Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Did the Champions League new format work?

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Balague, Rafa Honigstein and James Horncastle. Did the new format of the Champions League work? Did it favour the bigger clubs? Will it stop clubs dreaming of a European Super League? And what would they tweak about the format? The team unpick the league phase of the competition. Plus, with the transfer window just days from closing, what are the possible moves to keep an eye on?TIMECODES 0 mins – Intro – what TV shows are the team watching right now? 1 min – what did they all make of the new league phase now that it has finished? 8 mins – was there enough drama and jeopardy? 15 mins – Rafa explains why he likes the new format when set against the prospect of a European Super League. 19 mins – Rafa discusses why it has been popular in Germany. 21 mins – why Lille really impressed. 24 mins – the bracket – what it is and how it all looks going forward. 26 mins – the success – or not - of the Serie A clubs so far. 30 mins – transfer section, including Mathys Tel, Ewan Ferguson and Antony – and why strikers might dominate the next few days.Upcoming commentaries….. Saturday 1st February PREMIER LEAGUE: Bournemouth v Liverpool 1500 KO – 5 Live PREMIER LEAGUE: Wolves v Aston Villa 1730 KO – Starts on Sports Extra and moves to 5 Live for Second Half Sunday 2ND February WOMENS SUPER LEAGUE: Manchester City v Arsenal 1200 KO – Sports Extra PREMIER LEAGUE: Manchester United v Crystal Palace 1400 KO – 5 Live PREMIER LEAGUE: Brentford v Spurs 1400 KO – Sports Extra PREMIER LEAGUE: Arsenal v Man City 1630 KO – 5 Live WOMENS SUPER LEAGUE: Tottenham v Manchester United 1845 KO – Sports Extra

BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is Five Live Sports. The Euroleagues with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello there, welcome to the Euroleagues on the Football Daily Podcast. Guillaume Balaguet is here. Hi, Guillaume. Hello, Steve, how are you? Hello, I'm very good, thank you.

We've got James Horncastle, who appears to be sort of, he looks like, for anyone who's watching, severance at the minute. He sort of looks like he's shut in one of the admin closets there. Are you okay? Do you need help? Yeah, I'm here to collect my things in a small cardboard box

and I will be leaving the premises very soon. Raphael Honigstein's got severance written all over him. He is across all of that. Come on now. I haven't seen it, actually. Come on, Raph. I'm so sorry.

What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm on Mr. and Mrs. Smith at the moment. Oh, OK. That's a bit lowbrow for you, isn't it? No, no, it's great. OK. Yeah, really good.

Anyone want to mention anything on iPlayer? We probably should do that. Anything? Anyone watching anything? Yeah, I actually have been catching up on Industry. Well done. Oh, really good. Anyone want to mention anything on iPlayer? We probably should do that. Anything? Anyone watching anything? Yeah, I actually have been catching up on industry. Well done. Now that is great stuff. That is great stuff.

Hopefully this won't be too much hard work on the Euroleagues today because we've basically got two things to do. At some point we'll do transfers. We're going to spend most of the podcast reviewing the first ever Champions League phase. I just thought we would try and break it down into segments, whilst at the same time sort of accepting this will end up blurring into one big conversation, and that is absolutely fine.

So we'll get into things like the big teams struggling, in inverted commas, and we'll do the underdog stories. We'll look at some of the potential playoff ties, some of the potential last 16 ties. And I guess at some point we'll talk about how satisfied we think UEFA are likely to be with it. First up, general thoughts, guys. Guillaume, good, bad? Did you enjoy it? Did you not enjoy it?

I was at Villa Park yesterday with two teams that had qualified and the night was electric. There was a lot of Celtic fans and they enjoying themselves and the excitement of getting to the top four at the end. Everybody was on their phones trying to find out what the position was. Top eight. I don't know how every webpage managed to have a system

by which a goal goes in and the whole league table gets all updated and it was all very exciting. So yes, I'm a big fan of the whole thing as I was from the beginning. league table gets all updated and it's all very exciting so yes I'm a big fan of the whole thing as I was from the beginning if I

if somebody goes and says let's change things I'd be a big fan and I know football generally goes completely the other way

but what if it was the Euroleagues still I think there were one or two that were like you know

leave it as it is you know what some things are just better this if it ain't broke don't fix it you know, leave it as it is. Do you know what? Some things are just better this way. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, you know, sometimes. That's the most conservative way of thinking about life. And by the way, it was a little bit broke. You should hear Florentino Pereira talking about it.

And I think he's right. Okay. A big thumbs up from Guillaume, James. What about you? I still don't really know how to feel about it. You know, I think as we all have had the experience of being sort of in stadium for it and in studio for it. And I think it's two different reactions. I mean, you know, I go back to, for example, sort of match day one, being at San Siro for AC Milan against Liverpool, which on paper was a big game, but it felt very early in the season

and early in this competition, which had two more games added onto it and sort of the finish of the group or the league phase at the end of January still felt a long way off. So people didn't really know, should I be going to this game? You know, tickets are expensive and all this sort of thing.

And then gradually as the kind of the league phase went on, there were lots of kind of fun things that happened, you know, be it sort of, you know, Brest being in the top eight. And then, you know, sort of the middling crises of some big clubs, be it, you know, sort of Madrid losing to Lille, be it City, that kind of was all played out in the most dramatic fashion, I think, in the Champions League.

I went into last night thinking I was really excited. And then I came away from it thinking, you know, we've been sold this kind of illusion of jeopardy. There was some jeopardy last night, but it was very limited, you know, in terms of, you know, two teams that were in the top eight at the beginning of the night, you know, dropped out. You know, so Villa and Lille took the places of Atalanta and AC Milan. And only one team jumped out of the elimination zone

into the kind of playoff thing, and only one team jumped out of the elimination zone into the kind of playoff thing, and that was Man City. I still don't really know how I feel about it. So you've got one good, one conflicted, Raph. Yeah, I'm with James. I'm kind of conflicted. Let's start with the positives. I think the variety is really refreshing. You get to see teams, you get to go to places, if you're lucky enough, that just otherwise wouldn't be on the agenda. And it just feels a little bit more relaxed, because not every game is do or die. And I think as a fan, and maybe even as a player, it's perhaps slightly more enjoyable than usual. The problem I had last night is that I expected

lots of drama, and it didn't really happen. And I and it didn't really happen and I think it didn't really happen for two reasons one is because after well after seven games the difference in in points and goal difference unlike let's say at the Euros or the World Cup where you know it's it's between winning the group or suddenly you're going home and every goal changes absolutely everything the changes were sort of oh I'm seventh but now I'm 11th oh no I'm going from 11th to 9th and oh no somebody else has scored a goal so I'm 10th again and ultimately it left me a little bit flat but there's a bigger issue and I tried to work it out what it was and I think it came to me this morning on the school run there's always a good time to think the jeopardy involved for all but one club

that has a serious aspiration to go through because 16 out of the 18 top seeds went went through the jeopardy that most clubs faced or. The jeopardy that most clubs faced, or the only jeopardy that most clubs faced, was not making the top eight. And you're thinking, okay, not making the top eight is a big headache. You've got an extra game. It's really annoying.

But as a fan, if the worst that can happen to my team is a game in the Champions League against Real Madrid that otherwise wouldn't be played or against Manchester City or you take any other team it doesn't feel particularly

like a big punishment as a fan I love to see games I can understand the argument that players are tired and maybe it's better for our chances in the league or even in the Champions League if we don't play the extra game. But I'm watching my team to play games,

not to avoid to play games. I want to see as many games as possible with my team. I'm sure lots of fans feel the same. Not surprised. It's a brainy explanation from Raphael Honigstein

about the whole thing. But I go back to emotions and it just felt that every game mattered, even to teams that were completely out of the competition. Being Girona, for instance. Girona filled the stadium. Okay, it's not that difficult to fill the stadium of Girona

when they're actually taking 5,000 seats away from you. But it was exciting to meet Arsenal. I've already mentioned Villapark, but I imagine in, you know, in Brest it was the same. Manchester City obviously had to play for something and one of the reasons why this competition is a little bit longer is for these things not to happen, for big teams to actually

qualify. But it did feel that things were happening. A special European night that has a different atmosphere, a different colour, a different smell. Players love it and the stats prove it. You ask to any team in the competition and they will tell you that the players run a little bit more

in Champions League nights. They fight a little bit more. There's more intensive runs, etc. Managers loved it. I spoke to two only yesterday, but Brendan Rodgers was so happy. Even though having been defeated, the defeat didn't mean so much, but it was another experience for him and his team against a top side.

And I know that many people focus on the big clubs. Wow, too many games, Ancelotti said. He doesn't like the format. It's just too much for his team. But the other sides, apart from the three or four top sides that would like to play 10 games less, it was just great. So I have a question about drama and jeopardy

because I found it really interesting that quite a bit of the stuff I've read today sort of implied that it wasn't that dramatic because ultimately all of the big teams went through. And maybe that's true, but to me it made me think, like if I'm watching Novak Djokovic in the first round of a Grand Slam

and he loses the first two sets and he comes back to winning five, that's still incredibly dramatic. Just because the guy who you all thought should win does win doesn't mean that the rest of the process wasn't valid and wasn't interesting and wasn't entertaining so just on your point raf around manchester city sitting here in the in the studio at five live yesterday to me it felt like there was a lot of jeopardy because they went one nil

down if you review it after 90 minutes it doesn't necessarily feel that way but in the moment it was there wasn't it oh yeah for sure for them yes but you know there were 35 other teams involved um and there wasn't enough across the board then no that's my point the difference between getting knocked out and making it was relevant to i think only two or three teams on the night. Everyone else was playing for a position to be already through. And I think that is not a lot for so many teams being involved. And ultimately, that last particular night,

I think, left me a little bit wanting almost the old drama of the last match day when, of course, you would get it only maybe in two groups out of four on the night. But then it was genuine. You go from going through to getting knocked out because somebody else has scored a goal, because you scored a goal. We didn't really have those moments.

And in principle, I would say I'm for it. I think it needed a freshening up. I think it's a good idea. I think a lot of stuff works, but it doesn't quite do what it was supposed to say on the tin, which is to deliver all this amazing drama on the last day. Let me just add one thing. I mean, we're saying that the teams love it,

or the clubs love it because there's more money, first of all. The players love it because there's more opportunities to be in the biggest stage. The managers, yes, because perhaps the games don't mean as much as Rafi has explained. But in terms of the fans, I calculated that 12 out of the 18 games of this week and the previous one, there are three or more goals per game.

That's good spectacle, I say. Well, if you look out if you look at going into the final match day there were on average more goals per game I think it was like

from it was something like 3.22 goals per game against 2.98 now are goals a measure of entertainment

usually when there are lots of goals we're having lots of fun it gives us more things to talk about and that sort of thing but but you could leave it there if you want to i could so so but it depends on it depends on your what you find entertaining yeah and so like for example people will hold up like benfica Barcelona last week it's just like a a really fun spectacle but it wasn't the best football um you know it was five four it was kind of it was like slapstick comedy for a lot of it because there were what three penalties and own goal and you know true

not that a good spectacle you chose the wrong game no. No, no, but like it depends what we want really. Do we want the Champions League still to be the place where there is the best quality? But James, Barcelona could have played Benfica in any Champions League in any season, couldn't they? No, but so I suppose my broader point is here is that the Champions League, this year it's the same but different okay yeah a lot of the emotions we're talking about were there before um but it's just configured in

different ways and so i think whenever you you get together you know so much variety as rafa was talking about you put it together that's what makes I think the Champions League different from our domestic competitions. But I ultimately feel that to go back to Rafa's point about too many teams playing for a different position when they've already qualified, the safety net for the big clubs in particular, it's got vaster now. There was a time, for example, when you had Dortmund, Napoli and Marseille and Arsenal in the same group. Arsenal, Dortmund and Napoli all finished on 12 points.

And Napoli went into the Europa League because they had sort of inferior head-to-head goal difference with one of those teams. And the mechanism to compensate for that, was to go into the Europa League. Now the mechanism is, okay, you go into this playoff round. I look at how some teams have kind of qualified in this.

Like, you know, for example, City are through because they played Slovan Bratislava, Sparta Prague and Bruges. They're the teams that they've beaten. And that's enough for them. That's enough for them to even qualify. That's enough for them to qualify. that's enough for them to qualify. That's why they did this competition this way,

to protect the big games, the big teams. Yeah, I get it. I get it, Guillaume, but I just think it doesn't make it more entertaining. It doesn't make it better. It's the same as it was. For the big guys or for the small guys that have got more opportunity to play bigger games.

It's depending how you see it. I just see it. It is, but I think... Champions League is great and there's more of it now. With very few exceptions, you know, sort of Brest, for example,

you could say, you know, Celtic, Bruges, maybe even Sporting. The teams you'd expect to go out went out. To perhaps conclude, at least to conclude from my point i think ultimately that the biggest reason why this format is positive and is a good thing is because it was the only way to stave off a super league yeah and that's why i will

support it and i think it was probably the best compromise that UEFA could make with a gun to their chest. Thinking we have to somehow come up with a format that gives more games, more protection to the big teams, but at the same time still keep it open for the smaller sides.

And that was the only way to do it and I think they did it quite brilliantly. Whether it improves the product in a sort of abstract sense, I'm not 100% sure. The Super League is coming. We're going to see it.

But never mind. With 3-0 up, Real Madrid could have scored two more goals and avoided the draw that they've got in now. It could have gone Sporting Portugal, Bruges,

Aston Villa a little. And instead of going for the goals, they just gave some minutes to Alaba, gave some minutes to Hendrik, replaced an offensive full-back, Lucas, for a defensive one in Asensio. Didn't realise what was going on. It was surprising to see.

There was nobody on the bench saying, Carlo, that's not the way. But maybe, yeah. I mean, they would have to be pretty on it. I mean, if I was a player on that pitch and there were the number of changes that I had to deal with sitting in this studio, Carlo would have been up every 10 seconds like, guys, guys, go for the goal.

Now defend. No, now go the other way. It was crazy. They've got 26 assistants. Crikey. You can dedicate one to do that for the game. I mean, I couldn't do it for myself, but fair point. I just want to pick up on what Raf was saying there, James,

actually about, because I don't like the idea of seeing this only through the lens of the big clubs, but this is a very pertinent point. We know why this was created. It was to try and satisfy these big clubs so that they won't end up trying to break away again. Whether or not that's successful is another matter. But I think the question that we can ask now,

because we've finished the league phase of the Champions League, is do you think it will have succeeded in satisfying those big clubs to the extent that UEFA need it to? Yeah, I mean, look, Guillaume says that the Super League is coming anyway and we've seen some of the new proposals by A22. Speaking to

some of the big Italian clubs over the last day, last 24 hours, they're very happy with it in terms of it delivering more money. I think the one logistical and commercial thing that they were struggling with is that the gap between the draw

and the first match day and the draw and the first playoff round is really short in terms of allowing you to come up with a kind of, I don't know, dynamic pricing strategy and allowing your sort of fans to basically get themselves organised in order to come to these games. Because, you know, some of those early matchday one games,

they weren't sellouts. But apart from that, you know, I think it depends in what position you're in. You know, ultimately, it's guaranteed more money for every club. And we've seen some of the big clubs still be able to rotate effectively in this competition. As much as there's this feeling that every game matters. Simone Inzaghi, for example,

who went into, you know, practically rotated in every game in this competition and felt he was able to do so. And so even though you have those two extra games, you can still effectively manage a squad throughout it. I mean, from a German perspective, I think it's been very, very successful. The German clubs have never been on board with the Super League. The fact that two

out of five German clubs got knocked out in a strange way also enhances the cachet, the status of the competition. They couldn't make it. Stuttgart got very unlucky with 10 points. I think they did 10 million simulations on KI

and 99% said the 10 points would be enough. It wasn't enough for them. Leipzig, of course, huge embarrassment to get knocked out, having been a regular in the knockout stages for many years now. So I think in that sense, it's worked from a German point of view. And I don't know know to Guillaume's point I don't know if anything UEFA will do will ever satisfy certain clubs because for them it's clearly not about the format it's about the three percent that UEFA take out of the game for themselves and they want it all themselves and that's the only reason why the Super League is being pushed. The format that they propose keeps changing. I think the latest I've seen was it's 100 games all

streamed on YouTube for free. It sounds riveting but there is no format that they can ever come up with that will be enough for Real Madrid, Barcelona and maybe one or two of the Italian teams because it's not about the format it's about the money does anyone else just love it when Raphael Honigstein delivers sass it's my favorite thing on the football daily podcast the euro leagues with Steve Crossman listen on BBC

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On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. Right, forget these big clubs. Forget the biggest of the big. Let's talk about some of the really nice stories that we got. And you know how we were discussing before,

you know, especially with someone like Manchester City, it's not just where they finish, it's the teams that they beat that got them there. Well, let's just talk a bit about the team that over the course of their Champions League league phase had to play Real Madrid, had to play Atletico Madrid, played Juventus and played Liverpool.

And despite that fact, Lille managed to finish seventh and go through automatically. Are they, Guillaume, the biggest overachiever, the most impressive team in this Champions League league phase? Yeah, possibly they are. Can we put them in the same bracket as Brest,

who have got the smallest budget in the Champions League and yet managed to make a party out of everything? They were out of their stadium. They found out, like many other sides, how to evolve in the competition to make something out of it. And I think, yeah, they both should be considered that. A success of the format, put it in another way. James?

Yeah, I think Lille deserve the accolade because they changed coach in the summer and it wasn't of their choosing. Paolo Fonseca decided to go and work for AC Milan for what turned out to be four months. Lenny Joro ended up going to

Manchester United. It's a team that has been broken up, rebuilt, broken up, rebuilt over and over again. And that's really difficult to basically come back and put a season like this together, even though they perhaps hung on to players

like Jonathan David longer than they might have expected. David and a couple of others didn't start last night, you know, because they were worried about the players being on yellow cards and then

missing um the the next round the buy um but yeah i think you know to be honest liga has probably been the surprising julian's not here i mean liga has been the probably the most surprising of the there's a bbc show without julian yeah i know that is surprising true don't worry don't worry he was he was on the uh the champions league match of the day james don't worry guys it is surprising it's true don't worry he was on the Champions League match of the day James don't worry guys

it's fine he was on the other thing that I would say is that while it's not a surprise to me at least

that Leverkusen made the top 8 because they kept Xabi Alonso and they're the Bundesliga champions they weren't in the Champions League

last year same with Atalanta ok Atalanta have had Champions League experience over the last few years they weren't in the Champions League last year. Same with Atalanta. Okay, Atalanta have had Champions League experience over the last few years, but they were in the Europa League last year. Lille were not in the Champions League last year. And Villa were not in the Champions League last year. So to see four teams that weren't in the Champions League

last year be in the top eight, I think is impressive. The surprise to me, I suppose, the biggest surprise to me is that there weren't four English teams in the top eight given the wealth gap between English teams and the rest. Can we just have a little look at the bracket now? And I love that I get to say that

because here's the thing, I love American sports and I really enjoy Major League Soccer and I like the concept of the playoffs. I wouldn't ever have it in the Premier League. I think it would be ridiculous and actually the whole Manchester City thing that we've discussed fits into that, the idea that a team can finish way down the league

and still be in contention to be crowned the best team of that season. So I get all that, but just Raph putting that to one side and I know we've got the draw on Friday which could change things around a little bit but having a bracket to look at and just now being able to think well we could get a Bayern Munich by a Leverkusen round of 16 tie or we could get you know we could get Juve versus Milan for the right to face Inter these

are great things just to be able to kind of look at and possibly look forward to and be excited about, I think. Yeah, I think this is part of the format that really works, that you can, even if you can't quite figure it out yet, as Kiem said, have some influence on your chances of going through by really going for it in the last game or perhaps looking back, trying to maximise and score more goals and give yourself a better chance, at least on paper.

I think that is a good thing. I found out today that there's a reason why there's a draw that goes beyond UEFA wanting everyone in neon for another sort of shindig. It's to do with the fact that you don't want teams to really work out whether it's better to play the ninth or tenth and then maybe concede a goal in the last minute. Of course. So you need a bit of variability or unpredictability to keep the game or to keep the competition

a bit more honest in that sense. That's why they're doing it. But I think it's a, by and large, I think it's a great idea. I really like it. Let me just go back to one thing that has happened here. When you were talking about AC Milan and Inter Milan meeting, and perhaps even meeting Juventus next,

you're talking about big teams meeting each other in the Champions League. Isn't that the most exciting thing? Should we do that more often? To be fair, by the time we get to the round of 16, you would imagine that the big teams are going to be playing each other anyway. I know what you mean. To be fair, by the time we get to the round of 16, you would imagine that the big teams are going to be playing each other anyway. But I know what you mean.

To be honest. It feels like Guillaume is again propositioning a Super League. Yeah. James, I do think Serie A comes out of this really well, actually, when you look at the bracket, because it's not just the fact that you've got kind of three teams within that knockout round and round of 16 tie. It's actually, if you look at a bit further down or up the draw,

depending on the draw on Friday, Atalanta, Dortmund, Bruges, Sporting are in the same playoff block for the right to play Aston Villa or Lille, depending on how it goes. So actually there is a possibility there for a run to the quarterfinal for a bit of a surprise package. And that could easily be Atalanta actually looking at that. Yeah, although I don't think Atalanta class is a surprise package anymore,

just by dint of them being around these positions for the last seven or eight years and being the Europa League winners. And ultimately, like AC Milan, they were in the top eight going into the final match day. And the only reason they didn't get it is because they drew in Barcelona. I mean, if you put that in perspective seven or eight years ago,

you say Barcelona, a point away to Barcelona is considered a disappointment for Atalanta. It shows you how far they've come. And yeah, they really could have been even higher in the top eight or in the top eight at all if Rateghi scores the penalty against Arsenal, if Rateghi scores from six inches out against Real Madrid in stoppage time. So, yeah, it has been good for the attack. I think this, even though we're talking about the bracket, we're sort of maybe drifting into that conversation that we often have in the last couple of years

in the Champions League about the right side of the draw. Well, we won't know that for ages, will we? Because we don't get the draw for the last 16 teams until the playoff round is finished. No, but we're already kind of plotting. Yes. Oh, I love a plot. I love a plot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yes, you're right, Steve, but there is still that kind of... People are looking at it, for example, and saying,

what is the reward for Liverpool and Barcelona for finishing first and second, it might mean that they get PSG. That has just been a quirk of the Champions League, even in the group stages, in the old format. Because, for example, I seem to remember last year one of the stories of the group stage was Real Sociedad. Real Sociedad topped their group

and their reward in the round of 16 was the team that had finished second in another group, Paris Saint-Germain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree with the overall point from Rafa about it was in need of freshening up and ultimately to stay off the Super League, this is what we should never lose sight of.

But I think it's the same but different. I think some of these emotions that we've had over the last few weeks, last few months, are not necessarily tied to the format change. It's just how we've always felt, really, about the Champions League and what kind of emotions the Champions League drives anyway. Let's do a little bit of transfer chat before we before we wrap up the Euroleagues. Just interested from all of you, really, as simple as what you've got your eyes on. I'll just do the time check. It's ten past five on Thursday, the 30th of January.

So stuff may happen by the time you listen to this. I think the key thing is, Raph, I don't want to put any ideas in your head. Just tell me, just tell me about anyone you want to tell me about. What is the Matisse with you? I mean, why are you repeating that same... Because I had all day to plan this

and you were just like that. Yeah, Matisse Tell is a hot property, a young French forward who started his career by really scoring lots of exciting goals and everyone loves him. And he's somebody who really identifies with the clubs. He's a sort of very rare pro who on his off day

goes and watches the under-19s play. So people love him. But he's fallen out of favor with Vincent Kompany and while he started yesterday against Bratislava he has rarely been a starter I think he's only started two games all season or at least in recent months and he now has by Bayern's account, changed his mind and said, I want to go. Probably on loan initially, but maybe with an option to Bayern. A lot of Premier clubs interested

and I think one of them is Spurs. Who do you have your eye on, Guillaume? What's on your radar? You know, if you're talking about La Liga, there is absolutely nothing happening. The biggest thing has happened already, Anthony arriving to Betis. Why?

That's about it. To both of those things. Yeah. Well, Anthony was good at Ajax, which means that he's seen as a massive signing for Betis, even though it's until the end of the season with no option to buy. But welcome by all the players at Betis and seen as a big jump of quality. If he's just half of what he was at Ajax, and Ajax won the league and played really exciting football, then it would be good for Betis.

But the money that's been used has been very carefully used. And basically, every team is looking for bargains right at the end of the market and you don't get big names as part of bargains and then of course the three big sides are not involved in the market at all Atletico Madrid not looking for anything Barcelona there is the story about Rashford that has kept us going then you know they needed to link themselves to a big name. So it kept us going, but there is nothing much behind it. And Dramadid is the same. They're not saying anybody. So it's all not very exciting at the moment.

James, definitely interested in a bit of Dorgu, Patrick Dorgu going to Manchester United. So give us a flavour for what he might bring to them. And also, if there's any other stories that you're following, do tell. Well, I mean, he would bring Lecce an incredible profit because he was signed for only 200 grand a couple of years ago by Panteleo Cordovino, the sporting director there. Yeah, Dorgou is a very versatile player.

You know, someone who's very athletic, very keen learner, someone who can play on both sides, left back, right back, left wing, right wing. I think only Kenan Yildiz, the Juventus number 10, has scored more goals for a player his age. You know, they're still teenagers. So that's impressive.

And then I suppose looking around Europe, Raf's talked about Matis Tell. It feels like there are a lot of strikers, people who are in the market for strikers, you know, be it, you know, is Marcus Rashford, whether you class him as a striker or not, is he going to stay at Man United? Is he going to go?

Evan Ferguson seems to be, you know, every club in the Premier League, every club in Europe seems to be interested in taking him on loan. Morata, is Morata moving out of AC Milan in his January transfer window? They look for a different number nine. So, yeah, it's nine time on deadline. Before we go,

we've got a question from the Commentators View podcast, guys, which you may have heard of. They were asking about the term nutmeg. They got an email from a listener in Jamaica who said that over there they call a nutmeg a salad, which I've never heard before. The classic is tunnel, isn't it? Tunnel. I mean, in Italian, yeah, you'd say falle un tunnel.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I seem to remember Jules. Jules used to love the French equivalent of this, which is petit pont, which is the little bridge. Is it as offensive in other countries as it is in this country as well? Like there is nothing, there are very few things more offensive for anyone playing football at any level than being nutmegged.

Yeah, it's a big thing. It's a big thing. In Spain, we call it caño, which comes from Argentinian Spanish. That means pipe or tube. And not just it's offensive, it's aimed, players aim to do it.

Maradona, the first thing he ever did as a professional player when he came on the pitch at Argentina Juniors was a nutmeg and already became a legend at Argentina Juniors. He, in fact, counted the nutmegs that he did in the first few years per season and wanted to challenge himself and do more and more and more of it. In Argentina, I would say that, more than in Spain,

but in Argentina, certainly, they count the number of nutmegs and it's perceived ahead of dribbling and just below scoring a goal. So it's that highly considered. Yeah, in German, it's the verb, really. It's tunnen. So you tunnel somebody. There is one for the connoisseurs

and it did happen. I did not just imagine it. Stefan Effenberg once nutmegged Roy Keane and learned to live the tale. No, live to learn. No, how do you say? Live to tell the tale.

That's the one. That's the one. Live to tell the tale. Oh my. Search that out on YouTube. I like the fact that it's only in english that we've got something which bears absolutely no resemblance to cockney rhyming slang no no i know yeah yeah

yeah i know it's cockney rhyming slam however it has absolutely nothing to do with literally the ball going through the legs right everything else is like it's a bridge or it's a pipe or it's a tunnel it kind of makes sense what because it's cockney rhy it's a pipe or it's a tunnel. It kind of makes sense. Well, because of Cockney rhyming slang. Oh, forget it. James, have you got a question for the commentators for you? I do. Good. Good, because that's what it says here in front of me.

This is for the commentators' view. You know, I would like to know, with the transfer window shutting soon, which new signing in the Premier League are you most excited about? Good question. Good question. Good question. So we're sending that via the medium of BBC Sounds to the Commentator's View podcast. We've run out of time.

That was a lot of fun. It was very, very interesting. Guillaume, Raph, James, thank you all very much. Cheers. Thank you. Excellent stuff. As always, thank you so much for listening. There will be a reaction to the final round of games

in the Europa League League phase later on BBC Sound. Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful British manager of all time. So how did this apprentice toolmaker from Glasgow become one of the most iconic figures in sporting history? His strength of character, his determination, the fight in him. Ferguson was every department. He can be persuasive, he can be charming, he can be frightening. Godin is the best, as simple as that.

I'm Kelly Cates, and this is Sporting Giants' Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to feel. I couldn't feel. Listen on BBC Sounds.