Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Real Madrid ready for change and the life of a technical director

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

After Real Madrid's tame Champions League exit the Euro Leagues crew ask whether signing Trent Alexander-Arnold is really the priority to improve such an imbalanced squad needing greater defensive stability. What else needs addressing and who is/isn't in the frame to succeed Carlo Ancelotti.Also on the agenda for Guillem Balague, Mina Rzouki and Julien Laurens; Inter and Barcelona meeting in the UCL semis for the first time since 2010 when Jose's Inter went through at Camp Nou depite not having a shot in the second leg against Pep's Barca. What are we expecting this time around?There's a special guest on this week's pod in former Bayern technical director Marco Neppe who discusses his favourite signings from his time in Munich, how elite clubs operate, breaking the German transfer record for Harry Kane, and the recent discourse that elite level football has become boring.TIMECODES 05:07 – Real Madrid elimination 15:48 – Inter set up Barcelona semi and memories of Mourinho v Pep in 2010 22:59 - Marco Neppe on Bayern’s exit and his career as the club’s Technical Director, his favourite signings, the record deal for Harry Kane, and recent discourse that elite level football has become boring. 40:14 – PSG v ArsenalBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this weekend: Sat 1200 *5 Sports Extra* WSL West Ham v Manchester United Sat 1230 Women's Champions League Arsenal v Lyon Sat 1500 Premier League Everton v Manchester City Sat 1730 Premier League Aston Villa v Newcastle Sun 1400 Premier League Arsenal v Lyon Sun 1400 *5 Sports Extra* Premier League Manchester United v Wolves Sun 1400 *BBC Sport app & website* Premier League Fulham v Chelsea Sun 1630 Premier League Leicester v Liverpool

BBC Sounds music radio podcast. This is Five Live Sports. The Euroleagues with John Bennett. Listen on BBC Sounds. Welcome to Euroleagues. Joining us today, still recovering from PSG, nearly throwing away a four goal lead at Villa Park. It's Julian Lerons still recovering from watching

Bayern Munich throw everything at Inter in injury time on Wednesday night, Mina Rizuki, and probably recovering from all his travels over the last few days. What was it? Villa Park to Madrid and back. He's in London now, Guillem Balaguey. So Guillem, best atmosphere of the week,

Villa Park or the Bonne Bayeux. Our producer of Euroleagues today is a Villa fan, so be careful how you answer this. Let me just say, you better be entertaining, because otherwise I'll fall asleep. I haven't slept for the last two days. Literally. Literally. I fall asleep every plane I got and that's it. I fall asleep whenever I can, so be entertaining. No pressure. Villa Park was great, it really was and I think I did the best thing you can do in a day like this, start very early, go to the pub, I parked my car and when I parked the car, a family, a Bangladeshi family said, oh come in we've got food, so I had the food with them and it's like you know anytime you want to leave the car here, anytime you need food, door is open for anyone that passes by and then you go to the Witton Arms, which is the

pub next to the stadium and everybody's ready, well-oiled for what's coming next and the atmosphere was superb. But it was superb, not just because of the Aston Villa fans feeling that it was a special day. Oh my God, the PSG fans. Yeah, they were incredible, weren't they? They did not stop. They were like jumping. And then one brave man took his clothes off, well, left his trousers on,

and then everybody had started doing the same and there was a quarter of the set of fans and they were all without top on. Oh God, it was really cold. But and it's not often again that you hear the Europa League theme tune because you're more of a Champions League man, but you got to hear the Europa League theme tune that night. Jules, we'll talk Paris Saint-Germain a bit more detail a bit later on. But when Villa scored to make it 5-4, an aggregate, your emotions?

I could not watch it, really, because I think they've been cruising in that first half of that second leg, looking control and then because it's a young team, because they're still growing, they're still learning, they're not perfect by far, then they had that kind of dip really where I think they took it easy a bit, they took the eye off the ball and we've seen them doing a little bit in the league but in the league it's fine because they are so much better than everybody else that you won't lose that game. In the Champions League you don't have much margin really and as we saw they almost got punished by an amazing Villa team in the second half really that I must say that Guilhem described so well so it's a great learning curve I think and I think they're going to be better for that defeat and

in a way I know it was stressful but I'm kind of glad they went through that a bit like Barcelona at Dortmund too because you also need to learn how to suffer to get to good results and semi-finals finals etc. We should have had a heart monitor though on you just to get the Gylian Aran's heart rate to see how you were. Amina will get on to Inter as well but it's great to see an Italian team in the semis again we didn't have any do we last year I think it was two the year before that's great to see an Italian team in the semis again. We didn't have any, did we, last year? I think it was two the year before that, so great to see Inter there. And everyone's backing them. Some breaking news, by the way.

Five Life Sports' Ian Dennis from the Commentators' View podcast is saying Inter will win the Champions League. You heard it here first. I don't mean, not even Opita agrees with him. According to Opita, Arsenal, no, no, no, no, I lie. Barcelona are the favorites and then it's Arsenal. Three of those who finished in the top four of the league phase, right, so are where they need to be.

And I think... I don't know if this is their year, right? They played 49 games all of last season and they're already on their 49th. So they're gonna play their 50th over the weekend. It's a bit exhausting but fully deserved, their semi-final in four years. And I'm just going to say that according to TNT, who talked about the atmospheres, it was San Siro that was the best. It did sound amazing. So we've got Jules here, we've got Mina here, Guilhem's here as well,

but we will have a special guest later on. Guilhem, you've got a great bit of recruitment for us today. You've pulled in a special guest, just tell us who we've got coming up later. Marco Nepe, who the name may not sound very familiar to many, but he's a German former player best known for his work behind the scenes at Bayern Munich. So he went through the ranks at the club in a scouting and technical capacity, including becoming head of scouting and technical director in 2021. And he left last year after a decade at the club. He's the guy that identify or support the recruitment of players like Kimmich,

Alfonso Davies, Musiala, Upamecano and helped build a team that won the six titles and the Hansi Flick. So he's a key part of a successful story of one of the biggest clubs in the world. And he'll be talking to us later. Yeah looking forward to that but let's get into the Champions League the fallout from another fantastic week of Champions League action so Real Madrid failing to reach the semis for just the third time in 12 seasons and if we're honest Arsenal much the better team across the two legs and Julien I saw

your match of the day, you were saying that Real Madrid's second leg performance was embarrassing, even worse than the first leg. Do you stand by that? Yeah, yeah, I think so. And it's taking nothing away from how good Arsenal were and they were much better over the two legs. It's just I think when you're Real Madrid, when you've got some of the best players in the world and yes, this is not a squad

that was assembled in the right way. This is a squad that has issues. This is a team that has issues, but still to lose 5-1 on aggregate, to be, it's not even second best. That second leg last night on Wednesday night was just, there was nothing from Real Madrid, no plan, no tactics. They just crossed the board in the box all the time for nobody, really for Saliba and Kivio to head it out.

It was just, I found it ridiculous that a team like that can be playing so badly. So there was no drama, obviously. 5-1 doesn't make for good drama. Let me say that the myth of the comebacks will not disappear. This will get forgotten. And you should the the pundits talking today, oh it's bad news for Barcelona. They spinned it that way. Bad news for Barcelona. Real Madrid will not be in the Champions League. We're gonna win the league now because that's what in their

DNA. But let me put you an example of what Jules is saying. I think it was annoying from Real Madrid for the fans, for the pundits, for us even neutrals, because they didn't offer any resistance and they just, there's a team that seems obsolete and without answers. So as I said, one example, I spoke to Miquel Arteta and he said that he stood it, the comebacks, why do they do it? What pond they do it? What happens when they do it? And you. And that translated into clever game management, slowing things down. From the beginning, I think Raja would probably had the earliest yellow car for wasting time

in the middle of 35 or whatever it was, but it was part of a plan, a plan that had to do with a lot of details. That and a bunch of other things that they did. Madrid went for chaos again, but without any logic. As Jules says, crosses into the box, there's no, Jose Luis is not there anymore. But do the players need to take some blame for this? I know all the blame, Guillem, is on Ancelotti, but there was some big talk from the likes of Juve Bellingham in the press conference. Surely they needed to step up. I know Ancelotti is

getting all the blame and of course he's the manager, he's supposed to put the tactical plan together but where were these big players stepping up in the big moment? How often do we have to say that unless you've got the right structure individuals will not shine? I mean what Ramadri do is a coin in the air all the time depending on the individuals again Couture talking after the game he was very clear we cannot wait, we cannot just have Vinicius to save us all the time or Vellingham getting to the box scoring a goal when perhaps he's not even deserve it so it was a team that didn't have a plan for this particular game. I think that Arsenal were tremendous over the two legs I mean the fact of the Manneros is that they ran 21 kilometers more over the time which shows you everything that they that they were capable of doing and why they deserve this.

And you didn't see any of that desire, any of the hunger from Real Madrid. We speak about the remontada, we're gonna close the roof, it's gonna be an amazing atmosphere. And we didn't see that. And it was too much talk and no action really. And this is squarely on Ancelotti. I don't think he's found the right tactics. And I'm always somebody who defends Ancelotti. And I love the way that he...and I...you definitely know. I love the way that he puts his players, that allows them sort of to play and to show their respective

quality in those positions. And I think that weirdly enough, I mean, we talk a lot about Tony Crowes and how much he's been missing. And I like the fact that he doesn't have this sole identity that they always rely on. They do study the opponent. They do figure out the weaknesses, whether it's Donald Rumer with his feet, like we saw in that comeback against PSG. They do that a lot. And I think that's what has made them so successful is their pragmatism, is their ability to rely on and adapt and find the strengths of their team. But I do think there's something going on with Vinny Jr. I don't see him having the confidence level

ever since he didn't win the Ballon d'Or. It's almost like there's something about him right now where he's not at that level. I think Kylian Mbappe is working through the middle and that's not where he wants to be. He's taking up the spaces that usually Bellingham will run into to score those goals. So they've had these absences,

none more important than Dani Carvajal. And yet I say all this and still think that they need a new voice in the dressing room. There needs to be some sort of change and maybe Ancelotti will leave. What's the timeline now, Guillaume? Because we've spoken a lot, haven't we? The fact that it's going to happen. Ancelotti will leave at the end of the season. But I've heard talk that Xabi Alonso might not want the job at this point in time. Jurgen Klopp's been mentioned as well. What do you think happens next over the next few weeks and months? Who told you that Xavi doesn't want the work? No apparently he's bought a new

house in Düsseldorf and he's considering staying. His plan was always if he works well as Sanse, Real Sociedad B, then he goes to either Bayern Munich, Liverpool or Real Madrid after Leverkusen. He went well at Real Sociedad B, he's gone really well at Leverkusen, perhaps his project there or his time there is finished and Ramadhin won him. The Klopp story is the typical story that appears the day after a defeat like being knocked out of the Champions League in the quarterfinals. If you know a little bit about Klopp, he loves his lifestyle. He had enough of managing about two years before he actually left. No way, I don't think he's going to turn that around. But a change is needed. Timing of it, well, there is a co-final to be played and then the the season has to finish in May and then there is a period there until the 13th of June when the club of cup starts and that could go on for a month. So I see Ramadi telling Ancelotti Telli well end of the season, thank you

very much, see what happens maybe with a cup in having won a cup or not, we'll see. And then maybe the likes of Solari perhaps taking over for the summer, well, Xabi comes on and prepares himself for next season. Something like that is probably what they're thinking of. But I'm telling you, since October, those things that both Jules and Mina have been mentioning about the balance is not right, things are not being done, that's been identified by the club, so they're ready for a change. Because that's all good, the change of manager, I think we all agree

that it's needed as much as we love Carlo, but there's a problem with this squad anyway, and whoever comes next, whether it's Fabio Alonso, it's Guillem, it's Mina, it's Pep Guardiola, it's Jurgen Klopp, it's whoever you want, I don't think this can work right now with this squad because Minas said I think that Kroos obviously hasn't been replaced. Can you really play with that front four considering that not many of them defend, they don't run? Minas again mentioned how outrun they were by Arsenal and I think I read that Mbappe in average in the Champions League this season has run 6.4 kilometers. I mean, come on, as much as I love him, really. This is not even running. This is walking at that level. And so it feels like, maybe I'm wrong, but it feels I don't know who could come in, unless

there's also big calls made in the squad. So yeah, what about Vinny's future? What do you do in midfield, for example? What do you do defensively too? Because, OK, Militao is going to come back, but we saw Alaba not good enough anymore. Rudiger not good enough anymore, probably. You know, what do you do? Trent is coming. Is Trent really the answer for a team that is so unbalanced and so vulnerable defensively?

There's so many calls to be made as well as the manager, but also with the squad, because otherwise you can bring Jesus Christ. I'm not sure even he can solve this mess up. I mean, I do think the absence of Falaam Mendy is also like it's, I wanted to ask you Jules, do you feel like Mbappe has been the same great Mbappe since the World Cup? Sort of, it was almost like you had this version of him leading up to the World Cup and then one afterwards. And I just...

Yeah. No, I know. I hear you. I like somebody texting me this morning, a squad big in French football saying, you know, Kylian is turning 27 in December. Exactly. This is supposed to be this... And he would not have won at 27, he would not have won a Ballon d'Or or a Champions

League. And I don't think he saw this fault. Obviously, we said this is a squad and a club with issues, the injuries, especially the Carver-Halwan, Cruz, but we're not gonna repeat what you just said. But he looks, it feels like because they won so much without him last season and now he's arrived and things are not working out anymore,

it does feel like the culprit, is that what we said culprit is responsible in a way, which I think is a bit harsh because it's not all on him, he still has scored 33 goals this season in all competitions, it's not all bad. But yeah, I think the expectations were probably that he could take this team to win the Champions League or the league again and it looks like they might not win either. Some of the things again that we all mentioned have been identified. So there will be a new centre-back coming in. There will be a holding midfielder, maybe Thubimendi.

He's ready to leave Real Sociedad, Arsenal won him as well. I think Rodrigo will suffer the consequences of not having made an impact at this stage of the season. He scored one goal in the last two months and a half. So I can see Vinny and Mbappé up front. But somehow the conditions have to be created for Mbappé to succeed. How often against Arsenal he picked the ball in his own half, but like on the edge of the box and started driving. When he drew the ball, he left players behind all the time, but it was just a run to a road with no exit most of the box and started driving. When he threw the ball, he left players behind all the time,

but it was just a run to a road with no exit most of the time. So all that is coaching. And I feel that Xabi Alonso will convince them, both Vini and Mbappé, that it's not possible not to run. Not just choosing either which games to play, but be ready for every single one and that will help the other signing the one if they get a striker that can replace Mbappe sometimes if Hendrik wants to leave so there'll be changes. Slightly upset that when Jules listed all the possible managers he said me and I said Guillaume, didn't say me Jules.

You might as well have spotted the rest of them. Also you're not a UEFA B coach. That's true, that's true. I don't have my licenses. Let's move from Madrid to Milan now. Harry Kane, holding back the tears, he was very emotional after Bayern Munich were eliminated by Inter at San Siro. He also said the goals that Bayern conceded on the night were criminal. But Mena, I want to talk to you about Inter's reaction when Kane scored that goal not long after half-time you wondered Are our Inter going to wilt here? What's the reaction going to be? Nine minutes later, they'd gone two on up that says a lot about their character

I know that Bayern then got a goal Eric Dyer scored But what does it say about their character and the way this Inter team under Simone and Zaghi is just ready for anything and can Coat with anything. You saw that character in the first leg, right? I mean, obviously, when Müller comes back, you think to yourself, well, they've got their equaliser and Inter immediately, you know, last minutes, you think this is an Italian side. Surely, this Italian side is going to manage the game, but they didn't manage the game.

They went for it. And I think this is the difference what Simone and Zaghi has built right now. This is an interside that really believe in themselves when they're talking about a potential trouble. They're not even just talking about the trouble. They think they're going to win the club world cup too. And there's this certain level of maturity that they're displaying right now and genuine confidence in their talents and in their maturity levels. And you're seeing that as well with Laltaro Martinez with a brilliant defense. But yes, obviously, so they managed to do that in the first leg.

In the second leg, as soon as they conceded, Barella turned around to his teammates and they said, calma, we've got this. We've got this under the bag. And they did. And they got two quick goals. I think this is a different interside. I'm not saying to you it's perfect, but I think it's got all the components that you need for them to be challenging or at least to reach the final. This is a side

that really believes in itself. It's got youth, it's got veteran experience, it's got the technique and capability of a strong barrel in midfield of a player like Lataro Martinez who knows how to hold up the ball and play with his back to goal and right now they're making the difference and I think they can be they can be challenges I just don't know whether they can beat this Barcelona because that's my bet for the winners. Jules Laltaro Martinez very very impressive 150th goal for the club, amazing celebration, jumping up towards the fans. We see the most impressive aspect to this Inter performance. I think it's five Champions League games in a row that he's scored in now. Yeah, first time I think in Inter Milan history.

If you look at the stats for the last five or six years, he's always above 20 or 25 goals in all competitions. He's so underrated. I don't know why people don't hype him more than what they do because he's just an outstanding striker. You know, he won the Copa America for Argentina really in last summer more than anybody else in the Argentina team. He was outstanding. And yeah, the front two is interesting because he's so different

because not many teams play with the front two now. And it's a key part of Inzaghi's tactics and everything and Lautaro and Turam work so well together and Turam is such a wonderful player to have as a second striker, to come and support a striker like Lautaro but he's a wonderful striker that I don't think has the credit that he deserves really because he's really an incredible finisher. So, Guillaume, this sets up an amazing semi-final. Barcelona against Inter. Memories of 2010. One of Inter's greatest nights. That second leg, we were looking at the stats, they didn't have a single shot, did they, in that second leg. Barcelona won the second leg 1-0 and on aggregate I think it was 3-2 wasn't it? It was a red card of Thiago Mota with that also iconic moment of Sergio Busquets face just picking through his hands on the ground

just looking to see if he'd been sent off or what. It was a dominated proceedings. A top plate does a right back in the shuffle of Mourinho did for that interside. Of course Pep Guardiola was in charge of Barcelona. Piquet scored in the minute 84 and Bojan Kerkic had a goal disallowed. I forgot about that, yeah. That shouldn't have been disallowed. I forgot about that, yeah, there was a goal disallowed wasn't there? Disallowed. And what would have happened if he hadn't? If they had given him the goal and then Barcelona qualifies,

just a morning news story would have been different I feel. We wouldn't have got that amazing celebration when he ran across the pitch, pointing towards the fans. And Valdez pushing him away. What about the hugs? The hugs and the tears with Matarazzi afterwards. It was almost like they were lovers that were saying bye to each other and he had to leave straight away and Real Madrid were calling. Okay, that was the final. But it is a remarkable story and I

think that they are looking like they have some of that grit and some of that belief that they showed in 2010. I think this is a possibility for them to be honest with you and I'm so... It is Barcelona again. It's just not a defensive inter again. So are we going to see a complete difference in the sense that there's just going to be so many goals or they are still defensively strong to be honest. And for more great stories from 2010, Meena, you've been involved in a documentary on BBC Sounds, also on the BBC iPlayer,

so there's an audio version, TV version as well, how to win the Champions League with yourself, but with Jose Mourinho sitting down to talk about it as well. I've heard a bit of this, Meena, it's fantastic to hear him talking about 2010. Yeah, because he's such a charismatic character and what happened in that 2010, I mean, to win the treble, it was stunning for a side that not many people thought at the time would manage it and who had spent so many years being considered, you know, not even necessarily the best team in Milan, let alone in Italy and now Europe. And how he changed everything, whether it's Eto, his...the confidence that he brought to the side, how he changed everything, whether it's Eto, the confidence that he brought to the

side, how he built it alongside the technical directors. It's just the story of 2010 and especially of the villain era of Busquets. No, I just say that because I will never forget that, what he did on the floor, right? It was just like you think it's the standout moment of that tie. But I think that was the hardest game that they had to get through. And yeah, it was an exceptional travel year, and it's a documentary about that and about him and his feelings towards that in the playlist. On the Football Daily. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball. I'm John Murray. And I'm Ian Dennis.

And Friday's On the Football Daily means one thing. It's time for the Commentators View episode. Join us every Friday as we look ahead to the weekend's football action with a few untold stories along the way. A wasp flew into my mouth while I was talking and I panicked. The Commentators View. Only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds.

On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleagues listen on BBC Sounds. Pleased to say we have got a special guest joining us now. Someone who will be able to tell us about leading one of the biggest clubs in the world. So over 10 years at Bayern Munich, he worked as a scout, head of recruitment and then as technical director until April 2024. Welcome to EuroLeague's Marco Nepe. Marco, thank you so much for joining us. Hello. Hi, thank you. Nice to be here. Before we get into your decade at Bayern Munich, so much to talk about, including the players that you had a hand in signing. I just want to mention Bayern Munich's exit from the Champions League. How tough do you think it will be to take for the club, especially when you

consider the finals going to take place in Munich? Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, it's always tough to be out of the knockout stage in the quarter-final. I mean, these size of clubs, they're always focusing to be in the final, especially when the final is at home. So it's something completely different. But to be honest, in the quarter-final, if you miss three to four key players, it's always really difficult. And yeah, it's a tough one for the club. Emotional moment for Thomas Müller, his final Champions League game for Bayern Munich.

You would know him very well. Are you surprised they're letting him go? It was a really good performance, wasn't it, by Thomas Müller, particularly in the first half? This is Thomas Müller. So he's a legend, he's a legend of the club, he's a different guy in football business so yeah and he had the chance the last match in Milano to show himself but I think his biggest dream, his desire was to be part of the final at home in his stadium so it didn't happen so let's see. It's also a really difficult decision for the club. Let's get into the job you did at Bayern Munich. I know that Mina, Jules and Guillermo want to ask you about that. Some of the players that you were involved in bringing

to the club, so Joshua Kimmich, Alfonso Davis, Jamal Musiala, when he was 16 years old I think, Harry Kane, the most expensive signing in Bundesliga history. Out of those names, out of those deals, which one holds the best memories for you? Good question. I mean, every transfer in this, in my journey with Bayern has a story behind. So it's of course, it was a special one when we signed in my first season, Joshua Kimmich and also Kingsley Coleman this year, they both were 19 years old. And I think for the club, it was a completely new direction we went to. So these young guys, Kimmich came from the second Bundesliga team like Leipzig that time

and Kingsley Coleman, he joined us from the bench of Juventus Turin. So it was not a particular normal transfer of Bayern Munich. Of course, sometimes, I think in every journey, the start could be really interesting and important for the rest of the story. These two signings, they're still playing for the club. They achieved a lot of success and they won a lot of trophies. They won the Champions League together. Of course, these two signings probably are still in my mind. Mark, I'm going to ask you about something that you really need a book to explain, but we don't have that much time. One of the highlights of your career by a minute was 2020 when you won six titles in that year, Champions League, the League, the Cup, the Super Cup, the Club World Cup, the UEFA Super Cup.

And then if you look at the squad itself, the most expensive player cost 22 million euros. So it was a cheaply but cleverly formed squad and 11. From that period, what was important for you and for the club? What kind of profile of players were you getting? What was the idea? I think it was really important that the whole club understood the idea of what would be the new strategy, the new philosophy of the Dining's. We signed a year before winning the the sex tuple, we

signed Alfonso Davis from Canada, so from the MLS. I mean this is a story, it's it's romantic, I love it. A guy, a refugee, he grew up in Canada, he played well, he joined the club and it was not that easy for him the first months. He didn't get too much minutes. One and a half year later, he was on the pitch at the final against PSG and he won. So that's now a Champions League winner and the identity, the story and that everyone in the club understood, okay, the last couple of years in this period of time, the transfer market, the salaries, the transfer fees, it changed a lot.

It went so expensive. So we had to find a way, being really smart, a bit quicker than the rest of our competitors and finding ourself in a way, in a strategy that we can compete with these clubs by not spending the same amount of money. So the disadvantage, going a bit deeper for Bundesliga club like Bayern Munich is probably also the TV contract if you compare it with the UK clubs. So also you have to find ways that your revenue is still on this level that you can invest into your squad and being as most competitive as you can be and ready to win Champions League.

You have an eye for talent which is obviously clearly remarkable for the players that you sign but is there also I guess the mentality side of it for players because you can be super talented but if you don't have the personality to play for a club like Bayern with the pressure and the expectations and what it means to play for that club and the dressing room, etc. you probably would not succeed. So do you do almost as much even outside of the talent that you can see just watching a player for a few minutes or a few games on finding out

if he's got the right personality to also be joining a club like Bayern, which is not a normal club, not an ordinary club. Especially how I said, the last period of time, the last 10 years in the football market, it became more and more transparent. We have a big improvement of data, we have a lot of more scouting departments all over the world. So it is not about finding the player, it's more about know the player probably in every single angle. So that means

know his environment, his ambitions, how he works. So it's more behind. So you have to understand the player as a human being. So we are working all in this football industry. It's about people business and a transfer is not a copy-paste method. So it's not that you take someone from this environment into yours and it works the same way. No, it doesn't. So to understand that these players, they have a lot of influential factors around them, try to understand these guys and try to understand what it means if this guy comes into your dressing room. This is, I think, this bridge.

You have to have the fantasy, you have to have the idea of what it means if this guy also on the other side is not a risk coming to a dressing room like FC Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona. Sometimes it could also be a big chance for you to see how the others are working, to see how they invest their time, their energy into the profession, into this job. So you can also expect that there's something to improve and to learn from for them. So it's also a good chance to improve and to make a step as football players, also as a human being and as a professional. That's a question about players,

but I want to take it to an actual sporting director. We've seen sometimes there'll be great talented sporting directors who know how to identify talent and who have done tremendous work at a club. And then they get hired to the big clubs. So what is the difference? How do you have to change when you are working for a club with the kind of pressure of Bayern Munich that is so huge and prestigious as a club and the pressures that come with that?

How do you create the plans and how does your job change from being a technical director of say a normal club with good ambitions and identifying talent to one like Bayern Munich with that size? A good question. So I really don't know the other side. So I worked 10 years with Bayern and the expectations around this club are the highest. And what I can, what I try to get out of these, of all these experiences are in this size of a club and especially with these expectations, you have to understand that there's not too much time. Of course, I understand that every club has different goals, different demands, but all the same goal to perform on their highest level, wherever you are. If you're a mid-range club, you want to come between the first eight, first 10, but if

you're a Champions League competitor, you're always fighting to win the league. And you have to understand it's not that different between, okay, everyone is hunting their own goals in these clubs, especially when we are speaking about the Champions League winning clubs. You have to speak about the patients. You will be much more under the focus of the media, of the expectations of your stakeholders. I mean, speaking about the supporters, they all have the right that they want to see that you deliver by performance, that the team is delivering by performance.

You have to handle it by yourself, but I think the one big point is patience. Don't underestimate how people can change if they have more pressure and they are losing patience because I told you already, people business, we are interacting every day, hours change if they have more pressure and they are losing patience. Because I told you already, people business, we are interacting every day, hours of hours, speaking to each other. These, I mean, 25 players, they all want the same. There's not one of them say, okay, this year I will take it easy. No, no.

There's no one in this squad who takes it more easy than years before. They all start to win. Win, win, win. And you have to take care. So understand, still understand that we are speaking to each other, that we try to connect with each other, that we create a trustful relationship to each other. This is my biggest learning that take care of the people and speak with them. So create something. It's about culture. It's really about culture. If you have the culture and everything is fine, it doesn't mean that it takes you for the next four years, five years, three years. No, no, no. It's a daily business working on it, being with each other, chaining the same goals together. It's togetherness.

Marco, give us an insight into the transfer of Harry Kane. So the most expensive signing in Bundesliga history. How long had Bayern Munich been interested in Harry Kane and was there some resistance due to his age? Of course, we all know what a great player he is and how many goals he scored, but I think he was 29 at the time heading towards 30. Was there some resistance due to that at the time? The transfer was really a huge one. So we saw in him the missing puzzle piece and I think still he shows how important he can be for every club in the world. His qualities

are indiscussable, so he's an amazing player. And especially because he is 29, and the rest of the group is in the age structure around 24, 26, depends on which player on the pitch. But the average is really, it's in a, I mean, for football club and for football players, it's in a top age structure, the average.

So you can add on a 30-year-old striker, especially with his experience, with all he has seen in the Premier League. The club can be really proud that this kind of a striker is here. Marco, you're an expert on the close-up picture, if you like, the recruitment, the profile of the player that you need, and you've been talking about that. But also, you have stood it, the bigger picture, which is football style, where football is going. I'm mentioning this because I seem to feel that in England, particularly, there's a lot of resistance to the new, let's call it, pepwardiola model of organized attack,

where defenders have to play a lot of the ball. Some people accuse it of being too robotic. People are saying it's boring, Guillaume. Boring. And some say that only big teams can do it. And there is a fan's resistance to the change as well. Do you agree with me that it's not only the prominent model of our era, but it's also in a few years time, it will be the only one, or the one used mostly universally

by all the clubs, big and small. That's where we're heading because that's how the new coaches have been prepared and how the new players have been educated. My point of view is always understand what is your market position? Where are you? Where are your strengths? Where are your weaknesses? So let's be honest, the last year's clubs, no matter which level, they all improved a lot

the defensive method, how they defend, more disciplined, more as a team compact. It's so, so difficult to find solutions for clubs like City, P.G., Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid. It's super difficult to find against teams who improve their defensive methodology a lot. So, starting with the answer for your question, we all can be really, really happy that people like Pep Guardiola, genius like Pep Guardiola, are helping us to see what football can be. I mean, we all love this game, and especially because of people like him. We are speaking about an answer on the demands the club and the league and the competitors

give to him. So this boring, what you call, what people probably call boring style of attacking, it's more or less, I mean, everyone in football world loves to have a 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, whatever. We want to see goals, we want to have an entertainment. Football should be entertaining, but this way how he acts and how he finds solutions right now, it's an answer. I can't agree that this could be the idea of in the next five years of every single club. Because look, the first idea came in my mind is like, okay,

if City starts to play counter attack, or if they would like to start counter attack, it doesn't work because the opponent won't be so stupid and say, okay, now we attack against City and then Harlan, Div Breuner, whatever, Foden, then they have the space of 40, 50 meters. No, it doesn't work. Then, I mean, we have to understand you as a club, you as a team, you have your identity, and you have your role in this football system,

in your league, in the Champions League, wherever you're playing, you have a role. And you can change a bit, step by step, changing, adjusting a bit the style, being a bit more aggressive, a bit more entertaining, a bit more various in your idea of hitting an opponent. But I can't imagine that lower table teams could use the same ideas in controlling organized attacking like PEP is doing with this quality. Let's enjoy it how it is. So it's awesome. We want variety Marco, don't we? We want a bit of variety also going forward. Just before we let you go, what are your plans now Marco? What are your plans for the future? I think it was April 2024 that you left Bayern. What are you working on now?

What's next for you? Yeah, super good question. I'm looking forward. I recharged a lot. So I had the time. I used the time a lot to reflect myself. So if you are in a club in this rhythm, you're living, you don't have too much time thinking about how you do,

how can you do different. So I used the time, hopefully, no, I'm pretty sure I'm convinced that I used the time in a good way. I had a lot of conversations with interesting people around the football business, so I'm really looking forward to take over the next interesting project. And yeah, that's probably speaking some weeks and the answer will be different. Looking forward to finding out. Marco, thank you so much for joining us. So let's end by talking about Paris Saint-Germain.

We had a quick chat about them at the top duels, but this matchup against Arsenal, how much are you looking forward to that? Obviously they played in the league stage, didn't they? But everyone is saying this is a different PSG now that Arsenal are going to face. Yeah, I think that's right. That was back in October. They've grown so much since then. They've clicked really.

There's a lot of things that are different compared to the team that went to the Emirates and was pretty easily beaten, to be fair, by an Arsenal team at the time. That was very good, much better than they were maybe a few weeks later when they had to start to have some injuries. So it would be great, I think it would be great because Arsenal are probably a more complete team or just all around with the ball, without the ball defensively going forward even with Miquel Marino as a number nine, for example, who I think has massively improved in that position, for example, I think has massively improved in that position for example in recent weeks but but but PHG have this intensity this energy the youth and we saw the youth at Villa that

sometimes we saw the good and not so good but like we said they will learn a lot from that Villa game and then they won't fear anybody that's for sure and I don't think it would be a it would be a joy for us want to face them too. It would be great. I think the second leg being in Paris is a little bit of an advantage too. Guillaume, one on Paris Saint-Germain against Arsenal. From you, how do you think that goes? I see PSG not only better than earlier in the season, I see it as the best team in Europe. I think Mina mentioned earlier that they will be the third or fourth favourites.

And I'm surprised about that because I see a team that has got a lot of solutions. in Europe. I think Mina mentioned earlier that they will be the third or fourth favorites. I'm surprised about that because I see a team that has got a lot of solutions, whatever happens. The only weakness, major weakness, of course, is when they defend in their own box. But if they manage to actually defend high up, when they steal the ball, they're just such a threat. One, they have to attack a team like Arsenal will probably identify themselves as being inferior to PSG, which would probably mean defending deep and whatever. They still have got solutions for that. And on top of it, they've got a player that can do magic.

So that's the combination that takes you to a final. For me, PSG is the best team in Europe and PSG Barcelona probably will be the final, I think. I love that Usman Dembele didn't want the player of the match award. That is elite winners mentality, isn't it? Jules, thank you very much, Guillaume, thank you very much. Amina as well, thank you. So that is all we've got time for. The next Football Daily will be a reaction to the Europa League quarter-finals. It's another busy week of live commentaries across the weekend. On Saturday, Arsenal against Lyon, first leg of the Women's Champions League

semi-final 1230, five live sport. 3pm, the Premier League game is Everton against Manchester City with the 530 commentary coming from Villa Park, the visit of Newcastle. And on Sunday, Ipswich against Arsenal at 2 on Premier League Sunday followed by Liverpool against Leicester at 4.30. Goodbye for now. This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy, it's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years English football has been dominated by Manchester City. Eight Premier League titles, six League Cups, three FA Cups, one Champions League. And they're both free!

And more than a hundred charges. Somebody turned up at the Etihad Stadium and effectively served papers. I'm Clive Myrie and this is Football on Trial. The Manchester City charges. They believe they've got irrefutable this is Football on Trial. The Manchester City Charges. They believe they've got irrefutable evidence. Listen on BBC Sounds.