Football Daily - MNC: FIFA's climbdown, Vinicius to Arsenal and Newcastle's new era

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

Andros Townsend, Don Hutchison and The Athletic’s Adam Crafton join Aaron Paul to talk FIFA, Gianni Infantino and transfers.The BBC's Sports Editor Dan Roan gives the latest on Infantino's future, less than a week after his plans to sell stakes of FIFA competitions to private investors were announced. Are his days numbered or can he fight back to retain power after a humiliating week? Plus, you'll hear from Laura McAllister, a UEFA vice-president.In the transfer window, what's happening at Newcastle after Eddie Howe's departure? BBC Sport's Ciaran Kelly joins as the panel discuss where the club are at given the departures of key players alongside their manager.And can Arsenal really buy Real Madrid star Vinicius Jnr, and where would that signing rank in Premier League history for superstar transfers?Timecodes: 00:45 What's the latest on Infantino and FIFA? With Dan Roan 05:20 Laura McAllister on FA Wales' decision to withdraw support for Gianni Infantino 10:00 Is Infantino still courting Trump, and how can he stay in power? 14:55 Why has it taken this to cause opposition to Infantino? 16:15 What was the feeling around Infantino's controversies for those actually at the World Cup? 23:00 What state are Newcastle United in, will Bruno Guimares leave to Arsenal? With Ciaran Kelly 39:45 Spurs boss Roberto de Zerbi promises a 'bomba' signing! 42:25 Can Arsenal really sign Real Madrid star Vinicius Junior and how big a move would it be in Premier League history?

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. In the Range Rover Sport, performance is more than a promise. It's something you feel on every drive. With the choice of powerful mild hybrid and plug-in hybrid engines, Range River Sport responds instantly, bringing unbridled power and precise handling. It's a perfect balance. Explore more atrangerover.ca. Throughout this World Cup, David Beckham has been everywhere.

In the stands, in commercials during ad breaks, sorry, hydration breaks, Which is wild when you consider he was once the most hated man in Britain. I turned around to a fan and he was screaming about my wife and about Brooklyn right to my face and wouldn't even look away. How do you go from that to being a billionaire? That's next time on Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts. This is the Monday Nightclub on the Football Daily Podcast. Welcome along everybody then to the Monday Nightclub in the company, the former Spurs, Newcastle.

England winger Andros Townsend, football writer for the athletic, Adam Crafton, and the former Liverpool, Everton, and Scotland midfielder, Don Hutchinson. Loads of focus on transfers this evening, chap. So very quickly from each of you, just want the name of one club who has had the best window so far. Don, I'll go to you first.

Spurs. Adam? I was going to say Spurs as well. I've given Don has. I'll say Chelsea. Andros? I thought I was going to be too biased, but I'm going to also say Spurs.

Oh, fair two for Spurs, one for Chelsea. there you go straight away, London Derby win. We will talk transfers all the way through until 9 o'clock tonight in the company of those three. First up, though, we begin with the latest with FIFA. The FAA are set to join their Welsh counterparts in officially withdrawing support of Gianni Infantino's presidency of FIFA amidst the fallout from his scrap plans to sell stakes

in FIFA competitions to private investors. The BBC's Sports editor, Dan, Rohn, is joining the studio. Dan, good evening. I mean, the FAA is one of the most. powerful football governing bodies out there. How significant is their withdrawal, and will it be a case of dominoes now falling? Well, I think we'll certainly expect a few more

to go in the coming days, Aaron. But look, I mean, it does seem to sort of ratchet up the pressure, doesn't it, on beleaguered Gianni Infantino as he clings to power at FIFA as president. But they're not the only ones, as you've said, the Welsh FAA were first today. Already we'd have the Finnish Football Association, the Swedes, the Serbians have done the same.

But I think it is fair to note. that what this is is effectively reinforcing what we already knew. It's official confirmation, I guess, of the statement that UEFA, who obviously represent them all, put out at the weekend where they made clear that they'd lost faith in Fantino. And it is restricted at this stage anyway, at least, to European countries. And it's not all of them either. I'm sure there'll be more, but it is really important that Europe remains unified over this. But then that's not enough. They need more international associations and from other parts of the world to join them, this rebellion is to be successful, that's certainly the sense, and they acknowledge that privately.

But nonetheless, I think symbolically, yes, it is just sort of ramping up the pressure, but I think there's other tactics that may be potentially more significant. Infantina can stand for re-election, though, and a final term as president in March next year, is he likely to retain enough support to last that long? And if support continues to fall away, what would it actually take to remove him or potentially replace him as president? Well, I mean, look, he does retain some support. That may surprise people, but because of the record amounts of money that have been generated since he came to power a decade ago, and obviously we just had the most lucrative, not just World Cup, but sports event of all time. That has enabled FIFA to redistribute more money than ever

to national associations and the FIFA system enables that to be rewarded with political loyalty. And we've seen that support be expressed by certain countries in Africa and we know there's loyalty, a power base in South America as well. And indeed, some countries in Asia have come out in support of him, despite all of the controversies, despite the huge outcry over this particular plot and many controversies before that as well, which we can get into. So it's not as if it's a formality that he's going to stand down or be voted out. I think there's a real battle on here. Clearly you have UEFA, clearly you have Conquercaf, which represents countries in North and Central America and the Caribbean as well, coming out very much against him. The Asian

Confederation clearly expressed its opposition to that plan, but they haven't yet effectively called for him to stand down. So I think there's no doubt that's a really key battle-crowned Asia to determine which way this may go. In terms of how it may play out, I mean, barring him resigning or stepping down, which, given how to find he's been in the past, and we know the efforts that he's currently making behind the scenes to try and lobby and retain support, I think that does seem at this stage anyway unlikely. There are potential avenues for this rebellion to go down. I mean, one is to try and get an emergency meeting of the FIFA Council.

Now, to do that, they would need 19 of the 37 members. Could they get to that number right now? That's far from certain, if you do the maths. And even if that did happen, what would then happen? Would it just simply be an expression of vote, perhaps, of no confidence? Would that force him to stand down? they could try and get an emergency congressional meeting of the entire family of FIFA and then have a vote to no confidence.

That would require 106 of the 211 members. I think there's no doubt when you talk to sources close to this revolt, they want to strike now. They don't want Invantino to have time to try and express contrition and retain support in his power bases around the world. So they feel this is an opportunity. I think what we may see, we'll talk about this legal letter. I think more tactics of that kind.

You know, we've been told this evening by sources close to it that, you know, there may be a sort of lack of cooperation with FIFA meetings going forward in an attempt to just isolate him further, use leverage. Whether that's enough for him to feel the time has come for him to stand down remains to be seen. But it appears delicately poised right now. Let's hear from the UEFA Vice President, Laura McAllister,

who's spoken to BBC Sport today. I think we were of mind that things had gone too far, that this wasn't just an isolated incident last week with the proposal to sell off to private equity, the FIFA crown jewels of the World Cup for men and women. We felt this was more cultural and rooted in the problems of leadership and culture within FIFA. So hence our decision to withdraw the letter of support. And I'm 100% behind that and very proud that we were the First Nation to come in and say this is not acceptable. Because I think we can't keep fighting fires.

can't keep dealing with crises that are not of our making and there are thrust upon us as the FFE was last week. And from the conversations you've had with other members, do you believe that other countries, that many other countries will follow suit? I hope so, yes. I mean, look, you know, we're not the only ones who feel very strongly about the existential threat to the game that was posed last week. We've got colleagues across Europe who've stood strong against the FIFA Peace Prize, some of the ethical issues that were threatened during the Qatar World Cup. So, of course, you know, there will be federations meeting as we speak to make their own decisions. But I think for us in Wales, we felt that it was very clear cut that we needed to make a really

strong stance against what's gone on. And that it wasn't just about that issue. It was about a whole series of interventions that have really undermined the principles that should underlie football. That's the voice of UEFA Vice President Nora McAllister, who spoke. to BBC Sport today. Dan, you've obtained a copy of the letter UEFA sent to FIFA outlining their intention to pursue legal action. Can you give us the key points from that document? Yeah, sure. I mean, FIFA was warned by UEFA's lawyers that the governing body of Europe was

actively considering legal action, arbitration or regulatory complaints arising out of and in connection with, it said the FIFA Ford Enterprise Plan or the FFFE plan that had been put forward, in which these lawyers said was fundamentally incomprehensive. compatible with the proper governance of football. Now, I should say this letter was first reported by the Telegraph, and it named 18 FIFA executives who it said should retain data documents and messages as potential evidence. Named on that list were, of course, Infantino,

but also Arson Venger, FIFA's head of global football development, Matthias Grafstrom, the Secretary General, and indeed Kevin Lamor, the chief operating officer, who, of course, on Friday, claimed that he and a number of other officials had been deceived in relation to this project. And UEFA also warned in this letter that any destruction or concealment of evidence related to the project may be considered destruction of evidence which could result in a claim for compensation. So it's pretty tough language. And I think, you know, that will be awkward for some of those officials named.

You know, again, whether it sort of acts as leverage, we know whether there's a sense that UEFA could use this to sort of almost say behind the scenes, look, you know, step down or we'll pursue this action is really interesting. I think, as I said, it won't be the only tactic that's employed in the coming days. How should we expect this story, this saga to start unpacking? What are the key moments next? Well, I mean, one thing I'm intrigued by is to see whether the US President Donald Trump says anything about it. He's said very little so far, but I know he's currently talking, isn't he, in Washington? Whether he's asked about that, we'll have to see. But there have been suggestions today that Infantino was due to hold talks with members of Trump's cabinet.

Perhaps the Secretary of State, Rubio, in attempt to perhaps shore up his position, this was denied by FIFA and the US State Department today. But clearly, given the involvement of Trump's, the brother of Trump's son-in-law, Joshua Kushner, who's obviously the brother of Jared Kushner, whose thrive eternal fund was expected to lead this group of investors, it's inevitable and alongside the fact that obviously Infantino had made such efforts to cozy up to Trump in recent times. there is this sense, perhaps, that he may well appeal to Trump in a way to try and help his cause. We'll have to see how that unfolds, whether it comes to pass or, indeed, whether Trump has perhaps abandoned him after the World Cup. But certainly Trump spoke in glowing terms, didn't he repeatedly? And Invantine was a regular guest of his at the White House and other places too. So we'll have to see whether that is a strategy that he tries to go down. But as I say, it's a fascinating situation.

And we wait to see whether or not in the coming days, there's any other revelations or resignations that may just mean that Infantino is more isolated and considers his position, but at the moment it seems he's up for the fight. Dan, thank you so much. Adam, you're in the United States right now. Is Infantino still courting Donald Trump a case of not reading sort of the room? Well, or, I mean, to be fair, as Dan says, kind of everyone involved has denied that for now, but clearly he is turning to some of his safe places at the moment.

And if you look at the people who have come out and supported him, over the past few days, you had a letter of support for Morocco, who are still trying to host the 2030 World Cup final. And you then also have Qatar, who are obviously the host of the 22 final that he's close to. And Trump obviously is another person that he's close to. So he's turning to those who he trusts and feels he can depend on. Lebanon, his wife, I think is Lebanese. He's got a Lebanese citizenship, have come out supporting him.

So he's turning and kind of stretching and kind of pleading really for support from any quarter that will provide it at the moment. But there's not too many places that are prepared to come out publicly and back him. But, you know, we should remember he got over 200 letters of support for next year's election by the end of the World Cup. He doesn't really need many people to do much more. What UEFA need is people to withdraw that support. And so far you've had a few European nations do it, but not all of them. So really the onus is on his enemies to gather up that momentum. How much further can he scrap, though?

Because again, this is a firefighting mission from Infantino now trying to rally up support. How much further can he go? Well, I've not had any information over the past few days to suggest that he was considering resigning. All the talks that were taking place at FIFA on Friday were about how can he backtrack from this plan while staying in place as president. you know, if you look at that statement, he talks about what they'll do together moving forward, wanting to bring people together. He's been sharing today on Instagram messages of support from kind of ex-players like the Brazilian Ronaldo. So, you know, I think it is a case of any kind of coup, which is basically what this is becoming, requires momentum. And it's interesting. There's

been a lot of talk and kind of giddiness today about England pulling away from him and Wales pulling away from him, Sweden, Serbia. But there was a really really, really. interesting statement from Switzerland. Switzerland basically saying they're concerned, that they've had some discussions internally, some discussions externally, but at this stage, they're not going that step further in terms of withdrawing their support for him. What they are doing is asking him for a one-on-one meeting to talk about their concerns. Now, if even the European bloc isn't completely unanimous, I think that will be a concern for UEFA. And then you've also got Conkercaf, which is run by the FIFA Vice President, Victor Montagliani,

who clearly has his eyes on Gianni's job, which is kind of a subplot to much of this at the moment. But, you know, his federations, not yet withdrawing support. So those are the steps that need to take place. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it's not happened yet. Do we think, because there's obviously a FIFA re-election next year, I think it is, do you think this is sort of like a last chance at a cash play from Infantino to get some money before somebody else potentially walks in?

Well, he's already paid over $6 million a year. So he's doing pretty well. I know that he looks at some of the other sports league commissioners in the United States and particularly. You know, the NFL, Roger Goodell, gets tens of millions, maybe even over 100 million in certain years. And I've spoken to people who say that Infantino has been kind of obsessed with what others earn

in almost this sense that, you know, But given that soccer, football, is bigger globally than NFL or NBA or anything like that, that he probably should be paid a bit more, in his view, relative to other sports. Now, there are people who are arguing that this idea to privatise FIFA's competitions, the World Cup, Club World Cup, Women's World Cup, licensing, all of that stuff, would have had a chairman or commissioner-style role, which as a commercial entity may have enabled him if he was to take that role to earn a lot more money.

But now that proposal's off the table, I'm not sure this is even about earning more money for Infantino anymore. It's about maintaining what he's currently earning because he could lose his job. Adam, why now? Why is there so much outrage and vitriol now when, I mean, you think about all these sort of different factors that have built up to this. I mean, like hosting a World Cup in winter in Qatar, the reported deaths of migrant workers building the infrastructure. Donald Trump being awarded a FIFA Peace Prize, the most expensive. tickets in World Cup history. You've got travel issues in America. Hydration brakes. The unprecedented suspension of Christiana Ronaldo's violent conduct ban, a half-time show,

totally ignoring FIFA zone rules about a 15-minute break. I'll probably volley Foller and Balagan in there as well, just a half inch in there as well. But why now? Why this? I think that's a great question. It's something that, you know, at the moment, the only people from UEFA who are really talking, a Laura McAllister, who's fantastic when she talks. from Wales and Lisa Klavenos from Norway. But I think there is a question for a lot of these European federations, the North American, Central American guys as well who are talking about maybe withdrawing support.

Hang on, why did you send letters of support for this guy as of about two weeks ago? What is it about the last 10 years that made you want to support more of this? And I think that's a really fair question. In terms of what's different now is, I think they just describe this plan to privatise the World Cup and to do so in a way where nobody was consulted.

You know, you even had FIFA's own CEO, Kevin Lamour, and his own advisor, Infantino's own advisor, Carlos Cordero coming out and saying they were blindsided by this, that they didn't support it, that they were opposed to it. And then when you put on top of that, that it was going to somebody with the surname Kushno and those obvious connections through family with Donald Trump, that was always going to be a Tinderbox.

that could explode. And I think that's what you've seen here. It's kind of the straw that's broken the camel's back. Andros, Don, you were both in the United States during the tournament. What was the feeling around Infantino, the controversies? Was it kind of brushed under the carpet? Was it a case of, well, we're here now, and let's get on with it and enjoy the actual spectacle

and the football and the tournament? What was it like? I was quite impressed with the expansion because I was curious beforehand to see how it would work. In the end, I was impressed because we had stories like Cape 30. We had stories like Haiti. So emerging nations got the chance to play in a World Cup. From a sporting point of view, it was fantastic.

The whole balligan red card scenario, that's where it all got very, very messy. And listening to Adam and listening to Dan explain exactly what's going on, which is far above my pay grade. It feels like, to me, Infantino's now, or he feels as though he's got too much power and he feels as though he can literally do what he wants. Now, his PR team, I would imagine he's got one, seem like an absolute shambles because they should be telling him to row back and step back and apologise. He's took it too far. And I think from the wider aspect of what's been going on now is I think transparency is key.

But in terms of me being on the ground in America, I found the whole sporting event fantastic. My culture of playing in England has been playing at likes of Anfield and Gooderson and Old Traffant and legendary football stadiums. being in Atlanta and being in Boston and seeing these NFL stadiums full with so much color, vibrancy and noise coming through the TV watching it over America, I was well impressed. I agree with Don. I think once the, sorry, I think once the game started, it was just amazing to being an amongst passionate fans of South Americans, Colombians, Argentinians, Curacao in their first tournament. It was just about the football and the spectacle.

And like Don said, it was only when the Balagan sort of the red corner. card which were brought back into the political side of it. But was it, and just, when you think about, when you think about the price of transport to and from grounds, you think about the water situation that was brought up where supporters weren't allowed to take bottles of water into grounds, the ticket prices in general, was it really sort of brushed under the carpet or did we just forget about it because we enjoyed the game? Yeah, I think on the ground, obviously, I'm in a fortunate position.

I never had any of those issues. but even on the ground and experiencing the fan festivals with the Colombians, the Argentinians, Germans, Curacao, like I mentioned, I didn't really feel any of that uncertainty and disapproval and anger. There was no real protests outside the stadiums, no protests inside the stadiums other than the hydration break. So I think everyone just sort of, once the game started, everyone just got on with it and just took it for what it was, which was a World Cup, which was an amazing, World Cup on the pitch. I don't know what I saw less of your, your Pat lunches on social media, or Gianni Infantino popping up at every single game across the United States. It was, it was absolutely wild. Does he have the stomach to fight for his presidency, Adam? Oh, I think so. I think so. I mean, without kind of making it kind of too broad and important, I think one of the things we've learned

really about the world over the last 15 years is, you know, if a leader can act without shame, you know, they tend to get on, right? Like that's something we've kind of seen in lots of different countries. And I think he's another kind of example of that. And that's how he's kind of brushed off a lot of these controversies over time. I think the guys are right. You know, for those who were, you know, working at the World Cup or fortunate enough to be able to afford the tickets,

of course it was fantastic. You know, if you put all of the best players in the world in one place for, you know, 39 days or whatever it was, you're going to get great games, great goals, great memories, and great TV coverage. And commercially, it was the most spectacular success for FIFA. And zero trouble. Adam, zero trouble.

I didn't get the sense it was any trouble anyway. Like Andrew said, I thought all the countries coming together, uniting in the World Cup and enjoying themselves, I thought it'd come across with the TV screens really well. Yeah, and I guess that is the kind of the image. I mean, we should remember that, you know, four of the countries who were competing, their nationals from those countries, Ivory Coast, Senegal, Haiti, Iran,

weren't allowed to travel to America, their fans, for the tournament. But this is what I mean, sort of the product that is packaged up and so much happens within a World Cup that you kind of, and nobody's kind of wrong to do this. It's just you get swept away with it, right? We all do to a certain extent. But I don't think anything that's happening now is a criticism of the product of the World Cup. It is a criticism of governance and leadership, stuff that's a little bit more dry.

But I think there was quite a lot of outrage over the balligan decision. And then when it emerged that Trump had made a phone call, you know, that felt very, very unusual and unprecedented. Because normally what we see with kind of FIFA decisions or FIFA stuff is it's kind of the stuff of like boring executives and money and business and all of that stuff. it doesn't normally infringe on what happens on the field. It doesn't normally impact whether a team has a better or worse chance of winning a game. And actually, by allowing certain players to play, it did. And I think that's where the kind of real anger over that decision came from. That was well past the mark, wasn't it, Aaron?

You know, when you get in the US president involved and Infantino involved, trying to allow Balligan to play the next game, it just felt as though what you're watching here. Like, you know, the red card should never have been a red car, but that's a side issue. But what are we watching political layer to, you know, to witness, you know, the likes of Donald Trump getting involved for a player, then not to have a suspension to play in the next game for America.

It felt as though why this is a big story. And it actually then led to, sorry, Andrews, super quick. It led to other countries then making slightly mad appeal. So, at least say, for example, got a booking against Paraguay for France. There probably wasn't a booking. But all of a sudden, we saw teams appealing against. against yellow cards. We saw England with Jarrell Kwanso,

which was pretty much a straightforward red card, appealing. So once you create that precedent, it becomes very, very messy and you kind of start to lose control of your own tournament to a certain extent. I think, Adam, I think we're very lucky that USA didn't go on to beat Belgium in that game. Because if they

did, there would have been such a bigger problem about the integrity of the world's biggest competition. So, yeah, I think a bullet was dodged in the end. Okay, that's enough football governance for one evening. Let's turn our attention to the Premier League. Eddie Howe left Newcastle United on Thursday last week.

Later that day, BBC Sport reported that captain Bruno Gimerich was expected to join Arsenal. However, it does appear that the Brazilian has now joined up with his teammates in Spain for their pre-season tour. And Newcastle United's reporter Kieran Kelly joins us now. Kieran, good evening. Do we know the latest on Bruno? Good evening, Aaron. Good evening, guys.

Yeah, well, as far as we understand, the clubs are now in formal talks. There has been a claim that Newcastle have rejected an opening bid from Arsenal, and the player himself is at the training camp in Spain. So I think this one's going to run a little while longer. Arsenal, as has been reported previously, our confidence still of Simon Guameras. So whether this turns into an Alexander-Ezek-style saga, I'm not so sure. I think we should have a resolution one way or the other,

a lot more swiftly than that. Is there any form of link between, you know, sort of that possible probable Gimar-Eich departure and Eddie Howe's departure? I wouldn't not say it's the reason, but it feeds into the wider context around his decision to step down. If Gwemar is to go, that remains. And if, of course, Newcastle have lost four key players

in less than a year. And that has a huge rebuilding job for any measure, let alone one who's been there four and a half years as Eddie Howell was. And I know the phrase all in is kind of, I'm overused in football, but anyhow, he really isn't obsessive in the way he works, his intensity, how much he gives to any job, and to really, you know, for these young players coming in now, to have that energy, to develop them, to give them the time to give him his all on the training pitches, it's going to take time this route Newcastle have gone down.

I think this season, this upcoming season, isn't going to be one where it's all going to come together for them. And sort of Eddie Howes sort of felt that it's in the club's best interest that he is to step away from it and allows someone with fresh ideas and energy to come in. I think it has echoes actually of his final summer at Bournemouth. Basically, he privately had a few warning signs that was this the time to go and he kind of ignored them and he plowed on and Bormitt that end up being a really painful end, they were relegated. And I think rather than letting his legacy sour potentially, rather than, you know, pressure to build if they had a tough start of the season, he's decided to step away.

Paint the picture of this transfer window for us with regards to Newcastle United on missing out targets, missing out on targets quite publicly and to other Premier League teams to obviously the situation with Eddie Howard departing with the season, what, three weeks away? Yeah, I think last summer was particularly turbulent. You know, you look at the players they missed out on then, Benjamin Sheshko, Joe Pedro, Hugo Ekiteke, James Trafford. And that's, sort of informed their approach to this summer. They've gone for players who are young, 20

and under on the continent, mainly. The only exception has been a 24-year-old and he's a goalkeeper in Lukashornishek. So they have, I suppose, tried to learn lessons from that in going for players that maybe aren't necessarily quite yet on the radar of what I'd call the established order, you know,

your Manchester cities, your Liverpools, your Arsenal, those clubs, maybe aren't prepared to take the sort of calculated risk on those sorts of players yet, and Newcastle have, you know, you look at Alagi Bamba, midfielder, who only broke through at Monaco, really last season. Sean Stur, 18-year-old at I-X, he only broke through at IX properly last season. They've only made, you know, 15, 16, 17 competitive starts at each of those clubs. At Newcastle have put the money down on them.

And along the way, they have missed out. They have missed out on Yon Manzambi, who went to Aston Villa. He was a key target. It's understood he wanted to play Champions League football. So that was a big draw at Aston Villa. And Victor Munoz was another key target in early blood. who Newcastle felt they had the deal in place and he ultimately went to Liverpool.

So I don't think it's been why the turbulence are missing out that it was last summer, but when you couple in the key departures they've had in Anthony Gordon, Sandra Tunali, and if Bruno Gramares is to go, that's a lot of change. So are you saying this change of sort of philosophy to go for the young hungry player

who is a bit cheaper? You're saying it's directly linked to the fact that in the previous years, they have been dining at a bigger table and trying to compete with the best in this country in terms of signing players. Is that change of approach due to the frustration of the previous seasons?

I think it's definitely an impact. You have to remember last summer. They didn't have an executive structure in place. So Eddie Howe was effectively, you know, almost doing the deals as well. He was picking up his phone as well as working on the training pitches. They've since appointed a sporting director in Ross Wilson and chief executive and David Hopkinson.

And I think the way the financial rules are, if you miss out on Champions League football like Newcastle did, they finished 12 last season. trading's become so important and coupled with trading they have to look at those players as you say who are maybe a little bit cheaper than the players they were looking at last summer you know i don't think you're going to see a situation where newcastle spent 69 million pounds on a player like they did in nick volta mattomada last summer they have to do it a bit differently and we've seen how brighton have done this we've seen how brentford have done this we've seen how borrmeth coped with losing you know four or five key players last summer the benefit of smart recruitment and good coaching they they propel themselves up the table and i think that's how newcastle have really gone about it Kieran, with regards to the recruitment style and the start, where is this direction to change come from? As it come from the very top, is this a Ross Wilson driven project? Because six months ago, David Hopkins and the CEO said we can be in debate about sort of, you know, being the world's top club by 2030. And right now, they're shedding everyone.

Yeah, they don't have much time, do they? It's, that's going to come around very quick. Even at the time, you know, I felt even if these financial rules weren't in place, you would have to get every decision right. I mean, every decision right to be in the situation where you could fulfill such a bold ambition. I think, yeah, the change of approach, yeah, I think when Ross Wilson came in, he's very clear he recognized that.

I take data, for example, Ross Wilson, a bit at Nottingham Forest, obviously another big club. But Newcastle's data operation, their artificial intelligence was behind what Nottingham Forest was when he walked in. And you have to remember Newcastle were fresh from Caulfine for the Champions League.

They not long ended a long way to win Silverware. by winning the League Cup. And that maybe paints a picture of just there are ways this club has moved forward very, very quickly since the takeover in what's coming up five years now. In other ways, I think there's a lot of areas that I've needed improving. And I think after years of spending and not really balancing the aggregate with sustained trading, it's felt very dramatic and radical this shift. But I suppose for years, they have brought in players like Alexander Isaac, Bruno Grimeras,

Anthony Gordon, and improved them and sold them on. maybe this is just a touch down, maybe in the more extreme end of things, in, as I said, going for those 18 to 20 euros on the continent. See, Aaron, this is where it's difficult for me being a Newcastle fan to try and have a look at this with my heart and my head at the same time because I genuinely felt 18 months ago Newcastle, with the players that they had under Eddie Howe, I genuinely felt they were pushing to try and get second or third in the Premier League

and trying to get closer to the top dogs. The team that they had at the time before PSR sales was one, position for me away from challenging the top three and that would have been a goalkeeper position. So Nick Pope was the number one. I felt as I was stronger number one would have been needed. You look at the team from there and you go Liverment, Malik Chow, Lewis Hall, excellent back four, midfield three of Elliot Anderson, Bruno Gimerich, Tanali, best midfield three in the country for me if they had to play together. Yucuba Minte got sold because of PSR, Alexander Isak, Anthony Gordon. That team to me off the back of a trophy win felt.

as though it's getting close to the top three. I was told probably at the end of the season, a couple of weeks into the sort of World Cup, that their model was going to be, no one will come into Newcastle for over 50 million quid this summer. It was going to be 25 to 40 million quid. That was going to be their remit. But the sales now are just hampering.

And the head then kicks in and goes, OK, Newcastle now have demanded top dollar for the likes of Anthony Gordon, who left in good terms, by the way. I must be said, Alexander Isart, they got $125 million from Tanali close to 100. Bruno, I think it's inevitable that he will go, and that fee will be probably close to $80, $85 million. So they are getting a lot of money in, and the young players have got a job on their hands to try and steady the ship. And I think it was one of them, as Kieran said there, the writing on the wall was for Eddie Howe.

And I sort of half seen it coming because he's seeing these players and he's seeing the club, Hemorrhage, a lot of talent thinking, if we get off to a bad start, the fans are going to turn on Eddie Howe. And there's the last man on the planet, I think, would have deserved any criticism in all of this, would have been Eddie Howe. After Kevin Keegan, in between Kevin Keegan and Bobby Robson, I think he ranks a very good second in Newcastle's history. Don, I think the Isak sale, you could sort of understand with the fuss he made. Anthony Gordi, you can say you can't deny him his move to Barcelona. For me, the Sanjo Tanali one really did surprise me about the speed in which they sold him as well. Did that surprise you as a Newcastle fan? Not really.

I did hear some comments from him, and I think he was quite sincere and genuine, and he said his first priority, if he was going to leave Newcastle, because he loved the club so much, he loved the city, was to go back to Italy, but finances just wouldn't allow it.

There's no money in Italian football to play close to £100 million. So then you're thinking, right, it's going to be Man City, it's going to be Man United, it's going to be Liverpool. That was the likely destination for a player that is top draw.

So for him to go to Tottenham felt, as though from a player's perspective, I didn't see that move happening from Tanali. Now Spurs have got a real good player and they're building and congratulate Spurs for making that move

and getting the job done. But from a sporting point of view, I wonder why his agent didn't pick up the phone to Liverpool, Man City, Mani Knight before then Spurs. So unless it was some of the option that no one was really looking at,

maybe something off the field I don't want to get into that discussion. So maybe Spurs were the only team that was in for him. Don, I think genuinely wanted to go back to Italy. Do you think maybe the agent knew that Spurs had cash on the hip and needed big signings.

They needed statement signings. Yeah, and again, it's a very sensitive subject, Aaron, and I'm not sure if any of the big teams that I mentioned, maybe he'd look into his bet in history when he got suspended at Newcastle, and maybe that was a factor between those bigger clubs that I mentioned, not coming in for him. But, you know, he's made the move.

And the best thing Newcastle now can do as a football club is make sure when Tanali leaves, you get big money for him. So Bruno's the next one. So Bruno, they've got to make sure they get top dollar for him and then reinvest. What they can't do after Bruno goes, because he will go, because he said again,

and you can't blame him off the back of what Andros' question was, these guys now deserve at the point of their career where they want to win trophies. And Bruno's been very, very honest in the few words that he said, he said, listen, I'm at age now at 29 where I want to win the Champions League and I want to win the Premier League. So you can't really blame these guys

for making the move and getting themselves silverware. Kieran, if they're realigning their strategy in the way they do things, are they realigning the expectations for the forthcoming season as well? I think it'll be really interesting when we next year from the chief executive and indeed the sporting director about that. But I think realistically, as the lads have touched on, if you're to lose that many key players, there has to be a recognition that these young players do will need time to adapt to the Premier League, the physicality, the Premier League, the intensity of it. We've

seen even experienced players struggle with that. And I think these young players have lots of potential, but they're going to need time as well. They're going to need a lot of work on the training pitches. Let's not forget, a new manager is coming in. It's less than three weeks before. the first game of season against Liverpool. You know, it's been a lot of change in one window and it's going to take time, I think, for it to come together. So, yeah, certainly the idea that Newcastle by 2030 are the big scum of the world, I think, yeah,

there's going to have to be a change in all. Kieran, appreciate it, as ever. Thank you so much. And just on Newcastle, I mean, we draw comparisons with Aston Villa because they, along with Newcastle, have been, you know, the two teams that have broken into that sort of top six mould. They've sold a couple of key players as well.

Yuri Telemans has gone to Manchester United for 35 million pounds, and Morgan Rogers is in that massive deal to Chelsea. Why are we not as concerned for Villa as we are for Newcastle? That's a very good question. I just feel like Newcastle have sold more key players. I don't know. I think Villa have the strength and depth in midfield to be able to replace Telemans. Morgan Rogers, not so much, but that's one player.

When you look at Isak last year, who was their main goal getter, we're talking about Tanali and Gimeresh, who are their spine, really. Anthony Gordon, I know he's been a bit hit and miss, but still a huge, huge talent. I think it's the scale of the players they've sold, which are the core of what I've got Newcastle, the success in the last three or four years.

I think if I can jump in there quickly, I think it's because Una Emery absolutely runs Aston Villa. You know, and he's got so much power there. If he went to the board, you get me a couple of players, or I'm off. That would be disaster of a villa. So he holds all the cards where Eddie Howe didn't in Newcastle. And I think the biggest question mark, if I can jump back to Newcastle very quickly now is from a Newcastle fan.

This is now where you want to see the Piff, the owners of Newcastle United Football Club, actually put their plan, which they said they were going to do, to try and get all the things off the field aligned with potentially what might be on the pitch. That is brand new training ground, brand new St James's Park, actually trying to get money into the club. So we're not relying on selling players because every other year or three, we've got to sell because of PSR. They have to try and invest more. but would you take that in exchange for a few years of football pain? Take what? Having to focus your efforts on the infrastructure off the pitch rather than what's going on.

That's the only way, Aaron, without getting technical into PSR, it's the only way the commercial side of it from a Newcastle point of view to try and bring more revenue in is to make, and know PSR is going to be a distant thing. But to try and get that financial, you know, hook around Newcastle's neck away and just say, right, we don't have to sell Bruno Gimeraish this summer. We don't then have to panic in three weeks' time. if Man United make a bid for Lewis Hall.

We are commercially, because we are the richest club in the world. How come commercially can they not make Newcastle bigger and stronger off the pitch? So then that makes on the pitch management and sales of players not happen anymore because this can't go on forever. This feels like to me that this is the biggest turn around for Newcastle in the amount of talent that they've lost. The head might kick in and Andros might agree with there's always younger, faster players available. So once Bruno moves on at 29 and Talani moves on and Alexander Isak and Anthony Gordon,

you know, fast player, if you like, he's going to be amazing pressing machine for Barcelona. But there's always a younger core element that can come through. And they might not be as good as these players. But what has to happen is, you know, the sporting directors have to make sure of all these five or six owners that comes in, the majority are a hit. And they can be the Tanales and the Bruno's and the bigger guys at Newcastle in 18-1's time of development. Manzambi's a big miss. Huge miss. Missing out on him is huge because he's going to be some play for Aston Villa.

And I don't know with Jao Gomez coming in, you'd expect him to take over from Yuri Telemans in the centre of midfield and then maybe Manzambi to play a bit further forward, Andros. Yeah, he's probably just in the number 10 role. I watched him in the World Cup. He was so good. Yeah. So it's a big, big loss for Newcastle and to Villa as well. We've seen them miss out to Liverpool.

of the cities of this world, but that would hurt them losing out to Villa, having almost had the deal done. Absolutely. On the open road, conditions change. Your composure doesn't have to. But technologies like terrain response to and clear site ground view, range rover sport brings confidence and control the challenging conditions. Explore more at rangerover.ca.

Throughout this World Cup, David Beckham has been everywhere. In the stands, in commercials during ad breaks, sorry, hydration. breaks, which is wild when you consider he was once the most hated man in Britain. I turned around to a fan and he was screaming about my wife and about Brooklyn right to my face and wouldn't even look away. How do you go from that to being a billionaire? That's next time on Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts.

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on the domestic and international circuits. It's a fourth cricket and it's the huge run. Tettle down. It's a song ring. Cricket on five live in every ball of this. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Monday Nightclub on the Football Daily podcast. Let's talk superstars.

Elite level signings. Vinnie Jr. to Arsenal. Bradley Barkler. to Liverpool are moves that have been mooted. Tottenham boss Roberto de Zerbi is also promised the Bomber signing in North London. By the way, just Andrews says, the former Spursman, when did Bomber become

accepted transfer lingo or part of the transfer bingo card? Did he actually say that or are you saying that? No, he's been quoted to saying it. Wow. That's a new one for me. Hey, I'm liking it, though. I mean, do you think they need a central striker or a wide player, spurs? Because when you think about it, they've rebuilt the back line.

They've fully rebuilt the back line. I mean, the midfield is pretty stacked as well. Where do they go next? Where do they bring in this marquee signing? I think wide. Bomber signing usually means a number nine. But when you've got Dominic Salanky who, yeah, he missed large parts of last season, but he was your sort of marquee number nine for many years to come.

So I don't think they'll abandon that one quite yet. So I'm thinking more in the wider areas. I don't know if the other guys have another opinion. I think it was shout today, Andros, of maybe Cody Gakpo in Savino. So two big players there if he got them in. Savino is the one they want, Don't. Yeah.

No. Yeah, no. Are they bomber? No. But you'd have them. Because I think only he knows, and the medical staff know how far Koolozovsky's away, how far Mohamed Kudis is away.

So if they're going to be long term, Dersh, he's not the man to wait for people. Sounds like, you know, me and Andros know, we've been in dress rooms where, you know, managers haven't got time for you when you're injured. And that's natural. That's brutal. That's a brutal part of the game. So DeJerby's a manager that's thinking about yesterday.

So if he wants those two wide players in and he's got to wait six to 12 months for the players to come back from injury, he'll buy him. I mean, I think the quotes on Richarlison are absolutely fascinating. Does he be coming out saying he doesn't know whether forward Richarlison will stay at the club as he sometimes wants to leave? Did you hear what else he said? He said, he went, sometimes I like him, sometimes I like him, sometimes I like him, sometimes That's Richarlerson.

I played with Richarlison. That is exactly the way you can describe him because on a Saturday afternoon, he will run nonstop for 90 minutes. He will listen to everything you say. But then on a Monday, he would just sulk. He will not run. On a Tuesday, he'll run.

Wednesday he might not run again. It's just like it's an up and down relationship. So, yeah, I feel deserve his pain there. You need someone like that, though, don't you, Anros? You need a nomad. You need someone who's a bit talismanic, don't you? Just to carry things forward,

especially at the front. Yeah, absolutely. I think he's similar to like when we spoke about Anthony Gorn. He leads from the front in the press. He's so aggressive. Those moments where Tottenham were struggling and looking like they're going to go down. He's the one. He's just always trying to make stuff happen.

May have not had the quality in the final third he would have liked, but just always trying and as a striker, that's such an underrated tool to just always be pressing and trying to force the issue. How optimistic are you of Tottenham this season? I don't want to get too carried away, but I'm actually, even before the signings, I was like Deserbie, the appointment of Deserby and the fact he kept them up. I was really looking forward to seeing how he progressed with them this season. But seeing the signings he's made and a potential bomber signing,

I think good times could be back a little bit. I don't want to speak to, I don't want to become a meme, you know, but I'm really excited. We're back! Yeah, exactly. I don't want to go that far. Just pushing on to Finney Jr. to Arsenal. I mean, could it really happen? Adam, a lot reporting to just Arsenal, you know,

think they have a legitimate chance of putting a deal together here. Yeah, I think it's, you've got sort of probably two things going on, which is probably there are genuine talks going on between, you know, Arsenal and representatives, whether they are direct intermediaries or direct representatives of Vinnie and sort of getting a sense of what that package could be and having the appetite to do it. But you always have that sense at the back of your head, don't you have, is Vinny just sort of playing it a bit, playing both sides, trying to get that new contract.

You know, he's so talented. He's at, you know, Arsenal's a fantastic club, but I think most people think, you know, your Real Madrid, Barcelona are just that one level higher, particularly, I think, in the mind of many Brazilian players. He's been so, so big for Rail Madrid. It just feels, it just doesn't feel like a transfer of Arsenal have done traditionally. So that's why it feels so hard to get your head around it. But they are clearly trying.

It's just whether. Vinnie is playing them a bit. And I guess that's what we're all waiting to find out. This is where an agent is doing a very, very good job for Vinny Jr. Because he's bringing teams to the table. And listen, I think Arsenal winning this, even if they don't sign them, I think it's still a great look for Arsenal that they're trying to sign Vinny Jr. But everything that I think I've seen over the years, it's his agent bringing Arsenal

to the table just to say to Real Madrid, well, if you don't want me and you don't rate us and you don't want to pay me whatever the number is a week, I can go to Arsenal and get close to it there. it smells like he'll sign a new deal at Real Madrid. I think if Real Madrid wanted to get rid of Vinny Jr., they would have done it in January when he was reported to have fallen out with Jabby Alonzo, the then coach of Round Madrid,

they sort of chose their Galactico, got their manager sacked. So it feels like, why would you get rid of your long-term manager for your superstar to then send him six months later? This is a great one, Andros, because I think it's a case of Florentino Perez wanting nothing to do with this.

So this is why he's brought Jose in. You say, Joseon, right? You tell me which ones you want and which ones you don't. I don't want to have Vinny Jr. coming upstairs and knocking on my door saying this, that and the other. Jose, you please deal with it. Are you not so excited to just see Jose attempt to manage this dressing room with Embappe, Vinny, Bellingham. But he's a top dog there, Adam, though, isn't he? I mean, for the first time in a long time, he's like, you know, the political struggles inside of a dressing room at Real Madrid.

The players always win, as we saw with Jabby Alonzo. Jose's the top dog. That's not happened for a long time. Do you think players of this generation see Jose the way that maybe you guys do or that I do as this all concrete manager? Or do you think they might see him as the guy who's not done that, who's not won that much for a while? Do you know what I hope? I hope that Florentino Perez hasn't signed the man that he had, what was it, 12, 13 years ago when he was fighting pet and he was fighting Villanova and he done such a good job. because Jose has softened over the years. You don't think Jose plays up to a character and he will lean back into that?

Yeah. Well, the Panto villain? I mean, at Roma, at Roma, who's getting sent off every week. I mean, honestly, it was quite embarrassing when he was a manager of Roma, how he was having fights with, you know, technical staff, opposition coaches or opposition players.

In the end, it was a pretty awful look. But I think the great thing about Jose is when he was hard 13 years ago, and that's probably the last time obviously Florentino Perez had anything to do them when he was a rumourgroom of his manager. He has softened over the years. If you're asking Don,

whether you're going to get any new gifts and memes out of him, I don't know is the answer because he's... Oh, he will. Provided us so many. I guarantee you, if Real Madrid get pumped off Barsat,

he'll chuck one of his players under the bus, guaranteed or get sent off. Just on Vinnie Jr., I know we're talking about in Jose de Marino, we've digress. Just on Vinny Jr. I'm trying to think. think of the last time a Galactico level player arrived in the Premier League from Real Madrid,

from at sort of like the peak of their powers. And I can't think of anyone apart from, I mean, going back to early days of Chelsea, maybe someone like a Cresper, Shevchenko, when they were like the big dogs in Europe and they landed. Would you lean back a little bit further back than that and think the biggest one, the Premier League years, Yergen Klinsman? Could you, could you not say, could you not say, Erzol was sort of a Galactico when he went to Arsenal? of him. I thought of Angale D. Maria then I was like

Romerud wanted rid of him. It's like when Bastienchwein-Steiger landed at Manchester United. I mean, Adam, you'll verify it. By Munich don't get rid of players in their prime. Schweinsteiger, Owen Hargreaves, and they both went to Manchester United and suffered for various reasons. But I

can't think of another player that was in the pomp and landed in the Premier League. And that's why this Vinnie Junior deal, no matter what angle you look at it from, it's exciting for the league. Yeah, and isn't it weird that more of that hasn't happened when you think of how strong the Premier League is financially, that actually there has been that kind of just limit on the player. And I think it's also because the Premier League has been more, maybe it's

been a little bit more about kind of managers, star managers and star teams and star brands as names really, rather than actually superstar players. The superstar players have largely been at Real Madrid, Bayern, Munich and Barcelona, to be honest. I mean, Harlan's kind of a little bit of an exception to that, I think you could say. I mean, I know he didn't leave a Madrid, Barcelona, but you could easily have gone to any of them. And, you know, I still wonder if in two years' time he might end up at one of them as well. But we have, as you say, we've usually seen that traffic going the other way out of England into Madrid or Barcelona. So I think it would be a real signpost for the league actually

and probably quite scary for Real Madrid. Though, I mean, they have so many players who could just occupy that left-sided space. I'm not even sure how much they, it sounds mad. You know, with Mbapé and maybe Diamond arriving as well from Leipzig, you're almost like, I'm not sure how much they'd miss him, which seems crazy to say. There was a great story, Aaron, knocking around a couple of weeks ago. It might be a new one from Yergen Klopp or an old one when they tried to sign Killing Mbapé from Monaco.

and there was a deal that never happened and they had him and his family in the sky in an aeroplane just rotating just circling trying to impress him and his family to try and get him to an infield never happened again just thinking about these

these big name players and landing in the Premier League do you think any of them are afraid of the challenge of going to the Premier League which is the most watch the most scrutinised league in the world leaving behind relative home comforts a safe space effectively

in footballing terms and coming here and being under the radar with the intensity, Adam? I don't know. I mean, playing for Rail Madrid's quite a lot of pressure. And if you don't turn up at Rail Madrid, you're in quite a lot of trouble quite quickly. And, you know, Vni has had to deal with really a hell of a lot at Madrid between the pressure on the team on the field,

but all the racist abuse that he's suffered as well while he's been there, you know, he clearly looks like an incredibly strong, resilient character, more resilient than he should ever really have to be as well. so I don't think he'd be scared of the challenge per se. I'm talking about people in the past. Oh, you mean like former players? Yeah, players in the past in general. Why have we not seen more of these players in their pomp?

Oh, I think financially. Yeah, I think financially, I think financially, I think Madrid and Barcelona have always been able to offer as much, if not more. I think that's probably pretty much still the case, to be fair. I mean, maybe Arsenal will make an exception in this case. So I think that combined with, you know, the lifestyle living in Spain is probably more attractive to players, particularly from Brazil or from Spain or Portugal, in some cases as fantastic as London is. And maybe, you know, maybe some

of them, you know, as you say, didn't, maybe just didn't fancy the different style of play, different intensity. I think the Premier League is more physically demanding. I'm not sure it's better, but it is more physically demanding for sure than La Liga. And there are more teams across the league I think that can cause you trouble, then is the case in La Liga? That's it for the Monday nightclub. Thanks to Andrew Ston and Adam, and thank you for listening. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league. This is five-life sports. It's all right to the lights and fit and a floor.

To bowl him is not to stop out. Everyone standing around the 18th green. He shows to the centre. They'll do it. Oh, the right head and the former champion. Five Live Sports. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. Listen on BBC Sounds.

Throughout this World Cup, David Beckham has been everywhere. In the stands, in commercials during ad breaks, sorry, hydration breaks. Which is wild when you consider he was once the most hated man in Britain. I turned around to a fan and he was screaming about my wife and about Brooklyn, right to my face. I wouldn't even look away. How do you go from that to being a billionaire? That's next time on Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts.