Football Daily - MNC: Arsenal one step closer & Guardiola to step down

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

Mark Chapman is joined by Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Andros Townsend on this week's Monday Night Club.The team start at the Emirates with John Murray and Rob Green, as Arsenal beat Burnley 1-0 to take a step closer to the Premier League title. Hear from Mikel Arteta on whether he will be watching Man City's trip to Bournemouth on Tuesday and whether goalscorer Kai Havertz was lucky not to be sent off.Meanwhile, reports that Pep Guardiola is set to step down from Manchester City after the final game of the season gather pace. BBC Senior Football Correspondent Sami Mokbel brings the latest.There is reaction to Celtic's dramatic final-day showdown to win the Scottish Premiership - would it have been better for Scottish football is Hearts had won?Plus, should Arne Slot drop Mo Salah for the final game of the season after the strikers' comments and Hull City assistant manager Dean Holden is live ahead of their Championship Play-Off Final. But who does he expect to be facing?Timecodes: 00'29 Full time at Arsenal v Burnley 04'14 Mikel Arteta reflects on their win 06'24 Sami Mokbel on reports that Pep Guardiola is set to step down at Man City 11'14 Celtic win the Scottish Premiership - was that the best thing for the game? 32'00 What should Arne Slot do after Mo Salah's comments? 48'12 Dean Holden live

This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily podcast. Hello, welcome to the Monday night club. Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Andros Townsender. Here we'll talk Celtics' dramatic title win. The championship playoffs, Mo Salas comments and emerging reports that Pep Guardiola is set to leave Manchester City after Sunday's game with Aston Villa.

But first, Arsenal have taken one step closer to the Premier League title. They've beaten Burnley, John Murray. And that is it. And Arsenal's players. they don't know what to do with themselves this has been so nervy in the last 10 minutes or so there are no overt scenes

of celebration from the Arsenal players at all in fact I noticed there in Capier dropped down onto his knees in relief that's what the feeling is here relief but it's a win it's another 1-0 to the Arsenal

against already relegated Burnley and that is even though it has been an almighty struggle really at times tonight against a very spirited Burnley performance. That is the first of the two wins they need this week to win the Premier League title. Defensively sound, another step closer, played well in the first half, Arsenal, saw the job through in the second, but not in the manner you're thinking they would have liked. And it was rather subdued celebrations at the end compared to the party atmosphere before the game. thinking they were turning up for this celebration and just a ceremonial win really

and it didn't transpire like that at all. Burnley played their part without having any real chances or any real quality in and around the goal area. It was tight, it was touchy in the second half, but they are one step closer. Yep, maybe fortunate not to have Havert sent off. And actually there's a pre-prepared banner that, been unveiled on the far side of the ground that reads Mikhail Knows, a little like the old Arsen knows banner. As I say, it was pre-prepared, probably pre-prepared with the thought that Arsenal would win

2, 3, 4-0, something like that. However, it's been unveiled in any case. And now we know that Arsenal are five points clear with themselves one match to play and now the pressure shifts back on top. Manchester City if they would have dropped points tomorrow at Bournemouth, Arsenal would be champions with a match to spare. Otherwise, it will go to Selhurst Park on Saturday afternoon, but they will know one more win will do it and that 22 year wait will be over for the Premier League title for Arsenal. And at this stage of the season, Chris Sutton, performance, whatever,

it doesn't matter, does it? They've got the three points. Absolutely, and you know clearly nervy this evening, but just get the job done. And I mean, they can sit and enjoy the game tomorrow night watching, watching Bournemouth, Manchester City, but they're nearly there, aren't they? The pressure's on City. That is not an easy fixture away at Bournemouth. So, yeah, I think all the Arsenal players and Michael Artecetta will be delighted. I think that's absolutely right, but at the same time, City, obviously, playing for PEPT's legacy,

after what appears to be his departure tonight. And the other thing is, if City do win, given how stressful a home game we know as Burnley was, I mean, Selhurst Park is going to be torture for Arsenal fans. And the Palace fans will be up for that, but the nature of the side selected would be quite interesting, Andros. Yeah, I don't think you can. I know Glasnos said he's going to pick a strong side,

but a strong side is not going to be the 11. playing on Wednesday. You might have probably three or four who you can then bring off at 45 or 60 minutes but there's no way that there's going to be a full strength side out there on Sunday. Let's hear from Mikhail Artetta with Jonathan Pierce. That was hard work, wasn't it?

You got over the line in the end. Yes, really happy with the performance, with the results. I think the first time we played some of the best football that we've played this season. The margin should have been bigger. We haven't achieved that. and I think we have to show over it on all season as well that when we need to defend and get through the game

we can do it in a really efficient way. Some of the movement, Kai Havats in the first half, dropping into space, picking up space was superb. It was really good. A certain connection. I'm lucky that we didn't score the second or the third goal to make it in well. But yeah, we face a top opponent,

look at the spirit that they had still today to try to get something out of the game. And yeah, this league is sort of. tough. The lead is now five points. Manchester City have to win both of their games to stop you. How do you feel, though? I'm very happy tonight. We've done our job, what is in our hands, and we have to wait and see what happens tomorrow and Nesartu prepared for the Palace game. Because you're wise enough to realize English football, all football, but English football in particular can kick you in the backside, can't it?

Very quickly. And you have to see just the spirit that Burnley showed today as well and how to they made this for us. And also how much is a compliment to the English Premier League that Burnley already relegated came here and performed like that? Yes, a big one and they did last week against Aston Villa and we know that's going to be

the case so we need to maintain the highest standards the way we've been competing all season and we need to win one more game. Did you worry the Havats Challenge when he went in and in the Common Show I thought it was a foul, maybe a yellow but then when they started to VAR it you start

think again. Yes, well, I haven't had a look at the challenge again, but for what they said it wasn't, but I don't know, I haven't seen it. And now how do you go through the... Will you watch tomorrow, by the way? Have we watched tomorrow. I will enjoy it tonight, and tomorrow we start to prepare palace, and we will watch it for sure. Nearly there?

One more to go. So reports have emerged that Pep Guardiola is set to leave Manchester City after Sunday's game with Aston Villa. It started with a report from the mail's Oliver Holt. Let's bring in BBC Senior Football correspondent, Sammy Mockbell. City aren't commenting at the moment. No, they're not commenting. Their indications are that he still has a 12-month contract left.

So he's got another year which expires in 2027 and they want him to stay. But my understanding is that the club are preparing for his exit after this game on Sunday against Saston Villa, which would be the last game of the season at the Etihad. potentially in front of a new stand which will should make for an amazing atmosphere at the stadium that adores Pep Guardiola and it would be

I think a very fitting way to go out if he's to go out I have to stress that Manchester City on confirming the external reports about Guadiole leaving and they're not confirming our information that we have that we expect him to leave.

So I can't sit here and tell you 100% that Sunday would be Guadiola's last game, but sitting here tonight, I'm pretty confident that that will be the case. And they've been planning for it for a while? Absolutely. I think they've been planning for it, to my knowledge,

since at least January. I think when they've been planning for it, When they went into the January, well, I don't think I know, when they went into the January window, I think some of their targets, I think they were pretty clear about your signing for Manchester City, but just to just be sure that you may not be signing for Pep Guardiola, because there is every chance that this could be his last season.

And if this isn't his last season, he won't renew beyond 2027. So I don't think this news comes as a massive surprise, but in many ways it's still probably the story of the season that this legendary manager is leaving the Premier League. And it will be, if he does go, it will be Enzo Moreska, will it? I mean, that sort of came from him, didn't it, in January, as we've already discussed.

The availability, say, of Andonia Aola doesn't alter their circumstances. succession planning? No, the course I understand that Manchester City are taking and have taken over the past few months and weeks is to discuss the move with Enzo Moreska. I think they see a synergy with Enzo Moreska. He's worked with Pep Guardiola. He's worked at Manchester City. He knows the club and all the information

I'm getting in every indication I've had certainly over the past three to four weeks. is that Enzo Mariska, should Pep Guardiola leave, as we expect him to, will be the next Manchester City head coach. Yes, Andros. Is it a case of Pep Guardiola just being completely sort of worn out? Or does Javi Lanzo at Chelsea or slot-winning the title at Liverpool? Arsenal is coming into the three. Now, Manchester United in proving, has the others sort of had a bearing on his decision that he may not have all his own way,

over the next few years. I think part of it is maybe his tenure at the club is coming to an end. I think we shouldn't forget that Chihih Biggererstein, the former sporting director, who he was incredibly close to, left at the end of last season. Hugo Biana is now the new sporting director. And I think once you lose one of your close allies, there is almost a temptation.

I think it's only natural to say, well, maybe my time's run its course. Maybe I'll also run off and walk off into the sunset. Look, I think City would love him to stay. I still think he'd be a fantastic manager for the next five to ten years, probably at Manchester City. But every expectation is now is that he's on his way out. Thank you very much. Sammy Mott Bellwethers on the Monday Night Club.

With the story circulating that Pep Grodial will leave Manchester City. after the final home game against Aston Villa on Sunday. This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily podcast. The title race in Scotland and Celtic winning it after a dramatic final afternoon on Saturday. Chris and Rory were both there. I think we should go to you Rory first as a neutral observer on how that afternoon panned out.

Certainly more neutral than Trist. Did you know that his voice booms out from Celtic Park before every game? Because I did not realize that. No. He is the official, he sort of introduces you

to Scottish football. He is the gatekeeper at Celtic Park. It's remarkable. Is he that sort of energetic pumped voice used at stadiums up and down the country to get people going

ahead of a game? Scottish football's had some lean times but it's never got quite that pat. Just you be careful, Mark, because I'll be coming for you with voiceovers. I'll be taking your place soon. Not. It was, I think it was the most tense I've ever been at a football match, just because of the

the states of it, the fact that it felt and was like a generational moment potentially. The fact that Hartz took it to the, what, the 88th minute before I think the Mider Dole was awarded. And even then, you know, the third goal comes from a hearts, a heart's free kick and I think most Celtic fans would tell you honestly they were probably a bit nervous at that stage when Hart's had a set piece in the 98th minute and then obviously all the kind of mayhem that unfolded afterwards but the whole afternoon I mean Celtic Park was deafening the celebrations at the end were as jubilant as you'd expect and the desolation of hearts having been topped for 226 days and then until the 88th minute of the last game

that's a kind of pain that I think will take a long, long time for the players and probably the fans to get over. Can you put yourself in a heart situation, Andros, and how they come back from this or how long it would take? I think it's very difficult. Unfortunately, I've never been in that situation fighting for titles, but when you do so well, like Rory said, 200 odd days at the top, 88 minutes, five minutes from winning your first title in 60-odd years,

and you let it slip. It's going to be a very, very tough summer. Even when they come back for preseason, they'll still be scars from the previous season. I can't see them getting over this anytime soon. Chris, how did you view the afternoon? Well, just like the whole season. Incredible.

And I mean, the way the game panned out, I mean, hearts were very comfortable in the first half and took the lead. Celtic hadn't really threatened. Then Celtic were awarded a penalty. I don't know your views on it, I thought it was a penalty. And Honor Engels tucks it in.

And then Celtic huffed and puffed and hearts got tired. And where I have massive sympathy for hearts is in recent times, they've lost key players. They lost Halkut and Leonard a couple of games back. And then Beningamee went off. And then Martin O'Neill made a substitution at half time. Ian Acho came on in that central striking role days and Mada went out to the left hand side.

and the game started to change with Ianacho. I mean, he's not mobile, but he's got a really excellent football brain and held a ball in well and linked up well, and Celtic looked more of a threat. And then, I mean, two more subs. Callum Osman coming on. I can't remember he's a young player who Celtic signed at the start of the season, barely played.

But he came on and he gave Celtic a real edge and pace up top. and Celtic looked a threat. And the other substitution, Kieran Tini came off and Sir Rachi came on at left back. And Kieran Tini's a sort of straight line players had a good season, but Sir Ratchi's maybe,

well, probably a better footballer and Celtic started to look a threat. And Ian Acho hit the post and then they had the, you know, the moment where Deizant Mider, who's only really hit form in the last month or so. And his form has been incredible in the last month. He gets on the end of a cross from Osmond.

and then there was the bedlam at the end. Chris, do you think for Scottish football it would have been better for hearts to win or do you think the fact that it went down to the last day of the season, first v second playing each other, does Scottish football enough of a boost in itself? Yeah, look, I understand that debate, but I'm also of the opinion.

Celtic are getting slaughtered and castigated for winning the league. At the end of the season, if you get more points than everybody else, you deserve it. I have massive sympathy for, for Derek McKinness and Hearts. I mean, I lost the league twice on the last day when I was a player. I know how the players felt.

And in many respects, I think Martin O'Neill said after the game, hearts have been the story of this season. And they have. And it's been brilliant. They're managed well by Derek McKinness. And, you know, just listening to you talk, I'm not so sure hearts are going away.

And I think Tony Bloom was there on Saturday. that may just have fired him up even more to have a real go and invest. And James Town, the analytics aren't going away. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see how they recover. But, yeah, they've been phenomenal this season. Chris, so when you lost it on the last day of the season, did you have a hangover going into the preseason into the start of the season,

or was it completely forgotten about? Not really a hangover. I mean, you only have one choice as a player. And the expectation at Celtic is to, you know, you go again. I mean, Martin O'Neill was my manager there over the whole piece. And, you know, he's a brilliant motivator. So we're always motivated, you know, to go again. So we didn't, yeah.

You know, we knew what we were capable of. I would take issue with one thing, Chris said. Just a minor thing. I don't think Celtic are being castigated for winning the league. I think people are... People hate it, Rory. I think people are disappointed that the romantic story that has... Funny, if I think Anders is right,

I think the benefit for Scottish football probably exists whether Hart's won it or not. I think the interest that you had on Saturday, which is really unusual, is because it was close. And to be honest, you can make a case that the scale of those celebrations at Celtic Park were in part

because Hearts have pushed them so far that if Celtic had won that title as they have done relatively recently six weeks ago by 12 points, I don't think anyone's going on the pitch at Celtic Park. You realise, Chris, actually, from the new point of view, it has got nothing to do with Celtic winning the title.

It's got to do with, if it had been hearts going with Rangers, the feeling would have been exactly the same towards hearts, as in just a new team from the last 40-odd years, actually winning it. And the circumstances that led up to Saturday. I think that is all fair, but I think from the Celtic side, Celtic have had their own journey this season, and it's been a very, the very, very bumpy journey

and, you know, their own story. So, you know, it's, I know people will mock me for saying that. From where they were at the start of the season, two disastrous transfer windows, the managers they've been through, the Brendan Rogers moment, you know, the Honda Civic line,

then getting, you know, then parting ways with the club, Dermott Desmond, absolutely, machine gunning Brendan Rogers when he went. Martin Anil coming in. Then the Wilfred Nancy disaster. Martin Anil coming back.

The performances weren't there. Injuries to key players. And, you know, at Dundee, after Dundee United, there were seven games to go. Martin Aneal, he didn't think they were Celtic, you know, were capable of winning the last seven. Let's bring Tino Callahan in from the Celtic Exchange podcast. Initino?

I'm Mark Caden. I'm very good. Very good, thank you. Very good. How do you put Celtics achievement into some kind of context with previous seasons title wins? I mean, the big question doing the rounds amongst fans, we've just finished our own recording, and the question is, is it your best ever,

is it your favourite ever title win? And I've spoken to a whole bundle of folk over the weekend since Saturday, including my dad, who's 75 years of age, who lived through the Lisbon lines and enjoyed all of that stuff and it's the best ever for him. We've got a young lad Connor on our show who's 21. It's the best for him. The various guys I spoke to tonight

and various guys I spoke to on Saturday night. And it's right up there and I think Rory makes a great point. Harts have played such a part in this and deserved huge credit for what they've done but ultimately they've seldom come good but had Harts not pushed us so much we've all experienced one in the title effectively in February and March and it's good

but it's not as good. Saturday was something really special. So your dad at 75, who's experienced all of Celtic's history in probably 70 years since he was old enough to enjoy it, this is the best for him. Yeah, so dad's born in 1950 in the shadow of Celtic Park. Been taken to game since he was a kid himself, you know, experienced the Lions in 67, jocksteen's nine in a row in 1974, everything Celtic done through the 80s, centenary year, Love Street, 86, everything. Saturday night was his favourite.

Goodness, goodness, mate. And is that partly because of the Martin O'Neill effect as well? I take the hearts and how much they pushed you, but for it to have been done by Martin O'Neill in the way that he has done it, is that the sort of cherry on the icing on the cake? I mean, he's such a popular and much-loved figure, and Chris will back up as much as anybody.

And for Martin Eel to come back, and it wasn't just a case of Stead on the Shipper, at least that's not how Martin Neal will have looked at it. He's not a guy that steady ships. He's a guy that just has this in-built winning nature. And he used the words, you know, several times in his own interviews. I'm here to win. Not necessarily play pretty football, and it wasn't pretty at times,

but the man is an out-and-out winner. And for him to come back at 73 and now, 74 years of age, and do what he'd done, it was just unthinkable at a certain time in our season. So to get over the line, I think we're always pleased for, you know, the various players, Carla McGregor and his teammates and ourselves, but so, so happy

for Martin Anil to get what looks like the perfect send-off at Celtic. That's going to be my question, Tino, you just touched on it. Amunds yourself and the Celtic fan base,

is it, thank you so much, Martin Anil, you legend, you saved us, now let's get someone else, or is it, oh, maybe let's give him

a go next season and see if he can reproduce what he's done this season. Yeah, I think sometimes in football and definitely not always, you do get a chance to have that, just that perfect ending, that perfect part of the ways.

And on a playing sense, it might be the perfect time, for example, for Dyes Maida to seek his fortune elsewhere. But from Martin Niels' point of view, to have won this league and very possibly follow up with the Scottish Cup at the weekend, it just seems written perfectly for having to walk off. And I say that, I think he's got something to offer behind the scenes at Celtic, and I do think he's been doing some work with regard to recruitment for next year. I just think he can't let a guy with that knowledge and that talent

and just that football and expertise to leave the building. But I'm not sure if he should be there in a managerial capacity. And I'm not sure if he himself truly wants or has the energy for it. Maybe he himself will feel this as a right time. Tina, would that worry you, the fact that, you know, as Chris says, O'Neill's come back twice this season to sort of save Celtic from themselves? Do you trust the board to get the next appointment right? I presume it sounds like you might think that maybe O'Neill should have a bit of a role in

helping make that decision. But the last one was, you know, not, wouldn't fill you with confidence that, you know, giving the people who appointed Wilfred Nancy a chance to go again. How would you kind of play that? Yes, it's a massive question, Rory, with regard to what trust the fan base do have on the board that's been so fractured this season. And I'm sure you guys know as well as I do about the off-field issues.

And they got the Wilfred Nancy one so, so wrong. And everything else aside in terms of, Wilfred Nancy and what he might be as a manager. It was the timing of it. They got the timing so wrong. I think my feeling is that the club were heavily swayed by Paul Tisdale, who was for a time there, head of football operations. And I think he's giving them the wrong advice, and they've taken that.

And that, I mean, it was a, I was going to say a near disaster. It was a disaster, but Martin Neill has saved us from that disaster. But yeah, you're right, you know, with the same people, kind of, that make the call next year. But actually, I think the situation at Celtic is that it's Dermond that makes the call. and I don't know how that plays does he just make the call again for this time around or does Michael Nicholson and his board

saying no no this is our call that is the big question itself so is the anger still there because at times it has been a very angry place this season yeah I mean I would probably say it's bubbling under the surface you know it is still there to a huge extent

I was walking out of Celtic Park on Saturday we were all high as a kite what a day what a special day and a guy chinned me on the stairs and says, don't forget, keep the pressure up on this board. You know, that was still the feeling for some. But I think nothing will take the edge off or take the heat out than a title one.

And to do it in the manner we've done, you know, it shouldn't excuse the club, but absolutely not for the mistakes, and there have been many mistakes. But Martin O'Neill has played the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card for the board now. And the hope, and maybe it's kind of hopelessly optimistic from my point of view,

but the hope is that they take this opportunity that Martin Neal has given them. and that they finally get it right this summer, particularly with regard to the recruitment. There was a quote on BBC Scotland on Sports Sound last week, Alan Preston said this might be the worst hearts team that you will see in the next 10 years. Would you like hearts to get stronger? Because one of the reasons why Satay was so special for you all is because you were pushed to the wire.

And for so many titles, for so many seasons, you haven't been, you haven't been pushed that often. And actually, you kind of want the competition, don't you? Because that's what gets the juices flowing. Yeah, 100%. I think it's Brendan Rogers quote. I think he uses it specifically for players, but competition is often the best coach.

There's an old cliched example now that James Forrest really stepped up his game when Paddy Roberts came in on loan. Celtic James was maybe coasting a wee bit, expected to start every game. And Roberts came in and really pushed him for a spot. So that competition, and a playing sense absolutely elevates you. And I think in terms of the bigger picture,

what Hart's have done is, you know, and Rory's right to pick out, as I say. It's been so healthy for Scottish football. They've been a breath of fresh air, and for it to go down to the wire, tells its own story. And I really hope Hart's come back, and I hope other teams come back.

Mother will have been great under Gainsbert Alasku. Falkirk have played some great football at times. Rangers may get the rack together, who knows. So I think that can only be a good thing. Do you really hope they come back? Hope is such a strong word. isn't it, but we'll see what they do. Did you think it was a penalty at Motherwell, by the way?

Yes. You can't put your hand up here and expect to get away with it. Really? Really. Okay. And I'll just echo where Martin O'Neill is at, is that with it? Because in the modern game, if you jump in the box and your hands are anywhere above your shoulders, you're running the risk. And I think that's exactly what played out.

It is extremely unfortunate. And, yeah, to be really honest, I would be screaming, you know, for the disson. not to be made where I have motherable persuasion but it's always a risk and yeah ultimately it's cost motherball on the night so why wasn't it a penalty?

I think it was a penalty I'm not asking you to I don't think it was conclusive by any means I think he looked at the VA the way they run the VAR hang on a minute so the bottom line is it was a handball

the position of the arm where the position of the arm where it was, it hit his hand. And that's been, you know, and people are saying, well, it couldn't have hit his hand because the ball travelled 30 yards. I mean, who are these people? Are they scientists? Yes, they are. They are.

They are not. But they're, but so, so all the, all the anger there was, and I understand the anger there was on, on Wednesday night. I absolutely understand it because of what it meant. You couldn't tell it was a penalty on Wednesday night. What it meant for hearts? No, no. But as soon as, as soon as John Beaton.

couldn't. Went to, just hang on. No, Andrew Dallas, who was in the, he was doing the var. He sent John Beaton to the monitor. John Beaton made the decision within 15, 20 seconds. He made a quick decision, okay? It was a handball. People who are saying it's not a handball.

You can argue about whether his arm was pushed up or whatever, but it was a handball. So, you know, that's it. That is a good point, Chris. And I think the same logic applies to the penalty. apply to the penalty that Hart should definitely have had at Motherwell three days earlier, which was not given because he made too much of it. Was there sufficient contact? Well, these are subjective calls.

No, it's not. It's not a subjective call. There is nothing to do. It's absolutely a subjective call. You cannot sit there and say, it's not a subjective call because with that one, Stephen McLean, the referee, he didn't give a penalty. He was then advised to go to the monitor and everybody thinks when they go to the monitor, they're going to overturn it.

and he didn't. He didn't think it was sufficient contact. Hence why Derek McKinness came out, said it was a disgusting decision. And, you know, there's, no, that was the Ian Achia one. But he was very unhappy about that decision as well. And I can understand that from Hart's, you know,

side because of course they're going to be frustrated because they're going for a title and they've been brilliant all season. More importantly, Tino, do you think that the fact that, I think inside Celtic, there will be an expectation that Hart's will build again. I'm not sure at the same. psychology of it works quite that easily.

Like there'll be a lot of, like Andross says, there'll be a lot of shattered players in that squad. Do you think that forces Celtic to change that they work, the way that they work? Martin O'Neill said on Saturday it's a wake-up call for both Celtic and Rangers. Don't know what your view is on where the Rangers might heed it, but do you think Celtic can? They have to. And I think Tony Bloom has proven, you know, successful at Brighton and USG in Belgium.

And, you know, sometimes those approaches, whether it's a moneyball approach or whatever term you want to use, it can take. time and I think he and Hartz will have been delighted at the season they've had and it's a sore one right now but I think when they take a step back and reflect it's been phenomenal I think hearts of of scored their highest ever points tally in the league for example and he would expect that trajectory to keep going you know upwards and to the right moving forward so Celtic do need to respond and ironically I think when a point in Wilfrid nancy Celtic were moving towards maybe a more data-driven type approach and just because that one didn't work out out and then work out spectacularly. You shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater and just ditch that kind of approach to how you do things moving forward.

So we don't have access to James Town Analytics but there are other similar softwares and packages and things like that out there. Celtic need to get down that road because if you stand still you're going backwards as they say and we need to be careful not to be fooled by this Title I. This Title I has been amazing but there's work to be done.

Tina, thank you very much for coming on. Appreciate it. Tina Callahan from the Celtic Exchange podcast. Five-Live Sports. So here's the first ball of this series. All the cricket you laugh. Check, Relby W. Ouch.

Lives on BBC Sounds. Smash straight back down the ground. This girl. Here ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits. It's a ball cricket and it's the huge one. Yes. T-Dose.

Settle down. Sorry, me. Cricket on Five Live in Sport. Oh, blibing every ball of this. Listen on BBC. This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman On the Football Daily podcast How much do you think, Chris,

Alonzo's appointment is going to hang over Liverpool? Oh, yeah, I mean, that's an interesting one, isn't it? I mean, a lot of the Liverpool fans, as far as I can see now, just are not having on a slot. But, I mean, Rory, did you not say a couple of weeks ago? You don't think that slot is going to, or slot is going to start next season as manager as far as you understood it. But with every sort of passing game, every passing week, every sort of unsure performance, every defeat,

I think Liverpool fans are thinking, blimey, you know, are we doing the wrong thing by keeping them on? And then you see the Mo Salas stuff. I mean, I mean, Mo Salas like poured petrol on the flames, doesn't he really? on a difficult situation for slot. And he knows exactly what he wants to do by doing that. You know, clearly it's a personal thing between the two of them. And that really hasn't helped the situation.

And, you know, it's made it worse. But, you know, and Alonso with his Liverpool connections, yeah, I mean, he would have been maybe, you know, an obvious choice. So, but, you know, Chelsea have got them. And Liverpool seemed like they're in a bit of a pickle now. But, Chris, do you not think Liverpool would have sounded out? Jabby Alonzo before he went to Chelsea.

Do you think they would have done? I think for sure they would have done. I don't think you can let a generational manager like Jabbi Alonzo come on the market and then get snapped up when you're still not sure about your own manager. I think for sure they would have happened. How do you know that they're not sure about their own manager? I don't think they approached Alonzo.

No? In the last few weeks. They talked to him. in 2024 when clock was leaving and the message was that he wanted to do another year at Lavercuse and Sam Wallace in the Telegraph had a story yesterday or maybe Saturday that

that FSG, the owners of Liverpool, kind of remembered that that Alonso said no to Liverpool then waited a year for Real Madrid and that that maybe factored into their thinking. I think Liverpool think slot is a better bet than Alonso that's not to say they think that slot is a better bet

than anybody else. I'm I go backwards and forwards and pause on that a little bit. I think Slot is a better bet than Alonso, partly because of kind of the way that they feel that they're, whether there's a tactical thing or a data thing, I don't know, but I think part of it is probably that Alonso would go in with a power base at Liverpool as a beloved former player, and I'm not sure, I think there's maybe a little bit of worry that that might affect the model, because it might give the manager a bit too much power in a system that's not meant to have it. I think, yeah, everything Liverpool is saying,

is that they believe slot is the right man for next season. I think that is in total defiance of everything I know about football, which admittedly is not very much. We've established that, but it just seems very, like I don't see how it can work from the position it is, but that is the official line from Liverpool. It is possible that that will change,

just football does change, but if they don't enter next season with slot, it would be a genuinely fascinating thing to see. Why do you think that, Rory? Why would it be fascinating? He won the league 12 months, ago. They've had their injury problems. They've had their turnover of players. I think Klop had a similar season after he won the league. Why would it be strange to see him continue?

Yeah, Klop had a similar season after he won the lead. That is absolutely true. But he had already won the league in the Champions League. And also, they literally ran out of centre halves. There was a point where Jordan Henderson and Fabina were playing the centreback. It was really obvious what the problems were. I think you're right. It feels mad that Slot should have won the lead a year ago and there should be this kind of overwhelming sensation among the fans that he shouldn't be the right he isn't you know he doesn't get a chance to kind of it doesn't like to get a best of three chance do you know what I mean but I think watching them this season they've they've had the same weaknesses throughout they haven't solved any of the problems they they seem so open

there seems to be an issue as chap has alluded to in terms of Sala that suggests to me an issue within the dressing room I think the fans have lost faith in him and I don't see how that comes back. And the big thing is that even though, you know, the fifth, which is in many ways remarkable, but I'm not sure they've played well in the Premier League once this season.

They've played well a couple of times in the Champions League. They were good against World and against Australia and against Marseille. I can't remember a game, even a game they've won in the Premier League, where you come off and think Liverpool played well there for 90 minutes. I'm not sure the noise... I mean, I would need Rory to tell us more here. But I'm not sure, Andros, the noise around

Klop season after they'd won the league and then fell away a bit, was anything like the noise and the murmurings that are around now? I mean, when Mo Salah puts that message on social media, us crumbling to yet another defeat this season was very painful and not what our fans deserve. I want to see Liverpool go back to being the heavy metal attacking team that opponents fear. That is the identity that needs to be recovered and kept for good.

It cannot be negotiable, and everyone that joins this club should adapt to it. Winning some games here and there is not what Liverpool should be about. All teams win games. I want to see it succeed for long after I have moved on. Now, I'm sure there are a lot of Liverpool fans who would be exactly on the same side as most Salah, but he has absolutely eviscerated his manager there, hasn't he? Yeah, I think again

it's Mo Salah using his power, using his knowledge of what the fans want to sort of throw the manager under the bus. I think the sort of Mick Zone interview he did earlier on in the season, you could say okay, he at the moment

didn't get on, not happy, he let his frustration show, but this is premeditated. There's no reason for this. I don't think there's for me, the fans backing because they don't like the manager, but for me, it's disgraceful. How can you say this about your manager who won the league with you 12 months ago

and you do this to throw him under the bus like that? And that's probably the second or third dig he's made in a short space of a couple of months as well. He made the comment about the standards in the gym and what have you and slot bit back. But yeah, for me, this one, because it's premeditated, I don't like it at all. Gary Neville then said about Mo Salo, Chris,

he's pulled the pin out of a. grenade and thrown it into the middle of the room. If that was a Manchester United player, I'd be fuming. Yeah, it's a bit of a snaky thing to do, isn't it? From Mo Sal. He knows the damage that's going to do to slot. He knows, you know, slot isn't popular with a large section of the Liverpool fan base, and he wants to destroy him.

I mean, there's, you know, why else would he have done that? And, you know, it's going to be interesting to see what happens at the weekend. What would you do? With your managerial experience, what would you do? Well, I had players who were match fixes. They're far worse than what Arna Slots going through. But what would I do? I wouldn't.

I'd put them on the bench and I wouldn't put it, or maybe put him on for the last half a minute. Okay. I mean, the point, I suppose, Andros, is he drops him for undermining him and the fans will be on his back because they're, don't get the opportunity to say bye. And Wayne really said he wouldn't have him anywhere near the stadium for the last game.

Or he does include him and I don't know does he look weak by doing that? What do you do? I don't think you can include him. I don't care what the fans are going to say. They're going to disagree with you anyway. They want you out or anyway. We can't have a player

undermined you like that because then next season when Salah's not there all the other players are going to remember it and they're going to start undermining him as well. I think you have to nip it in the bud. You have to say, listen, I know you want your farewell, but you haven't been professional on and off the pitch. I'm not going to play you.

I think that's the only choice. Andrews, will that tarnish Salas' legacy at Liverpool that at all? Or will it not? Because most of the fans are on his side. He knows that as well. Yeah, I think that's a relevant factor. I think the more important thing is that most Salah's legacy, as with all great players, will be defined not.

by not by kind of the way he leaves or the controversies, but by all the things that he achieved. I'm not sure that when Man United fans think of Wayne Rooney, they think of the bit where he tried to leave and thought about joining Man City. Like that's not something people remember about Rooney at Man United because that's not what's important. I don't think this will be, I don't think in 10 years' time,

people think, oh, most sadness is shamey, shamey really threw the manager under the bus at the end. I think they'll probably remember the trophies in one of the goals he scored. What I'm interested by is, as much as any of the, thing is whether you two think he will have done that with the tacit blessing of his teammates. Salah's leaving. Salah is free to do whatever he likes to an extent.

I think Slot has handled that situation quite, it's one of the few areas this season which Slot's come out with quite a lot of credit. I think he handled the original thing at Leeds quite well and kind of just reintegrated Sala over time to the point where people stopped talking about it. There's clearly an issue between them, but it's never. but he's never seemed to allow that to get personal in terms of his selection. So I think he will play on Sunday, Sala. Might be from the bench, he's not fully fit,

so that slots ready made excuse. But to me, the fact that Salas's putting that out, and as ridiculous as it is to use this sentence, other players are liking it on Instagram. That does suggest to me that he's maybe taking one for the team. Which other players liked it then on Instagram? I don't have a full list. I think Sober's lie, Endo,

Curtis Jones, a couple of other, Frimpon, maybe, a couple of others. I mean, that's incredible. I didn't know that. I mean, that's incredible, really. I mean, how much can you read into that?

But why would you do that if you're a player? Why would you get involved in stuff like that? But that's not, that really isn't a good look for slot, is it? I mean, I think sometimes, you obviously, you've got the cynic hat on Rory,

but I think sometimes when you're on, these social media platforms. It is scroll. Okay, my friend's posting like. I'm not even going to look at that or scroll. Scroll, like. I'm not going to watch that video. So then I...

Anders, I saw you making your own Easter eggs a few weeks ago. And I actively liked that post as I enjoyed it. It was real content, but I didn't actually press the button. What? Make your own chocolate. Chappas, it's the best thing I've seen

on the internet for you. Oh, that's nothing, yeah. So you make your own chocolate? Oh, yeah, 100%. In the UK, Cocoa, Coco is 20% in chocolate and some of it now is made in a lab, whereas mine is 50%. Right, okay.

Are you taking, is this a dragon's then? Say that again. Say that again. Now in the UK, chocolate, in some chocolate in the stores, it's fallen to 20% cocoa in the chocolate, and the rest is obviously sugar and preservatives and what have you. And when I make it at home, it's over 50% cocoa. And then do you have... But what's nicer?

My one's nicer, because my one hasn't got the non-sterns. this ingredients. My one's got real, real ingredients. And do you have like an egg mould? Yes, you have like a half egg mould. So you put two half egg moulds and then once they set, you get a bit of melted chocolate and put it round the edge of one

and then stick it together. It was so satisfying watching it. Do you make little chocolates to go into the egg? No, I haven't got that. I haven't got that advanced yet, maybe next year. It's the kind of thing that might bring me back to Instagram this, Andrews, I have to

six. years away or whatever it is. I'll send it to you. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. But no, Andrews is right. I think you shouldn't read too much into the Who liked what. Not only does it make to sound less serious. Of course you should.

But I think people like stuff automatically without thinking. That's not a good look for the players who have liked. Anna slot is going to think they're traitors. Put yourself in his shoes. What would you think? But that's the issue, Chris. that there seems to be a break between the players and the manager.

There's a break between the manager and the fans. And the other thing that I think is really important is that... So, FSG have kind of handed over control of their football operations to Michael Edwards, who deserves a lot of credit for Liverpool being where they are or where they've been over the last 10 years. But he came back because he wanted to kind of run a multi-club model for Liverpool, which is not something I like. I don't approve of that.

I think it's bad for football. But that was his thing that he wanted, and FSC said they'd do it. They've now said they're not going to do it. So I don't really understand what Michael Edwards is there for. Richard Hughes is the sporting director who has data data data control of Liverpool, but his contract expires next summer as well. Slots contract expires next summer.

I don't know who's, like who is looking after the long-term thing here. The whole thing looks an awful lot like FSG, the owners, have kind of taken their eye off the ball a little bit, and things are, to use Mo Salas word, crumbling. Is it just a final thing here? And I don't have a lot of sympathy for people that run football clubs, I suppose, because what an amazing privilege it is. But they probably are, Andros, caught slightly between maybe feeling that they should do the right thing

by someone who won them a title 12 months ago. But at the same time, sometimes you have to make that. hard decision and read the room, don't you? And there is an element, and I know there have been articles recently about comparing slot to Ten Haag, but the situation, I think, is similar. In the United, a few years ago, felt they were doing the right thing by persevering with Ten Haag. I missed out on Tuchel, Pochitino, Deserbie, whoever else was around at the time.

And it came back to bite them. But Ten Haag didn't win a Premier League title in his first year, so I think it's completely different. I would say, I half agree with what you're saying. I think for me, Slot should, he's the man, he won you the Premier League. He deserves a chance to go into next season, hopefully have all his players fit, get rid of the bad eggs and see if they can build again.

But for me, a generational manager who is an ex-player of your club, Jabby Lonzo, is on the market, is going to your rivals. and I'm amazed you haven't at least tried to because sometimes you have to get rid of a manager because there is a better manager who might not be there again. So that's my only thing. I don't think he should be sacked. I think he deserves next season.

But the fact that Jabby Lonzo was there, I think they probably should have at least looked into it more than they did. And now what will happen is the run on managers, those clubs looking for managers and the run on managers increases. Yeah. So, you know, if, I mean, as I say, it's a really precarious position Liverpool are in now because, you know, it's all right saying, well, and I do agree that they should give slot another season, but once the fans turn on you, as they have turned on slot in their numbers and Salas putting the boot in as well, I mean, a slow start to next season and they'll make a change. and then everybody will say, well, why didn't you do it, do it, you know, when it was, when you could have done over the summer.

So you're absolutely right. Let's bring in the whole city assistant manager, Dean Holden. We're going to talk about the championship player final. How are you doing, Chapman? Oh, yeah, good, thank you. Is this, you're on to talk about the championship player final, which, as things stand, is you against Southampton, and the EFL inquiry starts tomorrow into Southampton

and the spying charges that Middlesbrough have leveled, against them. What are you preparing for at the moment? Great question. I've been asked a lot in the last week. We're preparing to play Southampton on Saturday, Wembley 430 kickoff. That's what we've been told by the EFL. If anything changes in the next couple of days, then we'll have to adapt to that. But you can sometimes get a little bit too clever and people are saying you're preparing for two games and two teams. I think the key thing for us as a staff, when we deliver to the players this week, we've got to make sure it's as concise as can be. There's obviously going to be a lot of

emotion, a lot of nervous energy going to such a big occasion. And for us, it's making sure that the players go out there and they're not overthinking in terms of the messages they've had throughout the week. So for us, we're preparing fully on Southampton. I think I read one quote yesterday as well, which is, if it was

to change, then you would be used to that anyhow, given how quickly games come in the championship. You know, if you're playing Saturday and then moving on to a Tuesday game, you don't have long for those opponents, do you really? So it's something that you would, if anything was to change, there are no indications that it would at this stage.

You would take in your stride? Yeah, listen, I think what we have done well this season is we've adapted, we've adapted to teams that we're playing against. We've adapted to having suffering a lot of injuries, unfortunately, and we found ways to win throughout the season. And you're right, normally in the championship, the reason it's so unique is that you get so many Saturday, Tuesday, quick turnaround.

So for us, if it comes to that, we will deal with it. We're not going to be people inside the club, We'll be speaking with the NFL, of course, at a much high level than me. He'll be trying to find quick answers. But for us as a staff and the players, I just repeat what I've just said there, we can't afford to take our eyes off it and start trying to overcomplicate this situation. So obviously, Dean, you said that yourself and the coaching staff are preparing for one team and one team only that you're preparing for Southampton.

But are there people behind the scenes like your analysts who are just having one eye on Middlesbrough preparing stuff for Middlesbrough just in case things switch? at the last minute. Just before that, Andross, I'd say you're looking great. How's your seven-day water fast going? It's very good. It's very good. I'm really enjoying it.

Loads of energy. Good stuff. Listen, I think for us, we've obviously approached it. It's such a unique situation. We've approached the end of a tough season, and we've obviously played everyone twice. We've had two great results against Southampton. First one was against Will Stil at home early in the season.

Second one, we went down there and Tonda was in charge, and they played a back five on the day. day. So Middlesbury, we've beat them and they've beat us. So I think we've got a dossier on every club we've played against. Of course, we have obviously watched both semifinals in depth. So we've got a good understanding of all the teams, but the full focus is and will remain on Southampton because, again, with the, you'll know yourself with the analyst, it's one of the toughest jobs in football. The amount of work they have to get through, the amount of games that they have to clip up. And you've always got players in their office saying, can you show me some

clips on such and such a player or obviously you've got all the set pieces to clip up. Throwings nowadays have become really important. So there's so many elements to it. If we're asking our analyst team, which is really small, I have to say, to start preparing for two teams, it's going to cause a few problems. Dean, is it difficult to kind of keep the players' mind on it? Just presumably, I mean, this is a weird circumstance to be in where the playoff final, the biggest game in the EFL might not happen.

Have you had to do anything with the players or is it easy to kind of instruct them You just have to act like it is going to happen. It can only go off, Rory, what you see front of your eyes. And great atmosphere, people will say, well, that's normal. You're going to a playoff final. But it doesn't seem any anxiety at the moment. Yes, it's early in the week still. You can't get away from the noise.

It's everywhere that you turn, and the players are exactly the same. But the Gaff has been great in terms of his messaging. He's not at a meeting every day. We're getting that many messages coming through from different people who want to show us and the staff that they know key information. and if you relied on that or listened to that and started passing that on to the players, you'd be having a meeting two, three times a day.

So we had a big meeting on Friday morning where the Gaffa went through everything that we knew at that point. And throughout the weekend, there's no more news. So we've trained as normal today. It was an excellent session. And tomorrow's going to be maybe a little bit different with this hearing in the background, but it certainly won't affect our planning and our training

until we get a final result. As this season surprised you? I'd be a fool if I was going to sit here, chap, and say I expected us to be in the player final in the four days after joining the club last summer because we went into an embargo and nobody's seen it coming. Nobody inside the club seen it coming

and at that point it was, we had to readjust our obviously recruitment in terms of the way the club was looking to do it. And hats off, by the way, to the recruitment team. Jared, the sporting director Hodgy. Chris, you'll remember Martin Hodg, the old goalkeeper, Chef Wednesday. We've got a really strong recruitment team

obviously led by the Gaffer as well and Ajan and the board. but what we did at that point, we just went for ready-made players who've been there, done it, you've got experience, and that's going to be key, obviously, going into the game at the weekend. You know, Dean, I think so much has been made of this situation.

I mean, the players don't really care who they play, right? I mean, the players aren't going to be bothered, whether it's Borough or Southampton. Am I right with that? I think it's making sure that we perform to our best on the day. It doesn't matter. You're right. It doesn't really matter.

Obviously, tactically, there'll be a couple of different tweets going into the game, of course they will. I don't know what you were like as a player, Chris, but for me, playing at a completely different level. I didn't want loads of information on the opposition, and I know data and analysis now is a huge part of the game, and rightly so. But you've got to get a sniff and a feel for each individual player,

so certain players need a lot more than others. So Ollie McBurney, for instance, doesn't need to be told every single bit about his opposition centrebacks, how tall they are, how quickly are. He reads the game really well, and he knows most of his opposition. So there will be some tweaks if it ever came to that. But no, for us, it's just making sure that we go out there

and perform to our best on the day. So is that a thing with, you know, when you do team meetings or plans, do you take into account what different players respond to? Do you do things more individually? Or how do you balance that sort of some who will want the information and others who are like, seriously, I know what I'm doing, just let me go and play?

Yeah, I think most people, players now having come through the academy system are used to it. There's obviously a lot of time that goes in. You're normally watching hours and hours of footage and bringing it down to anything from 10 to 20 minutes depending if it's a free game week. We try and keep it as light as we can but give us much clarity. So at that point, of course, there's a lot of individual type stuff going on. But for me as well, I always think back, I work for Dean Smith at Woll saw in my first job.

And he was a brilliant guy in terms of taking meetings and getting a feel for the room. and one of our players just, I will never name him, just couldn't take in, he couldn't sit and watch a screen and watch the opposition and listen to somebody telling him at the same time. He found it really difficult. He needed to be on the grass in his position.

He was a left winger, I'll give you, that's all I'm giving you. And talking him through in terms of where he lives on the pitch and talking through scenarios like that. So again, without trying to reinvent the wheel, it's just getting an understanding of how each individual's picking up the information because it's all right taking a meeting and then sitting in the office on a Friday afternoon with a cup of team going great, we've took a meeting tick.

It's how well did the players receive that? So we do a lot of Q&A, a lot of two-day meetings where I'll take the opposition meeting and the next day we'll go in there and ask the players for some feedback on exactly what it was that they were given. So that's the only way if you know the listing or not and taking it in. And just before we let you go, forget who the opposition might be. I mean, if it was delayed or anything and there were changes made and it might not have to be at Wembley, that would change things, wouldn't it?

If you didn't get the playoff final at Wembley, or does that not change it either for you? To be honest, chappers at the moment, I think that's very far-fetched. You know, obviously, you know, we're in the middle of this, but we're not allowing it to take our focus. I feel a little bit for the fans,

I'll be honest because there's people buying tickets and booking hotels, and I can tell you from my own experience in the last 48 hours, how expensive it is to get an hotel in around Wembley at the weekend with three playoff games going on, and not many doing refunds and stuff like that. A lot of travel and all that.

So the fans are always the last to be looked after normally. So for us, we'll focus on the game. We'll go there. We'll hopefully do the job on the day. And we can go and enjoy it with the supports that can't get in the stadium with something maybe planned next week up in Hulligan. So it's been a magnificent season

and we just hope that we can finish it off in the right way. Good stuff, Dean. Thank you very much for joining us. We will end it there. John, Rob, thank you at the Emirates. Andros, good to have you in the same country as is the same timeframe. Rory, Chris, thank you.

Are you right, Chris? You're not saying bye? You've been awesome. Yeah, no, you've lost a lot of things here. All right. Bye. Marbles, number. Yeah, thank you.

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