Football Daily - In Focus with Lucy Bronze and Alex Scott

Episode Date: March 29, 2025

Chelsea and England defender Lucy Bronze speaks exclusively to Alex Scott about her autism and ADHD diagnosis. Lucy's mum, Diane, had long suspected she may be autistic, but it wasn't until four years ago that Bronze was officially diagnosed as having autism and ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder).Lucy has had outstanding success as a footballer, both at home and abroad, and during this chat she tells Alex how her neurodiversity has impacted her life both on and off the pitch and why some of her differences have been her strengths.TIMECODES: 1:02 - On receiving her autism diagnosis and ADHD four years ago. 3:13 - The process of getting diagnosed 5:00 - On her most notable neurodivergent traits 7:10 - Do her teammates know? 9:20 - Being ‘obsessed’ with football and how her differences have been her strengths. 10:26 - How does it affect her on the football pitch? 12:25 - Masking and copying the behaviours of Jill Scott. 15:54 - Her experiences of playing abroad and being in diverse environments. 16:50 - Being a role model to younger players 19:55 - On the diagnosis helping to understand who she is, not change who she is. 22:25 - Why is she ready to talk about it now? 24:45 - Becoming an ambassador for the National Autistic Society to help with "raising awareness" and "getting rid of the stigma" around it.5 Live and BBC Sounds commentaries this weekend: 
Sat 12:15 Fulham v Crystal Palace (FA Cup) 
Sat 15:00 Celtic v Hearts (Scottish Premiership) 
Sat 17:15 Brighton v Nottingham Forest (FA Cup) 
Sun 13:30 Preston v Aston Villa (FA Cup).

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. Hi, I'm Lucy Bronze and you're about to listen to a very special edition of the Football Daily with myself and Alex Scott. You can find links to the organisations that provide help and support on the topics of autism and ADHD at bbc.co.uk forward slash action line. The Football Daily Podcast, in focus. I feel like we have so much to catch up on in terms of football and I suppose life. Been a while. It has been a while. I mean we're always popping in and out. I saw you at a gig, didn't I? And then obviously when I'm doing the WSL games. But we're going to talk about something a bit more personal to you and what's been going on in your life that went undetected, officially undetected

for most of your life until four years ago. So what's that? Four years ago I did a test, found out that like I have autism but at the same time it was something that I always knew about in a way just because my mum had spoke about it from a very young age and noticed things in me and was like yeah I think you're a little bit autistic but we don't need to test you like you're fine kind of thing and then just a couple years ago, when I was away with England, I was speaking with a psychologist and she was like,

why don't we get you tested? Got tested. And it was, it didn't change anything essentially, but it was like a bit of an eye-opener and just learned more about myself, understood why in certain situations, I just saw things differently to people or acted in a

different way to other people and yeah I mean I can remember when I was younger felt like I was being treated differently because of how I was acting and yeah just things just kind of fell into place and made me feel better actually. So you said your mum had said things before so did you have that in your head then? Yeah but I don't think I understood what it was. Like I was really good at school, like I was so smart. We all know that from England camp. Like I was reasonable, yeah,

like I was reasonable intelligence I'd say, but I really struggled in English. And my teacher had said to my mum, cause she was in the same school, and was like, Lucy really struggles reading, spelling is atrocious basically, but I could write good things but the words just didn't make sense. So he was like, I think maybe she's dyslexic. So my mum got me a dyslexia test at school, flying colours on that. Very dyslexic. And I remember at that point she was saying

that was to help me at school and maybe in exams if I needed it but she was like I think you could be autistic as well but I don't need to test you like to tell me that it's not going to make a difference to like your school or your exams and things like you're going to be fine and I didn't really know what it meant but I just thought oh it means that I think a bit differently, cool. And that was it. So what is the process then? Because you said you spoke to the England psychiatrist so you then you just went and got tested? Yeah so then you have like a call or like a meeting with someone and I guess you kind of go through scenarios and different

things to understand like how you would react in certain situations or certain things that you do. And at the end you get an assessment, speak through it. Because at the same time, I think maybe it's better nowadays, but autism is seen as one thing, but there's so many things within that, so many different traits and people show different traits in different ways and things like that. So getting to sit down and actually speak through yours and how it affects you and you know maybe situations that make you feel good or make you feel bad, that was the thing that really like clicked in my head and made me feel so much better.

So what are the key differences then between ADHD and autism? I mean they they share a lot of the same traits. Also when I did this diagnosis I was diagnosed as ADHD as well so got a little trifecta going on but it is quite common for neurodiverse if you kind of show signs of one thing a lot of them relate so closely. I guess the ADHDs got slightly different traits, but again they're kind of mixing together. And for me I tried not to look at like, oh that's because of that, that's because of that, and that's because of that. I'm just like, that's just me. Yeah. You say it's your personality? Yeah, I think that's what I thought growing up.

It was like my personality, but at the same time it's not something I can change. I just can understand it and that's just how I am. Like it's not how I was brought up, it's nothing to do with that. Like it's just how my brain functions in different scenarios and how I make sense of things. Can you say more? So then how does it like manifest in you some of the traits? I think the one trait everybody always sees in me is they're always messing with my hair. Okay. That's like a real basic, like I'm always sat all the time and I think as women's football has become bigger, it's like a thing everyone's, oh she's always messing

about and I'm like, that's me like, I don't know, like calming myself down without even realising it. Like it's not being able to look someone in the eyes as long. I really struggled with that when I was younger. I've had to kind of figure that one out. And I think the biggest one that's affected me was probably me being like 10 steps ahead all the time and not giving people the chance to figure that out. And I was thinking, why does she not know that it's this way? I remember Jill used to get so annoyed at me in England. What, you'd get frustrated?

And people would be frustrated, like why can't she let someone else do it? And I'm like, that's just how you do it. So just do it that way. What am I waiting for? And everyone, I think people used to think I was like, I know it all. And I was like, no, my head's just fought

through all them processes like that, super quick. That is interesting because I do like obviously knowing you from England camp and everything like it is It's just like well Lucy knows yeah, like I just went straight and never was I was she's not like a team player And I'm like I am I'm helping you that I was thinking I was helping you and everyone else was thinking Oh, she's not letting out anyone else answer. I always get like we can only tell them one thing at once and I'm like why? Yeah. Yeah. I can deal with ten things, like it's cool. I know where X, Y and Z is supposed to be and I'm supposed to be and what they're supposed

to do and what I'm supposed to do at the same time. Doesn't everybody? Yes. That's literally what I have. I feel like football, that's probably my frustration. Or like you do a meeting and they're like questions to the group, why such and such That's literally what I have. I feel like football, that's probably my frustration. Or like you do a meeting and they're like, questions to the group, why such and such and I'm like, well because of this, that and that's happened because of that and then that's

done. Now we need to talk about it more Lucy. I was like, why? I've just solved it for you. Like it's done. So do your England teammates now and Chelsea teammates know? Some people do. Okay. Like coaches and staff do, especially at England and some players do. Like when I found out and did like the whole diagnostic thing I remember telling like Demi was like I think we were maybe living together or we was quite close at City and I said it to her and she was like Yeah, obviously

So yeah, it was a few people like I'd mentioned it to like Jordan Lucy and they were like, yeah We know so then I think because I got that reaction off everyone and they were like, okay and that I never felt the need to like Tell more people because people just accepted me as me and it was Lucy Brown's not oh Lucy's got autism so XYZ. That's what I mean it's like an understanding even for me coming here to speak to you today and trying to understand and learn more you already said a word that is new to my vocabulary and language is neurodivergent yeah neurodiversity as well. What's the difference between neurodivergent and neurotypical?

I guess it's just the way like your brain's like wired a little bit differently. Like just the way you process things is a bit different. The way you see the world is a bit different. It's not to say one's right and one's wrong. I think that's something that I've learned, especially being in team environments, like there's so many ways to do things and there's so many like positives to one and negatives and vice versa, like you just have to use these things as your strengths, whether you're neurotypical or neurodiverse and I think for me I've always felt that my differences have been like my superpowers, like being super focused. Like everyone's like, you're so passionate about football. I'm like, I don't know if I would

say I was passionate. I'm just obsessed. I always just say I'm just obsessed. And I'm like, that's my autism. Like it's my hyper focus, football. Okay. So then what happens then? It's like, I'm just, I don't know. Everyone's like, we're so worried about when you don't have football anymore. But I'll just find something else. Like even now with football, my head's everywhere with it. Like, because I'm so obsessed, not even just playing.

Like the boardroom, like the coach and the physios, like everyone will know that I somehow haven't answered to everything because I'm so obsessed with it all. So does your brain ever stop? No. Because like you're saying, you're just obsessed with, it's not just one thing, you're already thinking about that

and becoming obsessed with that as well. Yeah, I mean, that's one thing, again, I really struggle with like sleep, I always have since I was a baby. My mum was like, you never, she always says that's the reason my sister's so much younger than me because I couldn't sleep so then she couldn't sleep. Well yeah, my brain's just like 100 miles an hour like all the time, even laying in bed and everyone's like, just, I had a sleep expert and he he said just before you go to bed like write notes like what you're thinking and I was like I write a

book then like am I supposed to write a book every night before bed I was like that's not gonna work just have to like exert some energy like I've just got too much energy all the time. Is there ways that it does affect you on the pitch then? Or is that way, wait when I was playing you can play centre back. Well the thing is is that again something that I found out I think maybe my mum might have known this but like something that's really good for well ADHD especially on autism having your focus but like exercise having that focus having something to do and like keep it moving, like that keeps me like, so training every day is amazing for me. Even healthy girls are like, are you sure you're 33?

Like you don't have a star, I'm like, this is my super power. I love that you keep calling it your super power because it changes the way, and I suppose it changes the stigma around it also, right? I feel like that's something that when I was younger, when I think now that my mum didn't want that test, I feel like it was because of that and it was like is she going to be like seen as a problem or this is an issue and stuff, which I think a long time ago would

have been and still sometimes now maybe, but I do think times are changing and people are realizing like, I think there's so many people out there who are neurodiverse, who don't even know it, but they're just so successful or just live in life and they found their focus and they found their way to have the right people around them,

have the right support and just carry on with life and not need to be assessed and not need to feel like they're any different because they're not. It's just who you are and you find a way to make it work best for you. I'm lucky I found, I had my family, my friends who always understood, that's just Lucy, and I found football. So I found all these things that meant that everything that I've got because of autism is like worked in to my advantage basically. Do you know, even hearing you say that, do you think there is so many people I suppose that are just masking it's like to well what people would say to fit in so it's just like they copy behaviors of others.

100% I have copied behaviors of others, I think all through my 20s. Really? Yeah. When I first came to England I would not speak to anyone. Yeah, that's true. I couldn't... You spoke to me! I spoke to you!

I spoke to you and Yanks were the two that I felt like comfortable with and then there was all obviously my friends, the younger lot. Like I think Casey Stoney might have said, I don't think you've ever like looked me in the eye and spoke to me I was thinking it's not anything to do with you. It was me Yeah, like I just couldn't have like this kind of conversation with people. I've just had to Like I would just watch like Jill or watch Jill's behaviors and think oh she speaks to everyone like what's she doing? Like I just copy that a bit and I'm obviously better at it now but it's still like hugging people

I can't eye contact when you speak those two things I've like had to learn because I think they're seen as like the norm and the two things that make me so uncomfortable but I will say with the hugging one I have got to a place now where people are like, at least he doesn't like hugs, it's fine. So they don't judge me for not doing it. Whereas before, oh, she's so cold. I was like, I'm not cold. So then I had to learn to be like, through gritted teeth. Literally I was like, ah, this is lovely. Or like speaking to people as well. It's so frustrating because I feel like I had to do that to make other people as well. It was, it's so frustrating because I feel like I had to do that to make other people feel comfortable, but it made me more uncomfortable

because I literally didn't like it. Whereas you don't dislike this, this isn't making you uncomfortable, you just think I'm rude. Whereas it's actually making me feel really uncomfortable, but I have to mask and try to do something for you because it's a norm. See this is why this piece is so important because it's not even people

that think okay I need to go and get tested to be diagnosed it's for everyone to understand. Yeah. You know I think that's what I find fascinating it's not just about one person it's about everyone. But I think that's why I feel like I was so lucky to be around, when I think of my life, friends and family who just was comfortable with me being however I wanted to be. And I don't think everybody has that because there's an expectation that you should hug people in England or you should look them in the eye when they're speaking to them or like you shouldn't you should sit still if someone's talking and listen like you shouldn't be fiddling with your hair or your feet or whatever so yeah it's just important

just as important for everybody to understand like the differences in people and what they might perceive as something is actually making that other person uncomfortable. If anything I felt more comfortable with you than being around loud other people. I just felt I could always be myself with you. But I think that's well that's another thing like all like loud noises, loud sounds and things and things like that is also like something that for people with autism can be a problem as well and sometimes those environments don't really help that. I think I felt that a little bit as well it was like I need to stay away from that a little bit because it's draining me. But yeah just

there was people that I found more comfort with and didn't really judge me for not. And you know what it's like in England I think someone said to me, wasn't it crazy that you went like abroad and did all these things to meet new people? I was like yeah but I went to places where there wasn't a certain way to be and they were super diverse teams and when I'm in a diverse team I just am normal because everybody's so different and that's what I figured out. Like when I was in England camps younger, everybody has to be the same.

Yeah. I'd stick out like a sore thumb. Everyone has to be the same when you get to the older age groups because there's a certain way that we do things when we play for England. And I think I've, last five years, I've just been like, I don't care anymore, I'm going to do what makes me feel comfortable and know that the likes of Phil Neville and Serena, like, as long as you're doing what's best for you and the right things, then be you.

The Lucy, how you've explained that in terms of being in team meetings and kind of feeling away about yourself to the leader that you are now within that team. So how are you when younger players come through? I think all the players love me because I'm still just this excitable kid at the same time. As much as I am an older player, I can keep up with them and my interactions with them are very different to like, maybe what some of, like Millie, who's equally one of the older players, is maybe a bit different to her. But I think they just see me as someone who's like, I'm just always myself and just

here, there and everywhere. But then on the pitch, I'm like, I'm always Lucy Bronze. I'm always doing my best. I'm always trying hardest, even if maybe sometimes it looks like I'm always Lucy Bronze, I'm always doing my best, I'm always trying hardest, even if maybe sometimes it looks like I'm messing about or doing something different to other people. And for me I think that's actually like a nice role model to have that everyone doesn't have to be the same in this environment. You can be different and be successful as long as you're doing what you need to for the team when it comes to the big moments and stuff. I've seen your relationship with LJ. Lauren, like do you feel like you've taken her under your wing in that environment? I think like I've always said about LJ like she's someone who I look at who's been misunderstood and I've always felt that when I was younger her age and maybe in

certain circumstances people are like oh this is so angry or she's she's this or she's acting out or she's not listening and I watch people say things about Lauren I'm like that's that's not her like you just you're not you're not really seeing who she really is you just comparing it to like what you think an enormous and I think that's probably why, yeah, I've always been really close to her. And try to look after her. I mean, she's not a baby, but I like looking after her just because it really annoys me when I think people are so misunderstood and because of that, I'm treated differently.

It's different, though, right, between how it is in women and men? Yeah, I mean, I guess the traits could be seen a little bit different. treated differently. It's different though, right? Between how it is in women and men. Yeah, I mean, I guess the traits could be seen a little bit different. And I think there's a thing with like kids at school and maybe, again, it's like a bad stereotype to say, oh, like the boys who've got too much energy and they're misbehaving, it's because of this, this and this. Whereas like, it is a bit more common that girls maybe mask things a little bit better than boys,

but that's kind of generalizing everybody. But yeah, I guess it's the same as just how different traits show differently in different people. There's people who I like play with now or previously and now that I know so much more and I've learnt more I'm like I can see these traits and other players that I've played with and for me I look at them and go I think that's why they're good at football because I think it's such a good thing like I'm like so happy about it is like I guess uncomfortable to talk about just because it's something new and different and not everybody understands but I think it's something amazing.

So would you tell now whoever you could advise them, be like go and get tested, go and get diagnosed? Yeah, I think if you feel like uncomfortable or maybe that you don't fit in in certain places like go and find out the assessment itself is like super straightforward in the fact that you feel really comfortable like the process is really nice in that respect and finding out everything you get the information you get to sit and talk through it all to understand I do know that I was I do feel very fortunate that I was obviously

in the England setting so they helped me with that getting that, I do feel very fortunate that I was obviously in the England setting, so they helped me with that, getting that diagnosis. I do know it's a little bit harder, there's a bit more of a waiting list, but I do, I would encourage people to get a diagnosis and to learn more about themselves, to go through the process, not only of like the actual test itself, but even just looking more into it in books, on the internet and things, there's so much out there to read and to learn, even if it's not for yourself, it might be for a loved one, or just educate yourself in general about the differences in people and neurodiversity. Hopefully me speaking about it, people will be a bit more

open and not see it as like a stigma to being diagnosed as a certain thing. You're not going to suddenly change, like that is who you are and understanding who you are is even better, it's such a good thing to have. Is there medication available and have you considered? I know that there's medication for ADHD. I was offered it and I can't take it whilst playing football and at first I thought, maybe it's a good thing, maybe I'll be able to sit still and focus and do what other people do. And then I was like, nah, I don't want that. It's so boring. I like the way I am. I think it made me like who I am and I think

it has made me so successful at football especially and maybe if I had a different job where I wasn't as free to and doing as much exercise and things maybe it might have been something I thought about but yeah I got to a point I was like what if this is like negative? What if like it completely changes me? Like, yeah, I go super active right now and then sometimes I'll be like completely crashed from social experiences. But I like how I am.

Don't want to change it. Is that why you feel ready to sit down and talk about this now? Because you feel so comfortable in yourself. Yeah, I think, like, I couldn't have done this 10 years ago. And even now it's a little bit, like, uncomfortable just because it's not something I speak about a lot. But yeah, like, I'm in a place in my life, I'm in my career, people accept me.

I think people sometimes go, oh that's Lucy and I've got away with that because I've become like Lucy Bronze at football But yeah, that's given me like I guess the platform to be so comfortable in myself But I just hope that I don't want that for other people like they should just be comfortable straight off the bat I'm just in such a good place now where this is not gonna to affect me, it's not going to make people look at me differently because I'm so happy with who I am and the way I hold myself, whether it's with England, with Chelsea, in life, in football, I'm completely cool with it and if someone else has a problem with me that's not my business, it's not you, like and it's not on me and I don't think I could have stood up and said that maybe five or six years

ago. Do you feel that now though that you said you're so comfortable within yourself that if you were in an environment that you would just be open and honest and be like well? Yeah I think would just be open and honest and be like, well. Yeah. I think, especially now that I feel like, I just don't see it as a bad thing at all. And I think too many people have, or maybe still do. And I think it's the best thing ever. Like, one of my favourite films, The Accountant.

I haven't seen it. You need to see it. Watch that. Why, what is it? Because there's, I can't spoil the end in for you. But there's a guy on it and I was just like, he is so cool. He's like 10 steps ahead of everybody. I can't tell you.

Oh, now I need to go and watch it. You need to go and watch it. It's one of my favourite films because it's like, it's not a superhero film, but basically the guy who is like the superhero essentially in the end, like he is autistic, but he's unbelievable. He's just amazing. And the person who gets him the most is his brother. Together they basically can do anything. And not only just sharing your story right now, but this is the start of something bigger,

because I know you're gonna start a project. Yeah so I'm gonna become an ambassador for the National Autistic Society also known as NAS. Yeah and just I guess being an ambassador working alongside them raising awareness and in some way and I guess being like a role model of someone who has autism and just raising awareness. I think getting rid of the stigma especially for me is something that personally I hold really close to my heart. Just because I think there's times in my life where maybe things might have been a bit easier

for me if I didn't feel like there was a stigma there that I could have openly spoke about it. And yeah, I guess just especially for me, especially for younger boys and girls, just being like so happy with who they are. I think that's something that I absolutely love. Charities that work with children especially, I've always been someone who stands up for children and I think being misunderstood when you're younger is so difficult which is why I wanted to you know join the charity, be like an ambassador, help people as much as I can and I'm saying children but anyone of any age is just for me specifically. Growing up as a child that

was misunderstood I don't want that for anybody else. Well I think you sharing your story is definitely gonna do this because Lucia I always used to call you Lucia so it's not gonna change now. You are an inspiration both on and off the pitch, so I appreciate you taking the time to share your story and it is going to help so many people. I hope so. It will. Football, a game of passion, rivalry and loyalty. But decades ago, beneath the cheers and the chants lay a different kind of warfare called hooliganism. On a match day, everyone was your enemy, everyone was going to kill you. We look over the brutal bloody battles where punching below the belt was a way of life.

It was just a day of mayhem, it's a day you dream of. Join me, Tony Bellew, as we hear from those bruising for a fight in the name of the firms that they belong to. We hated them, we hunted them, we battered them, and nothing got in the way of football. Something they called the English disease. They were destroying the football club, the game I love. Gangster Presents Hooligans. Listen on BBC Sounds.