Football Daily - FA Cup Debrief: Plymouth stun Liverpool & Leyton Orient limbs

Episode Date: February 9, 2025

Rick Edwards is joined by Clinton Morrison and The Telegraph’s Luke Edwards. They reflect on a dramatic weekend in the FA Cup, from the Championship’s bottom club Plymouth Argyle knocking out Premier League leaders Liverpool, to Jamie Donley scoring a worldie for Leyton Orient against Manchester City. And catch Ange Postecoglou’s comments after Tottenham lost to Aston Villa.05:45 Plymouth Argyle knock out Liverpool 10:25 Miron Muslić: ‘The world was watching’ 20:35 Arne Slot: ‘These players should’ve been able to win’ 23:30 Pilgrim Pete causes chaos 27:25 Leyton Orient wondergoal vs Man City 35:30 Goal of the round? 36:45 Ange Postecoglou after Tottenham defeat 45:10 Marcus Rashford returns 48:30 Refreshing lack of VAR?BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this week: Mon 10 Feb 1945 Doncaster v Crystal Palace in FA Cup, Tue 11 Feb 2000 Exeter vs Nottingham Forest in FA Cup on 5 Sports Extra, Tue 11 Feb 2000 Man City vs Real Madrid in UEFA Champions League, Wed 12 Feb 2000 Celtic vs Bayern Munich in UEFA Champions League.

BBC Sounds music radio podcast. The Football Daily podcast. The debrief. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello and welcome to the Football Daily. It's the FA Cup debrief with me, Rick Edwards. And joining me today, our former Crystal Palace striker, Clinton Morrison. You're at Clinton. Yeah. How are you, mate?

Yeah, I'm very good. Thank you. Well done for making up the stairs. that's half the battle in them yes we did it didn't we it was quite easy today it was better because we got a man we didn't have to wait for someone to use their path you just you basically chirps the man on the door yeah yeah and then he came and sorted this out so it was actually it was a relatively straightforward process for once and Luke telegraphs Luke Edwards slightly informal of me'd need to immediately go first name, as a late Norian fan, as someone who was in the stands against Manchester City

and saw that goal and then I assume had a night out in London, it's basically the best weekend of your life isn't it? It was a fantastic weekend, honestly yesterday at Brisbane Road, seeing my 81 year old dad before the game, who was like a small child, I may have joined in with some rude chants about geographical locations. Yes. Manchester City's players got off the coach. No, honestly, it was brilliant. Everything amazing about the FA Cup and I think that goal, the Jamie Donnelly, I'm going to call it the Jamie Donnelly goal because I know the history books are going to say it was an own goal,

but it's the Jamie Donnelly goal.'m gonna call it the Jamie Donnelly goal because I know the history books are gonna say it was an own goal but it's the Jamie Donnelly goal. It is, I completely agree, it's one of those where you go it's really important that we all remember that guy's name and that's and say that was his goal because it's his goal, it's his goal, come on. One of the best goals I've ever seen live in a stadium and I might be slightly biased because I'm a late United fan but it's a sensationally good goal. I can't believe he gave it to Ortega. It's his goal. It's fantastic. The audacity to try that from there is ridiculous. Yeah, it just strikes it so sweetly.

It's not a looper. It's not a looper, it's a zingerberg. It's a bit spicy. A little bit spicy. What have you been up to this weekend, Clinton? I just covered a bit on the Plymouth-Liverpool game, which wasn't the best of results. I've got a lot of Liverpool fans, they're not happy, but in the same breath they're thinking they can concentrate now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but also it's great. I mean, we'll get on to it. It's great for the FA Cup. I'm a Liverpool fan. Yeah, it's a great story. It is a great story. Being bottom of the championship and managing to beat Liverpool, even though it was smash and grab because they did play for that, but they deserved it in the end. Yeah, yeah,. Yeah completely. Fully deserved, fully deserved yeah you know just one of the one of the great things of this weekend yeah yeah I'm gonna put my feelings on that very clear I thought it's hilarious. Sorry what?

Funny? Yeah I've got a lot of Liverpool supporting friends and yeah they're great seasoners and are winning everything and then they lose to Plymouth in the FA Cup brilliant yeah no I'm inclined to agree actually um Clinton if I said to you boxing day 2009 would that mean anything to you boxing day 2009 so first of all who were you playing for? 2009? 2009 boxing day yeah I would have been was it not what Palace was it? No, no It was not Palace Clinton. No, it was Coventry then. It was Coventry. Yeah, I knew it was Coventry after that. So you're playing under Chris Colwyn. Yeah, is it FA Cup weekend? Is it FA Cup? No, no, it's championship Yeah, and I mentioned this because Palace are playing Doncaster Rovers, League 2 Doncaster Rovers tomorrow. You're on Coventry tomorrow night.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah. Coventry are playing, Doncaster, Boxing Day 2009. What happens? Wow, 2009. That's many years ago. You should know this, Clinton. When you know, when you hear the context. I must have scored in that game, why not bring it up? Because, yeah, I did score a lot for Coventry. Yeah. But Doncaster, they were good. So they're in a good league then.

They must have been in the champ then. They were in the champ. Yeah, yeah champ then. I didn't get sent off. We won the game and I scored. You came on 80th minute, five minutes later, scored a pen. Oh there you go, well penalties, that's what I do. Yeah, yeah, you scored a pen, you scored a pen. I probably weren't on penalties but I thought why am I on the bench, I'm coming on to take this ball and put it in. Well do you know what, so Chris Colman afterwards said as soon as the penalty is given I knew there was only one man who's gonna take it I was delighted for Clinton. However he then adds it's not easy when

you haven't scored for some time. Yeah I hadn't scored for a long time but he is cheeky but he's a good boss I got on well with him but probably gave him a lift home after that I always used to give him a lift home after the games. Hang on, but what of course Colman? Yeah because he lived in London and when I went back to London to visit family he always got out for a lift so I said you better start me then. I remember once where we had a big argument and it was a massive argument in there and I was thinking I'm not going to give him a lift but I did give him a lift home. The whole way it was a bit silence. How often did you have arguments with managers? Oh quite often. I look back now and said probably I should respect my managers a lot more than I did but I think back then I had an opinion and I would always give my opinion. You look at it now when you're older and wiser and you think they were doing it to help you.

Was it always effectively, why aren't I starting? Yeah, yeah it would be why am I not starting. I've scored much more goals than that centre forward that's playing there. He's not delivering so please explain to me. Was there anyone who was playing ahead of you at any of your clubs who you thought, you know what, fair play? Yeah, good one. Probably Birmingham.

There was two probably at the time. It was probably Heskey and Forsell. It was at Chelsea. Yeah. Me and Heskey had a brilliant partnership, but individually, I think them two at the time were playing better than me and deserved to start. So that was the only two that I could really hold my hand up and say Steve Bruce made the right decision. Then he brought in a guy, watered a Pandiani and played him ahead of me and I said,

no, you've made the wrong decision. And then you had a party. And then I had a party. And then he knows. Knock, knock, knock. Any day, Joe. Let me guess, is it Clinton? Yes, it is.

All right, let's get into the FA Cup. This is the FA Cup review rather than just a review of the arguments Cluj has had in his time. Bottom of the championship, beating top of the Premier League, Plymouth are gone, 1-0 winners against Liverpool, Ryan Hardy second half penalty. I've got to say, I think thoroughly deserved and in the first half an hour or so Plymouth had the better chances, Luke. They did, they really did, no, fully deserved and one of the great FA Cup upsets. But the only thing I will say is that team sheet

from Liverpool was brave. I think what we saw, I am gonna call him Slotty. I don't know why, I don't quite know how this is gonna go down, but I think Slotty underestimated the FA Cup he's new to it obviously you have some knowledge of it from from being in the Netherlands but I do think on this occasion Slotty underestimated just what I don't think Slotty's gonna get a fly from me. Are we getting rid of Slotty? Slotmeister? No. Anymore? Should I just call him Slot? Yeah. I think yeah, Slot works, doesn't it? Yeah. Slotty Timothee?

I only say this in the context of, you know, Pep Guardiola went to Leighton Orient who are in League One and he took the insurance policy of the Breuner and Voden and he brought them both on to win the game. When Slott and Liverpool were in a little bit of trouble, he had a load of kids on a field trip. He'd take them for the day out. I know that may be a little bit disrespectful, but there were, apart from Nunes,

there were no senior players on the bench. So look, I think it's wonderful for Plymouth. I think they fully deserved it. And I think what we have seen this weekend is the Premier League teams aren't used to playing against this sort of direct football. The sort of really basic things used to be a staple when Clinton was playing.

Long balls up to the big man, balls in behind, long throws put into the area, crosses one into the box. I mean, Orient caused Manchester City problems with it and Plymouth caused all sorts of problems with that pretty rudimentary tactics. Caused of problems for Liverpool and I thought they were completely deserved winners. Yeah and it obviously means a lot to a town like Plymouth, sorry City, Five Live reporter John Akers, he lives down there, he presents a breakfast show on BBC Radio Devon, this

is how he summed it all up on Five Live at full time. Days like this don't really happen down here, I mean this club in the last 15 years has on Five Live at full time. into the championship. They've got the second lowest budget in the league. You know, looks like they could still be relegated and Millwall here in the week is a huge game, bigger than this one. But these days don't happen very often. Plymouth on a peninsula down in the southwest, you know, transport links aren't the best. You know, we don't see a lot of big concerts, we don't see a lot of huge sporting events. So when something like this happens in a city like this, which is a big passionate city by the way, which is out of the way, it means everything to these people. It means everything to these fans who work hard week in, week out in the

dockyard away to my left hand side in tourism, making the 4000 pasties for this one. It's a huge, huge day for this football club. 4000 pasties. That's a lot of pasties. You could hear John actually getting a little bit emotional there because moments like that, days like today, mean just so much, especially when you're going through hard times. And I guess those players, this will be one of the things that they remember when they look back on their career, Clinton. Yeah, definitely. You've been in Liverpool who, for me, will go on and be Premier League champions who are the best team in Europe at the moment. I know it wasn't Liverpool's first XI, but it's still

a quality on the pitch that you defended in your numbers. I thought the goalkeeper Hazard made two outstanding saves later on and the back line, every time the back line made a block, they were celebrating. We had to show their muscles. Love that, actually. Yeah, I loved it. Because if to show their muscles and flexes. Yeah, I loved it. Because if you're a centre forward, you score goals, you celebrate. So why can't you celebrate a block as a centre-half?

I thought there was great togetherness and they've been poor. They have the worst defensive record, I think, out of everyone in all the leagues. And you would never have known that. Never would have known that. So fair play to the new manager who's done a really good job and set them up ever so well. Still going to be a struggle to stay up in the championship. I do think it will be a struggle, but days like this don't come along that often and I think that is the beauty of the FA Cup. You mentioned the boss, Miro Muzlic. It's a one-win in three months, I think, in the

championship for Plymouth, bottom of the league, and he was understandably thrilled. We just realised what it means for the green army, what it means for us as a club but also for Plymouth as a city. It was a big, big day and we just wanted to represent Argyll as best as possible because the stage is big, it's the FA Cup, it's the biggest cup in the world and the world is watching. So that's an opportunity to shine and to represent green and white as best as possible and the lads just did it in an outstanding way. What was your plan? To defend structured, organised, to enjoy to defend because it's Liverpool, they will

put pressure on you, they will force us to defend deep and we simply have to enjoy to defend, to throw ourselves in every duel. We didn't allow them a lot, that says a lot about our game plan about our defensive structure and we knew if we can Manage to defend structures and organize we will have also with transition opportunities And I think we've been there also very very dangerous So the plan was to keep them as far away from our goal to be just annoying to be competitive in every duel And I think we did it you've only been here a month But I feel like we've done gone through all the range of emotions

of being people who are involved in football. It's been extraordinary, your month, hasn't it, really, as Argyle manager? I think if we can survive this month, we can survive everything. So a lot of ups and downs, but this is just a part of our journey, a part of football. And I'm grateful and happy for every moment. Where does this rank for you in football as a day? No doubt it's the biggest moment also in my coaching career and hopefully I will find the time also to enjoy it.

And this cup competition, you'd have watched it as a boy, you know, you're still in it. That's the beauty of this game, that's the magic of the FA Cup, we are looking forward for the next opponent, hopefully we're going to have them here in Home Park. We're not afraid. Take on anyone now, can't you? We are ready. Yeah, fascinating story around Maslits actually. You can have a look at on the BBC Sport website.

Fled Bosnia was a nine-year-old in 1992. He talked there about enjoying defending, being annoying. And they're very clearly, as you mentioned, Clinton did enjoy defending and they were annoying and seeing those kind of, you know, like the celebrations, a number of clearances that was at Katich made and it was nuts and you just kind of, you couldn't have asked for anything different from those players, did exactly what they set out to do Luke. Yeah, absolutely and I just want to get this sort of off my chest. And I get, I have described the people who keep knocking the FA Cup as it's tedious now.

It hasn't lost any of its magic. Only one team can actually win the FA Cup. But in every round, you have these times going right down to like the early qualifying rounds, getting into the first round proper, and non league teams facing league teams. These are, and it's become a cliche, so people scoff at it, but it is like their cup final. Every round has that. Those Plymouth supporters in the ground today will remember that game for the rest of their lives.

OK, Liverpool supporters can quickly forget about it. They've got bigger prizes to compete for. They've got more glamorous games to come. They were in a Premier League, you know, they can win the Premier League, they can win the, they're in the Carabao Cup final, they could win the Champions League. But for those Plymouth supporters, that's absolute wonderland stuff. There'll be children there who will remember it

for the rest of their life. I've talked about my 81 year old dad going to watch late and all right, how excited he has, how many years he's been supporting that football club and he still gets that excited. So Plymouth celebrating tackles, winning throw-ins, every, you know, every shot is cheered, every attack is cheered. It's a brilliant atmosphere and football is not just about the elite clubs.

There is a football pyramid that we should be very, very proud of in this country and the FA Cup is one of the greatest things about English football and it will continue to be for 10, 20, 30 years no matter how many people try and knock it because you get days like that from Plymouth and Plymouth Highgall Football Club today. There's a great stat here actually that I've got. Nicola Katic made 11 headed clearances. It's the most by a player in a match against Liverpool

in nearly five years. And celebrated every one of them. Yeah. I mean, that's the other thing, every time they made a tackle, they celebrated like a goal. Now you can't do that every week in the championship. No. But for these one-off, these one-off,

it'd be great if they did actually, but for this one off game with that sort of atmosphere, that's just how much it meant to the players. I think he also swore quite spectacularly in his post-match interview as well with words I can't repeat on the podcast because he was so taken away by the excitement of the occasion and the brilliance of the occasion. And I know I shouldn't say I love that but I do love that. I also loved it, it made me laugh a lot. But yeah it's just a wonderful day for Plymouth Football Club and I'm all here for that and there'll be

other wonderful stories next year as well. When you've got defenders like that up against you as a striker and they are relishing the task of defending their goal and defending against you. Does it sort of get to you a bit, Clinton? Yeah, it does. And I think it got to Diogo Jota. You saw him having a lot of battles with the three centre-halves. And Katic in particular, I thought was outstanding.

There was one mistake between him and Hazard. And you saw when he headed it to McConnell in the second half, and McConnell took the touch and probably would be scoring. He drags it wide. And then they go to each other and have a heated discussion and yeah probably some choice words with Saint-Jean. I think so yeah. But then Hazard in the end makes two spectacular saves but I thought Katic, the captain led by example, I think they brought him in recently and he enjoyed every minute of it and that

is what the FA Cup's all about. He's playing against the best there, he had Luis Diaz, Diogo Jota and also he had Kieser. These are three top quality players and they did ever so well to restrict Liverpool as well. Do you sometimes, when you submit a really good article, Luke, do you celebrate? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I do a little scarf twirl or run off for older listeners. I go and do a Klinsman sometimes when I nail a big exclusive across my front room. Just knee slide, it's great. I can go real buzz out of it.

I can imagine you. I can't do it every game, but you know, the really big, like the really big articles. The big articles. The big articles. Big article, big scoop. Suddenly he's ravennelling all over the front room. Yeah, I mean.

Oh, brilliant. Is it, you mentioned this actually, Luke, I mean... Oh brilliant. You mentioned this actually, Lou. Is it sort of a blueprint for how to play against some of these, I was going to say so-called, but actually it just doesn't need to be so-called, bigger teams, better teams, that you get, you just defend well. And as the manager was saying,

you will get chances on transition. And if you go direct and quickly, they're just sort of slightly not used to it because everyone plays in quite a similar way in the Premier League now. They all play the right way in the top flight now, so they play out from the back and they pass it between the lines and they have inverted full backs and it's all pretty little patterns and triangles and what not. Boring, isn't it?

Get it up to the big man! Get it in there. I can't believe I can't believe I'm saying this, but it looks like a lot of these top English clubs have actually forgotten how to deal with it. It's like it's a shock to them. And I also think that I don't know about you, Clinton, but I don't know whether the referees are doing this deliberately, but they seem to be a lot more lenient in the FA Cup. They're letting more flow.

And the big teams have been roughed up. You've seen it. Even Birmingham Newcastle on Saturday evening, Birmingham were really physical and Newcastle didn't like that. They had to really dig in. These games are turning into a fight and a scrap. So as well as the direct tactics,

do you think that's leveling things out a little bit, Clinton? Yeah, I agree with you. And also I think not having VAR, the referees can ref the game how they want to ref it. And yeah, they should be strong tackles and tackles should be allowed. Obviously, if you go over the top, you get a yellow card. So I think, yeah, the referees are doing and that's what we like. I want to see tackles. I don't like, I watched the game and know I'm going off track here a bit, but Liverpool, Tottenham in midweek Tottenham did not lay a glove on any of the Liverpool players.

You think Plymouth would have gone there and they might have gone to Anfield and lost, but at least lay a glove and know that you've been in a cup time. I think that's the difference here. And I do think the refs are being a bit more lenient and we need more of that. You would never have guessed, I think, I mean, maybe once you looked at the team sheets,

but that Liverpool, who I think I'm right at saying the top scorers in the Premier League, would go to a team who have conceded 63 in the championship and not score. And they're open play XG, and I know, you know, you sort of take XG with a pinch of salt, but 0.44, the lowest in a game under... It's crazy....Arnestlot so far. And you've got to say they had, yeah, they had a couple of half chances, but not really. Not really anything more than that. Never really properly threatened.

Probably right at the very end Nunez would score that header. You're putting it that way aren't you? Yeah definitely. You just fake it. That was where I made all my… Banging on slot store? Why am I not starting? That's why I made a living... Banging on slot store? Yeah, that's what I said. Why am I not starting?

That's how I made a living scoring from the six yard box. I wasn't good enough outside the box, but in the box I'd make sure I'd pull it. I had everything into the net and I just think Nunes was a bit tentative once he did it, even though it's a good save from Hazard. I don't think they created enough. I don't think it was good enough. I think they had another chance where Hazard made an outstanding save, but that was all about Diogo Jota.

Oh, that volley. With a great little strike volley in that. And that was a brilliant save. Other than that, they look flat. Even like, I like him as a player. Harvey Elliott giving the ball away low. It just wasn't a good game for him, was it? But that can happen though.

Yeah. It looked like it was. It looked like the bottom of their priority list. I think that, I mean, as I said, they're all in the Carabao Cup final. They're top of the Premier League. They've got a Merseyside Derby coming up up and they've got the Champions League. So it looks like the fourth most important competition to them at this stage of the season and they've ended

up paying the price. It's a flat performance, but he picked a weakened team, he took a risk, he gambled and it backfired. It's not, I mean, me and Clinton were talking about this on the way up the stairs, that the, something where we have our best chats. Yeah, exactly. The thing is, as you you mentioned you take an insurance policy It's not really a the starting lineup fine But you have some of your big hitters on the bench and you hope you don't have to play them

But just in case you want to be able to go yeah, right Sala Graven Burch Macalester Gakpo on you go gets a goal and they're in a bit of trouble Yeah, but you looked at our bench you're like I'm after Google so are these guys. I don't know where these people are. I think he's probably learnt a bit of a lesson on us a lot. Here is the Liverpool manager. Yeah it took a long time before we created our first chances and that was down to them. They worked incredibly hard, defended really well and And yeah, it's my first FA Cup game, but my memory of the FA Cup are games like this, teams like this that play every ball long, fight for every ball.

And unfortunately we weren't able to create many chances and yeah, a penalty, which was a correct decision, led to the fact that we lost with 1-0. Obviously you made 10 changes to the team which had played Spurs and everybody understands why you have a very, very punishing schedule. Any regrets about that or do you feel young players have to play sometimes? I don't think there were many young players in the team. Most of them are players where everybody is constantly telling us, and I agree with these people, that we have a very strong squad. And if these players come from the bench, they always help us.

That's definitely not an excuse that the starters weren't here. These players should be able to win a game like this as well. But we also knew that this is a difficult game because of their playing style and yeah not good enough to win the game or we should say they played a very good game. Yeah I mean fairly sort of sanguine reflection I think from from Arna Slocke there understands that Plymouth played really well and did a did a job on them. If you are in that Plymouth dressing room though, when that team sheet comes out you are thinking we've got a chance here. Liverpool could have put out

a team where they would think ooh but with that team sheet it's sort of leaving the door open a bit isn't it Luke? Yeah I think so. I think you either take it two ways, you may be a little bit insulted that they think they can send out their reserves and beat you? I think it probably gives you a little bit of extra motivation on that. And like you say, you think it gives us a chance. It's not the Liverpool team who are top of the Premier League. It's not the same Liverpool team that are one of the favourites for the Champions League. It is their, largely, their reserve team.

And it's particularly the bench. It's the bench is the only thing, I think we've just said there, the sort of tone of his interview was about right, he wasn't looking for excuses. And he was respectful in everything he said about Plymouth as well. So I've got no complaints for that. And I think Liverpool can still go on

and have a wonderful campaign. This is just a little sort of, they've stubbed their foot on a rock, haven't they really? And it hurts for now, but it will soon be soon be forgotten. You know what? I like the interview from Slott. He's saying, yeah, I understand. We didn't play youngsters. It was still a strong side, basically saying the players that came in and making an impact off the bench didn't do it today. So don't knock my door when you don't get another opportunity for a bit. Don't do a Clinton. Don't do a Clinton. Don't do a Clinton.

Just before we move on, I did want to mention the Plymouth mascot, Pilgrim Pete. Do you see him? Pilgrim Pete had a day. He had a day. He had a day. I think there's a few scary mascots out there. But he's right up there for me. Do you ever fight with a photographer?

He sort of like WWE moved the photographer out but he tore him like wrestle him to the floor and did some like maneuver. Only he'd been done for assault like generally out on the street if he did that. But actually when you're dressed as a mascot you can get away with some stuff can't you? Yeah you can get away with it. Match day mascot just get away with it. He was enjoying himself. He's going to remember today for the rest of his life as well, Pilgrim Pete. Right, we're going to have a little break but I've got a half time teaser for you. Lucky boys. Never get these, Clinton.

I'll be honest, I think this is quite hard as well. Plymouth Argyle are only the fourth team from outside the top flight to beat the team at the top of the Premier League in the FA Cup. I'll give that to you one more time so you've got it in your head. Plymouth are only the fourth team from outside the top flight to beat the team at the top of the Premier League at the time in the FA Cup. Can you name any of the other three teams to achieve this feat? And think the answer is from Five Life Sport. As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. We're punching well above our weight already. We're a part-time team in a full-time league.

Hopefully we can stay in the league in that HDA. We're in a great position at the moment and long may that continue. That's 72 Plus, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily from outside the top flight to beat the team at the top of the Premier League at the time in the FA Cup. Can you name any of the other three teams to achieve this feat?

I mean have you got any ideas at all? I'll have one guess. Bradford, Bradford City. Oh he's got one! That's amazing. That's good, that's good. He's definitely googled that. Yeah. No really, no really, no really. It's a famous one. No it is. It went into the dressing room afterwards. Oh is it? Yeah it is, it is famous. I don't think I've got, I was going to say Wiganigan but no Oh Wigan against who Man City? No, I thought I thought when they beat them yeah All right, this is good guy so Chelsea Bradford was 2015 City Wigan was 2018 one yet now this one this one

Do you want a clue? Yeah, okay? Yeah. Now this one, this one, do you want a clue? Yes, go on. Okay. So this team did not go on to win the Premier League, but they were top. So this is a, this is like an early January fixture and the year is 2002. Oh wow, 2002. I was playing in the Premier, so who was top in 2002? Yeah, but top around sort of Christmas. They dropped off and I don't know where they finished, but... It's not a team that would... It's not Stevenage Newcastle, is it?

That was 90s. What a show. That is, by the way. No. No, I won't get this. Verdict is playing up top. Leeds? Yeah.

Who did Leeds get beaten by? Oh my God. My life was very different in 2002. I was out a lot on the weekends. What was... How old were you then? Young. This is a sad... Nine or something? The sadness in your voice. Nine or something.

I can't remember, I was playing so I was too... We probably lost on that day. It was Cardiff. To be honest, I think getting two is decent. Alright, let's go on to Manchester City then. Survived a bit of a scare, came from behind to beat Ligue 1 late in the Orient, your team Luke. The opening goal, we've already mentioned it, is just outrageous. Hasn't been given to him, to Jamie Donnelly, will by every

fan who's seen that goal will always be given to him. His goal, for sure. This is what Pep Guardiola made of it. I love the FA Cup, I love these crowds, I love these vibes. That's why this is the most exciting competition, especially in this country. But I just congratulate the incredible goal, incredible kick and so quality. And the moment the ball was flying I said, I said oh oh so he's going to do something special congratulate for the guy who made it to our goal. He was a really good man entertaining game like he's a fair cap so in the situation that we are happy to continue this competition.

Really lovely to hear an uh oh from Pär. And let's hear from the man himself Leightonon Norrins, on loan with fielder Jamie Donnelly. I knew it felt for me nicely and I saw him off his line and luckily it went in and yeah I'm having a very happy moment. I mean is that one you're going to be watching back time and time again showing the rest of the family? Yeah it would have been a lot nicer if we won so it's a bit disappointing we lost but yes it's a good moment. Last time we were together on this pod it was just before Christmas Luke and you, oh no hang on it's just after Christmas and you had become addicted to a game called Battle Cats Unite was that what it was? I think I was on that. Yeah you were.

I remember him saying it. And what so, what is better Battle battle cats unite or that goal? call by Zin what others in the In the machine stands level with the six yard box to the side of the at the end it was scored So as he hit it Your brain does this weird thing? It's like doing a golf shot where you're sort of like looking at the ball But also looking where the goal is and I thought as as he hit it, that has got a chance. I mean, that has got, you could just tell Clinton, like you just knew he'd hit it perfectly.

But you're then, that time stands still. I mean, football fans will know what I'm talking about. You're just waiting, you're waiting. He's in the air, he's traveling. You look, you can see Ortega struggling. You knew straight away, Ortega knew he was struggling straight away as well. And then there was this weird moment where it dropped and I thought that's going in,

it's going in and it just clips the crossbar. But in the time it took like a groan to form in your like as it's just about to project a groan it bounces in and it turns into a chair. I haven't seen limbs like that at Brisbane Road for a long long time time, if ever. You know, even losing the game, it just didn't really seem to matter because we were never really expected to win against Manchester City. We just gave them a really, really good game. We were in the game.

We were threatening to knock them out. And we're probably not gonna play the team that's leading the Premier League again, certainly not in my dad's lifestyle, I'm sorry, lifetime, not to get too melancholy about it, but that is what he said afterwards. He said, I won't see this happen again now, and this won't happen lifestyle, I'm sorry, lifetime, not to get too melancholy about it, but that is what he said afterwards, he said, I won't see this happen again now, and this won't happen again while I'm alive.

And that makes me feel quite emotional, but also just incredibly proud of the football club and everything that goes with it. Because those memories, long after he's gone, I will remember how he was that day, and just how much it means to me. This is why football's so great. It is great, it is. This is, football is so great. It is great. People

who don't like football should just listen to this. Yeah because that's what it's about. That is about. Luke started being there witnessing what a goal. That's one of the best FA Cup goals you'll ever see for a very long time, if not one of the best ever. I know it's gone down as an all-taker but we're not giving it away. We need to campaign Clinton. Exactly, I can't fail him. And you know what? I was like, I was working, but I was half had an eye on the game. Leigh Doreen had a big chance right at the end. A great ball into the box.

I'm thinking, go and score, you deserve something. And it took Man City to bring on De Bruyne and Foden to change the game. A bit of brilliance from Kevin De Bruyne and Jack Greelish, a great pass. But they done well, Leigh Doreen. I think under Richie Wellens. They were time wasting, Clinton. Yeah, they were time wasting. They were time wasting.

Mighty Manchester City. That's a good leg. That must make you feel good yeah they're like yeah. It did I let Kevin De Bruyne know that as well. Do you want to say what you were saying? Yeah it was fine I just said you're wasting time Kevin how embarrassing is this. Little old Leighton Orient give them a chance. Give them a chance Kevin Kevin. Really is. How good is Donnelly then? Because Orient fans really like him, don't they? He's brilliant, yeah. He took a little bit of time.

So I know Richie Welland's the Orient manager quite well. And they were really excited to get him. But he was taking a little bit of time. Clinton will know this. He come from sort of under 21s football. He hadn't really played any men's football. And I would say he was quite a slow starter, but he's really sort of got to grips of it now.

Technically brilliant. He's really, you know, he's been assisting and scoring goals. I went to Barnsley away just before Christmas and we won 4-0 and he scored his first goal for the club there. And he just hasn't looked back since. He's a class above league one.

I think talking to Richie and sort of people around who've seen him play a lot, he might need to just try and develop a little extra yard of pace over the first sort of five metres, if that makes sense, that sort of explosive pace to be at the really, really top elite level. I'm talking Champions League level, going to play for his country. Whether he can get that little extra yard of pace, I don't know, but a very, very talented footballer. Can you do that? You can't just get extra pace, can you? You just sort of got what you've got. Clinton's nodding. Clinton's saying yes, but I think the idea was you can just be a bit more explosive,

you can build up a bit of strength just to be able to get away from players. I don't know, I'm not a coach. You're sounding like a coach, so I'm gonna believe you. Yeah, okay. If he can get that extra hard pace, work in the gym, I think you can get faster. Sprinters can get faster, can't they? So there are things you can work on.

Yes, yeah, up to a point, I think. He's a very good player and we're very lucky to have him. Orient now, they've got a real chance of promotion. And I'm gonna just say this this in December, start of December, they're in a relegation battle. They're now on the cusp of the playoffs. They've lost one game in 10, I think it is in the league. They've got a huge game against Mansfield on Tuesday.

Getting back up to the second tier of English football, which they haven't been in since the 80s, the early 80s would be stunning. And what a job British Wellsie Wellands has done. But look yesterday was kind of put, we didn't want extra time if Hape scores that goal late on we get extra time and even Ritchie said that afterwards the players were dead on their feet and actually extra time wouldn't have been good for them with that game on Tuesday but it was just so special anyway. I don't even care that we lost it's one of those games I don't even care we lost I was so proud. I've got a note here saying that you spoke to Guardiola afterwards, did you?

Yeah, I mean I was there as a fan and a journalist, so I was sort of combining roles. So I watched the game as a fan in the stands and then went and did my job afterwards. Peppered caused a bit of disgruntlement in East London by referring to them consistently as Leighton. Nobody is either Orient or Leighton-Orient, Nobody, it's either Orient or Leighton, but generally it's just Orient. So I just thanked him for his very kind words in the press conference afterwards. And then just said, can I just point out Pep that you've called them Leighton, nobody calls them Leighton. It's either Orient or Leighton. I'm not sure he understood that.

And Pep just said, uh, I don't, I don't, he's not, he's not a man famed for his sense of humor. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I regret doing it or not. But I have a listen. I know you have huge respect for the FA Cup. I do have to give you a small correction. It's Orient late and they get very defensive about it. Listen, I don't want to offend anyone. I've been offended many times but I don't want to offend. Don't worry. All of you talk about me and me don't talk about you, so don't offend me. I'm so sorry for the people for this lovely stadium. Not your finest hour though actually, was it? No, we're fine-type possibly. I was also wearing a late in orange scarf. Not great.

Let's pick goal of the round. Aside from Donley's which is slightly moving. Oh I know, next. For me, it's got to be Birmingham's second goal. Iwata. Iwata, yeah that's the best goal. What a hit that is. Unbelievable technique. Oh I love that. I love those ones.

Yeah, that was the best for me. The technique was unreal. I heard the stadium was shaking. It was a fantastic strike. You could have had two or three goalkeepers in there. They wouldn't have saved that. It was a great technique. Yeah, it's a classic stayed hit, Luke.

Yeah, you're going to get no argument from me. Incredible. Running onto it on the move as well and the power he gets. Can I also just point out the best assist of the round as well was William Asula in the same game who somehow took a shot, kicked it against the back of his own leg and it looted up to Callum Wilson. Genius move, that'll be in coaching. What happened next that is? Doing the Asula. Yes so that finished Birmingham 2 Newcastle 3 and then the game that we've all just watched the

late game on Sunday Villa beating Tottenham 2-1 another Tottenham defeat another lovely interview with Antropostokoglu here he is with John Southall. Obviously it's been a difficult few days. How damaging do you think it has been the last three days? Look, I can't praise this group of players high enough. For the last two and a half months in the middle of November, we've had nine, ten, eleven players out from our first team and this group of players has just been going out at competition after competition. You take nine, ten, eleven players out of any team for one weekend,

I reckon it'll affect them. We've been like this since the middle of November so players are given everything. Yep, we've fallen short the last couple of games obviously but you know we get a couple of midweeks off now, the next couple of weeks we'll get some players back and you know I'm sure they'll give this group of players a chance to recover and get ready for a strong finish. And for you is that the bottom line as you say you had 11 players playing 12 today, is that the issue or is there more than that? Well I'll ask you the question if you take 11 players how do Liverpool go today? Yeah I agree they made a lot of changes so do you think the issue is just the injured players?

Well, I think it's, we're not talking about one or two. We're talking, and not just for one weekend, by the way. So get Liverpool to do that for the next two and a half months. Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying to you that that's the facts. And now people want to dismiss that or use that as, say that's an excuse. There can't be any more than that when you've asked.

We had 14-agers start the game today. Four teenagers, two 18 year olds, 17 year old, 19 year old, 21 year old goalkeeper coming to Villa, top side in the Champions League, doing really well. After playing Thursday night against Liverpool, best team in the country, strongest team in the country. After playing Brentford last Sunday, same group of players. I'm not rotating the score. So what I'm saying is this is not an excuse all I'm saying is I can't be critical of this group of players there's

nothing more other than they're given everything mentally physically they're exhausted it's been two and a half months so they need a rest and they've given all they can and that's all you can ask for. And do you think the powers that be appreciate that situation and how do you see your situation at the club? It's got nothing to do with me. Whether people think I'm doing a good job or not, it's not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is when you're looking at where we're

at at the moment, the biggest factor for where we are right now is the fact that we've had the majority of our team missing. I can name your starting 11 from the guys who are out today that would take on any team in the country. But I suppose the question is are those people who make the decisions, are they aware of that, do they take that on board? That's not really important to me. What's important to me is that when people keep delving

into these players and they're not playing well, they're not doing this or there's none of this, they're given everything. They're human beings that for two and a half months have given everything they can. So that's what's important. So there's nothing deeper than that. So they'll get, like I said, we've got a couple of midweeks off, we've got seven days to prepare for the next game, which is a luxury for us. We'll get some players back, which I think will definitely help. Not just from a physical perspective, from a mental perspective, just to see some players, some significant players coming back into the group and that'll help this group of players

enormously now to kind of get over this disappointment and finish the season strong. Thanks for telling us, thank you. Well as always, there's lots of enjoying there. I don't know where to start really. He says right at the beginning of that interview, I cannot praise this group of players enough and my first thought is maybe stop praising them so much because they're doing terribly. You know what I mean? You can't just keep coming out and going, well they were fantastic when you keep getting beaten, can you? No, yeah I know what you're saying but I hear what he's saying, he can praise that group

of players because of the youngsters that he had on there. He is right. They do have a lot of senior players missing at the moment, so it would always be a difficult game. He's right when he makes about the Liverpool missing 10 or 11 players. I totally get that. He's playing against a good Aston Villa team. I hear where he's coming from, but it's a frustrating thing for Tottenham fans. I

think they're just going to, they're so frustrated because I don't understand. All right, I know he's got injuries, but please tell me how all these players are injured and been out for so long. What is going on at the training ground then? What is the training like? Is the intensity too high? Why these are picking up so many injuries? Why are they not back any sooner? I think Romero might be back in a couple of weeks, but Mickey van de Ven played the other day for 45 minutes. We haven't seen him over the last couple of weeks. So it is disappointing, it's frustrating, but Bournemouth don't make that excuse. Bournemouth had a catalogue of injuries. Harry Ola just gets on with it. So I do hear where he's coming from and the frustration of injuries. And when everyone's back, I think Tottenham should

stick with him though. I don't think you should chop and change your manager. Stick with him. And when he's got everyone back, then you can judge him. Also him saying, it's got nothing to do with me. It's not important what the kind of hierarchy at the club think. You're like, well, that just isn't true really, is it? No, fundamentally it's not true. And I think you've got today, you've got Tottenham fans

and I'll paraphrase, seeing that their team aren't very good in the first half You've got fans booing their prime team You've got calls for a change and the boardroom and in terms of who run the club It seems like a pretty tough thing going on for a long time though. Yeah, but it seems Clubbing you can get away When results are okay, it's been a really painful week They've been you know club and you can get away when results are okay. It's been a really painful week that being,

you know, the Carabao Cup semi-final was sort of the, was holding everything together and that chance of maybe getting to a cup final, that's over. You then go out of the other domestic competition four days later. I thought Tottenham were okay today. I think the players are still playing for him. But that's still, yes, you know, you still look at their starting lineup. He had two new signings in there. He had Danzo in there. He had Tell in there. Players that they signed in January to try and improve things. They're not getting any better. And then all this talk about the young players who are in the team, it's the senior ones. Sun misses a great chance at 1-0. He's the captain. He's supposed to be one of their

star man. He's letting them down. It's very very difficult Situation there in yes, we can only judge him I think when when he has all these players back, but is he gonna get that time? Football is such a ruthless business and I think my concern for him is Daniel Levy's getting a lot of heat at the moment Now, how does Daniel Levy history tell us, how does he generally respond when he starts getting the heat? It's the manager who pays the price. I think Angie's been dealt a very tough, difficult hand, but clubs like Bournemouth, as Clinton's alluded to there, that's killing him as well because they've got just as many bad injuries and they're not having this sort of season.

Newcastle, last season, went through two months of the season having just as bad injury problems. They didn't drop off like Tottenham have. So it's very, very tough for him. I think he's in a very, very sticky situation at the moment. And it's going to be very interesting to see what Tottenham do because I think they are going to have a decision to make fairly soon. The other thing is, though, when you're in a difficult situation like that, what you don't need is the goalkeeping error for the first goal, which is horrible. And he actually played really well the rest of the game, but that is not helpful when you're up against it to concede a goal like that.

Yeah, it is the first minute. You want a reaction from what happened against Liverpool when you're accused of not turning up and high profile pundits are saying that Akrington Stanley put up a better game. I just think Tottenham, the people who run Tottenham have to ask themselves, do they think it's going to get significantly better when Postokoglu starts getting players back? The league is gone. They are not going to get into Europe in the league. It will barring a huge miracle.

They're not going to get in. They're out of the Carabao Cup and the FA Cup. They have the Europa League still. Who is out there who's gonna do a better job? These will be the sort of conversations they're having. They will be having them in private, whether Ange likes it or not, or whether we like it or not. They will be, because they'll be worried,

because the form has been so barren for so long, and that safety net of the cup competitions has sort of evaporated this week. I hope they give him a bit more time and see if he can get a few players back and see if things improve. But I just worry that because that heat is on Levy, that he will want to divert it to somebody else

and the best way to divert it is by replacing the manager. Phil are definitely good for the win I think. Anything to say about Marcus Rashford's debut? He got half an hour off the bench and from my perspective, it's just nice to see him play some football really, Clinton. Yeah, that's what you want to see. I've said it all along. It's down to Marcus Rashford now.

Listen, we all talk about him bursting onto the scene being a youngster, he's not a youngster anymore. He has to start delivering. It didn't work out at Man United over the last previous seasons. I know he had that really good season, but other than that I think he's a talented player. He's got the perfect manager, but the one thing you know Emery won't take is if you don't put a shift in or don't work hard. You see he's very detailed on the stuff that needs to be done. All these players know what should be done. I hear Marcus Rashford wants to play on the left. Well, let me tell you, the youngster, Ramsey is a hell of a player, so he's got to work ever so hard to get into that side. But I do think eventually he will get into that side. But it's just good to see him playing football. You want to see Marcus Rashford playing

football with a smile on his face. I've watched him so many times recently, and this looks like football is a struggle. He's playing the best game. Everyone growing up as a youngster wants to be a professional footballer. So just go and play with a smile because let me tell you something, I've been in it before. The career goes quickly like that and you do have regrets when you're finished. You don't have no regrets, just enjoy it. I'm glad he's at Aston Villa and good luck to him. I did like the fact how willing the Villa fans were, how encouraging they were. They really want that move to work.

And you could see that that was having an impact on Rashford as well. I also noticed how keen the players were to get him the ball. They were trying to get him a goal as well in the second half. So it could be a move that sort of reignites his career really, I think we're all hoping that is the case,

not least of all Aston Villa. And I just think that changed, I think I said on a podcast late last year, that it was time for Marcus Thrasher to use Manchester United, and it was just whether he had realised that. Well, he had realised it. Change of environment, get happy, have a new challenge,

and he's got supporters and teammates who on the evidence of today really want this move to succeed for him and of course for them. And so Burnley knocked out Southampton, Mark Sedwards the midfielder on loan from Sporting scored the winner on his debut. Crucially have you, and I know Burnley always do it, but have you seen their announcement video for him? No.

Neither of you. It is okay, go and check it out. It's a sort of a... They always do good ones though don't they? I think this is the best one they've done okay it's with it's a it's a scene from friends with Ross on the phone and get off the plane and then they cut him in it's it's really it genuinely made me laugh wolves and he's and he's really good he is good it's like a cheat code because it should be a Premier League player so completely unbelievable sign him. I think Scott Parker knows him so he's helped with that deal.

Yeah and they basically just never concede any goals to their Burnley, that's their main thing. Walls won 2-0 at Blackburn fairly comfortably same scoreline for Millwall against Leeds although Leeds did a bit of a Liverpool, played a second string. Ipswich 4-1 winners, Frank Lampard's Coventry 2-1 win for Fuller-McWiggins, good goal, good goal there as well actually. Bournemouth tuning in the last FA Cup match at Everton's Goodison Park. Then a couple of penalty shootouts, Preston beat Wickham, Cardiff beat Stoke and Brighton coming from behind to beat Chelsea 2-1, which leads us into talking a bit about the lack of VAR. So the Matoma goal, you know, with VAR, it's just not standing, but,

and it obviously comes in from the fifth round onwards. Overall. Why is that? Why is that? Why is it just coming in from the fifth round? That's so random. I think it's just a cost thing, isn't it? Yeah, it must be literally just a cost thing. I can't imagine What else it would be? Yeah Number of games and how many people you'd need to be it. Yeah, he's gonna set you back a bit So I think it's that definitely and you don't have VAI everyone's groundy. No, I suppose you can you can sort of you could get the cameras in there but it's gonna be

yeah yeah it's gonna be a pain and an expensive pain but is it you know yes you look at what two things I suppose three the McGuire goal yeah which is which is offside the Matoma goal which I mean, I think there's probably two handballs in the build up to that. And then Joe Willock's goal, which I still haven't quite, I don't know if it went over the line, but you'd like to have Goal-Line Technologies to just tell you, because it's incredibly close and might well not have done. That being said, I personally, I really enjoyed not having not having VAR. Yeah, I enjoyed I enjoyed it because now you can celebrate

goals and you're not sitting standing there waiting for two or three minutes half celebrating you can fully celebrate because you know, the goal is going to stand listen for the teams that have been knocked out, because there was no VAR they'll be disappointed because you're right some three big decisions that changed the game for a lot of them teams but But now not having VAR today was more relaxed. You were thinking, oh, here's not going to be something controversial again. And yeah, I think the referees, majority of them done well,

the Leicester one, I couldn't believe that they missed that. The Lionsman's looking right across it. But you can make those decisions. Everyone's human. Yeah, everyone's human. Exactly. You can make it. But yeah, it was good without VAR. Did you like it without VAR? I mean, to be fair, City wanted a foul

in the build up to that Donnelly goal, what we're saying, Donnelly goal, Luke. Yes, they might have won as well. I mean, it wasn't a foul. I mean, it obviously wasn't a foul, but you know, in the VAR, well, it might have been there, slowed it down and watched it from 900 angles

and then made it look like the worst foul ever and chalked off the greatest FA Cup goal ever seen. So I have enjoyed it. I think it's refreshing. It's a nice retro vibe. You know, it's a nice retro vibe, isn't it? There's human error and you sort of, I don't know whether you just accept it a little bit more. It's a human error. Of course you do. You absolutely do. But when it's human error and they've got the technology, it's sometimes, well it's even worse. That's the point, that feels inexcusable. You can watch it again and again and somehow you're still arriving at the wrong decision that is much worse than in the moment making a wrong call which everyone sort of understands. It just goes to show that football was perhaps a slightly simpler game

certainly to watch before VAAR came in but it's not going anywhere unfortunately. I'm glad it wasn't when I was playing because I said I would have scored 60 less goals because I was always offside. Yeah. So I'm happy. It was right on the edge. On the edge, exactly. Thanks very much guys, look forward to doing this again soon. Pleasure, yeah.

Nothing back. Thank you. I genuinely thought you were both airing me there. No, very good. Whatever Rick, yeah. Look forward to the next one. No, very good, very good. Always enjoy it, so good, always enjoy it.

So yeah. That is it for this episode of the Football Daily. Fifth round draw is going to be made on BBC One at 10 past 7 ish on Monday night. Then we'll have live commentary on Firefly and BBC Sounds. League Two, Don Costa-Rosers against Crystal Palace. I'll obviously be tuning in for Clinton's dulcet tones. And then the final tie of the round on Tuesday night, Forest go to league one, Exeter City, live commentary on Radio 5 Sports Extra. Also when I think about mascots getting into fights, something that I think about, I would say on a weekly basis, it just pops into my head and it makes me quite happy. So I think

about Deontay Wilder on a Spanish, on a Spanish TV show in a warm up for I can't remember which fight, it doesn't really matter what the fight was. And there is a guy dressed as a, is he dressed as a hot dog or something? He's a hot dog, it's like a hot dog. And the joke is that the Spanish presenter is sort of saying, go give him a little, give him a little hit. And he, he, honestly he, he just, he flattens him. He absolutely, it's not a jab. It's not a jab. It's a full on knockout punch. Yeah. I mean it is, it's completely insane. And then afterwards he knocks the guy out and afterwards he was like, oh I thought he'd be wearing some padding or something. He's still like, even if he is. He's not gonna stop it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

What does it take to go racing in the fastest cars in the world? Oscar Piastri. Your head's trying to get rough one way, your body's trying to go another. Lance Stroll. It's very extreme in the sense of how close you're racing wheel to wheel. We've been given unprecedented access to two of the most famous names in Formula One, McLaren and Aston Martin. I'm Landon Harris, racing driver for McLaren Formula One team. They opened the doors to their factories as the 2024 season reached its peak. They work to build a beautiful bit of machinery that I get to then go and have fun in.

I'm Josh Hartnett. This is F1 Back at Base. Listen on BBC Sounds.