Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Main man Mbappe

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Has Kylian Mbappe established himself as Real Madrid's main forward?John Bennett is joined by Guillem Balague, Mina Rzouki and Julien Laurens to look back on the first legs in the Champions League play-off round.They look at Real Madrid's performance in their 3-2 win at Manchester City, looking at Mbappe's role in the side and Carlo Ancelotti's managerial skills. It was also a mixed week for the Italian clubs with victory for Juventus but defeats for AC Milan and Atalanta.08:00 Mbappe - is he the main man? 19:50 Do AC Milan's attacking talents unbalance the rest of the side? 26:30 Controversial penalty decision for Club Brugge against Atalanta 29:10 Out of favour Dusan Vlahovic5 Live/BBC Sounds commentaries this weekend: Sat 15 Feb 1500 Man City v Newcastle, Sat 15 Feb 1730 Crystal Palace v Everton, Sun 16 Feb 1400 Liverpool v Wolves, Sun 16 Feb 1630 Tottenham v Man Utd.

Welcome to the Downs in Bristol and the story of a league that has become a proper Bristol football tradition. This is one of Bristol's hidden treasures. Part of the culture of Bristol Saturday afternoons. There are no away games with everyone playing on the same pitches. In the end they just played with their hearts. Yeah, a very, very special day. Whether you're a player, a fan or someone who just loves the game, the Bristol Downs League is where you belong. There's a unique thing about the Downs, you don't get it anywhere else in Bristol, you don't get it in any other league. That's why the Downs League is so special. I'm Joe Sims and we've spent a year with the players and the teams.

Right lads, get your heads on now, OK? We do that, we do it now. Let's go. Always at home, Bristol's beautiful game. Listen now on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcasts, the EuroLeagues with Jon Bennett. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello and welcome to the EuroLeagues podcast. Joining me this week, Mina Rizuki, Guilhem Balaguey and Julian Lerons. Hello everybody. Hello guys. Because I'm always stuck in the BBC office on Champions League week, I always like to find out where you've all been on

your travels around the world watching football. It's almost like I live vicariously through you all with your travels. And this week, Guilhem, you've been in the BBC office. You've been here with me. You've let me down there. Match of the Day sofa. A few less screens though this time. So it went from 18, didn't it, on the last day of the league stage, down to three. So that must have been slightly easier for you.

I mean, you cannot say I've let you down. This is one of the biggest things I've ever done. It's my second appearance at Match of the Day and it's just,'ve been talking about it since I'm gonna dine on it for years to come. It is about four more I cannot wait. You look fantastic it was a cream suit wasn't it? Would it be fair to say it was cream the colour of your suit? Yeah and I was also on a sports day which is literally three minutes and a half and the last 20 seconds were to praise my suit, so double win. It was fantastic. So you were here with me in sunny Salford. Mina, you've been in Dubai and lots of football clubs have been out there, haven't they?

The team's not involved in Champions League games. They've been getting some winter sunshine. Did you spot any Arsenal players on your travels around? Yeah, Arsenal are here. They were here on Monday. We were there to see them and obviously you know that they suffered an injury. So not so great for Kai Havertz being here. Nottingham Forest were here last week. Roberto Carlos is doing a meet and greet. There's just so many footballers here at the moment so prime time to get some winter sun and see some footballers. Dropping some early names in Euroleagues, we love it. And Julien, you have been on your travels as well. Somebody has to work here, probably, you know.

But, you know, we associate Champions League with glamour, don't we? We don't really associate it with second division side Genghis Stadium. But that's where Brest were playing Paris Saint-Germain. What was it like then? Obviously Paris Saint-Germain were brilliant, we'll talk about that in just a moment. What's the stadium like? Did it feel like a Champions League atmosphere? No it didn't but to be fair the atmosphere was great. There was a thousand PSG fans who were there, 14,000 Brest fans who travelled an hour East to go from breast where the

stadium is not good enough to play in the Champions League for them to play in the Champions League so they had to move to Gangon. I think Gangon is probably one of the few if not the only city or town because actually it's actually a town where the stadium is actually bigger than the amount of people who live in the town because they have 8,000 people who live in Ganga and the stadium is a 15,000 seater So I don't know if there's another one like that where there's more seats in the stadium than actually Habitants in the city, but that they're one of them. It's a good trip If you haven't been to Brittany, you should go it's a lovely part of the world. The weather was great

It was a bit nippy but the weather was great. And the game was fantastic because of, again, the Ousmane Dembele performance, the PSG's performance, and the fact that they almost are pretty much qualified already before the second leg. Yet again, Ousmane Dembele, as you say, brilliant quotes from Luis Enrique after the game. So he scored two goals, didn't he, Ousmane Dembele? What is it now? 18 goals in 10 games. So he's been fantastic.

So he's only five goals in 17 games before mid-December. Now suddenly he's on this run. So Luis Enrique said, you have to ask him what he had to eat at Christmas. So we're all wondering, what was the Christmas dinner that inspired this amazing run of form? It's a great question because we are looking,

we are looking at stats, we're looking at the way he takes his shots, how he shoots, the difference, is he closer to the goal, he plays as a 4-9 now instead of playing wide so I guess it's easier. We're looking at all of that, we're asking Luis Enrique and they do a lot of work together, visualization, video analysis, on the training pitch, all of that which is normal, everybody would do it. But there must be something else, I guess, maybe just purely the confidence, maybe that momentum that is carrying him now because he's never really been in that form.

It's not like a striker who has great moments and then a bit of a dip and then great moments again. For him, it's never been like this. He's just scored 10 goals in two weeks, in 15 days, which even other strikers in the world are not doing right now because he's the top goal scorer in 2025 so far. Let me add to that background a couple of things on Dembele.

One, and this is surprising to me, I hear from the coaches that he loves football, he loves to understand the game, and he seemed this clumsy guy that would just shoot badly when he was at Barcelona, but he is working very hard in improving every single detail, as Jules says. The other thing is there was a conversation with Luis Enrique in pre-season when he was told, Usman was told, if you actually compare more chances, a little bit more, it doesn't have to be 100%,

few more chances, you're gonna become the best goal scorer, our best player, of course, with Mbappe going. And that was followed up by coaches who knew of that conversation and went to Dembele, Ballon d'Or, Ballon d'Or. If you actually keep scoring, Ballon d'Or, Ballon d'Or, you're going to be winning. If we win collectively, you will win individually as well. So I think that's got into his head. But on the back of the game is the best stat of this week, I think, in my opinion. So then Belair scored 10 goals in his last four matches, right? Messi's highest goal tally over four matches was 13 goals and Cristiano's 11 goals. And he absolutely

belongs to a sentence with those two monsters. He doesn't feel like he's lucky. What is it? Me table to lose away at the weekend, two more goals, three more goals. Could happen. Wow. So we're talking Ballon d'Or, we're talking Messi, Ronaldo, Mina, we had a chat a little bit about this last week.

Dembele, did we see this coming? You weren't here, so I wanted to get your take on it. Did you see this return to form from Dembele coming, or did you always feel he'd be one of those players that we talk about what could have been? No, I think that when he left Barcelona, you felt the absence. When he didn't play when he was there at Barcelona

and he didn't play certain matches, you felt like you could see the absence. You could feel the absence. And I think that he's always been special, but you don't know whether it's an emotional thing. Is it right now that he's feeling all this confidence, or he's able to give you the return? He feels like this is his club. Also, there seems to be a happy atmosphere.

On Friday, they announced all the contract extensions. There seems to be something different in the way that PSG, their mood has lightened. Whereas I guess at the start of the season there was a bit more pressure, we're talking about the Champions League, were they going to make it with lots of losses, they weren't converting chances. And now it seems to be a different atmosphere going on, you know, and obviously like a huge win over Brest. They feel confident as soon as that draw was made because of that history and I don't know

whether that has a lot to do with how the players perform as well, when the club in general has a lighter feel about it. Let's talk Real Madrid, this blockbuster match at the Etihad, spectacular ending, Jude Bellingham scoring the late winner for Real Madrid, they won the first leg of their playoff tie 3-2. So, Guillaume, a few times this season we've talked about whether Real Madrid would be unbalanced with all these attacking options, but they had Vinicius Jr. on the pitch, Rodrigo on the pitch, Bellingham, Mbappe, and they got the job done. Does that mean that we're seeing that Ancelotti is solving this puzzle about how to fit everyone

in? The puzzle was in the feet and in the minds of the players really. And Celadu said from the beginning, success will come if the team defends. And it's fair that we focus on the defending on this game because first of all, they equaled or were quite close to Manchester City in possession. So they could control matters. That was the first thing compared to, for instance, you know, City had 67% in the quarterfinals last season. They only had 54%. So you're talking about a team that could keep the ball in Real Madrid, so could determine what's going on. But he also, actually, they wanted the team to be compact and not to just go and pressure like crazy men, he described it. And that didn't happen. The couple of times

where they pressure like a crazy man and disorganized city had a couple of chances. But he admitted on Celote that he didn't know the team was willing to sacrifice themselves that well. And what happened was that I think the individuals that formed that defense, as well as, you know, the big names that defended a front, just kind of surprised him. It started with the fact that the back four, they never played together. Sorry, they never trained together. And that's admitted by Antilotti himself. They hadn't trained together. And they were absolutely fantastic. You've got on one hand, Valverde, who defended really well, was difficult to beat, but also had three shots on goal. So it was good in both boxes.

Chouamany, who's becoming better in that position, was one of the players that touched the ball the most, but the one who actually passed more often was Asensio, who was, for me, perhaps man of the match. And it's difficult to give him that kind of award because you need to look very close to what he was doing. But what he was doing is that he stopped Haaland, committed zero fouls and won 100% of the duels with Haaland. So that back four makes you back four with only Mendy left back that you will expect to stay there when everybody returns. The rest were just outstanding.

The team defended well and that makes them closer to success. That's a really good point, isn't it, Mena? Because we hear a lot of managers making excuses about injuries, naming no names. But Ranwit should have had lots of injury problems at the back. But again, Carlo Ancelotti, I don't know if I might have not heard this but I haven't heard him talking too much about injuries or trying to make excuses. Again, he finds the answers.

How impressed were you by Real Madrid earlier this week? Most of the talk has been about Man City throwing it away, but what did you make of Real Madrid's performance? This was always going to be a tough match, because obviously it's Madrid versus Man City, although it's not the best versions of each team. But this is, I think, what plays into what Carlo Ancelotti does so well on a mental level. And I think that's what sets him apart a lot of the times,

is that he creates the atmosphere that makes you always believe in yourself. He doesn't give anyone excuses. So it's a case of, yes, we could be down and out. We have lots of injuries. We don't have what it is that perhaps we need right now to be the best versions of ourselves. But it's like last season.

They didn't have a striker. They didn't need a striker. They can work without a striker. Whereas a lot of the time, you'll hear about clubs, oh, can they do it without a striker? He never complains about anything he doesn't have. He always makes it clear that he's got the best players in the world.

And that reminds the players that he has got the best players in the world. And that reminds the players that he has that they do have to fight, that there are no excuses, that it doesn't matter whatever and whoever they're without, that they are enough, that they are better or superior to whoever the opponent is. And I think that changes the mentality that you've got of a team. And I think that is what he does on a mental level. Jules, what did you make of Real Madrid? Killing Mbappe, a bit of a fluky goal. We both scored goals like that on the five-a-side pitch. Yeah, you especially. Mine are always clean.

But he's the main man now, isn't he? I know Jude Bellingham got the winner late on. But what is it? Scored in seven of his last nine games, 24 goals this season. Yeah, 24 is a big number. And I think he also knows he has to do it in the Champions League really. And he could have scored a hat-trick easily, he should probably have scored a hat-trick and he's scored, he fluffed that one as we said, hit it on his shin and I think Texas Edison by surprise really, there were easier chances than that one because this one is a difficult one on that ball from Sebaius to score that he didn't score. He was not happy

after the game because of the chances that he missed but you're right another goal the momentum is there. I think that front four will create chances against anybody and it would be a case of can Real Madrid actually win games without the ball because with the ball they are that front four is just too good if they stay fit, stay on good form they are they just they're just so so good it's more when they don't have the ball and yeah we said they defended a little bit better I just don't think that they can do it against better team than City. City are just not very good right now it's a fact they're just not very good they were 2-1 up and we really wondered how they were actually 2-1 up. They never deserved to be 2-1 up.

So I'm waiting to see a better opponent against Real Madrid. I think they will qualify so they will face a better team sooner rather than later. And we will see if that balance is managed, how they press, how they defend without the ball, because that would be the key. With the ball, no problem. Without the ball, I'm still waiting to see. I want to take issue with something John has said. Is that the expression?

Yeah. I'm glad it's John. I was worried it was me. Is it me saying that Papa is the main man? No, John. What do I say? You said that all the managers use excuses, unlike Ancelotti, right?

You cannot compare Real Madrid to anybody. Not only they are outliers, what they get is the best around, the best players, players that can adapt because they're so good, they can do so many things. While others, I don't know if you were referring to Manchester City, but others get specialists. So the way you're playing requires players that can fill a role. You take one of those away, perhaps the best in the world, not perhaps, the best in the world in that position, Lin Rodri, and the whole thing collapses, especially if you don't have a replacement

because they all get injured. So to say, ah look, he doesn't use excuses while others do, I just wanted to know to finish who were you referring to? No I wasn't referring to one, oh here we can't be put on the spot, I wasn't actually referring to Manchester City or one particular manager but some people would take issue with the fact that Manchester City should have the resources to cope with a few injuries as well Guillaume. But as I've just said, they go for a different brand of football that has to do collective performance and orchestra, playing everybody at their best and then you take the specialists and then

gaps get produced and it's not easy because they are a specialist. You kind of put, you know, a winger in a in a centre midfield position. Normally you have to, because this got so many roles from responsibilities You cannot just do that. At Real Madrid They're so good that you can get your many as a center midfield You can become a binger as a left back you can get Bellingham Whatever you want in the page you can get Mbappe left and right and center So it's a completely different thing you cannot but generally generally

You cannot compare anything to Real Madrid. They just do, they've got their own rules, their own laws and they're completely outliers. They just do their thing in their own way. And Jude Bellingham's writing his own rules, isn't he, Mina? It's amazing these late goals that he keeps coming up with. What do you think it is about him where he's always able to produce in these big moments? We can name so many examples of when he's been able to come up with the goods at the right time late in a game. Yeah, exactly. Against Haddafi, against Altevigo,

against Slovakia in the Euros. Wasn't it in his first classico as well? I'm trying to remember that. Yeah, the one in Montjuic. Wasn't it his first two? Didn't he score two late goals in his first season? Yeah. There we go. And in first halves, overall, he scored 12. In second halves, he scored 22. So it's like he comes alive in the second half. And I think that there is something

about him where one of the things that he mentioned about coming to Madrid is what he loves is that capability of managing remontadas, but also of always fighting until the end to have these superb, you know, they make the competition so fun to watch because they know how to come back and he's so bought into that, he so loves that culture and is part of it. And the way that you saw Quilín Mbappe also celebrate,

it just shows you what Madrid feel and believe in their ability to always fight back, that they're always capable of defeating the opponent. And that's the mentality they've got now. Whereas, for example, Man City right now, because of the trauma that they faced, and Guardiola talks about it, that they're unsure of themselves.

And so it's like, oh my God, we've conceded. It's only a matter of time before we concede more because of everything they're going through. Milan just keep going back to their recent history, right? Whereas we're always going to win and it's something that's infected the team. It's also his ability to make these very quick decisions at the end. That's what makes Bellingham so special. This is Five Live Sports. The Euroleagues with John Bennett. Listen on BBC

Sounds. Listen on BBC Sounds. Vincent Company is a Premier League legend. Goal from the Manchester City captain. They'll remember that for years and years and years. And now he's an up and coming head coach who's had a meteoric rise. From under-elect, promotion and relegation with Burnley to being appointed at one of the biggest clubs in world football. Ryan Munich have confirmed the appointment of Vincent Company.

It feels like Company is the golden boy in football management right now and I want to find out why. He's been a trailblazer quite a lot of his life, quite a lot of his career. This is Football Daily. Vincent Company, the golden boy. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is Five Live Sport. The EuroLeagues with John Bennett. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is EuroLeagues on Five Live Sport with Julien Laronz, Muna Rizuki, me, John Bennett and Guillaume Balaguer,

who's got me in trouble with Manchester City fans and Pep Guardiola. An eventful week for Italian clubs in the Champions League. Juventus beat PSV Eindhoven 2-1 with a late-ish winner. AC Milan lost though, not a good performance from them. Atalanta lost as well. One of the most bizarre penalty decisions I have seen for a long time. I hope you all watch this one. I wanna get your take on it. And Gian Piero Gasparini was unhappy, threw off his coat in disgust.

So we'll get to that in a moment. But first AC Milan, that was a poor performance, wasn't it Mina, against Fire Noor. The Italian press made quite a big thing about the Fab Four, they called it. So Jimenez, Rafael Liao, Pulisic and Gilles Felix in attack. They were called the Fab Four but it wasn't a fabulous performance, a 1-0 defeat. Was it worrying for

Milan? Did they look unbalanced with all those four attacking talents on the pitch at the same time? Well it's much of a similar problem to what we talked about when it came to Real Madrid, right, against like the Barcelona's or against big teams. Can you really afford to play with so many attackers? Does that destabilize the midfield and your ability to counter attack, which obviously this is what happened with Fire Nord. They were able to use their pace and attack directly and make the difference. And I think that's what you see when you're playing with four attackers a lot of the time, unless they're willing to sacrifice.

And now this is the question. And Kwan Sae Sao has been brought in, largely because he's trying to change the mentality of the squad that has a lot of talent, but not necessarily a team that has a fighting mentality that is willing to die for the cause, that it very much sort of what he is all about, right? He's a coach who's all about giving everything.

It's his passion, it's his drive, it's his ambition to fight for everything. And that's what he's hoping to be a contagious quality and hopefully that his team can represent that. And at times you see that, but he was critical, much like Fonseca was before him, of this team not being one that wants to win all the duels, that wants to fight for every ball, that is willing to do the hard stuff, which is go back and track.

We've sat here and criticised Mbappe for not doing enough, and we're talking about the world's best player. Oh, you know, who does Mbappe think he is when he doesn't want to go back and track? And this is what you're not seeing from Milan forwards. It's almost like, yeah, it's all good and well when you have the ball but what are you doing when you don't have the ball are you doing enough to help your team is Kyle Walker alone defensively are you actually helping your full backs who haven't always been at their best whether it's Teo who hasn't been the best this season or Emerson Royale before it and it's Kyle Walker now are

they're being aided by everyone else in attack and these are the question marks that are asked about Raphael Léaul. You want to be the best, then show me the best. Show what you can do out of possession. And even when he was in possession, he wasted a great opportunity in the counterattack. But there's another side to this, which is these players have just arrived, right? Jimenez has just arrived. I mean, Jau Felix has just arrived. And putting them all together is never going to reap the rewards straight away.

So this takes time and Konsei Sao hasn't had time because he's playing every three days to actually create the right patterns of play to help this team move forward in an attacking way. You do have to sometimes do this as a baptism of fire. Keep throwing it in, you know, play the four. You're not going to necessarily win straight away, but eventually they're going to find their rhythm together, they're going to learn how to play together. Should you be doing it in such an important match is the question, absolutely. And he's got all these new players, everyone wants to watch these new players play together, but this is what you're going to get with so many attackers if they're not willing to sacrifice. So I don't know whether this is a question of they just need time to gel together. They don't have the time. So is he right to have done this?

I understand his logic behind it, but I can also understand with the other idea, which is practically speaking on a pragmatic level, probably not the game to do it, when you know right now the qualification to the knockout stages, to the last 16, is imperative, not just for financial reasons, but for the reputation and history of Milan. I don't think that front four can work together. I don't think he works for the team. I think your best player so far this season is Tijani Reinders.

And the fact that you want to play with our front four takes away so much that what Reinders can bring and has brought to this team earlier in the season. And because there's not the space for him to run into and have those late run into the box, scoring the goals like he's been scoring before. I don't understand how you can prioritize Joel Felix to teach any Reinders in a team like this, in a game like this.

And I know Magic Mike made a rare mistake and he got slaughtered by the media today. It's very now. Rare mistake. It's been quite a few this season. Really, tell me this season, which one? The season that he's done against Koma, against...

Yeah. Anyway, I mean, I just think that this team with 87 minutes to go after that goal that he conceded, I should not have conceded, that you shouldn't have conceded, it was just the performance was not good enough. And I hear the, let's be more aggressive, let's fight, let's do this. Why about you just try to play football as well? Because you can win all your duels,

this team is still not playing football the way it should with the players that they have. There was only three high turnovers from AC Milan in the whole game. So three times that the Fab Four managed to steal the ball from the rivals when they were building up. So I think the Fab Four is going to become a duo. And see if you agree with me that the two that will actually survive this, and for me it's going to be Santiago Jiménez, no doubt, and Pulisic. And I know Leao has got fans and perhaps hasn't got an immediate replacement, but his way

of playing, his behaviour has already been pointed out by our previous manager. Let's see if he can convince Contencal. But surely he can't drop Rafael Leao. Do You surely can't drop Raphael Liao. Do you think you would drop Raphael Liao? Yes, Fonseca dropped him. And right now, actually, I mean, Joe Felix got a lot of compliments in his first two games. He was complimented in his performance against Empoli,

the one before. They do see the value of what he's doing. I mean, there's a lot of, like, obviously it wasn't a great performance against Weinyard. And there's been questions about, you know, I mean, Kaltso Mardkattel wrote this amazing thing which is he's a player constantly on a mission towards aesthetic perfection, which sort of strips him of the pragmatism, right? He's always looking for something so perfect.

But they talked about him as being illuminating. There were so many compliments for him. But in this particular match, what you noticed is he played better when he was on the left, which is Raphael Léaille's position, right? But the question is, is Fonseca drop Léaille? Because it doesn't feel that he gets, he gets him to fight for the team, to really give all that it takes. He's inconsistent. And so are you getting enough from Léaille? Yes, he's very talented, but is he showing you that on a consistent basis? Is he acting like a leader?" And he did, and his post-match conference said, well, I know that we weren't gritty enough and we didn't show enough, but are you taking

responsibility for that? And I think he does, and I think there's different ways of how you sort of handle this player, which has been talked about a lot in Italy, because Fonseca decided to just bench him But you know and and this the concesal was supposed to bring out a different side to him But I think eventually he'll be benched again. So to this Atalanta penalty then Jules. Did you see it? So it was the Swedish defender Isaac Kean. He held off his compatriot Gustav Nilsson He kind of swung his arm around and the hand caught caught Nilsson's face I don't think I've ever seen Jules a penalty given for an incident like that, both running away from goal and Gian Piero Gasparini was furious afterwards, he said, football is going

in a direction that isn't football, led by I don't know who. The players throw themselves into steel, they all try to get a penalty, this is not the spirit of football, the rules are crazy. I couldn't really see an argument for a penalty to be given there. No, no, Mini, that it was a ridiculous decision, I think we all agree to that. Grisav Nielsen, by the way, is like 10 foot tall and he fell on the floor like literally he was a small child or something and pretended to be here on the right hand side where clearly you could see that he was on the other cheek as well. So there was a lot of weird things and I think Martin De Roon, who was the Atalanta captain,

was obviously shielding the referee because all the Atalanta players were not happy. But he looked on his face that he kind of almost, don't worry, VAR has got this. VAR is going to tell him to go and watch the screen. He's going to go and watch the screen and he's going to come back onto his decision because this is ridiculous. It really looked like De Roon and some of the Atalanta players were like, don't't worry it's okay that's what we are VAR yeah we are VAR to repair those kind of mistakes and no not this time no it was one of the worst penalties I've ever seen. Yeah I was convinced it would be overturned what about the second leg then just quickly Mina do you think

Atalanta will turn this around because you know penalty aside club Brugge was the better side in this game Atalanta didn't play well at all do you think they will turn it around next week? Well you side in this game. Atalanta didn't play well at all, do you think they will turn it around next week? Well, you always have to believe in Atalanta, but they do have a lot of injuries. They were without many players, you know, they've got defensive ailments, they don't have a lookman available to them. Then they were hoping that Skamaka would come back. He came on, got injured like in Serie A after a few minutes and taken off. And so he's out for the rest of the season. They are a threadbare at the moment.

They've got so many absences, you know, Colasinan. So I don't know. But then do you ever want to go against Gasparini? That's the question because I do think Club Brugge, I mean, they won 20 matches undefeated and then everyone's like, well, that's just so overrated. But they have been good. They have been a team that has created problems for different teams and I think this is gonna be tough for them but I just never want to bet against Gasparini because even when much like

Ancelotti even when he doesn't have the players he finds the magic. I hope someone picked up his coat after he threw it away and he stormed down the tunnel. It's such an Italian thing. If you remember Allegri, do you remember Allegri in the Coppa Italia? It's just, it's always like, you know, when they get angry, they just start taking their clothes off. Juventus didn't get angry. They beat PSV 2-1 on Tuesday. So a slender lead that they can take to the Netherlands next week. But I want to talk about Dusan Vlaović. Again, left out of the starting 11. He was once the big star of the team, the hopes on his shoulders. Now I think I'm right in saying he's only

started one match in all competitions for Juve so far in 2025. So do you think the writing is on the wall for him, is Juve's future, because Randall Colomuani's come in and he started really well already, Meena. Absolutely and I think that we didn't expect such a terrific start from Colomuani's come in and he's started really well already, Meena. Absolutely. And I think that we didn't expect such a terrific start from Colomuani, but he's been able to produce the goods. More importantly, he's been such a refreshing presence in the dressing room. Everyone's spoken about how lovely he is, how keen he is to do well, and he seems to be absolutely loving it there. From a technical point of view,

I think that there's been question marks with Lovic and I think that he's been unlucky in the sense that he's had Max Allegri to deal with, which is a very defensive coach, and then Thiago Modde, who isn't perhaps somebody who is willing to attack at all stages, but is somebody who is fond of balance, which means, you know, he doesn't have the kind of service that he's looking for. I guess when Vlaović was at his very best, he was under Vincenzo Italiano at Fiorentina. Now this is a coach who's taken over Bologna from Thiago Modde and they're already ahead in points from where they were last season and last season they had a terrific

Xerxie and Calafiore. So he is a very attacking coach, he's doing tremendous things at Bologna, he did tremendous things at Fiorentina with reaching the Conference League finals and that's when Vlaoavic was at his best. Obviously, lots of money paid. But the issue, I think, with Vlavic, which everyone talks about, is that it's an emotional one. Is he technically limited? Because he is a fox in the box, but can he do anything else?

Can he tie up the game in the way that Thiago Mota wants? Is he good enough with his... Well, he's not good enough with his back to gold, which is something that I think that they need. And most importantly, he seems to ride waves emotionally. So it's either he's beating himself up all the time. It's like he expects so much from himself that... It's almost like that's the curse. I mean, it's wonderful because he wants to do so much.

But the problem is that he is fighting against himself, and he is on a very high salary. Juventus is trying to be sustainable and they know that they've asked him, they can extend his contract if he knows how, if they can spread that payment over a longer period of time and he seems to have said no to it. I think he's had about enough. It's not going well for him either. So it doesn't seem to fit in Tiago Monta's plans, especially not when Colomboani is doing

so well. But from a budget point of view, they own Vlaović. So benching him is not great from that point of view because financially his value is just going down. Meanwhile, they're raising the value of a player they do not own and might not be able to keep. So, from a financial point, again, we talk about should you be starting Colomboani or should you be trying to getwani or should you be trying

to get the best out of a player that you actually own and that financially you need to sell at a high level to recoup the funds? You touch on Edmina, it's quite clearly the case that she doesn't seem to have the head in the right place. Perhaps he feels, as you say, that it's not his place in the world. And I just wonder if his head has been turned, as it's been rumored, and that perhaps he's already seen himself next season somewhere else, Arsenal maybe.

If that was the case, for somebody that at the beginning of his contract, how much would he cost? Right now, how much would he cost to go? Yeah, if he goes to Arsenal, say. I think they will try to ask for his money. They will probably ask around 50, 60 million, but I don't know if they'll get that. Here's the thing. He's top scorer right now, right?

But in 1,322 minutes, I was looking at this, yeah, he's managed eight goals. And in 200 and something minutes, Colin Wiley has managed five, right? So he is top scorer, but look at the difference in minutes of how long it's taking him. If the less they play him, the more that they're gonna devalue him. And so eventually it's gonna be less and less, but yes, they would need to break even.

So we're looking at 50, 40 million. Is he good enough for Arsenal, Jules, you think? I'm looking at his stats. So his first season, 21 appearances, nine goals. Then 42 appearances, 14 goals season 21 appearances, 9 goals, then 42 appearances, 14 goals, 38 appearances, 18 goals, 29 appearances, 13 goals this season. That's not great, is it? No, I mean last season he had Allegri as a coach and Juve were playing Allegri ball,

so it would have been difficult for any striker to score goals in a team like that to start with. Arsenal were looking at him when he was at Fiorentina. He chose Juventus ahead of Arsenal, for example. I think Arteta has always been a fan. The problem is not maybe so much the transfer fee or what Juve would want is that he's on enormous wages. And I think NetMina is something like, yeah, exactly 12 million, which is a lot of money.

He signed one of those contracts where his wages were going up year after year, those progressive contract that a lot of money. He signed one of those contracts where his wages were going up year after year, those progressive contracts that a lot of players are signing right now, but that could be difficult for clubs to sustain when the player that is on that kind of money is not delivering what you are paying him for and right now you're paying, he's the highest, one of the highest paid players in Serie A and he's on the bench, he's on your bench. And like Mena says, it's a striker that you have on loan, who you are paying but not as much as Vlaović, that is starting ahead of him and that's wrong. So he will obviously live in the semi, he has no other choice. He can't stay and they won't want to keep him and he won't want to stay

either. So it'd be very interesting to see where he goes and who can afford those wedges or if he has to take a pecker. And the fans must be loving Randall Carlo-Muani, Mina, the way that he started. He's come straight in and hit the ground running. Yeah, I think that what's interesting is this conversation where we had about whether or not he was coming and, you know, and Jules was saying, you is he is he technically limited and I think you can see that he is technically limited and he's not great with his ball with his back to goal either so it's not like he's the perfect player but I the way that he is fit into the dressing room the way that everyone's talking about him right now

the ambition that he's showing and his first goal over the weekend it is that against Como it's like one chance, one goal. You're not dithering. He's just, he's very, it's almost the reaction is so good, but everyone keeps telling me, oh, this is just the beginning. This is just the beginning. And so the fans are just waiting

for the other shoe to drop, you know? But yes, right now, like I told you from the stats, 207 minutes in Serie A, five goals already. He rescued Juventus over the weekend. Everyone thought that he was gonna score in the Champions League, he's just been on fire and he seems to be a great addition. But you know, Lloyd Kelly, other players, fans are upset. Yeah, Lloyd Kelly didn't do so well.

You don't have to talk about him. What fans saying about Lloyd Kelly wasn't very convincing apparently, I didn't think he did too badly, did he? Well, there's been so much criticism in the newspaper and I think people are critical of the media being so critical. But that's what you get when you play for Juventus is that people will tear you to shreds, right? And I think you have to see this from a different point of view because Juventus, and we've talked about this when I have my rant on UV, have a sporting director called Juntoni who decided to sell someone like Dean Heelson for 17 million who is grew up in Juventus Academy, next-gen player, potential of that, you know, to be a great player who went to Bournemouth because you know, they needed the money, right?

He's gone to do so well. Meanwhile, you're bringing in Lloyd Kelly who's made his seventh start, doesn't have the experience, didn't grow up at Juventus, you're going to pay 20 million. So if you needed the money, is this how you should be spending your money? Why not keep your own youth product who understands the environment rather than throw Lloyd Kelly into the deep? Of course, they were not knowing that this was going to be their situation at the back, where they lost every single player from Kalulu to Gleason Bremer and Juan Cabal and then obviously Cambiaso as well now recently.

So they didn't know that this was going to happen. But I think Juventus in their heads, they had their own legion of boon, if you like, Seattle Seahawks in the NFL. They had the BBC, they had Barzali and Bonucci and Chilini and Gianluigi Buffon behind them. So they expect those levels of defenders. To bring in Lloyd Kelly for 20 when you let go of a youth product for 17, you have to look at it from that angle and that's how the media have been so harsh. That's the guy that you've chosen. He could be amazing. It's two games. It's a little bit mean to be so harsh on him for sure. But

you know what? You guys are harsh on Xerxe when he arrived. You were harsh on Hernando when he arrived. So let's talk about the English media. I think that it's just normal when you're at a big club that people are always going to just come in and talk. Mina, Guilhem, Jules, thank you very much. The second legs of the Champions League playoffs are on Tuesday and Wednesday. Celtic travel to Bayern Munich on Tuesday, followed by Real Madrid against Manchester City 24 hours later. Commentary of both matches will be on Five Live. As ever, thank you for listening. Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful British manager of all time.

South Shore has won the European Cup for Manchester United. So how did this apprentice toolmaker from Glasgow become one of the most iconic figures in sporting history? His strength, the character, his determination, the fight in him. Ferguson was every department. He can be persuasive, he can be charming, he can be frightening. Go down as the best, as simple as that. I'm Kelly Cates and this is Sporting Giants, Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to feel, I couldn't feel.

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