Andy, and who knows one day maybe make great coaching music together? Yeah, yeah, that's fantastic. And it all starts. with a glass of wine and having conversation about football and then you get to know the people as well. And it's true. It's really important not only for the knowledge that you can get from a course like this,

but also, and especially from the sharing. That is the, I think that the best way to learn. For us, coaches is to share our experience, our knowledge, because you can learn a lot from the others. And with Andy was exactly the case. In my methodology, in my philosophy, I trust, and for me the starting point is always the human relationship. So I had a great human relationship with him. Of course, he's a really good coach on the pitch as well. And he's really positive. He's a really positive person.

So because of his background, that was so difficult. So as a manager, then when you are in charge, you need someone like this behavior. next to you because you will have a really tough moments. You need it especially in the tough moments. No?

I'm hearing Andy adds a little bit of emotional balance to you when you go like, no, I'm just going to throw everything away. This is not working. It's terrible.

And it just calms you down. Is that how it works? He remembers me that I don't have to lose the plot. Something that happens a lot. Honestly, and I know he's there, I'm not going to embarrass him saying this. He's a top person, you know, very honest, very driven, fully committed to improve in every day.

You know, you can see why he's operated at the level that he has operated at the top, top level, you know, for the rest of his career. You know, working with him, to be honest, there's been an amazing experience. You know, what stands out straightaway is how detailed and structured David is. You know, not only in his thinking and every session, you know, also every meeting, you know, there's real clarity behind the things that he's done. And, you know, for example, he does these meetings and he tells his story. And some of the stories that he's told are so inspiring. I won't give the secrets away because we'll probably use them at the next club. But they are so inspiring.

And the players, the player's buying and how the players look at him has just been fascinating. How he can capture the imagination of the player has been really good. and then add on to the fact that, you know, as tactical detail, as player relationships, and like, you know, the bigger game model, it's just,

I've learned so much in such a short period at the time. You know, he's very modern in that sense. You know, he doesn't just coach the moments. What fascinated me was with Davidae, was, you know, he builds the full environment where players understand the roles within the system, but it's not just a short-term solution.

The way we grew in the five months that we were together was honestly, I've reflected on it a lot, as you can imagine, and it was a wonderful experience. You both had Tony Pulley's as a teacher. Is that right? Yeah, he came once to the curse, and then we had, after the lesson, I had a conversation with him, and he took a piece of paper and started to explain me about the set place.

The thing is, you made such a big impression on him, that he's been telling people that he sees you at the highest level, at the biggest clubs that you will be all right. And one of the reasons he's saying that, and perhaps Sunday you can help me with this, is because there is so many layers about David and his methodology, his way of playing, is not just one way.

It's about dominating a lot of things. That's the big idea, isn't it? Well, yeah, you know, everything's connected. Everything. Training was connected to the tactical idea, the player understanding. you know he's not

like I said he's not just preparing for the next game you know he was building a way of playing that the players can believe

in and execute under pressure you know that's the biggest you know that's the biggest thing that you can say for a coach

when we went into Botafogo with the statistics that the guys were showing us but they were in the they were in the lower end of the league

and very quickly we moved up some of the statistics we ended up top of the league you know we went in we worked on counterpressing drills but then very quickly moved into

what we were doing on the ball. His idea was brilliant and add on to the fact that he's also very calm and consistent and you guys both know in football and especially at that level things can get emotional pretty quickly

but he brings a real sense of control and clarity which I think players respond to it. They certainly did a Botafogo. I have to ask you Davidae what the Tony Pulis setpiece seminar was like for you because when I was in it it was it was a lot of him swearing at Tranmere Rovers under 16s because they couldn't do the drill properly no no he gave me he gave

me some really good advice I think is he's kind of a mentor for me so when I have some and when I had some doubts about the job because it was my first job of course I have my father on a daily basis but I wanted to have an opinion from someone else that is experienced. We would say an old fox. A old fox, yeah. And he gave me, he was really, really, always really available with me. And so I'm really grateful because his goal to have advices from someone that fought a lot of battles in his career. and so that's why I have a special relationship with him.

Andy, just before we let you go, tell us about your role with Brazil at this summer's World Cup because what an opportunity that is. Yeah, you know, another string to the bow. I'm going to be the opposition scout. So when, obviously, Brazil will be playing the games. I will be scouting the teams that we could potentially play in the next round. So I've already begun my job.

I went to Holland. I flew to Amsterdam to watch Netherlands versus Norway, which was a really good game. And also then I went to Wembley last week to watch England versus Japan. So honestly, fascinated and again, so thankful. And one which I'll jump into and give me all. You know, if Davidae believes, and yet it's difficult to not feel that confidence

and that level of care that you can go and do a really good job. You know, all the things that I've mentioned there, to be honest, before you let me go are really important things the way we spoke about as detail and things like that but you know probably the most important thing maybe

is you know the fact that he can carry the weight of expectation on his shoulders at big clubs every day every game which actually allows everyone who works for him

to give the best you know feel it made me feel so valued and I was able to perform at my best level for him and you know we had a real good relationship it was an incredible part

of my life so far So if Brazil end up playing England at some point, Andy, then you're effectively a spy behind enemy lies. You'd be like Bielsa with the binoculars looking over the fence, yeah? Well, you know, don't forget I am Scouse. Yeah. So I am a Scouse Brazilian now, if I'm being honest. Andy, it's been lovely to have you on.

Thank you so much for talking to us. Thank you very much. I'll see you soon, guys, okay? Take care. Chis. Ciao. Ciao. Ciao.

Andy Mangon, who has worked with Davidei at Botafogo and is working at the World Cup with Brazil this summer and also used to play up front with Jamie Vardy for Fleetwood Town. So I like, I mean, everyone's got a great story. And he scored against Chelsea. Yeah. And he scored against Philippe Louis. Philippe Lewis was the player that was marking him in the box of Chelsea.

And Philippe Luis was the manager of Flamengo. So when we face Flamengo, Andy was really proud about his goal in the FA Cup and said, Philippe, you remember that goal that you were marking? And Felipe, that marked the best players in the world, didn't remember. But it was nice. What nice, Felipe is a really good guy and he will have a fantastic career in Europe. And it was a good moment.

We talk about Botafogo then. Yeah. Tell us about that experience. Botafogo was unexpected. It was a call from John Textor when I was on holidays with my... family during the summer I decided after some conversations with clubs in at the end of the season to go with the national team and stay all this season with the national team until the World Cup but suddenly called John Dexter and convinced me I was watching at the time the

workup the clubs work up in the States and Botafogo was a good side that competed well in this group going against PSG they beat the PSG in the group they competed the game they competed well against Atlago Madrid and they had a good squad. So they were down in the table. They were ninth. They were going through a difficult moment. So I took over after the World Cup and we started quite well, the first three or four games. And then we started to drop a little bit.

We were not consistent with the result, but it was, I think, part of the process, also because we lost important players through the end of the market. because of some problems that we had financially. But then it was a really good experience for me. First experience as a manager, so I learned so many things in a difficult environment because Brazilian football for managers is a difficult environment. So if you consider that now we are nine games into the new season

and there are 10 managers sucked in the league. Wow. Yeah, more than one per game. So it's a tough environment. The pressure is really high. You need results. But it was what I wanted. So I wanted to see how I could react to a difficult environment like that.

And in fact, so there was a project that included some of those players that were sold. And it was only five months because you decided to only be five months because we had a longer contract. because perhaps you were saying that where the club was going to is not exactly the same place you wanted to take it? Yeah, the project was to finish the season to improve the situation of the team in the table and to get the Libertadores

that was reached at the end of the season. The feelings were good, but then we sat down at the end of the season and looking into this season that would start in January. We had different vision. So for me and for the club, the best solution was to finish the relationship,

but it's an experience that I will never forget. I will never forget because it's the first one, and I had a good relationship with the group. You will never forget your first group of players as a manager. And after those 10 consecutive wins and the fact that you've reached the Libertadores, I think there is a queue of Brazilian clubs that I would like to take you if you wanted to go back to Brazil.

It's an option. Is a market open for the future? It's a league that is really tough, is competitive, the level is high. It's difficult for managers because, as I said at the beginning, Brazilian culture is to win. It's a winning culture. It's not only to play well, especially to win. And this pressure is on every manager in the league. The expectation is high because the fans are,

a lot. The fans are all because there is a lot of people. So in Rio you have four teams. You have Flamengo that has to win every game. If you are Vasco da Gama, you have to win every game. And if you have Botafogo, you have to win every and if you are Fluminense. And if you are Fluminense, you have to win every game. But then in San Paolo, you have Palmeras, Corinthians, Sao Paulo, and you have big Santos and are big clubs with big history. And for these These clubs played the best place in the history of football. For Botafogo played Garincia, for example. Nilton Santos, the history of the Selesau.

So the expectation is really high. And when the expectation is really high, for the manager is tough, because you don't have always the possibility to win every game. There are quite a lot of those cities in the world where there are massive football clubs and you have to win and that's the only way. And another one of them is Glasgow. There was a period where I think a lot of people thought you might be the next head coach at the time of Rangers. So was that quite closer at any point?

Yeah, it was a club that I had conversations with. There is an interview process, as always now, in modern football where you have to go through. And I went through this process well, but then at the end they have to pick one. And they didn't pick me. but the process went well and the relationship with the club is good and I appreciate the fact that they consider me for the job.

So, did the interview go something like... Right, Mr. Angelotti, how do you want your team to play? More or less, it's like this. So you have to answer a lot of questions by the clubs about your philosophy, about how you train, about how do you cope with the pressure, with the media. But at the end of the day,

until you don't see a manager working on a daily basis, it's difficult to evaluate. There's not a bad interview or support, job interview, ever. There's not a bad one. There's nobody who says, look, look, I blow up under pressure. Yeah, yeah, I blew up under pressure. I don't like to win. Yeah, nobody wants to say.

Don't ask me to have a winning culture, winning mentality, because I... My first job interview was in a call center and I didn't get it. I need you to clarify me one thing, though. I heard that when the Rangers situation was possible, you could have gone to Glasgow, that you would approach players,

players that you knew that had been with you at Ramadir, like Lucas Bacquhar, or Madrid. It's like, what do you like, something like this? And then, of course, they may have had other plans. I wrote that in the BBC in a block, and there's so much passion in Glasgow towards football, that that story was converted,

that Luca Modrich is definitely going to Rangers, which I never said. But it's true that you have that direct contact with those players. Was it a possibility? Not a possibility, but did you ask, would you be interested? Reading that news was a good idea, honestly. I could have asked him. But why not?

I mean, Rangers is a big club with a big history in Europe, plays European competition. Luca Modrich needs to prepare for the World Cup. at the end he decided to do something like this so to go to play in a big club with history someone that he could represent but no I honestly I didn't ask anyone because I didn't get the jobs

and I was not sure to have the job so why asking no but it was a good idea is it like any other job interview that anybody has when you come out and you know like do you know what I think I nailed that Normally when you think that you got it, you don't get it. Is that right? Yeah.

I thought I'd got a role center job. And when you think you were bad in the interview, maybe sometimes you get the surprise. But it's changed, honestly, because also speaking with my father, he says, when I started, when I was a young manager, the process was different. The sporting director called and said, you have the job. I decided that it's you. Now, I think there is a long process also because the decision making is made by different people. It's difficult that there is one owner that is connected with one sporting director now is you have to convince different people. So that's why they need to be sure and they need to have different interviews.

and then they need to discuss who's the best profile. Are there ways in which being your father's son can make these interviews more difficult? Because I'm sure there'll be an amazing number of ways in which you've benefited from your dad's wisdom and experience and all that kind of thing. But equally, you are your own man and you don't want people just to look at you as Carlos' son, right?

I can't... This is a good question. So I am in a process and this process is creating my own identity as a manager. But I cannot pretend to have this now that I only coached for six months a professional team. I know and I want to be separated. I want to have my own identity as a manager but I understand that at the moment I am still connected to him. and for some people I am like him, but I am not exactly like him. I have a similar character, but I am a different kind of manager.

You joined your dad at Bayern Munich, and I suppose there has been an evolution from there to Brazil. So what has been that evolution as an assistant to Carlo? He took a step, a big step at the beginning. So at the beginning I was from the fitness from a fitness coach. I became an assistant coach. But in football today, you have a lot of fitness coaches. There are coaches. So I was already a coach before.

So when we were in Madrid in our first step, we were more or less coaches because I have to go further back at Paris-Germain. When I started, I started in the academy. me and the methodology that they were starting to use was the methodology that came from Barcelona in the academy. So they started to work only with the ball. So for us fitness coaches, we had to coach drills with the ball as well. So my coaching experience started there.

So from a fitness coach to a coach didn't change a lot. And then at Bayern in the first season, I had a big step in January because Paul Clement, that was at the time the assistant manager got an offer from Swansea in the Premier League and my father I was sure that it was coming another one but my father told me no you will be the assistant manager and I was 26 and so I got the responsibility before I was aware I was ready to to have it so he gave me responsibility when I wasn't ready to have this kind of responsibility and that made me improve a lot and commit commit a lot to improve and to to show that I can I can be at the level no because at the end coaching is teaching

so you have to convince the players convince the players through your knowledge no to make them understand that there is something that they can improve that there is something that they are not making as they could. And through that, I think you can convince them. Even if they are older than you and they won more Champions League than you because then the players will appreciate, I think, the coach, if he has the ability and the skill to be coachable because not every player has it.

So you made your debut as a manager, as a number one, in a game against Roma, the right that your dad was suspended. He was suspended because he lost the plot, yeah. Lost the plot. A game against Atlanta. Because they didn't give us a penalty at the end. And in the counter-attack, we concede and we lost. So for my father, it's difficult to be fuming,

but it was swimming after that game, so he got the red card. So you have to lead the team against Roma. And does it feel like the whole world is watching you at that point, that things have happened so fast that is difficult for you to assimilate. Is that what was happening in that first experience? Honestly, I have to say that

when I'm under pressure, I can isolate myself and just focus on what I have to do. So, of course, if you think about it now, that I was exposed to that kind of pressure because for the team,

it was not a good moment. We were doing well in the Champions League, but in the league was a difficult moment for the team. It was a difficult game. away against Roma and I was exposed then the press conference after that was not easy it was my first press conference after the game it would treat you well no but at the no you didn't lose the part is you no I don't I didn't know but I think I can I am able to

to be focused and perform well under pressure so when I when I was there it was not a big deal How, in what way are you most different as a coach then to your dad? Because first of all, I don't want to compare myself with my father because it's really difficult to achieve what he achieved. Of course, of course I have to set high standards for my career. But my father is one of the best manager of all times. So I'm not saying it because it's my dad, but it's true. Yeah. If you see what he won and the team that he's managed, I think is not.

not is out of discussion. So I know that it will be tough to reach his level. And I'm different in the way that this is another good question. You are making good questions. So no, in the way that I have to be clearer with the message that as I am similar as a character, people does not have to understand kindness. So there is this misunderstanding sometimes in the environment around me and people like me that you are not demanding.

And I'm really ambitious, I'm really demanding, but I have to speak up for myself more because I don't have this aura that my father has. My father could get the attention of an entire room, just sit. sitting on the chair. So I have to, and I work more on my communication with people, with my players on a daily basis to make things differently. And then of course about football we have different ideas. We always had different ideas.

That's why I was so challenging with him and that's why he kept me with him for all this time. only because I'm his son because I'm really challenging and I think he found in me the most challenging assistant that he ever found me and the other assistant

that he has right now in Brazil As you're hearing David has thought a lot about football and football is a constant conversation if you like we were almost late because we started talking football and we could have just stayed with the coffee for another hour before coming on air

but I just wonder I've just heard something from Marcelo Bielsa that I wonder if that fits the way you are or how you think about

yourself as a coach because he said just recently he says I'm a toxic person and a very I'm a very toxic person

because I'm obsessed with football and the reason why I'm obsessed with football is for fear that is more fear to lose

than enthusiasm to win and all coaches think like that so you have to think to make sure that you don't lose plenty because otherwise you're not allowed

to be in the industry. Yeah, so I touch this point quoting Bill Belichick, great coach of the NFL history. Patriots. Yeah, that I was reading his book and at some point he says, I accept that I don't figure out my sport totally

and I will never will, no? So I will never do figure out this sport. But I wake up every morning with the ambition that I will. And that's why I have this passion. Because you don't know how much you don't know about your sport. And that's what moves me. That I have the ambition to find every single detail of this sport. But the fact that I accept that I'm not able to do it and I will not be able to do it,

it keeps me quiet as well so that's why I don't consider myself as an obsessed and does not make me sick this is something that I learn from my father what does your wife and two kids think of all of that if he's of sexion if football takes absolutely everything you will have to

how is the bank are you in debt with the family I think every coach is in debt with his family so I have to say thank you to Anna loud, thank you my love to be so patient

I am enjoying now that I'm not coaching trying to enjoy from one game to another for the time that I have with my family and and is a

you have to sacrifice something being in this world and what you sacrifice sometimes maybe most of the time is the time with your family. You just said that one of the lessons that you learned from your dad was that point around obsession and not letting it completely take over.

Did you learn that lesson because it's advice he gave you or did you learn that lesson because that's something that he was afflicted by? I learned a lesson as every lesson that I learned from him by the example. So my father is able to accept that he will not figure out everything about the game and the fact that he accepts it

allow him to enjoy life, to enjoy food even if now is skinny because he's a legend that my father is not skinny, you have to see him now because he's really fit for the World Cup. I think he will be the

most fit manager of the World Cup. He enjoys movies and I am like this I enjoy to smoke a cigar sometimes to have different like now I like to do Rubik's Cube do you? Yeah, it's great it's great so you you can have time

to have different hobbies It's a nightmare No no no no Can you do it then? Can you do a Rubik's Cube? I do it yeah the beginners the beginners method So white cross Yeah yeah the layer by layer So let's say two minutes and a half.

No way. Now I'm on two minutes and a half, but I'm not going to improve. It's okay. Yeah, that's fine. I can do a Rubik's Cube in two and a half minutes. I know that you need to improve. Yeah, but you need to have time for these things.

No. The world record is six, seven seconds, isn't it? Yeah. No, it's less. I think he's on three seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But no, just an example.

No, I like to play chess. sometimes, then I get tired and I want to do something else. And you have room for things in life that you would lost if you are totally obsessed about football. I have to ask you about movies now because I was thinking about doing it, but now you've mentioned it again. And before we started, you were asking about what are our favourite films. Yes. And actually, when Andy was with us, he said something about you and telling stories when it came to coaching. Is film an influence for you then in some way?

Yes, books, films, nature, everything could be an inspiration for a football team if you find a way to tell a story. I think it's really inspiring. I think it's a tool that every manager could use and I use it with my players. Of course, I like cinema, I like movie. And what was the question at the beginning? Well, how you use it to, so for example, your favorite film's Raging Bull. right? My favorite film is Mystic River and Raging Bull. Yeah. Okay. So do you use these things as ways of communicating messages to players? Yeah, because so my role, one of my role models is Phil Jackson. Okay. Phil Jackson was forward thinking. So if you read these books, when it was a player in the

70s, in the 80s, it was forward thinking for us right now in the world of football. So, and in a to give books to his players with histories and it's something that I also did in Botafogo. Once you get to know the player and the character of the player, you think about a book that he could read. That maybe he will never read. NBA player coach is Phil Jackson. Yes. Yeah, that one. Just check. Chicago Bulls. Yeah, yeah. And it's a good thing to connect with your players. If you give him a book with a story that could help him, for example. If you get to know the character of the players, the background of the player, if it struggles with something, to read a story could be a good help for him.

And I use examples from, for example, in Botafogo, from the whales, how they hunt. Wow. So all these kind of stories you could tell and could be... Like orchars, killer whales. Yeah. Wow. So what was it, how does that, how did you use that? So that time was whale washing.

So it's the technique that they use to kill the animal that they hunt. Seals. The seals, exactly. So they isolate the seal on a block of ice. And once it is isolated, then the job is not done. They have to be structured. They have to be organized. And they are going to kill someone that knows that is.

going to die and will fight for hours and hours and hours to stay on that block of ice. But they don't do it with individual initiatives. So they do it together and structure and patient and organized. So I showed how they hunt to my players because we were going to play the last game of the league against a team that needed three points to be safe. So if they lose, they are they are relegated and we needed that three points. So I say we will play against someone that is almost dead but could be really dangerous if we are not structured, if we are not disciplined and if we take initiative individually, no?

This kind of examples. The high press of the killer whale, I love it. Honestly, genuinely, I've been doing this for about, I don't know, 30 years, no, 25 years. That might be the most interesting answer to a question. Oh, great. I'm being serious. That is remarkable.

When you said nature, as an example, I was like, where is this going? But that is, that's fascinating. Well, imagine your story, you're talking about books. Your story will eventually be in books. You were as a kid playing with Buffon, then Del Piero came home, and then you started coaching and eventually cross paths with Crohn and other than all the people that you've had, that you tried to help. The one that perhaps we are more fascinated in recent times is Venetius

because we see somebody of a lot of quality and who's carrying the weight of the world in his shoulders and he's decided to take up a fight to make sure that discrimination is reduced or abandoning football. What is it like? What is he like to worry with? You touch the point. Vinicius is a star, is a football star, because of his talent. He's one of the most talented

players in the world so he carries this weight and he's alone to carry it because everyone expect him to win the game alone and the expectations again on him are higher than

any other players, maybe only in Bapa in Real Madrid right now but for a year or two he carried this weight alone and did you speak to him when all that was happening and he was emotionally crying in front of journalists and

he gets insulted in certain grounds. How did you deal? You're coaching star. How did you deal with all that and him? Having a manager like my father that is really good in being close to the stars, we didn't have to cope with it a lot.

We just focused on what he could improve and he has room for improvement even if he's one of the best maybe personal opinion, the best player in the world. But everyone has room for improvement. So we focus on that. We focus on that because we have a kind of manager that is specialist in the make the star not feeling alone.

From Drogba to Ibrahimovych, then Cristiano, and then Levandowski. He always had this ability to become. close with the star. Because at the end of the day, is the one that makes you win the Champions leagues because Vinissius scored twice in the final.

There's only one way to finish, and that's to ask you about an option. Because you said maybe for your next head coaching job, you know, Brazil is an option again. What about the UK? You had that experience, you interviewed with Rangers. How high on your list would the UK be as a possible next destination?

English football is the best football in Europe right now. has the best leagues, not only the Premier League, but also the championship. So it's really high on my list. Of course, after the World Cup, I would like to start my coaching journey in Europe, in Europe. And I'm having conversation with some clubs. I'm grateful for it. But of course, if a good project, a good opportunity comes up in England,

let's go for it and I will have the next interview as a manager of an English club here with you it wouldn't hurt to win the World Cup in the process David has been an absolute pleasure to have you thank you so much for coming and speaking to us

it's been a pleasure and it's been really relaxed so I don't feel I will feel a lot of pressure in the next month so it was good to have a chat about football in this environment I didn't touch any button, I swear. And if I see you in Manhattan, you won't cross the road.

No, no, no, I will. I'll give you a hug. Brilliant. Guillaum, thank you as always as well. Oh, Grouchabille. Great, that was great for David A Angelotti, who's been a guest of Guillem and I on the Euroleagues. By the way, the next episode of the podcast

will be the football interview with Aston Villa and England striker, Oli Watkins. As always, thank you so much for listening. Hello, I'm Tyler West and I'm Alfie Watts. And this is The Detour, the official companion podcast to race across the world. This is the post-episode checkpoint where you'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our race superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by a resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, ma'am.

I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg, including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way. And we'll also have some not seen anywhere else exclusive content at the end of every episode. I cannot wait. The detour will land straight after each episode of Race Across the World. You can watch on EyePlayer or listen on Sounds, where you'll also find extra bonus content. We'll see you then.