Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Pogba's return, Mbappe sues PSG & can Italy qualify for the World Cup?

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

Julien Laurens, Mina Rzouki and Guillem Balague join Maz Farookhi to discuss the latest from the continent.With Italy only reaching the play-offs, Gennaro Gattuso’s comments about World Cup qualification needing a ‘system change’ lead to a debate about the fundamental purpose of the World Cup.PSG are, incredibly, in court against two of their former players, with one being Kylian Mbappe! How and why?Plus, there’s lots of returns to dissect… Paul Pogba to playing football, as well as Barcelona AND Lionel Messi to Camp Nou!Danish football journalist Toke Theilade joins the show to reflect on a disastrous week for Denmark as the full panel react to the play-off draw. Is Mina confident about Italy’s chances of progression?Timecodes: 01:00 Why McTominay is being called ‘The Hero of Two Worlds’ 5:18 Gattuso demands changes to World Cup qualifying – is it bitterness or justified? 10:00 Should the World Cup actually have 100 teams? What do we really want from the World Cup?  14:50 Kylian Mbappe’s controversial international break and court case with PSG 20:08 Kheira Hamraoui's court case with PSG 25:32 Pogba set to return to the pitch 29:08 Barcelona back to Camp Nou 32:50 Messi’s own return 35:23 Denmark’s disastrous week 43:20 The World Cup play-off draw5 Live/ BBC Sounds commentaries this week:Saturday 22nd November PREMIER LEAGUE: Liverpool v Nottingham Forest 1500 KO, live on 5 Live. PREMIER LEAGUE: Fulham v Sunderland 1500 KO, live on 5 Sports Extra. PREMIER LEAGUE: Newcastle United v Manchester City 1730 KO, live on 5 Live.Sunday 23rd November PREMIER LEAGUE: Leeds United v Aston Villa 1400 KO, live on 5 Live. PREMIER LEAGUE: Arsenal v Tottenham 1630 KO, live on 5 Live.

On the Football Daily podcast, the EuroLeaks. Listen on the BBC Sound. Hello, welcome to the Euroleagues on the Football Daily podcast. On today's pod, we'll be reflecting on Gennaro Gattuso's comments about World Cup qualification needing a system change, with Italy going to have to navigate the playoffs to be in the USA, Canada and Mexico, VAPE and PSG, taking each other to court, and we'll be talking returns. Pogba's long-and-weighted one to football, plus Barcelona and Messies returns to camp now. We'll finish the show as well, reflecting on a disastrous week for Denmark.

And we'll be reacting as well to the playoff draw for the World Cup, which is happening as we record this pod right now. And with me, for all of that over the next hour, is Mina Rizuki, Guillem Ballagay and Julianne-Laurence. Hello, everyone. Busy week. How are you all? All right.

It's less busy if you actually spend time in Serbia when it's sunny. and go from terrace to terrace having tapas. It is busy, but a different kind of busy. It's a lovely busy. Loads to get through over the next hour then. But I'd like to say we've got to start with the goal that I've been watching on repeat from Tuesday night. Scott McTominay's bicycle kick for Scotland

in that huge 40 win over Denmark, of course, that win silly in their place at next year's World Cup. The Puskas Award nominees were announced for this year's award last week. So Rice's second free kick against Real Madrid, Laminia Marl's goal against Espaniol, back in May as well. Mottominee's goal is that a contender for next year's award, do you think? Mina, start with you because I know you've got strong thoughts about this. No, I don't have strong. I'm just not even sure it was the best one of the night.

I agree. I agree. Okay. Like, it's an exceptionally beautiful goal, and it's reminiscent of the one that he scored to seal the scudetto. and honestly it's being described in Napoli as, well, he is being described in Napoli as a modern Garibaldi of football because he's the hero of the two worlds. You know, he's the god in Scotland now because of that fabulous goal.

But it's also like for me, like, Penny McLean won. There's just so many goals. It's like, take your pick. There was so that performance from Scotland. I mean, the sensational goals was something exquisite. But I loved watching the last one largely because you can hear the commentator saying, just shoot shoot shoot and he does and i think that that was a spectacular goal um kieran tyranny

especially like at a time when he really wanted that goal really needed that goal for his own confidence so yes it's a spectacular goal but is it even the best of the night jose i i prefer the macklin one i won't lie i like an overhead kick it's no problem but for macklin to do it when he did at that time that lucidity is a 50 yard love it's at that level they do diagonals 50 year, 60. It's easy for them. But to do it at that time like that. And even his face, I think, was showing how even himself was so surprised by the whole thing and the way he celebrated. I think they're both amazing goal. And probably you could do a nominee for the push guys, like together. So let's call it like the, I don't know, the Scott McLean goal if you want. Yeah, exactly. And you,

you mix them all both together. But I would go for the fourth if I had to just pick one. It's all the stuff about when he's trying to pick out his mum in the crowd afterwards for the Scott McTominee celebration that I loved as well. Yeah, exactly. Everything around that goal, the fact that, you know, Scotland picks injuries before the game even starts, the pressure of having to get the result, the fact that I've never been able to do an overhead kick. So probably that gives me the idea that is very, very difficult, especially in a game

like this, you know, gives me the impression that that was the best goal, but also the celebrations. What was he saying? What was he shouting to the crowd? He was actually having a chat with the crowd with a very calm face, which he's not supposed to have. And Steve Clark is just there saying, calm down. Nobody's looking at him. Everybody's looking at McNamé.

And I'm not sure, did anybody find out what he was trying to say? I'm here, or this is how he goes, or are we going to qualify? What is it? I don't know. I mean, he was just basically saying everyone calmed down. But he did look almost like so nonchalant that he'd just done that, didn't he? And then I think that's kind of part of why I loved it so much. It's this newfound confidence that he's got in the sense of, you know,

it's a little bit of the calm down. I'm here. I'm here. I can resolve this issue, right? Like, I'm going to be your hero in Naples. I'm going to be the hero for Scotland. I've got this. I've got this. Yeah, I've got this.

Exactly that. And to do it and then say, where's my mom? Like, it's just, it's like the only part of it that almost brings you back to why we watch football. So much of it, I feel like now has become about capitalism and, you know, so like money saturated and everything. And then national teams, like what we've seen from Ireland, what we've seen from Scotland, to the comments from the players, I think that that kind of it just brings it all back and it makes it even more special.

And it kind of reminds you why you like this game so much is because of those human moments and his journey in particular and his paternal grandparents talking about how they never watch football before. But now, Grandma watches him all the time after that scissor kick and then to repeat that awesome goal and qualify them to the World Cup. It's just awesome. So it has been a euphoric week for Scotland. Not so, though, for Italy, in danger of missing out on a third consecutive men's World Cup.

They missed the last two by losing in the playoffs and they're back in the playoffs again, having finished second in their group behind Norway. And these comments from the Italy head coach, Gennaro Gattuso, saying the system needs to change in Europe in terms of World Cup qualification, really interested to get everybody's thoughts on this, Mina. It's really disappointing some of his comments that he's made in which he said, you know, at my time, there was only two African teams. I think I take issue mostly with that one, then I would say that I can sort of maybe understand where he's coming from when he

talks about South America. But at the end of the day, it's the what aboutism, right? It's constantly not, it's almost like he's saying that Italy has some divine right or that Europe has some divine right to always have so many of those spots for the World Cup when it is a continent that is well represented, despite the fact that, you know, once upon a time they had, what, 32 UAE for nations participating in Italian 90 and now there's 54 for 16 places. So yes, there is more competition. But if you look at the fact that Asia and Africa are the most populated continents, then I would say to that they don't have enough representation within the World Cup. And he doesn't mention that. Well, he doesn't also fail to mention is that in

2006, they were also in a qualifying group. That featured Norway and Moldova amongst others harder because they also had Scotland and Slovenia in their group. And yet they managed to win all their games but won and qualified and then eventually went to win on to win the World Cup. This is the difference now is that you didn't you didn't win those two matches against Norway. You weren't the best

team and not only that you conceded seven goals against Norway. So maybe we should talk more about the decline of Italy and the surgeons of Norway who actually went through a lot to get to where they are to get to the strength that they've managed to build within that team. And it's not just about Erling Harlan schooling 16 goals.

But it's about Solbach and having to really locate criticism that was coming about some of the tactics, whether they were finding the cohesion within that side, whether they were performing to the levels of expectation from this golden generation. And he maintained his bravery in a way that Italy hasn't. And there's a lot to be said about some of the choices that are being made, about the call-ups that Italy are doing, for example, why are they sticking with Di Lorenzo? I mean, we could talk a lot about some of their choices. When you have somebody like Michael Coyote at Brentford, who's doing a really great job. like, why isn't he just getting a call-up? Why are the youth not being believed in borrowing Piozbosito? So I think that Italy would like to focus more on some of the challenges.

And there are some. And by all means, you know, perhaps a lot of us would like to see more of European teams. That's only because we watch European football. So, of course, that's a given. But there is also a lot to be said about how much are they actually tracking their decline and some of the choices that they've made that has resulted in Italy's decline because they have never lost two games in qualifiers since the 1980. 84 European Championship.

Just to touch more on the comments from Gattuso, he pointed out that the best group runners-up used to get automatic qualification, and obviously Italy finished as runners-up in this group. And when he says Europe is unfairly treated compared to other continents, and he did pick out Africa and South America, as mean as saying, with stats from BBC Sport, they've had a look at this, the show that Conquercaf is the only continent with the right ratio of automatic qualification spots to percentage of teams in FIFA's top 50, so Europe are well under that Africa is slightly over and Asia well over. So those are just clarifying the comments that he makes their jewels.

Yeah, completely. And I think it's good to look into it and the UFO and FIFA doing that. If you can make it, if there's a different format there and maybe think, have a thought about it. But if you look at how exciting this last round of fixtures was, certainly in the UFO qualifications for the World Cup, not just the Scotland, Denmark final, but also the Germany, Slovakia, okay, India and Germany smashed them. But that was winner-texie all and goes to the World Cup. We had Wales against North Macedonia.

That's something to play for. We had the Austria-Bosnia game that was really good. That went almost to the wire on again, Bosnia could have overtaken Austria on the last game of the qualifiers. So there's been really exciting games. Yes, some are now exciting and one-sided and big scores. Okay, I get it like Norway, Moldova, 11-0 and France, Gibraltar before 12-0 or whatever it was. I get that. But there's also a bit – it showed that.

It can also go to the wire and be still very exciting for everybody watching. So I'm sure you can look into it and maybe there's a way of making it even more interesting. But I thought this time was quite exciting. I'd say, first of all, that I wish the World Cup had 100 teams. There are 211 nations of territories, 211 nations on territories at FIFA. I will love 100 them. Because if you've seen the pictures of Scotland qualifying, and I know that we're top of the group, but still,

still celebrated like nothing else. The picture is going from Kaibirde or Kourazau, or Haiti, or Quebecistan or Jordan. It tells you that it's not about who wins it. It's not even about how close a competition is. It's about what football gives to millions. So I would like it to be a hundred competing. But, okay, that's perhaps a different argument.

In any case, if you quickly, if I check what Gattuso said, and you touch on it a little bit. He said that in his days, the best runners have, went straight to the World Cup. That didn't happen. Denmark, finished second in the group, didn't qualify. That was in 1990.

He said that in 1990 and 94, there were two African teams. Actually, there were three. But generally, the impression that he gives is that it's fairly easy for an African team to qualify. But actually, six of the nine African qualifiers are in the world's top 50.

And they are established nations. They're not lightweights. That's the first thing. And then in South Africa. South America. South America. So six out of ten go directly to the World Cup and the seventh goes into a playoff with Oshenia, which is not true.

But in any case, again, it's a tough, tough group. They have to play 18 matches. They have to travel a lot. They have top 20 opponents everywhere. Eight of the 10 teams are inside FIFA's top 50. So it is not easy to qualify. And all goes back to the same thing. How often we see the World Cup and football generally

with an Eurocentric view. And I think Atuso is looking for excuses for sure, but honestly feels that Europe are hard on by. And as you just heard, I completely disagree with that. Listen, I do want to say just pull up some a few things like. So if what, if we look at 94, there was like 50% representation of Europe. And so the comments about Africa, I think, a particular like he does make it. But I do think he has somewhat of a point when it comes to South America. And you just said, you know, in the top 50 or not top 50, but you want 100 teams in the World Cup.

So this is where we have to define what the World Cup is. Is it a festival of football? Is it a celebration of football where everyone's allowed to be included as long as they win their groups? Or is it about whoever's the best? Because if they're a best, then it doesn't matter if they're ranked in the top 50 or not. It shouldn't matter wherever it is. But I do have somewhat of an issue of the fact that it's like you mentioned, I agree with your point when it comes to South America that they are a difficult journey

is there are several matches, right? But when 60 to 70% of the continent is qualifying, then I do think there is a match. massive mismatch over here. When you look at the fact and you compare that to what 19% of Asia and 16% of Africa is qualifying, a lot of those countries are underrepresented and some of them are very good and I would like to see them actually. But that is probably harder, harder for them to qualify when you've got so many in Bolivia has, Bolivia is actually the one that qualified in 7th. And so they probably have a chance to knock out the park and qualify anyway because of the fact that they've got that a tremendous home advantage in La Paz. So I do think that when it comes to

some things, there does need to be some reform. But I also feel like if we are, we have to define what the World Cup is because it doesn't matter if you are top 50 or not. Is it a celebration of football that everyone's allowed to be there? And as long as you win your groups and win your matches, or is it about let's watch the very best at the top? And if it's the very best, then it does need total reform. What would that reform look like?

Do we think, Jules, that maybe it could be kind of a league system like we're seeing, say, in the Champions League now? Yeah, I think they looked at that, although they seem to be, from what I was being told last week, that they've moved away from that. So, thinking about something maybe a little bit different. I mean, it's a great, I think it's a great debate to have on, you know, who should qualify. I mean, 100 teams, definitely. But, yeah, my 100 teams, so at least Italy can qualify. And that makes me now.

We don't know. You know, even now, we're not sure. Even that we're not sure. But, yeah, I'm always happy for rethink and let's look into it. I was very happy where the European side of the qualifiers finished because I thought

okay for once there's a bit of jeopardy there's a lot of things can happen there's game that even if it's not your country playing you want to watch

because you just don't know what's going to happen and the Scotland one was obviously very special and it might not happen every four years or even every two years if you count the

Euros qualifiers or you know Nations League or whatever but I think that was good so I would not change too much but there's probably yeah there's probably a discussion to have

with all the members and all the different confederations on if we could do if we could make this better. Let's move on and talk about another big, big story, big headline from the last week involving Killian Mbapé. The French Football Federation announced that after their four-neal win over Ukraine, Mbapé wouldn't travel to Azerbaijan for their final group match, which was a dead rubber. They had already qualified due to an ongoing ankle injury for him. They said he'd returned to Real Madrid's club for scans, but then he wasn't there, Jules. No, he never went back to Madrid, never had scans.

He went to Dubai and played paddles. So the French, a lot of French people took offense. I think it's a storming a teacup, is that what you say in English? Yes. Because it was a statement from the French affair, which I'm not sure we needed a statement in the first place. If a player leaves the squad, I know it's Killian, so with Killian, it takes a lot of proportions. But you don't need a statement if each player, they didn't do one for Camavinga, they didn't do one for Connie who was suspended. I'm not sure he needed a statement in the first place.

But it's true that they said he's going to go back to Madrid and we'll have scans on his ankle, which is a injured ankle, swollen ankle. And then next thing you know, he's in Dubai and, you know, with some of his friends. It's just, I don't know, it was just, I think, a bit of miscommunication that could have been managed very differently

by the French FA. The Ramadri players were off anyway. There was no training. So Killian and the other Remedry players who were not with the national team could do anything they wanted. So on that level, I mean, he didn't do anything wrong anywhere in the first place.

It's just that I think the French Federation find itself in a bit of a pickle because they made all those announcements. And in the end, we saw that it was in Dubai and not in Madrid and not having scans on. The ankle that apparently prevented him from playing that as a Beijing game. And he's involved in this court case in Bappe with his former club PSG. He's seeking 231.5 million pounds from PSG, including nearly 50 million in unpaid wages, as damages in response to a contract dispute and a large. perceived ill treatment by the club. And then PSG are suing him back.

This is a really, well, it feels like a bizarre situation. They're suing him for the failed 300 million euro transfer to Al-Halal in in 2023 prior then, obviously, before we joined Real Madrid on a free. It just feels like the most bizarre situation. Can you even sue a player for a failed transfer? I don't know. It's very strange. I mean, it's both simple and complicated at the same time.

But I'm going to make it quick, I promise you. They apparently had an agreement, verbal agreement, that he would not leave on free, despite his contract finishing when he decided to go to Ram Madrid. So I literally as a free agent. And the only way that could have happened was for him to waive away some of the bonuses that PhD owed him at the end of his contract or by maybe not being paid the last few months, which nobody would ever done. So they stopped paying him. They didn't pay him the bonuses that they owed him because they said,

you said yes, you said we had an agreement that you would not live on a free, but if we pay you everything, then you're going to live on a free to Ramadradorna, and this is not what we agreed. He didn't say, listen, we didn't agree anything like that. You need to pay me where you owe me, my wages, which is normal, the bonuses that were in my contract, which on the other hand is normal as well. So this is, I would think, I mean, to be fair, I thought they would settle for that a long time ago,

but then not, and now it's quite messy. I do think that we still settle and that they will pay him some of the thing that they owe them, not the whole amount that he's suing for, and they're certainly not going to get anything back from him. But it's just something that could have easily been avoided. So is this not a gentleman's agreement? Is that what they're referring to, PSJ? Yeah, like a verbal.

Yeah, apparently they were in the same room and they shook hand and said, okay, I promise I won't live on a free. But how can a club like PSG think that that's going to be, that's going to suffice instead of actually having a written contract in which everything is perfectly noted? And this is what I find so incredible. And then this whole thing about the failed transfer to El Hill, like how do they think that they can force a play,

to move when he doesn't want to move, and then afterwards suggest that they can sue him, considering even in FIFA's rulebook, it says, you know, a new club shall upload the players written consent to the transfer. So how is it that they can sue him for that? Effectively, this is a legal war over half a billion euros, and there is no precedent like it. But you take that away, and we've seen this so many times. Claims of unpaid wages, Yep, it happens. Club pressure on players to renew contracts. No problem.

That has happened before. Players being sidelined it as MAPA was or excluded from tours. Yes. Clubs accusing players of this loyalty. Yeah, it happened. Disputers over label courts, you know, all these things have happened. Takes me back perhaps at Naima, would name a Surve, or Naima, Surve, for unpaid loyalty bonuses after joining PSG.

And bars, I can't assure for bridge of contract. It's just the quantity of money that... that we hear here, which is just ridiculous. So, Jules, how much of that would end up in somebody's pocket, if anything? I don't know. It's a great question, Guillem. I think at some point, surely, even for PSG, for both of them, it's not really a great look. You know, your lawyers are going to the tribunal, everybody is there.

You report everything. Those amounts are obscene amounts of money, right? Whether you feel that is what is owned to you, fair enough. But so much money, I think they would settle at some point. and PSG will just pay either all the wages they owe him because wages should have been paid. Bonuses might be a bit different if they feel like he said, okay, don't pay me the bonus at the end

and I can, that would feel like a transfer fee in a way for PhD if you don't give me that kind of money. But the wages, I think it's April, May and June they didn't pay him. You can't have somebody who works for you under contract and don't give him the salary that you've agreed to give him in the first place. There is like a level of naivety, isn't it, like Mina's saying here and the kind of the whole way that PSG acted or how this whole situation played out, Jules, as well, which feels really bizarre because we're talking about obviously, well, one of the best clubs in the world.

And it just feels quite amateur in a sense that it's kind of ultimately ended up like this. Yeah, you're right. I think the whole Killian saga, I know when his departure, or when he stayed the first time round and when he eventually left to go to Real Madrid was such an incredible roller coaster of, Just emotions and twist and turns and changes and they did, I think even when they have that kind of verbal agreement when they say, okay, you're not going to live for free and he goes, yeah, okay, no problem.

After that, they are convinced, they can still convince him to stay a bit longer and not go to Real Madrid the summer before last when he eventually did. So there was a lot of that in the background as well. It's quite an incredible saga when you think about it because as we've always said on the show, he stayed too long in Paris.

He was bigger than the club. he should have gone to Ram Madrid before that and I think in a way he was kind of staying that long he didn't have to really he stayed and in the end this is what is happening now on the back of him staying for all the seven years which was easily two years too long so I don't know but you're right it's not it's not a good look at all

well you say incredible saga this one involving Kira Hamrawey obviously former PSG player again she's suing the club filed a three million pound claim against them. Jules, I'll let you explain this more because it is the most bizarre story. But I think we all remember hearing about it when she was dragged from a car by two masked men who beat her legs with an iron bar. The car was being driven by a teammate who was also vying for the same starting position as her in the PSG team. Yeah, exactly. I mean, this is one of the most

bonkers stories that we've ever covered that we've ever seen in French football history. There's a great podcast if you want to listen on BBC Sounds about the whole, I don't even know how to call it, incident, story, a scandal, you know, whatever. But it's true that she felt like the club let her down after this when she was just a victim, really. That's all, you know, the poor girl, she was. She was a French international playing for one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

And after that, nothing was ever the same, really. So it's just an incredible thing. And I think for the all numbers of the Kiliang suing the club and the club suing back Kiliang for those $200, whatever million, for her to ask for that money in what she was really aggrieved by everything that happened after that incredible incident

when she thought she was going to die she thought they were going to kill her not just broke her leg but literally killing her I think this is the list that she could ask for really because she's been traumatised and forever by the whole thing

yeah it's sports, strangest crimes the podcast series as Jewel says it's a really really it's an amazing listen and it is an incredible story like we say me and you know I've just never heard heard anything like it happening in the game before.

Yeah, but like how scary is it for if you want to be as a woman or if you have a son or a daughter to think that this thing could ever happen to you where somebody who's vying for your spot on the team just thinks the best way to do this is through violence. But the other player that is affected in the case was a PSG player, no? So when it becomes a legal case, it's so often that clubs just clean the hands. It's like, sorry, whenever we get the store. story from the court, from the civil court, then we can intervene.

So that complicates matters, even though football very often would like to have their own laws and their own regulations, also very often they just pass it on, pass responsibility to the ones with authority really before taking decisions. I'm sure there's something I'm going to be talking about lots on Euroleagues over the coming weeks and months. Let's talk about another story in France. Paul Pogba, 32 years old now, could be making his return to full. football this Saturday. For Monaco, he obviously had this four-year

doping ban in February 2024. That's when he was given it, later reduced on appeal to 18 months. He hasn't played again since September 2023, Jules. Yeah, it's a long time, isn't it? And he would be in the squad for the game away at Wren on on Saturday. He should come on towards the end. They're going to build up his minutes, obviously, because he's been out for so long. He's gone through like a whole fitness rehabilitation process where they looked at everything. all the kind of medical data they could find

to then not just so much getting him back on the beach, but also once he started playing and playing more and more and more so that he doesn't get injured again because even before the band, they've been a lot of injuries for him when he went back to Juventus, even before that his last few months are united. So that's where they focused on.

And then finally, it looks like Saturday could be the day. And trust me, he's so looking forward to it, almost like if it was a child that just signed his first professional contract. it's an incredible two years that could come to an end if he really plays and if it's not on Saturday it would be in midweek in the Champions League anyway

but where not just the ban for the doping of course that as you said mass was reduced and he still claims that he was just a mistake he didn't know anything about it really to obviously maybe the bigger the bigger thing here is that feud with his brothers or one of his twin brothers

and the childhood friend that he had who tried to rob money for him and extort money for him, 13 million euros, who put a gun on his heads, where a night again to go back to the Amahoui story, a night where he thought he was going to die. So for him to, after all of this, to come back and finally be able to be a footballer again,

it's something incredible. And he cried when he signed his contract at Monaco back in July. I know he's going to cry on Saturday night if he comes on. Now, this is a player that hasn't played for that long, who's got a new manager in Sebastian Poconolli, in a team that should be higher in the table with the pressure that is put in himself for him to succeed. And the question really is,

is he prepared for it to fail? Because football has become even more physical in the last couple of years to actually jump into that level of high tempo when he was already a different type of player wasn't just physical, but obviously it was intelligent the way he used the ball, it wasn't so much about the dynamism.

I just wonder if he's prepared for it to go wrong. And that is something that he can only answer himself. But as he got the support network for things not to work. Yeah, I mean, I think everybody's trying to stay positive at the club from the top to the bottom, really, from Poconoli, nobody expects him to be the Messiah and just saw all the problems that Monaco have had so far this season. And he hasn't been a bad style of this season,

but you're right, they should have done better than what they've done. So he's not weighted, like he's the guy that is going to save us and solve everything. The only real expectation is that somebody has on him is him, and that's it. And in his wildest dreams, he wants to go to the World Cup. He wants to be back to the real Paul Pogba in a month or so. He wants to play in the Champions League. He wants to be great again.

He wants to do all of this. He wants his three boys to watch him play at this level again, really. And as much as you can say to him, don't get to carry the way. Don't get too optimistic. He will naturally have that in him because he's like, kind of guy anyway. So I think the best is to, instead of trying to prepare for the worst, is actually

to prepare for, hey, this is going to work out. Yes, you're going to play little by little and your menace are going to climb, but you're going to be good again. And I think this is because he has to be positive. Things have been so negative and so toxic for so long that all it is right now is positivity around him. Yeah, fingers crossed

for him this weekend. Definitely. I'm Maisie Adam. And I'm Susie Ruffel. And we host the women's football podcast, Big Kick Energy. Each week we bring you the latest from the WSL and beyond. Whether you're a lifelong fan like me, or a newer fan like me, and have recently got swept up in the lioness's

excitement. We've got everything you need to know about the women's game. And chants. We've got chants. Oh yes, we love a chant. And finding ways to shoehorn in some truly obscure pop culture references. It's actually quite a silly podcast. Yeah, listen now on BBC Sounds. Yeah, you should. Okay, cool. On the Football Daily podcast,

The Euroleaves. BBC Sound. Let's talk about another return. Barcelona, finally, finally, making their return to come now. After over two years away, so the last competitive match there for them, the 28th of May, 2023. About a year late, Guillem, but finally they're back. Yes, following that open training session in the 7th of November, where 23,000 people, I was there and there was a feeling of all of this place that still looks, well, still been built doesn't look spectacular but of course it's as you say the return home one year later than planned with the work that is still missing still behind in the schedule but 909 days after the last game in May 23 they are back they will have against a letty club 45,401 expectators

but in certain parts of the of the stadium not all of it and it is very much a symbolic return. Barcelona wanted to do, to come back as soon as possible, to please some of the sponsors that were getting a little bit nervous. But in any case, symbolic as in, if you look at what Barcelona was like

in that May, 23, with Chavi Hernandez in charge, with Bousquet and Alba saying goodbye to the club, with Gabi in the team, An Sufati as well, with Dembele, and now it's a completely different project

and the Hansi Flick. What makes is interesting as well, is to look at those that will make the debut in the Camnough, because Rashford and Chesney and John Garcia and all those. But Pao Cubarcy, Gerard, Martin, Fermil Lopet, Mark Asado, and Danielmo have not played at the Camno. And La Miniamale has only done it for seven minutes. So it is for Barcelona, even though they put a video at the beginning of the season, say, we're back, and then it just didn't happen.

And it's not a full comeback, which may take place with 60,000 in January, and eventually 105,000 further than the line, it is a way of saying, okay, we're back and then we're going to rebuild from here. They've got to finish very quickly the home changing room because on the training session in the 7th of November, the team got changed in their way, changing room. So still got to rush certain things before the game.

But yes, they are back. Plus, also they will play the Champions League against Enter Frankfurt because UEFA have done, got a rule by, which you cannot change the location of what you play in the middle of the league, unless you're Barcelona. Sorry, no. It doesn't say that. You can actually, yeah, you know, exceptional circumstances.

Barcelona have got exceptional circumstances that will play against Ait of Frankfurt at home. The other thing that was great this week is Lionel Messi coming back to camp now in the dead of night during the international break. But did the club know about this? How did all that come about? That's a great story. Should we started at the end when he puts on his socials pictures of him inside the pitch. You see that he's back and in front of him the stadium, the have rebuilt the stadium.

And on his socials, he wrote, last night, I returned to a place my soul longs for, a place where I was immensely happy, where you all made me feel a thousand times like the happiest person in the world. I hope that someday I can return, not just to say goodbye as a player, in the way that I never got to do. Now, you would say, all right, his plan is all along, hasn't he? But no. So he finds out that Argentina are going to play train in Alicante.

And the Federation is, of course, in Miami, and the Federation says, which way you want to go? You want to go straight to Alicante, or you want to go to Barcelona, you want to go to Madrid. There's different ways. Oh, can I stop in Barcelona? Yes, you can. So he goes to Barcelona with Rodrigo de Paul, his teammate at Inter Miami,

and Pepe Costa, who's always... with him, his personal assistant. So they go for dinner. This is my presumption, but Argentinian wine, being drunk, just people relaxed in dinner. And then he goes, because they put him at a hotel next to the Camno, and he goes, should we go to the Camno? And the post says, yes, let's go. So they stand up from the restaurant, leave pay, of course.

Start walking. There's this couple who are taking a selfie in front of the Camnos. Oh, my God. And they take a selfie with him, with Leo Messi, who goes to the security. guy there and says, hi, and the security guy says, I know who you are. Well, can I come in? You know, my job, whatever. I say, I want to come in. And the poll is like, come on, let's go in. So they go in the three of them, and he's Pepe Costa taking the pictures. Of course, the next day, Bartharana were like, well, yes, he asked permission. Yeah, okay, no, he didn't. But it's a political

stand as well, isn't it? That Leo Messi walks in the middle of the night, this was in the evening, of course, to a stadium that has to have the lights on. That's why they didn't put the lights on for him. The lights have to be on because there's still part of the conditions still being rebuilt. Then he puts a statement out there

and he doesn't wait for La Porta who keeps talking the chairman of Arthorona keeps talking about a homage game with Messi. Of course La Porta and Messi don't get on from the moment La Porta promised he would stay and he's actually gone. For me, it's a political stand as well saying, I don't need anybody's permission

to come here. This is my home. It is my home and will still be my home in the future, no matter who's in charge. And it was funny, wasn't it? Just to sort of then see, like, you know, it's explained it really well there. La Porta then almost trying to like take control of the narrative afterwards when obviously it didn't really have, well, this sounds for it very much to do me at all. No, and I say it's not just a tribute game or, you know, sort of testimonial, it could be a statue outside the ground. Let's not forget that there's elections coming up soon. like Guillem, you know, for the presidency at the club, and then maybe Joanna Porter, who we know is a lawyer,

so he's good at talking. Just like, hey. Not just that, Jules. There was an interview before Messi comes into the pitch of La Porta the day before. Well, he doesn't mention anything about statues. And then he comes in, and then the next day he thinks, oh, you know, I've got an idea. Yes, I'm good like that.

At the top of the show, we mentioned Scotland's remarkable 4-2 win against Denmark at Hamden Park on Tuesday night. Let's discuss it from the Danish perspective. because they've gone obviously from having one foot on the plane to the USA, Canada and Mexico next year to now having to play in the playoffs, get through the semi-finals and the finals if they're going to be there next summer.

Denmark will play North Macedonia in the semi-finals and then they're in the same bracket as the Republic of Ireland. So we'll touch on the rest of the draw shortly. But first, let's bring in Danish football journalist, Toika Tiele. Hi, Tauika. Hey, thanks for having me on. Thanks for being with us. So North Macedonia in the playoff semi-finals,

your thoughts on that? I don't think it could have been any better. That was the dream draw for us. So that was very good. I mean, nice with a small reason of positivity after this past week. It hasn't been the most fun to follow Danish football. Of course, everybody wanted to avoid Sweden, even though it could have been a fun neighbor of Derby there.

But, yeah, northern Macedonia is definitely the best draw. And then Ireland or Czech Republic, unfortunately, away in the, yeah, I don't know if we called it the final, but the last match if we advance. So good first match and then I think arguably the hardest of the ones in the second one. As you say, it brings an end, a positive end to what's been, I imagine, a pretty difficult couple of days covering Danish football. I mean, one of the headlines on Wednesday warning and one of the newspapers in the country total Danish humiliation. How do you sum up then? Because yes, Tuesday was obviously big, but Saturday, I think, feels like the real surprising stumbling bolt for Denmark.

in this qualifying campaign. Yes, that is pretty spot on, actually. They did draw at home to Belarus. It was perhaps the worst result, I think, but Denmark in the last 20-something years, the fact that we could have qualified with a victory, knowing what happened in Greece, of course, only made it even worse.

But, yeah, that was such a huge, huge disappointment. And really the first time in a long time that people were very, very unhappy with the team. there were very loud booze and whistles at the end of the match. And that's not something that the national team is used to. There's been a lot of support in the last 10 years, really. And especially at home, this was surprising. But it was just such an uninspiring performance.

And then, yeah, I think, I think even despite everything that happens Saturday, people still expect Denmark to pull through and at least get that draw against Scotland. Because with all due respect of the Scottish team, I think there still should have been a big difference and in the level between the two teams. And then the way they completely collapsed at Hampton Park was, yeah, just another big blow or unnecessary personal mistakes made from players that was, yeah, surprising, to say the least.

As a football fan, as an Italian football fan, good luck with North Macedonia. It didn't go that well with us. But how much did, so there was a sickness bug that was going around. How much did that affect their performances and their ability to actually go into that match and feel confident of it, like you said, in Hamden Park, which is a very tough atmosphere to go and play in.

But there was it, like, Hoyland was affected by that, and it was something that was spoken about, where they just presumed that everything was going to be fine and they were going to go just power through it? That's a good question. I guess we will be told that over the next couple of weeks. I mean, what we heard was that all the players were good to go when we came to the match against Scotland.

Of course, yeah, Hoyland especially was doubtful and sat out of the first match. But I think really what hurt us the most going into the Belabrous match was that I think there was a little bit, maybe they took things for granted. For example, a Virold, who has played a fantastic season for Porto, who has been one of the best players for the national team lately, he set out because he would have been suspended if he had picked up a yellow card. So I think we in Rima and the coaches were already thinking of the Scotland match

before we played the Belarus match. And I would also say that, of course, with the chances Denmark created, I think they are winning that game eight or nine times out of ten, but it's just this time they didn't. But I think they were already thinking too much ahead of the Scotland match and forgot that they had to beat Belarus first and then they made all of these stupid errors and the resting players. I mean, Erickson played and he's just nowhere near the level he used to be, especially because he's lacking playing time recently as well for Wolfsburg.

And I think that was a big mistake. I think they should have gone out and just secured that victory against Belarus. And then they could start thinking about Scotland instead of already talking about Scotland way before the first matches played that it was I think arrogance is unfortunately the main the main thing to blame here yeah it's unlucky with the injury bug but cannot put all the blame on that because we still we did still feel a strong team and we were in the strongest team against scotland as well so I think it would just be looking for somebody to blame and and not taking the responsibility that that needs to be taken and the criticism has been really really

hard on Wren Rima as well this past week and also on the Football Association because they of course extended his contract back in October and I think everybody at that time with Denmark were leading group sort of expected yet Denmark are going to win the group here qualify for the World Cup and there might be some clubs who come and pick up our coach after the World Cup so now of course the Football Association is looking quite stupid as well and that has been a big discussion point as well like why did they go out them extend the coach who hadn't really done anything prior to becoming national team coach. And now it might be, if we don't qualify, it would be way more expensive to fire him.

And yeah, they have tied him to a longer contract when it was really unnecessary. So that's a lot of stories and there's been a lot of criticism going around. But of course, Bryn Rima and the sporting responsible people at this association have really gotten most of it. The players have, they have more or less been okay. I mean, it is mostly the coach that has been criticized heavily. Funny question on a serious one. The funny question is, wouldn't you prefer a World Cup with a hundred teams? And you wouldn't have to go through this.

But the serious one is what you mentioned about the consequences in the Federation and from the players and the media, the people as well. What would it be like if Denmark don't qualify for a World Cup? I think we have been very spoiled recently. I mean, historically Denmark, we cannot expect to be at every – every single tournament. So the fact that we have qualified for multiple consecutive tournaments in recent years is that is something special and something that we need to appreciate as well.

It hasn't been, I mean, golden era is big with our history. But at least in my time, this has been by far the best the national team has ever been. I was only a year and a half when we won the hero in 92. So I don't have any memories of that. The fact that people have been spoiled by all the success lately also has elevated the expectations a lot and people are not just, they're not satisfied, we're just qualified. We also have to qualify in a way where we play positive and entertaining football and we have to go to a tournament and actually perform well there. That's also why people were so disappointed after the Euro

because, yeah, we did advance from the group, but we didn't play well. It wasn't exciting. It felt slow and forced all the time. And the expectations are really high. And even if we go through here against Macedonia and wherever we meet of Ireland, and Czech Republic, it will not be enough to satisfy people. Like the disaster has happened and now it's about damage control and they really won't get a chance to write this wrong before the World Cup and we need to play well there and win some matches. Then we can start talking again about the positive view.

But right now people are very sceptical and critical of the national team. Toika, thanks for being with us and we wish you all the best for the playoffs. Thank you. That's Denmark journalist Toyko Tili. with us. Let's just finish Euroleagues then by touching on some of the other key matchups which have just come out of that World Cup

playoff draw. Mina, Italy against Northern Ireland in the semi-final and then the winner of that plays the winner of Wales against Bosner and Herzegovina. What do you think? I didn't get any worse. Edin Jekyll will knock you out. Edin Jekyll will knock you out.

I know. This is This is, you know, this is if we're assuming that they beat Wales. But, yeah, I mean, listen, we're okay with Italy and not going to another World Cup. It doesn't matter that there's just generations of Italians now that I've never seen their team today in the World Cup. But honestly, when you, when, does that way you view it then with that Northern Ireland in the semi-finals and then either Wales or Bosnia and Herzegovina in the final, but you put Italy way down in either of those matchups? Well, here's the thing, right? they don't really have many, many opportunities to meet up and actually train. And so this is the problem that they're like.

They've been talking about trying to create a space and create a few days in which they can have a training camp in which Gattuzo can talk with his players and try to figure this out. But you look at this team, you look at some of the, it's a team that actually won a lot of their games barring Norway. So it's, you know, they do, they have had a better mentality under him. But is he the right guy for Italy? I'm not entirely sure.

We're obviously going to see because tactically they're not where they need to be. although you can there's a lot to say right you can say the first half against Norway was very good from them you know what is the level of this Italy side I don't actually know I don't think anyone knows at the moment because there's just been so many changes within the side you know from spiletti to to now Gattuzzo to teams that they're playing not really sure how to gauge how good Italy or how poor they are but my worry is that when they face combative sides do they have enough at the moment and that's one thing that I would say to you that worries me a little bit.

I think that this Italy can score goals is just an Italy side that can no longer keep clean sheets and to concede seven goals and two matches against Norway is really worrying for me and I look at how fragile this team is sometimes at the back

and yeah, I don't know but I mean I say it's 50-50 I'd say it's 50-50. I don't want to be pessimistic but I'm not optimistic either. I mean, it's an incredibly tough draw for Northern Ireland. The stats, Italy's favour.

Yeah, and Wales. So Northern Ireland and Italy have played 11 times previously and Northern Ireland have beaten Italy just once and that was in 1958. So it's a really tough draw for Northern Ireland. A really tough draw for Wales as well. Just worth saying Republic of Ireland

have got Chechnya in their semi-final and the winners of that play the winners of Denmark against North Macedonia, as Toika was saying. I mean, Jules, there's some big old matches in these playoffs. Like you're saying, the qualifying itself was really dramatic and these playoffs are going to be dramatic as well. Yeah, it would be. It would be a lot of fun if you're neutral and not,

one of the fans of those teams because Graham Potter, good luck to him. Of course. He's dead for that. He will have Ukraine away. I mean, we know it's not aware in Ukraine, but he's still an away game. And then either Poland or Albania,

who are in the other side, you know, in the other semi-final, really for the path B. So good luck to Graham Potter, Turkey, Romania. Could be really good. It's a good Turkish generation and Italian manager. So you see, Minas,

maybe some Italians will actually make it to the World Cup. Maybe not the whole national team, but maybe some Italians will. And you can always come and visit We'll be there, I'll be there, I'm sure Mars, we'll be there. You know, come and visit us if you want a few days off. This is just horrible. This is so Shadden, Freud.

If you don't qualify, don't ever come back on the EuroLeaks all this season. Because we will not lay you off. No, you are really not. And the thing is, I really don't think we will qualify. We need Italy in the World Cup, but that's not even the top dress. You also shine in Ukraine, Sweden and Poland. Yeah, that's amazing. That was really hard.

That was so hard that one, isn't it? Tough is wrong. Rone's up. And talking about Italy not being able to define tactically what they like, I tell you all, perhaps not so much Sweden, but Ukraine, Polonia and Albania, they know exactly what they're playing at. You may and may not like it and they all have players that make a difference. It's going to be really, really tough to have just only one of those four.

That's all we've got time for, I think, today on this episode of the Eurolease, on the Football Daily. Mina, Guillaume Jules. Thank you, Jules and Joy, PSG, tonight. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Hopefully they'll definitely win. Yeah. You have to win. You haven't won. Yeah. Exactly. Thank you very much, guys. And thanks very much for listening.

Five live sports. Goats for the end zone. Touchdown. N.F. Touchtown. Philadelphia. Great play design. I think you just have to go out there and be the best of you can be.

We're going to go out there and lay it all in the line. A 12-yard touchdown run. One. 100. Where speed, power and skill collide. And the Eagles are beating the chiefs convincingly in Super Bowl 59. Five lives for NFL. Listen on BBC Sounds.