Football Daily - Euro Leagues: Vinicius' brilliance overshadowed by racism allegations

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

Mark Chapman is joined by Guillem Balague, James Horncastle, Julien Laurens and Mina Rzouki.The panel discuss the fallout from Real Madrid's 1-0 win over Benfica in the Champions League - with goalscorer Vinicius Junior accusing Benfica's Gianluca Prestianni of racist abuse. FC Thun are on course for their first ever Swiss league title, manager Mauro Lustrinelli joins the show and they wrap up the rest of the week's Champions League action with big first-leg defeats for Italian giants Inter and Juventus.TIMECODES 00:16 - Vinicius Jr accuses Benfica's Gianluca Prestianni of racist abuse 25:43 - FC Thun manager Mauro Lustrinelli on his side being top of the Swiss league 35:48 - Why are Italian clubs struggling in Europe?

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On the Football Daily podcast, the Euroleaks. Listen on the BBC Sounds. Welcome to the Euroleaks. Joining us this week, The Athletics James Horncastle, ESPN Julian Laurent and Mina Rizuki. So plenty for us to get into, but we will start with what happened

with Vincius Jr. reporting racist abuse from Jan Luca Prestiani. Prestiani has denied that, saying, I want to clarify that at no No time did I direct racist insults to Vincius Jr. who regrettably misunderstood what he thought he heard. I was never racist with anyone and I regret the threats I received from Rail Madrid players. Benfica themselves have since come out and said, given the distance between players on the pitch, the Royal Madrid players could not have heard what they claimed to have heard.

Prestiani's conduct in the service of the club has always been guided by respect for opponents, institutions and the principles that define Benfica's identity. The club regrets the defamation campaign of which the player has been a victim. Venetius himself said racists are above all coward. They need to put their shirts in their mouths to show how weak they are, but they have the protection of others who theoretically have an obligation to punish them. Guillaume Balaget was in the stadium and is with us for the next 10, 15 minutes. He's also written a big article, as I mentioned, earlier, Giam,

on the BBC Sport website, which, you know, you put this incident against this backdrop that, as you say in your article, during these eight years at Real Madrid, this is the 20th time that Vinicius Jr. has claimed that he has been the subject of abuse. 20 times he feels he's been on the end of racist abuse. 20 times that have been reported,

I'm pretty sure he's more than that, but when that has happened to you I think the minimum you should receive from anybody in football and that means anybody including rivals is a bit of empathy at least instead of being blamed for what happened

that was one of the very disappointing things that took place last night but if you want to go into detail of the moment where the game was stopped that will give you a little bit of clues of where everybody ended up

say 24 hours later because when the game stopped, Vinny went to the bench and in there he spoke to Embapé Mbépe said after the game that they had decided they didn't want to play anymore Arbelloa, the manager of Real Madrid, went to Vinny would do whatever you say.

Morino at that point, and these are words from Morino said that met Vinny and told him that Vemfike is not a racist club that one of the most iconic players of Benfica, if not the most, is a black player and Eusebio, and why did he have to celebrate that way? Now, he repeated that theme in three television channels and then a press conference later, linking the behavior of Venetius to the alleged racist abuse. Chouameney, in those eight minutes that football was stopped, heard from the Benfica player,

saying that Prestiani had not done a racist insult, but instead it was a homophobic one. And apparently that means a little bit less. So Arbello went back to Vinie and said, what do you want to do? And this is why Vinny in his statement later on insist on the idea that the protocol is wrong, because it was all down to him. It was all down to the victim. So, okay, he said, let's play. But I spoke to players of the record.

They said they weren't in the game. The head was gone. Before the game finished, I went through a tunnel in the flashstone area. And in there, I started hearing noises at the end of the game. It was Embapé first, shouting, something I couldn't fully understand. Vinnie came on after, also shouting. Al-Madrid, Al-A-Madrid. I'm sure he meant to say something else.

And then the changing room of Real Madrid was kind of blocked by security. so a lot of people, about 40, 50 people, got together just at the end of the tunnel and there were very well aggression. I didn't see anything else from everybody in the middle of it was Ruizosta, the chairman of Enfika that at some point it seemed like he was separating people and others that he was arguing himself. And then after that it was the statements that we heard, the words from Joseph Morino, and I spoke to Arabelloa who surprised me by saying that they hadn't prepared

what to do in a circumstance like this, but it was always going to be whatever Vinny wanted to do. And also heard from Trent who seemed very, very affected. Vinny crossed the mix-on, didn't talk to anybody, went into the bus, and Clarice Sidoff walked into the bus as well. This is a story that Gabby Logan told me earlier. Sat down with Vinny, saw him really, really affected, and Sidov said, listen, don't take it all on yourself.

There's others here that we're fighting for you as well, but it seemed really, really emotional. And this is what we are, with Van Fika trying to explain that, you know, there's a defamation campaign against the player, trying to explain that there are Madrid players possibly didn't hear what they said they did. And Bapé mentioned that he heard the insult five times. And now we just have to wait for the investigation of UEFA. They won't have it easy.

Isn't it? Look, and there are claims and counter claims. and as Giam says, for the factual side of it, we have to wait for that investigation. One of the things that struck me in one of the things that Giam said there, Mina, was how an earth can it be on the victim in all of this to decide how everything then progresses for the rest of the game?

I do find that, you know, it's what you want to do, Vinny. Well, you know, it really shouldn't be. If he has heard what he thinks he's heard, he has got enough to deal with without then the pressure of whether we continue or not being placed on the shoulders of the victim. Well, you see, this is a difficult one because it's a little bit of, does he feel, I mean, to a certain extent, I think that he should be able to decide whether he wants to play or not. I mean, unless the natural way to go to this is to suspend the match straight away and say this is, if we have zero tolerance, then we don't have the guidelines at all, and we stop straight away and say, this is how we do Zelaerotanins.

You then end up not, especially if it's not from the fans. This isn't like the fans trying to do anything. This is actually a player on the pitch from the opponent's team who has subjected, allegedly, another player to racism. And so if this happens, then you just don't have those guidelines. You stop the match immediately, and then you have an investigation. But this is where it gets tricky,

because this is where who is supposed to say these things. Who is supposed to say the match doesn't continue anymore. In the protocol, I think the first time he has to say the warnings and the game has to stop.

That's the way it goes. Yes. Yeah, you've got three, it's in three steps, really. I know it's really, it feels wrong to say that you've got three steps if you've been racially abused,

but that's the way it is for now, certainly written. It's a warning, then it's the kind of last call and after that is the referee himself. if he hears, because it might be from the fans, for example, the abuse continuing, then he can stop it. I think in this case, it was the first warning. We had the game stopped as he was supposed to be like that in the protocol.

But if by then the player and the team of the player is saying, like, no, we don't want to continue. I think the referee can stop. But from the referee himself, it comes only later on if the abuse continues that then is his call to decide if the game continues on, which is probably wrong, to be honest. But in this case, if you're a text here, and you know how often joke when we're on the show together, when it's a French referee. I said nothing can go wrong.

The French referee pretending that they're the best in the world, which they're not, by the way. But yesterday, because also Postiani covers his mouth, by the way, and this whole investigation will be his word against Vinny's word, against, I guess the Real Madrid players who would say, like Mbapé, no, I heard him saying monkey five times. And the Benfica players would say, no, we heard him and he didn't say that. It would be words again words.

I'm not sure what UFC can see so shall we mic the players up you know the referees are miced up you know at this stage to avoid these kind of situations you know you can

you can mic players up quite easily because then you avoid this he said she said you see it in other sports you know you see it okay in the NFL they've got they've got mics in their helmets that sort of thing but I think it's a further

not really intrusive step these days with technology to help establish what has happened. I agree with Chapas. I think it's a lot of responsibility to put on one player's shoulders, regardless of what the protocol is here, because you'll still go through phase one, phase two, phase three of the protocol, and there will be a constant dialogue with the player. And then the player, if the player has to decide, it's a Champions League playoff game. game. In front of 60,000 people, let me add a little bit of the noise on the situation here because we're thinking about 24 hours later. 60,000 people who were buoying and whistling

Vinny and Embrape and continued doing so for the rest of the game who there was a standing ovation when Prestiani was replaced and at the moment where the referee stopped the game, there was of course not many people accepting that. On that and on that ambient, you have to say, okay, yeah, I don't want to play or whatever it is the decision you have to take. But there is a lot that football could be done, could do here, which, as you say, simplifying the procedures and the protocol number one.

Grand Madrid, could I prepare this a little bit better? I spoke to Arbello and he was like, you know, we would have done whatever Binie wanted to do, but you should have known with your eyes closed by having spoken to him and Embapé and whoever else and the rest of the captains, what had to happen at that point?

Also, Guillem, as you mentioned in your article, I can't remember the exact number, what more than 20 reported instances, you would think that a club that has a player who has been abused that many times would have an established protocol in how to act

should it happen again. Probably for things to move, for things to change, actually. Maybe that's, just the way. Maybe that's when the player said, I'm not continuing here. And then you if I would have to say, okay, who's winning the game, who's losing the game? And then because we've been here so many times on our show so many times we've talked about with Vinie and with other players so sadly about, okay, they're in this position and then

this will happen and what will happen now and we don't know. But then we all go back to the same, it's all going back to the same place and then it happens again next month and next season. And nothing changes really. And you know what? For things to change as well, by the way. We need to have people like Jose Marino stopping trying to find excuses. I don't know what Prostiani did or say or didn't do it. I don't care. But for Morino to almost justify it already

by saying, well, Vini should not have celebrated like that. He celebrated like if he was Di Stefano or Eusebio or Perlet for the goal he scored. Because you'll celebrate the goal that you've scored in the Champions League, then you're going to be racially abused after that by a player on the page or by the fans in the stand. This is ridiculous.

And Morino is certainly not helping the cause of those players racially abused by coming up with things like that. Or easy. O easy. Because I don't think we're going to go back to that step back of actually defending or attacking somebody because of the way he celebrated. It sounded like there was quite a unanimous reaction from everyone, media, commentators

generally about what Morinia has done. And I don't think five years ago it would have been the same kind of unanimity. So even though, of course, if we could sort it out tomorrow, it would be ideal. that's a daily battle and he's going to go on forever against discrimination. I do believe steps are being given, for instance, from the beginning of his of Venetius in La Liga,

at the beginning, I don't think La Liga understood what he was fighting against or they didn't really get why he was so upset and they blame him for what was going on. That's not happening. La Liga is at the forefront of battle against racism and discrimination.

So today, yesterday, Just to finish with that, Spanish media changed the tune as well. And I want to see that in a classical, but it was unanimous, and six months ago that was not the case, saying, this is wrong. This shouldn't happen.

Let's see if more steps are given, but sometimes from crisis like this, we move on a little bit. Can I just ask you a couple of things, Guillem, because you're going to have to then go and get ready for match today. So one of which is a lot more important than the other, So I'll do the more important one second.

But as far as next week's game is concerned, because they meet again in six days, next Wednesday. Do you know if anything that's been put in place for that game? Well, there is an ethic and discipline committee of UEFA that is investigating the case. Normally that requires a month. So you cannot fit a month with the interviews

that are going to, take place with Vinnie, with Mbapé, with Camavinga, with obviously Prestiani. That's not going to happen in a week. So maybe Prestiani gets injured, I don't know, one of them. But he obviously won't be welcome at Real Madrid, at Santiago Bernabeo. But there is no much more that can be done.

And then the second thing involves Venetius Jr. himself. And he's sort of, become a sort of symbol against racism because of what he has called out over the past few years. Is he comfortable

with that? Does he just want to play football? We saw far from understanding what has gone through since he was a kid in the favela and understood that the whole world was a hostile place. So far

from understanding that. That is decided to take matters on his own hands. and fighting against all of it. Is he comfortable? I'm sure he would like to play football. At the same time, though, there's something, there's a flame in him saying that it's got to do that.

It doesn't matter if unsettles him. It doesn't matter if not everybody, perhaps even amongst his teammates, understand what's going on. He's going to continue. And he's going to do it using the platform that he's got as one of the best players in the world. He's hearing so many times,

please behave, mostly mentioned by white men, please behave and he's got no intention of doing that. I heard some time ago saying that the black man has to fight twice as hard to be accepted as a man. He's aware of that

and he's willing to fight twice as hard until we all get it. It's a long fight and maybe all this will join in not necessarily just black because yesterday we were hearing Sidor from Michael Richards and Tieran and I missed

a lot of other people talking about this. But being optimistic as I am, that may have raised some, the conscience of many, many, many more. And we start talking differently and behaving differently. Guillem, thank you very much for this evening. Guillem Balgay with us. Piara Power, former director at Kick It Out, current chief executive director of the Fair Network. Joins us evening, Piara. Hi, Mark.

On the one hand, nice to talk to you again, but on the other hand, not if you see what I mean. And where do we go from here? What should happen now? Well, Mark, I think we know what will happen because we've been here quite a few times. Many times. Yeah. I think the situation here is slightly different because we, I can't recall a time for a long, for quite a while where it's been a player on player example of racism.

They have been there and I think, you know, we can name some of those incidents. but we haven't seen something like this for a long time. I think what will be happening now is that UEFA are taking in evidence. The referee is a key individual. Their match delegate is a key individual. We also had somebody at the match and have sent some observations through. But the referee will be the critical person here.

And he will be relating back what he was told when, where, who else approached him in terms of evidence? because that's the critical thing. We are all with Vinnie, I think. We've seen the number of times that Vinny has been abused in football at the top level in the last few years. But how do you evidence that? That's the big question for UEFA. And there are some precedence as to how they do that.

But that's the question I think they'll be asking themselves. How can we legally make a case out of this? There are protocols in place because as James has, has pointed out were very much in a, well, he said this and he said that situation here. And I suppose it also depends on who heard it, because with the shirt over the mouth, you've got no evidence. Apart from who's heard what, there's little other evidence, isn't there? Yeah, so what that, the shirt over the mouth means that you can't get hold of CCTV footage

and then get a lip reader in. We sometimes don't give enough space to victims and to hear their stories and then to give them credibility. Because, you know, you can be cynical about what happened here, or you can say, well, people don't create a fuss for nothing. People don't always want a drama in their lives. And that's the perspective, I think, that we take here. If Vinny says he heard something, Clea Mbapé then comes out after the match and gives an interview to the whole. whole of the Spanish media and is very clear about what he heard and is clear about how he's supporting Vinny Jr., then I think we have to take the guy as being honest and upfront and try

to look into this in the best way that we can. Now, there is a precedent here that UEFA dealt with back in March 2021 where Glenn Kamara, the Rangers midfielder at the time, was abused during a match against Slavia Prague. Again, no witness evidence, sorry, there was witness evidence, but there was no CCTV type of evidence that could be determined. It was whispered in his ear. And UEFA then looked at the overall situation, got the witness evidence in, got a witness statements from Glenn Kamara in, and the perpetrator was convicted, so to speak, in football terms and was given a 10 match band, which is the most that you can give. And I think it's a similar situation here. If Rao Madrid are active, can get Killian Lombat to give a witness statement,

be very clear about the impact that it's had on Vinnie and the impact that it's having on football, then I think the case stands a chance. If we're looking for objective CCTV evidence, it's not there. We're not going to find it. And then it's a dead case. And we do. And we do, need the legal case to have some foundation, otherwise then we're just into acquisitions and so on. But there are ways around this that we've learnt from criminal law and I think need to be applied here. How disappointed are you in how Benfica and Jose Mureenio reacted in the aftermath? There are ways, aren't there, in which you can go, well, we will wait for the investigation. Our player says he hasn't said anything, but we will wait for the investigation.

That presumably is how you would recommend dealing with that from their perspective rather than what they did. Yes. And I think that what we've seen in Spain, so to go back a little bit, this is the 26th time that we have logged Vinicius Jr. being racially abused in an open environment in the last five years, 26 times, right? and in a way that's involved thousands of people, often tens of thousands of people, not one person or an individual. Because there are also two people at the Benfica match last night. You can see the video on social media making monkey gestures towards it. So I'm not counting those two individuals, but mass-level racist abuse towards him.

And this is something, he's probably the most racially abused player in Europe at the moment. So this is something that he's got used to. And he's also got used to the fact that people are blaming him, the victim. People are saying he shouldn't celebrate in the way that he celebrates when he scores a goal. He carries himself wrongly. He's not humble enough. All of those things that might be an argument if you were talking about somebody's personality or just somebody who should tone it down a little bit.

But it's not an excuse for racism. And so I think to see all of that context. And then the way that Benfica respond, using the name of their greatest player in the words of Jose Marino. And then drawing on those tropes and stereotypes that we've seen in Spain is very disappointing. Really is. And Jose Marino should know better because he's been involved in English football for a long time. He understands the debates that we've had here.

He knows the consequence of dealing with abused players because there have been players on the teams that he's managed that have been racially abused and he's dealt with the impact and the fallout from that. So it's very disappointing. But in the end, we know that Jose Marina. Marino is a coach that will coach the team that he's coaching and will be all in with them. And in the end, that's also a problem

because it becomes not an issue of human dignity, but an issue of your side versus my side. You know, who gets through in the next match? And all of that sort of football politics, if you like, that should not be. consequential an issue like this. You talked about the 10 match band. Is that enough or should it be more?

And I reckon, I reckon Piar, every interview that we've probably done over 15 years, I end with this same, I probably end with this same question really. What will stop me talking to you again in whenever it may be? In the end, Mark, I think that the game as a whole, with the input of players, black players and other players, makes the rules. There are very active players, Clarence Seedorf, you mentioned earlier on, whose football credibility is beyond reproach. We're also feeding into those rules.

Ten matches is what's designated. And I think we should focus on that. If the guy is guilty, I wasn't there, you weren't there, everything we've seen suggests that something happened. Let's examine it. Let's have a legal process, a solid process. And 10 matches is enough because that's a long time. That's to possibly to the rest of the season and beyond in terms of a UEFA.

In fact, they will probably take him out for the next season in terms of a UEFA ban. And that's enough, I think. And everything that goes with that, you know, the examination of why he did it, what he did, and how he is educated further. That's enough, I think. We don't have to keep talking, you know, in terms of ratcheting up. the punishment to a point when no one wants to apply it. It has to be applicable, right?

You don't get sentenced for a lifetime in jail for a petty theft, nor should you. You serve your time, it's proportionate, and that's enough. Piarra, appreciate your time this evening. Lovely to see you. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space. and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure.

Learn more at landrover.ca. You see. Welcome. Five live sports. The Six Nations. Rugby's greatest championship. What a day of the Six Nations it's been. Live commentary of every match on BBC Sam's. I don't think he has to try.

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The Euroleagues. Listen on BBC Sounds. We're going to talk about one of the most positive stories in European football at the moment, which is FC2, who never won a major trophy. Now, 128 year history, but they are currently 12 points clear at the top of the Swiss League. and that is having only just been promoted from the second tier. I'm delighted to say the FC turn manager, Mara Lestronelli, joins us on Euroleagues.

Congratulations. Are you surprised by how this season has gone? Good evening, everybody, and thank you for the invitation. No, I don't be, because if I am surprised, that something doesn't go. I think that we are in a fantastic way and we improve day by day because of that I'm not surprised.

Have you, has your football been the same in the top division as it was in the second tier that got you promoted or have you had to change things and tweak things? Absolutely the same. I didn't change nothing because it's a football that works very good. We play with a lot intensity. with high pressing, with energy.

And this was a good development. We improved really good. And then we tried to make the same in the Super League. And the first result was really good. And then we go on with more confidence. And then, you know, you need to win. And if you win, you have more confidence and more confidence. You have not more you want to win again.

When you had two defeats, I think in a row at the end of November, wasn't it against, I think it was Lugano and Lausanne, maybe, or teams like that? And you'd been on such a great run before. This is maybe where people felt, okay, this is where the fairy tale and this incredible story and season is going to end. And yet you went on to win again. And despite, I think, one defeat against San Galin who was just behind you, who are behind you, quite way behind you in the table.

But how did you find, what kind of words you find for the players after the three, two defeats in a row because that could have unravelled in a way that could have stopped all the great things that you were doing and instead you put that behind you and you go back to winning way. What was it like for you to lose those two games in a row and yet still continuing after that to win? For me, there are many things. I think one thing is a team spirit that's really important to have that everybody knows that the team is in the middle, everybody has his role And also the team mentality, you know that every day you come to improve. You want this and you can.

And you spoke about we lose against Lugano against Sangallan. And the resilience is a big part, important part in this development. You know, it's possible to make a mistake. It's possible to fall down. but more important that how quite, how quickly you can stand up and goes on. And that's, I mean, it's very important, the team spirit and the team mentality, if you are a big heart. And that's a daily work. Maura, complimenti.

When you look at the Swiss League, we're used to thinking that Basel are the team to beat, or more recently, young boys have been a team that we've seen in European competition. I know you are focused on yourselves, but what has happened in the rest of the Swiss League to those traditional big clubs? Why are they not competing in the way that they perhaps did in the past? I can answer you in two, three different. And if you see last year, the same moment, Lugano has the same points, buzzer, the same points. It's just tune when we perform extraordinary.

This is one answer. The second one, I think that there is no many teams who works in a way in a project, you know. I think that we miss a little bit patience. You know, you want to result now. You don't have this passion to wait, to make this way. And if you lose, then you will nervous. You won't change the manager, then change players. And what we, by FZEtun, in the last years, we have continuity.

continuity in management, continuity in the club, and continuity in the player because we were promoted and we didn't change a lot of players, just five, six, but profiles that we follow and therefore our principle of the game were important and so we make step by step and and I, like a manager, I become time. That's also important. become confidence and I give also confidence and then that was a good way but you need also to win. If you have good project but you don't win then yeah it's not good. Hi Marrow. Congratulations. I also heard that you had a great career as a DJ once upon a time

before you became a very good manager. I'm always struck by the fact that Often we look at different coaches and their philosophies, but you're somebody who was a player at the club, you worked at various jobs within the club, you have had experience in every arena within the club to really become this manager that's helped develop. And together with your team, whether it's the sporting director or the board in general,

you've created a side that has gone from promotion and a lot of speak at the start where we don't just want to be promoted, we want to do something special, to actually doing something special now, setting 12 points. How important is it for clubs to rely on people who have grown within the club and understand the methodology, the philosophy of the club to really enhance it and make it better? Is that what makes you guys different? Is that why you are winning now? That's a good question.

I think that's a way. For me, it's very important to be myself. If you see, it's important to me to have good relationship. I speak person to person, not just I am the manager and the players of the players. I like to have a good empathy because it's important to me to improve the team to new the person behind the players. And that's a daily work, you know. And then, like you say, before, the step to the glory. That's the big motivation for me.

I was as a player. We make this 20 years ago. And maybe it was some special. And I am also convinced that we can make it once again. So I'm special. And that's a daily work, you know, to improve ourselves, the team mentality, the belief, you know. because football, it's not just a ball, just 11 players, the run on the pitch.

It's for me really important to believe it or to make possible before in the head, in the heart. And after, to put his, has a team on the pitch. So I say this is very simple, but it's not too easy. There is really a good and fantastical way every day, and I am very happy. very glad that I have a team that follow. Follow me and follow us,

all the staff and the club, and that's a good team. Maro, thank you very much for giving us your time this evening. We wish you well for the rest of the season. Thank you very much. Mr. Trenelli with us on your elite. I read an article, Jules today on the BBC Sport website, about how so many leagues are being dominated by one team, really.

And it wasn't just talking about Bayern or Paris Saint-German or whatever. He was even going to say, Ludagorettes who I think of won 13 out of 14 or something in Bulgaria. So you hear a story like that and it is the perfect antidote to so many teams that get into the Champions League than being able to dominate their leagues because of their financial power. Yeah, absolutely. It's amazing. We've had Mialbi before who obviously had another amazing story in Scandinavia and a couple like that. And it's probably harder to do maybe one of the big five leagues because as you said, money talks

probably more than the project that Mauro was discussing with us here and that we had with Mialbi and the other clubs that we had on the show earlier in the season. But it's just so refreshing and wondering. There's another great league in Poland, for example, this season where I think the top eight teams or ten teams are within the space of

four points, which is amazing. But obviously, the more money you have and the more powerful you are financially, the more likely you're going to win. Unless you're an Italian club in Europe, obviously, Let's not... No, no, Julian.

Keep talking about these other leagues. Keep talking about these other leagues. Go on, Julian. Right. No, let's get straight into it. Mina, what was the worst result? Yuvain Galatasarai or Intermaline in Bodo Glimb. On Napoli?

Oh, sorry, they're out of video. Sorry. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. You know, we should really ask Maro. He wrote his thesis on Sediah.

So we should say, what's going on? Why is this? fall from grace so big. I mean, obviously I'm a Juventus fan, so losing 5-2. Juventus have never conceded five goals in a European match since 1959. So it's amazing that Spalletti's making history, even if

it is for all the wrong reasons. So I would say that that's probably only because Bodo Glimps continue to shock us, they continued, well, they continue I would say to shock us, but they have been so brilliant, so maybe we shouldn't be shocked anymore. Whereas with Galatasarai, I've always often thought that they've

got such a brilliant team, really a brilliant team. I mean, I would die to have any of their strikers sitting on my bench. And yet, I wasn't sure that they were living up to their potential in that match. They were superb. They were superb in the ambition, the constant waves of attack, how incisive they were playing. So, yeah, that's probably the worst match. But Seria in general has taken a hit and deservedly so. James? I think Bodo are a great story. They remain a great story. I think it's amazing that some of the players from the initial wave when they broke out, like Jens Petterhauga, who moved to ASEMilan and then didn't really work out for him there. He went to the

Bundesliga. He's back with Bodo, because Bodo have been in Europe so often that they can afford to bring a player like that back. Great to see him to score tonight. Bodo and Carabag, you know, you look at these two teams and you think they're equalizing things about both of them in terms of Bodo, 80 tons of snow, yeah, this pitch that has been rolled. The Italians, my colleagues who follow into, I'm just like, look at this pitch they've rolled today, this artificial pitch. It's got ridges in. It's not been rolled properly, like making excuses from themselves already.

And then Carabag is always the journey, you know, for whoever goes to believe. Newcastle had no problem with the equalizing qualities that, yeah, going away to Carabag did. So, look, I think with YuVe, a few things going on. one of their best young players, Kenan Yildi's playing in Turkey, which is the nation of his family, big expectation on his shoulders, sort of gets injured in the first goal, where Victor Osman throughout the night, pressing the life out of Juventus,

kind of showing, guys, remember when I used to be a thing in Sidiya and won Capucanonniere, I can still do this. I shouldn't be in Istanbul. So he really had a point to prove. You then had the best center back at Juventus. Bremer went off injured again. Whenever he doesn't play, they're not the same team. And Spoletti makes this change, Andrea Cambiasa, the wingback, because he's on a booking,

don't want him get sent off, brings on someone for him, that guy gets sent off. All of a sudden, I think you've got to give great credit to Galatasarai. They saw the moment, they smelt blood, and they went not just to get that third goal. They went for a fourth. It could have even been five, six two, seven two. So, yeah, look, both of these games, the Bodo Gloucée. Limp game and the Galatasso-Eventus game, when they go to Italy next week, they're still sort of in the balance.

We could have an amazing night next week in the Champions League with prospective comebacks, chappas. Prospective comebacks. Are you saying no way just from a Juventus perspective, Mina? I think that, listen, it's more of a surprise that Inter would lose, considering the quality of the squad is probably far better than anything that you haven't said. Yeah, they have genuinely good players. I think for many years now, and I say many years, certainly for two to three years, Juventus have a squad far below than what their name would suggest.

This is a team that had Ronaldo, I mean, not that long ago, some of the greatest players playing within them, the Harvard of Centimax, if you like. And now they've conceded 13 goals in the last four games. They've rattled through four different coaches, and yet the results don't change. It's always a hideous performance at some point. and the team has been, it's full of names that I don't think are perhaps of the level of Juventus if we take away the likes of Bremer and Kenan Yeldiers. I'm not sure that there's much left, maybe Kaffrin Turam.

Whereas if I look at Inter, this is a side that reached the final twice and three years. And they are very capable. They have a very capable coach, regardless of his, of the stats against big teams this year. And, you know, Bodoglimt is a difficult place. So potentially back at San Ciro, yes, this is a side that's very capable of turning it around, especially at home with the talent that they have there and without, you know, without, with the home support that Bodoglempt won't have. But for Juventus and for I think the rest of the Italian teams,

I don't think there's enough talent at the moment that can cope. And I worry because I have lots of things I'm unhappy about with Spaletti, but I think at the end of the day we can't blame another coach because it's obviously not the coach. And the thing is Jules as well. I mean Atalanta lost 2-0 to Borussia Dortmund as well in this knockout phase.

There is, I know James is putting his hopes on comebacks here, there and everywhere next week. But there is a real danger, I suppose, that the last season of the Champions League doesn't have an Italian team in it. Yeah, I know, which is not good for football, let's be honest. It's not good for football. It's not.

No, it's not good. No, it's not good for us to make fun of them too. But it's not good for football in general. We agree on that. It's not. And you're right. Six Premier League teams. Six Premier League teams and no Italian teams.

That's not, I don't sound like an old fart, but that's not right. But how many times have we talked about the dominance of English teams anyway, not just in the Champions League, but we'll have the same in the European League and in the Conference League. And I would not be surprised if three English teams win the three European in Cubs this season. It's just as simple as that. It doesn't explain why you don't have any Italian teams in the last 16 because you should have. And Napoli was a disaster we said. With Atlanta and Juventus and Inter, both or all of three of them aware of at home in the second leg, you would have thought they could have been favorite in all three of those stars or they should have been. And yet,

right now it's in the balance massively. But we've talked for years about Italian football in general, the academies, producing young players, etc. And then financially, as well because the problem of Juventus is that yes they used to have big stars but now they can't afford them anymore so they need that they have a different model and it's probably not right now a model strong enough to be able to go find the Champions League Can I say that Serial was the second highest spenders over the summer so after the Premier League they were the highest spenders I mean the revenue is not there in Italy but they do spend a lot of money and look how badly spent it is and if we're really lucky I mean for you guys if you want to continue bullying us by the end of March we might not even even have Italy in the World Cup either. Oh, that's a very good point. Yeah.

I mean, look, I mean, to be slightly optimistic, I mean, yes, to be, to be fair, James, sorry, James, just to, just to balance it out. The French are only going to have a team in the last 16th because they've managed to play each other. So, let's, you know, just before. That's one and zero, Mark. Just before Jules gets all cocky on that side.

But yes, James, sorry, your point. Give us hope. No, I mean, look, it's just. It's been a bad year because remember at the start of last season in the league phase of the Champions League, Italy had five clubs. Yeah, they topped the coefficient because Inter have been in the Europa League final, two Champions League finals in the last five years. Roma have won the Conference League, been in the Europa League final, Atlanta won the Europa League. Fjurantino have been in a couple of Conference League finals. So in some respects, given what Jules was saying there, Academy is not producing finances or at least, you know, in terms of looking at balance sheets rather than transfer spent,

not great. Italian football was kind of punched above its weight over the last three years. And I would say that some of the managers who've, if you look at the teams, aside from as Jill's rightly has a go at Napoli, the clubs that are still in the championship league, they've all changed manager. This is Kivu's first big job at Inter, I think after Inter losing the league on the final day last year,

winning the league this year is really, really important to them. And then atlanta and the events have changed coach in season. that recognises that there's been something wrong either structurally within the club or in the squad and so it's not too surprising to me that they're struggling a little even in this playoff round that's it for this week's euroleaks thanks to james horncastle julia laurent and mean rosuki the next episode of the football daily oh i am sorry about this it will be the commentator's view steve brachnelly are the assistant manager of sunday league team the royal oak fc are you sick of changes to our beautiful game.

Five minutes stoppages for VAR checks. VAR, the talking point again after a five minute plus delay. Cryotherapy ice chambers. Owls in back at socks. XG double pivots and inverted wingbacks. The game's well and truly gone and I'm here to bring it back. Games gone. The Steve Bracknell podcast.

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