Football Daily - Mark Chapman meets….JJ Watt

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

NFL legend and Burnley co-owner JJ Watt chats to Mark Chapman. They discuss everything from bench pressing with the Burnley players to the uncertainty of the NFL draft. Watt opens up on why he decided to invest in Burnley – and why once he did so, he was determined to win over the fans, just as he did after moving to Houston as an American footballer. They also discuss goalkeeper James Trafford, the difference between sports that do and do not have relegation and the contrasting schedule between the NFL and the EFL.TIMECODES 0 mins: JJ’s interest in learning about the business of football 4 mins: The importance of community when you join a club 5 mins: The danger element of investing in a sport that has relegation 8 mins: The insight that JJ can offer the board as a former professional athlete. 12 mins: James Trafford – and the art of goalkeeping 16 mins: The difference in football and NFL schedules 19 mins: JJ’s experiences in the NFL draft 25 mins: The big salaries paid to sportsmen and how they handle them 26 mins: The importance of giving back5 Live/Sports Extra Commentaries this week:Wednesday 19th March – Manchester City v Chelsea – Women’s Champions League Quarter Final – 8pm KO on 5 Live Thursday 20th March – Greece v Scotland – Nations League – 7.45pm KO on 5 Live Friday 21st March – England v Albania – World Cup Qualifier – 7.45pm KO on 5 Live

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily podcast with Mark Chapman. JJ, what? Hello. Welcome to the Football Daily. Thank you very much for being here. You've just come out of a Burnley board meeting. Do you enjoy those? I told them at the end, I said, I'm going to do a BBC interview now. You guys will see all this on TV in about an hour Everything we just talked about open book on it. No, it was good. It was really good. I mean, it's certainly one of the most

enjoyable parts for me because that's why I got into all this is the passion the history to the tradition, but also I love the competition aspect of it the business side side of it, seeing how you can improve not only on the pitch but off the pitch, trying to enhance my knowledge base so that I can hopefully continue this journey myself. So you make sure you're across every aspect of this business, do you? I try and learn as much as I can, yes. There's certainly some that I'm much more well versed in than others, but I love to ask a lot of questions

and I love to try and learn. And these are not only a crash course in business, but in football and personnel management, every single aspect of the club. So it is thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyable for me. Go back to when you, when did you first start thinking about investing in a British football club?

And maybe also just that bit of background for people listening of your other businesses and your business acumen as you were coming to the end of your playing day? Yeah, so early in my career, obviously, I was just playing ball and trying to be great at that and that continued. But the further you go, the more you learn about money management, financial, everything. I come from a middle class family. We weren't rich, but we weren't poor.

We had it well. And then obviously, I'm very fortunate to have made a whole lot of money playing a game. And so as you go, there's plenty of people with advice on what you're supposed to do, how you're supposed to do it. But I knew that as it grew and grew that I would want to do something, especially as it got to the end of my career to keep the competitive juices flowing. So team ownership came into play there and just

started looking all around America. Became really interested in English football back in 2011 and then it started to get more and more appealing to me and I really enjoyed it. There's many reasons why I love it and then I started poking around different teams, having conversations and a path that eventually led me here to Burnley. I mean, there are so many things I could go into with you there. Why? I mean, there are several Americans now who, and American groups as well, not just individuals who are Invested in a lot of English football and British football actually look at the 49ers about to invest in Rangers

Why would you what do you think the attraction is of of our football to invest it? I think each person has their own different reasons I think that when you look at the 49ers group and their things, they're going to have different reasons than me as an individual. I mean, um, for me personally, you look at an American, American football club, you know, right now they're all valued in the hot billions of billions of dollars. Well, what did Washington, Washington was last one. Six point six, six point zero five billion dollars. So you take my amount of money and you put it into that

and you're congratulations. You have one seat at a game, not at the board table, not at anything. But you come over here and the valuations are different and there's more opportunity. And you also can kind of choose the level you want to be at. You want to go into Tottenham or Man United or Chelsea. That's the American football level.

You drop down to championship if you want to, you drop all the way down to League One, League Two. But I saw an opportunity where I could get involved at the level I wanted to be involved at, be in the board meetings, learn, grow, while also injecting something and providing a service to the club that I feel I'm bringing something to the table myself in terms of global notoriety, more eyeballs to the game, etc. But ultimately, the thing that brings you to English football is the history, tradition,

and passion in supporters. That's it. And community as well, which has always been a hugely important part of your playing career as well. I mean, you have bought into that right from the very start. I don't see much point in doing something if you're not going to go all in on it. And so for me, when I was drafted by the Houston Texans, I had never been to Houston before. I had no connection to Houston.

But if I'm going to ask those people to come cheer for me on game day, I better invest in those people also. Same over here in Burnley. If I want these people to believe in me as one of the members of their ownership group, they have no reason or right to do so. I'm an American with zero ties to Burnley. Why would they do that? So I better show them that I'm willing to come over and

invest in them and to put my time and energy and to learn about them You can't just expect it to happen Is there the other thing that always strikes me with it as well is there's a there's a danger element for you Investing investing in a in a football club because you can go up as what you financially or emotionally But if you if you have a terrible seat and you didn't have very many, but if you have a terrible season at the Houston Texans, nothing's going to really happen disastrously by you in terms of relegation, my own mental status. It's pretty bad. Obviously. Yes. But relegation. I understand what you mean. But I'm there

for your investment in something like this much more volatile much more volatile Yes, but that's also the attraction is that you can purchase in the champions Let me know look at Rexam. Everybody wants to talk for exome you look at Rexam That's the attraction is you can take a club that you buy for two million pounds and you can turn them into a 10 24,000 X multiple of that. That's also the thrill of it. That's why you get invested in it. That's why it's so exciting and exhilarating.

I wish there was a way for us to do that on our side, but there never will be. Do you? I think it's the most pure form of sporting competition that you can have when it's, you're going to go into a deeper conversation on merit based on finances dumped into it and salary caps and things like that. But when there is a literal consequence for winning and losing, it makes sport as close to the truest form of sport that you can have.

When you know that there's nothing bad that can happen if you finish last, it kind of dilutes the product. In some ways, having worked in both sports for a long time and obviously you're now heavily involved in both sports, you kind of want a sort of amalgamation of the two at times. I agree. I think that if there was a way where you can include some form of salary cap and things like that,

I do think there's a benefit to the parity. I think that's one thing that makes the NFL so great is that the league is designed for everybody to try and hover around 500. Now you're going to have outliers. But that's why if you finish last place, you pick first in the draft. There's a salary cap where everybody has to spend in this range. That makes the product on the field that much better where truthfully you can have on any given day one team beat another. Whereas there's no, I mean I'll never forget the stat last year on the first day of the Premier League when we were playing Man City and their three defenders cost more than our entire wage bill in the history of our club since 1882. You know, like that's, that doesn't

happen in the NFL. It's just different. But you view that, you evidently view that as a challenge. You don't view that as a sort of woe is us. How are we ever going to deal with this? There's an element, unless I'm reading you wrong, of you relishing that. I think I would be, I'd be pretty miserable if I didn't believe there was some way to change it a little bit, change our fortunes and find a way. Now, am I naive enough to think that we can win the Premier League next year if we go up? No, I understand how all this works, but I think the fun in it and the competition in it is in how do you make those small little rotations to get yourself up and then find a way and yeah, you might have to get bumped back down, but then you get up and up and now all of a sudden you go from trying to get up to the Premier League

and now you're in a relegation battle to now you know you're in that 17th 16th battle now you're going up to the 12th 13th battle those are the little wins that you try and make and sure do we all dream of a Leicester style run one day absolutely but I think it's more in the individual little things trying to make your club better on a year by year basis. I mean, you've obviously been in a whole variety of different expertise to the boardroom here. Do you think your insight into players and what players want and the psychology of players can transcend different sports

and is one of your main strengths here? I would say that's certainly the thing that I bring to the board and to this organization that nobody else can. We have unbelievably brilliant minds in the boardroom. I just left a meeting with all of them, and I listened to them speak, whether it's on finances, organization, and they're brilliant.

The one thing I can definitively speak on more knowledgeably than them is what it's like to be in a locker room, what it's like to be in a locker room, what it's like to be in a competition, what it's like to be at this point in the season and fighting for things. And just yesterday I was at the training ground most of the day and having breakfast with players in the locker room with the players in the weight room with the players, just talking to them.

In the weight room with the players. Yeah, sometimes I like to let them know. I was going to say. Credibility comes quick when you got 400 pounds on the bar. But those are the moments to me that I'm the most useful to this club. Because I can sit down and have a conversation with a player, whether he's going through a rough stretch.

And I can talk to him about that rough stretch. You have to remember these are you know 22, 23, 24 year old kids. They're going through all this for the first time. I'm fortunate enough to have been through this before and so I can talk to them like how do you mentally handle that? I know what you're feeling or we're going through a great stretch and we need to keep it going and we can't get complacent. These conversations to me are the most value that I can bring to the club. Do you look at them sometimes at 21 and 22 and I do I like my eldest is nearly 22 and I look at them I think my god, you're still so young and yet you're having to carry all of this responsibility And even even though you're you're a lot younger than me

Do you look at them and think, my God, you've got to carry all of this. And yet you would have had to have done the same when you were drafted. Yes. And I think that you try and help them understand the balance of burden versus beauty. It's such a, yes, you could on one hand look at it as a burden and that's the part where if somebody's struggling It can crush you under its weight where you feel that

Whether it's the team the fans Whether it's your future contract possibilities all that all the sudden weighs down on you and you have one bad performance but on the flip side you try and get them to understand the beauty of A it's only one performance B Look at everything you have in front of you get them to understand the beauty of A, it's only one performance, B, look at everything you have in front of you, look at all these opportunities and how much you can change your life, your family's life, future generations forever. Not only in your own life, but in your town's life. Like I, when I watch these games and I

go to these matches with these fans and these supporters, I told our players this last year in one of our meetings, I said, you truly do not understand how you affect these people day to day. You control their attitude for an entire week based on how you perform. And I'm not talking winning or losing. I'm talking how you perform in terms of attitude,

in terms of effort, in terms of intensity. And that's the thing that I'm proud of, of our guys, is when I watch our matches, we celebrate clear outs just as much as we celebrate goals. And I think that's really cool. And there's actually sort of no better example of that within the Burnley squad than James Trafford really, who had such a tough season in the Premier League

last season, certainly not all down to him, but given the style of football and the pressure that you were constantly under. And yet this season is part of a defence who has put together this remarkable run and tried to get you to come out of retirement for Cincinnati as well. I mean, that is the perfect example

of what you've been talking about. Exactly, as a young kid, extremely talented, thrust into a situation where he's now number one on a Premier League club at a very young age, especially for a keeper. And it didn't go as well as he hoped it would without a doubt. And that would mentally destroy a lot of human beings. But instead, James Trafford knows who he is, he's confident in who he is, and he came back this year and is putting on performances.

I mean, two penalties within ten minutes. Like, he's doing things that you're just watching, like there's no chance, there's no... Sure enough, every single time, but that's because of the belief in himself and the amount of work that he's put in for it and he deserves everything that he gets but I was also okay with the 2-1 win. Were you even a little bit starting to be worried about the fact? Not a little bit I was actually starting to get like I because my wife I've said

this before but so my wife came up to me before the last match and it was he had saved 12 matches in a row clean sheets and she was like because it started to get picked up real big in America I mean yes did it I was everywhere like it didn't really in Cincinnati no nationwide didn't start to get picked up until about 10 11 but then once he hit 12 and they put up that graphic of man united ahead 14 and that was the only one higher I mean it was on every single show So my wife one day came in and she said you're not serious about this. Are you and I said well

If he truthfully does 24 matches straight without letting in a goal that will be one of the greatest performances in the history of sport and I would be would be ridiculous not to honor my side of it. A basketball bat. Yes. So I had been training slightly differently for about three weeks leading up to the goal. And I did take a day off after he scored the goal. So I was serious. I was going to because of how insane it would be and how much respect I have for it now I'm very curious to see if he finishes the season with none and It's only the one if he tries to coax me again, but a deal's a deal. I'm sorry Am I right in thinking that when you when you sort of were first around the place that you you thought

With a bit with a few years of training that if you were gonna play football you you'd be a goalkeeper Yes, without a doubt. I Am an'm an athlete by nature so I'm very confident myself. B, I thought keeper, I'm like just stop the ball. But then as I've said many times in interviews, my wife was a professional footballer for 10 years and she said, okay, big shot, go hop in goal and let's see and I was quickly humbled I was quickly humbled and I no longer believe I could be a keeper at the Premier League level no matter how much training I have. I'm not sure I mean are there any NFL stars who could who could transition over? It all it's just I think the problem not the ball

over the top for Tyree Kelly probably run I think the issue with it is the technical tactical skill like You have to have a ball at your feet since birth to be able to do what these guys do The touch the control everything they have is incredible Could we keep up from an athleticism standpoint? Absolutely speed those types of things But there's no way we could ever do what they do with the ball at their feet when you look at the way we could ever do what they do with the ball at their feet. When you look at how players are treated in one sport compared to another, it goes back to our sort of comparisons between NFL and football. Do you think there are greater things that can be done over here to help our players?

I mean, they play such a ridiculous number of games, you know, and we look at parity and contracts, you know, there is no collective bargaining agreement over here, which is an integral part of your sport, isn't it? Yeah, I think and it's a very interesting conversation to have From the ownership side as somebody who's been a player Yeah, because the player in me says these guys are playing an insane amount of games They don't get a lot of time off, not only in the off season, but also in between matches. I mean, I'm here right now watching a Saturday, Tuesday,

Saturday situation, which is crazy. Obviously on the ownership side, I understand why it's been formatted like that from a financial standpoint and from a maximization. But the player in me does think that especially the the top six clubs who are playing in multiple competitions and making it far in those competitions it's it's extremely difficult. I think there should probably be something to alleviate that whether it's from how you build the squads or how you space them out but you look at the calendar and there's not a good

answer. I don't I don't if there, I'm sure it would be done by now, but it's, I definitely sympathize with the players. The other, but then the footballers I work with when we talk about NFL, particularly around this time of year, then say to me, but they don't have any choice where they go. And I go, well, no, not, I mean, you said, you had no idea you'd be going to Houston and that that's the flip side

They're like boy so you could end up anyway. Yeah, you could end up anyway. Yeah. No, it is a very That is certainly an aspect of it We just had a conversation with a bunch of the players yesterday where they were asking me about off seasons and they They said how long do you guys get off and I was explaining and I'm like they were like that's a lot of time I was yeah, it is. It's very nice. I'm not gonna lie It's actually more offseason if people don't know there's more offseason than the non season with the NFL, but It is a train crash every play. So it is a very different game from that standpoint But yeah, it's they're completely different even

The first thing I noticed when I came over and I started watching training sessions with the guys and the meetings and things much shorter days than our days. But I was talking to Vince at the time and I was like, man, the guys come in late, we watch meetings, we go to practice, then they go home. I was like, that's a short day, should we not have been longer? He's like, well, how many matches do you play a year? 16.

And he's like, yeah, well, we have 46. So you can't grind them every single day for nine months straight. You know, it is, it's just a very different, completely different system. The Football Daily podcast with Mark Chapman. The Euroleagues on the Football Daily. Thursdays on the Football Daily join the EuroLeagues team as we bring you the latest from across the continent with a host of top European football journalists. It's OK to be able to play the ball but you need to actually fight for the ball as well. That's what he wants of his players. I think that maybe it would be the club that could revive his self-esteem and his confidence and I think it could do wonders for the player to really grow. The Euroleagues only on the Football Daily. Listen on BBC Sounds.

The Football Daily podcast with Mark Chapman. Just on you, so you drafted in 2011, so do you go back to that? Do you play that in your mind and think, what if Houston hadn't taken me with that pick? Yeah, I got it. Because there were a bunch of- I mean, it's just weird, isn't it? Your whole life can change, yeah. And also, it's completely different over here, you're correct, in that players over here can also force their way into different situations.

You can kind of do that a little bit. You see the NBA do it a little bit more in the nfl but yeah, it's It's also just understood I guess on our side like you make Millions and millions of dollars. Yes. I'll go where they tell me to go, you know, like yeah It's like you're signing up for that like it's okay um But yeah, because on draft night there were multiple scenarios that could have played out in my situation.

Arizona had been talked about, Dallas had been talked about a couple of different things. So that whole day you're playing out in your head, like I wonder what it would be like to live in Buffalo. I wonder what it would be like to live in San Diego, completely different sides of the entire country. And you have no idea. Are you playing those scenarios out in your head on draft night or are you just going, do you know what?

I'm just gonna have to just wait and See we were in the actual we win that was there There's a Radio City music hall sitting with my family at the table I had my parents my brothers and my two high school coaches and we were all at the table just hanging out and You know Arrange so I knew I knew within probably 15 picks of where I was gonna go so I'm looking at about 15 teams where I'm like anywhere in there I could possibly go more leading up to the draft you're talking about it than on

actual draft day on actual draft day you're just kind of watching and I know for myself the first five picks I knew I wasn't gonna be in the first five picks here's watching and I got friends who are going, I'm happy for them. But then it starts to get a little more tense and then you start to lock in and you're at the table and it's a little quieter. Not as many side conversations with my brothers or with my parents. And then I'll never forget how it all went down. One of my buddies who I had been training with got drafted the pick before me.

And I went over to give him a hug and I had five and I was hugging him and I felt a tug on my jacket and my agent said you might want to sit down and then I went and sat down and my phone rang and everything else is history. And when you went there were you encouraged to have other interests, going back to the business interest, was that something that was encouraged within that locker room and that group of people for players to have other interests? Or was it at that stage, was it football, football, football? It was football, but understanding that this is much bigger than football also. You know, football is a business, the whole thing is a business.

And I also knew if you play well, you get more opportunities. So it certainly started out as just football and The whole thing is a business and I also knew if you play well you get more opportunities. So It certainly started out as just football and all I wanted to do was prove Worthy, I mean they booed me on draft night when I got picked in Houston. They didn't necessarily want me There's another guy they wanted did that. So yeah, so I I Had a mission from day one to prove those people why I Was worthy of their pick and I wanted to turn their

I wasn't angry at them they know they don't know me they have no right to cheer me or boo me I don't care but my whole goal was to come in and show them that I'm worthy and so everything was about putting it on the field and the community everything I could do I mean that could break it could break other people that couldn't it I mean let's could break other people, that, couldn't it? I mean, let's be honest with ourselves, there's $12 million they were handing me and I'm coming into a great place,

like I can't be too mad. And that guy said, they don't know me. So they in their minds, whether it's media, whatever it may be, they had somebody that they wanted and it wasn't me and that's fine. I mean, there's things that I think people do wrong wrong whether it's team selection or whether it's signing players There's things that I think might not be right at the time. Everybody has their own opinions But I just looked at as an opportunity

So this would be pretty cool if we can change their mind when you look at it at the moment Just just that sport in the NFL man. There are a lot of teams that have loads of cap space at the moment. And yet, therefore, is there a reluctance to pay players? Is there not enough players, talented players, to go around to earn the money at the moment? I'm fascinated on that, on the business point, because there's a lot of money,

but it's not going to the players. So what's happening? Well, there's, A, the cap is going up every year. I mean, the NFL is an extremely successful business. So that salary cap continues to rise every single year. So those contracts are getting larger and larger every single year. But every situation is different. Yes, sometimes you're paying a guy because you do have to fill some cap space and maybe, and then there's other times where you're trying to find a way to possibly get a guy because you do have to fill some cap space and maybe you know and then

there's other times where you're trying to find a way to possibly get a guy to fit underneath your cap but that's why this side of it the ownership side of it is so interesting because every team decides the structure of their team differently what percentage of the cap do you give to your quarterback what percentage is the pass rusher worth and how do you spread it out do you want more vets do you want more rook? Do you want more vets? Do you want more rookies? Do you want? Are you an offensive driven team or are you a balanced team or running team passing team? There's a million different things that you can do same over here

I mean, are you gonna be a low block team and you're gonna play super heavy defensively? Are you gonna be a big bodied team that can box people out and you can aerial balls over the top? Are you gonna be a in transition team or a tiki-taka team like all sorts of things. There are two other things that are different though I think. First of all everybody knows what everybody gets paid in the end. I mean it's released. I agree. It's released.

Yeah. So were you always comfortable with that? It's always been that way so I never knew any difference. So it never bothered me at all. And I also do think It so one thing I've noticed over here and it's slowed down a little bit over the years But I mean we've all seen and they'll put Marcus Rashford on the front page and say he took this Bugatti out for dinner. Can you believe that? I'm like, well, yeah, I can believe it. He makes a ton of money. What do you mean?

Do you know what that was get that was gonna be my next thing. So a player in the NFL guess pad, I can believe it. He makes a ton of money. What do you mean? Do you know what that was get that was gonna be my next thing. So a player in the NFL gets padded no Miles Garrett gets for 40 million dollars a year or whatever and people go. It's his last big payday fair fair enough He fully deserves that Erling Harlem gets 400,000 pounds a week of it. I will I There's a real difference between I'm saying is that over in our side Everybody understands it. We understand the supply and demand economics of it. We understand that it's printed on the paper This is what this guy makes it. So when you see a guy with a brand new diamond chain We're not like how could he know he that's we know how that works

That's what shocks me so much over here when everybody gets all up in arms. I'm like You're you see the TV deals that are signed you see the stadiums packed you see how many jerseys are sold worldwide you saw you I guess because it's not printed on the paper every single time exactly what they make maybe that's the mystery behind it all but we're not fooling anybody we know these guys make an incredible amount of money I don't know I think it's just something to get mad about. Yeah, I mean, the other thing though is, I would say, and you have been at the forefront of it,

certainly in Houston, is it's very important. The giving back is very important. The NFL has an award for that, which you've won, the Walter Payton Award, the sort of community man of the year across the NFL. That's a massive, that's also a very big message. Yes and I think quickly on the last conversation I have to say there's certainly a debate to be had on whether we should be paying athletes who kick a ball or throw a ball or catch a ball

hundreds of millions of dollars. No question I believe there's a conversation to be had there but the reality of capitalism and economics, that's just how it is. But yes, I think that there are many athletes who give back in incredible ways that Denver get the credit that I do because of how publicly viewed it was and everything. But I also am so fortunate to have that platform,

to have been able to raise $42 million for Houston after Hurricane Harvey and give it back. Not to mention that there was money raised from over here. There was money raised from all over the world. And it was one of the most beautiful things that I've ever witnessed because I got to see the positive side of humanity in the midst of a real struggle. And that gave me hope for the future at a time where there wasn't a lot of hope to be had and you could say that there's times like that right now where there's not a lot of hope to be had for certain people and I always go

back to that time and think about how in our darkest day in Houston the rest of the world stepped up to lift us up. Just finally I mean you're loving this aren't you? You are absolutely relishing everything that comes with being part of this football club. I love it. It's a beautiful place. This has been a great weekend for us. I just I love the people. I love the passion. I love what it means. I think that's the whole reason I got into it in the first place and that's what makes me

so drawn to it. It's why I love, I walked from the hotel to the match the other day just because I want to be amongst the people. Brady's not not gonna get this investing in the Raiders is he? He's got Birmingham, he's got the Raiders, he's got a lot going on, he's got a lot going on. But it looks like he's on his way up to the championship. I hope to not see him next year. And if you go up to the Premier League, does baby number two get called Parker? I don't think we're going that far. You're right, I don't think it goes quite that far, but I like where he rides at.

Absolutely, a joy to meet you. You as well, I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Cheers. What does it take to go racing in the fastest cars in the world? Oscar Piastri. Your head's trying to get rid of one way, your body's trying to go another. Lance Stroll. It's very extreme in the sense of how close you're racing wheel to wheel. We've been given unprecedented access to two of the most famous names in Formula One,

McLaren and Aston Martin. I'm Landon Aris, racing driver for McLaren Formula One team. They opened the doors to their factories as the 2024 season reached its peak. They work to build a beautiful bit of machinery that I get to then go and have fun in. I'm Josh Hartnett. This is F1 Back at Base. Listen on BBC Sounds.