Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Pet turtles and the two-metre Messi

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Who keeps four turtles in their fridge? And who is the two-metre Messi? John Bennett is joined by Julien Laurens, Rafa Honigstein and Mina Rzouki for some interesting chat about European football and so much more. The team discuss a novel approach to match coverage in French broadcasting. Have Germany unearthed a new number nine? Do Italy have an identity under Luciano Spaletti? And have France filled the gap left by the retirement of Antoine Griezmann? Plus – were Juventus right to sack Thiago Motta? And how furious are Bayern Munich after a serious injury suffered by Alphonso Davies playing for Canada. TIMECODES: 0 mins: Intro 1.06: The reaction in Germany to Thomas Tuchel’s start as England manager 4.09: Live coverage of the 12th tier of French football 8.33: Germany’s search for a number nine – featuring Tim Kleindienst (who keeps turtles) and Nick Woltemade (who is very tall). 16.24: Have the Italian team got an identity? 19.54: Why can Italy no longer produce world-class players? 22.20: Can Michael Olise fill the gap left by the retirement of Antoine Griezmann? 26.39: What role is there for Rayan Cherki in the France squad? 29: How big a blow for Bayern is the injury suffered by Alphonso Davies? 33.55: Were Juventus right to sack Thiago Motta? And what about Igor Tudor?Football commentaries this week: Thursday 27th March WOMENS CHAMPIONS LEAGUE: Chelsea v Manchester City 2000 KO - Jonathan Pearce and Gilly Flaherty.Saturday 29th March FA CUP: Fulham v Crystal Palace 1215 KO - Conor McNamara and Mark Schwarzer. SCOTTISH PREMIERSHIP: Celtic v Hearts 1500 KO - Ian Dennis and Pat Nevin. FA CUP: Brighton v Nottingham Forest 1715 KO - Chris Wise. Sunday 30th March FA CUP: Preston North End v Aston Villa 1330 KO - John Murray and Leon Osman. WOMENS SUPER LEAGUE: Chelsea v West Ham 1630 KO - LIVE ON SPORTS EXTRA

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcasts, the EuroLeaks with John Bennett. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello. Oh my God, here we go. Stop it, Mina. Be serious. We know what you're thinking now.

We know what you're thinking now. Just for once, just focus. Focus, Mina. You're the one that's setting it. Focus on the sport, Mina. Just in a second. We're good, we're good. Daily Podcasts. The EuroLeagues with John Bennett. Listen on BBC Sounds. Okay, let's try that again. Hello and welcome to EuroLeagues. The international break is over. We're heading into the final stretch of the season. So plenty of big talking points from European football to discuss with Julian Laronz, Raphael Honigstein and Mina Rizuki. Hello to all of you. great to speak to you again.

And before we get going properly, Rafa, we've just had the first international break with a German manager in charge of England. So what's been the coverage over in Germany of Thomas Tuchel's England? Have the German fans been singing three lines again? Again? Remember, you're in 96, you stole the song from us. Yeah, I don't think they sung that line. Oh, okay. It was just the chorus.

You stole the tune. Yeah, the tune. Not yet, not yet. I mean, the coverage is very interesting because there's this classic, I call it sort of newspaper ping pong going on. So the German media look at what the sort of the worst take in English media is from, you know, colonists or whatever. And they say, Oh, the English are having a real go to must all this is what they're saying. Saying is rubbish. And then somebody in England looks at that coverage and says, Oh, German media says it took all this rubbish. And it just goes back and forth, back and forth the whole time. I don't think many people would have seen the game in Germany. I don't think many people have really strong opinions on Thomas Tuchel, the England manager, just yet.

But because it is such a novelty, there is a lot of attention and people are just generating this content out of almost out of thin air. My personal take is that it's far too early to know. We don't know what England will look like. He's not going to judge on games against Albania in the qualifiers. It all comes down to one or two games at the World Cup. But it is, I think what is reflected is that it does feel slightly weird.

I think more so for the English, my feeling is, because we don't have that strong animosity sporting rivalry with England. Most people in Germany look up to English football. They like it, they have a sort of a weakness for it. There's a sense of pride. There's another German manager at a big English institution before it was Klopp at Liverpool. And we don't really think of it in terms of this kind of somehow bad, you know, or somehow we don't want England to succeed in a way that is really important to us. It's more about the Italians and the Dutch to a lesser extent. So yeah, it's a fascinating dynamic. I'm really interested

to see how this one's going to evolve. I agree with Raph. I don't think we can judge really massively on Albania and Latvia. We could see a bit of the differences that he wants to do. I like the fact that what he did off the pitch, you know, restructured St. Joseph's Park, wanted a different mindset, all the high five stuff. The fact that he's trying different things basically, and that's what we saw I think over the week. Yeah, the midfield changing the different ways

that he wants to play. I think having the tactical ability, which is what everyone pounded Southgate about, then it's nice to have somebody who is willing to try different things on a tactical level. So be careful when you read that the German press is having a go at Thomas Stueckholm saying everything is rubbish. On Euroleagues this week we're going to discuss the 29-year-old emerging as Germany's new number nine for the World

Cup, how injuries from the international break could damage Bayern Munich's Champions League chances. Rafa is very upset about this and the start of the two-door era at Juventus. But first, and I never thought I'd say this on Euroleagues, we're going to start with the 12th tier of French football because a French TV station came up with what we think is a brilliant way to fill the gap left by the lack of club football over the international break. They televised the game from the 12th tier but not only that Jules, they gave it the game from the 12th tier, but not only that duels, they gave it the full top flight treatment, didn't they? Top pundits, all the camera angles.

Everything. Yeah, everything, JB. It was pretty amazing to see, to be fair. It's not the first time that being sports, so the broadcaster in question here, is trying to put the spotlight really on just grassroots football, lower leagues, like super low lower league clubs, outside of what you usually see on their channels, which is a bit of Ligue 1, the Bundesliga they have, they've got La Liga and rightly so, those are the best things that they have on their channels. And this time your club, if you were a grassroots club, could like enter, if you like, sort of raffle and then they would

pick a game that they would go and give the full pro treatment basically. So they went to Aiguille, which is in Haute-Loire, a team, as you said, in the 12th division of French football. So I think there's the 13th division and then that's it. So it's almost the lowest of the low that you can play in France. They were playing against Lausanne, the reserve team of Lausanne, and literally being sport arrived with six or seven cameras I think it was. Their star pundit who is Tony Anderson, the former Barcelona, Marseille, Monaco and Brazil striker. They had their main presenter, they had the commentator and co-coms who usually did Bundesliga, Jean-Charles Sabatier who's very famous in France, the voice is very noticeable, everybody knows who he is especially

if you're a Bundesliga fan. Yeah and they had flash interviews, they had everything and to be fair they didn't tell me how many people watched the show, me and the kids watched a little bit of it but they did a really good job of it and it was very special for the players you could feel there was far more people watching in this little pitch very bubbly pitch in the middle of nowhere in France than usually and this guy who was clearly the best player in a career things called a hat-trick they won 6-0 I clearly had planned some celebrations in case he was gonna score and can do it in front of the whole country on television. So one was the Kylian Mbappe one, the other one he scored a bit of a scrappy goal as well.

But then when and his two brothers were clearly on the touchline waiting in case and then they did the call Palmer all three of them in front of the camera. It was brilliant. It was really, really, really good fun. Yeah, I'm not sure if Amid or Raffi saw any clips, but it was proper, proper low level, wasn't it? It's basically in a field and some of the guys when they were running looked a bit like me when I'm not sure if Mina or Rafa, you saw any clips, but it was proper, proper low level, wasn't it? It was basically in a field, and some of the guys when they were running looked a bit like me when I'm running. And I looked at what the 12th tier in English football is, and it's kind of older shot and district league,

Sheffield and Hallamshire County Senior League, West Yorkshire Football League as well. Rafa, how far does the coverage, I know this is a one-off, but in German football, I mean here in England we go down to fifth division where you can see live games, how far does it go down the pyramid in Germany TV coverage? I mean live games only League One and Two really, I don't think League Three is on live, certainly not below because that's amateur football, maybe the Cup final or something might be broadcast on local television.

But yeah, I mean, this sort of football reminded me of my, of my career in inverted commerce. We played on what we call the red, the Asche in Germany, which is those sort of red clay because you weren't allowed on the proper pictures as amateurs and when you slide do a sliding tackle your whole leg is basically gone but yeah the camera for some reason the camera crew never toned up to such a shame can't find that on YouTube Mina you know what this is what's gonna happen now though Guillaume Balaguez is gonna want us to go and cover Biggleswade. Give the full chance. We don't want to go that low.

Top flight. Yeah, not that bad. Oh, it wasn't me who said that, Guillaume. It wasn't me. From the 12th tier back to the top tier, the Nations League quarterfinals really delivered on Sunday night. 21 goals in the four second legs. One of the best ties.

A thriller between Germany and Italy. So in case you missed it, Germany won the first leg 2-1 in Italy. The return match in Dortmund, Italy 3-0 down at the break. Everyone was moaning, weren't they, Meena, about how bad the performance was. But then they battled back to draw 3-3. Not quite enough though. Germany won 5-4 on aggregate, so they're through to the semi-finals. They'll play Portugal in June. 5-4 on aggregate, so they're through to the semi-finals. They'll play Portugal in June. And Rafa, a Germany striker caught the eye again, but he's not a household name across Europe.

Tim Kleindienst of Borussia Mönchengladbach scored in both matches, only made his Germany debut in October, but he's 29 years old. He's now got six caps, already four goals. Where's he been then, Kleindienst? Well, you say not a household name outside Germany. Certainly not a household name inside Germany either,

because he's your classic late bloomer who's only ever been at Heidenheim in lower divisions. Of course, they went up a couple of years ago thanks to his goals. But then he moved on to Borussia Mönchengladbach, had a slow start, but then really started scoring goals. And all of a sudden he is the great hope for that vacant Germany number nine spot that lots of forwards have tried to fill really since the

retirement of Miroslav Klauser with varying degrees of success, but very hardworking Rudi Föller, who's the sports director, Germany, of course, is himself a former number nine, a great number nine, said he did all the things right, had really a hand in all three goals apart from the one he scored. And it was the kind of performance that gave Germany a bit of hope for the World Cup and maybe put a bit of pressure on the likes of Niklas Fylkrug was injured at the moment and also Kai Havertz of course, who's out sadly. So yeah, great game for him

and a bit of a sense of maybe this could be the guy. Not a long-term solution though, because as you said, he's 29 turning 30 in August. Meena, we'll talk about Italy in a moment, but on Kleindienst, were you impressed by his performance? Italy was impressed by his performance. They noted that him coming on in the 2-1 loss at San Siro was one of the difference makers and that it was one of the right moves that Nagelsmann had made because he was able to

identify the gaps and especially the one between Bastoni and Di Lorenzo at the back and just take full advantage in a way that his predecessor couldn't. And they were talking about his ability in the second half is one of the things that they were scared of. So I think that when you're talking about strikers and Gazeta del Sport is waxing lyrical about how good he was and what a difference he makes, then you know you're onto a player that's doing something very impressive. Not that exactly Italy has got the world's greatest defense these days, so I don't know. Take of that what you will. Well Tim Kleindienst is famous, I use the word hesitantly, in Germany for having four turtles as pets, Greek turtles, and they hibern turtles and they hibernate me hibernate

and they tend to Borrow into the ground hibernate But he doesn't want that to happen because then he can't control the temperature etc So he puts them in the fridge over a few months and apparently that is the done thing for pet turtles. I know you're laughing, but it's true. But I'm just wondering if Gazetta and all these people knew about it,

because otherwise it would have had the perfect headline. No, I mean, he had Italy's back four and ice, just like the turtles back. Oh, nice. I've got a lovely, he's my new favorite player. I've got a lovely quote from him here about the turtles. He says, little by little, the time is coming when we will be able to take them out of the refrigerator

again. Once you see them, they are very relaxed animals. I think these animals radiate a beautiful calm. Wow. I mean, what a start of the show. We've had 12 division French football. Yeah, and a guy who... Turtles benefit. Who puts them of the show. We've had 12 division French football. Yeah, and a guy who... Who puts them in the fridge.

Brilliant. Everybody stopped listening. Is he a bit of a cult hero figure then, Raf, in Germany, because of the turtles, because of the fact he's a late bloomer? Not yet, but I think he's well on his way. I mean, a couple more goals against Portugal or then maybe in the final, and he's there. I mean, Phil Krug was a bit of a card hero because he has that gap in his tooth and he looks a little bit like not your modern footballer and plays slightly differently. As I said earlier, Germany's

been crying out for a number nine that scores goals, that leads the line, that is a bit different. And he could be that guy in the short run, but it's still early days and we have to see how Nagelsmann and his team evolve. I mean, one interesting thing is, you know, without Florian Wirtz, there's kind of a different structure a little bit. Jamal Muziala is more central and then the wingers are more wingers. When you have Wirtz and Muziala on the pitch, then it's more kind of number two number two number tens. And then the normal number nine who thrives on crosses and so on might not be that suited to that kind of game. So I think he fitted in perfectly for these two matches. But if Wirtz comes back, not when Wirtz comes back, I should say, then maybe Nagatman wants to go back to a more

sort of mobile centre forward and we'll go back to Kai Havertz. And there's another striker emerging as well. I don't have any anecdotes about what pets they have, sadly, but Nick Vultemarda scored a hat-trick against Spain for Germany's under-21s the other night. Again, he might be a new name to a lot of our audience. Tell us more about him and how promising he is. Can we see him in the Premier League in a few years? Well, I mean, let him become established at Stuttgart first. Former Werder Bremen player.

Two meters tall, but the cliché is true. He's got a really good touch, especially in the box. He likes to dribble, dribble past players in tight spaces. You look at anything, there's no way he can control the ball properly. He's just going to head it or boot or something, but he actually is very, very skillful, a really nice guy. Um, doesn't touch a drop of alcohol at the Werder Bremen training camp a few years ago, the senior players tried to bribe him and it was almost kind of an auction to see who

would give him the most money to taste alcohol. He told the anecdote without saying who in the end won or what he did. So he left that open a little bit vague, but apparently he's a very kind of straight guy in terms of his professionalism, doesn't eat meat either. And yeah, lovely guy. Did have some interesting nicknames, like 2-Meter Messy, I like that one, Big Nick. Could be an interesting guy. And the reason why there's a lot of attention on him at the moment or more so than his return or his performances in the under 21s might warrant is that on top of the nine goals he scored in the Bundesliga doesn't always start. There is talk in Munich that he might be exactly the kind of guy that Bayern will sign in a summer to be the backup and then eventual successor to Harry Kane.

That's why a lot of suddenly a lot of hype around him, but certainly one to watch and yeah, great, great goals and great watch. Great guy to see. So victory for Germany, defeat though Mina for Italy. Luciano Spalletti has been there since August 2023, so a year and a half now. Do we have a good idea of what this Italy looks like? Has enough progress been made, do you think? No, we don't have an idea of what this Italy looks like. We know that they want to play a 3-5-2, which is, you see, once upon a time, what Italy relied upon was a block from a specific club, right?

So it's either Juventus Spine, or it's mostly been Juventus that they've relied on, and the chemistry that was already established from club level and moving that onto the national team. But we don't have that anymore, although there are five players from Napoli, but what he is going by this time Spalletti is that he's, you know, he's toyed with different formations and we know that

it was a disaster in the Euros. So it's about establishing the 3-5-2 as the core formation for everyone because that's the most widely used shape in Italian football, whether it be Roma or Napoli or Inter, everyone's using the 352. But of course there are limitations of that, which you see, especially when it's being heavily pressed, like we saw from Germany. But I think that there was actually a lot of satisfaction from the first leg, and it was a loss. And they know that Italy has the understanding that there is a huge problem when it comes to set pieces

and that they don't have the physicality and the height that he tried to change in the second leg in Dortmund when he played the likes of Maldini to try to contain possession and just introduce more height with Federico Gatti. But obviously we know what happened in the first half. This Italy, unfortunately, one of the things that I think is so brilliant about Italian coaches,

a little bit like Carlo Ancelotti at Real Madrid, is that they thrive in chaos. And that's one of the things that you try to do, is try to create chaotic situations, and then Italians know how to deal with it. This team doesn't. They're very learned in the way that they're supposed to play their football, and when it all becomes chaotic,

they don't actually know how to maintain possession, put their foot on the ball, and try to control in the way that we've seen previous Italian teams do. But all in all, I think that there were some things that you saw from a team that's growing. Do they have the level of attacking talent that Germany has? No, and we have to accept that.

The thing is, with that defeat, it means because for the team that was still in the Nations League quarterfinals, we didn't know in which group for the World Cup was still in the Nations quarterfinals, we didn't know in which group for the World Cup qualifiers they would go into. So it depends if you qualify for the semi-final, then you go into a group of four. If you're not, you're going to group of five, et cetera. And that means that defeat means that Italy are now in the Norway group, which, okay,

Italy should be Norway, really, and Norway haven't qualified for World Cup since I think 1998. But this is still a very good Norwegian generation with Haaland and Odegaard and Soloth and Lusa, etc. And now when we know Mina, sorry to remind you all of that, but how bad Italy have been in the last two World Cup qualifiers campaign. I think there might be a bit of a stress. Patrick, Patrick, come on.

As long as there's no North Macedonia, please just leave us alone. It's okay to be Norway instead of Israel. But yeah, it would be a bit tense, I think, come June when I think they play Norway in their first qualifying game or second. Imagine the Giants against the Cetillisai that's really struggling with no height and no ability in the aerial duels and conceding everything from set pieces. And now they're going to face the giants, the tallest players in the world from Norway. I mean, this is going to be so fun to watch.

On a serious note, Mina, Italian footballers, even if in the past they didn't travel much, I'm really struggling to find one or two, maybe three world-class Italian players. And this is not a new thing. This is, I think, for the last five, six years. What classic? Players that could walk into any team in the world, where you know immediately this guy can play any team. Where are these players? And where is the discussion in Italy, why they stop producing world-class players? Is it happening at all? Well, if you listen to Capello,

he blames Pep Guardiola for it. So, it's ridiculous. But it is a case of what you have a lot of the times. And this is one of the things that we'll talk about later, for example, with Juventus, is that this firm belief now in coaches philosophy right so you've got to play the the derby way or you've got to play the tiago marte way and that's robbing some of the some of the players own ability own characteristics and own courage to really show

what they have i would say that bonucci and and chelini were world class but that's probably the last thing we saw was that Euros and everything after that now. Barela is not far surely and neither is Bastoni. I think Barela and Bastoni I would say are the two best that we have. I think that not far, I think Barela is I think a Barela if you put him in most teams is an exceptional talent. I think Tonali is slowly developing into something that's very important, but again, not world-class. I get what you're saying by that.

You know, there isn't a Roberto Vaggio, that's for sure. You know? And I think the most, most of that is concentrated in attack, especially in attack. It just seems to be a team that's just void of genuine stardom. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball. I'm John Murray. Hello, I'm Ian Dennis and Fridays on the Football Daily means one thing. It's time for the Commentators View episode. I was aiming to get there, I think, at 5.30 for what I thought was an 8 o'clock kick-off.

My memory is coming over a bridge or coming down a road where you could actually see inside the stadium and I could see the players on the pitch getting ready for a 545 kickoff and I was nowhere near the commentators view only on the football daily listen on BBC sounds on the football daily podcast the euro leagues with John Bennett listen on BBC sounds there are areas in which France are spoiled for options at the moment, others were perhaps less spoiled and with the surprise retirement of Antoine Griezmann earlier in the season there was a vacancy in the kind of playmaker role for France and Jules they may have found the answer Michael Alissé who was superb wasn't he in that second leg against Croatia. Do you think he could be emerging as a really key man heading to the World Cup next year?

Yeah, I think that's the idea. That's certainly the feeling back home right now. It's almost a performance that we've been expecting from him. Really, that was his sixth gap against Croatia on Sunday. Before that, in the five previous ones, there was no goals, no assists. There were glimpses, certainly, because he's obviously a very, very good player, very talented player. In terms of end product, we've been a little bit left, okay, like, come on, he needs to do a bit more, he needs to give a bit more to this team if he really wants to be a starter, if he wants to be,

you know, where the successor to Griezmann and help team, obviously going really far. And I think on Sunday he showed that he's got the possibility. What's really interesting is obviously plays on the right wing at Bayern, although he's not a winger per se, one, because he doesn't rely on his space like typical wingers, if you want. But he's got a wonderful left foot and Deschamps played him centrally. I'm sure we mentioned back in September, the first time he was called up, that I think Deschamps in the back of his mind had this idea that although he doesn't play as a number 10 centrally for Bayern, because that's Moussala obviously,

there was somewhere, there was something that he could do for France, even if I think usually national team head coach especially like a player for them to play in the same position as in club level for obvious reason because you've got the right bearings, you know the position inside out. But in his case, he thought there was something there as a 10 for Olise. He played there for the Olympics,

if you remember JB, we were there. And with good things and not so good things in that France team under Thierry Henry. But on Sunday, it was great. Dembele was on the right, Barcola on the left, Mbappe up front. There was a lot of movement and rotation especially between Dembele and Olisse as we saw in the second goal that Olisse gave from the right-hand side to Dembele central but it felt like Mbappe, Dembele and Olisse especially like love playing with each other intricate passes, loads of movement, loads of triangles, one-twos, and I think that was

really, really promising. So well done to Mikael, first of all, because he almost validated all the progress he showed at Bayern. And also, it's not easy, especially for him as a dual national between England and France and even Algeria and Nigeria, if you want, but to come in a country like this where he speaks French but it's a little bit limited as we saw in his post-match interview on the pitch. So really, really super proud of what he did there against Croatia.

He's been Bayern's most consistent performer, even so more so than Kane, even more so than Musiala. Certainly of all the wingers that Bayern have, he's been the one that can be relied upon to come up with big moments. And even if those big moments are not there, his work rate is great. He's had some less than amazing performances like everyone else at this Bayern team, but I think over the whole season, he's probably been Bayern's outstanding player. And he's got a chance of maybe winning the Germany's player of the year award. Interesting that Franz see him more centrally. Kompany has tried him a couple of times when Muziala was out to play more centrally. He didn't really look super happy there. I think it's probably different when you have possession

like Bayern have against deep sides, then if you're a number 10, but you're a winger, then the space becomes, I think, a bit restrictive for you. You're happier maybe on the side where you can, uh, move out and in and have a bit more freedom to run at players, but he's got the ability, he's got the vision, he's got the technique. And I think he's a classic case of a player who was one of his best players at his former team, clearly, but being surrounded by better players, raising his game,

developing, taking more responsibility. He's gone to a different level this season. It seems like Didier Deschamps is very much in love with him because that's what he was missing, right? Is that creative force, and especially with Antoine Griezmann leaving. But what about Ryan Shirky that we've talked about before, and what he managed to do for the under 21s,

and Desiree Dewey? And so I'm just wondering, what about the other opportunities, or is it that Didier Deschamps is now set on having, Elise, and having that freedom, allowing him that freedom to move and create? Because in essence essence ever since they've lost Paul Pogba I think that that's something that's been missing and that's hindered even that the the play of the forwards like Mbappe. You're right, yeah. You're right and even more with Griezmann as well, you know, not being there.

For Cherokee, I thought he should have been called up this time, he's been incredible this season really because the talent, we've talked about him so many times on the show since he was 16, even before that. The talent is there. There's no doubt. Right foot, left foot, I know I always say it, but because I just love it so much, but a player at this level who takes corners with each foot,

depending on which side of the corner it is, to be an in-swinger every time. It's just incredible. And this is Cherokee for you and against England on last Friday. He was incredible really. And him at Clioche probably deserved the chance at some point. Dwee got his chance and took it very nicely for his debut on that second leg against Croatia on Sunday because he came on at the start of extra time.

And for a 19-year-old who had never played Champions League before this season, had never, obviously, even imagined what it was to play for France, just looked so comfortable and so at ease. It was great because, as you know, Mina, Deschamps is so conservative. I fear that really in his mind, it's one of them three. So one of Douai, Cherokee and Akliyush who will have a chance this season and next going to the World Cup, I think, unless there's injury for this squad. And I think that's a bit of a shame because there might not be room for all three of them. I understand that. But you can also, for example,

not have, I don't know, a Genduziuzi for example and instead have Cherokee to have just a bit more to bolster your attack in terms of options and talent but I just don't think Deschamps will do that so I fear it will be Douay or Cherokee or Acléus and right now you have to say that Douay is a bit ahead of the other two. Whatever way they they go though that is really exciting for France fans. Now Julien and Mina, Rafa's been in good mood, hasn't he, so far today? Talking turtles and his football career as well. But he might get a bit angry when we talk about our next subject, injuries, because it's been a bit of a nightmare for Bayern Munich, hasn't it, this international break? Up at Meccano, out for several weeks with a left

knee injury, but the worst one, Alfonso Davis, out for several months, cru left knee injury but the worst one Alfonso Davis out for several months cruciate ligament injury injured playing for Canada and his agent is really angry about this isn't it and the fact that he played in that game a third place playoff against USA so he's talking to one soccer and he said the agent this is I'm very disappointed Alfonso was not 100% after the Mexico game and it was planned that he was not going to start against the USA. As a captain I feel he was pressured to start the game by the coach. Alfonso is not the kind of guy to say no in those moments. He ended up playing and look what happened. So the agents are furious, Rafa. What about Bayern Munich?

They are also furious. They cannot understand why this happened. They understand that Jesse Marsh being an American wanted to beat the US badly, but being an international manager comes with a bit more responsibility for the welfare of your players. Apparently, according to the agent and some reports I've read, Davis wasn't 100% right after the first, even before the first game. And then, as you said, the idea was not to play him in the second game. And after only six minutes he came off.

Initially, the reports were, or the doctors in Canada felt it wasn't that bad an injury but it's not just an ACL there's also damage to his cartilage which then makes it not just a six month break but could could be eight could be nine depending on how severe that is. So absolutely horrific news for him, of course, first of all, but also for Bayern, because he is probably the one player they can't do without. It sounds strange when you think of a left back, but because of his pace and his energy, he makes the back four work. And it's a back four that is incredibly high

and have 60 meters of grass often to defend. And he's kind of the cheap mode because the long ball behind, even if it catches out Upa Mikano or Kim, Davis then is often the guy who just catches up with a center forward or with the winger. And without him, Bayern enough to play deeper, that means they can put less pressure on, that means they're not really as connected in midfield

if the defense is further back and the company's game plan will have to change. The replacements he has, whether that's Guerrero or Ito or Stanisic maybe playing on the wrong side. None of them are nowhere near as good and fast and dynamic as Davis. And if you add the problem with Upamecano, that leaves them with two centre backs. Really, I mean, Ito can be an option as well, but it's Dyer, it's Ito and it's Kim. And a lot of people in Germany have said, okay, that's it for Bayern as far as the Champions League concerned. It's that big a blow.

Wow, that big. So they're playing Inter, aren't they? Next up, does that swing things then, do you think, Mina? There's Lautaro Martinez and Denzel Dumfries, who are out with injury, who were both sent back to Milan when they had travelled for international duty. But I would imagine both of them would be available by the time the Bayern Munich game comes around. I'm going to honestly say this, I thought that Inter was going to win that regardless and perhaps that's just me. I mean, I'm a Juve fan so it's not like I'm saying this because I love Inter. But I just think overall

they don't have perhaps the attacking brilliance that Bayern can produce, but I think they have the better balance. And watching their games and watching Bayern's games, I think that Inter were perhaps slight favorites. But yeah, surely I think the Alfonso Davis not being available is going to, it's gonna massively help Inter going forward.

But this is the side that really deserves right now to have a really good run in Europe. And I'm so excited to see what happens with Bayern because I think it's time that finally Simone Zaghi was awarded the Panccina d'Oro. So he won an award for his performance as coach for Inter last season. And he was finally recognized.

It was the first time he won this award for all that he's done for Inter and how much he's done for Inter and how well and how much he's produced for them and I just think that sometimes you know he doesn't get enough compliments so but of course he has to win the big matches and Bayern coming around without an Alphonse de Viz stands them in good stead. So we've put Rafa in a bad mood let's put Mina in a bad mood now by talking about Juventus. Only a little bit of time to talk to Thiago Motta and the fact that he is gone, Igor Tudor has come in at Juventus so we'll give Mina a run up here to get her thoughts.

Jules what did you make of this then? So they lost their last two games under him didn't they? Knocked out the Coppa Italia, lost to PSV in the Champions League playoffs. Was it the right time Jules do you think to get rid of Tiago Motta at Uwe? I think it was inevitable after those two defeats. You can lose a game, you can lose and be very good, you can lose and have a lot of chances and just it happens that you lose, but you can't lose four nil and three nil back to back games

against Atalanta and Fiorentina when you're not, you're not good on the back of what you just mentioned, being knocked out in the Champions League, etc. So I fell for him because I'm a big fan and I love Wadiz Aboulounia. He's obviously he was a great player, he was a PhD player. So I think a lot of us have plenty of time for Thiago Mota. And this doesn't mean he's not a good coach. And it doesn't mean that later on in his career,

he's not going to achieve great things. But maybe this was a little bit too early. And certainly, it just never started, really. And he struggled to get this project going. It's not just on him, obviously the player and Junto Lee as a sporting director is partly to blame too. But as a manager, you pay the price and I think it was inevitable that they were going to sack him. You see, I don't know if I agree with that. I know a lot of people coming out and saying

that doesn't mean that Tiago Mota is a bad coach. And that's the overall feeling right now, you know, that he can't be blamed for all of this. And obviously we've spoken about this before when I've discussed John Tullian and all the massive mistakes that he's made on the market. So this is the Juventus side that spent more net spend than Antonio Conte did at Juventus over three seasons and Allegri did over four,

including at the time that he bought Ronaldo in. So we're talking about this is a massive spend for Juventus. And yet some of the things that Thiago Monta has done, you know we can't blame him for some of the choices of who was brought in and which players were brought in but it was almost like he continued to double down on his tactics regardless of the fact that it seemed like he lost the dressing room when it comes to absorbing those instructions of how he wants to play. He refused to be pragmatic in any way, shape or form.

And I think that when you have the second youngest team that were now losing confidence and yet you still double down on your philosophy on football, it seemed to be like he was just like, yeah, he didn't even show enough remorse. And of course, Italy released this rumor that that Gazetta dello Sport wrote about in which they said that actually

Giuntoli had turned around to Tiago Monta and said to him, I'm ashamed to have picked you because you didn't look like you showed enough remorse for the way that he played his football. Now this has been denied, but there's no smoke without fire. And I do think that that tells you a lot about who he is as a coach, whether or not obviously

he's gonna develop, you can imagine so. But I think that he made some huge mistakes, despite the fact that he had a brilliant time at Bologna, of course. But Vincenzo Italiano, with less ability, is doing remarkably well. And he doesn't have Calafiori and Joshua Xerxy. And yet he's doing a remarkable job right now with Bologna. So there's this part of me where I'm like, well, actually, maybe Tiago Montes should take a step back and reflect on some of the mistakes that he made. I mean, Juventus is a mess on every level.

They don't even have a sponsor. That goes to show you everything you need to know. Jeep ran out, that's the long-term sponsor that they had, and they couldn't find another one. So this is a management side that's not doing well from every level up above. But I do think as a coach, when you are rotating who are the captains, when you are

changing where players are playing in the position, I mean Weston McKenney has basically played in every position on the field. Where is the best position of these players and why do you continue to expose their weaknesses as opposed to highlighting their strengths? That is the superpower of Italian coaches and he doesn't have it and I think he needs to take some responsibility for that as well. So let's see what Igor Tudor can do, Jules. Just quickly give us your verdict on that. He was at Marseille, wasn't he? I think they finished third in Ligue 1.

Yeah, he did well. He was obviously a Juventus player. He was assistant to Andrea Pirlo when Pirlo was the manager. He did well at Verona in Serie A. He's there until the end of the season and then they will see. And not many people would have accepted to just be there between April let's say and May. So he was happy for that. He drove 10 hours from Croatia to be there. That's how committed the guy was. Yeah. So let's see.

Jules, thank you very much. Mina, thank you. And Raphael Honigstein as well. Thank you very much. We're all onto YouTube now to see if we can find a clip of Raphael Honigstein playing in the 12th tier of German football Sadly, it's shaking his head. Before cameras were invented Next up on the football daily. It's the reaction to the women's champions league quarterfinal between chelsea and manchester city We'll speak to you soon This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy.

It's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years, English football has been dominated by Manchester City. Eight Premier League titles, six League Cups, three FA Cups, one Champions League. And more than a hundred charges. Somebody turned up at the Etihad Stadium and effectively served papers. I'm Clive Myrie and this is Football on Trial. The Manchester City charges. They believe they've got irrefutable evidence.

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