Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Mbappe and Courtois return from international exile

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

John Bennett is joined by Julien Laurens, Guillem Balague and Kristof Terreur to discuss Kylian Mbappe and Thibaut Courtois returning from the international wilderness.We ask whether Virgil van Dijk is heading to PSG and if a strong Barcelona equates to a strong Spain.And why are Real Madrid threatening to boycott La Liga games?Topics: 00: 34 - Players reporting for international duty like they're walking the catwalk 05:09 - Kylian Mbappe returns for France after six-month hiatus 15:54 - Desire Doue's first France call-up and PSG's new approach to recruitment 21:02 - Virgil van Dijk's future 24:33 - Thibaut Courtois returns for Belgium after 18-month absence 34:28 - Rudi Garcia as new Belgium head coach 36:43 - Does a strong Barcelona equate to a strong Spain? 42:11 - Carlo Ancelotti says Real Madrid shouldn't play La Liga games if they're not given 72 hours between matchesBBC Sounds/ 5 Live commentaries this week: Greece v Scotland - Nations League playoff - 19:45 - Thursday 20th March England v Albania - World Cup qualifier - 19:45 - Friday 21st March Man City v Chelsea - Women’s Super League - 19:45 - Sunday 23rd March England v Latvia - World Cup qualifier - 19:45 - Monday 24th March

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcasts, the EuroLeagues with John Bennett. Listen on BBC Sounds. Welcome to EuroLeagues on the Football Daily Podcast. Hello from me, John Bennett. Great to have you with us. It's international break, so an international football feel to the pod today. But don't worry, we will be talking club football as well with Julien Larrons, Guillaume Balaguez and Christophe Thurer. Good to speak to you again guys. Hello to you all. Now I can't believe I'm allowing this to happen again,

but we are going to start with some fashion chat. As you know, I'm on shaky ground here, but the trend started by Jules' France national team of turning up to international duty as if you're walking the catwalk has caught on with other countries. Have you seen this, Jules? You are the trendsetter.

The Netherlands and Austria turning up to international duty in fashionable gear now as well. Did you see this? Yeah, I saw that. And I think this is really good that the French has the inspiration and everybody follows. So we had Virgil van Dijk, I'm going to get to you in a moment Christophe because he's shaking his head, but we had Virgil van Dijk turning up, this is descriptions by the way, not from me, from a website called the Red Carpet Fashion Awards website.

So Virgil van Dyck turned up in a brown Aviator bomber jacket which adds an elevated touch to his beige and brown ensemble. David Alaba at Austria turned up with a statement bag which were trending on international duty apparently. He turned up carrying a khaki green bag which perfectly complemented his mauve jeans and last but not least, Kylian Mbappé opted for a varsity jacket. He kept things polished by avoiding the full tracksuit route and instead pairing it with smart trousers. Why are you shaking your head Christophe? Well I don't think this is really a trend or maybe in Belgium this trend has already been passed because I remember like in 2017 the Belgian national team, they started filming the players

arriving at the national camp and they showed up in all those funny clothes and it became a bit of a laughing stuff with the fans and now they're not doing it anymore since a year because yeah they turned up in silly fashion like Pachewa was the king of all colors so we have already get rid of this trend so it's not a trend anymore. So you're saying it was Belgium that started it? Well I don't know if we should not fight since 2017. Like people were writing about, oh, he turns up in that gear or that fashion. So maybe it has become a trend because the French, they have a bigger exposure.

They suddenly go worldwide. But isn't that, isn't that, um, where football is going, individual training, uh, individual, uh, fashion sense. And I tell you what, the thing I would hate the most, if I was a professional player is having to wear the same clothes as everybody else all the time. And I will try to tell my national coach, cause I'll be international, of course, to let me have my shirts. Otherwise it's not me. So you don't want to be like everybody else. There was a time where, I guess, that was reflected society doesn't anymore. We all are our own people, aren't we? Look at me and Jules. We've turned up in our

Euroleaks gear, our black shirts and you're wearing your funny, very colourful shirt. It says a lot about me though, that I would be more nervous about getting out of the car, heading into the National Team Hotel in supposedly fashionable gear than I would be playing the game and maybe that's why the England team, Guillaume, they still turn up in track suits, don't they? I mean you've lived in England a long time, what does that say about us as a national team? I think Tuchel will win that, Gareth Southgate perhaps will be a little bit less strong on that, but it does say that there is a need to everybody feel like they are in a team with the same purpose, all thinking the same.

That's the aim of the national side, of course. But there is space, or there should be space for fashion, and there's no more fashionable people or, let's say, more people obsessed about fashion than the English players. I mean, when they have the opportunity to walk around for restaurants and all that, they wear amazing, wonderful things. They did look good, to be fair. I've got the pictures here, the likes of Alabaan and Van Dijk and Mbappe.

Producer Craig wanted me to ask who the worst dressed person on Euroleague is, but we all know the answer is me. So we'll move on. I beat you to it, Jules. On Euroleagues today, we will talk Thibaut Courtois' controversial return to the Belgium national team and why Barcelona's great form is great news for the Spain national team heading to the World Cup next year. But let's start with Kylian Mbappe back with the France squad as we

heard turning up very fashionably this week for the first time in six months. So he was left out of France's squad for the October internationals with manager Didier Deschamps saying he didn't want to take the risk on his fitness. Then he left him out of his squad in November, what he called a one-off, but it did lead to a lot of speculation about his international future and it was controversial because on both occasions Mbappe was fit enough to play for his club Real Madrid. So Jules, has it been a stress-free return from Mbappe to the France camp? Any issues behind the scenes still unresolved, do you think?

No, not so far. I mean, they're playing tonight on Thursday night against Croatia in Split for their first leg of the Nations League quarterfinals. So it'll be quite a big game. But from Monday when you arrived at lunchtime on time, not like Desiree Douais and Warren Zairemri, who were a little bit late, but Kylian on time. It's been pretty perfect, but you know, in this kind of environment, he's always perfect.

He did a couple of interviews, one with the news on TF1, which is massive, obviously in France, one with the Parisian newspaper on Monday, as soon as he got off the plane. And this press conference on Wednesday was faultless as well. He knew exactly what to say to defend Rabiot or Forfana who had been victims of abuse online for Forfana or at the Par de Prince for Rabiot and his family, things like that.

He was very good in everything he said. He even admitted that in September, so the last time that he was with the national team, like you said, JB six months ago, his press conference before the Italy game, it was not right. He didn't behave like a leader like he should have. So even for his standards to show a bit of contrition, we're not used to that. So he was very good for him. So he was just, he's been perfect so far for his return to the team. I was just going to say, Jules, because I didn't hear his voice talk in the last few days,

but he's made a lot of headlines in Spain, in France as well. And isn't it a little bit out of character, as in he tends to say things that don't make the headlines, or at least not massive things, but it feels like he's in a kind of defensive mode, maybe trying to explain what has happened, trying to explain his form up and down, trying to, or is it just his way of leading the national side? There's something strange about so many words

coming from him. No, I mean, he really talks anyway outside of the press conferences. So I think this time because he hadn't been there for six months, because there were still a few things that we were wondering, I think he kind of anticipated almost and did those two interviews, which were big and there was a lot of things to say about. Deschamps leaving after the 2026 World Cup, potentially Zidane arriving, the fact that he hadn't been there for six months, the Real Madrid up and down.

And I thought he answered all really, really well, but he just wanted to be in control again of the narrative. the Real Madrid up and down. And I thought he answered all really, really well, but he just wanted to be in control again of the narrative. And he's very good, him and his people are very good at controlling things anyway. He's very smart. And that's why I think his first interview in Le Parisien was very good. Then for the television, the news on TF1, very good again.

And then he finished it off by the press. And now we won't hear him again. I'm not even sure if he will do the press conference before the second leg on Saturday, because I think he feels like he made his point. He said what he had to say. We hadn't heard him for so long. He felt it was necessary for him to talk a little bit,

and he did it. And like I said, he was almost faultless. There was everything he said made sense. He was perfect. He feels like he said what he had to say. And I think that was part of the communication plan. Is everything okay between him and Didier Deschamps, the head coach? Is everything mended? There were a few quotes from him about it.

Mbappé said, If there had been a break-up, I would never have answered his calls. He was my only coach on the French national team and gave me my first call-up. We've had successes together and our relationship can't end in the trash can over two or three disagreements. So there's still disagreements or is everything healed there Jules? No I think it's all good. They had a big chat on Monday as well in Deschamps room at Clairefontaine and I think because what happened in November especially just felt a little bit not transparent enough. We didn't really know Deschamps didn't want to talk about it.

We'd never heard Killian about it. And so we just thought, okay, maybe there's a bit of tension there. And there is. And in the same way that Mbappe talked about Griezmann, because at times there was a bit of tension between him and Griezmann over the captaincy of a few things. But again, he wanted to address the Griezmann subject, if you want, which he did saying that they go to barbecue together. Griezmann's son loves the national team and they have loads of child, they play football together in Griezmann's garden, all of that kind of stuff. I think it was important for him to put that out, so for people to know it. And again, it was being in control. So no, I don't

think there's any problems between him and Deschamps, between him and the rest of the squad. He is the captain. He said that it's not easy to be the captain. He also said something very interesting. He said when Hugo Lloris was the captain and everybody said he was boring as a captain, which he was, but nobody talked about the captaincy or the captain anymore. And now that it's him, there's a lot of talk about what kind of captain he should be and is he the right captain and is he leading by example? And Kylian said for a long time there was no talk about captaincy and now it's me and people talk a lot about what kind of captain I am.

So I think he had also a point about that and I think that's also for Deschamps to make sure that he's the captain and there's just no argument to have about him being the captain. Christophe, are you impressed by Mbappe on and off the field in the last few months? Because correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I think back to when I did Euroleagues in the last couple of international breaks, it seemed as though Mbappe had the weight of the world on his shoulders. He was kind of struggling for form, there were stories about him off the pitch, but now, Christophe, it seems to be all positive. He's playing really well.

He's back with the France team. He's saying all the right things. And people are talking about him for Ballon d'Or as well. Wait until he plays a few bad games and everything goes wrong in the French camp again, then we have to talk again. It's like a bit now. What, how it happens in the world camp again, then we have to talk again. It's like a bit now how it happens in the world right now. I think Sunday everybody, everything seems a disaster when it's not turning out good

for a player and everything is all a rose garden when he's suddenly performing well. Maybe the criticism in the previous break was a bit excessive. There were of course the stories that went around the world, but I think, yeah, he's just been doing well for now. And when you're doing well, all those bad stories disappear. It's what happens in life, I think. And quite clearly, he, like any of us, will struggle when you have to find your new place in the world.

He had a time to adaptation, or he's still at it, I think, in the national side with Chris Manau, the picture, if you like. He will have to take over even more. Or you're is also out. So he's the undisputable leader in Madrid. There is an issue unresolved still of his relationship with Vinicius. We talked about it last week briefly. They're not the best of friends. They're obviously professional colleagues,

but they are fighting for the same geographics on the pitch. And that from the moment that Mbappé having missed those two penalties against Liverpool Analytic Club, he went like, you know what, I'm just going to have to do it my way. Uh, and then that clash with the Vinicius way, uh, still, uh, the team doesn't know who to look for, for answers. That's part of the adaptation process, but considering all of that and considering how many of us have got our eyes put on him, I think he's dealing, he's dealing with it very well. And he's quickly becoming, uh, Ramadiz becoming, you know, Mbappe's team. Not yet there but getting there.

And of course France is already so two massive entities that he's got to lead. I think it's fine. And do you think Jules Dideri Deschamps has dealt with this really well? I always felt this was his... we've criticized him a lot haven't we on Euroleagues or his tactics. Maybe he's too pragmatic. I know he's announced he's going to leave after the World Cup, but maybe there was a consensus that we thought he should have left earlier. But man management. I remember, going back to when he was captain, there was an amazing documentary, wasn't there, about the 1998 World Cup behind the scenes called Les You, Donny Bleu, The Eyes in the Blues. And I remember when he was captain, the great thing about him was that he was able to relate to all the players. You know, even though he was a veteran,

the younger players, he's able to relate to them. And it seems when he's a manager, also, that's his strength, isn't it? Man management. This could easily have gone awry if he'd said the wrong things, but he kept the door open for Mbappe, didn't he? And that seems to be mended now, that relationship.

Yeah, no, you're right. He's very good at that. I mean, and to be fair, it's Mbappe we're talking about. So maybe for somebody else things could have been different, but not with Kylian. He's one of the best players in the world. He's your best player in this squad, even if Dembele is doing great and others are also playing well, he's still your best player. So with him or without him, it's not the same thing as we saw, to be fair, in some games, although without him in November they did well. And we expect a lot from him now that he's back. He will play on his favorite left hand side, potentially tonight with Dembele,

essentially, and Colomboini on the right of that front three. So he knows also Mbappe that he has to deliver now that all this talk is great. He wanted to control the narrative. He's done that. No problem. But now he has to do now, that all this talk is great. He wanted to control the narrative. He's done that, no problem. But now he has to do the job on the pitch. But for Deschamps point of view, he was always very good at just managing expectations to start with, even if in November,

I feel his communication could have been a little bit better, and I think Deschamps knows that. And he kind of acknowledged it a bit on Monday, and again yesterday in his pre-match press conference. So it's all good. This is his last journey now. He's got 18 months until the World Cup. He wants it to be perfect. He's got a wonderful squad. There's no doubt if you look at the attacking options, even with Turam going back to Inter Milan, because of injury, he's got incredible attacking options for this international break, but for months and years to come. And after him, Zidane, of course. So he knows that everything has to be perfect

if they want to go to the US in 2026 and Canada and Mexico and leave the World Cup. Now, I thought, Guillaume and Christophe, because it was international break, we'd get away without not talking about how good Paris Saint-Germain are for once this year on Euroleagues, but we have to talk about them again talking about how good Paris Saint-Germain are for once this year on Euroleagues, but

we have to talk about them again because Isiré Douay called up to the France squad for the first time after his excellent performances, notably in the Champions League, and Deschamps said he's a very good young player, very interesting for us. He's been so impressive, hasn't he, Jorze, in recent weeks? Where do you see him fitting in for France? Do you think he could be the super sub in next year's World Cup? Yeah, if he continues like this, for sure. It's an incredible trajectory, really, because he moved from Rennes for 50 million euros in the summer with not much experience. Rennes

was his hometown, his home club. So to go to the capital, which is never easy. We all know players who lost themselves a little bit going to bigger clubs and bigger cities. And I remember when he started against Arsenal in October in the Champions League when Dembele was left at home by Luis Enrique for the disagreement that they had. And he looked out of his depth in that game. And PSG were not very good, but he was out of his depth. And I remember meeting one of his brothers

and his dad after the game. and they were very good in like, okay, he's not ready for this, we can say, but he wants to improve. He's working so hard to get to the level that will enable him to be a starter in a game like this and do well for the team and then potentially go higher. And I liked the fact that he didn't try to hide away from the fact that he hasn't been good in that game

at all against Arsenal. And instead, all they talked about was he's working so hard, he's getting a grip to what Luis Enrique wants him to do with the dynamic, he knows he needs to improve this and this and that. And they were very down to earth and I was like, okay, this is good. And I didn't know them at all before that night. And now look at where he is. It's amazing. He made a good joke on Monday or Tuesday when he came to speak to the press because there's a lot of puns and memes obviously on his name because Desiree means desired and Douay in French means gifted. So when you start by a name

called Desired Gifted, it's a good start of your life to start with. But he also said, so we asked him like, oh, is it okay to see all those puns? And he said, yeah, it's fine. He said, but most importantly, I've got the best initials in the game because obviously his initials are Didi, like Didier Deschamps. And obviously that was a really good start to his French career. And just finally on him, what's also fascinating is his older brother, Gela, who does really well, plays for Strasbourg. He's having a really good season with Strasbourg.

And Liam Rosinho, who's a defender, has chosen to play for Ivory Coast, which is obviously their dual nationality, their heritage. And so we potentially one day could have a France v Ivory Coast game where the two Douay brothers face each other. Wow, I'll be looking out for him at the next Africa Cup of Nations as well. Guillaume, you followed this PSG journey and the way they've improved so much over the last three months and he was still costly due, he cost 50 million euros, but he's either the symbol of what Paris Saint-Germain are trying to do. They could have gone out and got a big money signing from outside of France, but they went for a young French player and that's kind of the symbol of what Luis Enrique is trying to do at Paris Saint-Germain, isn't it? Yeah, there is a lot of layers to what PSG are trying to do. It all starts with the understanding between the bench and the ownership that they are in the same wavelength. Luis Enrique asked

what is the project, obviously Mbappé was still there and the idea was put very clearly to him, we want you to be the leader, which he kind of laughed because that hasn't happened before really, for a manager to actually take charge of the places is the only way I will go. And secondly, they knew that he works very well with youngsters, that he can mold them. Perhaps there were question marks about he can deal with stars and everybody remembers that story in January 2015, that the year that Barcelona won the treble, but everything could have collapsed with Luis Suarez and Messi arriving late from holidays and basically

Luis Enrique punishing Messi and getting Xavi to intervene and the chairman as well saying, oh, come on, Luis Enrique, no, no, no, no, this is it. Because you know, when he gets something in his head, that's it. So those stories, and he's not the only one, perhaps made PSG a little bit think, you know, you still got Mbappe, whatever. But I think PSG knew and Luis Enrique knew as well that the best way for him to actually mold the side is to have players that are not stars,

that will listen like the Serie D'Huez is listening, that he could convert into stars like he's doing with Dembele, and he's much more comfortable with it. I think those managers that have got this idea that, this philosophy, if you like, of how the team should play need players that are moldable and fit a role. And they do those obligations and responsibilities

down to what that role is about. Not every star does that. In fact, most stars just don't do it. So there seems to be a synergy between the club and Luis Enrique. And as you say, certainly the Serie D'Hue represents that new PSG that we've been describing almost every week because they deserve it because if they play well we need to talk about them, not a problem. We will and we will continue to do that.

Just a quick one Jules before we move on to talking about the drama in the Belgium camp with Christophe. I saw on social media this week you kind of shot down the links being made between Paris Saint-Germain and Virgil van Dijk because this all came about didn't it? Because Virgil van Dijk was seen talking to the Paris Saint-Germain president after the Liverpool game but is there anything in the links being made? No, I mean certainly I was told that there was just nothing and I think PSG recognise where a great player Virgil van Dijk is and we don't know what's going to happen to Virgil van Dijk's future because he's out of contract in June with Liverpool and obviously he hasn't extended

yet. I don't know if he has decided what to do but I don't think he will be in PSG. It doesn't really fit what Guillaume just described perfectly on what this new kind of mindset is at the club right now. I think they will be looking for a centre-back and Van Dijk is obviously great, but that's not really the profile they're going for. And just to finish on that, the little chat that he had with Nassar Al Khalafi and with Campos after the second leg on field between the two teams was more to say, wow, what a team this is. We've hardly faced a team as good as that in the last three years. So well done to you guys. That kind of chat, nothing really to do with this feature.

That's not how players sign for other clubs generally anyway, but it can happen. I think it was for Antoine Operet going to seezema, for instance, and there's a direct contact. But, oh, you know, the famous note that Florentino gave Zidane to make him come to Real Madrid, but that's not generally how it goes. In any case, though, I know for a fact that Van Dijk would like, at some point in his career, and you start wondering if it's too late, to play for Real Madrid or Barcelona. That has always been his dream and I think is the dream of every professional player, especially those that reach the elite and see that there is... this is Liverpool we're talking about,

but Real Madrid is something else and Barcelona is something else. At the same level if you want but completely different. And I remember about four or five years ago we did a long interview with him for Five Life to talk about his youth and childhood and all that. And it came out by surprise at that point, let's not say who said it, but somebody that was in the room saying Madrid or Barcelona next. It's just that, you know, he's 33. Real Madrid are sorted with centre-backs, he would say, perhaps. But he's on a free. Barcelona buys players on a free. So who knows? This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy.

It's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years, English football has been dominated by Manchester City. Eight Premier League titles, six League Cups, three FA Cups, one Champions League. And that's your free! And more than a hundred charges. Somebody turned up at the Etihad Stadium and effectively served papers. I'm Clive Myrie and this is Football on Trial. The Manchester City Charges. They believe they've got irrefutable evidence. Listen on BBC Sounds.

On the Football Daily Podcast, the EuroLeagues. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is EuroLeagues. Guillaume Balaguez here, Christophe Thoreau, Julien Laronze and me, John Bennett. So we've talked about Kylian Mbappe returning for France. Another man who's making a return from international wilderness this week is the Belgian goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois. Hasn't played for the national team since June 2023, a long time. So Christophe, give us a brief summary of why Courtois has been out of the Belgium squad for so long. Basically, it was a huge falling out, wasn't it, with the previous manager who was sacked not long ago, Domenico Tedesco.

Yeah, and it all started in June 2023 over a captain's band like Gutwe was celebrated for his 100th game against Austria. And he thought he would get the captain's band only for that game. It was basically all given the Berners fault because he was the captain at that point and you had two vice captains and the Berners was injured. So Tedesco had to pick for the two games between two players. and Asurum and Lukaku had missed a huge chance in the Champions League final of 23 against Manchester City. He thought, ah Lukaku will be down, I'm going to give him the captain's ban to lift his spirits and Tedesco gave it to Lukaku and not Courtois who expected it.

And so for Courtois that was the, yeah, he already had enough of the national team of all what went wrong behind the scenes and that was for him the final story. And he said goodbye, he left the camp and since then we haven't seen him anymore with Belgium. He's been poking up the fire sometimes in interviews, has been, when Tedesco was still in charge, sometimes he sends some emojis with Pinocchio, emojis with a long nose to say that Tedesco is a liar.

But even in, he hasn't been there for one and a half year, but all the time there has been to talk about Kuchtbaar. And now he's finally back with the national team and yet still talk about Kuchtwa. The drama continues. I love it. I love it. I love the drama Queen Kuchtwa to be fair.

We love it. We all want to be covering Belgium. So it gives you stories. But yeah, Kuchtwa at a certain point was convinced that he wouldn't return for the national team anymore. We talked like a year ago, he said, I won't come back anymore, it's finished. Then the national team, basically, or the federation changed management. So you have a new CEO, you have a new sporting director. And those people, whenever things are going wrong, they are looking for, management. So you have a new CEO, you have a new sporting director and those

people whenever things going wrong they are looking for are we gonna do a huge stunt. So the CEO traveled to Toomertree to talk to Courtois. You had the sporting, the new sporting director, he thought ah when I come in with a bang I get Courtois back. But what those people at the top of the of the Federation are estimated is that the Belgian public at this point has had enough of Courtois. They thought it was a stunt bringing back, but if you look at all the reactions that came on his return to the national side, like 75% have been negative because people have enough of the drama that's been happening.

And from within the team as well. I mean, the former goalkeeper, Keurin Castille, he withdrew, didn't he, from the Belgium selection. He's basically retired and he went on a podcast and he listened to these quotes. He said, for me, we're all equal, no player is above the team. That was the case at the beginning, but now the federation has rolled out the red carpet for Courtois. I recently heard him say about Tedesco's dismissal that it shows he was right, for me that shows a little sense of guilt. This is amazing drama isn't it Guillaume, Courtois back, but there's no way you can't

bring Courtois back surely, the best goalkeeper in the world, arguably. If 75% of Belgian people that have been inquired about this think that it's not a good idea to bring Courtois, the confirmation that people don't care about football anymore. Football fans just want, yeah, the drama. You're talking about the best goalkeeper in the world in my eyes, who has become even stronger on the back of his injury, able to come off the six-year box more often and with more assurance, who still does the miracle save at least one per game, who you cannot explain what Ramadhir are doing in the cup competition, especially if it wasn't

for him. I read in the script that something is underappreciated. That probably was going to be your next question. But I want to answer that because whatever you ask, apart from England, is considered the best play in the world. I remember before the Liverpool final, I put up all Alison or Courtois, knowing full well what was gonna happen.

And Alison not only won, I was insulted for even suggesting that this was a possibility. So Courtois messaged me privately and said, what? I said, yeah, in England, it's like this. So when he beat Liverpool, I was doing CBS, I was super flash. So straight away after the game finishes, go onto the pitch, run to Courtois, who gave me a big hug and said, what will England say now?

So he's not underappreciated. He really, people here or here in England, in the UK, perhaps don't see what we all see that he's the best. Castile's also said, Christophe, that loads of the players within the squads shared his opinion about Thibaut. And my question is, is he really, is Castile's right to start with? Is he really that much of a divisive figure within the camp even?

Or actually the fact that he's back, there's more players that just agree with the decision from Rudi Garcia and the federation to bring him back anyway? Well there were a few players that had some issues with what Courtois has said in the private chats that he had with Domenico Desco just after he didn't get the captain's ban there, he said, yeah, it's difficult to play with behind a defense who's playing relegation football. They can't cope with the defeats, with this, with that. And he was basically pointing at, at that point, 2023, Timothy Cost Castagne was playing at Leicester City. You had Wout Fahze was playing at Leicester City. So those guys felt insulted by Courtois.

But that was because somebody of the staff of Tedesco leaked that story to the play-ins group. So Courtois told it in a private discussion with Tedesco. That went back to the squad. Temtiboti Castaña did an interview where he said that Courtois just that he was angry with Courtois. Courtois messaged him. Castaña tracked back in the next interview that he didn't meant to say those kinds of things. But it's just a small part of the squad because they had like a meeting on Monday when Courtois returned to the squad with the five leaders of the squad, that's Lukaku, Kevin de Bruyne, Juli Thielemans. Nothing was said about what happened before. There were a few that Courtois talked about misunderstandings, this and that.

Nobody complains. Then on Tuesday before the training session there was those open group chats that they did them to have. Nobody complained that Couchtois was back. So that's that story gone. But yes, some players will never speak up in group. I think that's what happened in companies too. So there will be some that are still thinking, oh, he might be bad for the atmosphere, for the group dynamics, but obviously they

will all have to admit that Pio, as a goalkeeper and as a player, is their best way to success, I think. And that's how opportunistic players are too. First they see, oh, we have Couch 12 back, we can get good performance again, although Castells has done very well at the Euros to be fair. Yeah, Yuri Tillerman spoke about it in one of the press conferences, he says, we certainly didn't need that bomb from Kuhn Castells in this situation. Of course it was discussed, but the most important thing is that Thibaut was able to clarify everything and tell his story. Guillaume, why is he such a divisive figure?

Thibaut Courtois, he's giving you hugs at the matches. Why do some people dislike him? I'll give you an example. Finishes the derby, the Euro derby in the Champions League, and he comes off the Metropolitano instead of just with his head down and accepting the fee, sorry, victory and being elegant in victory. He actually raised his hands, provoking the rivals, shouting you don't know what, but

I think something that was carrying inside for a long time. And yeah, I got really the Le Ducic Madrid fans and the chairman really really upset. Let's call it strong personality and no fear of controversy is what you know makes him accumulate enemies. He loves a bit of controversy but he likes to play the games of Athletic Madrid against Chelsea where they're booing him when they're insulting him. That brings the best out of him. He likes to be a bit underestimated. When there's a pull like Guillaume told before that Alisson is the best in the world, he loves it and then he reacts to it. So he needs that adversity. It's a bit of

his energy, I think. And yeah, he likes to likes to provoke so yeah he keeps the drama going. And Jules at the centre of all this drama, someone is going to have to keep it in check, Rudy Garcia, how do you think he's going to get on in charge of the Belgian national team? He's done okay in his career hasn't he? He's done brilliantly at times, Lille, he won the league in cup double, Lyon Champions League semi-final wasn't it and there have been some high profile failures as well. How do you think he's going to get on? I think it's quite a fascinating choice to be fair and I think we can't wait to see what he does. If there's one good thing that

Rudi Garcia does is the man management, is how to manage a squad. He's a very charming guy, he speaks really well. Okay, he doesn't speak Flemish but the French part of the squad he will have that very strong bond relationship with it and then he will rely on players who speak the two languages like KDB, like Thibaut, like Lukaku, like Thilemence to also make the link with the rest of the squad. But I think if you think about Tedesco and what he was about, you take the complete opposite extreme in Rudy Garcia, in the warmth, just the warmth and the personality compared to Tedesco. And I think already this is a much better appointment than Tedesco ever was.

Well, Jules, still disappointed. I just before I went on this spot, I opened Instagram and I saw a top 10 of international managers that he made. And Rudy Garcia was not in the top 10, so you're now praising him. Not yet, my friend. He will be soon. Okay, he will be soon. Okay, that's it. I thought you've sent us the cat in the bag that you're happy we have a French manager that will make it even worse than Tedesco. That's what I was thinking with that. No. He's done well since now with the players. He's only been working for three days, so you can't really judge him.

But in a way, when he made his first really public performance on an award show on Flemish television, he said his first few words in Flemish already. And so he has that, yeah, typical charming French way to get the right words at the right moment. So a bit like Jules, but less, he's less charming than Jules, so. Will he make Jules' top 10 in a year's time? We'll come back and update it.

It will be, it will be. All right, it seems that there's less drama in the Spain camp at the moment and that could be down to the continuity of having seven Barcelona players at least originally before injuries in the squad Guillem it feels like the early 2010s again when Barcelona players were dominating Spain squads does a strong Barcelona and they are very strong at the moment, mean a strong Spain? Is this great news for the Spain national team?

Let me debunk a myth. It wasn't Barcelona. It didn't really have to do with Barcelona that years of success, but before getting there, it's quite true that you mentioned the amount of players from Barcelona that are getting to the national side,

players that have gone through the ranks that De La Fuente knows very well. Perhaps the symbol of this new Spain, it's two Barcelona players in Pedri and Dani Olmo, La Minya Mal of course as well, but especially in the middle, the engine of the side and the lungs and brain of the side is Pedri and Dani Olmo who the key is not just only that they play for Barcelona but obviously it helps. It's just a good relationship. At the beginning for both Hansi Flick and De La Fuente they couldn't play together so they kind of they laughed at it. Both of them laughed at it. And they used to joke a lot amongst themselves, passing the ball to each other and training.

It's a good pass, but sorry, we cannot play together. I'm sorry. And stuff like that. And then now you realize that you need them both. Pedri playing a little bit deeper with Barcelona. I think he still will be a number 10 with the national side and Dani Olmo creating. And they are the kind of players they admitted themselves. They told us in different interviews, Pedri says if I've got a problem I give the ball to Olmo and Olmo does

exactly the same. From there a team can grow and this is of course has to do with the fact that they they play in the same team and every week they get to know each other more. But if you look at the recent success of Spain, for instance, when we won in the stadium, we won a Cooper Stadium that we're going to play against Netherlands, the Nations League final, the beginning of this era of success against Croatia, that final had only had Jordi Alba and Gabi in the lineup. And if you look at the lineup of against England for the Euros, it was only Kukurey and Dani Olmo,

both of them had been through the ranks, but were not at Barcelona, and Lamin, who were in the lineup. So Barcelona is not that key, hasn't been that key yet. And then if you look back at the time with the national side, the 2008, 2012, yes, it was Iniesta, Chaby, Busquets, of course, but it was a mixture of things that had to do with, you know, with with Ramadi players that were key, like Sergio Ramos,

players from the periphery, like like Navas or even, I don't know, Llorente. It was that mix that took us to success. Just basically a group of players, some of them that played abroad and were competitive in a competitive league that was the right atmosphere was created. Yeah, there was a core group that was seen every in every tournament, but it wasn't just Barcelona. For me, the key of that team winning was the fact that they made the national team a like a club, like a team in

itself. So that's the myth debunked. And as for Barcelona at the weekend Jules, Lomínio Mal and Ferran Torres striking in stoppage time, Barcelona beating Atletico Madrid. How concerned are you about this Barcelona team possibly winning the Champions League ahead of your Paris Saint-Germain? So time Barcelona beating Atletico Madrid. How concerned are you about this Barcelona team possibly winning the Champions League ahead of your Paris Saint-Germain? So unbeaten this year, 18 games, they've won nine of the last 10. They could meet in the final. They seem to have, is this disrespectful, an easier route to the final facing Borussia Dortmund Barcelona in the Champions League quarter-finals. Would you make them favourites at the moment Jules?

to see Dortmund Barcelona in the Champions League quarter-finals, would you make them favourites at the moment Jules? Yeah, I think they have to be. This is a wonderful team, so attacking wise, we've said that all along, all season, every time we've done the show, how great they've been, Rafinha, Lewandowski and Lamin, especially at that front three, if you add them behind that, Olmo and Pedri, like Guilhem just said, even Gavi, even De Jong, they just lost Marc

Casado, which is a bit of a blow because he'd been very good in the kind of defensive, or the most defensive role in that team when he played. But there they've been amazing to watch and they were amazing again in that Atletico game where they go two nil down and then they don't stop attacking, they keep attacking and yet they get a bit lucky towards the end because the one goal is a deflected shot. Obviously they've got things going their way but you also provoke that in a game. They're just a wonderful team to watch, so entertaining.

I think Dortmund is a given that they would beat them. Then after that it would be Bayern or Inter, which would be difficult, especially if it's Inter because the tactical battle would be very, very different between Zaghi and Flick. But yeah, I think they can literally win it all, win the Copa del Rey, which they're still very much in, before the semi-finals, second against Atlético, the league where they are now at the top of the table with the game in hand, they will play against Sousa Suna in a weird, weird game next Thursday, Thursday week, and then potentially the Champions League.

And we could get an El Clasico final, couldn't we, if Real Madrid were to get to the final as well? But we'll fixture congestion, Guilhem, get in the way. Let's end with this because big discussion in Spain at the moment about 72 hours between games. Carlo Ancelotti, the manager, says that if Real Madrid have to play a match with less than a 72 hour turnaround, they'll not play the match. What's behind his complaint? Has he got a reason to be upset? 72 hours, that's pretty normal, isn't it? It's kind

of a three day break between games? No, 72 hours is okay, but 66 hours, which was the difference between the Villarreal game and the previous Champions League game, perhaps is a little bit not well, it's not enough basically. It's FIFA recommends 72 hours, but there is no rule that imposes that. And Carlo Ancelotti having seen his side play a game after another with less than 72 hours, four times this season, he just went on the attack and said, we're not playing again if this happens. To which the president of La Liga said,

oh, that's interesting, because La Liga offered a fixture change in the Lega Nes game to start earlier. So they had 72 hours before the Copa del Rey match against Real Sociedad. And Real Madrid said, no, no, no, we're okay with the evening game, which means that they themselves have shoot on the foot. I think you look at the stats and you see that Atletico Madrid had had that problem five times,

Barcelona has had it three times. So Ernesto Valverde of Atleti Club said, yeah, we all had the same six times. So it goes beyond what Ancelotti is doing. He's buying the whole way of understanding the world of Florentino Peretti as president. And any opportunity that Real Madrid have to have a go at La Liga, they just go for it. Why? Because the Super League is still a possibility in their eyes because diminishing the value of La Liga

is strengthening the position of the Super League and generally that will continue in whatever field you wanted. For instance, for a while, and we discussed this, they were complaining about referees and how referees were affecting Real Madrid's gathering of points, etc. It all has, in my eyes, one reason. Real Madrid has become, as Debas calls them, the anti-system club, which is amazing because there is no more establishment than Real Madrid. And the anti-system club, too, eventually destroyed the league and converted the Super League instead of a dream in a possibility.

And the other spokesperson of Real Madrid, Thibaut Courtois, went down to the same line to call it an absolute lack of respect. So, yeah, that's how he is as a character. So he likes to do that as his Madrid mentality too, I think. Unlike him to get involved. I mean, you look at the stats, they do have a point. So games play with three days rest or less 2024-2025 season, Europe's top four leagues, Real Madrid 16, level top with Real Betis. Quiz question to end, who's played the most matches with less than 72 hours rest since the 2022-2023 season?

Who do you think? Liverpool. Liverpool. Oh. Manchester United. So there we have Manchester United fans. You have an excuse. Yes, you've had the less rest. Less rest, at least rest over the last few years.

Thank you very much to Julio Lloros. Thank you to Guilla Balague. Thank you to Christophe Tarrer for joining me on your release. Coming up next on the Football Daily, a preview of Thomas Tuchel's first game in charge against Albania which you can hear live on Five Live from 7.45 on Friday.

Goodbye for now.