Football Daily - MNC: Brentford, Brighton & the silent treatment

Episode Date: September 21, 2026

Mark Chapman is joined by Chris Sutton, Nedum Onuoha and Rory Smith. The panel compare Brighton and Brentford, both 3-0 victors over Arsenal and Chelsea respectively and the two models, as it stands which one is best placed to deliver? But what is stopping both clubs reaching the next level? Nedum opens up about disagreeing with managers during his playing career and navigating those relationships. One during his time at QPR with Harry Redknapp and a set piece argument with Roberto Mancini at City! French football journalist and commentator Matt Spiro drops by as the Zidane era begins. Plus where will JJ Gabriel end up and what happened to Chris as a youngster when he did some cat sitting!TIMECODES:02:10 Brentford & Brighton  15:00 How far can they go?  25:40 Managers after defeat  28:50 Nedum on Redknapp at QPR  35:50 Set piece controversy with Mancini 40:10 Zidane era  46:00 JJ Gabriel future 53:10 Chris's cat sitting incident

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On the open road, conditions change. Your composure doesn't have to. But technologies like terrain response to and clear sight ground view, Range Rover Sport brings confidence and control the challenging conditions. Explore more atrangerover.ca. This is the Monday Nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily Podcast. Welcome to the Monday Nightclub, Roy Smith, Chris Sutton and Nadine Maneua are all with us.

If there was a member of the Monday Night Club community who I thought might be targeted by a groundsman on a pitch roll where it wasn't Amdross. but anybody ever driven a lawnmower at you, Chris? A taxi in Glasgow, but not the lawnmower. It's a slightly different. It's actually quite serious, is that?

I don't know why I'm laughing, but yeah. Yeah, the Chelsea groundsman, yeah, I mean, he may have had the nod to have a go, but that was some watch, wasn't it? It was. It was. It was. It was.

That was nuts. Chris thought it was targeted. It wasn't, well, for legal reasons, I don't think we can say that it was. I very much doubt it was. It did look out of control. Should we go there? You're meant to be the journalist, Rory. You're meant to be the one that helps me with slightly legal issues.

Just say that if I was Andros, I'd take it personally. Do we know that he's okay? Yes. He is, yeah. Yeah, he is. But, I mean, actually, when you see it, and Nadip came in telling me you can't stop watching it, he does do

he is quite lucky because that roller does go over his leg yeah to be honest I'm not to be conspiratorial but what is the value of that roller if he can't even crush somebody's leg what's going on have I missed something here

I thought this is catastrophic but is that no he's fine what does that thing actually do it's like a lint roller just going over an inflatable roller yeah yeah questions need to be asked

anyhow the idea of that bit was to wish Andros our best but I'm not sure I'm not sure at the end of that 90 seconds because we really have. We'll look at what's going on in the international break with players pulling out here there

and everywhere. We'll look at how the youth system operates in this country and across Europe. But we're going to start with positivity because you were very keen, Rory. I'm going to start with you. You were very keen to do Brighton and Brentford together tonight for the first 25 minutes or so.

Both winning 3-0 over the weekend. You could argue against teams at rather different stage. of their development. Yeah, it felt very much like it was Brentford and Brighton's weekend. The performance is not just the fact that they've won, but the fact that they both won so well. And it just struck me, those drawlines are quite striking anyway,

but it struck me the fact that going, you know, it's the five games in, start the international break. It feels like the first little chapter of the Premier League is over. And they're probably two of only a handful of teams who are relatively happy with the way the season started. And it's at this time of the year, Chappas, because I think generally, like, once a season for the last three or four years, I've thought, I bet Brighton could get in the Champions League.

And I normally come on the radio and say it and then regret it for quite a long time. Did you say it? I don't know. I'm not sure you said it last year. Did you? I think I may be trying to take a year off. Sometimes you have to let the field lie fallow. Okay. You've got to, you've just to the crop. The farmer amongst us will know that. See, Chris is nodding. No, and I think it's interesting that they do look, you know, from the evidence of the first five games,

Some members of the traditional bid six don't look as strong as they might. Brentford and Brighton look really well set in different ways. And I'm interested in why the likelihood is that they won't both be able to push for the top four. I think they could, but it intrigues me what happens between now and May that stops them. I think from my perspective with those two, we're kind of judging them based on how they performed against two of the bigger sides as such. in the league, but I think for some of the teams that do qualify for the Champions League at the end of the season, it's how they do against everybody else. And I think for those sides, the only thing that's sort of holding me back a little bit is Brentford on Friday, I can't really fancied him to beat Chelsea.

Like, Chelsea hadn't really shown anything from a, especially from a defensive standpoint, which made me think that a trip to a rival in Brentford, a local derby would be a game that would suit them. But the Arsenal wanted me as a shot for them to score three goals, but then you look at the three goals, the three really good goals. But I just think again, from a Champions League standpoint, it tends to be around 65 points that gets you into the Champions League. And so, Rora, do you think those two sides will get 20 plus

wins this season to finish in there? Well, so yeah, that is kind of where I landed. I think with Brighton, there's maybe a question mark over Europe and how that affects their form, whether that might sort of in a cumulative way stop their progress.

But with both of them, I think the thing they struggle with over the course of the season is beating I think they're both capable of being excellent against the kind of traditional elite. But I think there's a different pressure on teams to win the number of games you need to win to get into the Champions League. So for context, Rory, just to interrupt, they've beat Spurs on the opening weekend. They then drew at Leeds, drew at home to Sunderland. They conceded a very late penalty in that game.

They drew at Bournemouth and they've beaten Chelsea at home. So does that back up your point? Yeah, I think the big challenge of the Premier League for everybody at the moment is being the team that is the protagonist in games. I think it's the thing that's really difficult for everyone to be the team that says, we've got the ball, we know how to break you down. I think Brighton and Brentford, neither of whom have the majority of possession at the weekend, they both had less of the ball and won really well without it. I think they face a different challenge when teams like Sunderland or Bournemouth or Everton or whoever it might be

go to the G-Tech or go to the Amex and say, okay, you have to break us down. I think that, yeah, we'll come on to Manor-Ni-Niated, Liverpool, Tottenham, Villa, Chelsea, they're all struggling to do that in different ways anyway. I think for Brentford and Brighton, you throw Bournemouth into the mix generally as well. I think the challenge they have is in beating the teams

mid-table, lower-mid-table, the teams that consider themselves their peers, those games, and they're the majority of games in the Premier League, it's hard for them to define games against those opponents. I think in a way we get a not a false impression, but watching them against the Big Six is when they are often at their very best. That's when they're almost at their most dangerous, whereas the Premier Leads are grind to finish in the top five.

You need to grind out results, and I think those teams struggle to do it. That's my theory, but I'm fully happy to be told by Chris that I'm wrong. No, I think Brentford looking at them last season, I think you're right against the top teams, they had a tremendous record, but it was against the teams who sat in last season and, you know, defended deep where Brentford struggled. I think the worry with Brentford, and if you look back at last season, and I don't turn into a stat guy here, but they didn't have many injuries. They didn't have many injuries at all.

That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a sports science guy, that's not the stats guy. The injuries one is the sport science. How many weeks do you have to do this? That morphs, that does morph into stats, though. Anything that you have to count. But what's interesting about the two teams, I've not seen loads of Brentford this season, but stylistically last season, they were essentially counter-attack. And yet Brighton, let's get it right, Brighton, you know, we're praising Brighton. And last season, Fabian Hurtzler came under a bit of flack from the Brighton fans at one particular time.

But Brighton played sort of in the opposite way to the way that Brentford do. But Brighton, I think, have a deeper squad than Brentford. And because of that, you think, well, you know, does that give them a better chance? but then you mentioned the Europa or Europe with Brighton. Last time they were in Europe, their form did dip when they had European football, I think, points per game. That dropped off. But it's fascinating the way that they've started, the way that they press,

how hard they go at it. And apparently they pressed harder in the second half last season than they did in the first half. But that, of course, you know, you run the risk of more injuries if you're going to play. that way. But I mean, they're an incredible watch. And then you, you know, you get onto the the recruitment side of it. And once again, I mean, you would have all seen Bushovich play this season for Brighton. What an incredible, what an incredible signing. He is 50 million from Spurs. Spurs fans must be thinking, you know, how on a, why have we sold this guy? I always think with sides when you play like Brighton and you're, you're so aggressive.

with the press. Your best players have to be your sort of centrebacks. And for a 19 year old to have the, I mean, he's mobile and he can play and he's big, he's robust. I mean, that's another Brighton Masterstroke and another sort of, another sort of blot on the Tottenham copy book. I mean, there are quite a few subjects on tonight that will sort of all merge into each other, I suppose,

in what we're discussing. So we could. I mean, not that this is unusual, but we could meander into all sorts of different ways over the course of the two hours. But just on Vuscovic, and then we'll come back to Brighton, Brentford as a two, Voscovich wasn't unknown. Voskovich had been on loan at Hamburg last season, and by all accounts, had had a very good, very impressive season.

So it's not like Brighton have bought a 17-year-old, or Spurs have thought, will let a 17-year-old go and maybe he'll develop and we'll have a... They've let someone go where the evidence is from Germany that he is more than capable. And that's the bit, I think,

lots of people in this day and age, question? Was that... Was it Hamburg you went to? Yeah. And they were in the Bundesliga 2? Yeah. No, Bundesliga.

Bundesliga. It was in Bundesliga last year. The only thing I'm not like... Well, to give Spurs a loose bit of credit because they've been catching strays already, is they do have the ability to bring him back, and that suggests that they've actually realized what they're letting go,

somebody who wasn't perfect for this moment, but somebody again who can gain experience, and I think they've got, I forget what the exact terms of the contract are, but they've got the right to buying back, and obviously that will cost their money, but I think they acknowledge that he is a really good player, potentially,

but I suppose they don't know what he's going to be like in the Premier League, and when it comes down to, say, the manager now, in Deserby, managers, they know who they trust, and they know who they don't. They know who they want and know who they don't. So realistically, Vuscovich could be as good as you want, but he wanted Tanesi.

You know, he wanted Van Hecker from his time when he was at Brighton as well. And maybe Voskovich in the future will have the chance to play. But it's just good that you're seeing there. And it's incredible as well, because with Brighton, similar in some ways to, I'd say a born of similar to Brentford,

they're more like the sum of their pass, it feels like. Because as soon as somebody leaves, the next person to come in, you've probably never really heard of them before, but they do just as good a job. I think an example, if we bring in Bournemouth now, obviously in the league itself, having had the best of stars,

true fare, all of a sudden, it's just, oh, Kerkers, you know what I mean? That doesn't matter. Same with the attackers, that's Semenio goals. Crupé Jr. comes in. All of the players like this. And it's the same with Brighton. Again, every time I look at their team,

I don't think to myself, oh, yeah, that's a really, really good team. But for a good few years now, especially under Hurtzler, they've just been excellent. Well, the one that sums up, Brighton for me is Yalkeye, who I will admit I did not particularly notice. I think he was at Swansea last season, wasn't it?

Chris will probably have seen more of him. He was at Swansea last season and Sturm Gratz the year before. So he was bought by Brighton. 2024? Yeah, 24. I didn't see much of him at Swansea. That's the opposite end of the country.

Just thought with your country. With your loyalties in the championship, Chris, I thought you might have seen him a bit. But that's typical of Brighton. They signed him, I think, from AIK in 2024. They loan him out for two years. All clubs now will have kind of specialists looking at the players

they've got loaned out, making sure they're getting the right sort of experiences. They'll touch base every week, all that stuff, which Brighton do, and which most teams do. And then they bring him back when he's ready. And he just looks like he's ready made for the Premier League. Like he's not really battered an eyelid from that first week. And yeah, the Vustovic's then I find But let me throw another example in there Rory

Iari. They signed in 2023. He went on loan to Well, I'm sure you saw a lot of him, Chris, when he was at Coventry and Blackburn on loan. But that's what they do. Yeah, and they've got a pathway and a plan When if you compare that to Vustovic, who was really highly sought after

when he was picked up by Spurs, who they then loan out and who had basically as good a season on loan in a different country and I take an Edom's point about different leads, different experiences. But as good a season as you'd possibly hope for, this is a player you've kind of invested money in already. And then they sell him for 50 million-ish, use some of that money to buy Jan Paul Van Hecker for 60 million and then potentially have to have to buy Voskovich back to maybe even replace. Van Hecker. That is the reason Brighton and one end of the table and spurs are at the other in one transfer.

I mean, it's an astonishingly odd thing to do just because the manager has worked with Van Hecker before. And Brighton's secret, and I think there is a difference in the way they work to Brentford. As Brentford, I think, are much less motivated by kind of recouping transfer value. But Brighton Secret is basically they have realised that there is an unlimited supply of footballers on the planet. that there are always more footballers. Just on the recouping value, it's quite interesting because if you take the transfer activity of the last five years, Brighton are one of two teams who are in profit,

I mean just in profit, but at 12, nearly 13 million pounds in profit, the only other team in the whole of the Premier League at the moment in profit over the last five years are Everton, and I'm sure Everton fans would probably think that's not. Reluctant profit. Yeah, reluctant, yeah. It's a very different way of making profit

than the way Brighton that have made profit. You know, Brentford, to be fair, have had one season in the last five where they made a profit on their transfers, but overall they're just shy of 200 million down over five years. But I suppose the point is, Chris, with these two clubs together, one of the questions that you would ask,

or people like me would ask, when, well, how can they keep it going? How far could they go? one of the points that somebody would then make is, well, at some point, they will be cherry-picked by the big boys in inverted commas, and then they will have to rebuild, you know, an Iax of a few years ago when they got to the chap, whatever it may be. These two already know how to do that?

I don't think that you can use that argument with either of these, can you? Because they've shown over several seasons that they are able to replace. Yeah, and I think certainly the thing for Brighton this season, I mean, whether you can judge any team playing Manchester United, but they, you know, they had a second streak against Manchester United and players who I'd never really heard of. Costina, Chema Andre, who played at the weekend, young 21-year-old. I mean, they stroll through the game.

And when you look at Brighton players who they have had out this season, the big hit is Mitzhoma and Minta and Minta and, belabor, you know, they've missed them this season. And you think the start they've had and the depth they have and they play this way, it will be really interesting to see how far they go. I am slightly reluctant about Brentford because I don't think they've done as much business as Brighton. I know Brighton have maybe let a few more go. But I don't think Brentford have had that big influx of players again.

And that makes it, you know, difficult for them to have another good season. They have to be on the right side of the sort of injury situation, which they, you know, were last season, which I think, you know, was a big deal. That's where you do need that strength and depth to really go deep and long into a season. Brighton have said specifically, because they're in Europe, they set out to run a slightly deeper squad than normal this season. And Brentford obviously missed out on Europe on the last day, last season, just. So that might be kind of the explanation for why one seems busier than the other. But I think that we always think of them as being part of the what is the Bermuda Triangle,

is the three B teams, Bournemouth, Brentford, Brighton, are these kind of trap for the big clubs. But I think Brentford and Brighton's models are quite different. Brentford, if you think about it, don't, they're not really about signing players to sell them on as much as Brighton are. There's been a couple who've done, and Buemo is the big one. and Whistair, although they were really reluctant to lose Yoan Whistler. It wasn't like they were happy to see Whistr go

and get his move to Newcastle, they didn't want to lose it. Is that on purpose then? Because for a layman like myself, I would think that they are similar in the way that they are run and the analytics and, you know, and all that. I would think that they're pretty much the same, but you're saying that they're not. I think that, yeah, in terms of the data, absolutely Matthew Benham and Tony Bloom,

although I think the relationship between those two is quite uneasy, but they are of similar backgrounds. They've obviously designed the clubs in similar ways. But from the outside, I would say Brighton looked like a club that are buying players, young, developing them, and with the aim of selling them on. Because actually, if you look at Brentford, that doesn't seem to be their priority quite so much.

I'm sure if, you know, like Sangare, I'm sure we'll go for, you know, a huge sum of money in the next year or two. Edo Tsiago as well, I would guess if you can keep up the store and ratio from last season. But there hasn't been many in the markets they shop in for players that they recruit don't make me think that their kind of priority is resell in the same way as Brighton's. I could be wrong. But they've... Even though in Braymore and Wister went the previous summer.

Yeah. But there's not been many other big ones from Brentford. The difference between them is that Brighton or the manager changes... Ivan Tony the year before? Yeah, to Saudi. David Ryan. Does that account? Does it count?

David Ryan. Raya, that's true. Do we not think some of that, though, is because... I'm not just going to read out Brentford players that they've solved in the last five years. So for me, something that's like a little bit different between both sides is that at the end of this season, Brighton would have been in the Premier League for 10 years. Whereas for Brentford, this is their fifth year, I think, possibly their sixth. And some of the players that you mentioned there, these were players who were sort of in and around their sort of championship spell as well. So they almost had those players in that position, in that league, and they came up and they did well for them.

and they ended up moving, as opposed to the recruitment from the side of, say, Brighton, where the team's in the Premier League. It's their third or fourth manager in the Premier League. And these are the players they want to bring in. And I think there's another perspective here, which we don't really cover as such, I don't think as much in the media,

is the players will sign for Brighton, for example, because it's a good football club. But there's probably a sell in there, two agents and two players, that we will develop you, and then you will go to some of the biggest clubs in and around Europe and the world and so on. So when you're a player

that knows you get a chance to play in the Premier League to be paid well to do it and to play for a team who is now very much like a team who sees an established upper top half of the table how do you lose? We've even mentioned two players or Yoku and so on

who've been on loan for like two, three years at the contracts it doesn't matter, you're going to play football and you're going to have the backdrop of knowing that if it doesn't work out at Brighton you can go on loan somewhere else, go on loan somewhere else because you're young, you've got time, will give you time but there's something about each player that gets

brought in that suits the way that they want to play. And in some ways, it's got a bit of jealousy here because when I was playing, I was at QPR. QPR in terms of size is no different. You could argue possibly bigger than Brentford. But the way that Brentford have operated their club

with their recruitment, their idea of like staying true to who they are, I look back at my time at, say, QPR. And in the dressing room, we had, say, the likes of Jamie McKee Clinton Hills, people who, Sean there is coming up through the Football League and sitting next to them was Julius's eyes, just been at Benfica. Like, that's, I don't know.

There was a lot of very, very short-term thinking at that time. You know, maybe that's the reason that me. You never know. But there was a lot of short-term thinking where some of these clubs, they're trying to remain who they are whilst also being competitive in the league as well. On that, and I know you'll maybe not saying this in so many words. But the discussion that lots of people will have and have had is, well, hang on a minute. why do they get these players

when they get these players and why aren't the so-called top six in for these players at the same time? But do you actually think if they signed for a top six team rather than let's just do Brighton here rather than lump in with Brentford you'd actually be signing a different player?

Glad Murray sat where you were on Saturday and said there's a patience thing. So you're allowed to develop more at Brighton because there's a general patience around club and supporter base that you don't necessarily have to be a world beater from the moment you start. And your point is you will get a move if you succeed here,

as in there's a carrot there, and you haven't fully made it yet. Whereas, and I'm not singling players out any particular of the elite six, if you go at 20 there, there's a danger of you've made it. Yeah, I think there is a danger of that, but then the type of player going to some of those bigger clubs at 20, they are a big deal

some of the players that say Brighton and others are signing they've got the potential to be like even look at the nature of the clubs we're talking about that they're being signed from like AIK this Vienna team and so on and so forth that isn't for the most part where the clubs more towards the top of the league

will be looking for players maybe because it's a political thing you can't sign this talent from Austria of Vienna because clearly that's not going to be the one that's take you to the promised land but they're also young enough to where there's a pressure that comes with, like, if we just talk about the team across the road, any person at signs

from Manchester United in this era is under huge pressure to get them back to where they were 10, 15 years ago. And if it doesn't work out, it seems like you're a long-term thing, then you'll just be out of the football club because the chances are there might be a new manager and new policy and so on. Whereas with these other places, you are part of like a project that's been going on for a while now. So you understand the club's identity. And at times, to be fair, with Brighton, with Brentford, you could say with Bournemouth, has the identity really changed in the last three or four years regardless of whoever's been in charge

and for me the answer is probably not so you know what you're signing up for it's also great the sort of outlier for Brighton getting Pascal Gross back and the form he is in I mean it's totally I'm not saying it's against the grain of what they've you know what they've ever done

but just for him to come back and in place a 35 now I mean amazing player he has been you know the level of this season but the last couple of games just absolutely incredible. So it's not.

So, you know, they have a structure, but they will, you know, occasionally go against that. It's what works for them. If I said to you then, Chris, with both these clubs, and I'll bring them back together here, even though, as Rory points out,

there are different models, if I said to you, could they reach the next level? What would you think the next level for those two clubs is, and how would you answer it? Could they reach the next level? Well, yeah, the next level would be, yeah, I think finishing in and around

Champions League football every season, wouldn't it? I mean, they're not, you know, they aren't massive football clubs, but they are clubs which have grown well and grown strong. And when you look at the mess other clubs we associate and say our big clubs are making of at this moment in time, there's no reason that, Consistency Brighton have shown the last couple of seasons, you know, two eighth place finishes, Brentford haven't been quite as consistent,

but you'd have to say, you'd have to say, why not? If something is working and that, and the model is working for both, then, yeah. So, yeah,

I mean, look, it's hard to actually say that there'll be, you know, I mean, at the moment, what, what are they third and fourth in the Premier League?

They're not going to finish third and fourth in the Premier League. Why aren't they? That's been the whole point of this last half hour. Yeah, I know, but it's just, you know, the... I'm glad you didn't say that at six minutes past, aren't. I will say, I think Brighton have a far better chance than Brentford do, but then, you know, Europe may sort of drag them down a little bit.

Just I think Brighton squad is, you know, is deeper. This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily Podcast. 90s, women's 10. Your sales order says one. thing. Your inventory says another. Your spreadsheet says, good luck. Odu brings your business together on a single platform, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. Visit Odu.com to book a demo. It's O'DO.O.com. In the Ranger Rover Sport, performance is more than a promise. It's something

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This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily podcast. I'll go talk international as a minute. I just want to do one thing on Deserby and how he is after a defeat and what Chris never lost a game of football. So I'll come to you, David. I've got some experience. What you wanted from a manager after a defeat,

because DeZerby didn't talk to the players after, said he didn't talk to them after the defeat against Aston Villa, but then went back and sort of criticised them in his post-match interviews. Chris, I don't know if you'd agree with this, but I was never really surprised by anything the manager would say after a game because as a player, you know how a game has gone for the most part, especially based on what the plan was for the week, how we sort of didn't.

I think sometimes people forget that players can also think for themselves. Like you, after a game, you've got your own thoughts about how you've played, how the team's done it, the disappointment of the result, how you've lost, you know, why you've lost, was it a bad decision, was it good performance, was it bad performance, all these things. And now, Andrew coming in and speaking, most of the time just ends it with, like, get your stuff,

we've got training tomorrow, we're going to try and work on the next thing, blah, blah, blah, blah. So Deserby not speaking, I don't think it's that bigger deal for most of the experienced players in there Because that's a message in itself But the players know, the players will know I think I'm more so concerned When some managers try and speak to their players

Through media And not speak to them directly Because the media stuff I don't know man Like I've had some managers in my time I'll name two Okay, I'll name to Go on now

Yeah so first one that had the media in the palm of his hands was Roberto Mancini. Yeah. He could do no wrong in the media. And the other one for a spell was actually Harry Rednapp. To where like for a spell at QPR, if we won, anyone, any player speaking to the press afterwards would have to talk about how it's great to have Harry as a manager. This is especially in the championship.

And if you lost, it's because us's players, we weren't good enough. And they'd be asking Harry about, well, no, what can you do about this? And then that's when it gets a little bit dice. if you know what I mean. But yeah, in terms of what manager says, I think the more games you play, the more you understand for yourself, what went right, what went wrong.

And, yeah, unless the manager throws a curveball, what they say realistically doesn't matter because the game's been. You know, he can shout people. Go on. Do you think, though, Nedden, the fact he doesn't speak, which is fine,

he's probably exhausted everything in the first five games anyway. He's probably said everything, which he can say. I mean, he's been very critical public but the fact he doesn't say anything, Nedham, and then goes to the press and or the media

and spills his guts and is really quite derogatory. I think that that wouldn't make him the most popular guy. I think he's got to get that out if he's going to give that message out in public. Yeah, I think so.

But again, most of these relationships, as you know, are going to be done away from the cameras and away from the microphones. Like, what was you like on the Monday? when they go into training again, is he carrying some of that with him? Like, again, I've had some,

maybe you have as well, I've had some managers who say some despicable things on the training ground. Genuinely despicable, about players, about collectives, about teams, everything.

And in some ways, that probably goes further than anything they've sort of said in the media, because a lot of time with media, especially these days, and Deserbe is almost the exact opposite of this. They say nothing, because the real messages

they'll give to the players, you know, away from the limelight. But yeah, I also think you don't, you don't necessarily need to like your manager. You just have to understand what they want and do the best that you can.

Be respected by your manager? No, I don't think so. I think for me personally, the utopia is to have a manager who you really like and he really likes you and you work really well together. But how many players up and down the land are realistically having that experience? The answer is probably not many whatsoever.

It's then it comes down to a level of professionalism and understanding what's required and playing for yourself and your teammates. if the manager likes it, the manager likes it. Go on. But you must have wanted to be respected. Yeah, but the respect comes in the manager essentially picking you to a certain extent.

And basically, you don't want to be the person that's treated differently, but for the wrong reasons. Like, I didn't like to be treated differently for a positive reason either. I just wanted to be part of the group as such. But the manager, I think for me, with most of them that I've had, I didn't really have a true relationship with them.

I just wanted to play. And if I was playing and we were winning, everything was great. The issue is when you're now being taken out of the team or you're being cast as this, that and the other. And again, to give you a super specific example, since this is the Trauma Monday show. There was a point with... I mean, I don't want that name to catch you.

Yeah, I hope it doesn't. I'm happy with overreaction Monday. So this is a genuine story. And like we were at QPR. Harry Redneck, we got knocked out the FA Cup in the third round. Shock horror. I played about eight cup games in seven years for QPR. But yeah, we got knocked out in the third round.

So we had a trip to Dubai, a warm weather training trip. And Harry doesn't like it when people drink here. And I don't drink anyway, and I don't really go out or anything like that. So I'm just going over there, do what I've needed to do, then go home a few days later. However, I was in the exception. So there were lots of people who were doing just that. and there was one training session in particular which I'll never ever forget.

It's the worst training session I've ever seen because half the people couldn't see straight and there was one person in particular I won't name him but anyone that played with me at the time they know him I'm talking about you could pass him a ball and he'd miss it by like two feet and Harry was getting really worked up about this and at the time I didn't really have any like true relationship with him

and he started having chowting at me somebody who hadn't been out somebody who was just doing a training session and I pushed back in. Were you missing the ball by two yards as well? I was when I passed it to him. So I was like, just control the ball. You know what I mean?

Misplay's past is when somebody can't see it. But Harry, I started having to go with me. So I pushed back and I said, you're frustrated because other people have done what you didn't want them to do. And managers overall don't like it when you talk back to them. And in that moment, I felt it was justified because I'm not going to be the villain here. Because I've not done anything wrong.

You're sober. From then, he did not say a word to me for two months. I didn't play a game for two months. Not a word. Like, we could be in a lift together. like they're awkward anyway, nothing, yeah? Until we were playing against Fulham and a Derby and we're having a...

I was on a bench, lo and behold, and they're having a terrible time and Harry in the first half was like, three and all, turned halfway through the first half, turned to be says, go get ready, I need you, I need you. It's not said a word to me for two months. Oh, God, good Lord. Good Lord. That was a...

I'm glad to be able to speak this story to the nation. Obviously, everyone's had different experience with Harry, but... Is it helped you getting that off your chest native? Is that make you go back? Yeah, listen, I know what the clip's going to be, so yeah, that's fine. But then from Harry's side, I'm not sticking up for him, the fact that you called him out in front of the group.

Listen, most people couldn't even hear what he was saying. That's the issue. You've got to sign up for yourself, though, Chris. You have, but you can, I'm not saying Nedham was wrong in what he did, but you've also got, if you flip that and think, in Harry's situation, if other people, you know, were part heard that, then, you know, the manager can't be talked back to. Can't be belittal. Hang on, you've never, you've never told a manager that they're wrong.

Many times, but I've gone into their office to tell them that they were wrong. Right. For my issue with this was the sense of injustice. Yeah. And this talking about thing, actually happened twice because it sounds like I'm like really rude and whatever now, but it's not. Because like, why am I being shouted out for going out when I've not been out? But the other time, yeah. Yeah, the other time, which is, which I've learned because as I got older I didn't speak to any manager

about anything ever you could call me whatever they want but yeah yes sir yes sir yeah off we go by the end yeah

so it was at city now and we were playing this is to be fair this is when my city's career just disappeared completely this is with my cheating in charge and we were playing on like a Super Sunday

or something it was a way to Burnley and we happened to be I think it was either four or five nil up at half time but just before half time there was a free

kick and everybody was in the right spot except for one person. I won't name the person, but it wasn't me. Cross came in. Cross came in. They had a shot. It went wide. So it's like four, five and up a half time away from home. This is like heaven.

In terms of football, this is heaven. This does not happen. Water and everybody's bouncing. It's like, yeah, vibes, vibes. And Mancini says, what were you doing on the set piece at the end? I was like, excuse me? He says, what were you doing at the set piece on the end? You were in the wrong position.

I was like, no, wasn't. I was exactly where he told me to be. He says, yes, you were. You need to make sure you look on that board, this, that, and you. Then he was angry at half time. So I said, well, I was in the right position. From that point, he calmed down, pull me to the side, I said, don't you ever speak back to me again?

And I played for City twice more in the next year and a half. That was it. Again, for standing up for yourself. Yeah, because, do you know what? I'll give a shout to it. It was Craig Bellamy. He was in the wrong position. I love you, Craig.

I love you, mate. He was in the wrong position. It was about me getting hammered at half time. I was like, hold on a second. Like what's going on? Like I say from then, I was cooked. He was not having me a job. He didn't want to criticize Bellamy.

Or do you think it was genuinely, genuinely he thought you were the one who was in the wrong place? Possibly both. Because you could link it in some ways to the hair-red-knap situation. It's not to say that those two managers hadn't had great relationships with people across all the years and so on and so forth.

But in those two instances, I hadn't been going out in Dubai and I wasn't in the wrong position from this free kick. But because I don't really offer any pushback and I'd just train. of a sudden I'm like, no, that's not wrong. Were you ever considered one of the members of a squad, a bit like Guadiola kept doing with Carl Walker in a,

you're going to be my lightning rod to hammer to get a message across to everybody else? Do you buy into that? Well, that was Mick Al Antonio, wasn't it? Do you remember at West Ham with David Moise? He said that's what would happen. Those two would always have this thing. But I wouldn't speak out against managers.

I never did that. Never, ever did that. I'd just train. But all of a sudden, when like, what, excuse me, I'm supposed to say, okay, yeah, sorry, Gaffer. So if we've been in the right position, I will take that blame. But yeah, I spoke up in those two instances, probably the only two instances in my career. And as a consequence, I got the silent treatment and got booted out of a football club.

Did you ever try and stop the silent treatment? Did you ever try and? No, no. Listen, I love it. I loved it. I love the silent. If that's who you want to be, I'm ready for it. I will hold a grace for the day that I die.

Don't worry about it. Me too. But Nedim. Nedim, would you do things differently if you relive those two? instances again based on based on what happened well it's based on understanding the two managers because with roberto i didn't understand that's who he was at that time and with harry i still think it's unjust and i think it was worth speaking up to somebody about and over time harry started picking me again and everything became more normal but with roberto like i um i learned a few things

across the years and i've tried to give some of this information back to say younger people who coming through the academies i was at and so on one of them i don't know if you guys agree. It's like say when you're not in a side, there's certain ways you can go and speak to a manager which doesn't sort of like get their backup. And one thing which I got told from my friend at the time who's an agent, you said, whenever you're not playing, says go and speak to a manager and ask what can I do to get into the team, what do I need to do as opposed to ask them why am I not in the team? Because then you present it to them like, well, this is what you've got to do or they'll tell you you've got to leave. But if you'll say this is what you've got to do and you start doing it, they don't

pick you. All of a sudden, they're the bad guy. It's not you anymore. There's lots of things like that. You'll listen to the Nader Manua Confession. Thank you very much. On Five Live. You will not be hearing from me any time, too. I'm out. And that will be a regular podcast available every Tuesday morning.

It's a list of Nader Manua's enemies. What? We have just quote Nadeem's enemies. No, but the thing is those two are such, they're not my enemies. But there's such significant moments where, like, it's still to this day feels unjust. And now for all the other people who've wronged it. Hey, listen, man. Poor old Craig Bellamy.

No, listen, Bella's a great guy. But you did not take the fall for me that day. I'll tell you that for a vote. He doesn't know where to be at set piece though, does he know? Well, there you go, my friend. Especially with 5-0. Zinandis and Dan's about to take over France. So we're going to talk about that.

Matt Spiro, French football journalist and commentators has been waiting for 25 minutes through that last segment. Just before, have you got somewhere you need to be very shortly? Or are you okay for a little? I dropped in on a counselling session for Ned but I'm pleased we're moving to Zadat. Just before we get on to Zedan,

and I don't want to make things worse for Spurs fans at the moment, but you have put out on social media. Was it over the weekend about how Deserbie left Marseille and where Marseille are at now? Yeah, well, I mean, it's really interesting listening to the discussion that you guys were having about Deserbie and his relationship with his players, and the way he acts sort of after defeats

because it is so similar to all the discussions we were having over here in those last weeks, tumultuous weeks at Marseille. And I don't want to paint everything negative about this Urbe because it was quite positive for about 15 months. He took Marseille to second. Marseille seemed to be moving in the right direction. There was a lot of investment.

They had a big squad. They probably spent more than they really should have. And things went horrible. wrong. And when they started going wrong, in terms of the way Deserby behaves, like after a defeat, I feel like it's exactly the same. He disappears. When they went out the Champions League against Bruges in terrible fashion, he just, he didn't see his players afterwards. You know, he didn't speak to them until the next day. But there's also, there have been cases where he's really picked on individual players, whether that be, you know, in the dressing room in front of the players

or speaking out in press conferences. And there was one player in particular who was really well liked at Marseille, Amir Mario, who's a Panama International. And I think that was a case that really hurt Deserbi because he just went crazy by all accounts, you know, in the dressing room, said to Maria, we're selling you,

it's not acceptable, your performance is a dreadful, this and that. And I think a lot of the Marseille teammates were, you know, looking at that, listening to that, thinking, well, hang on, you know, this is a really loyal, good guy. and do I want to be playing for a manager who treats his players like that?

And it wasn't only a memory. It was quite a few. But certainly when things started going wrong, that was very much a feature of life at Marseille. Well, you have to commend Deserby now for not saying anything, don't you? You have to say he's learned his lesson then, Deserva. But Chris, I mean, I've seen, and again, I've not been following things as closely as you guys at Tottenham,

but there have been clips notably when he was having a big go at Matis Tell, who's a young French player, as you know, and it felt quite sort of pointed and humiliating and all of that got out. And I know that there have been comments as well, you know, criticisms of the team in press conferences. On to the international side of things, then. This is a huge shift, isn't it, for the French national team? after so long under Deshaun, or is it not?

I think it's a big shift. I think it's an exciting time because we've been waiting for so long for Zinid and Zadang to take the job that everybody kind of knew that he was going to take. I think quite a few people kind of wanted it to happen a few years ago, particularly after Deshaun had a very bad euros. But Deshaat overall, his record has been,

has obviously been exceptional. He's won the World Cup. He's got to another final. to a Euros final. So, you know, no complaints about that. But, yeah, after 14 years of listening to Deshaun press conferences, of seeing Deshaun picking more or less the same players, you know, he's got his favourites, playing quite pragmatic football,

people are absolutely ready. And of course, Zidan, he's everybody's sort of favourite footballing figure. He's an absolute icon here in France. So, yeah, there's plenty of excitement, and it was great listening to Zidand. speak, because that's another thing. We never hear from him. This is a guy who says so little in the media. He's very thoughtful when he does speak.

So it's going to be interesting to see how already these next few weeks go. So if you bump into him, Nadeham, and he doesn't say much to you, that's not because he's salty. He's just about a few words. It's fun actually. Julianneuron was making the point that a lot of the French players are really excited about having Zidan as their head coach, because obviously Deschamp had an incredible career, but Zadon is an icon to all this generation.

So for them to be the position they're in as a team and to have somebody that good but also done it for Real Madrid as well like never a better time to be a French player, I don't think. And because of that aura, because of his reputation and stature and how he was as a player, what are the French players expecting?

What are they expecting in terms of a difference of style? I mean, you talked about, you know, Deshaal having favourites or so on and so forth. Are they expecting more freedom? What are they thinking? Yeah, I think, first of all, it is important to sort of say as well.

Deschant has an aura. Deschant has had an unbelievable career is one of the most sort of prestigious figures in world football, let alone French football. And when Deshaunt took over, the French national team was in a really bad place in 2012.

And he really helped to sort of bring the French national team back to the centre of everything and get French people liking Le Bleu once again. But yeah, it's been 14 years that have passed. Zadan is coming in. He's taking over at a time when the French national team

is in a much, much better position. They've got incredible talent. And I think those players are super excited. We know that Mbapé has always sort of, you know, grown up being kind of intrigued. I mean, Zidane is a godlike figure in France. I think it's important to sort of stress that. And he became a godlike figure in 19.

1998, which is the year that Killian Mbapé was born in. So, you know, these guys don't really know Zidan, the player, but they've grown up, like watching videos, hearing the stories and what have you. So I think there's going to be a lot of excitement. I think when that list was unveiled, it was special because getting picked by Zedan, I think it's even more special than getting picked by, you know, any other national team coach. And it's going to be interesting. In terms of the playing style, you know, that's the thing.

In the last few years, everyone's been saying, oh, it's just just so. you know, so dull under Deshaun, so defensive. I wish we had Zidan. He'd play loads of attacking players. And actually Zadan said, you know, calm down. For me, three attacking players is plenty. The important thing is to find a balance, to find, you know, and actually he was pretty pragmatic during his time at Rail Madrid as well. So it will be interesting, but I don't think it's going to be like all of a sudden

four, five, six attacking players, gung-ho football. Matt, thank you very much for coming on and being so patient earlier as well. Matt Spiro, French Football Journalist and commentator with us on. the Monday night club. I just want to end by, with Nadam and Chris and Roy, just talking about not necessarily the specifics of JJ Gabriel wanting

to leave Manchester United. He's 15. Plenty of clubs are looking at him now, Real Madrid, Barcelona, some clubs in the Premier League. Michael Caracas talked about trying to protect

him. There's plenty of stories doing the round. more of more interest to me, Rory, is is this really a surprise given the way the system works now? Because there are a lot of kids who are being looked at from rival clubs to take when they are 16, I'm guessing.

Yeah, younger. Yeah. Because they realise that there is, I think there's a point, there's a tipping point when they sign pro deals that means that you suddenly have to pay more than a kind of finder fee effectively that it becomes exponentially more expensive.

There's a kid who has gone from Liverpool to Arsenal I think called Vincent Joseph, who's 16. And Camaro won Chelsea to Liverpool. Yeah, and there's a few that come through that are high profile. There's an awful lot more who go for small beer by Premier League standards, but big money for teenagers.

And a lot of them don't ever become the player that they hope to be. So they might well have really good careers in the championship or even kind of in the Premier League. But, you know, Vincent Joseph, no idea. But I think if you had to bet at this stage, you'd probably say the chances are he won't ever, he's not going to store 100 goals for Arsenal.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. I hope he has a wonderful career. What I find really odd is that the clubs themselves, and there's only maybe half a dozen who do this reliably, haven't worked out. One, I'm not sure this is great for the kids, that they're getting massive money thrown at them

to try and entice them. from one big six, one big ten club, whatever you want to call it, to another. But too, it's kind of, it makes the whole environment much more pernicious, I think, and I'm a little bit surprised

there isn't some sort of agreement between the major teams not to poach players from each other. I don't understand, there might be one every so often who is such an incredible talent that they just have to have them. But I think the overall picture would be

if they just sort of said, let's not take players from each other under the age of 18, you'd actually kind of, what's the word, like deflate or douse the market a bit, and it means you're not exposing these young players and their families

to the law of making decisions for immediate cash. It should have been a question that I would have put to you, but is that naive? So I, for the most part, I disagree with what Rory said, and it's more so because the sort of youth market It's a huge market, not just for the clubs, but for the people involved.

Because one thing about football is the fact that it's open to everybody. And most people involved in it have got nothing. They've come from nothing. So the money itself that they can make from it is life changing to where, for some of them, they don't need to have had a full career to have they've had their lives changed. And to sometimes to think that people will be thinking on a moral level about what is right and what is wrong within football to make sure that they make the best decision. I think in some ways it's misguided because a lot of those guys as well,

there's huge interest and one of the reasons why someone might choose this place over another is the amount of money that they will offer. Like someone like JJ Gabriel is obviously huge talent because some of the biggest clubs in world football already looking at him as a 15 year old, as a child, I think relatively speaking, like his parents, like we've been saying that I'm not old, his parents are probably younger than me. So for them, this is a series of big decisions that they hope that they're getting right for their child.

But I feel like this became a bigger story because he's leaving Manchester United to go elsewhere. where because if he was a kid that was say at Brighton that went to Real Madrid because we mentioned Brian a few times. I think in some ways it might be champion to say, oh what an incredible player, what an incredible opportunity that is. And I just feel that at times

we're looking at football from the position we're in at the end of it. But for some of these people, the families, the kids, this is the start of it. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And it depends how you look at, like in the same ways you can look at youth development as is the purpose of having an academy

to bring young players through into your first team or is it to produce players who you can sell so that you can use that money to put into the first team? There is a third way of looking at it, which is if your kid is 15 or 16, and their options are to earn X,000 pounds at the club that they're currently playing at, or they get a massive payday,

as Natham says, that transforms their lives, their family lives, sets them for life by the time they're 20. It's really hard to turn that down. I'm just a little bit, I'm not sure that having that amount of money sloshing around for kids is healthy for the game but I take Nadum's point completely that for the individuals involved

it is understandable that is their priority I mean I think Rory's point about having too much money too early you know it stands I think it can be I think it can be a really bad thing JJ Gabriel you know I don't think and I don't know the ins and outs

but he can't be in a position where he holds Manchester United to ransom but you know maybe that he thinks that you know it's all about the pathway as pathways being blocked there and so you know he wants to go down a different route that's that's absolutely fine but you can't have young players holding holding clubs of ransom back in the day mark when i when i was a was a was a was a was a white yes i was on twenty nine pounds 50 the first year 35 pounds the second year you think about all this too much cash too early that's not a lot of cash i had a bus pass as well

I lived in Diggs in the city because the village I lived in in Norfolk was too far. I didn't have a regular bus service. And the first digs I lived in had an ant infestation. So I moved out of that one. The second Diggs I lived in was with another three other guys. And the woman and the guy who were our sort of landlords went away for the weekend. And their cat was pregnant. and they said, look, the cat may have babies,

and they went away, and the cat had the kittens overnight, and we got up in the morning, and the cat had eaten all the kittens. We walked into the cat room. It was like a Texas chainsaw massacre. What a show. And I got booted out.

What a show. And they kicked me out because that was it, because the cat didn't have kittens, Mark. I mean, J.J. Gabriel wouldn't have to deal with that, would he? meandering into a dead end. Cheers, Chappas. Yeah, absolutely.

Character, do you remember when Mika did the story at the end about a dead dog? Yeah, I do. I remember Mika and that. I remember Mika and the Father Christmas one and that's right up there. Thanks. Thanks.

Thanks, Chris. I just share that. All these young players, they're too much too soon. Deal with that. Deal with the cat having kittens. That's not a problem. Is the eating that's the problem? Well, that's not.

It wasn't my fault, Rory. Missed any of them. It sounds a bit like it might have been. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Rory. Thank you. Thank you. Nadeem.

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