Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Italian drama & Diego Simeone’s future

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

Steve Crossman and the panel react to an action packed couple of nights in the Champions League. Julien Laurens, Mina Rzouki &, Guillem Ballagué give their reaction to a busy week for Italian clubs including Juventus’ near comeback, Atalanta’s late win over Borussia Dortmund and, Inter Milan’s shock defeat to Bodø/Glimt.In Spain, Real Madrid survived an early scare against Benfica to progress to the next round. Benfica had a plethora of chances. This doesn’t feel like a particularly strong Real Madrid side like the ones of old. Atletico Madrid are through to an eighth Champions League Round of 16 stage under Diego Simeone, but will it be his last? Had they gone out could it have been a different story for the Argentine. TIME CODES 00:00 Intro 01:00 Inter Milan fall to Bodø/Glimt 12:30 Juventus knocked out 14:00 Is there an Italian football crisis? 24:30 Atalanta’s late drama to go through 31:02 Real Madrid scrape past Benfica 34:35 The Kylian Mbappe situation 43:33 Atletico Madrid & Diego Simeone’s future5 Live / BBC Sounds commentaries: Sat 1500 Liverpool v West Ham, Sat 1500 Newcastle v Everton on Sports Extra, Sat 1730 Leeds v Man City, Sun 1200 Rangers v Celtic, Sun 1400 Man Utd v Crystal Palace, Sun 1400 Fulham v Tottenham on Sports Extra, Sun 1400 Brighton & Hove v Nottingham Forest on Sports Extra 2, Sun 1630 Arsenal v Chelsea.

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big Champions League stories from Bodo Glimp, knocking out last year's finalist Inter to Galatasar, eye spoiling Juventus' epic comeback and Atalanta, their fight back to beat Dortmund with the last kick of the game. We'll also talk Diego Simioni after Atletico Madrid went through, Antoine Griseman, is he off to Major League Soccer? With us this week, Julian Laurent, Mina Rizzuki and Guillem Balagher. Mina Rizuki probably wishes her, Mike, wasn't working since there's going to be a lot of, A lot of negative Italian stories tonight.

You know what? I'm actually quite proud, so you can bully me all you like. Excuse me? Excuse me? Right, so we've got Miner. Like that wasn't your plan, Steve. Like that wasn't your plan. We are going to start with a big week in the Champions League for Seria our side.

So we will get into Yuvay going out. Don't worry, Mina. And Atalanta going through. We'll start with Inter. Orglint beat them 2-1 at Sancero on Tuesday to go through 5-2 on aggregate, so they're into the last 16 for the first time in their history. Into though, Mina, getting a lot of stick in the Italian press. There is no sort of sense of, oh, hang on, we've had two finals in the last three years.

You know, that was an overachievement, which it was. They are getting hammered today. They are getting hammered, but I think it has... There was also a measured response in the sense that I think there was some, if you like, measured response from set. media that to international press or perhaps internal press that were very hard on Calcho after Inter's loss, it became, oh, the death of football, what does this mean? Is this the worst league?

And I think that you have to take each story for what it's worth. I mean, Juventus's problems are very different to Inter's problems, and they're all very different to Atalanto or Milan or whoever it is that might ever be contesting a big match like this. I think one of the things that's important to note is people underestimated Simony and Zaghi and just how well he did at Inter and how much he was able to win when it came to the Champions League and the kind of psychology and style of play he introduced to the squad that allowed them to reach two Champions League finals.

Christian Kivu for how amazing he's been in Suryaam is perhaps not accustomed yet to the very highest level of European football. And for a team that is 10 points in the lead in Seraia, you probably could afford to some of your squad and really go all out for this particular match against Bodo Glimt. There was an occasion when you just felt they used the same tools over and over again, which is just a bunch of crosses coming in, trying to do as much as they could from the corners, no through ball, no interesting play, give and take, link up play in the middle. And that was worrying. And it made it very easy for Bodo Glimt, who had clearly studied them,

to have a plan, to hatch a plan, neutralize the strengths and go forward. And it made it much harder for Intern when they don't have Laotaro Martinez, who is the man that I would say can offer that link up play, that can offer something through the middle that's more than just trying to get on to the end of a cross. And it looked like Kivu had just run out of ideas and wasn't really capable of extracting the quality within the side in the same way that Inzagi was able to. But they didn't believe in Insagi. I mean, it's not that he was sacked, but I don't think he ever got his credit from international media.

and perhaps now you can see the power of what he was able to build then. I don't know if did you guys see Jules Barusia Dortman, one of their social media accounts, was showing off yesterday because they said, hey, we managed to pick up a drawer against Bodo Glimt. I mean, they're now looking at that through a different. Basically, if Bodo Glimp beat you, nobody gives them much credit,

it's just a crisis for the other club. That seems to be the direction of travel. Which is wrong, obviously, because Bodo Glimt is one of a wonderful story, one of the greatest upset, you know, of whether Inter have a lot of problems or not, for a Norwegian team to knock out the runners up from last season, and as you say, Steve, two finals in the last three years,

is exceptional. It's one of the biggest upset that we've ever seen in the competition, one of the greatest stories as well. We talked a lot about Bodo Grim, remember we had the culture coach, on the program. I don't think we have talked about a team more than Bodo. Glit. I think they have led

the Euroleagues about five times this season. They don't want any of their first six games in the competition in the league phase. Then they beat City at home. They go away to Atlatico Madrid and win to qualify almost with a miracle to the playoffs and then they play Inter and we say, okay, Inter, second leg at home. They'd be okay, they'd be fine.

It's Inter. And yet, the beauty with this Bodoglim team, I think, is that domestically in the league where they're super dominant, although they are not the current champion, because they didn't win the title last season for them, is that they can have 65, 70% of the ball when they play in their own league and then revert to a completely different game plan and different style in Europe against better team than them, to be fair,

and have 35% of the ball. And to coach that tactically from Keating Nutson, the very good head coach, is very difficult for a team to be able to go from one to the other like that almost every three days. It's quite incredible. And the way they played at times at San Ciro was just amazing too. I think it helps massively that they obviously have a domestic calendar that is very different to the rest of Europe because right now, for example, for a long time they didn't have their league,

so they only had the Champions League to play and they obviously fresher. They're the team that runs the most in the whole of the Champions League for a reason. And that is the reason, really. So they might have some advantages like the plastic pitch at home, but take nothing aware from how great they've been in the last four games because they've beaten city at Hittico Madrid and Inter Milan twice. Don't say very loudly, but maybe Bodou Glynn has shown the secret of football. Context and system.

Sometimes it's as simple as that and it's very complex at the same time. In terms of system, they prioritize a way of playing, a culture, roles and obligations within our formation, and then they look for the players that fit in. In terms of context, they all seem to thrive when they are together. And the proof of it, the evidence of it, is those players that have been abroad, didn't work and came back. Even though they didn't have resale value, because they are in the later half of the 20s, they have shined before and after from the goalkeeper Heikin who went to Bristol City and didn't play.

Well, they left back, Frederick Andrew Borkkand, who was sold to Hertha Berlin and then loaned to Fairion, came back to Bodo. James Peter Hagen, of course, was Enter Frankfurt and Gang. Haccon Heavion, who I think is the best player, who also went away to Ex-A-Z Almire and Brondy and returned in January 224, and Prattick Berwick as well, the captain.

How good was he, Jules, at Lens? Didn't last long there. No, not very good. And the thing I think, more than being not good enough or not having the attack, it's just I think it was very homesick. And that's fine. It's absolutely fine. I've got nothing against being just happy with your own, you know, in your own place,

with that team that you know so well with the people that you love more than trying to go away and just not being happy. So it was very clear, certainly for us, I don't know about Howe Goh when he went to Italy, Meenao, then to Germany, etc. But with Berg, it was very clear. There was just not, even people at Lens were a bit sad because they knew how good it was and probably it was certainly good enough to play in Liga. and I think Hauger was probably good enough as well,

talent-wise, to play in other leagues. It's just, they were just unhappy to be aware from Budu, basically, and from the north of nowhere. And I think there's a lot of people at Lange at the time who just fell his sadness to be homesick like he was, and then he went home, and obviously everything went back to normal before, and as good as he's been since. We are in different shows on the BBC,

but there's nothing like the Euroleagues, especially when Steve Crosman is there. Why are you buttering me up? What's coming next? No, just that. Just context and system. This works, this combination of people and brains. And of course, the context is, the system works, the context as well.

Just love being here. Mina, can I just ask you on, because I feel like we're being so lovely and positive, but I was really hoping for such a negative show about Italian. It's coming, don't worry, it's coming. It's coming. It's the start. Okay, yeah, good point. All right, so before I sort of bring the mood down, one more on Bodo,

and actually it follows on Mina from what Giam was saying there. And I know we don't know the answer to this, but I think it's just interesting to speculate. Normally, a team doing what Bodo Glimpter doing means they will lose all of their best players because they will get picked up by the other big clubs in Europe. But as Giam was just outlining, so many of these players have tried that and it hasn't worked. So maybe they have a chance of holding on to them. I think that's been twice shy, you know?

Well, you're right about that. And I think that what you're seeing is, what you're seeing at Boduglimt is what you're not seeing in Italian football necessarily as a whole, certainly for some clubs, but not as a whole, is that it's a clear strategy, sort of a plan on what kind of players they're going for. The squad had nine Norwegians within it, which goes to show you how much they are true to the actual project of raising homegrown players, of mixing, having a nice blend between youngsters.

and like you said, players in their late 20s. The squad cost $55 million, and you compare that to Inter Milan, which is $666 million. That is a huge gulf in financial difference between the two. Lots of investment in-tern, not the same. Of course, with Inter, they want to talk about energy-wise, but 50,000 inhabitants of that city coming into San Ciro, they wouldn't be able to fill that ground if they wanted to,

with every single person who lives in there. You couldn't even fill this. stadium. So there's a huge difference there. But what I want to also point out is for how amazing everything their strategy is with the way that they've built this project, with how they scout play is not just by how good they are on the ball, but also how good they can fit in within the team and mentality-wise, which is very key. But I also want to point out that there's a huge, once upon a time in the Champions League, you had the behemoths and then everyone was so far below. But now I think that those smaller clubs are raising their levels,

and perhaps the big ones can no longer afford to be as great as they are. Like if we are talking about Juventus and Galatasaray, and I can talk to you about the Turkish finances have raised by 67% in terms of revenue. So there's, I'm not so sure there's any small club anymore. I feel like a lot of them are raising their values, certainly from a financial point of view, the Premier and Uyghers run away with everything. But if you look at overall at a broad level in Europe, I would say a lot of these teams are really learning how to build proper projects and actually compete in ways that I don't think before.

Once upon a time, a bodo glimpse would be able to compete against the likes of Inter or Galatasaric could compete with the likes of UV. Yeah, all right. So to finish on it then, Jules, this might be a bit too romantic, even for us on the Euroleagues. Did the Champions League need this? story? I mean, I don't know.

Last season we had one Belgian club, one Portuguese and two Dutch clubs in the last 16. The season before, we had one Danish club. Not winning these kind of games. No, I know. I know. I know. But as great as these stories, and we said, I think the Champions League has been great on that level for a long time. And yeah, at the end, it might be the same players, the same teams and the same

clubs and the same players. And we might have four English clubs in the semifinals or six in the quarterfinals. if you want, let's see, we see. But it's only refreshing and it's good. And it's funny as well because Mina is here that it's at the expense, obviously, of Italian clubs. Well, let's, let, Guillem, I'm going to come back to your word of context here

as we move it on to you, because this is the strange thing. And Mina's right, you know, there has been, you do get the kind of classic discussion around or what's happening with Italian football. And we haven't even moved on to the team that went through yet in Atlanta. But there's context about losing to Bodoglint.

There's also context about UVA going out to Galatasarai because they had 10 men for much of the game. Lloyd Kelly was sent off, as people might have seen on Champions League Match of the Day last night, very controversial and, you know, lots of people disagreeing over whether or not it should have been a red card. Regardless, they won 3-0 UV in normal time with 10 men. That was only enough to go to extra time against Galatasarai, who ended up winning it, and Victor Osamon, of all people,

scored one of the goals in extra time. it's hard Guillem to decide how to judge YuVe because it was an incredible effort but also they were in a position they should never have been in. Yeah and that's what you get with the Italian sites if you like, two versions of it. The Juventus of past, not 30, 40 years ago, but not so long ago. They had a consistency, they had a defensive structure, they had players of personality. They don't seem to have that all the time. But you can go through the other sides in Italy that have been knocked out

and is the same story. Should Inter not go on? Should you not get ASE Milan further down the line? And then it's logical the discussion that, you know, there's crisis in Italian football until I go and have a look at the UE coefficient and see that Seria is still ranked second in Europe behind only the Premier League. So I'm going to defend that there's nothing wrong with the Seria. If anybody wants to say something else first.

Against Syria, I'm very happy to go first against Syria. Yeah, please go. Because, no, before you two defend it. And I'm not, as you know, I love Italian football. I watch it every weekend. It's not the death of Italian football. It's not there's issues in every league. It's not because today Juventus and Inter Milan went out so early that there's a problem.

However, I think Arigo Saki in his column for Lagata today made a really good point, which is true, when you're best team, because Intermilan have been the best team in Italy for the last few years. years, he's knocked out by a Norwegian team like that, he raises questions. And I think that's the right way of looking at it. It's the questions about Italian football and the league right now. It's the league that has had the most nil-nil-drault this season, for example, amongst the big five leagues.

It's a league where Luca Modrich, at 40 years old, is one of the best players, which is true. There's a lack of intensity, apart from Como and potentially Atlanta at times, certainly under Paladino is true. The rest, there's a lack of intensity in those teams, in the way the games are being played, every weekend. That is, that's the truth. That doesn't mean that those clubs are not good clubs,

that they don't have good players, that they don't do good work, everything. But there's, especially on the intensity side of it. And Covetiano is probably the best place if you want to have the best, if you want to do your badges, it's probably the best way to go. I understand that tactically and everything.

But there is a lack of intensity in the way that games are being played in Syria this season, more than probably last season before that, that at times I think in Europe, Europe, and for example, when you play against a team like Bodoglim, that has a lot of intensity, that runs a lot, that presses a lot, and all of that, where you could struggle a little bit more than maybe if your league was a little bit more intense, I think.

This is great. I feel like I'm presenting Newsnight. Mina Razuki, your response. Oh, thank you. Did we question Manchester City when they lost at the time to Monaco on away goals? Did we question Liverpool when they lost to Atlanta and the Europa League? Can we judge an entire league by how good. one of their representatives is within that league? Or do we take it case by case?

Now, if we look financially, if we look at the revenues as a whole of the Premier League in the 20 teams, they earn 7.5 billion. Now, if you look at after that, comes the Bundesliga and the Liga, and then it's lowly Seria in 2.9. And yet, they had a representative in 2024 defeat Liverpool in the semi-final and then win the Europa League in Atlanta on a much smaller budget. We're can be the invincibles of Bayloravikuzin at the end. We've had Interreach two Champions League finals for a team that, for a league that is so far, the revenue levels of all the others in, whether it's La Liga or whether it's Bundesliga, it is way below everything.

I think that it's not such a bad comeback, to be honest with you, not to mention that I still think the Italian school of coaching is very good. Now, we talk about Inter and I think that, you know, they very nearly got into the top eight years, they've definitely made mistakes. I'm going to hold my hand up. I think Juvent has produced a very brilliant performance despite the fact that in both of those legs, they lost a player and had to play a whole half nearly with down to 10 men. This is, my defense is not to take anything away from all the problems that you mentioned. And Jolz is right in saying that there is a tempo problem. There are many more. There is corruption at a very top level. I think that a lot of the times

financial mismanagement is rife. If you look at the way that Juventive suspend, I mean, they can afford to spend a lot of money, but they've spent it badly. You're looking at teams like, I mean, I'm sitting here looking at Tonham Hotspers. We're not mentioning, you know, the Premier League, but Tom Hotspers, what, 16th in the league right now, despite all the money they've spent, Manchester United have had years of disappointment. And yet we don't question the league when they don't do so well. If you look at La Liga, for example, and 400 million has been by Atletico Madrid, 400 million has spent in 18 months. They should be doing a lot better when it comes to not worrying how they were performing against Clubbrugger.

So there is things where sometimes I think that Italian football gets judged a lot when only about three years ago we were talking about the fact that there were three representatives of Seria in the Champions League semi-final stage. It was now Poly Milan and Inter. But that's not to take away from the fact that there are problems that need to be addressed, especially international level. There's just not enough youth, which is why Italy can't qualify for the World Cup. They're not developing players the way they used to be.

They focus too much on tactics and not enough in raising and developing and nurturing technique. Right now, it's all about which foreigners. I mean, you look at the little money that they're making in revenues, and yet they're the highest spenders after the Premier League in the transfer market. And that worries me. That worries me how they look to address the problem, which is financial mismanagement a lot of the times,

rather than looking to the academies, rather than looking at players that they can bring in. We sit here talking about how Modrich is changing Milan and how amazing it is that which 50-year-old guy is going to come in and change Cremonezi. You know, it's Jamie Vadi. Way, wonderful for him. But why are we looking at all these old guys?

I'm not saying they're not brilliant. They are. But how about we give, I don't know, like Lorenzo Luca, more of a chance at Napoli before he was shunned away. Fajoli at Juventis, there are so many different examples that are not given their time. And then when Italy doesn't qualify against Northern Ireland or whoever it is this time around like last time,

it's going to be, oh, what's going on? I will never take away anything from the fact that I think they've overachieved considering a lot of their run. revenues. They have problems. They do. But I do hate this fact that it's always people wanting to tarnish the whole league when one club or two don't do as best as they could. And I thought Italy, I thought Juventus were great yesterday. And what do you really think? I loved it. I was in one of those positions. And there's a guy on the Fasho used to do this, right, for older listeners. I was nodding along to everything Jules said, right?

And then you spoke and I was also nodding along. I was like, how is this possible that I agree with both of you? Can I also just say one more thing? Like, Ossamon and Ossamon is on 15 million net. Do you think an Italian club can offer a player like that, any kind of wages similar to that? He can't go to Italy? Isn't it true that Ossamon has, is it true that Ossamon has a clause where he can't go back to Saria or something? Yeah, and Napoli was just, you know, they've lost.

Di Guayin and other players like that to rival. So they made a point of inserting a clause into his contract. That means that he can't go to an Italian club until the summer of 2027. So even though that he wanted to go to Juventus who desperately, desperately, desperately wanted him, well, he showed signs of wanting to join a team that appreciated him so much. There's very little he can do about it. But if you look at the fact that how much they've spent on the league, that their revenues have increased by 67% in Italy's dying in terms of revenues, it goes to show you that this is

what I mean by it's starting to. to level out all these different leagues in Europe where there isn't this huge, wow, the top five leagues. It's more like the Premier League, sort of a middle. And then the level below that is actually not that far below. Because Galatas, right, if you look at their squad, it is stacked with a lot of talent. Maybe they're not extracting all of that talent from the players,

but they do have very nice and good players and expensive too. Yeah, I agree with Minna. and I could leave it at that because you put forward lots of very good arguments but I'll add some as well I think Italian football hit rock bottom a few years back and they are on their way up and I know we get confused sometimes

when Inter Milan gets knocked out by Ipolo Glimt and then we take massive conclusions but looking at the context we see the Italian clubs have reached eight UEF finals in the last five years more than any other league apart from England across the five seasons as I said and that shows in the UE coefficient

only the Premier League has outperformed Seria. There's been also, you're looking deeper at all the group ages, and there's been international success. Not only they won the Euros in 21, but they also won the under 17 and the under 19th European titles, the rich under 20s World Cup final. The league is the most interesting one out of the top five with four different winners in six seasons

and no repeat champions since 2020. there is talent, even though it doesn't seem to be put together properly, you only need to look at the Premier League, Donaruma, and Tonali and Calafiori, Kiesa, Vicario, etc. And there is even players emerging that could be really, really good, the likes of Esposito, Palestra or Leone. They have remained competitive at a time where their spending power has been very, very weak. And when there is infrastructures are not great either, compared to England, they are a disaster, of course.

But already, over half of the Seria clubs are now foreign-owned and they want to organize the finances and make it all even more professional other way. Major institutions like both Milan-Clues, for instance, seem financially more stable than ever. And co-hosting the euros should accelerate as well what they need to do, which is a redevelopment of stadiums. And all that signs to a...

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On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleaks. If Crossman. Atalanta are the one Seria our side left in. Atalanta beat Dortmund 4-1 in Bergamo, so 4-3 on aggregate, and they won it with the last kick of the game. Not just the penalty jules from Lazar Samarzic. A hell of a penalty from Lazars Samarzic. A great penalty, and I'm very happy to talk about how well he took his penalty,

top corner, etc. But the way Rami Ben Sabini, who I really like... Oh, you're a nightmare. I mean, this is where... one of the worst performances I've ever seen in the championship at that level. I'm not talking league phase or group stages before. Just a Dortmund defender. Yeah.

That's a, yeah, that's an agenda, a general international, very good player, one Afghan for example. I've had a really good career, played in Germany for many, many years, a Gladbach before and now a dormant, who is sometimes as good as he's technically and there's a lot of clips that you can find on social media, one especially where he does one of the most beautiful

nutmegs you would ever see in your life, technically gifted. but at times such a liability defensively, which for a defender could be a problem, and it very much was in this game against Atlanta, but the way he gave away the penalty by almost chucked off the head of Nikola Christovic, literally is just ridiculous.

In the last minute of the game, again, that would have gone to extra time, obviously, if he hadn't made that stupid mistake. So great penalty, but Samajic, in the end, Atlanta deserved to win anywhere and to qualify, and it's another collapse from Dortmund and Nico Kovash is not the first time,

it won't be the last one. But yeah, Ben Sabini, oh my word. We've got to give, not just Atalanta their moment, but I think Rafaeli Palladino as well, the manager, because it would have been really easy for a lot of people to think twice about that job because of what Jampiero Gasparini did there

over many, many years. Those were big shoes to fill, and at the minute, he is filling him. Yeah, I mean, they had Yvaniard, which you could, say that that was an easy job. You can't do worse than him, right? So, oh, that's, I feel so bad for saying that. Because Eurich is a guess that makes a difference then, because I'm kind of ignoring him,

but maybe that's not fair. I think Palladena was actually linked to the event's job, and he is somebody, if you meet him, he has a lot of belief in himself. So there isn't, he is somebody who will walk in and think that he will make a difference. He's very confident of his skills. He's very confident of his ability as a manager. He walked down in Fiorentina when they no longer aligned with with the mission that he wanted to do.

And he's just somebody that's, I mean, he's a star. He's one of the stars, to be honest with you. And I think he gave a really rousing speech, actually, in the dressing room afterwards where he held up the bandage of Christovic after he earned that penalty, if you like, from that kick on his head, and said, this is what I want from you guys. This is what it takes. You know, it is throwing yourself into everything to try to win that penalty,

to try to win anything in our favor to make sure we went through. And he's, you know, he was linked to the eventist's job. Obviously, Spalletti is the one who, got it and he's doing a tremendous job as much as he can anyway. And Paladino's, I think, want to look for the future. Gasparini is his inspiration. It's his greatest inspiration. He's always talked about Gasparini being the coach that he's modeled himself afterwards.

So having the chance to lead his team, a team that sort of has, like, if you like, internally knows exactly what he's looking to do because a lot of his instructions, a lot of his style is based on what Gasparini did. So who better to take over than him and teach players who already know how he wants to play anyway. Well, maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way then, Jules, because I suppose maybe it only counts if you're the guy who immediately takes over when Gasparini goes. It's an odd situation, because how long was Eurich there, like two months? Yeah.

It's more than that, but yeah. So it's an odd situation that, isn't it, whereby the guy who's become such a legend is still very fresh in the memory, and yet you have had somebody come in and fail quickly? Yeah, but I think everybody has forgotten about Eurridge and what I did at the club. I mean, even at Southampton, they've forgotten about him. to be honest. So it's all about Paladino. It's doing great.

Another big reason also why they managed to do that comeback was also because they had the support. It was a great support. It was a big night.

You could feel it. All of that won't happen on second leg in the last 16th. So let's see, but he's still building you know, for not just for this season but for the next season,

the seventh in Syria right now. So they're still not probably where they would like to be although, as we said, it's very competitive. after Inter, who are 10 points clear of Milan and probably after Milan as well. But then below that, Roma, Juventus,

Como, Napoli, of course, and then them, it's there. So it's a very exciting end of the scene for them, and he's done an amazing job to turn things around like he did. I also think, Guillem, that they are just quite a good team to root for Atalanta, for a number of reasons. But like, maybe people will remember,

but Bergamo was one of the worst hit places by COVID in all. of Europe. So there'll be lots of people who don't necessarily know, actually, that Atalanta is that they are from the city of Bergamo. But people learned the name of that city, tragically, because of COVID, a lot of people did. So I just wonder if for people, there'll be lots of people who love like the Boddo Glimp story, we shouldn't forget the significance of the Atalanta story, especially with what that city has dealt with. Yeah, there is also the fact that they They tend to use local boys more often than not,

even though it's not athletic club, but they like to get them through the ranks. There's the style of football that they defended for a while without having the budget of others. They've been regulars in Europe. But you're absolutely right. And you just reminded me soon after all those stories that we were hearing from Bergamo at a time of COVID,

I was one of the few that was traveling around and doing a documentary for CBS. and of course we stopped there. And the stories, both in terms of what football had done, or the footballers or people within the football world, had done to help. And the communion of everybody there was something that is absolutely unforgettable. It was like ground zero, wasn't it, of COVID?

We started hearing all the tragic stories. And yes, there's a link, there's that link between the community and the club that. that is always appreciated when you go to the stadium. The noise is a bit different, and they all lose and win together. Okay, let's talk Rail Madrid next. Guillaume, you were obviously at the Burnaby last night for the second leg of Rail Madrid, Benfica. Venet scored the winner for Real.

So they go through, they won two one on the night and three one on aggregate. We'll talk about the game in a second. However, given what happened last week, Venetius Jr., accusing Benfica's Jan Luca Prestiani of racially abusing him, there was always going to be a lot of attention and I imagine a huge sense of tension in the air coming into this game. More attention than tension

because UEFA did right for football by taking Prestiani away. They have enough indication of what had happened so they could put a provisional one-match ban. And of course with Jose Marino making the trip to Madrid from the hotel to the bus and then disappearing, that also helped.

So there wasn't so much tension. But it was a very, very eventful day. I don't remember many days as eventful as that one. Just very quickly. Rejection of the appeal on the day. Benfica wanted Pristiani to play. Rejection of the appeal by UEFA. There was a clash between the Benfica fans and the Spanish police.

A Benfica fan came out of the security area. He had his face hidden. didn't want to take the mask off so the police charged and they were injured fans outside the stadium then we hear that we had known that Kili and Mapae was not going to be part

of the squad and we can talk to Jules about this but of course his injury is one that started two months ago and doesn't seem to shake off and Arbeleu just before the game he says well it's not going to be a matter of days it's going to be longer than that and we don't know when he's going back wow

and then we because we knew, I was told by UEFA that Morinio was going to have a radio booth to get into it, you had to go through the press area. So I walked into the press area and there were like 50 people with the phones just pointing out at me. Obviously it wasn't on me.

It was the way that Morinio was going to come through. So we waited there, 20 minutes into the game he hadn't arrived because he was waiting and actually watching the game in the bus. He had and made it into the building itself. Then there is a, Real Madrid, this was very obvious. The camera pans towards the Rehamedit area

where everybody wears white, the fan zone inside the stadium. And one fan makes a Nazi salute. So Rehamedit acts straight away. They take him away. He's a season ticket holder. He's now been disciplined by the club,

but he was pushed out of the stadium. Then Ascentio, after a crash with Kamabinga, hits his head onto the floor, has to be taken away. way, goes to hospital, he's okay. Benfica scores first, then is the comeback with Venetius' goal. Lopez Cabral at the end of the game,

the Benfica player, asked for the shared of Venetius, gets criticized by the fans. This was just an incredible day, and actually, Benfica did really, really well. I spoke to the assistant manager, and he was very proud, like everybody was, of what Benfica had done with Real Madrid,

that still needs the miracle of Coutoir and Vinicius' goal to actually go into the next round and present themselves as perhaps candidate to make it into the last maybe four, but they have to play much better than this though. Yeah, let's zone in on the Mbapé situation then. If only we knew somebody who'd written

the definitive biography of Killingen Mbapé. I knew you're going to say something like that. I know you too well now. In Killinghambapé, the definitive biography Julianne Laurent, the world's leading French football journalist. World leader, Omar. Paints a vivid portrait. Don't pretend you didn't write this.

Paints of Mbapé's meteoric rise to global stardom. Of course I was going to mention that. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you very much. That is a wonderful... I'm not like Guillem. Giam has written so many books.

I'm just starting... Well, listen, first brick in the road. Yeah, yeah. First brick in the road. Come on then, Jules. about and back please situation. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think I don't even know where to start because he's had this knee problem, knee injury, which is not too big as in like

it's not an ACL or anything like that, but it's been bothering him for weeks now. And I think it's a classic example of what a player would like to do and what a club, especially like Real Madrid, especially when he's the biggest guy there, when he's so important certainly in terms of the goals he's scoring, what the club and the manager, especially when you change manager as well halfway through the season, you know, would like you to do. And I think for a long time, there was a bit of a, Killion was like, okay, if you want me to play, I can't play, but you know I'm not 100%. You know, I feel my knee is a discomfort that I could do with that. I need a rest. Yeah, but we need you to play. They even flew him over to

Saudi Arabia for the Super Cup final, by the way. All that way for him to play. For him to play 10 minutes where he was clearly not fit. And I think that he got to a point where it was silly to keep playing him when clearly he needed a rest. And I think where Arborah, maybe he made a mistake or maybe he was a little bit naive or maybe he should have handled his communication a little bit better is because before this game, he said, yeah, yeah, he's ready to play, he's all good when Kilian didn't even finish training on Tuesday.

The day before the game, he was in so much pain that he couldn't actually finish the training session. Obviously after that, he was out of the squads. They would rest him for at least 10 days. The idea, and what would they love, they would love him to be back for the last 16 first leg, especially if that was Manchester City and not sporting that they would face.

But again, we're not really sure exactly when the knee would be better enough for him to be able to play without any pain. Let me add the other side of the story. And the other side of the coin is that part of the story is playing differently. in Madrid. Embapedi didn't need to play a

a cup game against a third division side in search of, that's what's been said anyway, of equally improving on the record of goals paid a year of Christiano Ronaldo, that he also has decided that, and this comes from stories that have been published in Lequip and from his entourage, that the priority this year is the World Cup. the impression that many have is that he's choosing his games, even though he may, as, as

Jules says now, he's, it's clearly him saying, that's it, because he embarrassed his own manager, Arbello, by, or Arbello didn't have the right information anyway. And when he was asked about if it's an injury or if it's just Musil complaints, Arbella said, is there a difference? I don't think he had enough information to actually answer in that press conference. But all And all, the picture that's been pointed out or described is an Embrape who is obsessed about his goals, his stats, the World Cup, France, and a picture's been built of somebody that doesn't think of Real Madrid at the forefront of it. So I don't know if he want to defend him, but this is what he's been said back in Madrid.

Yeah, no, no, I understand. I mean, I think the World Cup is massive on his agenda. There's no doubt. and like every other player, especially the players of big countries who have a chance of winning it, he wants to be there fully fit 100% and not have any little niggles

or overtiredness and things like that. He also, as you know, he's so ambitious for Real Madrid and why he wants to create that Real Madrid that I think it's a bit harsh to say, not you, Guillain, but in general, that he doesn't really care about the club

or he's not the priority because as we saw and why he wanted to play that cup game was to try to emulate a little bit what Cristiano did before, his idol, the icon of the club, the legend, etc., etc. So it's going to be a very interesting

second half of the season, that's for sure. France, Patonk, Real Madrid. That's what they're going to start saying, like Garrett Bae. In that order. In that order. Sorry, he scored. He scored 13 goals, right?

Which is in the group phase, which is, I think, 17 was Ronaldo's record at the time in the Champions League. He's one on his way. He's the guy who comes to the microphones to talk about Vinnie Jr. He's always, I feel like the leader. So I feel like that's a little bit harsh, considering how much he has always put his face in the forefront.

He's always trying to lead the line. He's very supportive to his teammates, always seems to be the guy who's trying to take care of matters on the pitch, as well as being the one on the microphone, speaking to journalists, happy to impart his views. And then I always hear a lot of the times, it being said that actually Vinnie plays better when Embappi is not on the pitch

and if you want to unlock the best Vinny then you don't have Mbapé on the pitch so that he has the full freedom to exploit all the spaces available for him and be the star is there a little bit of unfair criticism sometimes headed towards Mbapé for some reason again I'll put the other side

just for the argument's sake and the Chari Alonso he didn't seem to adapt or want to adapt or could adapt to a series of requirements that you needed for the style that was being put in place. Not just him, others as well.

And at that point, he could have backed the manager a bit more. I think that's the impression that the coaching staff have, that he was, as I said, very focused on his numbers, very focused on, you know, Jules you say,

he wanted to emulate Christiana Ronald sounds like an individual target, not a collective target. Yeah, true, true. But in any case, he has certainly What's wrong with that though? No, no.

Well, this is Real Madrid, right? Nobody's bigger than Real Madrid. But is it? Apart from maybe Cristiano Ronaldo. Yeah. This scheme, sorry to interrupt, is what I find fascinating. I'm not trying to say it's exactly the same

as the Gareth Bale situation, two different players, two different situations. But I can see common ground there. It is part of the issue. Because Rail Madrid are so big, they will feel if any individual individual player, if they get a feeling that they're starting to feel like they are the main attraction, then there's a problem.

And would that be true of a Spanish player as well? Like they used to call it Raul Madrid, for goodness sake. I don't remember people saying that about him. But he left badly and Casillas as well, and so did Gooty. So, yeah, it's not a nationality issue. But that's how they were there. No, no, but how they were there. Well, it helps if you're Spanish and have been through the ranks of Real Madrid.

to understand how far you can go with your ego. And quite clearly there is a limit to what you can do. Carrath-Bale is a completely different situation. Gareth-Bail, and he will admit that now, he didn't speak Spanish, didn't make an effort to adapt himself. Kieran and Bappe, how many languages does he speak, and Spanish is absolutely perfect. It's just that impression.

That, by the way, they had on Cristiano Ronaldo, who was far too much about himself. They loved what he did. Did they love him? not so sure. And when he left, there wasn't many people crying. So Ramadid is above anything. And if you want to try to understand

why they won 15 Champions League, it's partly that, that they are above anybody else. This is why you should never feel that you're above the Euroleagues, guys. The Euroleagues is the brand with just the pieces of the jigsaw. I've just read, sorry,

I've just read the review of your book, Jules. It's brilliant. Have you said it's from James Horncastle? No. You don't see it? It's amazing. It includes your favourite catchphrase. Oh, no, no, no.

He sent it to me. Yeah, okay. Twice. Yeah, yeah. The Athletics James Horncastle on ESPN's Julianne Leone's book. Arguably the finest Paris born and bread journalist on the finest Paris born and bread footballer. Why is he written arguably? Who does he do?

Come on. There's no argument. There's no argument. Thank you. Right. Let's do quite quickly do Atletico, Madrid. And then we're going to finish the year. Euroleagues tonight with a little bit of French Big Sam.

So they are through Atlago, 7-4 on aggregate against Club Bruges. It was four all on aggregate at half-time. Atletti took over. Alexander Soloth scored a hat trick. They've got Liverpool or Tottenham in the last 16, which actually is funny, Guillem, because if I was a palace fan listening to the Euroles, I would be like, that cannot be the same Alexander Soloth that we saw not score a single goal in two years. It very much is.

context and system it's absolutely but we've seen the best sorloth of his career there is no doubt about that but it was absolutely necessary for if you want to look at the bigger picture there was a moment where

the three one where Simeone puts his hands into his head squeezes down Marco Jorente comes in and pushes him into the floor but he's just like wow we are three and the relief was huge

because he feels tested for the first time perhaps in a decade or more at Atlantico Madrid. They earned about 40 million euros, what, 37 million pounds in the Champions League. They absolutely need that kind of money. They need to get into the knockout stages further down if they can into the Champions League to raise the money that's necessary to pay for the squad.

But there is a new owner in Apollo, one of the biggest investments groups in the world, who has brought in a new CEO director of football in Matteo Alemann who is given a little bit what Simeone wants but also demanding a lot so I think Simeone feels that at this point he needs to

start winning things that being the third one in the league is not enough that they're giving him plenty I think Mina mentioned that it's 400 million in the last few years to actually win more and they are in the first leg of the semi-finals of the Cup 4-0 against Barcelona

I think it was the second leg will be the third of March and if they're continuing the Champions League, there's a possibility of doing more money and more prestige and perhaps the future of Simeone guaranteed, but we'll see if he's with Grisman, who's got an offer three-year offer from Orlando City to go to the MLS

now or before the market closes in mid-March. And he's thinking about it. It seems like the noise that comes from Arletical Madrid is that he will go 35, you know, he can choose when he move on, but he's only one

a couple of titles with Alecico Madrid and he's been talking about trying to win more. He's only won the Europa League and the Super Cup and it's got the chance to win the Cup and maybe even the Champions League so it's a decision to be made. How many times have we talked about the long goodbye of Diego Simeone? It's the longest long goodbye of all time which is starting to make me think maybe it won't be goodbye at all. Now but the context is different new owner. I insist on this more than 50% of the shares belong to one group that won the club to succeed or to keep growing.

Not just get the minimum, which is, as I said, for Aletico Madrid, the demand was just to finish in the Champions League, top three. That was it. He kept saying that. And then every now and again, if the team click, he managed to get the league, but there is more now that is demanded of him. You still see an Aletico Madrid

that is very uneven, sometimes very good, sometimes very bad, they want consistency. And Mateo, in mind, this new guy wants him to just give much more than he has given. So it's not just all about him if he continues or not. So for the first time, perhaps, it's fair to say, we're going to have to check this season by season. I was going to say, maybe they just need to buy more Norwegians.

What's going on in Norway? Why are they producing so much talent? I mean, Bodo Glimb. And they won the Winter Olympics? Or not. Yes, exactly. And by the way, you said, Amina, you know where Solath really launched his career, right?

To go full circle. A bodo Glimt, 11 years ago. Perfect. All right, that's it from the Euroleagues. Big thank you to Jules, Mina and Guilla. The next episode of the Football Daily will be The Football Interview. If you want to see a full list of football commentaries on BBC Radio 5 Live this week, just check the description of this podcast. And as always, thank you so much for listening. Five live sport. Our referee for this afternoon. Close her whistle and we are underway there. And she is able to just pick her sport. Purs this way past the best goalkeeper in the division. BBC Women's Football Weekly.

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