Football Daily - FA Cup Debrief: ‘Naïve’ Amorim & red card chaos

Episode Date: March 2, 2025

Darren Fletcher is joined by Paul Robinson and Nigel Reo-Coker. Also hear from Ruben Amorim, Marco Silva, Oliver Glasner and Paul Heckingbottom as the panel reflect on the FA Cup fifth round. From holders Manchester United crashing out and THAT challenge on Jean-Philippe Mateta, to a likely cup final suspension for Anthony Gordon and a seven-minute VAR delay at Bournemouth, there is plenty to discuss.04:10 Holders Man Utd are out 18:00 THAT challenge on Mateta 25:00 Gordon set to miss League Cup final 28:05 Newcastle denied by ‘fun police’ 32:55 New law approved to stop GK time-wasting 34:30 Five wins in a row for Brighton 37:05 VAR running on 2G at Bournemouth? 39:40 Man City have to come from behind vs Argyle 43:15 Villa through to first FAC QF in a decade 46:55 Preston breach Burnley defenceBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this week: Mon 3 Mar 1930 Nottingham Forest v Ipswich in the FA Cup, Tue 4 Mar 1745 Club Brugge v Aston Villa in the UCL, Tue 4 Mar 2000 PSV v Arsenal in the UCL, Wed 5 Mar 2000 PSG v Liverpool in the UCL, Thu 6 Mar 1745 Real Sociedad v Man Utd in the UEL.

BBC Sounds music radio podcast. This is the Football Daily podcast with Darren Fletcher. Hello, welcome to the Football Daily. It's the FA Cup debrief and we've got loads to talk about this weekend, the dramatic week in the FA Cup in the company of Nigel Rio-Coca. Sartorially elegant as always. It's a smart suit jacket and a very, very smart shirt. Nigel, how are you? I'm great. Thank you. It's been a while and it's a pleasure to be on if you find gentlemen as always. It's a smart suit jacket and a very, very smart shirt. Nigel, how are you?

I'm great, thank you. It's been a while and it's a pleasure to be on with you fine gentleman as always. Absolutely. The former England goalkeeper Paul Robinson is with us as well. Robbo's had that journey from Newcastle, the FA Cup match against Brighton, which he can give us all the insight into. Safely back home, but you've not really had a minute to think today, Paul. No, it's been a good game today actually. It was a proper FA Cup tie. Those of you who think the magic of the FA Cup is dead, go and have a look at that. It was a great game. In all honesty, neither team deserved to lose it.

It was a fantastic finish in the end by Danny Welbeck. But no, thoroughly enjoyed my day out in Newcastle today, Fletch. The last time I saw you, we both had the pleasure of being stood on the touchline inside the Santiago-abeu of Madrid before Real Madrid played Manchester City. We both kind of looked down the touchline at each other and then marveled at the stadium that we were in, didn't we? Because it's such a magnificent place.

That is incredible. I think since the work's been done there and it was just the way that they've carried out the work while still being able to play there. But actually the only way that you can describe the Bernabeu now, the way that the pitches and the stadium is, they've got that board haven't they? The TV board that goes all the way around the pitch, above the pitch. It's like an American basketball stadium or an American football stadium. It feels, it felt like a basketball court. It felt so small and enclosed down while you're on the pitch. Go up to the commentary position.

I mean, it's just vast. I've been fortunate enough to play in a lot of stadiums and visited a lot of stadiums. I can honestly say that's the best football stadium that I've seen to this point. At the finest baguette that I've ever had, a little bakery outside the stadium, and they did the jamon with the tomatoes

on this magnificent Spanish bread. And I dare say, and I bought one for Macca, bought one for Rio, we were the three happiest men in the stadium. The finest sandwich I've ever had in my life. This week, Nigel, what about this? I feel like Alan Wicker. Tuesday, I'm in Belgium for Bruges against Aston Villa.

Wednesday, I'll be in the Parc des Princes for Paris Saint-Germain against Liverpool. And then Thursday, Saint-Sebastien for Real Sociedad against Manchester United. Three absolutely humongous games for the three teams involved. Villa on this magical ride in the Champions League. Liverpool trying to win more than one thing. And then Manchester United after today. And we're going to get to this in a in a minute I mean this is like Thursday night or

bust for Ruben Ameren now what a crazy week what a crazy week it is and it definitely is it's a massive one for them now this Thursday as well but you're trying to get me jealous Fletch with all those games and stuff I might have to one you up as well though because I might be there for that second leg at Anfield then, that's my joker in the pack then. Absolutely fantastic and if you are I look forward to seeing you. Right let's crack on with this shall we. The FA Cup fifth round gave us four red cards, Millwall's goalkeeper's challenge on Jean-Philippe Mateta, Cunha going from the sublime to the ridiculous, an eight minute VAR check at Bournemouth.

Two red cards in the game that Robbo watched today. Anthony Gordon's gonna be banned for the Carabao Cup final. And then Manchester United out on penalties. So we've got, needless to say, stacks to get through. If you haven't seen the draw, it's gonna be Fulham against Crystal Palace, London Derby at Craven Cottage. Preston, the lowest ranked team left in the competition

at home against Aston Villa, Bournemouth against Manchester City and the winners of Forest against Ipswich, which is tomorrow night, they'll travel to the AmEx and the South Coast and play Brighton. Now imagine if that's Forest Brighton only a few weeks after the 7-0 at the City Ground. So that's what the draw's given us. So let's have a look at everything. There's only one place to start really, the gift that keeps on giving. Manchester United, the holders are out. They lost at home to Fulham on penalties. I think we cut straight to the chase here and get to the manager and then talk about it all in a minute. So here's Ruben Amerin.

I think we had the best chances in the game, but in the end the penalties can go both ways and today was not our day. You made a lot of changes but your bench was depleted. Did you feel you had enough from the team to get you through the 90 and then extra time and penalties? It's important to say that with the substitutions we had our chance to win the game, we were compact, we fought for the game and that is the most important thing. It's been a tough start to your Manchester United managerial career. What does this loss and going out of the FA Cup and as holders in particular, what do you think that does

to this team? The goal is to win the Premier League. I know that we are losing games and trophies during this season but the goal is to win the Premier League. Again, I don't know how long it's going to take but that is our goal. If you think like that, we can suffer a little bit in this defeat, a lot sometimes, but we have a goal so we will continue to, no matter what, we will continue forward. Do you sense from the first three months, do you ever sense on how long that might take? No, it's impossible to know. But you start understanding, I think the players are better, we understand better the league, we know what to do with the squad, what is the future and

we'll see in the future. So that's Ruben Amerin and his quote in the middle of all of that that stood out to everybody was, we want to win the Premier League. Yes, of course they want to win the Premier League but Paul when you've just got knocked out of the FA Cup and you're now down to one potential trophy which is the Europa League, you can't just be downplaying elimination from a trophy in which you were the holders because the long-term goal is to win the Premier League. I was shocked that he just kind of brushed this defeat aside to kind of say, well,

this has got nothing to do with the grand plan. Well, so does Oliver Glasner, so does Ange Poste Coglu, so does Graham Potter, and so does David Moyes. They're the four teams that are around Manchester United and the Premier League at the moment. He wants to concentrate on keeping Manchester United in the Premier League and climbing the table first before thinking about winning titles. There's a lot wrong at the moment. He wants to concentrate on keeping Manchester United in the Premier League and climbing the table first before thinking about winning titles. There's a lot wrong at

Manchester United, we know that, we talk every single week about Manchester United and bear with me because I've said this before and I said it a long time ago when he first came in, he's a disciple to his system, he's nailed his colours to the mast, he's gone I'm going to play this 3-4-2-1 system, regardless of the players that I've got, regardless of what results they are, this is what I'm going to do. When actually, when he comes in, he should say, this is what I've done in previous managerial experience at Porto, I've had results by playing this system. At the moment, I don't think we've got the players to do it. Eventually, this is where I want to get to. Managers don't get jobs when things are going well. The first

thing you do is turn results around, turn performances around. You find a short-term solution to get results, put a good feeling back, and start climbing the Premier League table. 14th place is unacceptable. Only having the Europa League for the rest of the season for Manchester United, and bearing in mind it's Tottenham as well, both of those two clubs are now hanging their season

on the Europa League. For him to come in and go, that's my system and I'm sticking to it, when results are as bad as they are without being flexible and having no short-term solution. Like I said, managers don't get jobs when things are going well, unless you're on a slot. So for him at Manchester United,

I don't think he's devoid of criticism at all. I think he has to adapt, say, look, this is where I wanna get to. You're gonna see the team play in a few different ways with personnel in different positions. I don't think I've got the players to get to where I wanna get to yet, but we'll get there eventually.

I struggle watching them every week because they're getting found out in the same areas. Yeah, so Wayne Rooney was on BBC One today and on the back of what Amorim said, he said it's very difficult to come in during the season and have no pre-season, but he has to look to the future. I think he's a little naive to say they're looking to win the Premier League because from where they are now, they're a long way off that. I mean when you look at them, Nig, you know sometimes you can see a team that's starting to develop and even though the results aren't quite there you can see a lot of positives. I watch these Manchester United performances

and nothing really stands out really. There's not really an individual that stands out another Alan Shearer gave Bruno Fernandez mad at the match But my view would be that if Manchester United's captain is the best player on the pitch at home Against Fulham then they're probably gonna win that game I thought it was a bit harsh on some of the Fulham defenders who had a really good day today Calvin Baty in particular, but I'm looking for positives and things to hang any potential Amerim optimism on. And I've got to say I'm struggling to see it.

I'm with you. I don't see it. I don't see progression. We've seen it so many times where like yourselves, Fletch, even in the Premier League game when Manchester United played Fulham at Craven Cottage, I went on to say it's one of the worst Premier League games I've ever had to witness. And I don't see any real progression in this system. In this system that he goes on so much about, I don't see the players

getting any better. If anything, I see players getting worse. I see centre-backs who are international players who played in international tournaments looking like schoolboy defenders not seeing danger, knowing danger, which means to me that they're not buying into the system and they don't understand the system. You don't have the players and I'm with Robbo. I'm not going to repeat what Robbo said, but I agree with him. You have to find a way to win. We watch football. It's about winning. It's about

creating that winning mentality. You can talk all about systems, all you want. It's all about the players that make these systems. And clearly these players right now don't understand his system. It's never going to work. make these systems. And clearly these players right now don't understand his system. It's never going to work. So like anything in life, one thing guaranteed in life is change. He has to change and adapt and use the players that he has available with him to the best he can just to bring in that feel good culture, that feel good mentality of winning football matches.

The great managers we marvel at, they're not the most tactical, they're not the great masterclass of tacticians, but they create a winning culture and winning atmosphere that fans buy into and the players that they manage buy into and they create those special environments by doing that and using the best of what they've got available to them. And we're gonna get to Marco Silva and Fulham in a second because we also want to praise them

for reaching the quarterfinals of the FA Cup and we should do that. He also said, Robbo, after the game, that Bruno, Casemiro and Josh, and he means Joshua Zerzi, are improving a lot. Well, Casemiro has won four Champions Leagues and played at Real Madrid, and he's on the wrong side of it now.

Bruno, I think, is widely regarded as Manchester United's best player, whether people think he should be the wrong side of it now. Bruno I think is widely regarded as Manchester United's best player, whether people think he should be the captain or not. And I'm struggling to see this improvement in Joshua Zerxy. They seem to be three strange individuals to bring out in a quote after that match today. Listen I think with Ruben Amar and I think he's got this stigma around him, he's bought himself time with what he says and the way that he's He's conducted himself in in post-match interviews and you look at Joshua Zerxie and playing today Bruno Fernandes He's without doubt Manchester United's best player. Love him or loathe him. He's the best player and he changes the game He plays him too deep. Why does he play him so deep? So you've got Hoyland and Zerxie who at the moment are struggling

I think that's what no goals in the last 18 now for Rasmus Hoyland. And yet Bruno Fernandes, Manchester United's biggest goal threat, he plays him as a deep line left-hand sided midfield player where he's their most creative attacking player. Xerxie and Eriksen in behind Hoyland didn't really work today. And like you say, Cassimara, I think what he was alluding to with what he was saying, you know, you've pulled that quote out, I think he's saying they're getting better at what he wants them to do in the system that he wants to play. Not actually as individuals and better players, if that makes sense. But for me, Bruno is better further up the field. I've got to bring up the Rasmus Hoyland situation.

I mean, poor old Anthony must sit there and ask the question why he gets so much stick. Because you've got a centre forward that cost an absolute fortune. It was Paul's just said hasn't scored for I think 18 games. If you look at his goals tally at Manchester United, he scored the majority of them in about a 10 game spell when he got red hot and then he got injured. But they brought a young kid on today, I think he's 17, Cheeto Obey, who came on.

And he posed a much greater threat, Nigel, to the center backs of Fulham than Hoyland did at any stage when he was on. This kid's super talented, obviously, wet behind the ears, no experience of situations like that. He shouldn't be coming off the bench and looking like he can do more damage than Rasmus Hoyland.

I mean, what's happening here with him as a centre forward? He never looks like he's gonna score a goal. Yeah, Fletch is 17-year-old Danish striker, Obe Martin. I think he's the one that should start for me, because for me, he just seems like more of a threat in the goal, making runs that actually matter within the goal frame and not running everywhere the ball has been. Rasmus Hoylen, for me, again, he's another player

that's just been going under the radar, and would you have to say getting away with it. Hasn't really performed to the levels. When you talk about Manchester United, again I get kind of bored about talking about this, the history of Manchester United. Great players have gone there before him and now we keep talking out about Hoyland. He hasn't lived up to it. He wasn't good enough to go to Manchester United. Covering Serie A here, and I've got friends who covered it, they said that that's the greatest business Atalanta have done to be able to sell him for that money for Manchester United, where he was barely playing in Serie A and scoring

goals and pulling trees. They actually text the owners of Atalanta to say that is the most magical deal you've ever done in football. And it's gone to say that. And it's just the reality of it. You dream to be a football player Fletch, you want to play for these big clubs. When you get there don't start crying when things don't go the way that you want it to be because there's many many millions and millions of kids who have that dream and want to make it. This is what comes with it. He's not living up to it. The youngsters shown more capability and more in this 20 or 30 minutes he got today than I've seen in Hoyland

in many games he's played for Manchester United. Yeah, a couple of quotes. Wayne Rooney again on BBC One. What I like about him talking about Chido Obe is he puts himself in good positions. Naive with some of his chances, but it's encouraging for Manchester United. I've been really impressed with him. And Alan Shearer said Obe's been a real handful. He's certainly offered more than when Hoyland was on the pitch. He's been a nuisance. He also said, Wayne, by the way, that he'd like to see Danny Welbeck back at Manchester United. He certainly would be an improvement on what they've got at the moment. So when it all comes down now to Thursday, they've got Real Sociedad away and then they play them at home and if they get knocked out of that, then there's nothing left to play for

the rest of the way. I mean the mad thing is they could still qualify for the Champions League if they win the Europa League so they've got to try and stay as positive as they can be but it does mean that we will have new winners of the FA Cup this season because Manchester United are out. Before we hear from Marco Silva, Nigel you want the last word? I just wanted to say Fletch as much as they are in the Europa League, they are not the best team in that competition and by no means are they the favourite. There's more stiff competition in the likes of Athletic Club, Lazio, Roma, so I just don't see Manchester

United coming with any kind of trophies. Tottenham? Tottenham? Yeah, yeah, Tottenham, yeah. So Manchester United out, but Fulham have beaten them in the FA Cup for the first time since 1908. Here's Marco Silva. The way the team plays second half and all the extra time make me really proud because it's our identity, it's what we want.

To come here to be the most dominant team and to take the game for that half is not easy to do knowing that many United love to have the open space to counter-attack. But we were brave and we did it, it's our way and I have to congratulate the players and of course it was a big fight, chances for both sides and the penalty shot out the composure, I love it, the composure of our players, the confidence of our players and Bernou after did this job. Crystal Palace then in the quarter-finals? Yes, it's going to be a great battle between two good sides. They have been in a great

form away from home. It's a shot-out moment. We want to be stronger than them. They won 15 days ago at Crevel Cottage. We want to write a different story. It's going to be a very good game. London Derby, everything what the fans they love as well to be and be able to play at home in a London Derby, the quarter-finals of the FA Cup. So that's Marco Silva, delighted for him and his team. They've never won a major piece of silverware in club history and here they are, a win away from a semi-final at Wembley, two wins away from a place in the FA Cup Final Robbo. Why can't it be them this year?

When you look at the teams left in, you'd say they've got as good a chance as anybody. I think that club's really progressed in the Marco Silva, I do. I think from his managerial credentials, you look at his early managerial careers, maybe the reason he doesn't get linked with more top jobs, but you look at the side that he's assembled there,

you look at the team that he's put together, and there's not necessarily a standout star in that Fulham team, but there's a bunch of very, very good players who know what to do. They're extremely well-coached. I mean, you look where they are now, they're ninth, five points off a Champions League place. So they're in a really good place in the Premier League.

And when you look at them every weekend and you do your predictions for the weekend and you look at Fulham and you think, oh, Craven Cottage, that took place to go now, or Fulham away, hardworkingworking, defensively, fairly solid. He's made them into a good staple Premier League team, and they're a team that can push on. And like you say now, you look at this draw,

there's no disrespect to anybody in this draw whatsoever. Manchester City are the ones that stand out because of recent success and recent history. The rest, Bournemouth, Fulham, Palace, Villa, Nottingham Forest, Ripswich, Brighton. There's teams in there that would love to get to an FA Cup final. It's nice, it's gonna be a good season for the FA Cup.

So congratulations to Fulham. They're through, Manchester United out. Fulham are gonna play Crystal Palace because they beat Millwall 3-1 at Selhurst Park yesterday. We've gotta start with a big moment though, Paul, and I want this from a goalkeeper's perspective, the challenge on Jean-Philippe Mateta. Talk me through it.

What do you think went through the keeper's mind? Just give me some background from a, the only angle I've not heard this discussed from is the goalkeeper's side of things. Listen, to start with, it's indefensible. I mean, it's an awful challenge. It's a horrific challenge. But again, you can dress it up how you like. There's no hiding it. It's a horrific challenge. But again, you can dress it up how you like.

There's no hiding it. It is a horrendous challenge. It was a bad decision. It was a bad challenge. And it's one of the worst that you'll see in a long time. And I think he'll probably get an elongated ban for it. It's not just going to be the standard three games because it really was a terrible, terrible challenge.

But from a goalkeeper's point of view, he certainly didn't mean to cause any harm. There was no malice in the challenge whatsoever. He's got it wrong. And as a goalkeeper, when you go over that white line of your 18 yard box, at times you're a bit of a fish out of water. All of a sudden you can't use your hands. You make decisions and he has to make a decision.

One for me, I think the initial decision was wrong to actually go and challenge for the ball. I think if he stays in his box, the danger is not his danger to deal with. But once he's crossed that line, he can't use his hands and he's made a decision. And in his head in that split second, let's not forget, we've got days and weeks to analyze this and we look at replays. He's got a split second and in that split second, he makes a really bad decision. His decision is to go and win the ball. The ball is never there to be won. Listen, Mateta's not small, is he? Think how big Mateta is. He's a huge unit of a guy, tall guy,

and his foot was above his head. I mean, it was an awful, awful tackle. It was a poor decision. The goalkeeper's got himself in a situation by one misjudging the flight of the ball and putting himself outside his box where he didn't need to be. All of a sudden he's realised he can't use his hands. And it's one of those situations where a thousand thoughts go through your mind in a second and he's had to make a split second decision. He's thought I'm way out my goal, I'm in trouble, I'm going to win that ball and it's an awful tackle. Listen, it's indefensible but you can see how it got to that but it still should never have arisen. It's the worst challenge I've seen a goalkeeper make since Harold Schumacher on Patrick Batistone

in the World Cup in Spain in 1982. And if you've not seen that, go and have a look at it. And he was seriously injured in the challenge, Batistone, that night as well. So Jean-Philippe Mateta did post on social media on Saturday. Thank you for all your kind messages. I'm doing well. I hope to be back very soon and stronger than ever.

Well done, guys, for the great job today. I love doing well. I hope to be back very soon and stronger than ever. Well done guys for the great job today. I love you, JP. And here's his manager Oliver Glasner. To be fair, during the game, you could see this high intensity, but it's a terrible foul. You know, it's the intensity, the foot in that hate, straight with the studs to the face and terrible. I don't want to blame the keeper. I always think every sportsman doesn't want to injure somebody, but you have to decide in a different way when you leave your box as a keeper and can't risk that injury.

Imagine he hits his head with full contact and it could be end of career. So, yeah, it was a terrible foul and hopefully we won't miss JP for too long. The Crystal Palachian and Steve Parrish, and I think he needs to have a long, hard look at himself. He's talking about the Millwall goalkeeper, Liam Roberts, because he's endangering a fellow professional and even maybe his life.

Alex Niel, the Millwall boss said, my goalkeeper mistimed it. It happens. It's no more than that. I mean, the big surprise to me was that Michael Oliver had to go and take a look at it at the screen. And he had a really good position. That to me was outrageous. If you can't see that in real time. Absolutely. A1 example of the referees relying on VAR. If he hasn't seen that, and if he hasn't seen that that's a straight red card from his point of view from the referee, he's had to wait for VAR to tell him.

I mean, that just shows above anything that we've ever seen that referees are using VAR as a comfort blanket. It's taking the element of the referees making a decision on the pitch and refereeing the game out of it. Because of that incident there, he had a perfectly good view of it, he could see it, yet he chose to wait to be told by VAR. So the referee and element on the field is slowly going.

I mean, when we're going on to the Newcastle game today, we'll talk about something similar today. I think that's the biggest disappointment for me in that whole situation. Cause when you look back at the replays, every time I see it, Michael Oliver is in a perfect situation to see everything, to see the high foot. And

as many times in midfield, they tell you as well, when you raise your foot high and if an opponent puts his head there, you're going to get a yellow card instantly for that situation, for saying it's dangerous play. How Michael Oliver didn't take control of that situation being that close, perfect vision of it, I think is one of the most disappointing things in that game as well. Yeah, and we wish Jean-Philippe Mettet a well 15 goals in 33 games, including eight, and his last eight in the Premier League. So Crystal Palace certainly need him back and want him back as soon as possible. And congratulations to Oliver Glasner and his players. They've now got

full of it Craven Cottage in the last eight of the FA Cup. Right, halftime teaser for you while we take a break. Newcastle versus Brighton was the first all-Premier League FA Cup tie to see both teams have a player sent off since Everton against Chelsea in March 2016. Can you tell me who was given their marching orders that day? Clue. It was an Everton midfielder and a Chelsea striker, and neither of them had particularly good disciplinary records. Answer in a moment.

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Commentators view only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily podcast, the debrief. Listen on BBC Sounds. Welcome back to the FA Cup debrief. Now before the break, I said Newcastle against Brighton was the first all-Premier League FA Cup title. See both teams have a player sent off since Everton Chelsea in March 2016.

Can you tell me who was given their marching orders? I gave you a clue. It was an Everton midfielder and a Chelsea striker. Any ideas? 2016. The boys are looking blank. Blank. Gareth Barry who holds the Premier League record for yellow cards with 123 and you were also saying Robbo? Diego Costa. Diego Costa who could have an argument in a telephone box on his own in the middle of the night. So yep Diego Costa and Gareth Barry. Right so Danny Welbeck's Gordon Extra Time winner Brighton beat Newcastle 2-1 at St James' Park. It finished 10 against 10, Anthony Gordon and Tariq Lampdi sent off, so Gordon's gonna get an automatic three game ban and will miss the Carabao Cup final against Liverpool

on Sunday the 16th of March, unless Newcastle appeal and have it overturned. I mean, I've gotta say, Robert, you were in the stadium. It looked pretty blatant to me. I can't even imagine what was in his mind. Why on earth is he doing that, Anthony Gordon? You know what it's like in the press box. So you see it and you witness it firsthand, and it's away to your right-hand side.

So it's kind of half blocked. You see what's going on. And then you've got a monitor, a tiny monitor away to your left that's not always a great picture. So my initial thinking was, look, that's uncalled for, petulant, it's stupid. He's put the flat of his palm into Van Hecker's head and pushed him over and he's hit the side of his head. And I said on air today on BBC Five Live,

I said immediately, it's a straight red and it's a stupid red card. Is that how it was? Because I've literally driven home, jumped onto the pod now with you and I've not seen any fallout from it. Well, I think so. And Eddie How Howe said hugely disappointed for him it looked harsh we'll have to review the incidents and go through it and see what we make

of it he's such a big player for us and on the possibility of appealing it Eddie Howe said possibly Anthony didn't mean any harm he was very disappointed I mean I would agree with that last sentence Knight Nige. I don't think he meant any harm. But where do you draw the line? If someone does flagrantly put their hand pretty forcefully into the head of an opponent, how do you legislate it? You've just got to show the red card.

It's not, I don't think he's given the referee an alternative, has he, really? You can't do anything about it. You know, these players are very aware of referees telling them you have your meetings about not putting your hand in the opponent's face. You know, when you do that, you are going to get a red card. And I think for me, when I look at that situation there,

it just seems like a moment of red mist, just real frustration. And he does it. And when he does it, I think he comes to realization real quick that, oh, I made a mistake. And that's it. But the referee has no other choice but to give him a red card. That is a red card incident. It was a sending off. And Anthony Gordon has to take responsibility. He lost his call and the red-missed moment got the better of him and now he's got a red card

and sadly he could have missed the cup final. And that's exactly what it was because for people who haven't seen the game at this point, still haven't seen the game. He was frustrated, Anthony Gordon, during the game that the referee, Anthony Taylor, wasn't giving him certain decisions. He was getting past players, he felt he was brought down. Five minutes prior to that sending off in a similar area of the pitch, he was brought down in the box by Gruda,

and he thought it was an absolute nailed-on penalty. The referee waved it away, and in those five minutes, you could see the frustration boiling inside Anthony Gordon. And at that point, when Van Hecke got in front of him, he made that challenge and there was the coming together and it was just pent up anger that he hadn't been given decisions. And like, like you said, he put himself in that position and gave the referee

no other option than to send him off. Yeah. Um, you, you, you dropped the old fun police quote out again, didn't you? When Fabian Scherzgold was disallowed, you said the fun police about it. And it was a really, really tight offside. And I've got to say, right, I might sound like the biggest clown

that anybody's ever heard on a podcast. I know that probably they think that before I even say what I'm going to say, just to put that in as a caveat. But I don't think that the offside law was ever put into the game for offsides as tight as we're seeing white goals off now. My interpretation of why they had an offside law

in the first place is so that one fella couldn't stand in one penalty area while the ball's at the other end of the pitch and score goals. And we've gradually made it more and more and more micro as we've gone on. We're now ruling goals out because a fraction of someone's body is the other side.

I've got to say, I don't like goals disallowed when it's that tight. I don't know what they can do in the current scheme of things to alter it, but it certainly feels to me as though they need to rewrite it or look at it and work out what does constitute offside because there genuinely is no advantage. If your shoulder's two inches in front of somebody else's, there is no genuine advantage

because you could be moving in the opposite direction. So these really tight ones like that, in days gone by prior to VAR, everybody in the world would have accepted that he was level and wouldn't have complained about it because it wasn't blatantly offside. And I must say, I have real sympathy for any team who gets one disallowed like that because it's too tight, Nige. It shouldn't be like that.

It's crackers. I just want to know, Fletch, if you finish with your little passionate rant right about now about the offside thing. It's for commentators as well, Nigel. It's for commentators that give it full beans and you think the game's over and it's won and then all of a sudden you're down again. And by the way, Rubble, you've wasted your best line at that point. Your best line's gone. You can't do it again. It's no goal. You've killed your best line.

Fletch, you'll be glad to know, I'm glad that you just had your little rant because I'm on the same side as you. I agree with you. I think now that the margins that they're taking their sideline to is too extreme. I feel that those type of goals should be given if it's just a shoulder or a toenail that we've seen that they're trying to fine tune it to a level of perfection, it's too much. I think that goals like that should be given and stay and a little slight advantage to the attacker isn't that bad because it's not an astronomical difference it's making, but to go to the fine margins of perfection

they're trying to go to is too much for my liking. I'm with you on that one. Before you come in, Paul, what I would say though, arguing against myself, at least we are completely consistent now in offside decisions in general, because those tight ones go both ways. It's not as if, oh, well, they got a marginal one and we didn't.

So doing it like this does, I think, make it, I don't know, the fair is the right words. I'm not sure it's actually fair in the first place. But do you see where I'm coming from? Well, we're getting it in the purest of forms, aren't we? We're trying to get referee into the absolute purest of forms where every single decision is correct, which technology has proven that it's failed at times. Human error is a thing as well.

But correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't the rule changed? Didn't we once have a, there has to be daylight. That was a rule? And yet that's evolved and that's changed now. And Arsene Wenger has been shouted down in certain quarters because he's an advocate of bringing daylight back again and I've said this a few times and I'll say it again that this is the only sport in the world that is campaigning to take goals and therefore excitement out of the games so if you watch other sports,

they're trying to score more points, more touchdowns, whatever it is, they're tweaking the rules to make sure the scores go up. And we're changing the rules that brings the score down. So in terms of entertainment value for the fan who are paying more than they've ever paid for these tickets, we're finding a way to wipe goals off rather than generating situations to put goals on,

which I thought was the whole idea in the entertainment business was to entertain, but clearly not. This automated offside that was used in the summer in the tournaments, ours in this country is different. We've had to be different. Like when VAR first came in,

we didn't use it how everyone else in the world using it. We used it in a different way. So all this semi-automated offside that worked so well during the tournaments, and it was brilliant, it was quick, and we all looked at that and thought, brilliant, bring that to the Premier League. Oh no, we can't, we have to wait six months,

and then we bring a different version of it, that doesn't work, and it took eight minutes at Bournemouth yesterday. Yeah, we'll get to that in a minute. Nathan, the producer, just put something on the screen that says, IFABA voter to continue offside trials in which the attacker will be ruled onside if his torso is level with the second to last defender. They've also approved a new law, you'll like this one, Robbo, so a goalkeeper holding the

ball for more than eight seconds will be punished with a corner for the opposition from this summer. A corner? You know what? They cannot leave the game alone. Just leave the game alone. It's great. Leave it. But this is by people who clearly haven't played the game.

They give a corner. Goalkeepers used to have six seconds. It used to be a six second rule. You had to distribute the ball. Then that went out of the game. So the goalkeepers have Started now game management time wasting so now they're given extra two and it's eight do they not realize when's that rule coming in? The summer but they're not realized nice that by doing this they make the corner such an integral part of the game that you started

To make these set pieces matter more than what happens to you. Then we'll have set peace coaches before long Set peace coaches are gonna be the new hot property. Forget being a manager, you might as well start practicing to be a set-piece coach, mate, because you might get a mural done for you like the Arsenal one's got one. And by the way, Nides, you're going to get to see it up close and personal because they're going to use it all in the Club World Cup in America in the summer. So that's where you're going to see a corner for eight seconds. Let's see how many referees truly wait for that eight seconds to give a corner.

Listen, it's going to be like the NBA shot clock before you know it. That little digital clock is going to be in there counting down from eight. If you get to 8.5, what will be tied here? You'll be in the stocks and people are going to be throwing dried fruit at you. So Newcastle out. They've got the Carabao Cup final, but now they're going to be lacking or missing one of the big players in Anthony Gordon, unless he gets the red card overturned. But for Brighton, haven't they responded well from that seven nil at Forest?

I mean, that would have flattened a lot of clubs. Now, all of a sudden, they're playing really well again. They've gone away to Newcastle, they've got a result in the FA Cup. The form's been decent in the Premier League since that setback. It's a real example, Nig, of the character that they clearly got within that group to come back from the 7-0. Yeah, great character, it really does, it shows great resilience in this Brighton side and I thought it was a fantastic Cup match. Obviously Paul was there

live but watching that from the TV, I was saying to myself, this is what the FA Cup's about. Both teams are really going at it. Brighton was showing the quality that they have. You talk about whether it's patterns of play, just the system, how freely they play. The wingers were just sensational. Mitoma and Pedro, the striker, it was just a great game. It's great. The manager's done well to get them to come back to it.

Herzl, he's got them back from that defeat where we did think that some people were actually questioning whether he might even still be at Brighton, which was crazy, but that did come out where they were questioning how long he could still be there. But he's got them responding in the best way possible and they're playing some fantastic football and they deserve to be in there. There's a stat for you, Rob, but before you come in, they've won five consecutive matches in all competitions for the first time ever as a top flight club. Off the back of that seven-nil defeat, that was the last game.

So after that game, they went on to beat Chelsea twice in a week, one at Southampton, one at home against Bournemouth, and then beat Newcastle today. So we spoke today and you talk about Brighton, and we all say it's such a good club, it's so well-run, the player turnover that they have, the revenue that they bring in, they're from selling players.

But actually you look at them, yes, they brought a whole lot of revenue in this summer, but they were one of the top spending clubs in the Premier League, one of the top spending clubs in Europe this season. And then actually now you go, okay, Brighton are this club who seem to get a pass every year, and when's the expectation come with that?

When is it, right, we need to start looking at European football on a regular basis. When is it time to win Silverware? Cause they're a club without major Silverware for a long time. And you look at what he's done, Herzl, they're set eighth in the Premier League at the moment, quarterfinal of the FA Cup.

They've got an opportunity to have a really good season. What he does in the final third of the pitch with Minter, Rutter, Mitoma and Gio Pedro, the press that they've got, the high intensity that they play. You can see the identity that he's put into this team. They play at such a pace and they close down high up the pitch.

They're a good watch, Brighton. Yeah, the thing I've got to bring in before we speak about Manchester City, we'll talk about Bournemouth first because they're going to be hosting City in the quarterfinal. They got through on penalties against Wolves, but I've got to mention this seven minute and 33 second VAR stoppage. The FA said it was caused by a congested penalty area.

And we were told that semi-automated offsides that were being used that day were supposed to reduce the decision time. So whether we should be grateful that it was only seven minutes and 33 seconds because we've got the semi-automated system, would it have been longer without it? But surely if it's taking that long to work it out, you should just get on with it because it has to be so difficult to work out.

I mean, seven and a half minutes, please. Both sets of fans were chanting, it's not football anymore, this is embarrassing. There's your pay in public. They're the people that put their hand in the pocket, go into the stadium, it's their entertainment for the week and they cannot stand it. And when it works like that,

I completely understand why they think that way. Surely seven and a half minutes to check an offside is unacceptable, whichever way you look at it. It's embarrassing. When you look at that, right, and you think, Fletch, can you read that quote again? What did it say about there being a congested penalty box? It might have problems.

Yeah, the FA said it was caused by a congested penalty area. I mean, you'd never expect to see that, would you, with a cross into the box? That's what I'm saying. That's a massive surprise. I mean, you'd never expect to see that, would you, with a cross into the box. That's what I'm saying. That's massive surprise. So what do you expect the players to do? Just get out of the way in case there's an offside angle. We'll stand here, lads, just out of the way.

Let's not get in the way of the picture. You're in the way of the camera. Let's get out of the way of the camera. You can't stand there. How is technology not that advanced to be able to separate how congested a penalty box is? I think maybe probably the semi-automated system was running on 2G and it wasn't 5G that it was supposed to be running on to make it quicker. That's

what it was. Yeah. This goes back to my point though of a few minutes ago where people might disagree with me and say, no, look, I want the consistency. Every offside is going to be given no matter how tight it is. It has to be that way so it works for everybody. But if one's taking seven and a half minutes to work out, then clearly there's no place for that within the game. Within the flow of the game, it disrupts the game, it affects it for everybody else.

That there, I think, argues to my point that there's gotta be a bit of leeway somewhere, otherwise you get crazy situations like this. But this is a system that you're effectively trialing in the fifth round of a competition that's already like three quarters of the way through and you're bringing it into a competition towards the end that you will give it a try when everyone can use it

at the end of the competition. That itself is not a level playing field. Crazy, but well done to Bournemouth, they're through. They keep their momentum going. They've now got Manchester City, who had to come from behind at home to championship struggle as Plymouth. It finished 3-1 just short of 8,000 Argyle fans made the 560 mile round trip and for seven minutes at the Etihad they got

the lead. I mean they'd already beaten Brentford, then they'd beaten Liverpool and now they're ahead against Manchester City. I mean they've had some run before we talk about City. They're not going to forget this season, are they, in FA Cup terms in a hurry, the Plymouth-Argyle fans? No they're not. I actually had to do a public apology to Plymouth-Argyle from over here when they first placed Liverpool and I said I'd give them no chance and I was talking on the other side of it saying about the magic of the FA Cup, anything's possible. One of my colleagues said yeah what about Plymouth and Liverpool, I said,

yeah, they've got no chance with Liverpool. And then they said to me, what about the magic of the Cup? But they went and got the job done. No one saw that one coming in and they go to the Etihad and take a one nil lead again. And you think, oh, my God, it's on again. And they did make it very nervey for Manchester City. But what a journey for Plymouth Fargo.

You know, you knock out Liverpool and you get another big club in the next round, Manchester City go to the RTL. I'm sure it's going to be a great story for those players that they remember the rest of their career, you know, to be fortunate to play against two top teams like that. Yeah, City had 29 shots, Robbo, to Plymouth's one. Ten big chances Manchester City created, but they missed seven of them. And this has been a bit of an Achilles heel for them all season. Critical situations, can you execute when it really matters, whether that is in an

attacking sense or a defensive sense. And again we saw it at the weekend that big moments came and they weren't able to deal with it. They could have made this game a lot easier, a lot more comfortable than it turned out to be, had they been more ruthless and more clinical. I think the problem that City have is defensively, they look susceptible again this year. You know, the amount of goals that they're conceding, the plethora of attacking quality that they've got

has never been in doubt. And I think those players are not the ones that suffer with confidence or fragility. When Manchester City have struggled this year, when you've seen them, I've seen them, they're against teams that take the game to them, they press them high and with the new defensive structure, the injuries that they've had, they concede goals and when they go one behind, they almost look like they're going to go two, three, four behind. The attacking players that they've got in that side, I mean, they changed it

up against Plymouth, didn't they? I mean, Bernardo Silva played, McAtee played, De Bruyne a grealish behind Foden as a false nine and you would think that's enough. But Manchester City, they're definitely coming back, but they're not back to where they were. But like you say, those key moments, those key opportunities, they're not being taken. No, Pep Guardiola said, we created a lot and conceded little, the basics we've done for many years. Plymouth were incredibly well organised, they didn't press much and defended a bit deeper, but they defended with solidity. They're an incredibly solid team. Well, they were on Saturday, they

haven't been in the championship. If you see the number of goals they've conceded this season, that was Pep quite an anomaly for Plymouth Argyle. On Nico O'Reilly, who scored a couple of goals, Pep said he's not a typical academy player. He's a physical presence, a number 10, I would say. He can play in a few positions. He's a threat from set pieces because he's strong. I'm really pleased for him because he helped us a lot. And at 19 and 345 days, Nico Reilly is the youngest player to score a brace for Manchester City since Phil Foden when he was 18 and three quarters, I suppose you'd say, against Newport, that was in the FA Cup, and that was in February of 2019.

So Manchester City through, they go to the Vitality, a tricky game on the road against Bournemouth. Let's have a look at Villa, they're into their first FA Cup quarterfinal in a decade. They beat Cardiff 2-0 on Friday night. Marco Asensio with both goals, and hasn't he made the impact since coming in? I mean, you'd say the same about Rashford too.

Two players who came in January. Rashford's generating chances, Nijen. Looks like he's got his confidence back and he looks a bit quicker than he did at Manchester United all of a sudden. And Asensio scored four goals in two games at Villa Park. And we know all about his pedigree from Real Madrid and Paris Saint-Germain. Yeah, you talk about quality players. Asso is just sensational, just great to watch, so gifted technically, football intelligence, already thinking three, four plays ahead.

The relationship he's starting to develop with Marcus Rashford as well, he looks like a complete different player. You talk about a player with the wind in his sails again, that's him. And I think the good thing about him is he's got a great manager in Unai Amri, an experienced manager, a proven winner, and also he's gone into an environment that's stable. He's gone into an environment with good leadership. You talk about Martinez, World Cup winning goalkeeper, can be a bit too theatrical for my liking at times, but he's still got good character to keep people in place. John McGinn, the captain, he sets the tone. So he's an environment that's a lot different from Manchester United as we've spoken about them before. And I think

that's why we're starting to see Marcus Rashford slowly get back to his best. I still don't feel he's at his optimal fitness level. And I still feel that there's more to come for him, but he's in a great environment right now. And Villa in a real great place. And I wouldn't bet against them maybe going all the way to win this competition. Yeah, they've got a chance, haven't they? It's got a chance as anybody you'd say. Robert, one thing that I noticed, though, when I look at the makeup now of the Villa team on Friday against Championship

opposition, he played Asensio as a number 10. He played Rashford on one side, Leon Bailey on the other, Olly Watkins through the middle with two holding. He's going to go to Bruges on Tuesday in the Champions League, Rashford on one side, Leon Bailey on the other, Olly Watkins through the middle with two holding. He's gonna go to Bruges on Tuesday in the Champions League and he's got the option then to play the extra man in midfield and play Asensio off one side and Rashford off the other.

You don't necessarily lose a great deal as an attacking unit, but away from home, you can play the extra man in midfield without losing that ability to generate chances with those two really good wide players in Asensio and Rashford. So they've lost Duran but it feels to me like he can do more now with the makeup of his 11 particularly away from home in big games. Well you look at it now and you look at the loss of Duran and people questioned it at the time didn't they but then after that then

Asensio comes in, Rashford comes in and that type of player is maybe slightly more than one dimensional, not saying John Duran was, but he plays as a nine, or he plays off on the right-hand side, and he cuts inside. But the balance that they've got, and bearing in mind, you look at that side that they played against Cardiff, Rodgers was on the bench, wasn't he?

Didn't play Rodgers, Morgan Rodgers, he brought him on for Marcus Rashford. Ollie Watkins is his figurehead. I think the key for Aston Villa is keeping Ollie Watkins fit between now and the end of the season. We know that Marcus Rashford can play there, that's maybe not where he's best off deployed, but with Ollie Watkins as that nine, Bailey, Rogers, Asensio, Rashford, the players that they've got in that area, they've got a really good group of attacking players, but the thing for me, and it's very,

very important for Villa, is keeping Ollie Watkins fit now. Robert, I'll just say with that one, if they do play Marcus Rashford there, it's a different scenario with him there because you've got Morgan Rodgers, who plays in that 10-role, who's sensational. Like you said, you've got Essencio. And let's not forget, they've got Tillamons in the midfield as well, where Marcus Rashford would be getting an abundance of chances

with the new kind of appetite that he's shown. It would be a different environment to when he did do that for Manchester United. Absolutely. So let's finish off. So Villa on the road in the the last day of the FA Cup. They've got to go to Deepdale and play Preston, who going into the weekend, they played Burnley in this Lancashire derby. The first time they'd ever played each other in the FA Cup. It was something like the 144th meeting between the two of them down the years, but the first time they played each other

in the FA Cup. Burnley conceded more goals at the weekend, three, than they'd done in the previous 15 matches in all competitions combined, two. So they managed to do it, they're through to the quarterfinals for the first time since 1966. Let's finish off the pod by hearing from their manager, Paul Heckenbottom. We were good and I'm delighted that, yeah, the atmosphere was crackling and obviously our fans have gone home happy today. You're the first manager to guide Preston to the last day

at the FA Cup since England won the World Cup, so you must be delighted with that, G. Yeah, that's obviously something I only discovered this week and, yeah, so for the fans of the club, it's a big victory. And yeah, that's an astonishing fact. I found it astonishing, the club with its history and the amount of good teams it's had. So yeah, that's a big thing.

And for the supporters now, they can sit tight and get excited about the draw. Yes, they can. They're at home again, Robbo. So that's not a gimme for Aston Villa. Deepdale, quarterfinal of the Cup, big day for Preston, well done to Paul Hekenbottom and his players but that's a tough assignment for Villa. He's done well there Paul Hekenbottom and what I've seen of Preston since he's gone in there I think it's a style of football that he's

changed as well since he's gone in there and as you say it's the quarterfinal of the FA Cup Villa won't be relishing a challenge at Preston. I think you know no disrespect to Preston but everybody wanted Preston at home, nobody would have fancied going there but the way that Paul Hekenbottom is recruited with his backroom staff and the way that they've changed I think that there are Preston side who are playing the best football that I've seen them play for a number of years now. I think they're in a really good place and like you say I don't like the saying it's a free hit but it absolutely is for them. Enjoy it.

Nigel, final thoughts just about out of time. Final thoughts from you? When you look at these teams, we've gone into this next round now. It's one of those years where we say the FA Cup is truly alive and well and I think it's anybody's competition and big teams, only just big teams on paper when you look at this now. So, happy for football winning. Well said. Congratulations if your team got through this weekend. Commiserations if your team went out. We wish the eight remaining teams in the FA Cup all the very best in the quarterfinals. That's it for this episode of the Football Daily.

Robbo, thank you. Thank you. Pleasure, as always. Nige, always a pleasure. Thank you, fine gentlemen. So on Monday night on 5Live and BBC Sounds, we've got live commentary of Forrest against Ipswich. The winners at the Amex in the quarterfinals against Brighton. Kick-off is at 7.30.

And the next Football Daily podcast will be a Champions League preview with John Bennett, Rory Smith and Nedda Manoa. Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful British manager of all time. Southshire has won the European Cup for Manchester United. So how did this apprentice toolmaker from Glasgow become one of the most iconic figures in sporting history? His strength, his character, his determination, the fight. Ferguson was every department.

He can be persuasive, he can be determination, the fight in him. Ferguson was every department. He can be persuasive, he can be charming, he can be frightening. Go down as the best, it's as simple as that. I'm Kelly Cates and this is Sporting Giants Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to feel, I couldn't feel. Listen on BBC Sounds.