Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Mbappé v PSG, Fabregas under fire & Benfica’s Talent Factory

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Steve Crossman is joined by James Horncastle, Julien Laurens and Rafa Honigstein to break down the biggest stories across European football.They discuss PSG being ordered to pay Kylian Mbappé €60m, Cesc Fabregas’ fallout with Senegal over Assane Diao, and Fiorentina’s dramatic collapse to the bottom of Serie A.The panel are also joined by Benfica academy director Guilherme Müller to explore why Benfica are world leaders in youth development, before touching on the rapid rise of teenager Lennart Karl.02:35 PSG Pay Mbappé 11:08 Fabregas backlash 25:16 Benfica’s academy gold 37:38 Rise of Karl 41:02 Fiorentina’s Collapse

On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues, with Steve Crossman. Hi there, welcome to the Euroleagues on the Football Daily. We're going to be getting into Fiorentina's full from Grace, how Paris-Sandumad have had to pay 60 million euros to Killian Mbapé, why Cessque Fabragas is in hot water with Senegal. We're also going to be joined by the Academy Director at Benfica, the most profitable Academy in World Football. So all of that to come.

ESPN's Julianne LaRont, the Athletics James Horncastle and Raphael Honestand. Good evening, everybody. Hello, guys. Hello, James, are you in a sauna? He is?

No, I'm not in a sauna. I am in Finland, though. Oh, right, okay. Are you in Lapland? I am in Lapland. Oh, well, this is perfect. That's perfect. Oh, he finally got a job as Father Christmas.

No, he's the elf. He's one of the elf. Oh, brilliant. Got the beard for it. Are you having a little break and you've just decided to include us or are you on some sort of secret journalistic mission? No, although there is a Santa FC, isn't there? No, I have brought my nephews to Lapland.

Okay, so you're not interviewing the manager of FC Santa Claus? No, no. I mean, now that all the elves have sort of back to work, I'm looking for the northern lights, but as I look out the window, there is a blizzard going on. I kind of quite like That's why you needed Rudolph. I mean, it's perfect. If I opened this window crossy,

I might be blown away at the moment. It's quite spectacular outside. But yeah, no, it's wonderful up here. I recommend anyone to come. I came on Jules' recommendation, so there you go. Oh, brilliant. Jules was doing a sort of holiday season as an elf. He was introduced as an elf from ESPN when he was doing his season.

They're the best elves than those. So if James Horncastle is Santa and he does have the hair for it and Jules has the height for an elf, I don't know what that makes me and you, Raffa, but I still want to be involved. I don't have any answer to that. That's fine. A couple of rain.

I like a new haircut. Oh, German. The range is, yeah. He believes in Crampus. Campos comes on the 6th of December if you've been naughty. Is that right? If he hasn't got you yet, you're okay. Okay.

By the way, the chairman of FC Santa Claus will be. beyond the Euroleagues between now and the end of the year. So that is an interview that you can look forward to. Right. Let's start our show tonight with the biggest story of the week. Paris Saint-Gman having to play Killian Mbapé, a lot of money. PSG were counter-suing Mbapé for compensation for his failed 300 million euro transfer to Al-Hilal. It's all got very messy jules. But in the end, PSG have got a part with 60 million euros to a player who,

left them a long time ago. Yeah, I think it's a very interesting story, quite a rare one, because I don't think we've ever really been in this situation where basically the heart of it is Mbapé was going to run down his contract. We knew that. He was going to leave to go to Real Madrid on a free, and PSG were not happy with that. So at the start of 23, 24 season, they dropped him from the squad.

He didn't travel on a pre-season tour to Japan and to find a solution to be reintegrated into the squad for his last season in Paris. Apparently they had a meeting where Killian said, listen, I understand that you don't want to lose me on a free. I don't want to leave with nothing for the club. So I'm going to wave off some of the bonuses that you will owe me by the end of this season, by the end of this contract.

In that, you will get some money, it would feel to you, it would be like a transfer fee kind of thing. The club said that's what he said. He said that he never said that, that he never signed anything, that they never agreed anything. So all basically was at court was PhD saying one thing

and Kieran Mbapay saying another thing through lawyers, when there was no contract, nothing in writing, no nothing black and white. It was one word against the other. And at the end of the day, PSG had to pay what they owed him from the contract. I mean, I can read to you in details because it's quite funny, to be fair,

but there was 37 million, as you do, euros in Sanilon fee that they were still owing him. There was 3.6 million on pay leave that they owed him. 17 million on unpaid wages three months they owed him And the list continues The total made it 61 million obviously So in the end I think maybe PhD thought We could settle for something a bit lower

And I think that's why they went to court Because other than that They just have to pay him what they owe him It's as simple as that Is this unprecedented James precedented Well I was wrecking my brains Sort of in my career reporting on football To find something similar

And there's nothing of this profile I mean, Jules has kind of laid out the damages, the kind of the compensation, you know, it's huge. And obviously, with a player with the name of Killeen Mbapé, this is someone we've been expecting to win the Ballandor for the last number of years, someone who scored in a couple of World Cup finals. So it's sort of rare air that he is living in. In Italy, I can just remember in sort of 2010, sort of a player being in a bomb squad. and sort of taking his team to court winning, that player was Goran Pandev, certainly a different striker compared with Killian and Bappe.

And Pandev sort of winning this court battle with Lazio moving to Inter in the winter of 2010 and winning the treble, which, yeah, it worked out very well for him. But nothing on this scale, it is pretty remarkable. And Jules, I mean, if PSG had won, I mean, what they were claiming was pretty remarkable. I think hundreds of millions,

they wanted from Mbapé so yeah incredible really i think they just they they just went for something in return not to lose face in a way or you know something like that both both knew that if if if if you went all that way to the court the court will very likely and they did in the end settle for that's how much it was written in the contract i've read the contracts black and white all those numbers that I've given you with a few more, you know, numbers at the end, I round them up for you. But that's exactly what was in the contract in terms of the bonuses, the signing on fees, the wages, the leave pay, all of that was there. He got 5,000 euros of like damages and 5,000 euros to pay for his lawyer's fee, which by the way, we're much higher than that, I can tell

you. And that was it really. The rest is exactly what was in the contract. So in the end, it felt to me a bit like a lot of noise and fuss for not really much in the end because they could have agreed to this both parties at the same time. You want a World Cup winner suing his own club I'd give you Lota Mateos suing Bayon.

Only in Germany and at Bayern. In 2000, Bayern made a testimonial for him and afterwards, which brought in about 9 million euros before cost, sorry, 9 million marks. And Lottomatoos sued Byrne saying

that that's not not the whole sum, and he wanted to have a look into the document and everything. And after a long protected case, which really didn't help him because that's when the famous line was born that Uly Hearnas, the president at the time, said, Lota Mateus, as long as I'm here, will never be even be greenkeeper at FC Bayern. He won seven and a half thousand euros and ruined, or at least damage his relationship with Bayern forever. So the very definition of a periodic victory, got a little bit of money, but fell out with

the biggest most powerful club and to this day is still a bit of an outsider whereas every former Bayern player of note has been sort of brought into the fold and they're either officials or their ambassadors and he's the odd one out even Juergen Klinsman who had a famously unproductive time at Bayern is now coming back to play for their legends team but Lota he has played occasionally for them but Lota is still sort of the odd one out crossy I actually it's come to my mind Because I actually wrote about this before Juventus played Real Madrid in the winter this year, which was Cristiano Ronaldo against Juventus, which people don't realize this is going on. Couldn't you think of a more high-profile player?

I went from Goran Pandev to Cristiano Ronaldo. But no, I mean, Ronaldo and Juventus have been an arbitration since he left Juventus for Man United over the money due to him in COVID, which was sort of, okay, Christiano, are we going to reduce your wages? And it's gone back and forth, and there'll be a final decision in January. I think you've anticipated half of it. Cristiano wants the full amount, and that full amount is 19.6 million euro. So there you go. I think it's all the steam and the sauna, James.

I think it's all gone to your head, and you just lost it for a second. It's the gloog. It's the gluvine. I think Jules is an interesting question here about whether fans care about this kind of thing and sort of doubly because anecdotally I get the impression that the younger generation of football fans there are a lot more people now who follow players

than they used to be obviously loads and loads of kids are still massive fans of a particular team but equally there are people who are just massive fans of individual players and this might have changed over the years Do you think Paris Saint-German supporters care? Does it make them feel any differently about Killingen Mbapé or not?

I don't think so. I think everybody sees it in the way that, again, in a very simple way, this is the money that was owed to him. You can't have a player and not pay him in March, April and May, or April, May and June's wages. It's just you can't, any, if you're in any, whatever job you're in, if your employer doesn't pay you three months in a row, you're not going to be happy and you're going to go,

you're going to sue them. and you're going to go to court. So it's exactly like that. Really, I think, yes, did he really agree to waive off some of the bonuses? Maybe he did, maybe didn't, to be fair. In the end, that's not going to change much regardless. So I don't think PhD cares so much. I think it's good that this is finally over,

although PhD could still appeal the decision that was taken yesterday. I think they're looking at it, but I don't think they will go through. So you could put that one to bed. Everybody can get on with their lives, Kedian in Madrid, PhD doing their thing and I say and I don't think that tarnished the relationship

that they had for seven years we've said at the time seven years was a long time for him to stay at the club he tried he tried he wanted to win the championship league to be the first player

to bring it to Paris he didn't happen he had a final he had semifinals just didn't happen they left in a way that yeah it was not very nice because I don't think

ideally if you're a fan you don't want to see one of the greatest players ever to play for your club to live on a free that's not nice fair enough but I think people

have moved on really quickly and that hasn't changed anything. This story is remarkable and it involves the Como manager, Sesk Fabragas, who's landed himself in hot water with the Senegalese Football Federation. It's basically led to a war of words between the two of them. And it's because Fabragas played a young Senegalese player, Asana Diau, in Como's defeat to Roma on Monday, one week before the start of Afcon, which Diow had been selected for.

He's been injured since the 1st of November. He's got an injury again. Again now, very unlikely he's going to feature at AFCOM. This is what Fabragas said about it to Sky Italia. He said, oh, I'm really glad when my players are called for international duty, but I asked Senegal for a little common sense and for them not to call him up because this is a player who was barely featured for eight months as he keeps getting hurt and can't find consistency.

I feel sorry for him because perhaps he shouldn't have played, i.e. in the game that he picked him in. Tomorrow, however, he would have left us for the national team for five weeks. We're paying his salary. he's a strong player for us we tried to take a risk discuss James I don't really have a problem with CESC

saying what he said in fact I'm a bit surprised that this has caused the kind of Fulari that it has because look Asanadiel is a very talented young player and you might say that

Senegal would call him up regardless of how much he's played this season as Cesska said you know really since the turn of this year Asanadiel has been out injured you know he's been out injured for eight months he gets back to being

sort of fit and healthy he goes away on international duty and he comes back injured and he's out for another month and so that common sense that I was going to call it common Cessk common sense that Cessque was calling for there is like

you know this player needs time to basically get fit and healthy yeah otherwise he's going to keep breaking down Cessc then played him against Roma and he goes on this incredible run I imagine people would compare it to like George Weyer against Hellas Verona back in the 90s. And then at the end of that run sort of pulls up.

He's clearly hurt. And he's like, look, these are the risks that a manager takes. We're sort of entitled to take these risks because he's our player. We pay his salary. And I thought CESC was very respectful of the fact that, look, you know, he was an international player himself. He won the World Cup playing for Spain. He said there's nothing a player wants to do more than represent his country and win

something with his country. You know, he felt that the Senegal coach was showing a lack of common sense in basically calling up a player who's barely featured for Como, who's been regularly injured. The other thing that, you know, didn't seem to make the tweets that made this a kind of viral thing was what Cess said to Skyo Italia afterwards, which was he finished that answer by saying, I had a conversation with the Senegal coach, it was unpleasant. And he claimed that the Senegal coach said, look, you either let me take the time. the boy to Afcon or he's not coming to the World Cup.

And Cess was like, that's, he was like, that's unacceptable to me. I can understand why Senegal's manager and Senegalese fans want to see Asana Diao play at the World Cup. Frankly, they haven't seen him play a lot because he's always injured. So it's Pape Chow, isn't it? He was the head coach of Senegal. I mean, look, Jules, I think there is an argument that nobody comes out of this particularly well.

I mean, the idea of a manager basically threatening, threatening to say we won't go to the World Cup if he doesn't, if you don't let him go to Waxon. Yeah, Pepcho said he didn't say that, but yeah. Hence the idea of it. Yeah, exactly. But equally, we can take Cessk at face value from what Cessk has said. I think some people will hear him talking about common sense and say, well, where's the common sense in playing him if he wasn't fit enough and then seeing him get injured again? Either of he's fit or he's not fit.

Yeah, I agree completely. I thought he was really disrespectful from Fabregas. And I think James makes a very good case for CESK. I have a very different view. SESQ is not here. I know Como pay those wages. Obviously we know that and we've had this debate for a very long time now, club v country, all of that. The players wanted to go to Afghan. He felt fit enough to go to Afghan. I think there's as always between club and countries, relationship between the two medical staffs of your national team and whoever your club is. Medical files are sense. You assess players together. You speak regularly and I don't know exactly what are the relationship between the Como medical staff and the Senegal medical staff. stuff, but you would expect that they're professionals and they should be okay to see that and say, okay, we can see that he's not completely ready to go back-to-back games for 90 minutes in the heat in Morocco. Fair enough. But they could also have taken him and not having to play

him 90 minutes back-to-back games or all three group games, for example, within three days, a part of each other. So for Seth Fabriac to come and say, I didn't want him to go. You're not the one deciding if a player should go to the Euros, the World Cup or Afcon. And that's why I was very surprised and very disappointing about what you said. I think there are two things here. One, there's this dispute between Sesk and Papa Chow, and we don't know exactly what has been said, and clearly there's been put pressure on the player.

It happens all the time in various disguises, various guises. But I think what you can't do as a coach has come out and said, the player shouldn't have played, but because it's Afcon, we thought we'd take the risk anyway. I mean, you might think that. You might secretly think,

okay, the worst that can happen is that he's going to miss. But as a duty towards your player, If you think there's a risk, even if you won't miss him, he still would be injured and he might not be able to play once Afcon is over either. So it's a very strange thing for me to say as a coach. And it sounded as if he was a little bit caught up in the controversy and maybe just spoke a little bit out of turn and said things that maybe he wouldn't have said otherwise in a more calmer, rational environment. I think as a coach, you can't do that. Okay. So he kind of addressed the point you've just made, Raff. He was like, a lot of coaches won't talk about this, but I'm basically going to, I'm going to be honest with you and express exactly how I feel. I'm very passionate. I'm going to be very authentic to myself here. I'll tell you exactly how I feel like this. And he basically said, like, not enough managers do this. They'll come here. They'll bluff. They'll lie. And all this thing. But what you get from me is really how I think. Now, whether what he said, and we've gone through it.

I think he was entitled to say some of the things he said. Jules has made the case saying he doesn't think that. But I think what we can't sort of, I'm reluctant to sort of criticize SESPA's saying what was on his mind. I'm not so much criticizing him for saying what's on his mind, but if he believed what he said is true, then I think you shouldn't do it as a manager in the first place. If you think there's a risk of a player getting injured

and then think, well, actually it's not that much of a risk because if you missed the next two weeks, it doesn't really affect us. You still owe a duty of care to the player, not to get injured, whether you're going to miss him or not. The player might be out for four weeks, four weeks, five weeks, six weeks. I don't think you can't. I don't think he can't. I don't think he was making the calculation on I'll risk him

because he's going to be away for the next five weeks. But he said, tomorrow he was supposed to go away on international duty, be away for five weeks, and since we're the ones paying his salary, we might as well take a risk and play him a little. it does sound very much like he's making exactly that calculation. Yeah, but I think we're entitled to take a risk with the player as much as a national team is entitled to take a risk with the player, which is what they were going to do,

take a player who's barely played at, you know, sort of eight months. It's like that coach is essentially willing to take the risk with that call that I'm making with this call. We're playing against AIS Roma in a big game at the Stadio-Olimpico. We're in contention for Europe. I'm going to take a risk because I believe. leave he's the right player to help us get something out of this game. I think that was the risk that he was talking about. I don't think it's a risk of, I don't think he's talking about

the risk. He's going to be away for five weeks anyway, so might as well roll the dice on this one. I think it was, it was purely the five weeks point is we're going to lose a game that we're going to lose a player that we can't use for the next five weeks and we pay his salary. I don't think it was, let's roll the dice and see what he had. He said, James, he probably shouldn't have played. Yeah, but managers do this all the time. I'm not sure they do it all the time. I think they do a lot of, they do the exact opposite all the time. They think there's a risk of a player getting injured. The national team means a lot to him. I'm not going to play him

in that one game when he hasn't played a lot of games. We have this discussion most weeks on this show. We've had it about Premier League clubs, Spurs last year, Arsenal last year. Why do these teams have so many injuries? Have they rushed players back? I think this is a calculation that managers make all the time. Whilst having that duty of care that you talk about in their minds, even with some of the best sports science and sort of really investing in your sports science departments,

you never know until a player gets out on the pitch how they're going to do. You can have a play. But if you say he probably shouldn't have played, it says that you'd think that it was more than a risk it was a probability that something might happen and I think if he really believes that if he was saying the truth then I think it was the wrong call

it felt a bit like he made it like he made a point of saying like I told you it was not fair I played him like Senegal would have played him and he broke down after 36 minutes it felt the way the way he said it it felt after the game felt almost like you see I told you I told you it was not and almost like he played him to

to make a point that he could get injured again and he did. And I think it's a really interesting discussion and I appreciate it. It feels a little bit like James versus the world. But as always, you're all doing a very good job of keeping it very, very polite, which is good. My sort of thing about it is I agree with what James was saying about the fact that this is how loads and loads of coaches

will be feeling and what he is doing is just expressing that. But there is a little bit of me that thinks he's, as the kids would say, he's saying the quiet thing out loud, isn't he? And he probably shouldn't. Yeah, I think he's a young coach, as we know. And I think he learned, and probably in 10 years' time, he would not have used those words or say those kind of things, and that's for sure.

I think there's also, and this is not new, I think cross it together, we did the show, whether it was before the last Afghan or the one before, even the lack of respect towards the competition in general. And let's not forget that. early as what three weeks ago clubs were complaining and protesting that the players date to join the national team for this competition was too early it was December the 8th they pushed hard for that day to become 5th December 15th and they obviously won't because

it's the clubs so so players even arrived late in Morocco to join the national team to be part to take part of Afghan because and there's a lot of clubs a lot of managers um who were not happy with that competition being halfway through the season we know that it's difficult to play at any other time during the season. We know that as well. And I think Cess Comments were part of that, I think. And I don't think it's helpful. I don't think he's good for Afcon. I don't think he's great for African football in general when you have people like Cess Fabregas who are in a way dissing a competition like Afcon, which is as important as the Euros or as the Copa America. And I don't think that's good at all. I think there is an interesting

point which might be a good place to finish on it, James, as well, around that, which is that AFCON as a tournament, it is really emotionally charged because we have seen lots of coaches in the past be pretty disrespectful to it as a tournament, mostly because it falls in the middle of the season, which other international tournaments don't. So I think anything which is seen to be adding to that is going to go down very, very badly. It is a unique competition in that sense. Yeah. Look, this competition was supposed to be played. last summer, right?

And it wasn't because Janie and Fantino decided to host the Club World Cup that everyone so wanted and desired. So, I mean, I suppose, I don't think this is necessarily CESC dissing the African Cup of Nations. I think if there was another tournament,

international tournament, this winter, which a player was called up for who'd been injured for much of the last eight months had got injured on international duty, had not been selected for the national team

until 2025 this year. So it's made, well, only two appearances. You know, I don't think he would have made a distinction between whether it was a European championship, whether it was a World Cup in Qatar, or whether it was Afcon in Morocco. I think it's purely a value judgment on why are you picking this player with his injury record.

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On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues with Steve Crossman. James Horncastle, Julianne Laurent, Raffa honixstein, all with us on the Euroleagues. We're going to do Fiore and Tina and why they're struggling so much in Seria are a little bit later. We've got loads coming up right now, though. This is a really, really interesting story. A few weeks ago, Portugal won the under 17. World Cup in Qatar for the first time, with nine Benfica players in the squad. Last year, the International Centre for Sports Studies, named Benfica's Academy is the

most profitable academy in world football, generating 516 million euros, which was 140 million euros more than the next best club. That's Ajax. This is calculated between 2014 and 2023. Benfica's Academy Director, Guillami Mueller, has joined us on the Euroleaks. Guillaume, good evening. Good evening. Those are some brilliant numbers, aren't they?

Congratulations, before we say anything else. What's the secret? Well, first of all, thanks for the invitation, the opportunity to be with you guys and share some thoughts. I don't know if there's a secret. I think there's a couple of things that brought together. I have contributed for this success. I'm biased, but I very much like the Portuguese player.

And we give a lot of importance to the Portuguese player because we think that we have in our country a few special characteristics that help to improve and develop more talent. So there's no hidden secret. There's no there's nothing that we can point out as being just the one thing. But I think that there are some characteristics in fact in our country that make it easier than in other countries. and we've been able to compare it with other especially European countries. And there's something in our that helps us a little bit. What are those special characteristics? Well, first of all, we can say this really out loud,

but there's no major restriction regarding recruitment, contrary to other countries, such as England, for example. So we can recruit in the northern part of Portugal and the southern part of Portugal without any conditions. And I think that's a good thing for us because it makes it possible for these three to four biggest clubs, as is the case in Portugal,

with the Benfica sport in Porto and Braga, to grasp the better talents really soon. Just out of curiosity, you guys were speaking about the Portuguese national team that won the World Cup, the under 17 World Cup. We have nine in the Portuguese team. We had a 10th player in the Irish team, Jaden.

So in total we had 10. But these nine players have an average of 10 years of longevity in Bifika. We're speaking about 17-year-old kids who in average have at least 10 years of Bifika. This is good because they have the opportunity for a long, long period of time to train with the best and to compete together again. against the best. And so I think that's something that has really helped us is to be able to get the better players really soon and have them train together and have them compete together.

So that's something that has been good for us. So the concentration is an important secret. And of course, there are characteristics of the players from genetically from our relation to Africa. I mean, lots of things from the past that have also helped, but I mean, more to bringing it back to the present. I think this is something that has contributed for us. Hagiaami is Julian.

There's also a certain education, right, about football in Portugal. We see with the coaches, with the university degree that a lot of them got, and obviously your coaches everywhere in Europe, everywhere in the world, are the most successful of any countries, really. And then it feels like with the players, certainly, all Benfica players, and I can speak about Joy Nevis, especially because he's now playing for my club in Paris and had a really interesting chart with him before the Champions League final, where he was talking about the kind of education that he received as a young

boy, you know, at Benfica, and okay, maybe Joe is a very, very talented, very bright kid in any way. But is there something also in the way you teach football to those kids that is a bit different maybe than what we do in France? Well, yeah, I would say that firstly, people love football. And people love their clubs in Portugal, which is, it's good because the kids from very early on start to, start to play football together. And there's always a ball present in every house. And that's something that is very good.

And then we think we feel that this is very important. And fortunately, it's changing a little bit. We see with the younger kids now that it's not the same as it was in our time, even in Juan's time. With the youngest kids, now it's a little bit different. There's a bigger attraction to PlayStation, cell phones, whatever. I mean, you know what I'm talking about. So it has been changing a little bit. But it's true that we love football. And if this is the fact for kids playing football, I think it's a bigger thing because it's really a passion for the sport. And what this is this is represented is not everyone can be a football player.

Everyone has tried. Everyone has believed at some point that they could become a football player. But I think there are lots of people who understood soon enough that they weren't going to turn into football players, but they still wanted to do something related to football. And the passion, it's true, it's a matter of education, but I would say that firstly it's a matter of passion. And so with this passion, we have a lot of football players, but a lot of people interested in football, in the phenomenon. and studying the phenomenon. And this has turned into understanding the game better.

And in the case of the coaches, more studies, more development, to understand the game better eventually sooner than in other countries. And so I think this understanding of the game is also important because not only for their own preparation, but what they can give to the players. And I think that in Bifika, this is very clear. but it's something that we also need to think because what we see now is our players are very well educated

Zhuang is a very very well educated in football terms well in his case not only in football in football in terms but yeah exactly but in most cases of our young football players very educated in football but it's it's something that

we really insist that they keep on on evolving and really trying to learn better to improve the development of the player. The problem that we feel sometimes is that this is turning the players a little bit similar to one another, you know? What we feel now is with the change that we are feeling in football, with the intensity, with the high intensity of matches with the very physical profile of games, at some point we need to really maybe shift a little bit, what we're doing.

because we are producing, I think, again, I'm biased, but very talented players, players that are very well educated in tactical terms, but need to also adapt to this new football that we are experiencing now. And so this is also a challenge. I'm sorry if I just a little bit from the question, but it's something that we, yeah, that we need to also look for. But I would say that, yeah, I'd say passion that turned into education, and that's a started soon, making it like a competitive advantage for our players. Guillaume, I mean, this is fascinating to me. I mean, I cover Italy, which has a population which is five or six times the size of Portugal. Italy has a real problem producing players,

certainly compared with in the 1980s and the 1990s. And it was really interesting to hear you just say maybe the players are, well, they're very well educated, particularly when it comes to the tactical side of the game. I think that's true of a lot of young Italian players coming through academy level as well. I think one of the things that you guys get right is you always prioritise. It seems to me you prioritize skill and technique,

whereas the Italians kind of stop doing that. They think actually, to your latter point, the players need to more physical, be able to hack it at greater intensity. And so they tend to prioritize that instead of technique, whereas you have this very steady, flow of highly talented technical players that keep coming through. I think if you were to look at Jauneeves and Vitina in terms of their size,

you might not think they would be able to compete in the Premier League or in the Champions League. And instead, they've shown that they can with their size because they're so good technically. Can you speak to that? I would be a little bit worried if you were to go over to the other side and basically think about we need to make these players more physical. more intense because even when top clubs sign your players straight out of your Benfica Academy, they seem to be able to compete, whether they go and play in France, Spain, and England, almost immediately.

It's an excellent question and it's my fault. I assume the technical side as basis. And then I should have mentioned it. When we start to look at young kids and we're starting to look at kids younger than ever, just out of curiosity, 75% of our recruitment happens between 6 and 12. So we're starting to look always to younger kids. And there's basically three things that we look at, and these three things, we've been looking at them for a long period of time. And it's technical ability, it's decision-making, and it's the quickness that the good decisions are made. These are basically the three things to look for in the kit, from from efficacy's perspective.

It's basically the three things to look at. And I may have jumped a little bit to the conclusion, saying that this is something. that we don't we are not allowed to not look at ever so it's the the problem is for a long period of time we have looked at almost only this because the players that we've been identifying have been so good in these three things that they've always been especially in the internal competition able to surpass the kids that are bigger and higher than than them with these with these three abilities. So yeah, this, of course, is the basis and that will not change. The problem is that for this modern football, we've been feeling that it may fall short in some cases,

especially depending on the way that these kids, because we're looking at them really early, the way that they mature. And even with these new, the players that have been chosen to be going, promoted to the first team in recent times. We've been feeling that the coach's decision takes, there's a lot of influence in that decision with the, also

with the physical side of the players and not only the technical, but it may be my fault because I'm assuming that there's a condition for a kid that wants to move to the first team. Yeah. So you're right. You're absolutely right. Guillaume, it's been absolutely fascinating having you on.

Thank you very much indeed. And congratulations on doing such a great job. Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. Brilliant. Guillemi Mully with us there, the Benfica Academy Director. We're going to finish on Fiorentina. Before we do, can you tell us a bit more about Lenet Carl at Bayern? Because he just scored his sixth goal of the season, didn't he? We'll ignore the fact that it was a two-wheel draw with Mints who were bottom of the table. But I just think another exciting young number 10 forward. What would you call him that they've suddenly got? He's the new Messi. TV. He was asked about him.

He's, Messi is his idol. And there are some moves that are, obviously, it's very early days, but there's some similarities in the way he plays. He's left-footed. He likes to really dribble past players. He's got a wonderful finish, which often is very placed, very deliberate, rather than struck with real force. Again, not unlike a certain Argentinian player who's won the odd thing or two in his career. But the fact that this guy has become a automatic starter.

at this age, in a team as stacked as Bayern, I think his testament just how exciting and consistent he's already been. His technical understanding is wonderful. He comes up with these really creative moments. He's done so not by going the regular route, which is, you know, you play as an under 17 player and then maybe the under 19s or the under 23s and then eventually you get the odd game. But he basically went straight from the under 17s, jumped to age groups and would have had his debut already in April if it hadn't been for an injury. I think Raffa Guerrero was supposed to come off for him,

but then there was an injury. So at the time, Palinia came on for the last few minutes in the game against Heidenheim. Otherwise, he already had his debut then, but he was brought in. And he's one of the players that, I know James was a little bit dismissive, dismissive of the Club World Cup early on,

but he's one of the players who's really benefited from this competition because A, by the team being together for a prolonged period of time, the coaches had the sort of time to work with him that they wouldn't have had if he'd been just coming straight from the under 17s into the first team, let's say, in July or August, but also, of course, the opportunity to play once Jamar Muzhalla got injured in that competition. So these things had to happen kind of simultaneously.

Lee, Mueller moved away, Muzaa Gordinja, Komen was sold, Sonny was sold, and suddenly there was a space opening up behind Harry Kane for Leonard Carl, but I don't think even

his biggest sort of fans or people who rated him as highly as possible within the club would have dreamt of his career going as stratospheric as it has gone in the last what, four, five, six weeks or so. Slightly disappointing.

And now there's big talk, yeah, sorry. I was just going to say, I'm slightly disappointed in you, to be honest, there, Raff, because you and James had a really, really polite argument earlier, which I enjoyed, but what you've just done felt a little bit over the line. And as a result, I'm going to have to... I'm going to have to withdraw your nomination for next year's FIFA Peace Prize. So that's it.

Damn. You were a shoe in as well. I think there is still hope for me, judging by the previous recipient. I don't know. Yeah. Maybe. Probably no comment, I think. Maybe.

So listen, guys, it's Christmas. All right. It's Christmas and it's our last Euroleagues of the year. So let's just end with something really, really negative. Fiorentina, along with Wolves, are the only teams in Europe's top five leagues without a league win. Obviously, we're not going to talk about wolves. It's the Euroleagues. We're going to talk about Fiorentina, James.

What's going on? Massive name of club. Great, great history. Iconic shirt. We cannot lose Fiorentina from Seria. No, obviously very successful in the kind of 50s and 60s, which is a European Cup final. I think a lot of people in the UK of a certain age will associate them with Battis Stuta, Manuel Uri Costa, that incredible feel and Nintendo shirt that they used to wear. You shouldn't go and notice that they actually got relegated with Battis Stuter when he signed in the early 90s.

I did not know that. And just to show how the times were very different in those. days. Batistuta stayed and got them up. How many goals did he score in Seria B? He did decent, although Siliabee then was kind of as good as the Premier League is now. Very competitive.

So it's not unprecedented for a team that is more talented than it suggests to go down in Furentina's case. What's going wrong? Well, this time last year, Rossi, they were top of the table. They were joint top. And now they're bottom with six points after 15 games, as you mentioned, still winless.

they spent 90 million in the summer and there was no indication that this was going to happen there has been sort of rumblings of discontent however I mean the coach last year a guy called Rafael Palladino he led them to their best league finish in a decade got them to a conference league semi-final the club sort of said right here's your new contract he then walked at the end of the season

didn't share the vision that Daniela Pradee the sporting director had for the club both the coach and sporting director were kind of unpopular with the fans. Florence is very, very demanding city. I remember Florence kind of leading place for the Renaissance has a very high opinion of itself. Its football fans are like art critics. And so even last year, they were like, this is not good enough. So the coach walks, the sporting director then quits in the autumn.

The coach's replacement, Stefanopioli, he won the league. Remember with AC Milan not so long ago, but it spent the last year kind of coaching Cristiano Ronaldo Al Nassar. Some of his coaching staff left. One went to coach Sunderland, or is an assistant to LeBri at Sunderland, is doing a really good job there, feeling that that coach, Stefano Pioi, misses him. And they've just spiraled. And it's one of those things where one bad mistake, it needs a correction,

and they'd go and make another mistake, and then another mistake. And so, you know, the new coach, Palo Finoli, who replaced, Stefanofi, he basically called out one of his players for refusing to take a penalty. And then that player went on social media and said, no, no, I didn't. I never did that. And it's times like these where you need a dressing room that's really unified, understands the position it's in. And as I said, this was a team that has been used to getting to European finals in the

Conference League over last few years. It's not used to being in a relegation battle. And you really see that at the moment. I think it's one of the most iconic shirts in world football. I agree. And you would know, Jules, because you own almost every share in World Football. I'm with you. I'm with you.

I was just wondering, would that been the seven-up season when they got relegated? Oh, that's a good question. Is it before then? I think it was the seven-up season. But the iconic one is Nintendo, right? The iconic one is Nintendo. They also had one that was sponsored by a famous kind of Italian ice cream brand as well, which is just very 90s.

Yeah, San Montana. I don't know if anyone's on this. This panel has had Samantana. Store-bought ice cream, which, yeah, I can see Honnigstein sort of turning his nose up on that, saying it's not from a Bilateria. It's from a refrigerator. I'm surprised for Yorantina didn't turn their note. In Tuscany, store-bought ice cream as the sponsor. It's not bad. It's not bad, Samantana.

If you want to send me some tubs, buy all means. Guys, lovely stuff. Thank you all very much indeed. Juliana Le Ron, Raphael Honestine, and James Horncastle, who've been with us on the EuroLeon. The next episode of the Football Daily will be the commentator's view Christmas special. That should be great. As always, thank you so much for listening.

On the Football Daily podcast, The Euroleagues with Steve Crosman. This winter, cricket's oldest rivalry is reignited. Scotland and Australia do battle to compete for the ashes. That is extraordinary. Here live, ball by board, Commentary on Fife Sports Extra and get analysis and reaction

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