Football Daily - How To Win The Champions League: Jose Mourinho

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

In the final episode of the mini-series on How To Win The Champions League, we hear from two-time winner Jose Mourinho. He talks us through his victories with Porto in 2004 and Inter Milan in 2010, as well as some of his near-misses at Real MadridMourinho explains why the competition is so important to him and how he built relationships with some of Europe's leading players over the past two decades.A BBC iPlayer documentary accompanies this episode: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m00276py/how-to-win-the-champions-leagueEpisode 1: How to win the Champions League: Real Madrid - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0kkgyws Episode 2: How to win the Champions League: Liverpool 2019 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0l2mjj1TIMECODES 04:20 Winning the 2004 Champions League with Porto. 14:15 Building an Inter Milan team to win the Champions League in 2010. 29:40 How he uses psychology to motivate his players 33:45 Why the Champions League matters to him

Welcome to the latest podcast in our series about how to win the Champions League. We've already looked at Real Madrid and Liverpool in previous episodes. You can search for those on the Football Daily. In this edition we're going to hear from one man who has won the Champions League with multiple clubs. Only six men have ever achieved that, but none have caught quite so much attention as Jose Mourinho. A two times winner with Porto and with Inter Milan.

He's going to explain each triumph, how they came about and just why this competition is so special to him. It's special because of this dimension, it's also special if you feel it by our perspective players, coaches, because you play against the best, the best players, the best coaches, the best clubs, in the best stadiums, incredible audience, incredible levels of pressure. You play against teams from different countries, different cultures, different styles and then when it gets to the knockout, the knockout is something that in football I think is fascinating because it's that situation where the minimum detail is going to dictate many things. And it's a competition that historically has been dominated by the very biggest clubs in Europe. How did you build and mould that Porto team to be champions of

Europe in 2004? I think we started the year before when we won the UEFA Cup. It was a young team that started in a moment when Porto was coming from a very bad situation, not winning even titles in Portugal which is something normal for the big clubs. But we made the decision of too many foreign players, a complete loss of the culture. Let's go for the best Portuguese young players that were around in smaller clubs and having a base of three or four more experienced players. We did that to win the Portuguese title but we found ourselves winning UEFA Cup. So the next season we start the season playing against the European champion, the champion

Ziggweiner in the Super Cup and we felt this is our level, this is our level. And then the team was was tactically very, very good. It was a team with individual talent, yes, but technically it was very, very good. And we would adapt in relation to the profile of our opposition. We were very strong. And then it's what I call the competition of the details. Where we had a very important detail, which was to score a goal in the last minute of a knockout, which that goal decides if you keep fighting for your dream or if you stop your dream in that moment. Years after I had details going against me in that situation

and I think in every Champions League winner there is always a moment where a detail is going to make a difference. You talk about late goals, was one of those moments for you in that campaign, that game at Old Trafford when Costini scores that goal in the 90th minute and you knock Alex Ferguson's Man United out? Tell us about that, what do you remember about that moment? I remember fundamentally the first match at home where we win and we felt, yes, they have a top team, they are a team made to win it, but we can.

Then we go there to fight for a result. I predict with the team that a very feel the knockout like every second matters. And sometimes you have to control your emotions and you have to control even your team tactically because your moments are going always to arrive if you work for that. So when we were losing 1-0, we never lost our balance, we always thought it's difficult in here at Old Trafford to have a face-to-face fight with such a strong team. Let's wait for our moment. And of course you know, I think it's still the same, the dugouts in the middle of the crowd. And from 15, 20 minutes of the second half I was looking and I was looking and people were scared. People were nervous. People felt we are on the edge, we can go our way, we can go. And in that moment

was the moment where I felt now is the moment for us to go. I made changes to go, I made changes for our miracle to happen, but it happened. And if we stay here more time speaking about so many semi-finals I lost by details. This was a less 16 knockout, not even a semi-final, but was a goal in the last minute that makes clearly the decision. Just tell us a little bit about the final that year against Monaco. What do you remember about that and how did you prepare the team, a team that maybe didn't think at the start of the season they would end up in the final? How did you prepare those players for that final?

To be honest I took three weeks preparing because in Portugal we were champions and we were champions in advance so I could play the last two or three matches of the Portuguese competition instead of fighting for the title and taking the players to their limits I didn't. I was just analysing Monaco at every possible detail. We had time to prepare our players not just by the tactical viewpoint we were also preparing them by the individual situation. For example they had a left winger Jeremie Rotin, very quick player, left footed player, left typical winger. My right back Paolo Ferrero that I brought to Chelsea, he was two or three weeks having injections of Rotin, what he does, the way he plays, let's see everything, let's see every detail. So it

took us three weeks to prepare, to analyse every detail. But in the end it's also the mental side of it. We went to that final, I have to say, also with the advantage of the stadium because as you know even today Monaco is not a club with a crazy fan support so there was an invasion of Portuguese people in in Gazelkishen we felt at home we felt very very. We knew that they had a fantastic team. They beat Milan, they beat Real Madrid, they beat Chelsea. So they reached the final, probably even with the most difficult run that we got. But we felt very, very confident and couldn't start better. One-nil, and then my Porto team, with an advantage, was normally a match in the pocket.

What lessons did you take from Porto and your time at Chelsea into the role that Inter? And what was your vision and philosophy going into the 2009-2010 season? You know, the lesson went with me all over my career, even until now, that I was knocked out from Europa League one week ago. When I go to a European competition, I always feel that I can win. Because Porto is a great example of that. If you build a good team, a strong team, a team with great tactical culture, with great resilience, with mental stability, to cope with the difficult moments, especially the

difficult moments of the knockout, you always have a chance. It doesn't matter if there are teams with the odds at their favour or with the most incredible players on that side. Champions League winners are always teams. Of course they will have always players that in a certain moment they make the difference but only teams do it and very complete teams. Teams that can cope with all the difficult moments of the competition. Looking back now on the period from winning it the first time with Porto in 2004 to winning it in 2010 with Inter, how would you describe yourself as a manager during that period? I'm the same in the group phase. The group phase is something

that you have to play with the mathematics in front of your eyes. You have always to control your destiny. You cannot get crazy under pressure even if you lose one game here or one match there. You have to control the situation because in the end to qualify is not a big achievement. You have to be balanced. When you go to the knockout, first of all you have to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy the pressure of the knockout, you are in trouble, the players look at you, then they are also in trouble, so it's something that you have to enjoy. For me this is fundamental, to be in the edge. The knockout is not two matches of 90 minutes, it's one match of 180. So it doesn't matter what happens in the first leg, you have the second half of the match to play. This looks very simple but is not very simple. Then the accumulation of the yellow cards is very, very crucial because even now where the rules change a

little bit and you clean the cards for the second leg of the semi-final. And of course in the final everybody is available to play the final. But the run, the accumulation from the group phase to the last 16, to the quarter-final, to the first leg of the semi-finals, this is crucial. This is crucial because sometimes a fundamental player is not playing. Sometimes by accumulation of different players you get into a crucial match where you don't have two or three of your best players. I remember for example one second leg in the semi-final at Chelsea Atletico Madrid, Frank Lampard was suspended and Frank Lampard for Chelsea meant stability, strength, goals,

set pieces, meant everything. So all these details and then it looks like it's a big dogma and people sometimes is afraid to speak about it. I'm never afraid to speak about it, which is the referee decisions that are always crucial. I had a semi-final that I lost with a goal that was not a goal. The ball didn't cross the line. It was not at that time golden line technology so hands off can happen. But if you remember, it was not with me so I'm even more comfortable to speak that Chelsea-Barcelona with Overbo is the biggest scandal that I have ever seen in Champions League. But it happened. Who won that competition? Barcelona, not Chelsea.

So all these things happen in a competition of high level like the Champions League is. What were the key elements in building an inter-team capable of winning the treble in that 2009-10 season which obviously culminated in the Champions League title. Look, it was fantastic because everything started in my first season when we were knocked out by Manchester United at Old Trafford. We played the group phase, we qualified, we beat somebody in the last 16. We played Man United at home in Milan in the first leg, then 0-0 we go to Man United and we were knocked out. I had a phenomenal president, Mr Morati, and he was the first person I met after the match. I walked to the corridor, the little corridor, the narrow corridor at Old Trafford, and

Mr Morati was there. And he shook my hand and he told me, Mourinho, what do we need to win the Champions League? And I told him immediately, this is the team that we have, this is a good team, I need this, this and this. I need a faster centre-back that allows me to play a higher line, I need a creative centre midfielder because the profile of my centre midfielders are very, very similar and I need one attacking player that in the crucial moment is going to be there for us. And that happened in the summer, one, two and three. The team had everything. At squad, at personalities,, experience, physicality, empathy, friendship. We were really a team, we had everything. We were missing these three bits. The three bits arrived and then the

next season was our season. That was Lucio center-back, was Wesley Schneider, our creative midfielder, and was in case we brought two because in the end we sold Ibrahimovic so was supposed to be one striker we sold Ibrahimovic to Barcelona we bought Milito from Genoa and we took a toll in the business with Zlatan. The 72 Plus on the Football Daily. I'm Aaron Paul. And I'm Joby Mackenna. And on Wednesdays on the Football Daily we bring you 72 Plus, the home of the EFL from Five Life Sport.

As we'll get stuck into the latest from the Football League and beyond. We're punching well above our weight already. We're a part-time team in a full-time league. Hopefully we can stay in the league and that ASDA. We're in a great position at the moment and long may that continue. That's 72 Pass, the EFL podcast only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily podcast on BBC Sounds.

Wesley Sniders said I think that he would kill and die for you, that's a quote. How did you create such strong personal bonds with players and how important were those bonds with both the Inter and the Porto players that you managed? You know, you need to be lucky. You need to be lucky because you need a certain profile of players to be able to you need a certain profile of players. To be completely honest with them, completely honest. And in that team, in Inter, my bench was full of top players in the end of their career. Cordoba, Toledo, Mataradzi, Stankovic, they were not my first choices, but they were my big allies.

So you need luck to find the right profile of professional. You need to be honest with with them and tell them exactly what you expect from from them and I I still remember Cordoba words in the semi-final in Barcelona. Cordoba was on the bench and he wanted to do a little speech to the players and he was saying, this is my dream, this is my last opportunity, I'm not playing because of him, he decided to put me on the bench, he decided to play you, so you are going to play for me. When you have this kind of person on the bench, on the dressing room, your work becomes much more easier. That team had everything and I know that they could do anything for me, I would do also anything for them.

The only thing that I didn't was to stay one more year and to leave for Real Madrid. What were the greatest challenges you faced during the Porto and the Inter seasons and how did you deal with them? I don't know if you want to talk about Porto first and then go on to Inter maybe. You know, Porto, zero pressure. We won the UEFA Cup the year before, we went to Champions League to try to prove ourselves. In the end we felt we had Real Madrid in the group phase, we played them, we had a feeling. Then we beat Man United, then we have even a bigger feeling. So the

big challenge was to improve the team all the time, but zero pressure. We started feeling pressure when we got a semi-final where we played Deportivo La Coruña, the champion in Spain, and in the other semi-final Chelsea against Monaco. But Real Madrid stayed behind, Man United stayed behind, Arsenal stayed behind. So it was the only moment where you start feeling, wow, now we have 25% chances of doing it and you start feeling the pressure. In Inter the pressure was there because 50 years without that title was my second season but Mr Morattiati for 20 years investment, investment, investment, top players, top players, top players but was never coming. In that season

we felt like come on, has to be or at least we have to reach there. So that was really the big challenge. It was difficult because we were fighting until the last day for the domestic competitions. Domestic competitions are compulsory. You have to win it. If you are in Inter, you have to win it. So we played the last match, the last week, we played Italian Cup final,

we played the last match of the season to win the title. We have to win the match to win the title. Then was the volcano in Iceland. We were told that maybe we have to go by bus from Milan to Madrid for the final or you have to fly the next day. So we win the title in Italy. The next day we have to fly the next day. So we win the title in Italy the next day you have to fly to Madrid. We stayed in Madrid one week waiting, waiting, preparing the match. So in Inter we felt, we felt but at the same time the drama of the semi-final against Barcelona, everything that happened in that second leg, to win the way we did, the feeling was, it's our cup.

So we went to that final, of course, against a top team with great experience of that level by Munich, but we went to that final completely convinced that we were going to win. And I think this positive wave, this emotional wave on your side is very important when you play a final. Just tell me a little bit more about that, you said epic semi-final against Barcelona because the first leg of that tie you beat them 3-1, you were excellent. Did you always believe that your team was capable of delivering a performance as brilliant as that against a team as good as Barcelona? You know the whole match we know that we have to win because we play Barcelona also in the group phase. So we knew perfectly that to go to Barcelona and to get the result was going to be very

difficult in the group phase. The draw at home, positive point in that situation of accumulation of points to qualify. When you get to the knockout against a team like Barcelona you have to win your match at home. We played amazing, everything went well for us in spite of we conceded an early goal. We won 3-1, could be more, it was a fantastic performance. We go to Barcelona and we know what was waiting for us in terms of atmosphere and in terms of the amazing quality of that team. At that time the goals away count so we know that if we lose by two goals, two nil we would be out and we go there with the strategy to try to control, to try to bite in counter-attack. We had fantastic qualities to play and defend

in a lower block, then to counter-attack. After 20 minutes or so, we stay with 10 players and to play with 10 players in Barcelona becomes epic. You need heroes, you need to have the best out of everybody. I think I was brilliant in the way I organised the team. Because if you don't do that, I wouldn't be here now speaking with you. Because if I win just one Champions League in my career I'm not enough of a legend to be here speaking with you. So what stays in history is the result. We defended with everything we had. We defended with the tactical organisation, we defended with hearts, with souls, we give absolutely everything and this is the most beautiful defeat of my career. We lost 1-0 but we got to the finals. There were some absolutely amazing scenes of celebration at the end of that game.

From you and from your players, why did knocking Barcelona out in the Nou Camp mean so much to you? Mean to reach the final, mean to beat at that time the best team in Europe in that moment and I think the situation of nobody believes that could be possible gives you an extra motivation and the fact that you play with with 10 men for so long makes it by the emotional point of view makes it something absolutely incredible if I could choose one of my team's most emotional performances, career more than

20 years, I had to choose that one. What are the ingredients for success in the Champions League and what strengths of yours do you think enabled you to have those victories with Porto and Inter? What are you most proud of? You know I'm proud of my relation with the knockout. We have a fantastic relation, me and the knockout and the knockout with me. I think I lost four or five semi-finals. So I won two Champions League, I could win maybe three, maybe four, maybe five, maybe six. Because it's very difficult for my teams to be knocked out.

Very very difficult. Now the last two times that I've been knocked out were both on penalties. So Roma in the Europa League final on penalties and now with Fenerbahce also on penalties. I love the knockout. I love to prepare the knockout, I love to play one match of 180 minutes and not two matches of 90 minutes. And then is work. I always say you cannot prepare just for that match. It's an accumulation of work that allows you to arrive into a certain match with that tactical culture, with that motivation, with

that empathy that allow you to win these kind of matches. What was your motivation during those Champions League winning seasons? What was driving you to be successful? It's the same motivation of the ones that I lost or the ones that I didn't win. As I was saying before, for me the difference between these two victories and the four or five knockouts that I had in different clubs in semi-finals, the preparation, the effort was not different at all. I tried to establish in the beginning of the season always the European competition has as a dream you know is the Champions League is the El Dorado, the championship to win the Champions League is like to be immortal If not immortal for the world, at least immortal for that club. You

are always going to be a legend in that club if you win the Champions League, even in a club like Real Madrid that wins so many times. The winners are legends. It's something that stays forever. I have replicas of the cups and of course I have the original medals but I'm honest with you I don't care about the cups and I don't care about the medals I care of what I have here and I care what people from those clubs they they have here and there. So many years after, the Inter people that I found everywhere, his passion, his love, his respect, you know, is the biggest achievement that you can have as a club professional. Then there are, of course, national team titles.

One of your great traits as a manager seems to be your master of psychology. The way that you deal with the press, with your players. How important is psychology to you as a successful manager? And where does that interest in psychology come from originally? It's part of the job, it's part of the game with the players, with the press I don't think so. The way you deal with the press is not going to win matches, not at all.

With the players, yes. You know, I had I think hundreds of players. I always looked at each one of them as a different guy than the other guys. Every person is one individual. And that individual way of communicating, of motivation is always something very, very important. I gave you an example of a very strong-minded guy, Samuel Eto'o. Samuel Eto'o, he won us the quarter-finals against Chelsea with Inter. He scored the winning goal here at Stamford Bridge, he played a fantastic match here in Stamford Bridge. The week before I fought him every day. Big discussion, big level of pressure. I told him I'm not going to play you, you are not in your best level, you are not going to play, please mister let me play, no there is no please mister you are not going to play, you are not performing, I don't trust you. It

was one week, one week of an emotional work with him, such a strong guy that I knew that he would react the way he did react. I wouldn't do that with a player of a complete different profile so there is no secret is just to look at each one of them to know them to understand them and to deal with them as a complete individual is like you have one son and your daughter you cannot educate both in the same way because they are different. You mentioned earlier about the fact that you didn't stay in after winning the Champions League with them and there's a famous video isn't there of you and Marco Matarazzi as

you were about to leave the Bernabeu I think, you had a hug with him and you were both very emotional. Tell us a little bit about that moment and why were you both so emotional? You know, was Marco could be another one? Was Marco the one that I found there? I went to the dressing room and I ran away. I went to the bus to say goodbye and I didn't even shake one hand. I wanted to escape because I know I didn't sign with Real Madrid before the final. I refused to. I wanted to play the final without any contract signed with Real Madrid. So I think if I get into the dressing room, if

I get into the bus, if I go back with them to Milan, if I walk into the San Siro full, if I walk into the Duomo full of people, I think I wouldn't go to Real Madrid. I think the emotion would stop me to go. But I wanted so much to go, I thought it was the right moment to go, but I had to escape and Marco got me there. If instead of Marco it was Deki Stankovic or Milito or Julio Seza it would be the same story. Just finally to summarise, when you look back on those two Champions League finals, those

two Champions League wins, where does that rank in your career and your lifetime in terms of what you've done? You know, to be honest, in terms of my pride of the seasons I lost Champions League on semi-finals, penalty shootout, a goal that was not a goal. Doesn't make any difference for me. But again, the meaning of it is history, why am I now here speaking with you? It's not because I am in Fenerbahce or it's not because I won with Chelsea, won Premier League or whatever it was. It's because I am a double Champions League winner is the reason.

So you make history. And I think there are teams when you do it other guys do it I do this season you do next season three years later another one will come and do and then people will be even confused in which season you did you go to Porto and you go to you go to Milan and everybody knows 2004 Champions League winner 2010 Champions League winner who was, Champions League winner. Who was the guy that scored the goal? This, this and that. Who was the coach? Mourinho. You go to Real Madrid, to Barcelona, to Manchester United, to these big teams and maybe people don't

have the same feeling. I did it with Porto after that, not even a semi-final. I did it with Inter. They did one final after last season, but unfortunately no more Champions League. That was Jose Mourinho on his relationship with the Champions League. If you want more on the special one, there's an iPlayer documentary available right now, as well as Jose you'll hear from the likes of Benny McCarthy, Andre Villas-Boas and Javier Zanetti. And there are previous episodes on Real Madrid and Liverpool on iPlayer and BBC Sounds, just search for how to win the Champions League.

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