Football Daily - In Focus with Thomas Frank and Gary Lineker

Episode Date: January 18, 2025

Gary Lineker invites Brentford manager Thomas Frank round his house for a chat and spot of lunch The Danish manager talks about the journey he's taken the club on, becoming only the Brentford head coach or manager to achieve promotion to the top-flight of English football.

Hello and welcome to a very special Football Daily with me, Gary Lineker. The Brentford manager, Thomas Frank, is popping round to my house for a spot of dinner and we'll talk all things Brentford and football. And do you know what? I think that's him arriving just now. How are you? I'm very good. Good to see you. Good to see you.

Good to see you too. This is Filbert. Filbert. How are you? Can you know why Filbert? No. Filbert Street. Do you know what Filbert Street is?

No, I should. It's Leicester City's ground before it was renamed King Power. We learn every day. There you go. That's what we're here for. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Welcome. Anyway, come in.

I'm being very brave though. I'm doing fish for someone from Denmark. I eat everything, but I love fish. Good. Fantastic. Took a chance. And a good glass of wine. If not, I've got cottage pie in there that I can heat up that I cooked yesterday.

What about the white wine? White is okay? Yeah, yeah. more than fine. Good. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you everyone. Lovely to have you here.

Thank you. I was in Denmark recently. It was really good. Yeah. And then we went to a little... I can't remember the name of it, but it was kind of a... more of a French bistro in the centre. And the chef's quite well known.

He's written books and stuff. And he came over and he went, I really like Micah Richards and Alan Shearer. You didn't tell them? Random, yeah. You didn't tell them? Of course I didn't. No, no, of course.

I told him, wow, the chef came over. He said, he really doesn't like either. Yeah. No, good. It's good. It's a lovely city, isn't it? Copenhagen. I'm of course slightly biased. I think if we had more sun there, it would be the best city in the world. That's it. You can't have everything. You can't have everything. That's why in the summer, nothing beats Copenhagen. You can't have everything. It's like football. You throw one of these.

Yeah. Thank you. Fingers. Fingers. I like that. It's like football, you throw one of these. Thank you. Fingers. Fingers. I like that. It's like the crab salad, a little bit of spice. I like it. Mmm. Mmm. Very good. Special recipe?

Just play around. You cook. My wife would say no. I love food. I would say I can cook everything from a recipe. I'm not saying I'm good at it. But I love food and I love to have more time to cook. The problem is I don't... If I work too much, I don't relax enough. You're a coach. Yeah, yeah. I was chatting to Harry Redknapp yesterday, and I was saying,

what's the bug, what's the addiction? Because they always keep going, even when we're talking about Wayne Rooney and Frank Lampard, they're taking jobs that are really difficult. Yeah. Because they absolutely, obviously they've had the buzz of coaching. What is it that draws you in to that extent? I admire them massively for doing that. And also for taking jobs that are not that fancy

or good. Those two clubs are tough jobs where you need to go the hard miles. I really admire them for that because they don't have to, but they want to because they I guess clearly enjoy it or they want to improve themselves. Sometimes I'm thinking to myself, why is it that you keep going? You keep wanting to do more. It's the ups and downs. It's ups and downs, and football is so emotional, even that I need to keep a calm head and don't be too high or too low and all that, and I talk about my 24-hour rule.

I can only celebrate for 24 hours. I can only be sad for 24 hours because then we need to go again. But it's so clean. That sounds easier said than done. Oh, it is. Yeah. I think when you lose a game, it's so tough for the next 24 hours. You just feel it in the body.

If you win a game, it's just like a relief. And if you're in a club as Brentford, we need to get used to we only win between 10 and 15, 16 games in the league. Of course, we want to win more, but you know. I think I will say that if you want to be a sustainable Premier League club over time, I think the minimum criteria is always, of course, stay in the league.

But on top of that, we would like to try to be an asset. You're the second longest serving manager in the Premier League. Yeah, that's crazy. After Pep. Yeah, I's crazy. After Pep. Yeah, I never thought that. You're Pep, eh? And then he's extending his contract and I'm like, hey, why are you doing that?

Where did you go out? Then I used my local pub quite a bit. Local pub? Yeah, local pub. You know, I never thought I should do that, but after years I'm almost turning English. So much like a Ted Lasso, it must be. Yeah, exactly. Alright, we'll just leave that and that will come nicely up.

Doesn't take long. No, it's nice. I like it. What have you made of the season? Overall, quite happy. I'm extremely pleased with the offensive way of playing. I think we score a lot of goals and for a club of our size and Boccia and all that we can produce goal scorers. It's a well-run club, Brentford, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

The recruitment's been really good, the recruitment of yourself as well, obviously. The culture's interesting because I've heard you talk about that before. What's the most important aspect of the culture is interesting, because I've heard you talk about that before. What's the most important aspect of the culture? What does it need to be? The most important? Oh, that's a good question.

Yeah. I'm very rare to ask a good question. The most important is the people. You know, I said that before, no dickheads. Yeah, the no dickheads line is interesting. I took that from the, stole that from the All Blacks. Yeah, I've seen that. But when you say no dickheads, what do you mean by that?

Because everyone could be a dickhead on occasion, all of us. Exactly. I include myself, we all got that tiny, nasty side of us. If we get pushed enough, no doubt about that. Do you ever lose it? Do you ever lose you with the players? And when you do, do you go home sometimes and think, oh, or not? Is it always fairly measured?

I think in general, because I think I'm a relatively positive guy, I also know this very competitive environment is good sometimes to show. Yeah, you need that. And I can't really, I don't think anyone really can turn it on and then it's real. I think you need to be like instinct because something is really irritating you, so it's just a burst. It is interesting, isn't it? Because it's not like you're dealing with just a few individuals. I mean, squads are big now,

aren't they? They've got to be. Managing players when they're not in the starting line-up as well and keeping everybody sweet, it can't be easy. I would say it's impossible to keep everyone happy every day. Because you're not happy if you're not playing.

Most players. Been a starting player, and then you're out. The next two or three weeks is tough because you're irritated and you think the manager is all kind of bad words. But after those two or three weeks, they seem to be a little bit more, okay, it is what it is, and then they get along with it. So I think that's the easier period. And then, of course, I think you need to, as I say, you need to touch the players,

either me or the coaches, and I think you need to get, you know, how are you? And I think that's important. That would not have existed in my day. I think that's important. No one ever said that existed in my day. I think that's important. No one ever said that. I don't think any manager or coach ever. I mean, I got on very well with Terry Venn. We were almost friends, so it's slightly different.

But I don't remember every coach going, you're okay, you're all right. No things. Or just that you're training well. Keep going. Or sometimes you need to, of course, give them a reminder you need to train better. Because right now, the guy ahead of you is better, I think, and he's training better than you. So you need to step up. Maybe you think you're training

good, but you're not training good. You do that, yeah? Yeah, I do that, yeah. You compare the person in the... Yeah, sometimes, yeah. So you know the players, they shouldn't give me right, you know, shouldn't give me any excuse that I can use not to play them. So if they are out of the team and they train bad, you can see I was right. They need to train fantastic to prove me wrong. Is it hard leaving players out? Yeah, by far the hardest thing.

Is that the worst thing? I always thought that. Because I know me, I'd be like, I'll leave you out this week, but I'll play you next week. I'm a wimp. I can't cope with confrontation. Upsetting people. Because you know you're going to upset them by leaving them out this week. It is the hardest bit. Every single time. Because all of them want to play. And in a way, I all my players. I don't want them to do well. So, ah, that's not... Yeah, that's the toughest thing. But you can't pick everyone.

No, no, you can't. And that's why I also understand that I say, you know, if you're a player and you haven't played become a regular starter in a two, three year spell, you need to move on. Unless you really can accept your role. I think that's my point of view. This is probably a really unfair question. Because you never played professionally, do other players go, well, hang on a minute, have you ever had that where, well, what do you know? Yeah, no.

Never had that? No one said that to me. No. Maybe they have thought it. I admire you doing that. I would not be able to talk while I'm doing dinner. If I need to do more food, I need to be on my own, glass of wine, and then I can serve it.

I can't do... I know what you mean. We're okay. I haven't noticed. I like this. Very nice. Are you... Can you fish?

Are you fishing sometimes, you know? I did when I was a kid. My dad was a big fisherman. It was his passion in life. And I loved going with him. And then... But once I'd been playing football, I stopped. So I'm not...

I'm not patient. Sea fishing occasionally. Yeah. It's quite... He's passionate in life and I loved going with him but once I'd been playing football I stopped. So I'm not patient. I'm not patient. Sea fishing occasionally. I'm not patient enough. One of my best friends, two of my best friends, they're actually very big fishers. They go to Norway and try to catch salmon.

Yeah, yeah. So they catch like 10 kilos, 12 kilos of salmon. I like the potatoes. Just squeeze them. Yeah, they're boiled potatoes, but you squeeze them and then just roast them slightly. Got the sauce here as well. Very nice, Gary. Thank you.

Well done, you. It's not easy talking and cooking. No, I just switch off. I promise you I couldn't do it. My wife feels you're absolutely hammering me so I need to stay absolutely focused. I think if you

don't want to do podcasts and TV shows you should do food maybe. Open a restaurant. Never thought about that. I've got a bit of a fraud because I'm still

just learning. That's the problem when you've been good at something you want to be the best at the other bit as well before you go into it.

Yeah, exactly. But I love, absolutely, it's my new passion in life. My one regret, probably my biggest regret in life is that I didn't start when I was young. Yeah, it is a skill set. Actually, I thought about it. We always compare when we look into different sports, business, art, all that. I think the position or job I can compare myself best with is probably a chef.

Really? Yeah. Because I think a chef, he needs to be able to cook the food himself. So the big restaurants, he's maybe the big chef or the master chef, and he's got these 20 chefs who are doing everything for him. Team sport. Yeah, exactly. So he's leading all these many chefs through his vision, his recipes, and they are maximizing

every little detail, but he know how the perfect outcome should be so I'm the head coach and it's my vision and I need to get my coaches and staff and make sure everything is in like in my head and I need to be able to coach it in my opinion on the pitch myself so I think there's so many parallels that you can use. No, you're absolutely right now, think about it. Chef in a restaurant with the team, everyone's important, need to know their jobs. What makes a great coach, Thomas? A lot of hard hours. But I also think I learned over time, I use this leadership mentor,

I also need to have enough energy to be fresh enough to take the good decisions. So it's not always just success to work from seven to seven. So sometimes you have to say, I need a bit of rest. I need to rest, yeah. When do you do that? International break? Yeah, I've been good at that.

I take a week off every single time. And I think it's crucial to keep the energy high. What's the hardest thing about, particularly probably coaching a club where you've been a few years, because sometimes we've seen that eventually players can not necessarily get bored of the coach but sick of the sound of his voice, those sorts of things. What do you do to guard against that? I'm sometimes very tired of listening to myself. Are you aware of that?

Mmm, I try to be. I try to be. I'm also aware of not speaking too much both when I'm coaching and in meetings and individual meetings But of course, it's my voice that is the main voice at the training ground and then i think can i develop a little bit so also sometimes can we get a new coach into the coaching team sometimes they also come with a new drill so it's always a little bit refreshing refreshing things so i'm aware of that and as you say the style I need to change things to also keep myself

on it hence the slightly shift this season yeah yeah so that's a little bit back to my mindset I always wanted to play

offensive football and we started last season but we played basically all systems in the six years have been not that it's only about systems

it's just it's a combination of what's best for the players we got and we have this style but what kind of players because I can't pick all the best players in the world and so that's one thing and but also to quite keep developing the team and how do you do that how do you keep pushing them making them a little bit better improve them? Then I think it can't be the same, it's never the same eleven as playing. But this season for example we've got Mikkel Dammenskaard in the team.

Gives something different to the team, adds something and I think he added a good layer. He's got a real quality back. Fantastic quality. So that suddenly just changed the added a good layer. He's got a real quality back. Fantastic quality. So that suddenly just changed the dynamic a little bit. We got Stefan Van Den Berg in, first played right back, now he's in as a centre back. Also changed the dynamic a little bit. So I think that way is also a part of developing the team. And then you've got some, you say, you call them good pros. Let's say Christian Urgaard, Matthias Jensen, Vitali Arnold, three of our key midfielders, Ethan Pinnock, let's say them, has played a lot.

Then it's up to my job to see, hmm, when are they dropping a little bit. But all those four are still the ones who train the hardest, so that's good. But if they don't, then it's my job to say, you're dropping now, to get them up to the highest standard. You must be monitoring every asset, because players are monitoring now, aren't they? Do you look at that kind of data a lot or not? Or do you go more from what you see with your own eyes? I always use my own eyes first. Only you? No, no, no, no, no. I always...

You're saying you're only using your own eyes. I need that soon, by the way. No, I use my eyes first to what I see in the game or in the training and then I always back it up with numbers. So I'm thinking, hmm, it doesn't look like he's working hard enough. So then you look into the data. And then I look into the data. And then I can see, hmm, he actually worked hard enough. Maybe I just caught a bad moment after he'd done three sprints or whatever. I'm so relieved that data wasn't wrong.

I think you're cheating a little bit. I think you're cheating a little bit. Then you go, well, hang on a minute. You want me in the box, don't you? Yeah. And the good thing about the data is that if he's not working hard enough, then it's easier for me to show the data.

Look, it's not only... It's easier, right? Yeah, yeah. It's just a matter of opinion. Plus a video clip, of course. Can you see it here? You didn't spin back. And here the data.

What do you think is the best you can get out of Brentford football? We need to win the league one day, right? It's up to Leicester, you know. I don't know anyone who's ever told you. Leicester is a fantastic team. It might be Forrest this year. Yeah, exactly. I mean, look what Forrest are doing. Fantastic.

I mean, that's extraordinary, isn't it? It's very, very well done. And also, don't you think that's good for the Premier League? The Leicester City's of this world. And if Forest can continue what they're doing. I think we need clubs like Leicester and Forest, and Brentford, Bournemouth. Clubs that's doing different.

And breaking into the so-called traditional clubs how can you be a sustainable for other years that is an unbelievable achievement it is do you think you get enough credit for it I don't read everything so I don't know you should just read the stuff when you've won yeah Yeah, exactly. But I do that. I never read anything when I lose. And I read occasionally when we win because I think we all, I think it's just completely honest, we all need to boost the ego a little bit and I think that's important. Confidence is important. Confidence and all that. But it gives me absolutely nothing if I read something if we lose or if we play bad.

I'm the first one, I know it. Did it get to you a little bit earlier in the season? It seems to have been resolved now, but the difference between your home form and away form, did that cause you sleepless nights on occasion? No. I think in the beginning, a very tough programme away from home. City United, Liverpool, Tottenham I thought it was. Fulham away is never easy, even though we were leading in two injury times, it was a tough one to lose. I always look at the performance and I thought

there was not too much in it. We had one bad performance against Fulham, the rest was quite good, but it was not consistent over 90 minutes. But of course, when people keep asking you questions about it, it's nice to get it out the way. Apologies, apologies. You love football, don't you? Yeah. Yeah, me too.

Me too. It's been the one ever present in my life and I assume yours as well. un oedd arfer yn bresennol yn fy mhrofiad ac rwy'n ystyried eich cwrs hefyd. Beth ydych chi eisiau nawr? Oherwydd rydych chi'n amlwg wedi bod yn amlwg, rydych chi wedi llwyddo i fynd i'r cyfan gwirioneddol i'r cyfnod cyntaf o chwarae gwyddoniaeth y Llywodraeth Cymru yn y Llywodraeth hwnnw. Beth mae'r toffi hwn yn y dyfodol? Nawr, mae'n anffur i mi ofyn y cwestiwn hwn yn ffordd oherwydd mae Brentford yn clwb club and you've been there a long time. But at some point would you like a job? I always say and I mean that because it's extremely important to highlight. I'm very, very happy at Brentford.

It's in many ways the perfect football job. You can still be ambitious. Yes, I know it's difficult maybe to win the Premier League, but you can still build a club and we can still have a chance to win something, a cup maybe, maybe not as favourites, but there's things we definitely still can achieve. And because the environment and the ownership and everything is so good, that means my day-to-day job is extremely good.

And that's worth a lot. I know that day I maybe walk into another club, that will not, that if I walked into another club, that will be completely different because I need to get everything sorted, all that will take time. So I'm very happy here. What happened in the future, I don't know. I'm probably pretty sure I'll probably not be in Brentford forever.

Well, managers are never anywhere forever. No, no, that's what I mean. Very, very few managers never get the sack. Thomas, it's been a pleasure. Pleasure. Thank you very much. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It's not easy.

No, no, but you're asking too many questions, so I need to have a glass now and cut so I can eat, OK? So that's it for this special episode of the Football Daily. You can also catch our chat on the BBC iPlayer and on YouTube as well. On your next episode, it's the Premier League review with Darren Fletcher. We'll catch you then. as well. On your next episode it's the Premier League review with Darren Fletcher.

We'll catch you then.