Football Daily - MNC: Iraola’s fitness conundrum, can Rashford succeed at United?

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Chris Sutton, Izzy Christiansen and Sami Mokbel are with Kelly Sommers to debate the big talking points around the Premier League and elsewhere.The panel analyse new Liverpool manager Andoni Iraola’s comments on his squad’s fitness, after learning more about reports linking Amazon-owning billionaire Jeff Bezos with a bid to buy a significant stake in the club.Elsewhere with the top clubs, how will Manchester City cope without Rodri if he moves to Barcelona, what does Arsenal’s failed pursuit of Vinicius Junior say about the Premier League and how will Manchester United reintegrate Marcus Rashford after 18 months away on loan?Finally, how did a Norwich City fan’s name end up on a Brazilian team’s shirt? Ana and Jonny Butcher join the Monday Night Club to explain more...Timecodes: 02:00 Billionaire consortium including Jeff Bezos set to invest in Liverpool — what does it mean? 07:00 Andoni Iraola’s comments on the Liverpool’s squad fitness — is he risking alienating the dressing room already? 22:00 What will the Guardiola to Maresca transition look like at Manchester City, and how much does Rodri’s future affect that? 27:00 Why couldn’t Arsenal sign Vinicius and what does it say about how the world’s best players view the Premier League? 32:15 Marcus Rashford’s back at Manchester United, can Michael Carrick reintegrate him successfully? 45:30 The English fan whose name is on a Brazilian club’s shirt — Ana and Jonny Butcher join the show!

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You've had some lovely holidays this summer. Is that right? Yeah, that is correct, Kelly. I am very well rested and like I imagine Chris Sutton. Yes. Busy out in the States. Listening to you, Chris, you were fantastic, by the way. Not many people give you the credit you deserve.

So from me to you, massive congrats. brilliant. Chris, you can tell you. As always. Yeah, this won't last all season though. Let me say that. That's not like you, is he, to pay me a compliment. Well, it might not be a sign of things to come this evening, Chris.

No, start as we might to go on. Credit where it's due. You were brilliant. As were the five-life team as well, guys, by the way. Oh, let's not worry about them. Let's just talk about me if you want. As you can hear, that is, of course, the league winner in England and Scotland, Chris Susson and Chris, I'm going to get my tiny violin out here

because I'm told you haven't had a holiday. No, I haven't yet. Some of us work really hard. And that's what I do. But as long, Kelly, as long as you're all right and Sammy's all right and Izzy's all right, that's the main thing. Don't worry about me. And of course, Chris is talking about Sammy Mockbelt, our senior football correspondent.

And just to rub it in, Sammy, you're on holiday now, aren't you? I'm on holiday now, Kelly, yeah. Couldn't get back on a plane quick enough after landing from the States after seven weeks. We are in Mariah, so it's just north of Alicante. It's a beautiful little spot. Actually, after seven weeks in America, I actually feel of climatized. We spend the whole world. Probably feels cooler there, doesn't it?

Being acclimatized for the players. I feel acclimatized for my holiday. It's sweltering. But, yeah, after seven weeks in the United States, I am ready to go. I'm ready to go for the holiday. I'm looking forward to the new season. Yes, I think we all are.

Even Chris. Chris, you looking forward to the new season? Well, the season's already started in Scotland. Kelly, it's very disrespectful. Sorry, yes. I did see you on my television the other day when I switched it on. I'm sorry. I thought it was a little bit too soon.

The last time I actually saw you, Chris, You were in a sandwich, a Wayne Rooney and Kelly Summer's sandwich on, which sounds interesting, actually, on the way back from the World Cup final, the media media class, wasn't it? Yeah, we had a right laugh, didn't we? I had dinner on the other side of me too. It really was an eclectic combo, wasn't it? Anyway, enough of that, because the World Cup final was only a few weeks ago, but it actually kind of feels like ages ago in so many ways as well, because the Premier League season is just around the corner. And we're actually going to start this evening with the news that there's a consortium featuring several billionaires. including Amazon founder and the fourth richest man in the world,

Jeff Bezos, are closer to purchasing a 30% stake in Liverpool. Others involved in this include the Facebook co-founder Eduardo Savarin and the former QPR owner, Amit Buttea. Now we can be joined by the football finance expert, Stefan Borson. Stefan, thanks for coming on the show this evening. Just for listen a little bit more, because there's no suggestion of a full sale here. So just how significant would this actually be if it went through,

both for Liverpool and also for their current owners? I think there's no suggestion of a full sell yet. I think we have to be realistic that the individuals that are involved in this consortium and also the father-in-law of Mr Batia is also a tens of billions of pounds billionaire. So, you know, you do have one of the wealthiest consortiums that's ever gone after a football club. I suspect their long-term plan is not to be a 30-cent shareholder of Liverpool. So I think this will be the first step, really, of what will be over the next few years, a move to have a majority of the club.

I think it's a very interesting development and where we get to this point now, when clubs are generating around about a billion dollars of revenue six times, which tends to be what people are paying for a Premier League, a massive Premier League club these days. That puts you at $6 billion valuation. the only people that can afford $6 billion for what is effectively an expensive toy are people who have got wealth as a consortium while over $100 billion. Yeah, that's quite a good way of putting it actually a very expensive toy.

Should this deal go through, what would it actually value Liverpool at and how much profit would FSG have made on their initial investment, which came, I think, back in 2010? Yeah, I mean, it's been a hugely successful investment for FSG. they bought it for around about 300 million. It was in distress at the time, and this would value the club at near a 5 billion pounds. So they're not far off a 20X,

but of course it's been quite a journey for Liverpool. And FSG have done almost everything right. So that's what you have to do to get the sorts of returns that they're looking at here. Liverpool, from a commercial perspective, have gone probably from, somewhere in the order of £100 million £10 years ago

commercially to 350 today. They've trebled the match day revenue. So we're in a situation where the club has grown very aggressively over the last few years and FSG will take that upside both in terms of selling part of their stake now but also if they ultimately come to sell the whole thing. It always fascinates me

because the language you've used when talking about it being a toy, It always fascinates me why people are attracted to football clubs. Jeff Bezos is such a successful businessman. I know he's kind of dabbled and he's shown interest in NFL teams before, but why do you think Liverpool and football appeals to him so much? Well, look, there's a scarcity value to a club like Liverpool. You know, it's arguably one of the top five clubs on the planet of a sport that's just had an incredibly successful World Cup in the US.

So, you know, I think we should recognise the brand that is Liverpool. I think on top of that, if you look at Amit Batia, who has been 15 years on the board of Queens Park Rangers, you know, people do enjoy the journey of being a part owner, director and influencer within a football club. I think it's similar to what happened at Manchester United with Sir Jim Rackleff and, you know, people getting towards the end of their lives want to own something that is effectively a lot of fun. on top of the fact that they may look to see whether they can make a financial return if the game moves in the direction that they may believe it's going to. I mean, clearly there's been very substantial increases of the type that I've just mentioned to you,

but also there's been broadcast increases. And I think when you see what's happened with FIFA, you now know that certain avenues to investors that want to get involved in football are closed. I think the FIFA situation means that you'll never see an investment at the top of the game and then you're looking at who are the biggest clubs and the best clubs in the world and clearly Liverpool are within that group. Yes, they certainly are. It will be fascinating to see how this one pans out. Stefan, thank you so much. That was Stefan Borsan, the head of sports at McCarthy-Denning Law Firm. So we've spoken about the finance and now we're just 11 days away

from actual Premier League football returning. And 2026, 27 is already actually a record breaker with nine clubs starting the campaign with a new manager in the dugout. It's actually the most in a top flight season since 46-47, the first campaign after the Second World War. It does feel, Chris, doesn't it? Like there's a bit of a sea change, a bit of uncertainty, because there's so many new faces in the league. Yes, and I think with that, though, there's a lot of excitement. I was chopping them up today to the new managers.

I didn't realise that there was quite so many, but then, yeah, you have a look, I mean, nearly half the league. And as I say, a lot of excitement, you know, you look at Liverpool, for example, example and only ariola going in and did brilliant things at Bournemouth, but can he make that step up? The pressure will really be on. The expectation will be there. You look at Chelsea, Alonzo going in Chelsea and what they haven't achieved really since Todd Bowley has taken over. They've been through a fair few managers, but yeah, you go down the list and I forgot about Oliver Glaston going in at Nottingham Forest and you know, you think that,

Crystal Palace finished ahead of Forrest last season, a place ahead of them and won a conference league as well. And that seems a bit of an odd appointment. But yeah. Do you think that was the reason he didn't sign a contract at Crystal Palace? Do you think he thought he was going to end up at Nottingham Forest? I wouldn't have thought so, Kelly. Not initially. But yeah, I mean, a lot of change.

And with that comes a lot of uncertainty, but a lot of excitement as well. Yeah, it is excitement. I think a lot of that excitement also comes from the fact that, As Chris mentioned there, it's top teams, teams that we're expecting to be challenging. The headline really, of course, is the fact that Pep Guardiola's left. We've got Enzo Moreska in at Manchester City. But as Chris said, Alonzo at Chelsea, Irola at Liverpool 2. These are teams that we're expecting to compete for the title, aren't we?

We've got big expectations and those managers have got pressure on them. Absolutely. And I think that any Premier League job comes with huge pressure, I'd imagine. And I think the expectation on those clubs you mentioned is to win and to be bare minimum champions league contenders. to finish in the top four and make sure they qualify for that next season. And of course, there'll be massive change. You know, there's a real freshness about, you know,

the managers that have come in, particularly excited to see Alonzo in the league and to what he can do. I mean, I've only read and seen very good things about, you know, the way that he's introduced himself at Chelsea Football Club. I think Moreska's transition will be pretty seamless at Manchester City as well, who will, of course, be expected to be title contenders again. And I think the way that the players have warmed to him already and his previous connection with the club,

I think will give him a good head start in terms of his philosophy and the way he wants to operate. And then I think I really are at the three of them, those managers, I think he's got the biggest challenge ahead of him, just purely based on the squad and where Liverpool's kind of spaced seems to be in the squad at the moment with the transition, the players and the recruitment necessary in order for Iriola to implement his style. And I think that might take a little longer than the other two clubs in terms of project. But, you know, like Chris, there's a real freshness and I'm very excited to see how these managers implement, you know, what got them these jobs in the first place and what they're going to change, what they're going to tweak and how they are going to evolve over the season and

beyond. I'm guessing you're talking about Irola as well because of the comments he made this week because they've let a lead slip twice now, haven't they? He basically said my players can only run for 30 minutes, didn't he? Well, we know with Bournemouth, the way that Iraola played, you know, you have to be very, very fit to play in his system. And, you know, they're a very exciting team to watch. I've said over the last couple of years in the Premier League, Bournemouth have been one of the standout teams alongside Eddie Howe at Newcastle. Obviously, no longer there. But I think that they've been the two outside of the top four, five teams in the Premier League that I've said,

just a joy to watch, the intensity that they play at. And that's why Liverpool have hired Iriola, because they want to get back to that intensity that lights up on field that perhaps the fans felt they missed last season. That's a classic. That's a classic, though, is Ian Kelly, isn't it? New manager goes in, oh, guess what, the players aren't fit enough. I mean, that's out of a manager, new manager. Being a bit cynical here?

No, it is. That's what all met. Most managers go in and say, well, the players last season or the, you know, the players this season weren't fit enough. We've got to improve that. What about all these sports scientists? What were they doing at Liverpool last season? They should all be sacked if the players weren't fit enough.

I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it really is for him to go in and say that. I mean, come on. It's just being honest, isn't he? That's a classic. Well, okay. A lot of managers do it, though, don't they? Yeah, and I was going to bring in Sammy in this conversation because as journalists,

as reporters, Sammy, I think we love it, don't we, when we hear a manager say something like that. And, I mean, those quotes have been everywhere. They're being spoken about here on this show. And probably, with all respect to Bourmouth, if he said that at Bournemouth, it probably wouldn't be such a big story. So whether it was a message or whether today is thinking, oh, gosh, okay, they've got a bit further. Do you think it was a message to the board, maybe even? Well, he's only been there five minutes. So if he's firing messages to the board, then that's a danger.

dangerous game he's playing. But I do think there is a sense of maybe getting the excuses in early because he's had a proper look at the squad that he's got his disposal. He's obviously seen them play now in preseason friendlies. And I do wonder if he thinks, perhaps this first season in charge isn't going to go as well or as according to plan as he'd hoped. And maybe there is a sense of self-preservation here with Andoni Ariola.

Time will tell with that. But I certainly agree, you know, a month into. to preseason, you know, 10 days away from the start of the Premier League campaign or whatever it is, to come out and criticise, I know he hasn't perhaps been as blunt as that, but criticise your players' fitness levels, it's kind of a dangerous game at that early stage of your reign. So, no, it will be interesting to see how... When you say dangerous game, Sammy, when you say dangerous game, a dangerous game for who, though.

Chris, you were implying that as well. How were you players? How are you, you've been in the job for, he's been in the job. So he's been with the players for what, three,

four weeks, right? It will be interesting to see how that, the dressing room dynamic there. If they've construed that as, well, he's having a pop at us here, it'll be interesting to see how, how that plays out.

Do you think that they would think that? I didn't imply that, Kelly. I don't know. I don't know if they will, But I think so early, I'm just, I think so early in that manager-player dynamic to suggest that they are, that the fitness levels aren't up to scratch, I would not be surprised if a few players are thinking, hang on a minute, you know. Yeah, but the same time, Sammy, I agree with you, but at the same time, for Liverpool last season, it simply wasn't good enough. So they either take that message and be negative with it or they take the message and then. they take it and go, hang, I need to roll my sleeves up a little bit.

Because this manager, you got to remember, Borma finished sixth last season. Ideally, you want your players to say, to react in the right way. But largely, this is also a group of players that I know you're only ever as good as your last season, but this is also generally a group of players that won the league the season before. So they're not donkeys, and they were fit enough to season before. Exactly. So they've achieved. that squad is achieved.

So for then a new manager to come in and to then question the fitness, to me, yeah, I'm not saying that the players have taken it the wrong way, but I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are thinking, well, hang on a minute.

And if they're not being, if they're not fit enough, and Chris, you'd probably be in a better position to answers, but you've done numerous pre-seasons. How long does that take? how long does that process take to get them up to speed? And how many games do you have to play into a Premier League season before you say, okay, now we're up to speed?

I think what you said at the start was right about his comments. He wants to buy himself time. That's what he wants to do. He wants to take the pressure off himself at the start and maybe feel his way into the season. He may not feel that the squad is where he wants them to be in terms of fitness and in terms of organisation. So that's what I think he's doing.

doing. And, you know, I'd love to know what Arna Slott has to say about these comments. It'll be interesting to see whether he does come out and sort of have a pop back at Andonia Riyola. I just think it was unnecessary for him to say that. It's his squad. It's his team. And the thing, I mean, we talk about, we use this phrase, the modern game now. I mean, are we saying these players over the last two seasons, under Arna Slot, bearing in mind they won the Premier League the first season, they weren't regularly tested. And the sport scientists weren't on top of everything. I just don't. I'm sorry, I just don't believe any of it.

I really don't. I don't understand how the players could honestly be in a position where they're 11 days from the start of the season and the manager's coming out and saying they can only run for 30 minutes. I just do not understand that. But is he looking at the style of football that we know that Irola wants to play? I know he's new at Liverpool, but we know the type of football that he played at Bournemouth that they're going to want him to play at Liverpool as well. it's a lot more intense than Slot had these players playing. How difficult is that for the players?

And I can tell there's not too much sympathy for the players at the moment in this conversation. And I take all of Chris and Sammy's points on board. But how difficult is that for the players? Do we need to just accept that actually Erola is being honest here and it is quite hard for the players? He's going to be incredibly demanding because of the football he played at Bournemouth and the style of play and is the philosophy that Andoni Ariola is as a manager. And that's why he's got the Liverpool job.

because the Liverpool board liked what they saw over a period of time at Bournemouth. They like the style of football. I do think it suits the football club in Liverpool. You know, this comment about not fit enough, it could have been Iriola meaning at this stage of preseason, they're not where they want to be. And perhaps the pressure of them being at Amfield yesterday

off the back of the comments may have just heightened the fact that, you know, he's thinking he kind of needs to kind of give himself a little bit of something here to protect himself. But ultimately they're two weeks away from the Premier League season beginning. two weeks, you know, in pre-season terms, you can make a lot of gains. And they do have players coming back in. Obviously, Alexis McAllister coming back into the midfield. Like, what state of play is he going to be in when he comes back?

I mean, I would imagine he'll be fit and ready to go. But he obviously need a few weeks under the belt of what the new manager wants. But you have to be relentless. You have to be able to deal with because if you're not relentless as a football team the way you want to play, you have to be relentless in the way you defend. Because throughout the course of the season, you'll be playing up against teams who are incredibly intense with the way that they play, which will force you to be intense. So ultimately, the demands of the game are getting higher and higher, and you have to become

fitter and fitter and be able to make, you know, high-level decisions when you're fatigued in games. And that's why Borm have got success was because the players were so clear on what the manager wanted them to do. They were so in sync. And Iriel is just going to need some time. It is an interesting comment about the fitness, but the players have got two weeks to roll their sleeves up in my eyes and fight for their shirt on the opening day of the season. Oh, so I don't have the exact figure to hand, but do you remember how Irola started at Bournemouth, Sammy? He had to be given time, didn't he? It took, I know it's a different group of players, different expectations. And it was a difficult period as well, wasn't it,

Kelly, because obviously Gary O'Neill was a popular figure when he took the job. And I think there was a lot of a big narrative at the time as to, you know, why are you bringing in someone that was a relative unknown for a manager that successfully kept Ballmerf up in the Premier League. But what an appointment it was, and is he's absolutely right. I think his philosophy of football,

high intensity, an intense press, is one that suits the club. I think we saw with Juergen Klopp. It's more probably aligned with a Yergen Klop team than an Arnyslot team, and we saw the kind of success that Juergen Klopp had at Liverpool during his time

there. And if he can replicate that, I think it's a really, really good appointment. But it's interesting. I was just interested by what Izzy was saying there. Those final two weeks of preseason, Izzy, you think that that's probably when things ramp up the most. And there are fitness. Can you give us maybe just a little bit of insight into that and into how those final two weeks, 10 days work of a preseason campaign?

As a manager, you start to show your hand at that point in terms of if you're in the starting 11 yesterday and the friendlies that went on, if you're in the starting 11 next. weekend if you've got a midweek game behind closed doors and you then start to see where the manager sees you and then you start to gain more minutes on the pitch because you're building up from 30, 45 minutes in your opening few Premier League, sorry, preseason fixtures to then over half 60, 70, 75 and fundamentally you need to probably have around 16 players who are capable of withstanding the 90 minutes on the opening day of the season and then obviously you build the rest of the squad along that and account for injuries but

ultimately the players have now had minimum four weeks, whether that be at their training grounds or whether that be home training or training camps they do by themselves in hot places, to build that robustness and to withstand the demands of what the season ahead presents. But ultimately, a lot of the robustness that players need is done in the gym and the exposure on the pitch is very tactical. And I do think times have moved on from running. You do see running tests going on around social media, all clubs test their players. but ultimately the players should come back into preseason

in a condition that allows them to then kick on rather than come back into a position where you have to run in order to get up to speed with the way the Gaffer wants you to play. So these last two weeks, these are now refining weeks because ultimately that opening day of the season, you have to be ready. You can't treat the opening day of the Premier League season as a pre-season game.

You have to treat it as a game that might count at the back end of the season in terms of your points tally. So it's crucial to hit the ground running and I think as a coach you'd want roughly around 16 players absolutely firing, ready to go on that opening day. Of course, Liverpool do still have two preseason games remaining against Como before they open the season away at Newcastle. So I think it's safe to say we covered off Liverpool.

We know that Irrilla's got quite a big job on his hands there, which he's said by his own admission pretty much. Going back to then, I think I said it before, the headline really this summer is the fact that we're seeing a new look, Manchester City, after all of the success that Pep Guard has had, We knew for quite a while really, didn't we? Well, Sammy certainly did, that it was going to be Enzo Moreska in there. How seamless do you expect that transition to be, Chris?

Well, pretty seamless because Moreska has worked under PEP. I mean, of course, I think that he will, I don't know whether he'll come under the most scrutiny of the new managers. But because of what PEP achieved, I think we all know the way that Enzo Moreska likes to set this team up. He likes to be possession of orientated. He'll play out from the back. He'll play through the thirds. I think the biggest thing for Manchester City is whether they're able to, I don't know whether there's been any news today.

Hold on to Roderie. I really do you think about it. He's the best player at the World Cup. I know they've got Elliot Anderson in, who's an exceptional talent. I think he's a brilliant signing. But, you know, the expectation from city fans will, there'll be a disappointment with the way that they finished last season.

they'll expect to really challenge Arsenal this season. So if you lose, I mean, they've already lost, you know, the likes of John Stone to Bernardo Silver. If they lost their sort of the heartbeat of that midfield rodry, I think that would be a massive blow. And you'd have to make Arsenal pretty strong favourites, I think, for the title. Is he from someone that knows Manchester City that's around it a lot? Yeah, I saw their game against Athletico yesterday,

and it very much looked like a pepside in terms of the way they played. they pressed the way that, you know, Pep finished off the season. Last season in a 4-24, there was a little tweak. The winger started to press the keeper and tuck inside and the full back shift round. So there will be little things that we notice, you know, throughout the course of the season when Enzo Moreska does get his fingerprints all over the team in terms of exactly how he wants them to look and how he wants them to be. But I think I always say back to the Man City methodology that, you know,

deeply ingrained within the club is that the plot, players that they have within that team, the depth within the squad allows the manager to be tactically very versatile. And I do think Moreska will start to sort of tweak a few things. And there's little, you know, whether he's going to be more direct than Pett. Pet played a very methodical, you know, contained style of football, especially. He wasn't like that at Chelsea, though, is he was he? No, he wasn't. No, he wasn't. He was slightly different in the way that he played a little bit more open. But I think the team and like what I was saying about the players,

they're ingrained to play a certain way and it always relies on ball retention and fluidity and creativity in the final third and notoriously teams drop off against Citi so they have to come up with answers and being a little bit more direct initially I think will always benefit Citi because they've got players

namely Ealing Harland to be a little bit more direct and I think that I think you make a great point Chris about Roderie he's a player we know his anchoring of the midfield is just outstanding. And I do think though Elliot Anderson, if Roderoy does leave, I think

Elliot Anderson could be an instant hit with firstly city fans. And I think in terms of slotting into that role in midfield that allows them to be creative and leave those spaces behind because he's got the legs to cover ground as we saw out in America at the World Cup. Sammy, I know you're on holiday, so I'm not going to put you on the spot and ask for the exact latest on Roderie. But if you've got it, of course, Quicken.

You're all right to ask me. Never fully on holiday, never fully on holiday, are you? Yeah, look, those, um, those, those, discussions are ongoing. I think if all the indications are to be believed at the moment, that Rodry will become a Barcelona player before the window closes. But City are the kind of club that prepare for this, aren't they? Like, even that they're kind of, they knew that probably this was going to happen and they're doing their own business accordingly. So as we've already sort of established the signing of Elliot Anderson earlier this summer,

certainly bolsters their midfield and gives them, I'm not saying an absolute light for, like for Rodry, but someone who is adept at anchoring a midfield, but also I think he can offer maybe a bit more bursting forward. And they are also in talks over signing Bwadi, the exciting Tunisian midfielder who plays for Lille. And that's another deal I expect to move in the coming days. And again, all the indications that I'm receiving at the moment, and I think BBC Sport are receiving at the moment is that City believe that they are well placed to get that deal over the line

probably before the start of the season. So if Barcelona can reach that threshold that city want and can reach the kind of money that city are asking for, I think we will, if you connect the dots, Rodri will end up at Barcelona and Bwadi will end up at Manchester City. And it's interesting where this kind of leaves Arsenal, I think,

as well because they're one of the few top teams that have got the stability. Mikhail Artessa of course, been at the club now for six and a half years and they'll start this season as Premier League champions. But on last week's Monday Nightclub, we were talking about their attempts to recruit Mrs. Junior from Real Madrid. A few days later, it was of course confirmed they'd failed. He's got a new six-year deal at the Burnabay

that kind of leads to the question. Is there a case where the Premier League aren't able to attract the world's best players at their peak? Or do you think that's a bit harsh, is he? Ooh, I was going to say, if you didn't say the last bit of that question at their peak, I would say we've had DeBrona, Harlan, Mo Salah, just to name three, you know, in recent years. And it's an interesting one. Personally, I don't think Vinny Jr. is the right fit for Arsenal in terms of a footballing method.

I think it would have been an excellent signing, you know, kind of from the outside, you know, Vinny Jr. coming to Arsenal, Premier League champions. but I think in terms of the intricacies of the way Arsenal play, I don't think it's a player they should necessarily have been going after. Why wouldn't he be the right fit? I think the way that Arsenal play, you know, they're extremely well coached, they're tight on the ball. You know, they're very methodical in their build.

You know, the wingers are very, I don't want to use the word restricted, but they're very, very coached in terms of the way they play. And we've seen that with Saka, Martinelli, Trossard, you know, he's now left. I think, I don't know, I just don't know whether that, That flare, that Brazilian flair of Vinny Jr. would have been the right fit at Arsenal. In layman's, is he? You're saying that Vinny Jr. ain't tracking back? Is that basically what you're saying? Yeah, you need to do. As PSG told us, you defend and you attack with 11 to win the Champions League.

Well, I was going to say there, though, is he is there a case that Mikhail Artetta's trying to, was trying to evolve his team if he did want Vinicius Jr. If reports are to be believed. Yeah, I think that's... He was looking for something different. Something to maybe surprise opponents. Arsenal were doing something different other than set people. I know they do a lot more than that.

Yeah, you know what I mean. Spot on it, like Stardust, but I think they've got that in a different way in Bruno Gimeridge. In, you know, his, the way that he gelled with the fans at Newcastle, a huge favourite. And I think the way he plays will get people off their feet in a different way to the way that Vinya Jr. would. But I think Arsenal ended up better off in this situation.

Granted, not the same position to Phil. But I think as well with Tazolis coming in from Club Bruges as well, the type of player he is, I think he will thrive at Arsenal in terms of the type of player he is. So I think it's an interesting one. I'm all for the football methodology over anything on social media and stuff like that. But Vinny Jr. He certainly would have up their social media following,

but football's not played on Instagram. Chris, I guess that maybe Izzy's kind of answer, has answered my initial question about, does the Premier League not suit those type of flare players? Is that why maybe sometimes players like Vinicius Jr. don't come to the Premier League, these rogues? Well, I'm not so sure. I think Vincius Jr., look, if he went to Arsenal,

I think Arsenal fans would be, you know, very excited about it. By the way, so would all. Yeah, and so would we all. I think if you asked Arsenal fans, who would you rather have playing off the left-hand side? Would it be Martinelli or Venisius Junior? They'd say Vinicius Jr. But, you know, I do take Izzy's point that, you know,

he's not one who really likes to work hard defensively. maybe he'd change under Michael Artetta. But the general point about players signing from the Galacticos to Premier League clubs, I think is the fact that why would anybody want to leave

Real Madrid? You know, Real Madrid who is the most successful, arguably the biggest club in the world, the most successful European team of all time. I mean, that's, you know, that's the be all and end all, isn't it? And I think most players would view coming to

the Premier League as a step down, whether, of course, the Premier League is stronger than La Liga, but that's still not the point. I don't know many players who would, you know, want to leave, you know, with Real Madrid in their peak. You know, any Premier League player, if you offered them the chance to go and play at Real Madrid, every Premier League player would jump at that. It doesn't work the other way around. The murder of Tupac Shakur has generated nearly 30 years of rumours, conspiracy theories and unanswered questions. Now the mythology is about to meet the courtroom as the trial gets underway

and Nevada prosecutors try and solve the mystery of who killed Tupac. I'm Manitanda Dowity and for the BBC's Fame Underfire podcast, I'll be inside the courtroom every day and I'm bringing you with me. What really happened on the Las Vegas strip that night in 1996? It's time to separate fact from fiction. Join me for Fame Under Fire, the Two Park murder trial, the testimony, the arguments, the moments that matter and all the legal analysis. To get all the updates, listen and subscribe on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts,

so you never miss an episode. This is the Monday Nightclub with Kelly Summers on the Football Daily podcast. On the open road, conditions change. Your composure doesn't have to. But technologies like terrain response to and clear sight ground view, Range Rover Sport brings confidence and control the challenging conditions. Explore more atrangerover.ca. Support comes from Wise.

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Join millions, saving billions on hidden fees. Be smart. Get Wise. Download the Wise app today. apply. Focusing back in on the Premier League and Marcus Rashford because more than 18 months since his last appearance for the club. He is of course back in the fold at Manchester United. Sammy, if I'd have told you this was going to be the case just what 11 days out from the start of the Premier League season just a few months ago, what would you have said to me? I would have said that there was very little chance of that, if I'm being honest, Kelly.

He had a relatively successful season on loan at Barcelona last year. I think we can maybe get carried away with the level of impact that he had there last season. But I don't think we can deny that given what had gone before at United in maybe the previous two seasons, that his performances at Barcelona last year did represent an upward trajectory. And there did appear to be certainly a place for him permanently in that squad. and I think for so long, for a number of weeks, certainly towards the end of last season, all the talk was could United and Barcelona reach an agreement

that was below the option that they'd agreed for the permanent deal for him to go there. The way it transpired was that, obviously, Barcelona had then turned their attention to doing this deal for Anthony Gordon, obviously Rashford's teammate and competitive for that left-hand side in the England squad. And I guess Rashford's ultimate ambition and his dream of staying at the New Camp vanished into thin air with that Gordon deal. Because I don't, make no bones about it.

Marcus Rashford thoroughly enjoyed his time at Barcelona. And he wanted to stay. And I think he felt settled there. I think he felt like he was, had been provided with a new lease of life for a career that had been a little bit stop start at United. So Sammy, does he go back to me? Manchester United, Sammy. Does he go back to Manchester United, Marcus Rashford, with his tail between his legs a little bit? I don't think he goes there with his tail between his legs, but I don't think players of that stature and certainly of that quality would look at it that way.

Maybe from the outside looking in, and that may be the narrative. But I think he will go there confident that he can maybe recapture some of the form that saw him climb the ranks at United and become, yeah, become one of their key players during that post Sir Alex Ferguson era but there's a lot of work to be done there right so I think repair his reputation

I think he almost left there with the reputation as being a bit of a busted flush that may sound harsh but I think there is certainly a rebuilding process that needs to be done over the course of the next few months but I think in Michael Carrick he's got a manager that will give him a chance

I think he's got a manager there that knows what he's got in Marcus Frasford and that if he can get a tune out of him, he's got an effective left-sided attacker who can contribute assists and a goal. And if he can inspire those kind of performances that we know that he's capable of his... I don't want to say this,

but it would also almost be tantamount to a new signing for United if, and I think I stress it's a big if at the moment, if he can recapture some of that early United's It'll be interesting, won't it, Izzy, to see how the fans do receive him. But let's not forget he was leaving. He left a Manchester United that looks very different to the Manchester United that he's going into now. I mean, Michael Carrick, the Manchester United under Michael Carrick feels very different to Ruben Amarham's Manchester United.

And Carrick was a teammate of Marcus Rashford for three seasons. So he knows what he's getting himself into, so to speak, doesn't he? And maybe it's a fresh start for everyone. Yeah, and it feels that way. And I think, you know, Marcus Rashford didn't burn bridges enough to then go back with his tail between his legs back into United this week at Carrington. And I think that, you know, I think like Sammy and Chris both alluded to, he's got so many strength as a player that are an asset for any manager because of his pace and the gift of pace and the way he plays. And he's a transition footballer and the way that he played a few seasons ago under 10 hague, you know, and he was on fire in terms of his golf scoring form. and the amount of times he broke through, you know,

defences and finished at low shots into the corners. He's a player who, on his day, has so much ability. And that's why, you know, his lone move at Barcelona, he was then in Tuchel's World Cup squad. He had a, you know, a bit part to play in England's quest to get into the World Cup final. And obviously they fell short, but he was a part of that. And to be in that England squad at this time, I think, says a lot.

And I think that he is a player that I think, think adds something different to what Manchester United have in those wide areas as well with Cunya Ahmad and Burmow as well. I think he's, you know, slightly different adds a different dimension to that if they can find a way to re-establish what his ability is within that squad. And like you say, I think having a blank canvas, you know, with the manager in Michael Carrick and Steve Holland and the impact that we've heard that he's had on the group in terms of stabilising it and adding this, you know, level of humility and calmness around the. camp, I think Marcus Rashford, if he can create a really good relationship with the coaching staff and his teammates, I think it's a completely clean slate for him.

And I think he could be a big hit. And from a fan's perspective, he's homegrown. He's one of their own. And they would never turn their back on a player of his calibre, you know, a Manchester lad. And I think there is definitely. A lot of fans previous were unhappy with when he was called. Let's not forget. He's been called out by his last two.

He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has. He has.

He can't sort of sugarcoat it. He let himself down. I completely agree. I completely agree in a sense, but there's always two sides to every story. And things didn't turn out well for Ten Haag and things didn't turn out well for Rubin Amram. And, you know,

the players had their opinions and players who have so much attachment to a football club that can feel it failing in the way that we know. We know he was late. We know he was late. He was late at times. You know, we know he likes a night out. Yeah.

Yeah, I think a lot of players do. And I think that he's been in the firing line and maybe his status is because he is a homegrown lad. There is more of a brighter spotlight on him when he does make those lifestyle choices that maybe he needs a different perspective and I couldn't think of anyone better than Michael Carrick to stabilise it and to kind of dilute the noise around Marcus Rashford

and give him a platform to shine. But I completely hear you. But I would say from an outsider's perspective, I would say there aren't enough bridge has burned for Marcus Frasford not to be a healthy return for him into the club if he does end up staying there in this window. Do you get the sense, Sammy, that if it hadn't been Michael Carrick that was the manager, this might have played out differently? I don't know, because after the Barcelona dream fell through for Marcus Frashford, I certainly think United would have listened to offers for Marcus Frashford. I'm not sure that they've been there yet.

And we should stress there's still two and a half weeks ago of the window. maybe this could change. But I think the fact that he has ended up as back at United and being re-in, as it seems, being reintegrated into the United Squad has been partly dictated to by the market. And I think if, you know, if they were some attractive suitors for Marcus Rashford this summer, I think he would probably certainly want to have listened to those. to those offers. I think United would probably also want to have at least listen to those as well.

But they are where they are. Whether or not either of them are comfortable with the situation is kind of in many ways. Neither in or there. I think they both need to make it work because he's got, he's such an asset to the team. But I think financially, United would also recognize that he's an asset as well. and if they can't get the kind of level of finance or the level of money that they'd expect for him, then, you know, they, as we're seeing at the moment, they will hold on to him and try and make the most of the, from a sporting perspective,

from the asset that they've got on their hands in Market Shashville at the moment. How does he move forward from this, Chris, because there is obviously, as Sammy said, still time in the window. He could still depart the club, and maybe that'll be a move that will suit both. parties but there's also a very real scenario that he stays and is a Manchester United player does he need to say anything does he need to post anything or does he just need to let his football do the talking does he need did you does he need to post anything on social media I know you're a bit old but we live in the time well no but I the reason I ask that is because

there was a lot of criticism wasn't there when or a lot of people talking when he posted on social media and thanked everyone except Manchester United it felt like for his England call up and then he was quick to say that wasn't meant to be a dig at Manchester United Of course, social media these days is a platform If players have a message, they can use it to get it across. It doesn't interest me. I don't think that that will interest honestly, Manchester United fans, the sort of real supporters.

What will interest Manchester United fans will be? Which Marcus, which version of Marcus Rashford will they see? We all know, and Izzy said it and Sammy said it. On his day, both said it. On his day, he's an outstanding player. You can't get away from the fact that he treated the last two Manchester United managers, whether it doesn't matter how well or badly they did. He treated them with a lack of respect.

You would think that the fact that, I mean, they played together, Michael Carrick and Marcus Rashford, you would think that there would have been some sort of relationship there. Michael Carrick is an extremely intelligent guy, and he knows that if he can get the best out of Marcus Rashford, then he will be on to something. but this is all about Marcus Rashford coming back and really knuckling down, training hard, showing the correct attitude. And if he does, I think that he'll be fine, more than fine.

And I think Manchester United will really, really benefit. But I still think that that's a big if. It's interesting, isn't it? Because it goes back to the conversation we had about Arsenal trying to find a left-sided attacker. And Sammy, they could, they literally have one that I'll use the phrase that's been used about 100 times in this chat on his. on his day is brilliant. And we saw, I think, glimpses of it for England this summer, didn't we? I mean, you know as well as I do that he went out early to train before he joined up with England at the end of the L'League season to ensure he's in the best shape possible. So all the things that

we're hearing now are that this is a Marcus Rashford in the right, in the right kind of headspace, ready to knuckle down? I think absolutely right, Kelly. And I think that is, that certainly his mindset, from what I understand, I think there is a will and a determination. to make the most of the situation that he finds himself in. And I think where this helps him is that he's in familiar surroundings. It's not like he's going to another new club to have to prove himself again. Manchester United know what he can do. Michael Carrick knows what he can do.

There are still players in that squad who are played with him who know, again, to use the phrase that we've all used on his day, how special a player he can be. and whether there is a move for him later on in the market, I'm not sure there will be now, but I just think that would have come to fruition list and never say never in the transfer window. But yeah, I think he's just got to make the most of the opportunity

that he finds himself in. And I think Chris has said it and Izzy said it, that because he's got this prior relationship with Michael Carrick, I think that will leave certainly Carrick in perhaps a better situation and a better situation and a better standing than Ten Haag and certainly Ruben Amarim did because I think it's just human nature

when you've played with someone and you've got sort of a deep respect for someone which I'm sure Michael, Marcus Frasford has for Michael Carrick that you just won't want to let them down and you will want to do what you can for your, you know, do what you can on the pitch for your former teammate

and a guy that you've, you know, spilled blood, sweat and tears for on the training field and on the, on the field of battle in the 90 minutes earlier in career. So I think he's got all of the building blocks there to make a success of his return to United. I guess it would just be, as you correctly said, Kelly, it will be in his mindset. It will all be in the mindset. How does he view this situation?

Did he see it as a step back? Or does he see it as, well, it is an opportunity to rebuild his reputation in the Premier League? Whatever happens, I get the feeling it won't be the last time we talk about it on this program or any other. Now, on the Monday Night Club, we're going to hear the story, and this is brilliant, of an incredible link-up between a Brazilian team and an English football fan. Now, the top flight side, Corachiba, wore the name of Norwich City fan, Johnny Butcher, on the front of their shirts for their Saturday game. It was to show support for Johnny, who was diagnosed with motor neurone disease back in February. Now, Johnny is married to Anna Butcher, who is originally from Coroceba, and I'm delighted. to say that both Anna and Johnny

join us now. Hello to both of you. This is just such an incredible story and shows just how powerful sport and football in particular can be. So Anna, firstly, can you tell us a little bit about how this link up came about? Hi everyone. Yes, of course. So I am originally from

Kuditsiba Brazil. And before Johnny even met me in 2022, Norwich City, which is Johnny's Long Life Club, actually partnered up with Kuditsiba. And they started selling Kuditschiba. Chibba shirts at the club and Johnny was so invested. He was so interested and then when he met me and he found out I was from Kudichiba, he was like, wow, this is like fate. This is meant to be. I have to be a Kutichiba supporter as well. So all the times that Johnny went to Brazil, he had on the top of his list, wow, I have to go to a Kutichiba game. But it just was never able to happen. We just couldn't make it work. First time it was sold out. Second time, they didn't have any home game. So, We just kind of thought it wasn't going to happen until Kuditsiba heard about our story.

It must feel so incredibly special for you, Anna, giving everything that you and your husband are going through. But to see his name on the shirt of the club from your hometown, something that must have just felt like it can never be possible. I know. It still feels surreal. We can't even believe the amount of messages we've been getting of people that have traveled from other states just to be at this game. hours and hours to be part of it, to be supporting us. Some players as well from Kuditsiba have reached out to us, including the player that fell in the hole during the game. Bless him. He said it was an honor to represent Johnny on the field, on the pitch.

And we still can't believe that it happened. Honestly, it's surreal. For those of you that are just listening, you won't be able to see that both Johnny and Anna are wearing. Have you both got Brazil shirts on? We do. Yeah, I love that. That is brilliant. Yeah, they're both wearing their Brazil shirts. I wasn't sure if Johnny was actually wearing a Norwich shirt there because similar colors, of course. But Anna, can you tell us a little bit more about Johnny's condition?

Yes, definitely. So Johnny was diagnosed with motor neurons disease, a very fast progressing ALS in February of this year. Johnny was only 28 years of age when he was diagnosed. And it was the most devastating news you can ever receive, especially when you're only one year and five months married. So we had just started our lives together. We had so many dreams, so many plans. And we at that moment felt like everything was being ripped from us. And this bucket list that Johnny has created of dreams is kind of a way to keep us going, to keep us motivated and positive in the midst of the storm that we're going through.

I was going to ask you about that because we've got an article on the BBC website at the moment about this bucket list. And I'm told that Norwich City have also helped you tick off a lot of these wishes that your husband has got. But what else is on there and what kind of things are you getting to do? Definitely. I think I'm going to let Johnny talk about the Norwich City experience because that meant the world to him.

And he's even so excited that we have Chris here today. I'm sorry. I hope the reality isn't disappointing you. Yeah, I was going to say, hi, Johnny. Hi, Anna. Yeah, I've heard all about your bucket list. I heard you went into the training ground and had lunch with Philip Clement, and I know he used to be the Rangers manager.

I'm forgiving him with the job that he's done. Norish, tell us about that. That was a really special experience because I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years and just having the opportunity to see all the plans. players up close and the coaching staff and the backroom staff was really special. And the way that they really included me in their day, I felt like I was part of the club, which, yeah, as I said, it was really special. And a lot of the time as Norwich City fans, we say that Norwich is a family club.

that day that I had really kind of showed that to be true the way that they treated me. I heard you were in the director's box as well and met one of your heroes Darren Huckabee. Oh yeah. I did and he signed on the first season that I had a season ticket. So as a child always looked up to him

and yeah, that was a really special experience as well. Very down to 12th guy and really, really glad that I was able to meet him. I know it must be such a difficult time, Johnny, but I'm so pleased to hear that football and a football club, a championship football club is making some of your dreams come true. That is so incredibly special. And you've got to speak to Chris Sutton as well.

I'm glad Chris has put a smile on someone's face this evening. No. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I grew up in Elston as well. Oh, that's where my dad used. to be the teacher at the high school there. Johnny, up to Elston High School.

There you go. My nanny used to live in Helston. Wow. Even more of a connection. Thank you, Johnny, Anna. It's been so lovely to speak to you, so special. And I'm just, as I said, really pleased that football is providing you with something so incredible. And it certainly sounds like you've got some other incredible experiences coming up as well.

So I hope you can enjoy those. Thank you so much for coming on the Monday Night Club. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. And you never know. I'm wondering if Norwich getting promoted to the Premier League might be on that bucket list as well, Chris. Maybe you'll see that. What do you think? Well, I fancy us this year. Johnny, do you? I think you might have gone. That was yes. I can hear him from miles away saying yes, he fancies it. He fancies. I should have asked that when he was still on.

But what a brilliant story. I could have spoken to those two all night. But that's it for the Monday Night Club this week. Thanks to Chris, Izzy and Sammy. And thank you for listening. This goes beyond what the KGB. He did back in the days. Conspirity theories and the Football World Cup is there ever won without the other? Well, I've been digging into one of the very best

back in 1994. Guy from Iraq gets a red card for a, you know, a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague and from BBC 5 Live, this is Sports Strangers Crimes Presents, Shadows on the pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds. Support comes from Wise. smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. Fet up with losing out to hidden fees when you send money abroad with your everyday bank. Choose the smart way. Wise. You can count

on the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google. No one welcome surprises. Plus, ditch that where's my money feeling. Most transfers arrive in under 20 seconds. Join millions, saving billions on hidden fees. Be smart. Get wise. Download the wise app today. T's and C's apply. Bye.