Football Daily - Euro Leagues: England’s Champions League dominance and Bayern the team to beat?

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

After another week where five of the six English sides won in the Champions League, Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Balague, Julien Laurens and Raphael Honigstein to discuss their dominance.We reflect on another impressive performance from Club Brugge in their 3-3 draw with Barcelona. Outside of England are Bayern the team to beat? They’re on a 16-game winning run after their 2-1 victory over PSG. Are Luis Enrique’s side starting to show cracks?Plus, Marcel van der Kraan joins the pod to discuss Ajax after they sacked John Heitinga with the club 8 points off the pace in Eredivisie and bottom of the Champions League table after a fourth European defeat in a row. Could Erik Ten Hag be the man to save their season? Timecodes: 01:59 – Club Brugge 3-3 Barcelona – Match of the week? 11:37 – Micky van de Ven’s goal – was it even that good? 13:15 – Are we at the start of a period of English Champions League dominance? 28:28 – Bayern the team to beat? 37:40 – Cracks showing at PSG? 44:40 – Ajax sack Heitinga

On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues with Steve Crosman. I sometimes dance along to the theme of the Euroleagues and then I realise that we're on YouTube now, aren't we? And I'm making a complete idiot of myself. Is that why you were looking at me like that, Raphael Honestine? No. Oh. I always look at you like that.

Okay, okay. Hey, Julianne. Hey, Guillain Ballagay. All right, hello. Hello, hello. I was going to describe. you as three absolute faithfuls. And if I did that, I feel like Raff will know what I'm talking about,

Jules will know what I'm talking about, and Guillaume will not have a clue. Is that accurate? 100%. You don't have the traitors in Spain, Guillem? No. No. Okay.

Well, listen, all I'll say is I play a later. Not now. Not now. In fact, if you're... No spoilers. No spoilers. Zero spoilers on the Euroleagues. You can enjoy the Euroleagues,

and then you can go in back and watch the Trailer. What I would say, Raff, if any of us had the look of one, you've sort of got a bit of an evil genius about you. I've always thought that. Is it because of the turtleneck and the white cat that I'm stroking underneath the microphone? That's exactly what it is. And the big red button, which nobody knows what it did. And the trap door underneath me in the studio.

All of those things coming together have made me feel that way. Yes, there will be no spoilers, fear not. Even if you're listening to this on the Football Daily podcast the following morning, you are safe but welcome to the Euroleagues we're going to talk about Bayern Munich's sensational form

we'll ask if cracks are beginning to show at Paris Saint-Germann we're going to talk about the Champions League's country protection rule and ask if it needs to be scrapped it will be more interesting

than it sounds I promise we'll also do before the end of the show what's gone wrong at Iax given we're about to dive into a discussion about competition rules I just thought we should start with something a bit more fun and talk about the match of the match week,

which for me is Club Bruges 3, Barcelona 3. Carlos Forbes got a couple of goals. Laminia Miles scored a lovely goal. Vojccic Chesney nearly gifted Bruges the win in the last minute. Was it a foul? What I think made me be happy with the decision in the end by the referee was that even the Bruce player didn't really complain so much after the goal was disallowed.

You could see Vermon's face. I think he knew... You've got to sell. It's better, though, haven't you? That's the thing. You've got to make it look like it was obviously a goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or maybe you're just honest, not like you.

No. I say, you know, so maybe you're not a faithful. Good, good. Well, I never am. I know Raffett kind of, to start with that, takes away from what was a beautiful game, but it did feel very, very dramatic and a little bit controversial.

Yes, although my knowledge of that game is very much secondhand because I had the pleasure of being at PhD Bay and. in the very same night listening to the updates from Bruges. But what I would say is that I think Club Bruch, who are a good side, have worked out how to score against Barcelona. And this is a phenomenon. Exactly.

This is a phenomenon that was very familiar to me. And I think I've mentioned this on the show a few times. In the second season at Bayern under Hansi Flick, every team had figured out how to beat the higher press and it was only the heroics of Manuel Neuer who made like an unbelievable amount of one-to-one saves that Byrne still managed to win the title but things were sort of beginning to fall apart

he didn't leave because of that I think the team was still happy with him most of the club was still happy with him of course he had this big fallout with a sporting director Hassan Salihamajic but it does look a little bit like the pattern might be repeating itself. Do you know what he looks like?

He's in a boat and the boat has got three or four holes and the water's coming in and he goes like, let's put a hand here and a hand there. Nothing's happening. Nothing is happening. And a bit like that in the press conference after the game. He was asked for the second time only about how permeable the defence of Barcelona is and the lack of intensity

and it just basically looks like the Barcelona last season is gone. And he just went on one. It was like, come on, I've just told you two answers before. Yeah, but that is the point of this Barcelona that's collapsing. If it wasn't for the genius of Lamine Jamal, who was absolutely brilliant again, and I think we're going to be a little bit, we're going to see a little bit, this up and downs from Lamine while he recovers fully from his growing injury.

What we saw was a team with a midfield that did not pass the ball or control the game enough. if you don't do that, a lot of passes and submit the opposition in their own half, in their own third, then when you lose the ball, you're exposed. And I started to think, looking around, some of the players are like, what we're doing, is this right?

And if you start outing, that's the end. And I think that's, is that probably what happened at Bayern that players fell exposed and started questioning what they were doing? A little bit, but I think it was more that they couldn't quite get it right anymore or the opposition had worked out how to do it.

The fact that they managed to win the title, the fact that they were a little bit unlucky against PSJ, of course, to get knocked out in the quarterfinals in a crazy set of games could have finished 6-677 PSJ just squeezed through when Lewandowski was injured and you had Tupamorting up front for buying and missing a lot of chances.

As I said, it wasn't that big of a talking point and the more political dimension of the problem came to the forefront and kind of deflected from that. But it is a similar scenario tactically that we saw, I think it's a mixture of a lack of freshness and opposition team figure things out and maybe the odd player saying,

you know what, do I really have to press like that crazily all the time? We're winning anyway, we're good, do we have to do this? all these things I've seen before. Also, Bruges were really good, Guillaume. Yes, but on that kind of way that Raff is describing, they had worked Barthona out. So in three passes, they could find themselves in a one-v-one with Chesney, who saved Barcelona a couple of times.

But it could have been worse. You have to say as well, I think they hit the post three times, Barcelona. And in the bigger picture, you have to say that Laminia Mal, Lewandowski, and Rafinia, who scored 90 goals last season, they basically only played together 200 minutes. Rafinia is injured. Lewandowski is going back. Lamine hasn't been 100%.

There is that. Also, the three of them work better at the pressure than certainly Rushford, Ferran and Lamin put together. So, yes, there are explanations of why this is happening, and we need a little bit more evidence to see if he's going to be impossible to turn it around. Obviously, Hansi Flick is convinced that he can, that he needs stronger midfielders

and perhaps they'll go in the market in January. But what he perhaps forgets is that Barcelona is actually taking value out of the side by getting rid of players that earned too much because they cannot afford them. So all that has got an effect. I think the Barcelona of last season is gone now. Jules, I was actually last night.

So when Carlos Forbes was scoring his first goal last night, I was actually playing football on the pitch that he played on when he was at secondary school. True story. Because he went to school near Manchester, well, kind of suburb of Manchester in Didsbury. And we got off the pitch. And my mate, who's a teacher, was like,

oh, one of my students has just scored against Barcelona. So he's got a great story, hasn't he? I wonder why he didn't make it at City. I know lots of kids don't, obviously. Yeah, I mean, I think, To make it a city, you need to be Philadelphia level, really. Even Copeland level was not enough.

And then it's funny then you go on loan, you go to different clubs, different leagues, different levels, and it just doesn't work out and it doesn't click. And then suddenly it clicks for you. And I think he fits perfectly the way Bruges are playing. He replaced Tybee who went to Sunderland, obviously, in the summer,

who is a highly rated winger. He's a different type of winger. But for what Nikki Hayden wants to do at Bruce, he's really perfect. You know, with Tolis on the other side, Tresoldi in the middle. Rafael is right. They've got a really good little team.

And last season already, they had a good team, and they pushed it here a little bit in the playoff tide. And I think they would do again. They'd be Vela last season in the league phase two at home, albeit with a strange goal. But still, they won that game. And Hamid Monaco, for example, on match, they're one of the Champions League again in their own stadium.

So I think they will finish top 24, and they will qualify for the playoffs. and it's a team that plays with a lot of intensity that I think in the end maybe lacks just a little bit of level and talent for the top clubs in Europe I know this was Barcelona but over two legs I would still fancy Barcelona to go through

if they had to play again on a knockout in a knockout stages but on the day they will cause trouble to any team yeah and just to mention of course that they did play against Bayern a team that often is seen as similar to Barcelona with a high line with lots of spaces that can be exploited

and they basically didn't have one chance and lost 4-0 that was two weeks ago or three weeks ago but I just wanted to mention one more thing because I managed I've reached the time of the week where I don't know what day it is the reason I didn't watch

I didn't want to tell you all days but yeah it was not the same night yeah the reason I did it was Man City Dortmund I was watching last night not PSJ Bayern that's why I missed a Bruch game but the rest of the start

I stick by. Nikki Hayen, the Bruges manager, is someone that I'm desperate for us to get on the EuroLeague. So I'm issuing an open challenge to produce a Mettin.

And there are many reasons he would be great to speak to. Obviously, he's doing a brilliant job at Bruges. Do any of you know which British club he used to manage? Can I Google it?

No, but then you would know, wouldn't you? The answer is Haverford West in the Welsh Premier. Nicky Hayen used to be the manager of Haverford West. So I think there will be so many amazing stories that we could get from him. So there you go, challenge issued.

He would be a lovely person to have on the EuroLeague. Jules, just before we move on, I've got to say, you watch too much football man. I mean, you are such an asset to this show. But the fact that I can just say, this obscure Bruges player, I wonder why he didn't make it. And you've effectively giving us a tactical breakdown of a team who were playing at the same time as PSG. I mean, fair play. But because I think the talent is really interesting. And you know, we often say on our show on Sunday as well,

on Premier League Sunday, at this level, there's no bad players. They have bad context for those players. And it's true. And sometimes you just need the right environment to shine or to explode or to get to the next level. And he's the prime example of it. And for you, that's been the Euroleagues. Right.

One of the moments of the match week, maybe the moment of the match week. Lemini-Miles goal was great. But was it better than Mickey Van der Vendez for Spurs as they'd be? Copenhagen when he kind of ran from one end of the pitch to the other coast to coast. I don't know. Is it mean spirited if I say

slightly facetiously that I don't think it was that good? What? I just don't think it was that good. You didn't think he had 500 decisions to be made from the moment he recovers the ball to the moment's coach. No, I don't think he had that. I think he had to beat

500 decisions to make. I think he had to beat one player. He had to beat one player. Everything else was just running in a straight line really fast. It's not a straight, straight line, because he goes, but he only has one thing. It never even looks up. No, it changes that. It changes pace at least twice when he sees that there is a gap.

It's not making decision. Changing pace is not, you just accelerate. You don't have to look around to see who's coming in. It's a good idea to keep continuing going. If actually you have to finish or you have to pass, there's a lot of decisions. He's never passing the ball. He's never even looking for an option. He goes straight in, he sees the space in front of him.

He goes, what's incredible is the pace that he goes with his height and size. And we know he's the quickest player in the Premier League. It's that nobody trip him, get a yellow card. It doesn't matter so much. If you're a Copenhagen player, just stop him on the halfway line. But for him to just go like that, and he said after the game in his interview, he just saw space and he just ran into it. And that's it.

There was nothing else to think about, really. But the finish, after running 84 yards, is pretty special for a centreback. For the second time in this season's Champions League, five of the six Premier League sides have all won on the same match week. So that's Arsenal in Prague, Liverpool beating Rail Madrid, city beating Dortmund, wins for Newcastle over Athletic Bilbao and Spurs over Copenhagen. Given this is the Euroleagues, we're very much looking at this through a continental lens.

There's nothing new in other leagues feeling overpowered. And equally, Guillaume, I'm kind of just reminding myself of the fact that it's only a couple of seasons ago that English clubs did really badly in Europe and didn't get the fifth Champions League place. But do you think there is something more marked right now about the kind of dominance that all of the other countries would love,

but some would say the Premier League enjoys? The gap is now very big. And generally you wait for five, if at 10 seasons, to come out with a conclusion. But it's now a subjective and an objective feeling that you've got when you watch, for instance, an English side against a Spanish side. They met seven times, six wins for England, one for La Liga, 16 goals against four. Those kinds of performances where Newcastle clearly beats the Club or Real Madrid

are unable to match the physicality and the pace of Liverpool, suggest that the good decisions be made at the Premier League level, using the money they've got, which, for instance, has, you know, spent in the summer more than the major four leagues combined in the summer. But generally, through television, they get more than double what the league gets. And the numbers have been clear financially. But the good decisions have also been made at office level. They've got really good directors of football, really good CEOs, really good commercial directors, and all that has at some point mean that the Premier League takes off. It's not just the financial reasons. It's actually the good people that are taking the

decisions. And that is now an obvious, it's such an obvious thing that Valverde wouldn't be asked about it after being beaten by Newcastle, but privately would say, wow, there are another level. physicality the 50-50s even the layers of the teams with very good coaches they're not just simple teams that go one or two tactics it's much more than that which suggests that you know

should be five English sites in the quarters and three in the semis and with the permission of Bayern or perhaps PSG they should be finalists or close to it so we are starting have started have started anywhere I think I largely agree with

Guillaume's analysis of the overall picture, but I disagree with the conclusions. I think that for all the money, you look at the championship sides, and I don't think anyone will say that Chelsea, Newcastle or Spurs are serious contenders to win this competition. Maybe not even Liverpool, although they had a good result, but as a team are not clicking at the moment. City, of course, as long as Guardiola is there, will always be among the contenders. Also, let's look at the last 15 years. How many English teams have won the champion seek in 15 years

for for the money has been there yeah but a new error it's easy to say it's a new error but it hasn't happened yet and I don't think it will happen yet despite all the stuff

that I agree with you better decisions is because you don't have the stability so the drawback of the Premier League's wealth of money and talent is that with the exception of city and Liverpool right now I don't think there's any team

in the Premier League that knows that next year they're again in the Champions League and that really undermines their competitiveness in the long run. Chelsea don't know if they're going to be in the Champions League again next year. Newcastle don't know. It doesn't look like at the moment. Spurs Not sure. And that's even with five places.

And when we saw the Premier League really make a big breakthrough in Europe, it happened at a time when he had real stability in the top four. You remember, I think it was four or five years when no one could qualify for the Champions League that wasn't Benitez, Chelsea, Ferguson's United

and Asson Venger. And without that stability, without that crazy competition that they have domestically to even qualify, I think it's very hard for these teams to dominate because you don't get the time to develop at Champions League level.

And next year you could have Bournemouth and Sunderland and team. teams that will also not win the championship because they're not ready for it. So yes, lots of money, yes, better decisions, great teams, but the internal competitiveness, I think, will work against them when it comes to playing in Europe in the championship. I think the thing as well is that the other leagues are not improving enough. If you want to really play that kind of game of how far are we from the level of the Premier League,

it's not a good season in Italy. I mean, Charinoglu is the best player in Syria so far this season. This is ridiculous. They don't score goals. They don't have number nine to score goals. In Spain, okay, there's bars and run Madrid, and they're pushing each other. But we saw Villarreal losing to Parfos this midweek in Champions League. They're the third best team in La Liga.

In Germany, Bayern and company doing an incredible job. Behind that, we saw Bioleucus and Sacking 10 Hague after two games. And to be able to try to compete with the Premier League, really. You need to have everything right, the good signings. your academics to be good you're the right managers on your benches all that kind of stuff

and all the leagues are just not there right now whereas the primary league because it's the money it's okay if maybe you don't have the right manager for one season because you are so much more powerful

than anybody else so much richer so it's okay but the other leagues should really improve more they should be a better level last season already was maybe not so good

but this season I think it's even worse for the others so if the others are not at their best then of course the gap with the Premier League is going to get bigger and bigger even if I also agree with Ralph

I think both Guillem and Ralph made very good valid points but I'm just to be disappointed by the levels of the rest really that's the thing maybe they should get together and form a Super League then that would solve all problems

solve all of the problems no Guillem I think it's fascinating and there's a myriad of kind of different aspects to it equally could you could you look at a lot of individual clubs and probably Barcelona is the best example and say, well, Premier League spending

is not the reason why you don't look like winning the Champions League. There are clubs of which they'd be toward the top of the list who have loads of self-inflicted problems which have got absolutely nothing to do with the Premier League, no? Don't they? The race to actually get a lot of money

from Barcelona and Madrid have to do with the Premier League. And it's obvious that Real Madrid have chosen a way of playing that has to do with matching the Premier League is the reference. But it happens sometimes. There are waves where the reference is the Spanish League or the French League or the Italian League. Now, right now, you want to equal and match what the Premier League are doing at all levels.

Not only, you know, coaches are looking at evolution of football through what, I don't know, what they were doing. But sorry, in what way is Sharby Alonso sitting, okay, what are. have to do this year with this Real Madrid is to play like the Premier League. The choice of having Chavez Alonso, that is somebody that allows you structure and stability and growth through it

has to do with two things. One, the trend and the trend that has been set by the Premier League. That's how the big clubs are playing. That's how city are playing and Arsenal and Chelsea and Astonville, etc. And two, Ramadira felt that they cannot match

economically and in the market, the Premier League. So is there any other way that we can match them. It's like, all right, we'll go and get young players and see if they work. But secondly, let's try to have a structure, something that gives you stability every year to challenge them. So, of course, the Champions League is the target for them, as always been and will always be the biggest one. And to keep winning it, so Florentino Perth can still say is the best club in 21st century, you have to match at least on the pitch and off the pitch at Premier League, the other way that everybody is match. And it is trying to see how

they sell their product. And it doesn't matter, you know, even by taking games abroad, it's just not enough to catch them. So you have to be creative. And yes, that sharps and the tools allows us, as Jules was saying, to bring young players through and see what happens, give our opportunities to young coaches and see what happens. But we are falling behind.

But Rail Madrid and Barcelona still have access to lots and lots of players who will always want to go there rather than the Premier League. By paying less. Because they have an aura. Yes, that is that. How many more could you, I mean, these people, for instance, the trends, the Rashford's, the Jude Bellingham, they were brought up with the championship and Spanish football and Barcelona and Madrid being powerful and dominating.

If that stops, will the next generation want to be to Rehamed it and Barcelona? Maybe yes, because... Well, it's already stopped for Barcelona, and the answer to that question is still yes at the moment, isn't it? Barcelona haven't been a dominant European force for ages. They certainly sell very well their story. They had a great narrative, but they cannot match the money

and they can perhaps still convince from Madrid that the Mbapest, but the next line of players, they will go for the money to the Premier League. It's happening. They're already there. What will it look like then, Guillem, in, I think this is quite a nice place to finish it.

Let's fast forward 10 years, all right? And if the image that you're kind of concerned about comes to pass, what do you think the top of European football will look like? First of all, it doesn't concern me. I'll enjoy the Premier League domination. It'd be fun. There's a lot of friends. But you're concerned about the competitiveness, aren't you?

Not concerned about English teams doing well, yeah. Exactly. And in 10 years' time, perhaps somebody's convinced somebody else to actually have a wage cap. which I know the trade unions don't like, but they may just find a way to actually balance things out. Perhaps you could get in a group of stages teams from the same nation to play against each other

and then drop points that way and perhaps you have been knocked out. There must be some changes that if this continues, that it will just sharpen everybody to say, okay, can we do things a little bit different with the opposition, of course, of the Premier League, the Super League of Europe. I have a point around that country protection thing

just to kind of throw to the group because I think Raffett is a very valid point if we were in the old Champions League. I just wonder with the new Champions League format there are so many opportunities to pick up points that even if you took country protection out of it, would it make a big difference to competitive balance and equally would it have an impact on the mistake?

and enjoyment of the competition if you just turn on to listen to Arsenal Spurs again? Yes to the second question, no to the first. I don't think if you make one out of eight games City against Spurs

that is going to change anything because if they're so good that they're beating everyone else and there's just absolutely no chance that anyone can get any points of them then 21 points will still be enough of course to finish in the top eight. And the second part, I think, is more important.

You play the Champions League, at least in the early stages, because you want to play different teams. You don't want to play your local teams again and have in September, you know, Men's City playing Men United in the league and then a week later in the Champions League, in a group game that doesn't really decide anything. It would take away from the whole idea of the Champions League, which is about different countries meeting each other,

people traveling to different places. And I think broadcasters would hate it. And I think fans would also be very excited. I don't see that as a way forward. Jules? Yeah, 100% agree with Ruffie. Okay. Can we finish with a bit on the format, by the way?

Because it just got me thinking, Guillem, when you were talking about that as an idea. I've realized something this season. And that's that I really like the format, and I wasn't expecting to. I'll tell you for why, these games don't really matter in the round when it comes to who qualifies. Tell Ajax and Benfica. Well, hold on. Hold on. Right. But some of the individual games are great. And I think there is an argument that that is okay. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can enjoy watching these two teams play a competitive game and think that was a great game. And I'm not sure I need it to be the defining reason as to whether one of them, qualifies or not, if that makes sense.

Put the tape of when we first discussed this. I think only Jules agree with me, but it was this idea that more games against good sides is better for the competition. And the reaction from many, including some Steve Crosman, was like, no, no, no, you know, it's going to be more boring because there's going to be more boring. Yeah, yeah, I've totally changed my opinion.

Totally changed, you're right. You're exactly right. I won't have a go then. because changing opinions is part of one of the beauties of the game but yes

it's exciting it's great and actually the last game I remember last season when Astombila were trying to qualify and they were just waiting

the whole stadium until was a bruce to finish the game it makes it even exciting and very often the end of the group stages

were boring five live sports the rugby union autumn international Unbelievable scenes are shell-shocked Twickenham. Rugby Union's elite clash in a bid to close out the year in style. Oh, what a try! Keep up to date with all the insight and analysis with the Rugby Union weekly podcast.

The Rugby Union Autumn internationals. It doesn't stop. Listen with the BBC Sounds app. On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues with Steve Crosman. Let's move on to Bayern and Paris. San Jaman then, shall we? And now we've got an opportunity to kind of really get stuck into this game. So it finished PSG one, Bayon, two. Vance de Luke jewels in Le Kippe wrote this. PSG must continue to hope that the Champions League will perpetually be marked by two successive truths, one for autumn and one for spring, and that Bayon, who trampled them on Tuesday, will have lost their irresistible airs by the time the good weather returns. Now, we'll come on to PSG, but Bayon's irresistible. I mean, Rafi should go first, really, one, because he was at the game and two, because it's obviously his club, but just before he goes in, Joshua Kamish said after the game that

he's 30 now, he's played, I don't know how many games in his career, he started very young, he won everything that you could win, and he said that this was the first 45 minutes, are 11v, which is really the only thing we should analyze and discuss because the 11v10, there's no point, that this first half on Tuesday night was the most intense he's ever played in. And I think it just, I think for me, it's enough to let the floor to Rafi because that sums a lot up. And to compete with this Bayern team, at least on 45 minutes, you need to be at your best fitness-wise.

And this PhD team is nowhere near their best fitness way. It was amazing the first half. It was also amazing because it wasn't just buying. I mean, PSG for all the problems that they have at the moment, still created chances, still had dominance, still paused a lot of problems for this buying team, and I spoke to a couple of players afterwards who said, I've never seen a team run this much. What are they doing in training? So that kind of physical exertion that they impose on opposition teams, even when they're not quite firing, that made it so special. It was such a high, high level

game. And I think there is something, Stephen, in what you said earlier, I think the fact that this game was not a knockout game, enabled both teams to really go for it. I think they really wanted to show who is best in Europe and maybe it would have been a bit more cagey if this is a knockout. But it wasn't and they went for it. And of course, Bayern just had a little bit more cohesion. They have more form right now. Everything seems to work for this team. And PSG have just dropped off a little bit. I think only momentarily. I don't see any bigger issues with them. But for Bayern having had this series of games where They've won, and every game that you win is kind of diminishing return

because you say, okay, we still haven't played anyone good yet, and this team is not good, and this team is not good, and when will we play a team that would really show us if we're good or not? It was a big validation. And the fact that they had to defend in the second half and win in a very unbi-in way without touching the ball much made it even sweeter for them, because they're used to steamrolling teams

and then switching off when they're 2-3-0 up in recent weeks and mums. But this was a different way, certainly the second half of winning, and they loved it. And they felt that this perhaps was just as valuable as a more dominant sort of 90 minutes of total perfection ball possession dominance would have been. And it was a lovely evening all around. And of course, it was in Paris, the most beautiful city in the world. So it was a lovely evening, lovely evening. I need you help with this, Rafi, because there is an evolution to Vincent Kompuyang's from last season to this season, but I wonder if he has to do with, you know, he imposed his

idea, the positional patterns in which a player has to occupy a zone or a lane. But this year, there seems to be like a flexibility of that. Okay, everybody knows that there is patterns, there is zones that you have to do certain things. But there's a movement around that makes them very difficult to identify and to the fan. Would that be right? So for full transparency for the listeners, I do work with one of the members of the coaching staff. I still think I'd try to evaluate things objectively in when buying don't play well, I say so. But I asked that very question, Guillem. I asked it myself and asked it to people at the club. Has company kind of changed? Has it changed? Has it? Has

has he evolved, has he sort of toned down the crazy man-to-man marking and the high line? And the answer is not really. The answer is that the team just are so much better drilled in the second year that they understand when to go and when to stay. I mean, take the first goal. The first goal comes from Upamechano winning the ball 30 meters inside the half of PSJ. So this is the centerback jumping and winning the ball. deep deep

sorry after four minutes as well yes straight in so they would have done these things and they did these things against Aston Villa they did against Barcelona last year but then the challenge isn't quite right or somebody else doesn't react

and then it's open and then it's one we won and they lose these games and now it doesn't happen anymore so it's not so much that they have modified the ideas or tone them down it's just that the team now being also a small team and having almost the same starting 11 give a

take two or three players every single game, they just get it. They just understand it. And right now they have this, this, this, I can take base years, the reference, really. What we saw from PSJ in the second after the season, where every game was just this performance where you almost felt you couldn't touch this team. This is what you have from buying right now because they're in that purple patch. And as, as you've alluded to, the only big warriors, you know, is it happening? six months to early, can they maintain it?

But of course, the answer is, you know, we can't just now play really badly and then hope that we'll improve automatically. We have to try and play as well as we can. And if we play really well now, and of course, there's another big test coming up against Arsenal in two and a half weeks' time, then let's keep riding that wave

for as long as we can. And the last thing you do against a team like that is give them, maybe not goals per se, although the Lwiti has the second goal It's just a pure gift. He only has to finish them. But even the first one for Nunum-Mendez to lose the ball where he loses it is at this level against a team like that.

And yet there's still three passes and a lovely back-heel inspiration from Gnabri to make that goal happen on the rebound from the first shot by release. But still, you just can't do that. It's not good enough. And with Enriquezell after the game, you know, those gifts that we give them, it just can't happen. And this is it as well when you're not

maybe are your best physically or you don't have your strongest 11 available because of injuries is that you make those mistakes that you would not really make and I mean, Marquino's guest at ballback after the kind of the 50-50 with Kane

he looks twice to be so he scans he's trying to take the information and yet the one angle which is a bit weird because I still think he should see it with Diaz on his right hand side but anyway so it's not like if he hadn't looked at all and then he said it's a schoolboy error and he gets to go but he actually is looking and

yeah he really is so quick and in a way in a kind of a dead angle to go and nick the ball off him and then finish like he did but it could have been four nil or four once only for buying a half time and i was like wow okay this is this is very special yeah but this ties back to the earlier discussion i think you still need at this level you need everything to to click and you need your best team at 100% to win the competition. And we saw it in this game in many ways. I think if you give back a fully fit Usman Demele, if Ashraf Hakimi doesn't suffer really bad injury

and has to come off, and if there's a redoer is there as well, it's a very different game. Just as Bayern's game against Inter was very different if they hadn't missed, I think, six or seven players. So you can have the best team, you can have the best league, but if you're not with your best players, if you're not in a great form at the moment, you will find a team of a similar level

that will knock you out. And of course, this was not a knockout game, but you can see how small the margins are, even against a PSJ team that are not quite at their best for the reasons we mentioned. Rath, can I just say, I really appreciate your commitment to impartiality, and this is the BBC after all.

But just bear in mind that I was sitting next to Julianne at the Champions League final last season, and he celebrated every goal like he was an ultra and at one point he was high-fiving a commentator in front of him he was wearing a PSG shirt so I'm not... Jerome Roten. I'm not worried.

And France pleasure, Jerome Rotten. But you made me sing pre-match on Five Live. Nobody made you do anything, Jules. The song by the ultra, you made me sing it, he volunteered. He volunteered. I asked you what the lyrics were. If you asked me the lyrics to Wonderwall, I wouldn't start going two days.

I was looking at the back of L'Akech, jeanue-at-air duels, which means what? Yeah, the fell to the knees, which is true because, obviously, the defeat, even if, you know, Rafa said it when we were together on Tuesday night, in the grand scheme of thing, PSG will qualify. This game, this defeat doesn't define the rest of your Champions League, obviously. But the defeat and the added injuries to lose D'embele after 25 minutes, to lose Hakemi, of course, in the way that it happened just before the break, for six to eight weeks.

They're hoping more six, but they feel like it would be eight. Nuna Mendez, who played the whole 19 minutes, but twisted his knee right at the end in the 92nd or 93rd minute, who would also be out for a few weeks. Dway already, we said some players who are borderline with extreme fatigue. And so this is why I think Lekeeps headline was that. It's true that they look like a wooden beast, is that what you say? Wounded?

Yeah, wounded, so a wounded beast, yeah, right now. There is part me, Guillaume, that wonders weather, and maybe this is a good one to ask you, because you're obviously more neutral here. A team has this galactic, amazing achievement they've been dreaming of. I think it would be almost inhumane to be able to maintain those same levels.

I don't know how anyone would be able to do that. Yeah, it'd be interesting to find out why the lack of consistency of PSG, but also say of Chelsea as well, who played the Club World Cup and they both been in the same situation of having only three weeks holidays, which is the one imposed by the rules, if you like.

And looking into it is, you know, yes, the lack of experience of a team that hasn't won a lot or at least players that haven't won a lot and having to win again. That is the hardest thing in football. Johan Griff said it many years ago. The hardest season is the second one after winning. So that certainly has a...

as a bearing on it. But there is more. I was thinking, you know, with the little pre-season, it's going to be more injuries. Well, Chelsea actually are the third or fourth team with the biggest amount of injuries in the Premier League. So they're not, they haven't been, you know, following like flies.

But at the same time, that's partly down to rotations. And you're going to be forced to do rotations all season to try to find some consistency. So it's a test for the manager, not just for the players. The players themselves, yes, they probably feel that there is too many games, that they don't have time to recover. But again, that's the job of the managers to find out if individually,

physically have got enough to play or not, they go, nobody can plan anything. They have to go game by game depending on the reaction of the players physically. But mentally as well, teams have got tests at the beginning of the day saying, are you slept okay, how is you mood? All those things eventually makes for an illusion. and for, as I said, a test to the manager. And at the end of the season, we will see if the injuries have been high or not,

if the choices have been right or not, and if the rotations have been high or not, it's still a little bit too early to say. And I don't think we've seen the consequence of that summer yet, but they're finding both at PSG and Chelsea that it's a completely new path. They just don't know. They go game by game and poses completely different challenges to the managers. Interesting.

Could you see then, Raff, that, drop off that I think we talked about that quite a bit of a lot at the start of the season what might happen to teams involved in the club world cup and then we've kind of forgotten about it to an extent is it is it possible well of course it possible is it likely that we are still going to see further knock on from that I think it's very hard to quantify and it's partially about the story you tell yourself in Munich where they also played the club world cup but of course got knocked out a little bit earlier they tell themselves the story that this was the best pre-season we've ever had.

We spent four, five weeks together. We grew together. We understand tactically much better each other. And a lot of people were very worried for the reasons that you mentioned, that this small squad in a year after the Club World Cup, in a World Cup year coming up, we'll pick up injuries and will have big problems. But somehow, whether it's by luck or by design

or maybe they figured out a way of keeping fresh, they haven't had that. They're also running the most in the Bundesliga. So you cannot even say they're sort of saving energy. Although on the last point, I thought I share with you, a very good story that Bill did. They said, hmm, okay, so Bainer running a lot. But let's look at the numbers because the GPS vests that all the players are wearing that give you the numbers. They also pick up sprints and runs when the game is not in play, i.e., for example, when you run up and celebrate goals.

goals. And of course, nobody's celebrating more goals than Bayern. So is all these extra meters really not just a function of them all running into the opposition half and celebrating with each other? I'm not sure the numbers are conclusive one way or the other, but it's again, I think, an interesting little reminder that we should always take stats with a pinch of salt. There's a reason. No, there's just a reason, just to finish on this. There's a reason why you don't retain the Champions League. You know, there's only what, two clubs who've done it in the last 40 years. It's because

it's that difficult. It's difficult to win it the first time, and then it's difficult to keep it and to go back to back. I mean, let alone three in a row like Zedan and Real Madrid. But even back to back, you know, Guadrola and City could not do it, and Chelsea and Tuchel could not do it, and Bayern could not do it,

and it's just not that easy. On top of everything that we've explained already, decompression and blah, blah, blah, and all of that. It's also the best competition for a reason and very hard to win it. Jules, can I just clarify one thing? When you said that you said Jerome Roten, yeah? Yeah? Was that actually Jerome Roten in front of us? So hold on. So Jerome Rotet, who for anyone who has not been following European football for donkeys years, played for PSG and also played for France like 10, 15 times. And Monaco.

Okay, but he was wearing a PSG shirt to do the commentary. So that's like, like if we did Sheffield Wednesday and Chris Waddle turned up in an owl's shirt to do the commentary. Is this normal? This seems strange. Imagine Sheffield Wednesday in the Champions League final. Yeah. He's very much a partial commentative.

A super fan like you, Jules. Why not? Listen, I'm all for it, Jules. It just made me smile. If I'd known it was him, I might have asked for a photo. I just saw you hugging some guy in a PSG top. Yeah, he was him. We still talk about it now.

The Euroleaks with Steve Crosman. Let's talk Iax next. They've sacked Johnny Heitinger after less than six months in charge. They're fourth in the eridivisee. They're eight points behind Fyernod. They have lost all four of their Champions League games this season, which means we've got a wonderful excuse to speak to Delegraphs. Marcel van der Kran.

Hello, Marcel. Hi, guys. All right. Good, thank you. What's going on? Why was now the time so quickly for Heitinger? Well, you've actually summed it up when you look at the results, but not just that. Johnny Heidegger came in as a real Ajax man, of course.

You know, he played for the club. He knows the style of the club, and he promised that he would play the real Iax style again. Bring back real Iax football after Farioli, the Italian who couldn't do anything right in the eyes of everybody in the Amsterdam Marina. Well, it didn't work out. There was no IAX football. It was very disappointing. And yes, he did have a very poor squad. Inherited a very poor team because they had to sell so many players. But there was absolutely no improvement at all over the last few months. Marcel, is Eric Ten Haig really coming back then? Straight into it.

It does, doesn't he? My favourite Dutch manager. It's an unavoidable one, I think. You're spot on there. Two days ago, Eric Tanach was spotted and pictured outside a place where Alex Cruz, the technical director and his agent, Keyes Foss, were all at present. And, of course, they said, well, you know, we always have a meeting. We like to have a coffee. Well, 48 hours later, the current manager is sacked. What's new?

For this Sunday, there will be an assistant in. charge, Fred Grimm, not a very experienced coach at top level. So we think that's a very temporarily job for him. And I expect Eric Tanach to arrive very soon. Marcel, is there an agreement of what this Ajax tall is now? Or does the continual, the little battle, especially from people that come from the outside into the club trying to say, let's evolve it, let's move it on, and the people in the clubs or people that have known a successful.

IAC, say, no, no, no, let's go back to what IAC is. Is there a common ground at all? Do we know what the IACs ways? Well, it's mostly based on the history of the club. And we can look at a long, deep history. You know, Croix brought it in the 70s, et cetera. Louis Van Gogh continued in the 80s, 90s. But more recently, Eric Talach was a very successful four or five years ago.

he was doing brilliantly with really, really good academy kids and maybe the academy kids who know how to play attacking football who love to play a 4-3-3 or ideally a 3-4-3 that's what the club is used to but when you don't have the real talent anymore when they're not coming through the academy because the academy is not as great anymore as it used to be you will have to rely on players from the outside

and they do struggle to adapt to that IAXL. They're not brought up with it. They weren't used to it in their own clubs. And I think that is the main problem. And then it comes to buying really, really cleverly, well, that was done for ages with Mark Overmars in charge. But Mark Overmars had to leave after a scandal. The president of the club had to go.

There was all kind of board members going. Edwin van der Saar had a brain emmerich. He had to go altogether. It was a disaster and that disaster is not being repaired by the current people. Was he a bit naive, Johnny Heitinger, to kind of go on the whole sort of make Iax great again thing? Did people really think, oh, yeah, this sounds like something which is likely to happen?

I fully agree with you there, Steve. He was in a great job at Liverpool. He was having a great... time with Arna Slott. The two of them had it going. Is it a coincidence that Liverpool was stuttering at the beginning of this season when that duo in charge at Liverpool and at Amfield was, you know, was not doing it anymore. He arrived thinking, well, I've had a great year under Arna Slot. I know how to manage a team. I've seen, I've learned a lot. He arrived at I, I was thinking he could do it all. But when you arrive at a big club like that, in trouble, in financial trouble, no hierarchy, no proper playing style anymore, it's a lot to take on when you've just been just an assistant and maybe he underestimated a job completely.

Myself, we know about the structural issues that Dutch football have and they're not alone in that by getting swallowed up by the bigger leagues and the money is a real issue as well. But one thing that they should still be able to do is, of course, create local talent, develop local talent, both on the coaching side and on the playing side. You said earlier that the academy is not doing that. Can you put your finger on why that stopped to happen? Because they used to be a production line, even in the really bad days that they had,

there were still one or two players every year that would go on and do something special somewhere else. Well, I think in this case, it's not a national issue. It's more that IACs have maybe become, after their great success and selling so many players, slightly arrogant. They've been accused of that before, thinking they could do it all. I mean, at the moment they have direct, one of the directors, Maureen Buker, said, well, you know, IAX will soon be the biggest academy in the country again.

Well, based on what? That is just hoping that it will happen. And at the same time, PSV. Indhoven, Fiannardt, Rotterdam, both producing lots of talents. You know, if you look at the national youth teams, all their teams are full with kids from final MPs behind them. Azad Alkma, even, great young team. I know they didn't survive tonight,

but in general, doing really well, making huge profits on selling. So I think in this case, it is more an issue at Amsterdam, Yoan Gryfe Arena. Just out of interest, Marcel, before we let you go. Does Eric Ten Haag do in the Netherlands

what he did in Germany and a lot in England, which is reference Harry Potter in press conferences? Every time something's going wrong because I'm not Harry Potter. I don't know if he always did that at Iax or not. Well, his press conferences always were

very famous and full of fun. Right. People have been mocking him about his communication or lack of communication skills in press conferences. And I'm looking forward to next one. week if they appoint him quite quickly and we are going to have some cracking press conferences again, I think.

Lovely. Marcel, great to have you with us. Thank you so much. Cheers, guys. That's Marcel van der Kran from DeLegraff. Thank you to Guillem Balgay, Raphahonixstein and Julianneuron. That's it for this edition of the Euroleagues. The commentator's view will be your next episode of the Football Daily. And as always, thank you so much for listening. Five live sports Go to the end zone touchdown. NFL.

Touchdown, Philadelphia. Great play design. I think you just have to go out there and be the best that you can be. We're going to go out there and lay it all in the line. A 12-yard touchdown run. 105 yards on the return. Where speed, power and skill collide. And the Eagles have beaten the Chiefs convincingly in Super Bowl 59.

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