Football Daily - Euro Leagues: UCL Semis set & Ashley Cole on coaching

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

James Gregg is joined by Julien Laurens, Guillem Balague and Rafa Honigstein on this week’s Euro Leagues. The team reflect on all the Champions League quarter-final action, including the seven-goal thriller which saw Bayern knock out Real Madrid. Do Kompany’s Bayern team have any weaknesses and if so, could it be Manual Neuer? And should Alvaro Arbeloa be worried at Real Madrid? Could he survive a trophyless season?Then, the team discuss Atletico Madrid knocking out Barcelona! Is Simeone destined to win his and Atleti’s first Champions League? And how might they cause Arsenal problems in the semi-final?We hear all about the first woman to manage a men’s side in Europe’s Top 5 Leagues – Marie-Louise Eta has taken over at Union Berlin until the end of the season. And finally, Ashley Cole tells BBC Sport’s Nizaar Kinsella all about his start to life at Serie B side Cesena, and why he made the move to Italy for his first head coach role.Timecodes: 02:08 Bayern’s brilliant attackers, & is Neuer a weak point? 12:34 Real Madrid going trophyless, & will Arbeloa survive? 23:12 Barca knocked out by Atletico Madrid to set up Arsenal semi 33:03 Union Berlin appoint first-ever female head coach in Top 5 Leagues 40:10 Ashley Cole speaks about taking over Serie B’s Cesena

On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleaks. Listen on the BBC Sounds. Hello and welcome to the EuroLeaks on the Football Daily podcast. So much to get into this week. We'll be dissecting Wednesday's seven-goal thriller, where Bayern knocked out Rail Madrid to set up a semi-against PSG. We'll chat Athlete and Simeone too as well after they've knocked out Barcelona. They'll take on Arsenal in their semi-final.

Then we're going to hear all about Marie-Louise Etta, pointed this week as the interim head coach at Union Berlin, making her the first ever woman to manage a men's side in Europe's top five leagues. And we're going to hear from Ashley Cole, who's been speaking to BBC Sport about his new role as head coach of Chezena in Serie B. All of that on the way in the company of Julianne Lawrence, Guillem Ballagay and Raffer Ongstein. Hello, guys. Thanks for having me,

and no, I haven't got an initiation song prepared. Oh, well, come on. your karaoke song when you go out for karaoke, what's your main song? Let me just give you a reference. I sang, if I remember correctly, a bad bonny song.

I think it was an area from Raffi, Puccini area. I think Julian sang Lamour La Plash by Niagara, so you know, you can pick. Oh my goodness. Let me have a think, all right? Don't let me leave this podcast. No pressure.

Don't let me leave this podcast without doing something. Let's talk all things football then. We've got to start with that incredible game last night. We'll come on to Arbaloa and Rail Madrid in more depth in just a moment. But we'll start with Bayern. They look a real force, don't they at the moment? A stellar performance from Bayern's attacking players, particularly.

Philip Larm wrote in his athletic column just before the match. Someone like Manuel Noyer doesn't come along every day. He ranks among the very greatest in football history alongside Lienel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo. Now Raffer, you were there last night. That doesn't quite ring true with the fast start, does it? I mean, it wasn't his greatest game, I think, is fair to say. And it was so interesting to see because it really had a fact on a team. I mean, they came back quickly.

But throughout the first half, even as late as I would say, the 60th or 70th minute, they were a little bit more reluctant than usual to involve Moyer in the buildup. And that was because that bit of insecurity, bit of sort of second guessing had crept into the game. And that was really hard for the defenders to deal with. Because usually, yes, he makes the odd mistake, but not after 33 seconds against Real Madrid in the quarterfinal at home. So it took the team a little bit to understand kind of this new reality,

at least for this particular game. And it made Byns build up a little bit more difficult when Ramadrid did press. They didn't press very often. When they did, it looked really dangerous. because of those issues. But of course, in the end, that game will not be remembered for Manila Neuer's mistakes. We'll be remembered for the seven goals, for the kind of seesaw, Titanic Battle that we had. And, of course, the Red Card and so on.

But just in terms of pure drama and excitement, at a place that doesn't always get so excited about football, because they're kind of used to winning. It's up there with, I think, with the five biggest games. in Bayern history at least at the Elianzorin in the last 20 years or so since it was built a night that would be remembered forever because it was Real Madrid because of the way he went and because of that fantastic final sentence to that story provided by Michael O'Leese. I mean to finish off a game and a tie what better motion what better attacking move can you can you do? And there's a lovely commentary on German television who said Michael Elyse is

picked up the ball. He doesn't want to go to the corner flag. He wants to go for goal. And that was just amazing. Really. Because usually you wouldn't really see that kind of action in the last 10 seconds or so because the smarter play, if you will, would be just to wind down the clock. Let me take your step back and talk about the spectacle. Because in the last week, I've been immersed in the Baye and Munich world, thanks to Rafael Honakstein, who first after the game at the Santiago Bernabe invited me to that amazing thing that happens in a central hotel when buy and play away, and sponsors are invited, VIP are invited, fans, and they mix with the players, literally they're mixed, the players walk around the tables, and you're supposed to, what is it, everything is on the record until the CEO makes

the speech, and after that, off the record, whatever happens, there stays there. So that was the first one. And then, of course, I've been talking for different reasons with people that Rafi introduced me to. And I went to the game yesterday as a fan and, you know, throw away the computers, the phones. And I sensed, first of all, such an awe and I would say even admiration, certainly respect from Bayeemunic fans towards Real Madrid. You even got Olejone's saying that Real Madrid is bigger than Bayern Munich, which is something big to say. but yes the atmosphere was brilliant from minute one until the end it was noisy people stood up so this is the most comfortable a business area where they put you sofas they don't put you like chairs the food was incredible it's a comfortable stadium to go to you can walk through the corridors

but unlike say the NBA nobody's in the corridors while the game is on everybody's focus at what's happening and the motions run very very high on my right and left and front and and back. And of course, you could follow the goal and their amazing TIFO with somebody holding a ball. And what was the saying? It's in our hands. It's in our hands. It's all in our hands. It was just as a spectacle, incredible place to do it with, surrounded by people that didn't hate the rivals, didn't insult them, just worry no. And of course, when that first goal comes in, it's like, taking a big breath. And after that, everybody went on a roll of emotions.

It was just fantastic. The game had absolutely everything. But you have to give the fans the ability to just make the whole thing even better. Jules, what did you make of it? Because you would have known that the opponents of PSG were coming from that particular match. And I bet you couldn't believe how, ding-dong it was, you know, backwards and forwards

that particular match last night. Yeah, especially the first half. I mean, we saw in the first leg and there was no reason why this second leg would have been different anyway because he was still very much in the balance even if Bayern were favourite. I think the red card obviously changes it all.

I think Bramadry did a lot of really good things in there. I think maybe Bayern were not as intense and not as spectacular maybe as what they did, especially in the first half at the Bernabeu last week. But overall, it was, yeah, it was two great teams with slightly different style, just going at each other all the time. The second half was a bit more control and it had to be anyway. But that front three of Bayern is just so, so good, right?

Even when Louis Diaz doesn't have the best of his games, even though Lisa, to some extent, I thought Falun Mendi defended quite well on him, to be fair, but then still, your front three score a goal each. And then they are a level this season in terms of goals and a season. Performance is overall, but also in pressing and counterpressing, where they don't have the ball to such an exceptional level. I don't mean to ask you to put a negative spin on things here, Raffa, because when they have a performance like that last night,

they've made it into the last four of the Champions League, it seems a strange question for me to ask here. But do they have any weaknesses? Well, first of all, I think, just to pick on something that Julian said, Josio Kimich agreed he said it wasn't our best game. We had to kind of go through our struggles, and then company talked to them at halftime and said, stay calm, just keep the ball, switch it around a bit better, and the chances will come.

And that's exactly what happened. I mean, Real Madrid defended the last 20 minutes. They were so deep. And Bayern just needed a bit of patience, and of course having the extra man helped as well. But you felt that the longer the game was going on, buying on, Bayern had more and more control. They have weaknesses, of course, because the system is very high risk. They try to press high.

Then they try to win back the ball in counter-pressing. and if you play through them, and if you have players like Real Madrid have, not many teams have up front, they are to a point, you cannot defend them in those spaces. You might defend them if you play six in the back in a row and condense the space,

but if you leave spaces for these players, it's almost inevitable that they will create chances. But that is the price you pay for the dominance. The dominance cannot exist without you being very far away from your own goal. Otherwise, you cannot dominate in the opposition, half so you take that risk and so far I would say if you compared to last season when Inter knocked them out at the same stage I think by and have it

didn't look at always like last night but I think on the whole in the whole season they have more control and they've been able to have a bit more balance and it's not as open as it used to be last year when they played man-vue man-marking the whole time now I think there's more balance but of course if you have players like Mbapé or Vinnie Jr. and P.S.J. have similar profile players up front. They're going to create problems. But I think what saves Bayern and what makes them superior to many sides is the structure. They can rely on the structure. They don't have an Mbap. I don't think anyone has an Mbapé. I think he is the best player in the world right now.

And it doesn't matter to me if he wins the World Cup or not. If he doesn't win the Champions League, I think in terms of pure talent as a footballer, I don't see. anyone else in the world right now that reaches him. PSJ are very similar though in their qualities, but Biden is more about the collective. Of course they have O'Leese. Of course, Louis Diaz is a great player. Kane is a great player.

But they don't rely on these players to be individualist. They try to build a platform for chances to almost kind of be created methodically and logically. And that's how they suffocate most teams. But dominance can be confusing when you just look in it as a lot of, neutral and don't go into detail on the game and I think most people would agree that by a minute you deserve to go through.

But I can tell you that having been at both games, there were not that much difference with both sides and you can put a very clear argument that Real Madrid should have gone through from the moment that you think that Noia was MVP on the first leg for instance and looking just at the second, the fact that Ramadi defended deep

and even deeper especially after Kamaminga got sent off, doesn't mean that they didn't create chances. They had one bigger chance, more bigger chance than Bayan. Two and three was the expected goals where Ramadip were ahead as well. And it could have just gone if he wasn't for Noya, that's safe to Mbap. It could have been that Ramadi goes through. And then at some point we can talk about the Kamabinga sending off,

which doesn't define the tie and certainly is not the reason for Ramadi to be knocked out. But two of the goals, the big goals came after he got sent off. And I will just say one thing. Refere didn't know Camavinga had one yellow. If he did, he wouldn't have given a second yellow. UEFA don't like players being sent off just for that thing of carrying the ball away for a few meters when he wasn't really stopping a counter-attack or anything, just slowing things down a little bit.

And in fact, when he gives him the yellow, the second yellow, he turns around and he's just by a Munich players that remind him that he had one already, so that's, oh, yeah, okay, right, that's a red. Spoil things a little bit. But I felt, and Michael Ulysses said that after the game, that Bayern already were on the app, and perhaps would have taken the game, maybe at extra time, he would have given us half an hour more,

but there, the referee, I think he made a big mistake. Let's talk Real then. They're looking at potentially finishing trophy list this season, on the game, something that they've not done much at all just the fifth time this century, if that is the case, out the Champions League and the domestic cups, and now nine points behind Barcelona and the league.

Is it hard, Guilla, to imagine Abaloa actually surviving this, because I can't think of many Rail Madrid managers who would get that pass. Let's start with the President of Real Madrid going to the changing rooms after the games and saying, to wear the shirt of Real Madrid is a privilege,

but it's also responsibility and many of you have not given us that responsibility you haven't been at the level that you should be this is a story that has just come out by Ferminda La Calle, who is very well

respected journalist based in Madrid and close to Real Madrid which tells you everything you need to know if the president thinks that way it doesn't matter that actually some fans would keep Arveloa on big decisions to be taken. Who replaces Arbeloa we will see. He's got another year left in his contract.

I took a picture of him in the bus on his own looking into the horizon just thinking like that was that was the chance, that was the moment. I go into the semifinals, perhaps as they, maybe that's what he had in his head. But certainly it's hard to think of him to continue. And what's one name that has been put into the equation in the last few weeks, that's where Jules has to give us more. We heard about club. We heard, and it is somebody that certainly Florentino Perez

would like to have at Real Madrid. We heard about Pocetino. But the Shams is one that has been mentioned recently. So what do we say, Jules? Yeah, we said that he's obviously right now focusing on the World Cup, his last competition with France. But then after that, he's eager to go

straight into club management again. I mean, he's not ruling out another national team, although it's a bit difficult for the language buyer, if it's a language that he doesn't speak. But he speaks English not so much, but Italian and Spanish, because obviously he played in those two countries. He played in England as well, but for a short time. So I think, you know, I think obviously if Radh Madrid come knocking, he'd be super interested,

I'm sure. I think he's a great man-manager, for sure. Is he a bit too conservative for Real Madrid? Maybe. But in a way, I think he can also be very powerful. pragmatic and that might suit this squad maybe. So I think this is a very, very interesting one. The only thing is...

Not sure what Benny would think of that, though. Yeah, I know. I know. I mean, Killion would be very happy. Obviously, so would be too many. Fell on Mendi, maybe not so much as well. The only thing is in France, let's say, go really far in the World Cup, semi-final, final, you know, whatever. He won't be available before late July, really,

which maybe in terms of preseason and everything, I'm sure they can find a way, but it's maybe not ideal that he would not report on the first day of preseason back. That's what I was going to ask you, actually, because we talk about these managers who are getting a good reputation

during the World Cup or Euros or any major tournament during the summer, but they are instantly at a disadvantage, aren't they? And that's going to be the case for Didi Edition? Yeah, I think that's the thing. But then again, he could have one of his trusted guys coming over and getting the team to start the preseason, the fitness work, the running,

things like that. There might be a way to do it. And also, France might be out early, earlier than I'm hoping or they're hoping. And then it might be a slightly different dynamic. I don't know. But I think certainly in terms of tactics. But again, in his own style, I'm not saying this is Real Madrid that would suit Real Madrid style and expectations from the fans and from the club, etc.

But he's a wonderful coach. There's just no doubt. It's just his football is not really our cup of tea here. We discussed it a lot, especially during big tournament, especially at the last Euro's. But he's still very, very good and highly rated for Sean. I would love to see Didier Deschamps at Real Madrid. And one month into the tenure, both the fans and Florentino Paris saying,

this is not, this is not, this is not Real Madrid before. But I have a question for you. It would be a better version of what we saw yesterday, maybe. The champs can do that. I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. But I want to pick you up something that you said, Guillem.

Could it be that Frontier in Paris's words, could be interpreted not so much about the quality, but about the behavior of this Real Madrid team? Because that was the reaction in Germany. As much as there is respect and admiration and expectation of this team to be superb, there was a real sense of disappointment, and maybe even Schadenfreude,

about the reactions after the game, and how petulant they were. And I think there was a suggestion that I saw that Frantino Paris was unhappy about that sort of behavior rather than the footballing performance. He creates that behavior. You heard Jude Bellingham and Rudiger and others throwing lines like, this is amazed,

this was a shame, embarrassing, against the referee. This game should not produce that reaction unless you've been told four years now and that comes from the top that comes from Florentino Perry that referees are no helping us not just that

they are against us so with that atmosphere it's relatively easy for players to especially after the game to look for people to blame and not looking at themselves and looking at the referee so no I think he was actually

talking about the fact as James said earlier that for 16 years, it's the first time in 16 years that they don't have any chance at the league, they won't win the league, the Cup or the Champions League in two consecutive years.

That hadn't happened for 16 years. So that's big. One year is crisis. Two years is a disaster. So I think he was trying to say you haven't been at the level that we expect of you. Because they picked and chose the games.

You know, they drew against Girona, lose against Osasuna and Jettafe, and then they go and bid Manchester City. What's that about? Well, it's a culture that is not the right one. And Arbello didn't have time to change it. Chavez also tried, but was decapitated from the top either. So it's not an easy solution unless you have a personality like a seducer like Pochitino

or a strong man like the Shams. What about the wider footballing applications? I mean, you said they could have won, they could have gone through. I guess that's true. But I think if you leave yourself to be dominated through 180 minutes, possession, it's more tiring. and you cannot always rely on Mbapé and Vinny, and to an extent Bellingham, to save you. Don't they need to go back to a slightly more controlled,

dominant style with the midfield? Also with fullbacks, I thought the fullbacks are very poor throughout the tie. I think you need fullbacks that go forward that create at this level. Real Madrid don't have that at the moment. doesn't this need a bigger a bigger rethink rather than just changing the manager and it's the structure you were talking about

whatever kind of a structure one that the helps the players when the players are not at the best but six Champions League in 12 years so they're not getting that wrong it's just still the same team that won those champions leagues and can you see this team winning six Champions League in the next 12 years but it's the same essence isn't it

the best players around put together together. But I don't see this midfield, I don't see this midfield and see that these are the best midfielders in the world. There's no cross, there's no Karsimiro,

there's no Modrich in this team. That's my issue. I think the imbalance is really huge. You have three players up front who are absolutely sensational and I would say the rest is good but I think in that middle there's quality missing.

You're not convinced here, Raffer, are you? You're really not convinced. Real Madrid have set such absurd high standards that I think a lesser version of Madrid in comparison is a bit underwhelming and I feel that they haven't been as impressive over the last couple of years and that's why they've been knocked out early.

So if not, if not Didier Deschon, who is going to be my next obvious question? As I said, they're trying to convince it's not the word but they put out their club will be interesting but of course he doesn't speak Spanish Pocetino is the one that is waiting for as well he is waiting

the Pocetino himself but as per usual what is the profile so having lost the battle if you like forentino Perret to choose the previous manager and Chavez Alonso that was Jose Angelo Sanchez the number two at the club where Rhinan again and comes out

and says the same words as Raffis just said how about a structure how about doing it together how about a collective answer blah blah blah And then Rafa Venet comes or Jules Lopetegi comes or Chavi Alonso comes. Now he lost his credibility after the disaster of Chavi Alonso. So I'm not sure that Florentino Perr will go for that profile.

But there are so many things to correct, as Raffi says and Jules as well. I'll add one more before we move on. The link between, on the pitch, between Vinny and Mbapé, that's never worked. That's never. It's water and oil. They just cannot work together. Not sure how you show it that out. New rules.

We race live on BBC Sounds. Let's all right to the lights, and foot to the floor. On five live sports. On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleaves. Listen on BBC Sounds. Let's turn our attention to the other side of the draw then, if you like.

So Arsenal beat sporting 1-0 across two legs to progress to a second semi-final. In two years, they'll take on Diego, Emilio, Madrid, after they knocked out Barcelona on Tuesday. Barsa had a player sent off in both legs. Rafinia called the match a robbery. The refereeing was really bad. That was post-match. How surprising then is Barser's exit?

But also, I'm a bit torn here, gents, because it's great to see Diego Simeone putting himself back in that business end of the Champions League. We'll come on to Athletico in a second, but I can't help feeling, Guillaume, that actually it's a big opportunity miss for Basso because they've been playing so well under Hans E Flick, haven't they? Yes, with the same problems that they showed last season and not really sorted. I've seen somewhere that Barcelona in the last 10 years is the team that has got more players

in the top in the Champions League in the knockout stages of the Champions League. It was easy to see that that could happen and it happened in both legs, of course, I think out of the, what would it be, 190 minutes played 70, with 10 men only. It's the decision that Hansi Flick has decided to manage a club. He wants risk, first of all. He thinks the rewards are huge.

And I don't blame either the sending off the bad defending or the high line for Barcelona missing that opportunity that you're talking about. by the way, is the youngest side ever in the quarter-finals of the Champions League, 24.4 years. So they will be there for a few years, I think, still, especially if Lamine continues like this.

I blame the club. Every year they take in value out of that squad. Every year I've got the bench, which is worse. A couple of injuries didn't help. The young, Gabi's recovering, Rafini especially, after what he'd done last season. But having done so well in the first half, where they run, the socks,

off and they scared Aletico Madrid in their own ground. In the second half, they collapsed. They just didn't have the energy. They didn't have solutions. And this is perhaps the biggest mistake of the whole tie to bring on Lewandowski and Rushford. Okay, Fermin had to come off after his injury. But Ferran Torres was doing really well.

And them two just didn't add anything at all. It's the squad, I think, which hasn't helped Barcelona to go any further. And it's a shame because, you know, raise your hands who enjoys watching Barcelona. That's three of us. Raffi hasn't. There's only three out of four. Okay, I'm going to ask a question to one person who did put their hand up and one person who didn't. What about watching Athlete?

Because there's that conception, isn't there? Or perhaps even a misconception now. That watching Atletico can be quite difficult because they expect of a Diego Simioni team to be quite attritional, quite stodgy at the back, quite robust. But this seems, and tell me what you think, Jules and Raffa,

this seems to be a bit of a different Athletico Madrid site, doesn't it? Yeah, I think they've evolved a bit, but they still had 29% of the ball in that Barca game. And to be honest, Barca had enough chances to go and qualify and win the tie. So, yeah, I think it's not the kind of packing of the burst that we saw 10 years ago,

say, I think Simone himself has evolved. I think his players are more suited to playing a bit more than the team that are the squad that he had maybe 10 years ago. I mean, I'm very happy. I don't mind so much about Simone, even the rest of the squad. I think Luke Mann has had an incredible impact

since he arrived in January. And by the way, he only cost $35 million. At a time where we look at those high prices for those big stars, etc., look at what that move is done for this team. But I'm super happy for Anton Greisman, who's coming near the end now of his.

time, not just Athlete, but also in Europe before going to MLS. But when you see still the kind of performance they can put in a quarterfinal or second leg of the Champions League like on Tuesday night with everything that he could do, and it was not perfect, but from the second assist on the goal, obviously, but every time that he could ease the pressure on Athlete, beat the press from Barcelona, to see somebody like him at 35 with such an incredible flair and touch, I think it's beautiful. The problem is we don't really make them anymore like Greisman anywhere. just in France, but also in Spain and places like that are not enough, certainly.

So it was still beautiful to see him at that level, and now to know that he's got at least two more games in the Champions League and maybe a third one, obviously, before he leaves, to go to different cultures and countries. But I thought to see Grisman in that kind of form was wonderful. I mean, ironically, the only clean sheet they've kept in Europe all season came at the first leg in Barcelona. So this is not a defensive team anymore. The identity is a thing is a bit of watered down.

It makes them much more exciting and interesting to watch, but it makes them also easier to beat. And I am not sure they have what they have got what it takes to go all the way, but I think that can cause an Arsenal that's looking as if they run out of steam a little bit and have problems creating chances themselves. I think they're going to make it difficult for them and make it really, really tough game. But Atletico, because they are not the Atlatico of 10 years ago, where they just made it almost impossible for you to score

are a lot more fun to watch and I think for a lot of neutrals maybe the sort of side with the romance of Simeone and Griesman and so on where they said actually would be quite cool if they made the final. You can tell that Jules and Raffey watch Spanish football and that many, many more don't

because that's absolutely right. Aletigo Madrid have moved away long time ago already when they won the league in 22 they were a different analytical Madrid. So we're talking about an interesting creative tension that's happening at the club. So Apollo, the investment fund, one of the biggest in the world,

have come in with the idea of enjoying good football. So under their guidance, even though they're only taking over the main shareholders now, I think it's 55% of the shares. But they've been behind the scenes for a few years. And the new director of football, Matthew Le Maine, they've been trying to bring players like Alex Baena, Julian Alvarez, of quality.

And Simeone has got an essence which is very difficult to abandon. So when things get really tight, you know what Aletica Madre are going to do. But mostly he's got to project something else. So the problem is God. I remember when he went to see Pebordiola about 10 years ago. At the end of training, they went for dinner. And Simeone said, I love what you do. I absolutely adore what you do.

do, I will never do that. That's not me. And that still is in his head, which means that I'm not sure he knows her to make the team attack better. Organized attack is not something that he puts too much emphasis on. Meanwhile, it gets given,

in this magnificent scenario, he gets given fantastic players. So there's still that thing of not getting to the Aletico Madrid that the owners won, but still Simeone giving them the chance to win titles this year. But they are 22.

22 points away from Barcelona. So he's a little bit under pressure, but this year a little bit less because of course they end the cup final on Saturday, semifinals of the Champions League too. So they take on Arsenal in that semi-final. Rafini actually was seen telling some of the Athlete fans that they'll go out in the next round.

So that was his way of kind of just, I don't know, satisfying himself last night. Arsenal kept sporting to just one shot on target last night, but they had just one shot. shot on target themselves. What kind of game are we expecting, all three of you, starting with Jules? Well, I think the contrast between the Dubai and PhD tie

and the Athletico Arsenal type would be massive. Obviously, we all know that. I think it could be quite interesting tactically because we say, you know, even if the essence of CMEA is still more be cautious first, he would have the players to plan to probably hurt Arsenal who are probably the best team out of possession in the world, although their press hasn't been as efficient lately.

their football in general hasn't been as good, as fluid, as efficient, but they're still so strong, so solid, so physical, so tough to play against, I think, for any team, really. And if they can recover a bit of the kind of football and level that they had previously in the season, like when they beat by and or when they beat, actually, Ticcan Madrid, 4-0 at home in the league phase, then I think they could also progress to the finals. So, yeah, there's one game that probably will excite us more before he's played, but I think both of them could be really.

really interesting. Raffa? Yeah, I mean, Arsenal is huge favour just as Barcelona were huge favourites against Athlete in the previous round.

So I've got a funny funny feeling that Atletical might surprise. Guillaum. It just feels like this is an opportunity for Simeone to be Simeone

and nobody will moan. Give the initiative to Arsenal. We know they've been struggling lately. That may change by the time they meet and then counter-attack them. I think there'll be a lot of that. But Simeone,

as I said, fighting with his head, said that the way to defend against Barthorna is to attack them. Well, maybe if he does a little bit, that against Arsenal, it'd be quite a balanced tie and a bit less interesting than the other one, but still something to keep an eye on. Looking forward to both of those semi-final matches when they come around, of course.

Now, we're going to turn our attention to something a little bit different. On Sunday, Union Berlin made history with the appointment of their new interim head coach, Marie-Louise Etta, who is set to become the first ever woman to manage a men's side in Europe's top five leagues. So she replaces Stefan Baumgart after a run of just two league wins in 14 matches. This calendar year leaves Union Berlin 11th. That's seven points above the relegation playoff spot. There are five matches to play in the Bundesliga.

Bayern Munich head coach, Vincent Company, was speaking earlier on this week about Etta's appointment. I'm actually really happy. You know, it's easy to minimize and say, yes, she's just a coach like everybody else. And of course, I think that's how we have to treat her as colleagues. But in the end, it's something special. And it's something that behind it opens a lot of opportunity to little girls who are now maybe playing football and thinking, hey, maybe I can coach anywhere. I can make a real career in this game and be successful like what I'm seeing on TV.

and I think those stories that are really important. This isn't a story that's kind of come out of nowhere out of the blue. For those who've been paying attention, you know, she's made history before, hasn't she, Raffett, as the Bundesliga's first female assistant coach.

That was, what, a couple of years ago now, coached Union's under 19's team. She's only 34 as well. So there is plenty of scope for her to have a great career. So what are your views on it and how has it gone down in Germany this? I mean, it's hard to think, to generalize because you have some of the very unsavory, very dinosaur misogynist reactions

on social media that are so loud that they almost drown out the normal reaction if you were but the normal reaction has been fine. I mean, that's people have welcomed it. Others have said let's not make too much a deal of it just see if she can coach. She if she can do a good job but I think Union Berlin is a good club for this as you said they've done it before with her as assistant coach they've broke the mold they have a reputation for doing things a little bit differently I think their fan base will be fairly open-minded and I think it's also a good opportunity because in terms of the table as you said they are in danger but I think there's enough teams behind them that have bigger problems so it's probably going to be a pretty soft landing for them and I don't

think it's going to be a long-term solution either. They are talking to other coaches. They will of course look at what she can do. If a team suddenly starts performing really well, then she will get an opportunity, I think, to make this permanent. We have a permanent coach in Bundesliga 2, a female coach. So there is, the taboo has been broken.

But I think most people see it as a thing that shouldn't even be getting that much special attention. and kind of look beyond the biology and the sex and look at what she can do on the coaching bench. But for that to happen, the system has to change. So it's a step for sure, but the step between that and more women becoming head coaches or managers is huge. And if you don't mind me personalising just briefly.

I'm the chairman of a football club in the 9th Division in England, and my dream is to have a good female coach to run the men's first team. But every time you propose that to a female coach, they say, and then what? It's not just somebody coming out with that idea, is what is the path for me to then become professional? And there isn't.

This is in England. I don't know so much in Germany, but certainly in Spain as well. The other thing I wanted to say, I'm very much looking forward to have women in key positions in football, including being managers. I'm just reading a book,

nothing to do with football, but before women were admitted at the universities, universities largely reflected male priorities and viewpoints. And once women entered, they started changing gender studies, subjects like family life, care work, social inequity, started gaining attention, research broaden, and generally knowledge became less narrow and reflecting more society. And I've got the impression that if women were more present in football in those positions, we could see a different way of playing. Why not? But we're such a long way from that. To be fair, we had Corin Diac in France in 2014,

who obviously coached in the second division at Clermont, but it was the first time we had in one of the two biggest leagues, a women coaching the men. And he went really well. She said three years. I think they finished 8th, 10th and 11th or something like that. so the job was to keep them up and she did more than that.

She did better than that. Everything from what she did on the page in the relationship with the squad, all of that, it was just all so positive. And I thought, okay, this is it now. She left in 2017, but from now on, not just in France, but surely in those other big leagues in the big countries, we will see others doing the same

and maybe I was a bit naive or maybe the world was just not ready or Europe was not just ready or the world of football was just not ready then to have another diac So I'm glad this is happening. Is this again, can we look at it and think like, okay, let's hope that this kickstart this more than where we threw in 2014, 2017 in France. I hope so because I would love everything that the boss just said to happen to. Big first game for her in charge, isn't it, Rafa? Again, second from bottom, Wolfsburg on Saturday.

Wolfsburg desperate for points, so that's a really big start. Yeah, it is. In Vosable guy in freefall, you know, the winners of 2009 look as if they go into Bundesliga 2, lots of investments behind him and this is the kind of game that if she wins, I think, Uniona are all but safe, so a big opportunity for her. Hopefully also a bit of patience. That's something that company mentioned that, you know, you said it's great that she's there, but hopefully she'll also get a bit of realistic expectations of how quickly you can

do things and so on as a new coach. and just to correct myself, I spoke about Bundessega 2, but I meant, of course, Bundesliga 3 with Sabrina Vitmann at Ingolstadt. She's been there for a couple of years and is a great coach who is seen as a real up-and-coming coach full stop and no one really talks about her being, about her being a woman that much anymore. So I think it can go quite quickly,

but as Geyem has said, of course, the overall numbers are still very, very bleak for women in men's football. So that's one to keep your eye out on then for seven. Saturday, Union Berlin taking on Wolfsburg in the Bundes League, Marie-Louise Etters. First game in charge. Right, we're going to finish the Euroleagues with this then, talking of another managerial appointment. Ashley Cole was appointed as manager of the Syria B-side Chersena, his first head coach role. He's been speaking to BBC Sports, Nizar Kinsella, about his decision to manage abroad. It's quite interesting this.

All about the expectations of the club as we approach the end of this coming. season. The aim is to stay in the playoffs. The aim is to get to Sera, but we've got to understand if we got to Sereir now, in my opinion, we are not ready. So we're not going to give up. We need to push and the players have to believe. But, you know, we need to just find a better way of playing. A style without the fans want to believe in. So I'm trying to get a picture of like what you were like before this opportunity came. Were you like itching for a head coach role and like were you applying for jobs? But you're you? CV, LinkedIn, all that stuff.

Yeah, I'm talking about LinkedIn. No, I was getting kind of discouraged by some opportunities or lack of opportunities. Some clubs I spoke to, you know, they like to throw the, you don't have experience.

And I'm like, well, I get what you're saying. I agree with you, but am I going to get experience? Like, you know, you've got to trust me as a coach. so there is a massive trust element an issue with that because as we said you couldn't have had much more experience

in terms of being a number two also your England career like speaks for itself and your playing career so you're like what more can I add to this without being able to be. This is why I'm here it's a great place to be it's a great place to start

I think I'm not saying I was one of the first players to leave England and go and play abroad there was many, many, obviously, that went before me, but I took a leap of faith to come and move to Italy and play in Serea. And I've loved that the owners who have kind of lived similar background to me, hardworking, graft, and they also needed someone to believe in them

and give them a chance. And that's where they, you know, now they got to a real high level of work ethic and a place where they should be proud of how. how they've succeeded and they've gave me the opportunity. So we had a lot in common in terms of that of breaking down doors and barriers. And I don't think there's too many certainly black English coaches working in Italy. So again, massive leap of faith from them and, you know, so I'm very proud to be here. And what about in terms of moving to Italy as well?

Do you, because English coaches might be looking at you and thinking, no, maybe I should give it, not just Italy, but anywhere in Europe, you know. Yeah, well, I would just go, if you're not getting an opportunity in England, why not think about a different country? You know, I think it's going to make you grow as a person, as a coach, as a manager. You learn different cultures, a different way of living, different tactical insights from, you know, going up against different managers. There's always going to make you a better coach or a better manager.

So that's Ashley Cole, the new Chazana manager with Nizar Kinsella. You can hear more from that interview on the BBC Sports. website. It's a growing trend, isn't it, of British managers going abroad for opportunities, Raffa? Yeah, and I think it's great. I think especially if you're a former player who doesn't need the money, who just wants to do it, to learn, and to, you know, start your career and get the experience to go abroad, widen your horizons. I think English football can really benefit from that. I have a lot of time for Ashley Cole. He was a nightmare as a journalist to deal with as a player because he was just totally not interested talking to the press but anyone who has met

him in a professional capacity on the playing side or people work with him have have great respect for him and I think he could be a real talent I mean we don't know he might not know how it goes until you're actually there and you know test yourself but I think the fact that he's willing to do that is is to be commended I've got mixed feelings about actually called when he talks about leap of faith you don't need to have a leap of faith you need to be prepared and on one hand he's doing it the right way i mean being the assistant manager to frank lampar to lee casley went runy at youth level as well he's been coaching fine but despite the fact of having an italian wife and having been at roma for two years his italian is not good and to actually

go to Italy this happens a lot with this generation of players they actually call generation that they think they can do

absolutely anything just because they were big and I think there is two or three steps before getting there and I hope

that he doesn't get burned out it's brave that he does it but you have to really prepare to actually succeed at it

Jules? Yeah, it's been a bit tough for him in terms of result and Guillem is right with the language

and I read another interview with him recently where he said the biggest problem has been the language and it was always going to be anyway. And sometimes I think even young coaches,

not just Ashley, maybe not him, but in general I think underestimate a little bit the power of that communication. I know it sounds obvious, but I promise you when you're in here and when you really want to work as a coach to what Giam just said, I think you're sometimes ready to accept anything

and that communication is so important, especially I would say at lower league level when the players are maybe not as good. as the kind of player that Ashley Cole was or the ones that he played with or even probably some of them that he coached when he was an assistant coach before in England.

And I think if you don't have that communication, even through a translator or even through an assistant, it's not easy, trust me. And I think this is also another problem that he will have to overcome if he wants to be successful in Italy. Plus the weather and the food is always better.

So there you go. So that's one reason that British coaches should be looking abroad. Gentlemen, thank you very much indeed. Thanks to Jules, Kiem and Raffa. And as always, thanks so much to you for listening. And remember, if you haven't already, you can subscribe to the Football Daily Feed for a daily dose of footballing goodness on BBC South.

Hello, I'm Tyler West and I'm Alfie Watts. And this is The Detour, the official companion podcast to race across the world. This is the post-episode checkpoint where you'll hear the latest chat around each episode from us and our race superfan special guests. Plus, I'll be joined each week by a resident travel expert, Alfie. That's you, ma'am. I'll be revealing my optimal way to travel through each leg, including visits to all of those unmissable detours along the way.

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