Football Daily - MNC: Manchester City close in on Arsenal

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

Mark Chapman is joined by Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Andros Townsend on this week's Monday Night Club.The team start with a full breakdown of Manchester City's 2-1 win over Arsenal, and the run-in for the title. Who do the panel tip to win it now? Should Havertz have started over Gyokeres, and do Arsenal lack 'stardust' in their side?Next on MNC, the team discuss Chelsea's ongoing poor run of form and whether it's down to Liam Rosenior, plus the financial implications of missing out on Champions League football.Who is Bournemouth's next head coach Marco Rose? German football expert Rafa Honigstein joins the pod to look at Iraola's successor.And finally with relegation to League One looming for Leicester City, the team reflect on their fall from grace, 10 years on from winning the Premier League.Timecodes: 01:09 First reflections of Man City 2-1 Arsenal 08:24 Can Arsenal fans take hope from the performance? Plus, the psychological impact of losing 14:18 Havertz starting over Gyokeres, & do Arsenal lack 'stardust'? 19:52 Cherki the 'maverick', & is this a typical Guardiola team? 27:37 The remaining fixtures for both teams 31:18 Chelsea's losing streak continues, & is it Rosenior's fault? 44:31 Bournemouth announce Marco Rose as new head coach 50:38 Leicester City on the verge of League One relegation

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Their company's success helped build a nation. The company is such a big part of Korea's economy. But who are the family behind one of the world's tech giants? The major corporate empire that we now know today. Samsung. Inheritance Samsung from the BBC World Service explores the real-life dramas of the Lee family. There's a succession-style drama underneath of all this.

Inheritance Samsung. Listen on BBC.com. the BBC app or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. It's the Monday Nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily podcast. Welcome to the Monday Nightclub, Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Andros Townsend are all with us. Coming up, we'll discuss the Premier League title race. We'll look at Chelsea's awful runner-of-form.

Euroleague's Raffa-Honogstein will join us to discuss Bournemouth next head coach. And we'll finish with Leicester's potential relegation to leave one. There is only... By the way, where are you, Andros? Where in the world are you at the moment? Because you always join us from an exotic location. I'm in Kanchanaburi in Thailand. Very nice.

Where are you at in your season? We have three games left. We've had five managers this season and won four games. Right. Okay. Would you allow me to keep asking you about your experience? No, let's talk about Kanchanaburi and the city. Andros, what's been the problem?

What's been the issue? Probably losing games, Roy? I'm looking for something deeper than that, Chris. On big wages. Very big problem. Oh dear. Well, we'll leave that. We'll return to that subject

on another Monday night club, maybe. We have to start with Sunday's game at the Etihad. Manchester City now three points behind Arsenal. Win at Burnley on Wednesday and they will go top of the table. They will be level on points.

They'll have a better... They'll either have the same goal difference or a better goal difference, but they will have scored more, and therefore that will take them to the top of the table. Let's do it from an Arsenal perspective, first of all, because we have this email from Peter Gory, and I think this is a really, really good email,

because it also plays into the golf, so I quite like that. But Andros, he says, Hi, Hi, All, it occurs to me that Arsenal are in a similar position to Rory Macquarie after 72 holes of last year's masters. Famously, his caddy, Harry Diamond, said to Rory, as after he bogeed the 18th, and then it meant a playoff with Justin Rose, Diamond said to Rory,

we'd have taken this at the start of the week. Similarly, I believe every Arsenal fan would have taken the current situation at the start of the season. Is that a fair... You're wincing, but I quite like that comparison. It's a very good and very fair comparison, but you can't live life like that. situation, Arsenal, been in, they've been in the pursuit of this Premier League title

for how many years, 20 plus years and the situation they got themselves in over Christmas and in the new year. They withstood Manciti's winning streak. I think it was the turn of the year. Manciti had a winning streak. They withstood that. They kept their lead and to now lose that in the last few months of the season, you can't think about we would have taken that. they have blown it. It's still in their hands. Goal difference is still in their hands, but they have blown the situation

that they came into the new year with. So I think they'll be disappointed, but Arta will have to rally the troops and have to refocus again and put things into perspective and it is all still to play for. Do you think, and this isn't a dick

at your team's situation in Thailand, but do you think you can reset with five games to go? I think it's still, difficult when you have a team like Man City chasing you. I think it's very, very difficult. We've seen Liverpool try to do it over the years with their best team, with their best manager, Juergen Klopp. It's very difficult when you have Man City chasing you. You know you have a team which can go on five, six, seven, eight game winning streaks at the end of the season.

And I feel Arsenal have really felt that pressure in the last few weeks of Man City chasing them, of Man City closing the gap. And although they gave a great effort on the weekend, it was just Manciti's quality in the second half, Manciti's quality and their bravery to continue playing, really was the difference on the day. I'd slightly disagree. I think that Arsenal players can think like that. Want to reset. Yeah, and probably need to think like that.

People talked about the League Cup final, whoever win that would psychologically have the edge. I mean, just watching the game yesterday, I didn't feel that Arsenal were. bad in the game at all and I didn't say I didn't think that I didn't feel that they felt inferior Do you think they were better yesterday than they were in the league cup final? Yeah I do yeah yeah much better I mean they hit the post twice you know Manchester City hit the post I thought they carried a threat I mean I um you know I thought they were they were brave in the way that they played I watched them in uh in the midweek in the in the champions league and I thought out of possession really good as they always are in the final

or third didn't carry a big enough of a threat. But I think that, you know, Arsenal, with what has happened, losing the game, now everybody is talking like this is over. You know, the league is over, and Manchester City will just go on and romp it. But I think if you, you know, if you're balanced and you look at the fixtures and Arsenal have beaten every team this season, who they have to play, I think, you know, Pepp is, you know, understanding that City have tough games, it's not over by a stretch

and Arsenal are really capable of winning all five games so I don't think that psychologically yesterday's game that they were damaged had they gone up there and tried to play such a negative game and Manchester City you know would have ended or had Manchester City ended up winning two

nil you think blind me but that didn't feel like an Arsenal team who felt they were inferior and the fact they've lost now it may just Galvin the team to, you know, to really strengthen. I think Odegaard coming, you know, back in and hoping that he can find form is a big deal.

And we would be talking differently had Havert buried the header at the end, which he should have done. You speak about psychological, Chris. What do you think of, so at the end of the game, Odegaard goes to Declan Rice. Declan Rice says, it's not over yet, it's not over yet. That kind of insinuates that Odegaard was maybe a bit more negative to Declan Rice.

does that not give you the psychological fit that may be Arsler. You're guessing there, aren't you? We don't know what he said, O'Degarde. You know, you're assuming he said that. You know, maybe he said the same thing or words along those lines to Declan Rice. But just trying to put myself in an Arsenal player's position. And, you know, and the email is pretty accurate and apt. They are still in a good position where it's in their hands.

It's not out of their hands. you know, it's... It is slightly... I mean, I take the point of the email, but it is slightly the case that, yes, Arsenal would have taken this position at the start of the season, but they probably wouldn't have taken it

at any point between, like, the 1st of October and two weeks ago. They would have regarded that as a drop. You can't ignore the fact that the situation, as Andrews said right at the start, that the situation has changed since the start of the season. Arsenal created loads of good chances, and look, the essay one, the Gabrielle one that hit the post,

even the Havert's header, you're talking about millimeters. That's the difference between Arsenal getting the point where we're sitting here saying, what a mature, sort of intelligent, assertive performance from Arsenal and, well, they're kind of blowing the title.

You're talking about tiny, tiny millimeters. It's just a spin of a ball. I think that is absolutely true, but at the same time, throughout this season, Arsenal have had loads of times where they look like they're completely in control of the title race

and they've just not quite been able to... Why do you think it's not? not in their hands, sorry. Oh no, it isn't? Well, it's weird, isn't it? It's in both of it. It's in both of their hands. It's a shootout. It's who can straw the most goals. So it's still in their hands? Yeah, no, it is. It is in their hands, but it's also in city's hands. It's a complicated philosophical question, Chris.

But bizarrely, do you not think that Andros, that the, parking Peter's email now, that the performance actually could give Arsophon, more hope than the result. I mean, obviously the results isn't going to give them hope. But there are quite a lot of positives out of how they played.

I think Chapas, if this game is in October, November, then you can take the positives of the performance. They went to the Etterhead, they were brave, they pressed in the first half, they created chances. But when you're in the running, unfortunately it's all about results and the fact that they didn't get the result, the fact that is

now in Man City's hands as well as arsenals, you can't really take many positives from the performance, unfortunately. Yeah, I know what you're saying. And, you know, having played, same as you, andros in the dressing room after the game, that would have felt sore.

But, you know, they don't have any other choice, really, than to pick themselves up, dust themselves down, and go again. They can't, they can't, what mustn't happen is for the players to feel sorry for themselves. It's like Rory said, it was a close game. Had Havert scored, you know, had a break of a wall, things could have been different.

But all I would be focusing on, I'd be focusing on the next fixture, Newcastle, who are in dire straits at this moment in time, and just think about winning that. They've got Burnley at home. So, you know, you think about Arsenal could get a cricket score against Burnley. So it is still very much in their hands. They've just got to focus on what they can control. You know, last night would have felt sore,

but that's, you know, that's gone now. Chris, I've never been in a title race. My career, I've been at the bottom end. But I remember my last season, the Premier League and Luton, and we were 3-0 up at half-time at Bournemouth. We lost that game 4-3. If we had won that game, we would have been out of the relegation zone. And yes, you can sort of dust yourself down.

You can get in the dress room, so many games to play for, still in our hands. You can do all of that. But in the back of the mind, you're going into the next game, the next game after that, thinking about those points you left on the table away at Bournemouth where you're 3-0 up. So I think, yes, they will be doing the right things, but I think psychologically it's going to be there.

It's going to be in the back of the mind that they did let that lead slip. I couldn't. That game at that time, Andros fell. In the immediate aftermath, whatever happened for the rest of the season, that was the game that relegated you? 100%.

100%. I agree. And I feel like you can't forget about that. Even now, I go to sleep and I think about losing those points against Bournemouth and it's two years later. these big games, these big turning points, these big leads that you let slip

really do play a part psychologically. There are so many psychological aspects to this actually. I mean, you can talk about performances and you can talk about players and we may come back to some of them. But some of the psychology around this, let me give you one stat here, Rory,

which is absolutely astonishing. Since Mikhail Artetta took charge of Arsenal in 2019, City have won the Premier League four times. But in that period, Arsler have spent more days at the top of the table. Yeah, when you said four times, you paused and I thought that should be the staff. No, 500, five, yeah.

It's a doom dramatic effect, okay, right? They've been top of the... That's on what they used to be. They've been top of the table, Arsel, for 537 days compared to City's 453. And yet it's City have won the four titles. I saw a version of it this morning. I can't remember the exact figures,

but it was something like Arsenal have been top of the Premier League for 800 days since their last won the title, and in that time, City, you've been top for a little bit longer and won it eight times. And there is an element of... Why is he trying to out...

I mean, I've just given a perfectly valid and accurate start, and he's tried to come up with his own that sounds like, he's made up. You don't always have to trump people. All right, I apologise. It's a very good start, chappers, and it does illustrate a point.

I suppose it's... You have to time you run. and that's what Citi R. Excellent at is, is come late March, April, May, they just don't lose games. And I think we mentioned last week that their record in April is, Guardiola's record is like played 29-128 in April, something like that.

And Artetta's win rate in April is down at like 41%. There is a difference, they are, they are able to kill seasons off, they're able to kind of lift it under the pressure. It seems to inspire them, rather than inhibit them. And you can't say that the pressure inhibited Arsenal yesterday at all, but you can probably say it inhibited the mid-8s-Bormouth last week.

The other thing that City haven't done, since they won the league in 2012, they haven't lost a title when it's been a close two-horse race. When they have finished second, they've been miles off. Like the winners have finished on average, 12 points clear of them. Yeah, but I would flip that.

and think of an Arsenal, like, well, maybe this is the year where they do lose a close race. Yeah, but it's less about what, that stat is less about Arsenal psychologically and more focused on, right, City will feel that they've got them now. Like a lion chasing their prey. City will, and it looked like that afterwards with the celebrations. Because they know what they're doing in a two-horse race, they think they've got, them. Well, I think the celebrations were purely because that really is the rivalry between the two, just purely based on that rivalry, that edge. You know, you've got the Harlan Gabriel, you know, battles all over the pitch. You've got, you know, Artetta and Pep. So I think it's, you know, it's more about that. And I think, you know, Pep after the game, he's just, you know, playing things down. He's playing an absolute blinder. I think, you know, it's so big for Mikhail Artetta because, you know, it's so big for Mikhail Arteta because, you know, there will no doubt be questions about his future if they don't get over the line this season.

But I'm not, you know, we are all talking tonight, tonight, like, and everybody has done all day. And since last night, like, this title race is over. But I don't think we are. Well, I think Andross and Rory are. I've called it a straight shootout. Well, you said it was out of Arsenal's hands, basically. I didn't. I said it was in their hands and city's hands, which is just true, Chris.

Yeah, you know, I don't know. I thought it was interesting what you talked about a match of the day last night about the Yocchare's thing. I thought that was fascinating. And then, you know, I can understand people what they're feeling about Manchester City and them getting on a run. Because, you know, who ended up scoring the winning goal yesterday? Harland. And then Arsenal spending that money, where was it? 70, 70 million, whatever it was, 60 million, on Yocchres.

and then in the big game where you want your big striker to step up. I mean, it was a big call from Michael Artetta to go with Havert. But on that then, on that, as you brought that up, the discussion last night, Andros, was when Rune's point was, if he had been bought for 60 million

and wasn't in a titled decider in inverted commas, That would affect his confidence without a shadow of a doubt. And he also wondered what it would do to a team's confidence, actually, in the sense of why is our expensive striker not playing? Now, the flip of that is a whole load of reaction from Arsenal fans that I've got in front of me. I'm a huge fan of Yokorez. He could never put in half the performance that Havert does.

The difference in the level of hold-up play between Havert's and Yockees is crazy. Havert will save our season. Victor Yocchres wouldn't have even been in that position. Yocchres could never find himself in the positions that Havert finds himself in. Yocchres has charged at the goalkeeper all season and never got a goal out of it. Havits did it once today and scored. So you can see where those Arsenal fans are sitting. Yeah, I think, listen, money's changed in football now.

60 million, 10 years ago would have been your main number nine. I think the business Arsenal did in the summer has them in this position, has them in first place. Because last season, they struggled with the depth. They had a strong 11, but they didn't really have players off the bench. They didn't really have players when Odegaard got injured, when Gabriel, when Saliba got injured. They really struggled.

And I think they've changed that this season. They've got Yoccarez as an alternative to have us. They've got Ezer when Odegaard got injured. They've now got defenders who can come in when the centrebacks get injured. So they don't have a main man as such. They don't have a main man. They have depth. and that's why they were seven, eight points clear at the turn of the year.

That's why they are still top of the table because now they do have the depth to match their start and 11 that they had last season. But you say that, but do they have the killer? And the killer for Manchester City is Harland. And his numbers over the last, you know, you look at his numbers over the last few seasons. 36, 27, 22, 23 this season. You look at Arsenal's top goalscars over the last four seasons.

as Martinelli and Oedegarde was 15, then Saka 16, Havert's 9, Yoccherez 12 this season. In title races, and we talk about fine margins, is that going to be the difference? I don't want to be boring about this. Is that not like an economic thing? So Arsenal recognised after the two title challenges in 23 and 24 to kind of last the distance

and to compete in the Champions League at the same time. They needed more depth, like Andrews said, right? So they don't add Madueke and Yoccarez and various others. Mastaira, you know, it wasn't an expensive sign in Hincapier's a loan to buy. But they worked out. We have to kind of have these numbers, 23, 24 players, two in each position, to last the distance, to survive injury so that we're not vulnerable if Satter and O'Degard get injured again. That is why Arsenal are still top of the Premier League and have been top of the Premier League basically all season.

The problem is that if you do that and you are a self-sustaining club, which Arsenal whose wage bill is much lower than, you know, it's still considerable amount lower than Manchester cities, still one of the highest in the world, but it's lower than cities. You can't also have the superstar striker. You have to cut your cloth a little bit. And is that maybe the difference that we're seeing

that ultimately Arsenal's depth has dropped them into this position, but to climb the mountain to get to the top, you maybe need that little bit of extra star dust? But how many killers like Early in Holland are there out there in Warr? World Football. Harry Kane. Maybe Isak last season at Newcastle.

Kane wouldn't have gone to ask me. But there's not many, Chris, there's not many out there. Isak's the one. And it's obviously a weird thing to talk about given the season. He's had, given the season. Liverpool have had, given the season Newcastle have had. But I think there's a legitimate argument to say, instead of signing Maddoweke and Yocke, and Yockeh, should Arsenal have gone for Isaac?

That has always been, I think, the what if around Arsenal this season. But they chose, because I think they've been spooked by one. what happened to Sacher and Olegarde a couple of years ago. They knew that they were reliant on individuals to stay fit. And that's not been the case this season. They've lasted the course. It's just that in those really fine margins, maybe you do need someone who's on the amount of money that Erlin Harlan's on.

It's just that you can't do that and have that depth. Just to sort of compare, and we'll move on to Chelsea very shortly, but there are quite a lot of people comparing, and Jonathan Northcroft has done this in the time, Andros, the Guardiola's treatment of Cherokee and Artetta's

system that Eza tries to function in. And Jonathan says, Artec's system a straight-jacketed Ezzes individual flare. Guadiola's flexibility has allowed Cherokee to flourish. Is that fair?

Can it be compared? Can the two players be compared even? I think that's where Arsenal's success have been over the last few years in the system. They've found a way to be able to compete with the Liverpools and Man cities. And they've found another way. They've found set pieces. They've found compactness. But they've still got the individual quality of the back of that. They've still got your sackers. They've still got Odegas. It's still got the individual brilliance. But they have

to be part of a well-functioning team. And I think that's why Arsenal are in first place and have been competing for titles over the last few years. So I think Eze probably needs to adapt more. The same way he did at Pallas, the same way he did with the national team of England. He has to find a way to adapt and do the ugly side of it and make sure his quality shines through at the end of it as well. Chapas, I don't know if you're quoting Johnny's piece, his excellent piece, instead of the one that I wrote in The Observer out of Revenge for me trying to trump you with a stat. I'm not sure whether that's deliberate. I am most definitely, yeah. Yeah, that's purely out of malice and spice. It's fine. And it will continue for some time.

Cherty is really interesting. Just church, you know, we talked about Harlan previously, he's not being a Guadiola player. And obviously, when they signed Donna Ruma, there was this sense that, oh, he's not a Guadiola-style goalkeeper. You can make exactly the same case about Cherokee. Guadiolla's never really had space in his teams for real Mavericks.

And that was always Cherokee's reputation in France, that he was... I mean, there was the John Texter text that got leaked. I don't remember if you... know if you remember them, in which he was not very complimentary about Cherokee, and then kind of backtracked to bit and so it says his entourage are difficult.

But he always had this reputation of been a real individualist, Turkey, like not the sort of player that an elite team could build around. He was very much a kind of Rodney Marsh type footage. You know what I mean? That kind of did what he wanted and didn't really fit, really talented

but didn't really fit into a team. And I think it's interesting that Guadiole did at the start of the season, maybe try and break him a little bit. Do you remember the Robona assist for Fodor? And what did he say after that? He said, Messi never did anything that was more complicated than necessary.

Yes. You play the simple pass. which is a very unfun approach to football. And Cherokee has been able to kind of hit his way through that. I mean, he gave an interview to Le Kip the other day, which was brilliant and all about art because he's French, and we should all know that he's very French. But he basically said,

I will go back at Guadiola, and he won't eat us thus far, you know, a year in. He's basically said, like, I will interpret football the way I want to interpret it. And Guadiole's had the sense to say, actually, do you know what that is? That's how you get the best out of Ryan Chirky. And I think at the moment, given the season we've had, which as Triss said, have all been about set pieces and all that stuff, to see an actual full-on number 10 playmaker be the decisive player in a title race. That's quite nice.

Rory, do not think, though, Guadiola's philosophy is probably like changing and evolving a little bit because I think he's always had one Maverick. He's always had a Grealish or an Ibrahimovich who he's like, he's had 10 solid players in one maverick whereas now he's got his doku, he's got Cherokee. Semenio you could probably argue is a bit of a maverick as well.

Do you not think he's thinking, right, I'm facing more low blocks, I'm facing tougher defences. I need more maverick players to unlock these defences. That's probably the really nice way of thinking about it that he's identified. Yeah, everyone's really well organised.

You need like individual talent to pick your way through. So is this a very unguadiola team then? Because you talk about, you talk about Harlan not being his kind of you know, what did you say not his kind of player? He's not his kind of striker.

He's not David Bia. Okay. So you're saying that about Harland. You're saying it about... Hang on. What? What? What did Rory just say then?

He's not his type of striker. And this could be completely wrong. But if you look through Guardiola's teams at Barstrand Bayon, he generally hasn't wanted a striker who can get to half time with six touches in a game. That's not something that he's ever done.

I just think that, that you are, once again you're just assuming this. I mean, what does every manager want from a striker? Somebody who scores a barrow load of goals. But Guadiola has previously

made it clear that's not just what you want from a striker, Chris. Well, no, you want everything, but essentially you want the finisher. So to suggest that Pep doesn't want a Harlan type is just, I mean, that's wild even for you. I didn't say Pepp didn't want a Harland type. I said that Pep traditionally has asked for a different type of Ford, which he has.

And the fact that he's now incorporated a team, in fact, built a team to an extent around Harland, that is a sign either of his shifting philosophy. I think Andros would well be right that he's decided that you need individual talent to break down really well-ordinated defences. Or the other option is that he's looked at it and thought, and Dona Ruma had a full air of this, I want the best players so I can win a lead title. That I think is basically where Gradiola is philosophy.

Because that was, until he started huffing and puffing next to me, that was the train of thought I was following with you was, well, if Harland isn't his normal type of striker and Cherokee's the Maverick, and Andros has said, you know, maybe Docu and Semenu are slightly different for him. And Donna Rummer is not the kind of, when you're looking at a goalkeeper and playing with his feet, is not the typical, then this is actually quite a different Guadiola team then. Is it?

there's loads of like Guadiola principles, obviously, and there's still Roger and Bernardo Silver, and there's still the kind of the architecture of all the Guadiole sides, but I think he has, you can make the case that all of this is assumption, but I think if you look at the players he signed, I'm not sure that like full-on fundamentalist ideology PEP would sign those players. I think he actually went out of his way to not sign players like that, whereas at City, he does seem to have decided it, and it might be... He's always evolved, hasn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it might be that he's evolved.

Every season there have been tweaks, haven't there? I mean, you know, they won the Premier League without a striker. It's the ship of Theseus, isn't it, Chris? Well, I don't know that ship. No, so he's replaced all these different parts of his philosophy to the extent. So is it still a PEP team? Does it's PEP's team? But every little bit of the philosophy has changed.

And yet it still carries his signature. But I'm not sure you can look at it and say, this is exactly the kind of vision of football that PEP had. seven years ago. I'm not, I mean, it's really different. The way they play is really different to the, to the way they've, they won that first Premier League title, or they've got to 100 points. Um, ship of what?

Theseus. I'm really worried now that I've got this one. Well, I was going to say, you've given it, you've given it, you've given it, you've given it, you've given it, you've given it, you've got to Greek mythology, because you've got it wrong, didn't you? Yeah, two and a half, certainly. And it was one of our favorite moments of the, of the whole time we've been doing there.

Keep your eyes up. as well. Don't want to see your eyes down on your lap. Just going to check it. Right. Okay. This will be fun. So, Arsenal's remaining games. Newcastle at home, Fullam at home, West Ham away, Burnley at home, Palace away, City have Burnley away, Everton away,

Brentford at home, Bournemouth away, Palace at home, Villa at home. Match the day last night, Andros. Danny Murphy had both teams winning all their remaining games. Wayne Rooney had, City drop dropping point at Everton and drawing there, Arsenal winning all their games,

sitting winning their remainder. So Danny had it going down to goal difference. Wayne had Arsenal winning it. How do you see it? I think Man City win it, but I don't think both teams go flawless between now and the end of the season, especially when you look at Arsenal,

they've got two massive, massive champions league games coming up. Their focus is going to have to be there. And then they've got West Ham away who are fighting for their lives at the bottom of the table. Fulham who are doing well. Crystal Palace on the last day of the season away from home at Selhurst Park.

That's not an easy place to go to. Burnley, potentially, who might have nothing to play for come the 17th of May. So, yeah, I think awesome to draw points as well. What? Do you know? Burnley don't have anything to play for now.

Yeah. They're not mathematically down. That's not getting to that. So you think they can stay up? Well, I'm not saying that. But at the moment, they still have a lot to play for because they're not mathematically down and I'm there on Wednesday.

So you could avoid disparaging them too much. That would really help me. So Andros, you'll go in City, yes? I'm going to City, yeah, of course. Rory. I think Arsenal I've got the easier running, so I'm going to go Arsenal. Chris, do you want help from the Opta supercomputer before you do this?

Yeah, if you want, yeah. Arsenal before the Manchester City game, their chance of winning the title according to the supercomputer is 85%. now it's 73%. City's chances before were 14% and now they're 27%. That's incredible. Do you want me to give you the supercomputer's reasoning?

Yeah, it's plain, speak for the supercomputer. Okay, I'm not responsible for the supercomputer, but I opt to say that it isn't higher for City aside from them having their game in hand still to play. But the reason it isn't high is that their opponents for the running are more difficult. Everton, Bournemouth Villa, all in the hunt for Europe.

Arsenal's last five are all in the bottom half of the table. That's the supercomputer's opinion. But no, I'm with Rory on this. I think Arsenal have all their games are winnable. People look at West Ham, who was scrapping and have improved. But I think Arsenal have got pretty generous pictures. I look at City and you look at Everton away. you look at Bournemouth away

they're difficult fixtures 5 light sports So here's the first ball of this series All the cricket you laugh Lives on BBC sounds Smash straight back down the ground This girl Here ball by ball coverage of the biggest

competitions On the domestic and international circuits It's a board cricket And it's the huge one Choochewish Wuss Settled out of it, sorry mate Cricket on 5 Live Sport

Oh, blipping every ball of this Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Monday Nightclub with Mark Chapman. On the Football Daily podcast. Chris Lutton, Andros Towns, and Rory Smith on the Monday Nightclub. On to Chelsea next, who had a terrible weekend in their bid to get Champions League football next season. They were beaten at home 1-0 by Manchester United. Sixth home defeat in the Premier League this season for them.

They've also lost their last four Premier League games without scoring. and that is their joint longest run since November 1912. Even when Chris was up front for them, they managed to score more often than they are doing at the moment. 1912 was when the Titanic went down as well, Rory.

It was. Vila and Liverpool both won as well. So they're in sixth at Chelsea, seven points of drift of Liverpool, 10 behind Manchester United and Villa. Liam Rossini was asked in his press conference today if he felt backed by the Chelsea hierarchy. 100%.

They've been supportive of me and our daily conversations. Sporting directors involved. They've been magnificent in their support of me and the team. And yeah, we're aligned and we know we need to win games of football in the now. That doesn't go against what we're trying to do, which is give consistent success to this club long term. I think the biggest challenge for any manager coming in mid-season is you want to get to know your players as quickly as possible in your group.

You want to know not just tactical things, technical things, what they're used to, their routines, and you want to make sure that you don't adapt things too quickly from what they used to. That's been a big challenge in terms of the amount of games that we've played, the training sessions that we've had, you know, and also making sure that they're understanding of what we want day in, day out, and that takes time.

So that's the biggest challenge. In terms of the results, they haven't been good recent, and that's something that we really, really need to overcome. It's a massive week. What you're in football for is key games. We've got a huge game tomorrow night and then we go into an FA Cup semi-final against the leads team in form.

That's why you're in football. That's what we want. But now is the time for us to deliver and that's what we have to work towards. They appear to have got themselves in a right pickle here, Rory, don't you think? In terms of Resinia, in terms of the squad, in terms of the amount of debt they're in,

the losses they post every year. which way do you want to go with it? Well, you go with, you go with whichever way you want to. I mean, I feel really sorry for a senior who is clearly a very talented coach, who was building a kind of commendable career, first at Hull, where he did, you know, did relatively good job, and then at Strasbourg where he worked in a kind of environment where, you know, they could be in a European final Strasbourg, so I don't want to kind of diminish them too much.

But it's, you know, you're working with Yunder players. It's a development coaching role. And then he's plucked, from that because Chelsea sort of fall out with their manager who all their players really liked and given this job in the middle of a season with a squad that doesn't have any of the necessary characteristics to achieve the things it wants to achieve. And he does really well at the start. Like we shouldn't forget that Liam Rossini came in and no one gave him a prayer. And within the first six weeks, he kind of, he dropped the wins, he picked up points,

he steadied them a little bit. And then things have got tougher. We've reached the business end of the season. And now, I mean, if they miss out on the champions, given the financial situation, you have to assume that is a massive kind of economic problem for them. I think also in terms of like the optics is probably the right word. I find it really hard to think that he wouldn't be under intense pressure. It just, I mean, Chelsea's ownership see them as these, see themselves as these great disruptors. It's a really bad advert for that kind of Silicon Valley concept of disruption.

I mean, maybe these people don't know what they're doing. maybe when they enter into industries they haven't been in before and decide that everyone's been doing everything wrong. The talking ownership there, are you? Yeah, yeah. I mean, like Winston Stanley and Lawrence Stewart and, so they've all been around football line off. They know what they do.

They have signed some good players. There is no question about that. I think the ownership policy has, I mean, you can't look at it now and say that it's been a success, that it just has not worked. It's four years. And that's, I mean, compare where they are now to where they were then.

I'm not sure you've seen, you could maybe make an argument for some slight progress, but not really, and it's been extremely expensive. Rory, how much financial trouble could they be in if they do miss out on the Champions League places? Well, I mean, if you look at the kind of figures that they're losing every year, they might get away with it to an extent because obviously there's no, just financial fair play, PSR changes next year. So they might be able to to kind of manage it within the new rules, which don't have the, they're not, as they were meant to be, which means as far as I can tell, you can do what you like, effectively. It's kind of regulation without regulation. But there is a real term thing.

I think in football too often we think about accountancy reality and how do these figures look compared to these rules. But you are also like shedding all of that money. That's actual money that's going out. You've signed players on eight-year contracts. You have to pay him. You've given Liam Rossini, I think, an eight-year contract as well. If you sack him, you will have to give him that money. You owe it to him.

That's true of all the managers they've been through. they are kind of just hosing out money constantly. And they've obviously got hugely deep pockets, but there's a point where you can't really sustain that. So I would imagine that everything is kind of balanced quite delicately, and you need that money from the Champions League to make sure everything kind of keeps ticking over. I would guess that if they don't make it,

they will have to be substantial changes to their transfer plans, and that's not great given their cleaning to reinforce the squad. The co-owner, Bedadad Egg Bali, gave an interview last week, which I'm not sure particularly helps the overall situation. It included there is a plan. We reflect on the plan. We try to improve the plan and tweak the plan if it's not working. And then also said, I think we're behind Liam.

Of course, it's a results business, but we think he can be successful long term. Neither of those are particularly helpful, I would suggest. No, and there was a protest at the week. Wasn't there from Chelsea fans? I think Chelsea fans are sick and tired of the club and the way that they are running it and thinking that they are that Chelsea are essentially

a youth development team. And these are Chelsea fans who, for 20-odd years under Abramovich were used to competing at the top and winning things. Rory, you said a moment ago that they have made progress. I'm not so sure they've made progress under Liam Rossini. They've lost six out of the last seven. And the fact that, you know, the Oneg-Bal, you know, talked about wasn't, you know,

basically he wasn't sure whether they're going to stick with Liam Rossini. I think there's a massive end to the season. I think Cole Palmer, did he not say that they need Champions League football? But I like Liam Ressigny. He said everything changes if Chelsea don't get Champions League football. Yep, and you can imagine the pre-Madonnais there wanting out if they don't get Champions League football and having their headstand. The one thing which I do think about Liam Rossini

is the Enzo Fernandez situation, I think that, spoke about this before, I think he has been so soft and I know that he's in a position where he took over and I don't know whether that was, or it seemed to be partly his decision, but partly it came from above. The best way I would put that, if that was Pep Guardiola in charge or if that was David Moyes in charge

and from above, they talked about leaving their star player or one of their star players out for a couple of games for the good of the group, they just wouldn't put up with that. And I don't think Liam Rossini should have put up with that because there is no way

that that was ever going to be a good thing. And if they were going to do it, just leave him out for the Port Vale game, get him back in for the Manchester City game. Every single player, every football club I've played at, you know, would want to play for Real Madrid. What was the problem which Enzo Fernandez said? I don't get that, but I think he's made a monumental error with that, and I think it makes him look weak.

I think he should have stood up for himself there. And essentially, we're all talking about the Champions League, If they don't get it, that's going to be catastrophic for him, so he should have kept him in the team. Chris didn't Mariska lose his job for going after going head-to-head with the hierarchy on some sort of decision. So I don't think he has that sort of authority to really...

No, and that's the whole point. You can't be... I know he's a young coach, but you can't be pushed around and maneuvered all the time. I don't know what you... We don't know. You don't know that he's been pushed around and maneuver. That's what they said, it was, you know,

it was, you know, everyone is. But I think it's on record of saying it was a joint decision. I think he said it was a joint decision. So, you know, come on, be stronger in that situation. I don't know anybody who thinks that that was a good thing for the better of the group. I mean, really, who cares? It was an awful game on Saturday night, Andros,

the Chelsea-Manchester United won. And United sneaked over, first win in over five years at Stanford Bridge. As well as the Champions League side of things, I suppose the painful thing from a Chelsea point of view is that United needed their old heads to carry them through, really. They needed Bruno Fernandez. They needed Casimir.

You know, you could argue that Mbuemo and Cunia, certainly relative to Chelsea's squad, are old heads because of their Premier League experience. Masrawe helping Aiden Heaven as his fellow centre half. That's what struck me watching it the other night, not the quality of the football, but it was United Experience that got them over the line.

100%. And I think Chelsea would probably, I actually probably enjoyed Chelsea's performance the other night. They probably missed that killer instinct up front to put away the chances, but the way they controlled possession, the way they were playing into the number 10s, I really, really enjoyed their performance.

But like you said, Man United, every time I've watched them, definitely recently, It's been, they've been second best, but they've found a way to win football matches and they sit third in the table now, having not really played amazing. So, yeah, I think Man United are doing what they need to do at the moment

to get back into the Champions League, to get into the summer and then maybe improve the squad. But yeah, I was really impressed with Chelsea, even though they did fall to their sixth defeat in seven games. But Chelsea has spent 210 million on Drogh, Gittins, Garnacho, Dallap, and Estevio. I mean that Pedro aside The others have scored four Premier League goals between them

I think that's the problem yeah And that you know And when you talk about everybody talks about this this model And you at the start You know I think everybody can understand What they were trying to do But how I suppose the question is How close are they to actually winning a title

And they just they are they are years away Aren't they? I don't know There's not going to be a switch-flicked where you think, well, Chelsea is just going to, next season they're going to really crack on. And that's the problem. And that's where the frustration is with the Chelsea support. This plan isn't working.

Kukare came out and criticised the club, didn't he, and told them they need more experience in. You've just mentioned the Manchester United experience. Why can't Chelsea get that? Because the plan was to disrupt the transfer market and disrupt the way that football does things. but the idea that you need a mix of youth and experience in football that's not something that needs disrupting, that's just true. It's just a thing that has always been true and will always be true that you can't have a team full of 23-year-olds

because you sometimes have to have people like Bruno Fernandez who is, although I never think of him this way, who is 31, nearly 32 Bruno. You need someone who's been around the block of him. He's 32 on his next birthday. 32 on his next birthday. The, you know, the United, even City on yesterday afternoon, You know, the two players who in those last 20 minutes

and got 63 were Rodry and Bernardo Silver. You need those players who can kind of take the game, shape it to their will, kind of control the situation. Chelsea decided that the entire sort of 150 year span of football history was stupid. And that the two people who, as far as we know, or a handful of people who, as far as we know, didn't really have any interest in football, knew better.

And then you get Cole Palmer coming out, like Couturea, Cole Palmer said to The Guardian on Saturday that there will be, he thinks that they're talking about signings and that he alluded to the idea they might need experience as well. So you sort of think, well, has this just been a bit of a waste of time the last four years, just trying to change something that didn't need changing? It looks like it.

Let's move on. Go talk Bournemouth next. Raff Honestine from Euroleagues joins us. Marco Rose will take over from Andoni, Iroola. A good appointment in your view? A very talented coach. There's no doubt about that. It's already coached at the highest level, with especially Bruce

at Doberman one season, one stuff with Leipzig, perhaps hasn't quite followed up on his early promise by winning the Youth Champions League as a really young coach with Salzburg.

People thought he's going to be sort of the next European club of it, the next Tomast Tochel hasn't quite done that because his stints at Dortmund and Leipzig weren't perhaps quite as successful as people have expected.

He left after only one year at Dortmund when the club and him felt that it wasn't quite the right fit. And Leipzig, after the promising start and winning the German Cup, sort of petered out a little bit. And that's why I think we find him at Bournemouth next season, rather than in conversation or in contention for one of the super clubs in Europe. But there's no doubt that he's a very charismatic guy. He's got experience.

He's done interesting things tactically, very much in the Juergen Klop mold of managers. so I think definitely worth a try with him. Will he, I mean, will he build on what Irola has done, are you not too much difference from what you've seen from Bournemouth and Iroa, knowing Marco Roes? I think Marco Roza is maybe not quite as extreme.

I think Irola and Bournemouth were the highest, most intense pressing side in the Premier League, and I'm not sure Rosa is quite that. that much of an idyllogue when it comes to pressing. Of course, it's important for him. It's his bedrock to give you a bit of context. He was a very ordinary player, a journeyman player, that was lifted to Bundesliga level by virtue of finding himself playing for Mainz under Klopp

and suddenly finding a system that elevated players that were really probably not good enough to play at this level. He managed to play at this level and be successful because the system and the work rate and the effort and the organization superseded everything and brought out something that individually wasn't there in the sum of the parts. So he's got that, but I don't see him perhaps being quite as committed to that amount of pressing and maybe try to be slightly more measured. Now, whether Bournemouth want that or, you know, maybe he has to gobble back to sort of the blueprint of the original model, as it were, has come an interesting debate, I think, as things progress. But you can see why on paper,

Bormouth having looked at a lot of managers, they think, okay, he is, he's pretty much a German version or some version of what we had already. Raff, why do you think his career kind of stalled after all that early promise? Was it, was it that a kind of clash of characters at Dortmund, similar to Tuchel, was it internal politics, was he kind of found out a little bit? What was the what caused it, because there was a point like you say where he seemed like the next big thing. Yeah. It's really hard to put your finger on it. I mean, the first season of Dortmund was perfectly fine,

but when they set together and did a debriefing, they both looked at each other and thought, maybe this isn't really the right fit. And I think it was more, as you're alluding to, more about the human dimension, him and the people above him, that they didn't quite believe in themselves anymore, or in each other, I should say.

probably themselves still on each other. As far as Leipzig is concerned, he started really well. It looked like the ideal fit because this is a guy born in Leipzig, played for Leipzig, I'll be a different Leipzig club, coached for a different Leipzig, and then almost as a homecoming, took over Abbey Leipzig and what looked like maybe an era, then petered out after two and a half years. And I'm not sure why that really was, beyond saying. that Leipzig haven't had any successful long-term managers now in a long time. I think maybe

there's something intrinsic in the model and the way that it's run with a constant turnover in players and the people above there, perhaps not being always super close to the action football-wise. I wouldn't hold it against him, but I think it is a little bit telling that now Bournemouth is, I think, for him, maybe a way back into the elite. lead rather than an elite club coming after him. What other options did he have? Because when Irioli announced his departure at this stage the season, I was a bit surprised. But it says to me that maybe other clubs were circling for Marco Rose and they needed to

get him off the market as soon as possible. Was that the case? He had a few, he had a few inquiries, especially from the Bundesliga, Frankfurt, before they appointed Albert Riera, who I don't think is going to last much longer incidentally. They looked at him. but he was still, I think, I'm right in saying, on the books of Leipzig, or still there was some kind of financial link,

and I think that made it difficult for some of the Bundessega clubs to get him out and to compensate him in a way that befitted his requirements and the existing contract with Leipzig. So I think for Premier League side, it was probably easier to do that kind of deal. And also I think there is a, I haven't spoken to him personally about this, but I think there was a sense that having been at some of the biggest clubs

in the Bundesliga already, that the next step for him was going to go abroad and test himself. When he was at Lightick, he spoke a few times about wanting to coach in the Premier League, and I think for him, that was just the most exciting option. Thank you, Raff. Good to talk to you. Thank you. Fascinating stuff from Rath. Lester could be relegated to League 1

just 10 years on from winning the Premier League title. They're eight points from safety. They've got three games left to play. Lester fan Chris sent us this to MNC at BBC.com. Our club is spiraling. 10 years ago we won the league. Five years ago we lifted the FA Cup. Now we're staring down the barrel of relegation to League 1. We've had five managers since sacking Brendan Rogers in 2023.

There has been no visible board accountability, just repeated mistakes and short-term thinking. Financially, the situation is dire. The last two published accounts, our wages to revenue ratio exceeded 100%. Players were allowed to leave on free transfers, when it was clear they would not sign new deals. It's not bad.

it's mismanagement. Senior players are out of contract this summer and yet they remain on significant wages so we can't sell them. The fan base is fractured. Some remain loyal to the ownership, others demand change. Every Lester fan is grateful to the ownership for what they helped us achieve. The Premier League title and FAA Cup will live forever but gratitude cannot excuse ongoing mismanagement. We are at a crossroads and that is due to a lack of leadership. Chris, a Lester fan. I suppose Chris, it is possible to be both, isn't it? grateful for the ownership for what they achieved but then furious at them for the state that they're in.

Yeah, I think it can be both. I mean, I had a look at the Leicester team which lost at Portsmouth at the weekend. And I mean, it's an incredible team but for them to be in that position, Begovich, Ricardo Pereira, Vestegaard, LaSalle, Luke Thomas, Fatua, Winks, Mavadidi, Deco Dover-Reed, Charadoury, Dacharie,

and then on the bench Jordan Ayu Oliver Skip I mean it's at so I get the anger at the ownership and the way that the club is run but I'm sorry that that group of players I'm afraid should never be

in that position in the championship and I think that they have to have a long hard look at themselves I mean do do they care they should not be languishing down there. One of the things Andros, when we've

covered Lester before, one of the things that was levelled was that the new training ground that they had there was sensational and it molly, for Lester who always had the underdog mentality and that won them the league, that the training

ground that was like a, you know, a luxury spa or whatever, that molly cuddled them and they lost that edge. Where do you stand on that kind of reasoning that a lot of fans would use as an excuse. I think it is an excuse. I don't think you can label having one of the best training grounds in the world as a

negative. I remember when Spurs, when we moved into our new training ground 10, 15 years ago, amazing facilities. You're able to train at the highest level. Sorry? Look where they are now. There's the pattern.

Yeah. Nice training. Yeah, fair, fair point, fair point. No, I just think you're able to do a lot more with, obviously, an elite training ground. You're able to train at the highest level, recover at the highest level. In the gym, you've got the best equipment. Maybe they've got, I suppose that had hotels where you can sleep and recover properly as well. Yeah, you can label many things about Lester, which has gone wrong, but having an elite training ground,

unfortunately, you can't put that as a negative. But I think the squad that you read out, Chris, for that day in a sports, but that is the problem, isn't it? There are some, there's plenty of players there who've played in the Premier League, there's plenty of players there who certainly you'd expect to at least be kind of upper end of the championship, but they are all on massive money. There's an element of kind of buying players who are on the way down rather than the way up. It all feels a little bit kind of a mishmash, like a hodgepodge of players signed by lots of different managers or signed by five managers since 2023. That's what Chris said on that email.

And each of those managers, you know, Les have had directors of football and stuff who will who will oversee the recruitment, but each of those managers will require slightly different things, they want slightly different types of players. And what you get is a club that is shelling out a load of money on a squad that is underperforming and is unable to escape that underperforming squad that doesn't fit together.

And that allegation, I think, is much more, kind of lands at the feet of the owners much more than they built them too nice a training ground. I think that would be, when they built the training ground, it was just they'd won the Premier League probably six years before and they'd won the FA Cup two. two years before.

It was a legitimate thing to do. Is it, is it Rory, shocking, that the Premier League champions of a decade ago could be relegated to League 1? Or, and I don't mean this in a horrible way or whatever, is there an asterisk because it's Lester, i.e., it was such a remarkable story that they won the Premier League?

Yeah, you can't romanticise them being 5,000 to 1 shots to win the lead. and then be like, well, it's absolutely shocking that they've been relegated. I mean, lead one is pushing it a bit, but, you know, they were a fairy tale. And ultimately, this is, you know, Lester's probably historic role in English football is bouncing between the first and the second tier. That's what they are. Lester are, similar to West Brom. They're kind of a yo-yo club.

That's what they've always been historically. So this is a low point for them, but it's not, it's not unprecedented that Lester should be in the third tier. That has happened before. I think along with, you know, Wiggin won the FAA Cup. I think was that the same season they got related. You know, Wiggin had this success and then went down and fell a long way. Bolton didn't win anything, but they got into Europe and fell a long way. Clubs can only survive in that rarefied oxygen for so long,

and then gravity kind of reasserts itself. And it's about how well prepared the clubs are for that bump when it comes. And Lester had, I think, chased the dream too much. they got a bit carried away, maybe thought it was permanent. And the problem is you're then living with like the financial consequences of it, which hamstring you when you try and kind of go again effectively. Roy, I disagree with a little bit because you're right in the fact that the Premier League was a bit of a one-off. But since then, Brendan Rogers did build them back up to competing.

They were in, I think two seasons in a row, they were fighting for Champions League places and just missed out on the last few weeks. So this is a Lester side that is more than just that Premier League title. So it still is shocking that this side who were competing with the best a few years ago is now playing League one football. Yeah, to be fair, that is right. If you think about Rogers winning the Cup, I mean, this decade, that is the fact, I mean, the Premier League title was 10 years ago.

And that is, to be honest, in football terms, that's like a generation of players. That is a relatively long time in football. The FA Cup feels much more recent. decline has been much quicker. I mean, Enzo Maresta got them promoted three years ago. That, and they, that, that, that should have been for Leicester a chance to kind of reset and reestablish themselves as, you know, a team similar to say Palace or sort of

Fulham or someone like that. There's no reason Lester couldn't be like that. Does they also have the allure of being the team, everyone's heard of Lester. Everybody has heard of Lester, does they win the league and as they won the Cup? And it, it's, I think the issue is that they've kind of repeated the mistakes. They didn't learn from what they, from what went wrong. before the first relegation, it compounded it, they go back down and then, I mean,

but Chris says they shouldn't have that many points, but they do have more points than that. They just had six of them taken off for financial. It's too easy to blame the owners, though, with this, because I think in the past, we've talked about sides who have come up to the Premier League and gambled. Have Lester then, by keeping the players

which they have on big wages, just gambled badly and got it wrong. And that's where I do think the training ground thing has something in it. Is there an element of these players just have become so comfortable, a bit of fat cat syndrome, and don't really have the stomach to scrap it out? Well, you would think that a lot of fans may think that. And I think it's legitimate.

I mean, you know, I'm not going to read the group of players out again, but most of them had played Premier League football. I mean, Patson Daka, I think it did come in from Salzburg for like a huge fee. And you even, you know, look at the bench, Oliver Skip, you know, a talented player. How are they in that position? I do think, you know, it is, you know, we have given clubs praise on the Monday night club for gambling. And Lester have just, you know, they have gambled and the owner's desperate for them to get back in the Premier League. I don't know where they are budget-wise in the championship. And yet, you know,

the owner's getting panned for that. Well, that's it. I don't know how to say goodbye, Andrews, really. Shall I say good luck? I don't, I hope it. Good luck. Good luck. Good night, good luck. Hope it picks up a bit. It's sunny outside. Yeah, exactly. Go ahead and enjoy the weather. See you soon. Thank you. See you, mate. Cheers. Take it on. Rory, Chris. Thank you as well. Up next on the Football Daily Pod, a 72 plus EFL award special. Five Live Sports. BBC Women's Football Weekly. The latest news, insights and analysis from across the women's game.

Dame Serena Vigman. Are we including Dame in your title now? You know how much an honour that is? And it's right. You want to play in a way that they can show their skills. So that's what we're trying to do. Win the World Cup. It's a dream.

Listen. With the BBC Sounds app. Their company's success helped build a nation. The company is such a big part of Korea's economy. But who are the family behind one of the world's tech giants? The major corporate empire that we now know today. Samsung. Inheritance Samsung from the BBC World Service explores the real-life dramas of the Lee family.

There's a succession-style drama underneath of all this. Inheritance, Samsung. Listen on BBC.com, the BBC app, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Thank you.