Football Daily - In Focus with Nedum Onuoha and Claude Makelele

Episode Date: April 19, 2025

The former Chelsea midfielder Claude Makelele sits down with Nedum Onuoha to talk through the Frenchman's career. Makelele describes his time at Chelsea and experiences under Jose Mourinho, as well as his most challenging opponents in the Premier League. And we also find out how he was close to becoming a winger and not a defensive midfielder.TIMECODES 00:10 What was it like joining Chelsea? 02:30 Playing under Jose Mourinho 07:00 Claude Makelele - the winger? 16:00 Toughest opponents in the Premier League.BBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries this weekend: Sat 1230 Arsenal women v Lyon in the UEFA Women’s Champions League, Sat 1500 Everton v Man City in the Premier League, Sat 1730 Aston Villa v Newcastle in the Premier League, Sun 1400 Ipswich v Ipswich in the Premier League, Sun 1400 Man Utd v Wolves on Radio 5 Sports Extra, Sun 1400 Fulham v Chelsea on BBC Sport website, Sun 1630 Leicester v Liverpool in the Premier League.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. This week we'll delve into the truth about Red Bull's so-called crisis talks. Is it a load of bull? And we look ahead to Saudi Arabia. He's really good. He's going to win it. Don't worry about that. Experience F1 like never before by tuning into the Inside Track, wherever you get your podcasts. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts the football daily podcast on BBC Sounds Claude it's great to see you and it's gonna be good to ask you some questions because you know your career and you as a person You're one of the most iconic players within not just Premier League history But football history and I know you're very humble but allow me that thank you

Thank you. Could you tell me what it was like when you first joined Chelsea from Real Madrid and at the time I think it was Claudio Ranieri that was the manager wasn't it? Difficult moment for me because past from Madrid, Chelsea, no but just Chelsea, different country, Premier League, I don't know, football, I don't know, I just play against them. It was a shock-threatening moment for me. But I realised after, with the team-mates, the English mentality, the way they invited me, they introduced me to a club, I said, OK, Claude, do some effort for understanding where you are and then switch away and it will be normal for me. I enjoy it.

How long did it take before you settled do you think? Almost three weeks. Three weeks. Because I put my energy also because it can be more but I realized I need to be swept away inside because Leave the situation going so far it will be difficult after for adapt myself and Obviously coming from around Madrid is one thing but to be at Chelsea under Claudio Ranieri. What was the expectation like? Difficult because the foot was long ball, running, up and down, contact, oh my god. Play 12.30, one o'clock because in the time I play nine o'clock, siesta, relaxing, I don't understand. For me it will be a quick change because I came too late in the Premier League. My transfer would be so late.

It would be difficult but I said, okay, it's my job. They take me with waiting so long because they fight for me. They give a response in a good way and yeah just work harder and put discipline in my life and do my best. So how did you feel then when, say it was Ranieri that brought you to the club but now here comes Jose Mourinho, what were your initial expectations of him even after you know the interview where he says he's the special one. Different manager, different concepts about the football. I think at this time the club wants progress. They want the best, all time the best, but they choose one convince them he can do it.

I think Jose knew his strong ambition. When I come to Chelsea he knew he can do something but in football you never know, you can calculate. It's not one plus one, two now. He needs understanding also the Premier League and the season players he has Premier League and see the players he has for making him successful. He pushed us to do his own ambition. He knew his own ambition would be good also for the player and for the club. Do you think it's his ambition that made him so successful throughout his career? Yes, yes. I think the way the players have their own ambition, the manager also has his own ambition.

But he needs to be compatible with the players, with the club. Because some managers have their own ambitions from them, from their own career. But José, I think he makes this for, makes it successful for bringing the club to a different level. And for Mourinho, obviously we see the success that he has. How would you describe his style and especially his management style towards his players? He's like a father with a strong character and dictator. I think in this time he need do this because he have a young talent, not so disciplined, not so competitive, they never win strong trophy, it need be like this.

And he realize he can get a lot of things from this group, this player. He knew he would make success because he sees the character, he sees we come in a dressing room and a training room with happiness every single day. And when you have a player like this, anyway maybe you will not win it sweat away but you will have success you will win trophy i think he knew this. What was your best moment you think in the chelsea shirt? The first premier league the first trophy we win it's like 15 here i think 15 is in is be uh dreaming for the fan first also dreaming for us because of because this time we fight with Arsenal,

Manchester United, it's a big team. I'm talking about the great players, front and earth. We are playing derby, Tottenham, waste time, every single game is like tough, it's like energy, you come back home, sleep two days after, you come back, it's like, it's never home, it's never home. And I think Jojen this time, he's understanding he can lose his potential. He makes sure, sure we keep going forward for take some positives every single day in the training ground game and then we realise we can do it. Hello and welcome to the Inside Track, the Formula One podcast with exclusive access

to Red Bull Racing. I'm broadcaster and Formula One fan Rick Edwards. And I'm sports journalist Matt Magendie. Each week we break down the latest F1 news, the backstage gossip and who's under pressure. This week we'll delve into the truth about Red Bull's so-called crisis talks. Is it a load of bull? And we look ahead to Saudi Arabia. He's really good.

He's gonna win it, don't worry about that. Experience F1 like never before by tuning into the Inside Track, wherever you get your podcasts. The new series of Match of the Day Top 10 is out now, only available on BBC Sounds. Join myself, Garolinnika, Alan Shearer, Micah Richards and my dog as we dig into the Top 10 of the Champions League. We go through our favourite goalscorers, best moment and even our all-time 11th. Now that, gentlemen, is a list.

No, we'll need to get on a list. You didn't get on the reserve list. You can listen right now on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily Podcast on BBC Sounds. So what I need to know now, for you, I see you as a defender midfielder, everyone sees that when they think of Claude McAlely, but is it true you started off as a winger?

Yes. How does this happen? I think everybody see me like defender and be a good dribbler, very good, scoring goals, I see a lot, and some managers managers they see me do many things, they put me in this position. I think for my brain because I adapt quickly for different situations. And when they actually put you back there to begin with, were you okay with it or were you frustrated because you wanted to be a winger? The beginning frustrates me. It frustrates me, I realise, okay, I'm dead, okay. One guy,

player, he tell me the truth. My father tell me already the truth. But when the message coming from your father, he's your father. You trust him but not 100%. He's a Mazzinio. I play with him in South Africa. He tells me, listen to me. I know you can't play there. But this position, you are the boss. You can do everything you want. I say, I want to touch the ball. I tell him. I say, no, here you touch the ball.

Here you decide when the ball needs to go left, right, behind. He showed me every single finished training I stayed with him. He showed me how to do it and he gave me this smiling pleasure and I always say thank you from him. Listen, you did it so well that these days we talk about the Machiavelli role when we think about defensive midfielders. When did you first hear that and also how does that make you feel when people compare you to all the players today? I see this difference when I think the Premier League gave me this platform for the English football give you one position because

not everybody has a position in the football world. It's unbelievable for me. It makes me understanding and it gives a message always for the young boys, the people play this position. It's not so easy that you need to be enjoying, smiling, happiness, because you give happiness for your team-mates all the time, from the front and you. This happiness is generosity. You can play this position if you have this kind of capacity. Yeah, for sure. And in this last year we've seen Rodri win the Ballon d'Or. How important do you think that is for people that play that position?

It's amazing. For my side, finally. Finally they recognise, finally, anyway it's not been my generation, but finally they recognise this position is very important in football. Not just the twicker, not just winger, not just number 10. This position is the key. As somebody who coaches players, what makes that role so important? What do you need to see from somebody in that position for them to be good? Because you are in the middle, you are confronted with the best player.

The striker comes there, the winger sometimes comes there, both wingers. The best midfielder comes there, so you switch all the time around the best player and if he manages cleverly, he still has the balance for your teammate and your team. It means like it's not just football, you have a very great brain for learning, for listening, for feeling, smelling, it's responsibility because your decision you make, it can be dangerous for your defender, in a bad way, in a good way, and therefore your offensive player, you bring the ball in a good way. How do you think the role has evolved across the years? Because we talk about, say, Rodri there winning the Ballon d'Or, but some of that comes with the goals and the assist that

he has as well. Do you think it's more a case of having to do more on the other side as well or do you think it's the same as it always has been? No because I see this position you can do many things. I play different position, dribbling, everything like this and this position sometimes you don't need dribbling. Dribbling you mean like control pass between, between, between but sometimes your opponent is so between between between but sometimes your opponent is so big strong also you need to have the capacity you know of choice dribbling I don't see this anymore in the midfielder in my time I do it when I can't do pass everything like this no possibility you need to have the capacity for dribbling to take the ball far away. I think sometimes in football we make mistakes, stop people dribbling.

Football is dribbling. Which players since you retired have played the game in your position the way that you like them to? The way that suits how you want to see the position Being played the beginning I see can't do it. I Think in this position because of my generation. We have a strong character We are very very very disciplined strong out there. We can't have argument with a manager, but in a good way in In a box. No media explaining ourselves. Now I don't see this kind of player anymore. You need to have conversation. He's like your father,

he's your mentor and I think Kante no have this. I'm sure she have this. He can be better than me, much better. He can be better than you Claude Baccalene. I hope so. I want people to join my society, take this position, because the young boys need examples. They need to learn from us, understanding how we mean, how the sacrifice I do for this, how the discipline I do. I'm not perfect. We all do mistakes in our life.

Life, but give them the key. After it depends on them, how they love this job or not. How important do you think mentality is in that position? Or is it more a case of being, say, tactically or technically good? I think tactically. I'm not technically like dribbling, simple technically. Vision, before I get the ball I know exactly where the goalie will go. Or attacking, I know exactly where the ball will arrive in the box.

Your position is very important. Very important for making sure you will be not in difficulty because some people want to do different jobs. I do my job, I do this job, I do this job. No, no, no. Do your job because if you do this job, another job. This is a guy in your place. What will you do? To go back to Jose Mourinho, what did the squad make of Mourinho when he first came in? Because this is a guy that just won the Champions League, did they have any expectations about what he was going to be like and whether he was going to be good for the club?

No, he won the Champions League but he managed a great player in Porto. We talk about Cavalù, he comes, Ferreira, Deco, no, no, no, he has his own experience, he has his own team, good team, but his manager, ambition manager, he wants to move on, move on, it's like player, when you play some team and Barcelona Madrid is coming. We will go. Anywhere you will go for have this experience. And I think it is opportunity for Moinho. He knew he can build something good because in this time Chelsea is little bit

down from Manchester, Arsenal. It's big club but it's about the standing. So Manchester United and Arsenal, you say they were probably the toughest teams to play against in the Premier League at that time. Well who were the toughest players that you faced either in that time or another time in your career? I'm not sure if I can tell you, but I've worked in gigs, school, Ronaldo. What was so tough about them in your mind? Great player, clever, competitor, fighter, runny, fighting all the time. It's like you see also for the spectator when they knew Chelsea, Manchester United, it's like we knew it would be tough.

They knew it would be tough. Ferdinand, I'm talking about Evra. We knew you need need sleep two days. I have good energy because it would be 90 minutes fighting. This is football. The feeling before the game you know, you feel. The looking, the... Yeah, I've been loving playing this kind of game.

So you enjoyed the battle? That's the big thing for you? Of course. With Arsenal, my friend Thierry Henry, Viera, Pires, Wilt Holt fighting, Bergkamp. I'm talking about the... And this time you have all the Premier League, you go everywhere. Bolton, you play against Anel Card, Hocka, everywhere you go. It's tough. But nice, nice, nice, nice. Would you say that's your favourite era in football?

My favourite era? I have a lot. But I appreciate Spain and England. Well, thank you very much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure. Pleasure. And maybe the next Macalély is developing through the ranks. I hope so. I hope so. It's the Premier League review on the Football Daily every Sunday as we look back at all the action from the weekend. From expert analysis. They need to compete.

That's your responsibility. So should we start questioning you as a manager then? To the biggest debates. He's a free agent at the end of the year. Clubs can contact him. Who knows what's arrived in the inbox. The Premier League review only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Hello and welcome to the Inside Track, the Formula One podcast with exclusive access to Red Bull Racing. I'm broadcaster and Formula One fan Rick Edwards. And I'm sports journalist Matt Magendie. Each week we break down the latest F1 news, the backstage gossip and who's under pressure. This week we'll delve into the truth about Red Bull's so-called crisis talks. Is it a load of bull? And we look ahead to Saudi Arabia. who's under pressure.