Football Daily - MNC: England, Alex Scott injury & Robbie Savage on his new job!

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

Alistair Bruce-Ball is joined by Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Charlie Adam. The panel reflect on England’s performance against Croatia and look ahead to England’s game against Czechia at Wembley with John Murray. The team debate the benefits of playing abroad and also the controversy around Alex Scott’s withdrawal due to injury. Plus Robbie Savage drops by to talk about becoming manager of League One side Peterborough. TIMECODES:03:10 England’s win 08:30 John Murray & Tuchel 15:40 Players going abroad 26:50 Alex Scott 33:50 Scotland 44:10 Robbie Savage

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Secrets, Catching My Teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. This is the Monday Nightclub with Alistair Bruce Ball on the Football Daily Podcast. Hello and welcome to the Monday Nightclub, former Scotland International Charlie Adam, joined the regulars Rory Smith and Chris Sutton, who's got a rather mischievous look on his face this evening, which worries me, always worries me slightly. Chris, are you okay? Yeah, I just wondered where our leader is this evening.

Where's Mark? Mark Chapman, not here this evening. So they're normally second in charge as Kelly Cates. Where's Kelly Cates this evening? I don't know, Chris. I don't know. Thank you for that, Chris. Charlie, how are you?

Very well, thank you. Good, good. Are you really, Charlie? Are you really after your weekend? Yeah, absolutely. The big win against Celtic and the semi. or was it doing that? It's like anything, Chris, you get to that final point

and you don't deliver, that's the disappointing. You know what it's like the old friend. You need to deliver, and we never delivered it to find the last moment. But ultimately, one victory was nice to take. What's the competition here, Charlie, you were playing, right? Yeah, so playing the 10-6s, which is something that was a long long time ago in Scotland. A bit like Masters football. But back in the day, the actual real players used to play.

So the players from the clubs would come and play. it was old retired ones now and yeah, I was playing for angels. Well, not just old retired, Charlie. I heard you had an underage player. No, no underage player. No, no underage.

You know what it's like, Chris? We abide by the rules at Rangers and we managed to just get people that were really important at that moment for us. So Charlie Adam is here for the next couple of hours, Rory Smith as well.

Rory, how's your international break been so far as we move into the third week? Yeah, just really focused on international football, nothing else is happening, are they? Yeah, always been just been dead quiet, to be honest. Yeah. I think I've written about a million words about Manchester City in the last 10 days, yeah. Okay, doesn't feature in the show tonight?

You might be pleased to hear. So we're about to hear from Thomas Tuchel, who's been talking to John Murray today, ahead of England's game against Czechia at Wembley tomorrow night. John is going to join us very shortly. Just before we do that, I wanted to ask you all very briefly about England's win and performance in Croatia.

on Saturday night. I mean, standout scoreline, Chris, do you think England fans should rightly be getting excited about that or are people going a little overboard? Yeah, it's really difficult to answer because on the face of things, I mean, that was one of the best England team performances that I think I have ever seen.

But you have to temper that with how poor, Croatia were, you know, physically just, just miles off at Modrich, great play he's been as, you know, has, you know, he's come to the end, Perisich. And, you know, England, England were brilliant and they were good against the Czechs, but in the big test against Spain, they came up short, but played pretty well in that game. Yeah, I just, I think it's really difficult because in many respects Thomas Tewkill, the performance against Spain was good, and the last two results have been really, really positive, but still in the back of my mind, and I think a lot of England fans' minds, is that, you know, why couldn't England be as brave as that against Argentina? So I can

understand sort of both sides of that. Charlie, how did you rate it? I thought it was excellent. I think if you're a fan England, you know, and that's the problem. We keep going to You want to keep going back to Argentina to Argentina. It's gone. You can't pick it up. You're going to have to leave it and look at the next performances. What is the next performance for England? They're always going to qualify World Cups.

The biggest thing for England will be that next hurdle. Can they actually lift the trophy? And again, like you said, there's good moments against Spain. We can't keep referring back to Argentina, Argentina, because, you know, on the day. We can. We're English. We can. That's what we do.

But I think you have to look forward and realise what special talents you have. And I keep saying that, like, you know, you've got some top, top players in the world at the moment playing in your national team. Should actually enjoy watching them. Yeah, of course, there's going to be hurdles and there's going to be disappointments. But it's not about getting on these lads straight away or this and that. Thomas Tickle made a mistake. He'll know that. He won't publicly come out and say that because he won't to protect himself, but also as well.

You know, wouldn't be surprised to me during this camp that he's opened up to the place. players and said, yeah, I could have done things better or we could have done things better. And I take responsibility for that. I'm learning about the group. Now this is a real chance for them to stamp their authority. They've got some wonderful players. And I think, like Chris said, I think Croatia were poor, but ultimately, that's in England how they play as well. Rory, yeah, go on, Rory.

I was going to say, inland are in a slightly weird position. Charlie's completely right. You can't keep harping on about Argentina because the game is over. It was four months ago or whatever. and whatever happened happened and you can interpret it how you like. But it is tricky for England, I think, because for all that it's absolutely right

that they've got a brilliant generation of players, they are permanently in consideration for semifinals, finals of major tournaments. I think they'll probably go into the Euros as favourites, not least, obviously, does it, it's on home soil. But if you look around all of the other major nations in Europe, there's a sense of a story starting. So Germany, obviously, under Jordan Plop,

Italy, Roberto Mancini's back. Zinadine Zadans in charge of France, and it's really exciting. Javi Hernandez is the Dutch manager now. There's that kind of that freshness to it. Whereas in Lland are in that slightly curious position of having the manager who was largely blamed, rightly or wrongly, for the defeat to Argentina,

he is now in charge of taking the same group of players, all of whom we know are really good. And I guess all you can do in that scenario was try and look for signs of why it might be different next time. but to do that you have to inevitably compare it to what went before and it does I think Charlie's right it does kind of leave them a little bit sort of trapped in this stasis it's an that's an incredible result against Croatia even allowing for poor performance it's the most goals they've stored away from

home against anyone other than San Marino Croatia are a proper you know it's a it's not a gimmee of a game that's a really impressive kind of you know flag in the ground performance but it has to be parsed for what does it mean about the euros in two years time and that's that's an inherently speculative and quite frustrating exercise yeah well let's let's but there is an element i just just just just quickly on that i mean that you know you could look at england in truth and i don't i know because of what charlie said and rory said we're not allowed to look back but in the big proper games against the you know against the big nations and it i mean you might count france i don't count france really

because i don't think that that was now you're talking pressure knockout games yeah i don't France, but I don't count third place playoffs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, no, exactly. But you could view this England team as flat track bullies. Okay. Look, let's bring in the BBC's football correspondent John Murray because he has watched plenty of England down the years.

I enjoyed listening to the commentary, John, on Saturday night, and you clearly enjoyed these surroundings. But in terms of that England performance, and, you know, compared to all the other performances you've seen, were you quite struck by it? Well, I mean, it is one of those where is it how good England were, is it how bad Croatia were, or is it a mix of the two, which it probably is? And Croatia were astonishingly bad, staggeringly bad for that group of players, inexplicably bad. I honestly couldn't get my head around that.

But England, you know, some of the football that they play, the front four, and you will obviously talk about Jude Bellingham, who I thought was excellent in the spells where England were good against Spain, in England. that defeat at Wembley, you know, he's just a colossus in there. And also added to that, Alex Scott, starting for England for the first time, you know, the role that he played in it all as well. And that's why it's such a shame, really, from an England point of view, that he's not going to be able to play in this match against Chequere tomorrow night. But where they are, you know, after that, there were a lot of question marks in my mind over what this window was going to be like for England coming so soon as it did after the World Cup.

but actually after that Spain defeat they've put together the two wins that they've had against Czechia and that on Saturday night against Croatia and if they're able to win again at Wembleet then they'll be almost certainly in the quarter-finals of this competition in March Yeah, well we'll talk a little bit more about Alex Scott

his performance and now his injury in just a second here on the Monday Night Club but as promised let's hear from Thomas Tuchel so here he is on whether he thinks Jude Bellingham is performing at an even higher level than he did at the World Cup. He plays another level, I think. Very reliable, very much involved in almost every attack

and every phase of the game. Very reliable, very mature performances. It's even more economic in the way how he plays. Almost no ball losses. The risk that he takes is well taken. It's in the right moments. He's involved in goals. He's involved in assists.

So, yeah, is highest level. And what about Harry King in an historical context? I know that every national team has its history, but England and Scotland played in the very first international match. So to equal the record of most international caps for that team, it's a little more special, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And it will put him in a very special bracket, rightly deserved so.

So hopefully he stays fit today in training and is ready to go for tomorrow because then we will make it happen. And yeah, he deserves it. And there will be more matches to come. So if he stays fit and he does everything to stay fit, you will see him later on the training pitch. He will be the first one to be out. He will be the first one to lead warm up. That's where he is at the moment. And that's why it's possible for him to put performances out like this.

but it is a very, very special occasion. And hopefully the next one in next camp will make him the record holder. Yeah, that record, John, has stood since 1990s, so nearly for 40 years, Peter Shilton's last cap in 1990. It's going to be a real landmark occasion for Harry Kane tomorrow night at Wembley, isn't it? Well, it is, yes, and likewise in November, assuming that he's involved in both matches. and I did see him at training this afternoon, and it was exactly as Thomas Tuchel said.

He led the England team out, as he almost always does for training, first man under the pitch. You know, that would be it. That would be breaking the record. And as I say, you know, many more players have got many more international caps, but I think to do it for England,

because they did play in the first international in 1872 against Scotland, you know, the longest international history to have played more matches for the men's senior team, for the team that has had a longer history in international football. you know, that is something certainly to be proud of. On Peter Shilton, John, Thomas Tuchel said something

about the impression that Shilton had made on him as a young boy, didn't he? Yes. He said to us that when he was a youngster, he would pretend to beat Peter Shiltern. And he said, And Ray Clemens as well, back to the time when Shilton and Clements for a period of time actually alternated as the England goalkeeper. so that did surprise me, I must say.

That's bizarre, isn't it? Young German lad pretending to be an English goalkeeper. I mean, Chris, taking you back back in the day in the playground. Who would it have been? Well, Notting and Forrest for my team. Yeah. Ali, weren't they? Trevor Francis.

Trevor Francis. Yeah. Well, I wouldn't be a goalkeeper, would it? Probably not. No. Charlie? Well, I'd probably think I was David Deacon for my looks and got a right keen for my Tafton.

So they were probably the two growing up. I would want to be, I would think about Beckham and Waikeen. They were my two favourites coming growing up. Yeah. Rory? Would that be some, Venezuela somewhere? Bear in mind I was growing up in the 1990s, Chris. So I'd have to say Chris Sutton is the person I impersonated in the playground.

The Chelsea year, I spent that. I was 15 then. I spent all year missing chances. That was my... Oh, dear, man. John, we've got to chat a bit of Jude Bellingham too. in a slightly wider context here in terms of, we're going to get onto the subject of footballers

sort of playing their club football abroad and what it's done for them as players and how they bring that into international football. So he's become the most capped England player ever in terms of caps won whilst playing his club football overseas. So he's overtaken David Beckham in that regard. Now Trevor Chalabar has been speaking today. He joined Como in Italy in the summer,

the club West Sess Fabragas is in charge and he's been speaking about the benefits of playing abroad leaving the Premier League leaving your comfort zone where I've been all my life back at home obviously it helped obviously me the times when I went on loan in France

the only reason because obviously I've already done that abroad life and I know what it's like I know what it's needed so for me it wasn't really a hard decision in terms of fitting and well I've fit in really well and yeah like I've really adapted well and I'm loving it now

And how important was the Cess Fabragas factor as well? I think, yeah, the most important for me, he ticked all the boxes. And yeah, he made it transition really easy. And for Manning-Jad knows what direction he wants to go in and what he wants is easy for a player to just obviously make the decision. And when you look at this England squad, there are a number of players now who are playing their football abroad. With your experiences, how do you think that can benefit the national side?

They're bringing all different types of playing. All the types of characters. And yeah, it's jelling really well with the squad. And to be part of that, it's good. So that's Trevor Chalabar talking to Ian Dennis. And John, there's some serious points to be made here. I think you, of all the people here, might be able to indulge me the most with this one.

I always remember, right, watching England beat the Netherlands 4-1 at Euro 96. And the first goal they scored in that game was an Alan Shearer penalty that was won by Paul Ince. And I don't know if people can picture this, listening this, but he was charging forward down the inside right channel. A pass was played into him, behind him. And he used a really clever bit of trickery with his right foot to sort of get the ball in front of him

and then basically sort of tempt Danny Blint into a terrible challenge, which conceded the penalty. And I always remember the line after that people went for was, well, season into Milan, look what it's done for him. It's really improved him. And that kind of, that's always, always stuck with me. But it is interesting, isn't it, to see what it's done, particularly for the likes of Anthony Gordon, I think,

and how quickly it's kind of happened for him since becoming a Barcelona player. Well, I think with Gordon, he's got a real Barcelona swagger now, hasn't he? Having been a £70 million signing by one of the biggest clubs in the world. But as I've said a couple of times over this fortnight, Anthony Gordon is one of only three England internationals who have played for Barcelona. three. But he's there now. So you've got the Barcelona influence and I have enjoyed the Barcelona

Rail Madrid interplay between Bellingham and Gordon for England as well as Bayern Munich with Harry Kane up front. If Chalabar plays tomorrow, obviously that's a Coma player who'll be in the England team. Jarrell Kwanza starting on Saturday by a Leva Kuzen. So you've got a... This is a real sea change for England. I mean virtually the whole time I've watched England over the decades, you might have one or two, but as many as that. But that's the way the game changes, doesn't it? And actually, at the same time, we talk about Spain and France. You know, how many Spain and France players play in the Premier League? So, you know, if you're talking about, if you're talking about does it help that they're playing for foreign clubs? Well, I think you have to

remember how many of the Spain and France players do play in the Premier League. Yeah, I think the difference with the, with the ins, and I remember that, Ali, the, the difference with the with the instinct was that that was the period when Serial was by a mile the best lead in the world and it was a novelty

and almost like an honour that an English player had been chosen to play there. I think the difference now is we don't feel that there's not that sense of kind of intimidation or kind of admiration

even for leads in the rest of Europe. It's not like people are thinking well, La Lideur are so much better than the Premier League. You might think they're a bit better. You might think they're a bit worse, but there's not. There's certainly not that idea of that is the gold standard.

The Premier League is that, you know, everybody talks about the Premier League now. In the best in the world, yeah. The best league. Not least the Premier League themselves, Chris. They'd like to say that quite a lot. So I don't think the benefit is that they're being exposed to a higher level of football. I think John's right that if you've got Camp New kind of applauding your every touch and worshipping you, that probably gives you a bit of swagger.

It's probably proof to Anthony Gordon that he belongs in that rarefied air. I think the other thing, and it's obviously admirable to go and play abroad in any context. The other thing is probably physical, isn't it? That it's a slightly, certainly, maybe not the Bundesleader, but Italy and Spain are certainly slightly slower paces. I think Gordon's a little bit different because he is an absolute pressure machine. So like, you know, I don't think he's gone to Barcelona because the league's a little bit less physical. I think he'd gone because it's Barcelona and he's, it's a wonderful move from. But I just think it's easier for, not easier, but I think it's,

it develops you as a person and as a player, the culture. I think it's different coaching methods, different tactical ideas, trends. And again, I'd imagine them we're all speaking when they come back to England camp, what's your manager doing, what's he doing, what's this. I think there's a big thing. But ultimately, these boys now think there's probably a bit of pathway for them to go abroad to get the opportunity for game time experience. Because they know that these big clubs will come and pay 60, 70, 80 million if they've played enough games

or played it at a really good high level. they've played in Germany, if they've played in Spain. The clubs will come and pay that. I think it's really difficult for young English talent to go and come through these big academies and get into that. I think you have to be a real special player. Sometimes you have to leave a club to then come back to the Premier League and then develop that way.

You know, I think Kane has probably, I think Kane's improved his game's intelligence of terms of how he plays the game. Do you not think he would have scored whichever team he would have gone to, Harry Keen? Ryan? Yeah, but I think Bayern's made him

probably a better sort of player in terms of tactically in terms of his movement, how he links to play when he drops, when he stays high,

I think companies will be amazing for him. And he's playing in a team that wins a lot. So again, there's that personal pride of that, by the way,

Harry King could have stayed at Tottenham for his whole career. And Mike, well, we've seen the last two years that they've got no chance of winning anything. okay, they won that week with Ange, but that's not enough for a player of Harry Kane's quality.

So he's gone to Bayern, and I think his game's gone to another level in terms of how he's performing. Did you ever have a chance to do it, Charlie, to move abroad. No, not really. The back end had an opportunity to go to Australia, but that was during COVID and didn't go for family and that couldn't go.

But it's something I would love to have tried, being able to go to screen. You played in England, Charlie. Yeah. Yeah, that's a foreign country for me, you know what I mean? But no, it's... Charlie's point, Rory, I think, about the sort of wider context of moving abroad and living in a different culture.

I think we use that as a throwaway line, but I genuinely think actually just as a person having to deal with that, move abroad, settle, different culture, different football, obviously, but I'm talking about the stuff away from the thing. I do think that helps you grow as a person. And then you bring experiences, that experience into a dresser. I think that all plays into it. Yeah, no, I can't really add to that, I'll be to be honest.

I think, yeah, it must all be beneficial. That experience of being out, being out of your comfort zone. I think Trevor Chaloba was the phrase that he used. Having to adapt, having to kind of discover more about yourself, when you then go back to whether it's England or whether it's come back to the Premier League at some point in your career, although I'd question whether Jude Belling and will. But all of that is it rounds you more as a person.

It gives you that life experience. That must be an advantage. Even just in terms of coping with pressure, you know, it's easy to kind of scoff at Kane at Bayern and say, well, it's the Bundesleader. Bioners leader. Biont always win the Bundesleaders. But he's playing in Champions League semifinals.

They are some of the most pressurized games you will ever experience. Bellingham and Trent, Anthony Dorden and Rashford before him are playing in Classicos. That is not something, there is a pressure, level of pressure there, that unless you're regularly competing for titles in the Premier League, you probably can't match. I mean, I would say I don't want to shock anybody, but I think the Clacito's a big of a game in the North London Derby. I just think that's probably true.

So you're exposing yourself to these new kind of experiences, and that must be good for you as a player. And also for me as well, who would have thought that Anthony Gordon and Trent Alexander Arnold would have been able to go to Spain and speak flukefully in Spanish? So again, their mindset and their mentality is, yeah, I want to go somewhere that I'm not in a comfort zone, not comfortable just playing the Premier League against the same teams.

They're trying to take their game to another level and different ideas. Listen, we all, we never knew that, until Trent and Anthony Godman done that, nobody knew they spoke Spanish. Of course, maybe friends or whatever, but, you know, that's something they've been practicing and thinking about for a long time. That's fair play to them. To go come out your comfort zone and do something different, I think they should be applauded for it because it's not easy.

because a lot of foreign players come here and we just expect them to adapt, no problem. And it does take time for foreign players to come and get used to the Premier League and all of a sudden. So living away from home in a different environment, you know, if England boys going over there, then it does take them time to settle.

But again, the media speculation away from that maybe might help as well. But the England players, or in the current squad, who are playing abroad, have all got their slightly different stories, haven't they? The reason, as far as I can see, Coonzo going abroad, is he wasn't getting the game time at Liverpool. So he made that choice where he wasn't at the top of his game.

You could argue the same with Trevor Chalibar, you know, that he had a pretty decent career at Chelsea, but, you know, maybe never, never viewed as absolutely top draws. He's made that choice where you can argue Jude Bellingham was always going to be, a star at the shirt retired at Birmingham City of, you know, whatever age and went to Dortmund and, you know, was always going to be a star. I'd slightly, I think it's a good debate and I understand Charlie's point about Harry Kane, but Harry Kane scored goals, as Charlie said, carried Tottenham for years, but he could score, he could score anywhere. And Gordon, the phrase that

John used, I think is really, really apt, you know, the Barcelona swagger. I mean, Anthony Gordon was good at Newcastle, but all of a sudden he's just gone there. You know, the thing is we mustn't get too carried away with this because it's only the early part of the season, isn't it? Don't like getting carried away, do you, Chris? No, I don't like getting carried away.

We have to, you know, wait for a longer period to judge him. But it does look, there does look to be something there where he's just at a whole new level of confidence. I think Bellingham's interesting because he could have come back to England after Dortmund, and he didn't. There were offers there.

He would not have been short of suitors. I think the other thing, there's two of the things that it illustrates that are really interesting. One is, and you'd say Kane and Gordon fall into this pattern particularly, if you're at one of those

kind of upper middle class Premier League clubs and Spurs and Newcastle both fall into that category, they don't want to sell to the big six. They don't want to sell to Liverpool or Man United or Man City if they can help it.

So there is an appeal in finding someone outside of England who will take a point. player. And the second thing is that these English players are really in demand in a way they probably weren't 20 years ago. There is an understanding in Europe a belief that you need a little bit of Premier League dynamism and energy in your team.

And you know, and this is the big change, that there's no difference in technical ability. This is the Monday Nightclub with Alistair Bruce Ball on the Football Daily podcast. It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly. collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret, of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, catching my teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

Wayne Rooney here. If you want to hear more from me, head over to the Wayne Rooney Show on BBC Sounds today. To listen back to chat I have with the likes of Bruno Fernandez and Jordan Pickford. And plenty more stories from the dressing room. Before I saw you guys playing so many times and I was following the club for so long. Just coming to the club was already a dream come true, a privilege. Never thought or dreamed about being the captain of the club. I just wanted to play for it. Portugal has given me two ways later to football.

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It's the Monday Night Club John Murray has got to go Because there is a press conference being held by the Czechier team ahead of the game at Wembley tomorrow night But John we talked Alex Scott, you mentioned Alex Scott briefly Who's had to leave the camp

and go back to Bournemouth, which is a great shame for him. But also there seems to be a sort of a little bit of discord brewing between Bournemouth and England with what's happened there with Alex Scott because it looks like he's going to be out for a while. So can you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah, this was really the big talking point of the day

surrounding England when we found out this morning that Esri Konza and Alex Scott had both withdrawn from this squad. So that's now eight players who have withdrawn from this England squad. Esri Concer, on his own, in this window, had had what Thomas Tuchel called

a bit of discomfort, said he played with it, got worse, missed the game in Prague, given the green light for Croatia, but he got another knock on the court in that match, what Thomas Tuchel called a light trauma. So he was out, and he said it's nothing major

with Esri Conzer, but for Alex Scott, this is a real blow for him, for Bournemouth, Bournemouth are upset about this. And Thomas Tuchel described it as a strange one. He said that he was involved in both training sessions before the match in Croatia,

when Alex Scott started for England for the first time. He'd made his debut on last Tuesday as a substitute. And he said that the medical people, again, had given Alex Scott all of the green lights for this match. But he felt some discomfort in his thigh during the match. He came off, substituted 69th minute, said he could have played the 90 minutes. That's what Alex Scott said to Thomas Tuchel.

And he said the scan that they've had didn't match with Alex Scott's feeling. And Thomas Tuchel maintained there was zero risk taken. He described it again, it's a strange one-off. And he said, at 100%, I would not have taken any risk. And again, later, said, I can stress, there was no risk apparent to me. And again, described it as a one-off. But, you know, it's a real blow for the player. And, you know, it would appear that Alex Scott might not be able to play until December after this.

So we'd miss the November international window as well as all of those matches for Bournemouth. Yeah, and Bournemouth playing in Europe this season as well. John, thank you. John will be commentating tomorrow night on England against Czechia at Wembley. Scotland also in action tomorrow night. We'll come on to them in a bit. They're at home against Slovenia in the Nations League. so you'll be able to hear John in action

describing the game tomorrow night. Chris, that is, it's a massive blow, isn't it, for Bournemouth and for Alex Scott? And in particular, I think because he really impressed, didn't he? He did. Yeah, I think it's a massive shame because of everything. You've said, you know, the reasoning where he looked comfortable and really composed and people have, you know, started to, you know, even talk about,

is he, you know, is he the guy to replace Declan Rice, which is still a big call? But I just feel for him at this moment in time. And, you know, there's always disagreements, isn't there, with clubs and country. Thomas Tuchel, what said, there's a zero percent risk. Well, that couldn't have been accurate, really, because he ended up being injured. but it's just really unfortunate and it sounds, I'm not a medical expert as you will know,

but to be out until December that's an absolute shocker so he would have had the high of playing in the game and then, you know, now he's looking at that spell out. Thomas Tuchel also said there, Rory, that they'd spoken to him a couple of times and he felt fine, but that's an impossible position for him to be in because there's a rare opportunity there

to start for England you're going to give it a go. aren't you? Yeah, and players, even in normal circumstances, aren't always the best judges of their own injuries because they're desperate to play. They certainly, not all of them, but some of them will play through pain

and play right to the edge, just they don't want to lose their place or does they just feel as though they can make it? And as you say, in those circumstances where he's been given this chance to an extent because of the other players pulling out to kind of stake his claim for a spot in the England squad, he's not probably the person

who's best placed to judge how much danger there is, I guess. Yeah, but again, the medical team can't make that decision off the back of just what they think. They have to get your feeling from the player. And if I'm Alex Scott, I'm getting my first cat, I'm not walking off that pitch. You know, like you say, he's worked so hard.

There's a lot going on in terms of personal life, you know, different things. You get that opportunity to play for England. He might ever only get one. Unless he's going to happen, but he may only get one chance. So to come off would be a huge disappointment from him. and again I get the grievance of

ballmuth paying big wages and different things but if you're Alex Scott that's a big moment for him in his career and ultimately we're all talking about how good he played but it's very difficult for him to say hold his hand up and go I'm struggling here because you want to keep playing you want to affect it and ultimately like Thomas said

the symptoms of not showing when the scan comes which I've seen before or I've seen it quite recently with some of my own players that if you don't think it's as bad and you get the scanning all of a sudden six-month injury, you're like, well, that's, you know, sometimes symptoms don't give you that.

So it's very difficult, but good communication is needed now between balls and of England. Charlie, what do you like about him as a player in comparison, say, to the other options that England have in central midfield? So I'm thinking of, you know, well, obviously Elliot Anderson and Declan Rice,

but Cobby Mayneau and others who are competing for that position, what do you make of Alex Scott? Well, I think for him, I watched him up at Newcastle not so long ago, he basically run the middle of the pitch. You know, he wants to get on the ball, he wants to get on the ball, he wants to get things happen, he wants to get forward, he's got good energy,

athleticism to get around the pitch. And, you know, he probably knicks more goals than the other boys, which is probably something that he does. He scores more goals than the other lads. Not that he's a known midfielder, but I just like the way he's got personality and he's brave on the ball. everything seems to go through him at

Beaumath and again like you say it's different types of players that you need to combat each other and I just think that he's another digger on that puzzle that you start to build a good relationship with Elliot Anderson obviously played with each other at under 21

so that's something that Thomas will be looking at as well knowing that yeah coming and I could put him in at him beside the Anderson no problem they've played together they understand each other's games and you're not trying to build a part partnership that's not there. So that's a real positive thing.

But I think it's clear. Just going in a good way. He's more of a, he'll knit things together more than Declan Rice. But I don't think he has Rice's physicality. No, no. That's where they differ. But it's good to, you know,

it's good for Thomas Tugel to have, you know, a player with a bit of a different profile in there. Yeah. Well, I say it's probably, it's also one, isn't it? Chris, where, well, Declan Rice has missed. this window but were he to miss a period of time or Ellie Anderson to miss a period of time or they lose a couple of players in that area, you've got a player there now that looks, you know, and again, you never want to get the bunting out, but who just looked comfortable, didn't he?

Yeah, and it's that trust, it's whether he can step up and relate that club form into international form and he did do. It's why it's such a shame what's happened. Yeah. So England Czechia tomorrow night at Wembley, full commentary here on 5 Live and BBC Sounds. Scotland at home to Slovenia and just going back to the conversation about players playing their club football abroad that we were discussing with England. So the current Scotland squad's got 11 players in it based outside of the UK and actually the only player on the pitch from the start of the game against North Macedonia on Saturday. Our sister Rory. Our sister Rory. Who plays in the SPL. So of the 22 who started the game, Rory, Scotland's win away.

I know, no, this is naughty. He knows. No, he knows his stuff. Chris asked me earlier, and I didn't get this, but he's asking the question for a reason. So out of the 22 players who started the game, Scotland, North Macedonia, only one of them plays their domestic football

in the Scottish premiership. He plays for Macedonia. Correct, Charlie. Myoste, isn't it? Correct. Neovsky. I apologise, Chris. Yeah.

So Charlie, on that one, so we're talking about the benefits of playing your football abroad and then bringing that to the international scene and whatever. And, you know, that clearly is a thing here too. But is it a concern as well, do you think, that in that starting 11,

there aren't players playing their football in Scotland? Yeah, I think it's both. I think we're talking about England, what in place to play. plate the highest level. I want my Scottish players to be playing at the highest level possible. I want them testing themselves against the best experiencing different leagues, different styles. From a Scottish football perspective, you'd have to ask why there's so many young, talented players fear their development is better than abroad or are away from Scottish football, the pathway.

You know, are we developing them, we're playing them early enough? Are we retaining them long enough that the club benefits as well? so there's a lot of questions and I think it's something it's a massive debate talking points in Scotland at a moment we need a better pathway

for our younger players but ultimately have to be good enough but there's not enough Scottish players playing and again we've just sort of change the dynamics of that Craig Mulhall

now coming in change the coaches at different age groups and now it's his job to try and knit that together and get young Scottish players playing men's football as early as possible

and giving them opportunity. I think there's a couple of things though, isn't it? There's no harm in it. Scotland is a small country compared to Italy and France and Germany or whatever in terms of population. There's no harm in having players at Sausolo or at Udenazi

or in the Premier League. Like that is a good thing for Scottish football. If Lewis Ferguson or Lennon Miller, whoever it might be, if they are playing top level football, that's a positive. I think the issue that's... Lenin Miller hasn't played enough football.

And he's a 20-year-old. So that, you know, that's... I'm not saying that's a problem. But, you know, there are all sorts of arguments. He may have been better off, as easy to say, it may have been better off staying at Motherwell, but go on. It's a tricky one, because is it better to stay...

I mean, Motherwell was brilliant last season, but is it better to stay at Motherwell than it is to go and train at a higher level with the Denezian, even not necessarily playing. There is a balance to be struck. The problem that Stratland has in terms of the pathway, I think, is that you get a lot of players going down south because the English clubs see them as relatively cheap.

They can't get players in under the age of 18 from outside the British Isles anymore because of Brexit. So they need players in their academies and they will kind of glom on to any sort of scintilla of talent they can find, whether it's north of the border in Wales, Northern Ireland, I think in the Republic and obviously in England. And those players aren't necessarily getting the chance to kind of get into first-team football.

The Scottish premiership should be full, to be honest, of 18 and 19-year-olds. It should be a development lead in that sense in the nicest possible sense. But the problem is that the English clubs, like the Italian teams with players like Leonard Miller, can pay them so much more money. So why would you stay at Motherwell if you are... you might not play it, Udenazi,

but you probably sort your family out for three generations. That is a powerful... Why is it, why is it, why is it, why is it, or top clubs not buying

these young talents then? You know, I mean, but that's, that's fascinating. And the bottom line is, if you look at, if you look at a lot of the players

within the, within the Scottish squad, and over the years, a lot of high profile players are ones who were not deemed good enough for Celtic or Rangers so really were were forced out to try another pathway and you know players like there was the big debate about John McGinn should have gone to Celtic Celtic didn't want to pay the money so he ended up at Aston Villa Gannon Doak's

slightly slightly different sort of his pathway Andy Robertson for heaven's sake people forget he was at Celtic Aaron Hicke you know as a young player was at Celtic and found a different pathway Louis Ferguson was doing brilliantly at Aberdeen. Celtical Rangers didn't want to sign him. You look at Billy Gilmore slightly differently. He was at Rangers and decided to go down a different route. The really interesting one in all this is Robbie Ur. Yeah, you're fascinating.

Yeah. Now, so he was a, you know, young player at Rangers and had an opportunity to some extent. But I actually thought, you know what, I'm going to do something different here. I'm going to go to Belgium. They offered him a new contract, turned it down. and now he's playing for Seville. And that is sort of whole route. And the fact that he felt, sorry Charlie,

the fact that he felt that that was a better pathway, fair play to him, kudos for him for actually doing that rather than hanging around for sparse minutes at Rangers. I had to actually when I was thinking of manager, the opportunity to sign Robby and another ticket. But again, that's the decision you make coming at the Rangers Academy. me it's, you know, again, if I'm a young Scottish player coming now, why would you want to stay in Scotland when you come to England

getting these unbelievable facilities, you know, playing against the top players in English academies? Like you say, and I'm sure they're going to get rewarded as well. But you say that, but I don't agree. You know, you're talking about going down and playing academy football. Yeah, but again, what I'm saying is, but at the moment there's no pathway in Scotland to come. and play.

They're going to have to come and again, like you say, the trans border between England and Scotland is cheap to bring these Scottish players over because of the EU stuff and the Brexit. And there's so many young Scottish talents in England because, yeah,

I don't see there's a pathway in Scotland. I don't think the clubs are doing enough for these young players. But right, not in all cases, but McPake has started to get a game out, you know, he's playing for hearts, I think, is that James Wilson strangely went down to Tottenham Hotspur,

What on earth was that about He was never going to get rid of James Wilson They were trying to get rid of him You could have bought James Wilson a year ago for a half a million pounds But he went down to Tottenham didn't he and now he's back

And he's involved Because a different manager Because a different manager fancied him Derek didn't fancy him He's left Went to Tottenham Come off the back New manager comes in

And all of a sudden they're keeping him Now they're saying Well going to be in the Scotland squad But that's just how things changing football perception and opinions on it. You know, Derek was trying to get rid of them.

Is that big of Is that big of Scottish football is suspicious of you? No, I just think it's very difficult to get young players into the team. They have to be good enough. They have to give them an opportunity to be good enough as well. And again, James McPake, we talk about

Winterson Johnson had rejection, got released, which kept fighting away and fighting away, and then all of a sudden he's coming to the hearts team. did really well, got his opportunity, and now all of a sudden, you know, he's in and around the Scotland, the team, but he's now got to try and kick on, he's now got to go and put another level on

because people see him around the Scotland squads is that, you know, the expectation gets higher. But for young Wilson, it's very difficult to get involved in front of Shanklin, bragging, people like that. Charlie, just before we move it on, I mean, that's obviously the big picture of the domestic game in Scotland. The first three games under Pocognoli, what have you made of,

of the international team of Scotland? First 45 was difficult. The second half we improved. The game was different against Switzerland. The red card killed the whole game and I was there to watch it. A good win against Macedonia you'd expect us to win.

But, you know, there's another tough game tomorrow night and again, like you say, we have to win that football match. And we know in football, we'll all clamber for something different. But results, again, we'll get a different step. we'll look to try and press a little bit higher.

But again, if you don't win football matches, it becomes a problem and it becomes more difficult. Not heard too much about how he works. Just reading in the media that obviously the lads are liking him, but again, ultimately it takes time to try and implement what you're looking to do. Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Charlie Adam with us this evening. 839 days since beginning his managerial career in the seventh tier with McElwold. Robbie Savage.

is an EFL manager for the first time having taken over at League 1 Peterborough. I'm going to read you this quote from club director Ian Crawford. We could have taken the safe option. I've no doubt that the other candidates would have got us up the table. We'd have been fine. I feel with most of them there was probably a ceiling. With Robbie, we feel there is no ceiling. Robbie Savage joins us on the Monday nightclub.

How about that, Robbie, for a bit of backing? Must be feeling like a million dollars when you hear that. Yeah. Hi, guys. It's nice, yeah, it's nice, but inevitably, I'm going to be judged on results like all managers. You know, we're in 23rd position. The previous two years, 18th and 18th,

they've had some brilliant managers at this football club, but they want to go down a different route in terms of that attacking style of football. And do you know what? I've earned the right. I've done it the hard way through non-league. Listen, lots of managers who have played in the Premier League or our level go straight into league football

without doing the hard yards. You know, I'm not one. So for the skeptics, I've done it the right way. I've made loads of mistakes. I will continue to make loads of mistakes. But, you know, Michael... You shouldn't be saying that, Rob. Yeah, it's a bad pitch, Robbie.

No, I am. No, of course we're going to make mistakes. We're all going to make mistakes. We all make mistakes now in broadcasting. You know, you're never the finished article. You keep asking questions. You keep wanting to learn. But hopefully I'll get a lot of things right.

But again, you know, I hear it from people, maybe how has he got that job? Well, inevitably, I've not gone straight into the league. I've earned the right to get into the league by doing it at step four, at step three, at step two. You know, at step one. Now, I've got a chance to do it at the league. What about this job, Robbie?

Why this one? And obviously, you'll have had a couple of sessions with the team. You know, what do you make of them? What's possible? Well, the DNA of Peter B. United is attacking football. The posh won't have a certain way. They've had a possession-based side over recent years

and the 23rd in the league. The previous year they were 18th. They've had experienced managers who haven't had the success that they would have wanted. So again, when you look at the dynamic of the squad, look at the 4-2-3-1, look at the way they want to play, I think a group of young players where I can improve, I can develop.

You know, I understand millennials, Charlie, my boys at Redding. You know, my Forest Green squad was, you know, very young. Brought the average age of the team down by about four years, decreased the wage budget. So now I'm in a club where they stagnated. They've gone a different way. Now they want to get back to the Peterborough United, which their fans know. And I've just had a fans for them now sold out within five minutes, 200 people. And they just want to see an attacking style of football with this young team

where they can get them on edge of the seats. And if we win games, unbelievable. But if you lose, there's a way to lose at this football club. We're 23rd in the league. They could have had an experienced manager. But I see the same managers being said about the same jobs. I think it's a breath of fresh air that they give a manager who's earned the right, by the way, a non-league level, to have an opportunity.

I've never gone straight into the league. Never. You know, I could have waited. I could have gone down the route of going into a league club in terms of a coach. and then with no manager experience. But I haven't. I've got managerial experience and now voting the right to go into Peterbury United.

Good question, Robbie from Charley here. You've always backed yourself and we can hear that and you're confident and you're buzzing for this opportunity. But what have you discovered about management that's genuinely made you question yourself in terms of this short period that you've had has been a manager?

It's a lonely place, Charlie, you've experienced it. It's a lonely, lonely, lonely place. And I'm self-deprecate. I've learned that you're only as good as your recruitment and your players. We can talk about formations. We can talk about anything you would. You've got to try and get the fan base on board. We know that.

But you're only as good as your players. It's a different game from when we played. Everything about it's different. You know, you just... What do you mean, Rob? By that. So the sports science side, managing players loads and minutes. You know, there's...

many facets are now they're coming to picking the team in terms of you know where players

are at everything the different areas of a club you know I've been very very fortunate in my

time at Michael was over Forest Green and Peter Brad United I've got three owners

who are unbelievable unbelievable they had a great relationship with Dale Vince what a guy

transparent and honest and that is exactly the same so again Chris we were on 606 last night

we heard some of the questions you know I've been very fortunate here that I'll be able to follow my own sword in terms of the team, the way we play, and everything. So again, the game's changed, Chris.

We all know it. We all know that, you know, the biggest thing that's changed is when we played, there was no social media. That is the biggest thing. It's got to a stage now where it becomes so toxic that, you know, for a time, Chris, I would come off it if it wasn't for. as well, though, don't you? You embrace.

But I don't, I just post now, ABB. I rarely engage. Okay. Because we all know in the media, you can create a narrative. So, for instance, when I've got linked with a piece of a job, Peterborough job, there was a lot of criticism. The easiest thing to do is to create the narrative of that person's not wanted there and good ridden from the previous club.

But possibly, the hardest thing to do is that, tell you what, wow, look how many tweets and texts you've got from people being positive, but nobody wants to read that. And after a game, people just want to be negative. And the biggest thing I've got is perception. I've probably people didn't want me because the perception of me as a player.

But I'm never to be. Chris, you know me better than most now. You know, the way my team's play, I'm so excited. This group are underachieving. They're young, the dynamic. I've had two days of training. I'm going to implement my ideas. But what an opportunity we've got. and inevitably in football

we all know we're going to be just on results but I'm a legal manager and it's a brilliant football club with brilliant people enthusiastic passionate people which I am and passionate fans and what a chance I've got

Can I ask you Rob? Can I ask you Rob you don't have to answer if you don't want you normally don't answer but what was the first thing you said to the players? The first thing I said was

obviously I didn't have to introduce myself because they knew I was I said, so what I did, Chris, yesterday was I got them to have a sheet of paper because we're such a young group and we've all been in change rooms where there's some huge characters, there's some people who are quiet, people don't want to speak up, because we're such a young group, I've asked them a question, why do you think you're in this situation both as an individual and as a collective?

So I gave them a piece of paper each and made it anonymous and they all wrote down why they think they are and the club are in this position in the team. And it was amazing the feedback I got because people were honest because when you got a large group of youngsters and we are, I think with the second youngest team in the EFL, they don't want to speak up and they might have something off their chest

but by doing it anonymously, I collected them all together yesterday. There were four key points which I read out to the group today. And that's what I said. Why are you in this situation? Because the quality, the talent, you know, in this room shouldn't be 23rd in the league. And in fact, this group now need a manager.

They need somebody who can manage them. I'm not a great coach. Yeah, I don't want to be a great coach. I've got great coaches around me. You know, I got people who are better than their jobs than me in terms of analysis, sports science, coaches, but I'm a good manager. And time will tell if I'm going to be a very good one.

I actually got two players I've actually worked with Vernon Asara and Carl Johnson so you know two good boys and you know Seagies a little bit different, he's got more experience but Vernon's the one with lightning pace, play off a side, plays in nine, terrific kids you know we actually just showed him in the summer to Peterborough and great opportunity for him so look after him because he is a good boy and living away from home for the first time so it'll be interesting see how he does and you know I've been speaking to quite regular last few weeks and he's been enjoying it

but obviously coming back from an injury, which is not great. But I think Peter Brad, when the deal happened, I felt that Peterborough was the right club for him to progress as a footballer. And, yeah, just good luck with him because he's a top kid. He was scorer of the year, wasn't he twice in a row, Charles? Yeah, yeah, he scores. He's lightning quick, but just, let's say, needs a wee bit of an arm around him.

Again, Charlie, I understand. I understand young players, because my son, Charlie, moved away for the first time to Redding, the emotion involved in that being away for your family you'll get lonely, you'll get homesick. So again, because we've got such a young group because of Charlie, I understand the narrative, I understand the situation you own players are in.

So again, I can relate to them. You know, I'm a modern day manager with a great work ethic and I'm an emotional guy, but what I do, they've got a manager who will give them everything, protect them, protect my staff, and I'm all for them. And listen, I know for a fact that on the sideline, you know, I'll take everything for me,

my team and my staff because that's the kind of person I am. Robby, you mentioned that it can be lonely. You mentioned the kind of the stuff you have to deal with on social media, the criticism, that the results kind of as soon as they turn, everyone turns on you. And you say you've done it the hard way, which you have. Why?

You had a really successful playing career. You had a really good career dealing with Chris on the radio, which is, I mean, that is enough for anybody, to be honest. That is, you know, you've been through it. You've had to work with Chris. Why? Why do it the hard way? Because I've always done the hard way.

And I got told at Manchester United, I wasn't good enough, Class of 92. Then went to play in 346 Premier League games. I was told on the radio, you know, I wasn't good enough. Got more Sony goals than all of you put together. As a manager, you know, as a manager, I told as a sport director, when I was at Macclesfield, well, he picks the team. I put my money where my mouth is, broke all records. in that league, went to Forest Green,

give an owner a club back, that's what he wanted, that was the remit, reduced the wage, budget, but young players. And now, can I manage in the league? People say I can't. People say, you know, I might fail, but I tell you what, I want to prove people wrong. Always done it.

I've got my fighter, you know, but what an opportunity. I know how difficult is to get a job. Listen, some ex-players, some current players might be saying, how on earth did you get that job? Well, the data doesn't lie now. There's a data-driven, you know, modern world

where players are bought on data, managers get jobs on data, and our data at Forest Green and McIntyreville was one of the highest in the top five divisions. The XG differential was one of the highest with the fourth last year at Forest Green. Rory loves that. Yes.

So, first league game, Rob, is a way to, I mean, it's a cracker, isn't it? It's away to Leicester on Saturday, 3 o'clock. So 5 Live will obviously have a reporter there. Peterborough fan David's got in touch sent us an email into the Monday nightclub and says, Dear MNC, if Robbie wants to endear himself to the posh crowd,

he has to make sure he pronounces NEN as in the local river correctly. It should rhyme with Ben and not rhyme with Bean. So it's Nen not Nene. Good luck, Robbie. I've called that Nene, you know. Have you? Well, there you go. Did you know that was spelt? Yeah, the NEN, yeah.

The NEN. The NEN. You didn't know that. But what a game. But what a game. What a game for my players. What a game for my players? my players to go embrace it. And you know what? I hear managers saying, how do you stop the opposition? How good of the opposition? Well, I'm going to be a manager who

says, what about us? What can we do? How can we win? Let's go out and try and win the game. You know, my philosophy will be, if it's 1-1, let's go and try and win the game. You know, because at that point of the game, the way I want to play, if it's 1-1 and you go for it and you lose it on the counter, you don't lose in a point at that stage. Let's talk about us. Let's be us. Let's go and try and win games and do it the right way. and if it doesn't work out like that, do you know what? You know, I'll still be the best voice on 606.

Have you enjoyed a bacon sandwich, Rob, since you've left Forrest Green? You said that one yesterday. You're boring now. You said yesterday. Robbie's job is to try and stop the opposition. I've got to try and stop Robbie talking because we've come to the end of the Monday nightclub.

Robbie, good luck with it. You know, I really hope it goes well for you and Peterborough United. Thank you very much for coming on the show. Chris, thank you. Charlie, thank you very much indeed. See you soon. And Rory, thank you. Thank you. As always, probably some more Manchester City articles to write before we get back into the... I suspect so.

Premier League action at the weekend. Must mention that as well, actually. 4.30 kickoff on Sunday at Amfield. It's a five-live commentary. That is Liverpool against Manchester City. That is it for the Monday nightclub. On the next episode, Kelly Summers will have reaction from England against Chequia. I'm Steve Bracknell, assistant manager of Sunday League powerhouses, the Royal Oak FC.

And I'm back in changing room at Royal Oak for a new season of Games Gone, the podcast that takes you back to the grassroots of the game. With my colleague Paul Sampson and Bob the Bucket, and this season we're aiming for promotion to Division D of the Sheffield Sunday Imperial League. Games Gone, the Steve Bracknell podcast. Listen on BBC Sounds.

It felt like everything I believed in was suddenly collapsing. This is the story of an Islamic boarding school in Indonesia with a dark secret, of the school's head teacher. This was someone I respected above anyone else. And the investigation led by students, he's trying to silence. If this is leaked to the media, I'll be destroyed. This is World of Secrets, Catching My Teacher. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you can.

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