Football Daily - Euro Leagues: The Pope’s love of football, & tributes to Leo Beenhakker

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Steve Crossman is joined by Guillem Balague, Mina Rzouki and Julien Laurens to talk the latest in European football.The team pay tribute to Pope Francis and his love of football. Are Inter Milan falling at the final hurdle of the season, and should title playoffs exist?The tributes continue as Marcel van der Kraan joins the pod to reflect on the life and career of Dutch footballer and coach, Leo Beenhakker.And finally, who are the other universally loved coaches of the modern game?02:07 Tribute to Pope Francis 10:31 Are Inter collapsing? 17:20 Should title playoffs exist? 26:00 Leo Beenhakker tribute 34:42 Ancelotti’s future, & universally loved coachesBBC Sounds / 5 Live / Radio 5 Sports Extra weekend commentaries: Sat 1500 Newcastle v Ipswich in the Premier League, Sat 1715 Crystal Palace v Aston Villa in the FA Cup semis, Sun 1400 Bournemouth v Man Utd in the Premier League, Sun 1400 Chelsea v Barcelona in the Women’s Champions League, Sun 1630 Liverpool v Tottenham in the Premier League, Sun 1630 Nottingham Forest v Man City in the FA Cup semis.

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tuning into the Inside Track, wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts On the Football Daily Podcasts The EuroLeagues With Steve Crossman Listen on BBC Sounds Hello, welcome to the EuroLeagues On the Football Daily Podcast We've got Guillaume Balague, Mina Rizuki and Julien Laron all with us

Hello everybody Good evening Hello, hello It is a big couple of months of finals coming up in Europe, guys. The Coppa Italia, the Coppa del Rey, the Champions League, the Dudley Latham Memorial Cup final. That is the greatest, especially if you win it. So tell us how Biggles Wade United have been celebrating. Well, it's been 24 hours of winning. He hasn't slept.

It goes on for a whole year. We don't have to return the cup until next year. And it was against the best team in the league, Milton Keynes, Irish. And we deserved it. 3-1 with a goal that's gone viral. Our 2-1 was just from the halfway line practically, loving the goalkeeper. He's going to be on Sky Sports and CBS tomorrow. So that's Neal McCarty who scored it. You have lost your vice. That's how much you got into it last night, clearly.

It was winning at whatever level and we've all won something at some point. No? Okay. Winners like us can tell you that winning is so hard at whatever level, so hard. We haven't won, the men's first team had won a cup in 10 years and yes we celebrated like one. There was about a hundred or plus fans and coaches and players. Great, great night. Right, in today's podcast, we're going to be paying tribute to the legendary Leo Bernhacke, one of Europe's great football managers. He passed away last week. We'll

be discussing some of the other universally loved coaches in the game. We'll also talk into are they collapsing at the final hurdle this season. Before all of that we're going to start with a Euroleague's tribute to Pope Francis. What you might not know is that Pope Francis was a massive football fan. There are some great stories around his love for football. You brought this up Jules in our WhatsApp group. A lot of it is around San Lorenzo where he was a club member all his life. Yeah exactly, number 88,235 even. Like since a really young boy he was a massive fan of the club and I think of football in general there's a lot of photos as you said,

a lot of memories from footballers who were always welcome at the Vatican of course and I mean of all Diego Maradona, of all of them, and Lionel Messi, I think they're probably his two favorite. But yeah, I think probably he was the first Pope, and I don't know if he's the last one to be so in love with football, but certainly somebody that was so in love that he could not even watch games anymore.

So he stopped watching a long time ago, didn't see Argentina winning the World Cup in 2022. Of course, probably the best story for me in all of this is that I need to find it somewhere. That's it. One of the times when Diego Maradona came to see him at the Vatican, he said to him, listen, I've got a question for you. Who was the best? You or Pelé? And Diego turned around and said to him, Lionel Messi. And I just think it was right, the great question to ask from a pope. Can you imagine the pope asking Maradona, are you the best or is he the best? And for Diego to respond, Messi is kind of the best. I think he just sums it all up well.

Actually, I'm going to go back to that question in a different way, because he was asked Messi or Maradona, the Pope was asked who is best. And he said, a lot of third, Pelé. And he'd met Pelé in a flight, devout Catholic of course, Pelé. And he said, because the Pope used football in a way to send another message to the UNICEF, he said, Pelé had great humanity.

And so he wasn't looking for a football rivalry. He was trying to say, because for him, football was much more than goals and stats, which is a school of life, a space to meet others, a cultural expression of every country. So it was his way of saying, I wouldn't fight this one, but be a good person like Pele was. He was he was very open, criticised in Maradona. Didn't have a lot to say about Messi because Messi He was very open, criticised in Maradona. Didn't have a lot to say about Messi because Messi is shy and didn't speak to him when they met. But in that same meeting of the Pope and Maradona, guess what the

Pope asked Maradona? Which was the hand? Which was the hand? And Maradona raised their right hand. That one. I've read, Mayna, today that San Lorenzo's new stadium is going to be named after him as well. So that just kind of gives you an indication not just of what the team meant to him, but what he means to the team. And this was something that's been in the works for a bit, although there's a bit of a scandal going on at the moment with the club president over at San Lorenzo and whether or not he's accepted bribe or a donation and

there's several protests going on. But actually I have my own story that I wanted to talk about. In 2013 when he was confirmed as Pope, a lot of Bocca fans, well there were fans to greet him and some of them were wearing the Bocca jersey and he had a bit of a Jose Mourinho moment where he went up to them and held up three fingers. And he said, we won the derby 3-0. And I just think that that is, it is just so amazing because you wouldn't imagine that. Another story was in 1998, he used to go to the locker room. So he was the Archbishop now of Buenos Aires. And he would go to the to the locker room of San Lorenzo and bless the team before they started.

But they were going through a rough period at that time. And they had hired Alfio Alcoco, Basile. And he sees him show up. And he goes, who's this guy? Well, why is he here? Why is he in my dressing room? And the president came out and said, oh, he's a priest who always comes to bless the players before the game.

And the new coach goes, well, if you called me, it's because you're in a desperate situation. So this guy is connected to the desperate situations. I don't want to see him in my locker, get him out. And so he stopped coming. And then years later, he was confirmed and the club president saw the coach again, you know, by chance and he goes to him, did you see the Pope? And he goes again, you know, by chance.

And he goes to him, did you see the Pope? And he goes, yeah, it's Argentine. The whole world's talking about it. And he goes, yeah, but do you know who he is? He goes, who is he? He's like, he's the guy that you drove away from our dressing room, the one who used to bless the locker room before. Isn't that such an incredible story?

So he goes, I was the guy who got rid of the Pope. So there were just so many stories coming out in Italy. It's an amazing, really amazing anecdote. I think there's a moment here, Jules, for the magic of radio as well, which I will never sort of miss an opportunity to mention because you said it right at the start there about that he took a religious vow, this is many, many years before he became Pope, not to watch television. It was something that he gave up. So I mean, he had scores and league tables printed out and left on his desk when he became Pope. But his experience

of football all came from listening to the radio, which is something that I love. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Just for that. That made him a great. I'm sure he listened to Five Live when he could from the Vatican, you know, probably the Euroleagues as well to stay in touch with all European football, you, via the BBC World Service, it would not surprise me. You meet all kinds of people who've done that over the years. And also, Guillaume, he's the first autobiography written by a sitting pope and there was a whole chapter on Maradona, which kind of sums it up, doesn't it? Yeah, Maradona and football. I didn't know he'd done that, so it was mentioned in the

WhatsApp group, so I went and read it. And yeah, as I said, he uses football and his stories with football to talk, to advocate for fair play, for humility, for teamwork, the spirit of fraternity and all the good things that sport does for you. He also says that he was a hard leg, as in he wasn't a very good player. He was a better basketball player than a football player. But he identified very quickly how popular football is and how many messages you can send through it. So a very, very, very likeable man in many senses. I like the messages thing as well, meaning because you know listen I'm not trying to say everybody in the world loves football but it is as close to a universal and cultural

game as you can possibly get and Guillaume kind of touched on it a little bit earlier there but the fact that he would use football metaphors around teamwork and that kind of thing to make various points during his papacy I love that he would go there as a way to communicate to the whole world and if there's one job on the planet where you have to be able to speak to everybody in the world it is that job. Yeah he talked about the principles that football teaches us and the how much it can bring peace and unity how we can all come together to cheer on athletes. And he spoke of athletes in such glowing terms

because he said they've decided their destiny not by chance, but by hard work. And that should be what we look up to. That is one thing that we can admire, is their route to becoming footballers and the discipline that it takes and the hard work that it takes for them to decide their destiny.

So he is sort of, he's sort of like a lot of us right when you choose to follow a game and you choose to... why do you follow football right? It depends on whether you just like the thrill or whether nowadays I don't know what it's about but surely it is because you like to hear the human and personal stories and mostly you just like to see like everyone cheering even if it's a team that you don't love so much, there is a part of you that will always enjoy seeing a team cheering. It's great that listening to all this,

we remember how great he was, his relation to football, how great football and sport is. But I just think that we missed a trick here. It should be part of the new cycle. And after the coaches coaches press conferences, you should have a weekly quote from the Pope, when he used to talk about football, and it will make us think because everything he said obviously had a double meaning and the charm to be listened to. But yeah, we never had them in sports bulletins anyway.

There's also a great existential question from Mina there, why do we follow football? Which is something I've been asking myself quite a lot over the last few weeks. So perhaps the fans of Inter Milan, because this time last week they were just securing that place in the Champions League semi-finals. Seven days on, they've surrendered their lead at the top of Serie A, they've been knocked out of the Coppa Italia semis by Milan. What's going on, Mina? Oh, it's all falling apart. And he sounds so upset about it. He's so happy.

I am a UV fan, let's not forget this. No, I don't believe you. No, but I do feel sad because I feel sad, especially for Zumoni and Zaghi. And here's the thing, yeah, he gets, he just doesn't get, I think, the amount of respect that he deserves, especially from the people like Gazette dello Sport. Like, there's a lot that just don't give him, and sort of they talk about Antonio Conte,

like he's the next, you know, I don't know, but when it comes to Simone and Zaghi, there's always some criticism, there's always piling the pressure on. And they spoke about it, they said that he's either gonna be in Dreamland or it's gonna be hell, because this is the week that defines interseason. So it is gonna be about, you know,

we're gonna talk about the first leg of Barcelona. Then we have to talk about what is gonna happen against Roma midweek. And then obviously the match that they played yesterday, which is a Coppa Italia, in which they lost again to Milan. And this is after they lost on the weekend, two games in a row, back-to-back losses, which they haven't had in ages. And most importantly, they couldn't even get on the score sheet. The media were just horrendous when they were talking about the rotation, because they just

don't feel that they have the squad depth. If Chanon Longley is not playing in midfield and if they've got Aslani playing there, then it's just not the same. Up front, they're totally dependent on Turam and Lázaro Martínez and Turam is injured right now. They're really feeling it. And just when it was all supposed to be so good, we're saying, we're not just going for the treble, we're going to go for all four, we're going to go for the Club World Cup. It seems like it's just caught up to them. They've been playing so many matches and there's only so much you can do and only so much energy because it seemed like there wasn't even a reaction against Milan. It was almost over. It was like, that's it, we're tired,

Milan scored and there wasn't that reaction that you expected from Inter. So, unfortunately for them, I'm actually a little bit worried about Barcelona, but maybe they can get a few players back from injury and it will be exciting then. I mean, how does Simone Inzaghi react to all of that? Is he a Mourinho? Is he a Pep Guardiola? What kind of reaction he gets to the media pressure and everybody's pressure? He tends to get a little bit pedantic if I'm honest, like as in for example over the weekend Orsolini scores the most unbelievable overhead scissor kick and wins the game for Bologna against Inter in the 94th minute and it was just a celebration of Orsolini in general

and Bologna who have just been fantastic and he he kept saying, well, you know, the ball was a throw-in before it was scored. And the throw-in was 10 or 12 or 13 meters ahead of where it should have been. And these are the things. And I know they shouldn't be an alibi. He always says there's no excuse, but then starts to list a few of the excuses. But yes, you've seen him on the touchline.

He's very animated. And I think that he's always somebody who calms down and realizes, you know, listen, this is where we are. We're in turn. We have to forge ahead. But I think that sometimes they expect a lot from him. And I understand that fair play. They've got a brilliant team and it's supposed to be the best team in Italy. So you should be fighting on all fronts. But this is a side that's played 51 games already. And they only played 49 all of last season and they've got players in there like Bastoni who've played

in the summer as well in Euros and they're going to play the Club World Cup. They're just never going to have a break and I just don't know how they can continue like this. They could play duels. So, I mean, 49 last season, that's the most they've ever played in a season. This season, not including the Club World Cup, they could play 60 games, 60. Yeah. Plus, let's not forget, probably 90% of the squad is international players.

So you add on top of that potentially 10 or 12 games with the national team. So for players who are even a certain age, like Chahannoglu or Mkhitaryan, that's a lot of football played. And yes, the rotation could be a good thing for Inza again. We know that at the 60th minute, usually, there's the three changes coming

and we kind of know this is always coming, but it's still not a reason to not talk about fatigue and not talk about the accumulation of games as well. And there's also maybe something that we see with all the other three teams that are still in the Champions League. Barcelona may be the lesser of the three, although they've had narrow wins against Leganes, against El Tavigo, it was pretty shaky. Even yesterday or Tuesday it was, okay, against Mallorca they had 40 shots, they still win 1-0, but they were good. But PSG have taken their eyes a little bit off anything else

apart from the Champions League, Barcelona a bit the same. So maybe also when you get to the semi-finals of the Champions League, the priority is there, and really, to be fair to Inter, if there's one competition where they maybe didn't mind too much being out between the league, the Champions League and the Coppa d'Italia, I guess it would be the Coppa d'Italia, but it makes the other two even more important now. Have they got an old squad, would we say or not? I mean, is average age 20?

The oldest in the Champions League, sorry. No, just to back up your point, yeah, the oldest in the Champions League by far. Because Mourinho's was like nearly 30, wasn't it, was the average age, and this one is 28. So there's, I mean, there are players who can manage 60 game seasons, probably not many of them, but it probably doesn't help game if your average age is that high as well. No, and that continue the conversation about the amount of games. Have we seen the peak of the season already in the quarterfinals of the Champions League when every team was at their best? Because we are talking about that. Barcelona, certainly not. All of a sudden

that pressure that they put in, it's, it's permeable. Teams go through them. We're hearing about Inter. Jules is talking about PSG as well. So have we seen the best of... And is anything going to be done about that? So if we say that we know... Yes, they've put another competition in, Guilherme. That's what's being done. It's not going to happen, is it? So enjoy while it lasts because I think probably two or three of those teams have picked already. It's a good thing that they qualified in the top eight, otherwise they would have had to play another game in Champions League, which is another madness thing about it as well. And I do remember some studies were being conducted

about winners of competitions and the average age was supposed to be around the 27, which is the peak. Or am I wrong in saying that? Because I remember that it was older than I thought when it comes to competition winners, although recent winners have been somewhat younger than what we used to expect before. I do want to ask about the prospect of a playoff

for the Serie A title. Because at the minute, Inter and Napoli, both 71 points the game. I do want to ask about the prospect of a playoff for the Syria title because at the minute. Into a Napoli both 71 points from 33 games, and they changed the rule a couple of years ago. Mina didn't they so if they finished level on points, that's what we'll get.

So I'm curious, actually, for all of you how you view that nobody listens for my opinion. But what I will say is I'm all for it. I am all for a one-off game to decide a title. Me too. No. Come on, you're all about short emotions, short memories.

League final, I'm all for that. You prefer goal difference or even head to head? I prefer to be rewarded for a whole season. You've got the other competitions. But your reward is you get to play for the league in a one-off game. That's not a reward. But again, that's unfair for Inter if they've played 60 matches and Bologna's played 40, right? Sorry, Napoli. No, no, because they're in that many competitions.

The league is 38. Exactly, the league is 38 games in the league. That's it. You play 38, you're level. Why should you be the champions? Because you've scored five goals in Empoli when the other team has scored just one against Empoli. Yes. Let's have play-offs for seventh and eighth and tenth and...

Well, they used to do that as well, didn't they? That's Belgian. That's Belgian. The Belgians have gone too far. The Belgians need strong emotions constantly. Because you've got small attention span and they just need more emotion. I'm not even going to argue with you, Giam. I think you might be right, but you are also describing me,

so that's absolutely fine. But come on, I mean, why not? I mean, isn't it better than Gold Difference deciding a title? It's not Gold Difference, it's head to head, firstly, but because they're tied. Sorry, sorry, yes, of course it is. So in Italy it's head to head. But that's one, one, and one, one.

That's one, one, and one, one. It's one, one, and one, one. So now it is going to be Gold Difference. Yes. But that's only to determine, yeah, It's 1-1 and 1-1. That's 1-1 and 1-1. It is, you're right. It's 1-1 and 1-1. So now it is going to be a goal difference. Yes. But that's only to determine who gets to play in their stadium. But the way that it's going in Italy and security concerns means it's probably going to be on neutral ground anyway.

So level on points, head to head is 1-1, which means it should be in San Siro. Will it be played in San Siro? I don't know, but it's so horrible to have one game all on the line. And Inter's had to go through this before because it's only happened. Hold on, hold on, hold on a second. Go on, Geya, make your case. I'm just going to pop, Francis would have said, for instance, that sport is about process, about learning, about doing it together,

about the up and downs. And at the end of that journey, you come out into a place that if you've done things well, you get rewarded for it. You don't want that. What you want next is another game, please. By the way, we're talking about too many games. You want more games. There's so many reasons. Well, all I'll say, Guilhem, is what Mina told us a great story about Pope Francis earlier when the Boca Juniors fans greeted him and he held up three fingers to say, we've won the three derbies. Short term emotions, Guillaume.

So I think, I think. From the Pope himself. You're mixing things. You're mixing things. Steve, Steve, I'm with you. I'm all for it. I'm going to pray that the next five league games for Inter and Napoli are just exactly the same results and then we can have, you and I can go to that playoff final.

Oh yeah, yeah. Who do you want to win? I mean, you'd want to go. Who do you want to win? I would just go wanting football to be the winner, I mean. Oh God. No, I don't think I'd have a strong emotion. I mean, I do, I really do like Simone and Zaghi, I don't think I'd have a strong emotion. I mean, I do. I really do like Simoni and Zaghi, I would say. I think because the craziness of Inter to have kind of got a leash around that club

over such a long period of time. But then it's a better story if Napoli win it, isn't it? You know, can I just say that the last time this happened was in 1964. And that year was against Bologna, which is why in my head it's like, you know, it's Bologna, right? And Inter were on the losing end to that. But Bologna had the most incredible season because there were five players that were, at the time, I was trying to look for the word, accused of testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs. And they were immediately suspended.

The club was docked three points. That was in that season, yeah? The season that they finished level on points with inter and then it and then Protests exploded because everyone thought that all the big teams were trying to get were trying to basically rob Bologna of the chance to win this trophy and then The Bologna prosecutor discovered that the tubes containing the urine samples from the players were not adequately sealed. So Was there something there or and then it started this huge case. Finally, they were exonerated. They were acquitted

of any wrongdoing and then they finished level on points. And just before they were playing that game, their famous president, Renato de Lara, who the stadium is named after, passed away. And so the stadium was named after him, and then they got to win it against Inter in 1964, which is the last time that Bologna won it. It's a terrific story. And if it happens again, will Inter be losing again another title?

Like, that's just painful, and I'm a Juve fan. Let's finish, one more on Italy before we finish, Mina, is Antonio Conte being very, very angry at the minute and a lot of it is to do with the state of their training ground, isn't it? Which is actually quite an interesting wider topic within Serie A football, I think. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we know that there's bureaucracy that reigns supreme in Italy, right? So it's just impossible to get... He's not so much... He's not angry about stadiums.

He's angry that he doesn't have a good training ground. Yes. Because right now, I mean... And also, most of his irritation comes from the fact that he doesn't have squad depth and that he lost Kivic Kravatskelia and didn't get a worthy replacement, which is Garnaccio, who he really wanted, and he didn't get somebody like that. He'd already lost Ossiman and thought, that's fine. at least I've got Kaviccio Cravedzgele. At least I managed to convince him to stay on. Obviously, not, couldn't keep him past

the winter and then not replaced. And then they had Daveneres, who they relied on, but unfortunately, just recently, once again, he sustained an injury and they blamed the pitch. And the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, he sustained an injury and they blamed the pitch. And the fact of the matter is, is that, you know, that the state of these services is something that Rafa Benitez had talked about in 2014. He said, if there's one thing that I could do with this Napoli side, it would be to change the infrastructure. That's what they need. And the infrastructure is dying. It's decaying. And you look at something like what Fiorentina have done with Viola Park, and that club, I mean, they've spent $400 million all in all on Fiorentina, the new ownership, Comiso.

And the amount of money that they're making, the profit they're making, it makes a difference. But Castel Vortuno, which is the structure, they needed to change everything because they're losing players to injuries, they don't have the squad depth, and right now they don't have attacking players that have that change in pace to really win. But they've got an easy fixture list so I wonder what's going to go on there. But

it sounds like the way that Antonio Conte is speaking, it sounds like he might not be there for very long. I think I've changed my mind actually, Jules. I think Conte beats Inter in a final for the league is the best story possible, actually, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I agree with Mina. I don't think he'll be there next season. I think if he wins them the league, which obviously will be the second title in three

seasons after they had to wait 31 years or 30 years to win, to win, to regain one, would be something special and that would be job done. I think he probably knew that he could not get much higher than that with our team. So there'll probably be more suitors because there will be more clubs in Italy that will be looking managers. Again, I think we could have a very interesting summer in terms of manager and manager jobs in in Serie A between Milan and Juventus, just to name two, probably even Atalanta and Gasperini and Roma after Ranieri, plus Napoli, Conteco. So again, it will be a lot of fun, a bit like last summer, and I think there will probably be a better option for Conteco. The Commentator's View on the Football Daily. I'm Alistair Bruce Ball. I'm John Murray.

And I'm Ian Dennis. And Friday's On the Football Daily means one thing. It's time for the Commentator's View episode. Join us every Friday as we look ahead to the weekend's football action with a few untold stories along the way. A wasp flew into my mouth while I was talking and I panicked.

The Commentator's View only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily podcast, the EuroLeagues with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds. I want to talk now about one of the great coaches of European football who passed away last week at the age of 82, Leo Beinhacker, who's one of those people who I think if you're like a real massive fan of European football you might know a little bit about him, but there's so much to learn. I feel like I've learned loads over the course of the last few days about his incredible career. He led Trinidad and Tobago to their first ever major tournament, he led Poland to their first ever

European Championships, He had two spells in charge of Real Madrid, two spells in charge of Ajax, winning three league titles in Spain, three league titles in the Netherlands. So we've got Julian Aron, Mina Rizuki, Guillaume Balaguey all with us. Delighted to say that our friend Marcel van der Kran is with us as well. Good evening Marcel. Good evening guys. So much to talk about with Leo Beinhacker, but just tell us how has the Netherlands been remembering him over the course of the last week? Oh well the fact that his family paid such big tribute to all the fans for what was happening

in the stadiums all over the Netherlands said everything really. I think the last few years of his life were very quiet. He was a bit of a recluse, but it was actually the opposite of everything. He'd been before that in all those decades of great, great coaching of so many teams, nations all over the world. Marcel, there are lots of great quotes that we could read, but do you know which one I'm going to do? It is amazing. It's probably

the best quote I've ever read on the radio and that's quite a big thing to say. You know it's not my first week this. So he didn't have a great relationship with with Johan Cruyff and Johan Cruyff once kind of sort of talked about Bane Hacker's I don't use the word failed but not particularly impressive playing career and Bane Hacker's, I don't use the word failed, but not particularly impressive playing career. And Bane Hacker's response was, yes, but you can be a very good milkman without ever having been a cow. Yeah, yeah. And funny enough, him and he and Kroijve clashed more often in their careers. And Benacker was the coach of Ajax when Cruyff was still to become a coach, but he just retired. And Cruyff was watching in the stadium at Ajax. And halfway through the game of Ajax, he wasn't happy with what he was seeing.

And Cruyff was a really, really icon at Ajax, of course. And had just come back from Spain as well. And he just descended from the stands, joined Leo Biennacher on the bench in the dugout, and started coaching the team and telling Biennacher what was wrong in the play-style in the middle of a league game. And it was the most embarrassing thing in Biennacher's career. And when he looked back on that a few years later, Binaka says,

I should have knocked his bloody head off. But he was famous for other great quotes as well. When he was in his second spell at Ajax as a coach, he wasn't happy with the attitude and professionalism of the players in the 90s and he called those players from the fatty chips generation and it's a quote which has gone to every player ever since for decades when they're not professional enough everybody says oh you're from you're another one from the chips generation and when he took Trini D'Atten Tobago to the World to the World Cup in 2006, he went on this interview live and they said, what's it like taking Trini Dutton-Tobago to the World Cup? What have you done?

He said, well, we're going to make a great tournament there, but it's like I'm going with Cornwall to the World Cup. The fans of Trini Dutton-Tobago didn't like it and in one stage threw bricks at him and stones on the training pitch. Well if they'd been to Cornwall they would have taken it as quite a compliment I think to be honest. Yeah but I think you mentioned it because there's no real football team and no top players coming from there. And when Feyenoord, I'll give you one more,

when Feyenoord played Lazio and the reception there and the way they were treated in Italy wasn't very nice, he did his press conference as well. He said, when they come back for the return leg, we're going to put the entire board of Lazio in the stables of an animal farm where they will teach them some manners. He was always coming out with great lines.

I think what's really interesting here, Guillaume, is we've had from Marcel some of the great stories around his character, but also in terms of what you do when you're in charge of the very best. One of the obituaries this week described Lea Beinhacker as, quote, the man who revived Real Madrid. Yes, because, but I want to take it further. Yeah, he made a winning machine and he had the great mixture of players that were already at the peak, like Hugo Sánchez or Juanito Santillana and then got the so-called the Quinta del Buitre, the Vultures cohort, which included Manolo Sanchez, Chendo, Michel, Martín Vázquez and of course Butragueño. So he mixed that very well with a lot

of authority that was held by his deep voice, always smoking, big glasses. There was a look about teacher, about him, director of orchestra, if you like. And he had a very close relationship with the players as well, to the point that they will do everything for him. So yes, he did all that for Real Madrid. They won. But as I said, he just made us realize that there was another way of playing. I'm talking about the 80s. In the 80s, it was all about the Spanish fury. It was about physical. Clemente, the Atleti club teams of the time. And with him, we realised, actually, you can pass the ball. You don't need to give the ball away. You need to go for second balls. So it was a transformation

that was continued by Johan and Pep and everybody else. And Marcel, just to finish on Leo Beinhacker, we were looking through some of the civilian awards that he has won in different nations, which I always think is a fascinating thing to do because you really learn about somebody's kind of cultural significance. So he was awarded what's called the Chaconia medal gold class in Trinidad and Tobago. And he also got the Order of Polonia Restituta in Poland. And if you look through the sporting winners of those two awards, he is the only person, the only athlete not from Trinidad and Tobago to win it in Trinidad and Tobago and the only football coach from outside Poland to win that award in Poland, if that makes sense. I think quite a lot of the story could be told almost by that, couldn't it? Yes, exactly. He was a very warm guy and all the football innovation is right

what he brought into football. but there is one aspect which every player who played for him in all those four decades will tell you. He walked on the pitch and he came around you put with that arm around your shoulder and just said a few nice words how's the family, how's things, and he just knew how to motivate a player brilliantly. And that is also a bit of a class of a real top coach, in my opinion, apart from all the innovation and tactics and everything we see these days, laptops. Binaka just knew it and he had it in his fingers to get the biggest players, whether it was Hugo Sanchez or whoever at Real Madrid, to get them playing for him.

Yeah, well said Marcel. Lovely to talk to you as always. Thank you. Cheers guys. That's Marcel van der Kran on the life and times of Leo Beinhacker who passed away last week. An incredible career and God, I'm just looking through some of the winners of these awards that he won as well, it's an incredible list. This probably sums it up just from kind of a geographical international point of view that the award he won the Order of Polonia Restituta, also won by the likes of Zbigniew Boniek, who for anybody, perhaps younger listeners might not know, the most amazing Polish footballer

like Lewandowski plus. Both Zbigniew Boniek and Robert Lewandowski have won the same award as have Fidel Castro and Dwight D Eisenhower so it goes throughout the whole the whole gamut of all kinds of political and sporting life and everything and Leo Behnhakar has won that one in Poland and let's go from Don Leo to Don Carlo I think you know you know, pretty obvious now, isn't it? Carlo Ancelotti's time at Real Madrid is coming to an end. He's won his third, fourth and fifth European Cups as a manager there. You don't even need to tell, he won it famously twice as a player, twice more as a manager with AC Milan. You would think, Guillaume, that his competitors

would be happy to see the back of him, but from what you've been telling us this week, it's quite the opposite. There is something that Carlo Ancelotti carries with him and is a venhaka kind of same trait. He respects the rivals. If you notice in the last few games, and I bet he'll do that with Flick as well in the cup final or in the league maybe after. The message, the one talking with that hook at the end of the game is Carlo and the IA of the other manager. And the long, whatever he's saying, it takes a while to say. So maybe thanking them for what they're all doing in these press conferences before the

games. You know, Ernesto Valverde saying, if they treat Carlo like this, how are they going to treat me or any of us? The man has won everything, but already we all know that he's going to leave. He didn't say that, but it's, it's the kind of messages that, that are coming in press conference because we all think that that's the end of it for, for Carlo. Not the end of it. He's, He's going to Brazil, possibly to manage Brazil. Not too bad. But certainly as a coach manager and everybody wants to say the bit of how much they enjoy

playing against him. And the thing, Jules, which links all of this together is universally popular managers. And I'm just going to put the asterisk again with neutrals because I would say, and obviously time is what it is and it changes opinions. To me, Brian Clough is a universally loved manager. Leeds United fans might not agree with that. So who is it in your countries?

Who would be the one who almost everybody loves apart from those who might have, for want of a better phrase, suffered at their hands? That's a good question, you know, because I don't think, I really don't think, one, because I don't have the answer to your questions, two, because... What do you mean? I really, no, I mean, I need to think a little bit longer and I just don't have it right now. I don't think it's that fragrant though.

The French are not to love. As you know, Mina. I cannot hear you, I cannot hear you. I'm going through a tunnel, it's cutting off, it's cutting off. But I do think that... Sorry, you've only had 52 minutes to think about it. Do you know what? I forgot that, it was in the WhatsApp group.

But you came up with a really good one for... You did come up with a good Italian one, so that should be yours. You name him. Which one did I mention again? Ranieri. Claudio Ranieri, of course. Here you go, Ranieri. Everybody loves Claudio. There's nobody I know that doesn't like Claudio. Here you go. Great answer. Great question, great answer. Perfect answer.

See you next week. I was going to say Mina, but I'm going to give Mina a moment. No, my answer was going to be Emanuele Pellegrini. Oh, interesting. Really? I don't know, maybe because I just love him so much. So I would have thought that everyone loves this guy because he's just so sweet. Is he? I know some of his former players didn't really like him at the time I'll tell you why

guys the manager guys said that they would run quite so I know he's not universally loved maybe very not ran any but everyone loves Italian I don't really do stories because I don't really have many and you guys have got loads, but just on Manuel Pellegrini, I do remember that quite often in sort of pre-season, we'll go to these sort of Premier League media days, which basically means you turn up and you can interview a couple of players

and you're in one of those big indoor football halls and they're basically going round all of the TV broadcasters, doing all of the poses that you'll see them do throughout the course of a season. And someone went up to Manuel Pellegrini and they're like, okay, Manuel, so what we want you to do is just sort of walk three yards forward, punch the air and give us a big smile. And the look he gave this person is like nothing I've ever seen.

Safe to say when I later saw that appear on television he was not punching the air or smiling, he just folded his arms and stood there. I've got another quick one on that. Go on. We come to do an interview with him for a show at Ligatv called Talking Football and normally it's an hour chat. So I walk into the room. We set it all up.

He comes in and says, I said, what a luxury to have you for half an hour. I'm sorry. What a luxury to have you for an hour. Says, no, it's not going to be an hour. But we've got a show to do and it's an hour long. No, 20 minutes. I don't like, but if you continue talking, you know the time is going.

So Amina, you've got the chance to say another manager. Yeah, I think. You've destroyed my joy. It's another Pellegrini, the one from Argentina, you know, like a different one. Yeah. Right, I think we can end it there. Thank you to Guillaume Balagué,

Mena Rizuki and Julian Laron for joining us on the EuroLeagues on the Football Daily podcast. And as always, thank you so much for listening. This is the football story of the century. It's pandemonium, it's ecstasy. It's an authoritarian regime. For the past 15 years English football has been dominated by Manchester City. Eight Premier League titles, six league cups, three FA Cups, one Champions League.

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