Football Daily - MNC: Nearlymen Arsenal, Liverpool turning on Slot, Spurs crisis continues

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

Former Manchester City goalkeeper Shay Given joins Mark Chapman, Chris Sutton and Rory Smith to review the weekend's key talking points, starting with City's Wembley win over Arsenal. How much will it impact the Premier League title race? Did Pep Guardiola's celebrations suggest he'll be leaving at the end of the season? What could the psychological effect on Arsenal be in the FA Cup and Champions League?The panel also ask whether criticism of Mikel Arteta's decision to start Kepa ahead of regular first-choice goalkeeper David Raya is harsh or justified, before moving onto their North London rivals, Tottenham Hotspur.Spurs fan Jack Hussey and BBC Senior Football Correspondent Sami Mokbel join the MNC to discuss how Spurs can save their season over the upcoming international break. Later, Abigail Rudkin — from The Anfield Wrap and The Redmen TV — explains why Liverpool fans are suffering from their own identity crisis under Arne Slot.Finally, York City boss Stuart Maynard explains the context behind a fascinating National League title race between The Minstermen and Rochdale.TIMECODES 00:20 How important is a trophy win for City's new squad? 04:00 Is Pep going to leave at the end of the season? 07:25 Were Arsenal too lacklustre?  09:45 Was Arteta wrong to start Kepa over David Raya? 12:42 Will this turn Arsenal into the 'nearlymen' in the cups? 18:40 "He didn't put Gunnersaurus in goal!" 24:30 Tottenham's crisis, with Jack Hussey from the 'Rule the Roost' podcast, and Sami Mokbel, BBC Senior Football Correspondent 41:45 Why Liverpool fans are turning on Arne Slot, with Abigail Rudkin from the Anfield Wrap and The Redmen TV 53:40 The National League's incredibly tight title race, with York City manager Stuart Maynard

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And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives. Discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Immanuel Jocci. I'm Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Monday Nightclub with Mark Chapman.

On the Football Daily Podcast. Welcome to the Monday Night Club. Chris Sutton, Rory Smith. And Shade given are with us. Let's start with the League Cup final. I'll start with you, Shera. How important do you think that trophy was? Not necessarily for Guadiola,

although he celebrated it more than I've seen him celebrate a lot of trophies recently. But how important for the new players that have come into that squad that haven't won anything yet, do you think? I think Pep's reaction after the game was quite telling as well. Maybe he didn't think that they were going to win a trophy. You know, that's his reaction was that. It was not over the top, but it was kind of like, you know, getting all the staff in for pictures and this and that.

It was really, you know, buzzing with the win. And you say there's players who have in won trophies within that squad and it's some of the squad, not all of it, it's been a rebuilt squad, new players and stuff. So again, they're going to get a taste for it. You know, I just watched the Premier League was closer because I think we would have said here a month or so ago, you know, if City won the Cup final,

then that'll send the jitters to Arsenal in the sense. But they've got a game in, I mean, well, Carl, come on to the league race. They've got a game in hand and they play Arsenal at the Etiard. Yeah. Win both of those, they're three points. behind. Yeah, but we thought it would be a lot closer to this stage and the Cup final could be like a big psychological blow. I still think there's a big enough cushion

for Arsenal to go on and win the league. Possibly at a canter because I don't think Man City are as consistent as they were before but going back to the Cup final, you know, Pep, the game they played was superb, Arsenal didn't have any real answers. They started the game well Arsenal but after that it was All-City and of course Kepa made a mistake for the first goal

and give great credit to your Reilly because he's popped up with two goals. It felt like that really mattered to Guardiola and that may sound like a stupid thing say, Chris, because you would imagine that every trophy does matter and every win matters. But the sort of ferocity of his celebration for the first goal

when he kicked the advertising boards, as I said yesterday, a bit like Tomoriket's buyer. And then he celebrated the second one, like David Pleat. Yeah, but it's not easy winning trophies, is it? And maybe there was a bit of that in it. And maybe, I think, Shay said, this isn't, this isn't the Manchester City team of previous season. So this season

has been a bit of a struggle and maybe there was that also that you know people talking about the psychological element of it trying to try to put a bit of pressure on arsenal and and certainly you know we're here we're coming for you whether arsenal believe that or not i'm with cha i think that arsenal are a finer i don't think that will affect the arsenal players in any way just you know tried tried to put myself in you know the arsenal players shoes i'd much rather be arsenal at the top of the premier league and uh their their league form has been superbly consistent and I still think both sides will slip up

but it's always good to get that first trophy in the bag and people may view this trophy as if Arsenal, Arsenal Bron for the quadruple, weren't they? You know, if they could, that would be the ones at the bottom of their list, the League Cup. But having said that, it was a good chance for them to lay a marker down on Manchester City and say we're going to win them all.

But no, you know, it's always difficult winning trophies. They dominated though, didn't they, Rory? I mean, they dominated Arsenal. The first 15 minutes actually was Arsenal. But then after that, City were all over them. I don't know. I thought the first half was relatively even, but the second half city went up in here

and Arsenal had no answer. That was the way it looked. It was almost as though Arsenal were trying, I don't know, trying to do to City what City had done to them at the Emirates earlier this season. They were almost deliberately kind of standing off, trying to grind the game down, not... To try and turn it into a game of really fine margins

of a single event, I guess. I thought, I did wonder whether the celebrations were directed more internally, that it was Guadiola celebrating partly for the players in that squad, for whom that is a first trophy or certainly a first trophy with Manciti. Partly, I think, if you show, if someone like Guadiola, who's now, I think, won 19 trophies with Manchester City, if he shows that he really cares, then I think that maybe indicates to the players, to the fans that it's really important.

And the other one is to the fans. I think he was saying, look, this matters. It might only, in inverted commas, be the carabao. but this is a trophy that we care about that I care about, so you should care about it too. Like it was taking a win that could have been treated as a trinket and turning it into something significant.

It has a feeling that's city that Pep's going to leave this summer. I don't know why we're getting that from. I just gave the feeling, you know, just his interviews after games and stuff and just... What, based on yesterday? No, no, not based on yesterday. No, not based on the last few months

and I just think he looks, probably a bit like clop, maybe he just looks a bit tired, he just looks not himself. He's not as, you know, charismatic perhaps at times. You know, it feels a bit of a... Sure, it looks that way from the outside, and I'm only talking just on what my eyes are telling me, you know, and I have that feeling around the club that he might walk away in the summer. And, of course, he can still win a couple more trophies, can't he?

But I don't know, at least he's got one trophy. He's not going to go off the last season at Manchester City. We know no trophies. So there may be a relief from that side of things as well, that he's actually picked up the League Cup yesterday. Obviously, he's still got, he's still got other trophies to go for as well. Yeah, I think that's, I don't know if he knows what he's going to do in the summer yet. but if you listen to stuff he says he said yesterday he was exhausted.

You don't say this every year about Pepp. We do. We can't last forever, Chris. When do you think he's going to go? No, I know, but if you say it every season, eventually you'll get one right. I don't want to be right. I'm just saying that's the feeling they get

and I just look at him and I just feel he's rebuilt this team now and he's going to pass on the baton to the next guy and supposedly Moreska's lined up to take over. So I don't know. I mean, I'm only, you're more in the media than me. Well, that's a hell of a, that's a hell of a one. to chuck out, supposedly Mariska's

lined up as well. If you haven't heard Dad, you've been living in a cave? I've not. I don't think why Viola has made a decision yet. It's a bit harsh on Norfolk that really, shaf, you know. Sorry, all the people are Norfolk. Sorry, yeah. Sunday times, lovely part of the world. A lovely part of the world. Sunday time's best place in the

country to live, Norwich. Is it? Chris, this week, wasn't it? Yeah, it was actually. Yeah, it's just hard to get to. Thanks for noticing. It's a big honour. You know, as someone who lives in the place that won it last year, but didn't even make the top 75 this year. It's a It's a fleeting prize. I don't think Duadeoela knows what he's doing.

I think he does. I think he does. I think he does. Be his day or not. You know, you'll be laughing at me in six months when he's leading him out to the Premier League or whatever again. But I just have that feeling like, you know. Isn't it hard to measure? It's hard to measure from a celebration with her.

I'm not saying because of the celebration. You've had a loss yesterday or won. I'm not saying that. I'm just, that's how I feel about PEP at the club, that's all. Basically everything he's said for the last four or five months. months has had a very strong what I'm going to do on my holidays vibe. He is talking about

when he finishes on a weekly basis and that is new. He didn't use to do that, certainly not with this regularity. So he may or may not have made up his mind but I think it's definitely a possibility that he decides to come. He did bite back last week when someone said that to him in a press conference. He was all you want to see me go you want to see me go. Who says I'm going and all this, you know?

He was a bit twirky. He was a bit twirky. He was a bit twirky. It wasn't twirky. No, he wasn't twirky. That was last night after he won the cup final. That would have been a weird way to deliver that message. What's the word chappers?

Twitchie. Twitchie, yeah. Apologies. Let's stick with twerking. It's not going well, this for me is it? Oh dear, look, you've got another hour and 40 minutes for it to get better. You're fine. Bill Williams sends an email,

MNC at bbc.com.com. I'm 75, and the past three generations of the family have been staunched fans of the Arsenal. We have experienced highs and lows with the club, and some of the lows have been stinkers. Yesterday's performance, or lack of it, was abject. Thank goodness City turned up to play football.

Too many Arsenal players not wanting it. Sacker peripheral, and has been pretty much so since signing these new contract. No comment on the choice of goalkeeper because it's too obvious. It's all very well for the players to come out and say they are strong and in the fight. Yesterday would have been a good place to start. Did it surprise you, Chris? I mean, that kind of sums it up, doesn't it? Did it surprise you how lackluster they were?

A little bit, but they haven't been... Bill in that email said that they, you know, about not wanting it. I never think that that's, you know, that's the case of major final. I think their Arsenal are just, they're just set in their ways this season. They play, you know, they just do enough to win games. You know, they bully teams, you know, lots of been made about the set plays and then they look for... They didn't bully cities. Did they? City won second ball.

City were all over them. Yeah, and that can happen to two good teams going toe to toe. But, you know, for Arsenal, it's, you know, it's always a disappointment to lose a final. But if you were going to lose a contest this season, then, you know, that would be the Carabow Cup. It's just about regrouping. I'd still much rather be in Arsenal's position. They've scored the most goals. They've got the most points.

They've conceded the fewest goals in the Premier League. and I think everybody wants to see Citi really, really push them. But I can't imagine Arsenal panicking within the dressing room because of one defeat against a good Manchester City team. It wasn't a shock result. I mean, it was a 50-50 game. You know, Bill also sort of spoke about the goalkeeping situation. I don't know what Shays view is on Kepa.

The one thing I would say about that is that for Arsenal to work so hard under Mikhail Artetta to all those transfer windows to bring all the players in which he has to have an opportunity to blow on your biggest rival. That's what I don't get why you wouldn't play your best goalkeeper. That was a real chance for Michael Arteta. They won the COVID-Fa-Cup.

Of course, it's a trophy. It counts. But, you know, the way that he's built things, the attention to detail on set plays, doing it a different way. And he has a chance to be ruthless and Biff Pep on the nose. and I think he made a mistake with that.

I really do. Yeah, I mean, it's difficult one of the answer because you look at the opposition and obviously Trafford played instead of Donoruma so people would say he made a great triple save at the start of the game, Trafford and justified why he started and he played in all the other games, as did Keppa, you know?

But the other thing is Pep Guardiola's, what did you say, 19 trophies before, was it? No, he's won 18 of 22 cup finals. Okay, he's won a lot of trophies, let's say. Yes. And Artet obviously has not won a trophy since 2020. And, you know,

I know he's talking about loyalty towards Kepa and he owes that sort of, you know, harmony within the dressing room. Well, all right. But I was going to say, Chris is right,

he owes it to the Arsenal fans to get his hands on the trophy. And when you get to the final, is it, no, I don't think it was just down to Kepa yet. I might add yesterday as well, because you mentioned the Arsenal weren't strong enough to break down city.

But, but again, it was a big moment. The first goal in any cup final is massive, isn't it? You're the number two goalkeeper at a club, okay? You play every round of the cup. including the two-legged his semi-final,

you get to the final, and then you're dropped for the first-choice goalkeeper. Yeah. Well, I played in every round of the Effie Cup in the 99, and I got dropped for the final. But were you the reserve keeper that? No. Oh.

Some kind of confusion aren't there? Yeah. So you just got dropped on form? Yeah, I think so. Okay, right. Does that have nothing to do with the conversation? It's got nothing to know, no. But I'm very sorry.

I got dropped because he felt that the best team was to play Harper. Right, okay, right. So again, you know, Arteta will be waking up this morning. Did he get that call right? That'll be the question, wouldn't it? But, and then the other thing that somebody said to me yesterday, I think it may have been Micah who said it to me, is the comparison of Keppa and Trafford is not strictly valid

because when Trafford was signed, Trafford was brought in to be the city number one. And then Dona Rummer became available. So they bring Dona Rumour in, and they've basically got two number one goalkeepers. Whereas Arsle brought Keper in to be very much the number two. Yeah. does that hold white as an argument for you as a goalkeeper?

You can't have two number ones. No. No, and that's why I think Traff will leave in the summer as well. With Pep, there you go. There's a no other excuse. No, but therefore, what I'm saying is there's more of a reputation with Trafford than there is with Keppa. Does that, is that valid?

Yeah, it's valid enough, I suppose, because you can see his nose has been put out of place a couple of weeks after he signed as a number one that Don Room has come into the building. But going back to Kepp, I just think that there's question that David Raya is a much better goalkeeper in Kepa. You got a cup. What I was going to ask before we're going to the goalkeeping thing to Chris

was about, do you think of losing the finalist from an Arsenal point of view? I think we're probably all 90% sure that they'll won the league Arsenal. But when it comes before the final I'm thinking they won that, they could be on for a triple or a quadruple. My question is now has that knocked their conference for the Champions League and for the FAA Cup

when they get to the maybe semi-final, final stages of them competitions that, you know, second again. I mean, that was all the city fans were singing in the way home last night was second again. Like, for I don't know how many times it's been now in the last number of years, but it'll be playing on their players minds, no doubt to Arsenal players today. You know, can they get the job done?

Do you think? Well, I think so. Honestly, I think yesterday before the game, most people would have fancied Arsenal would have been strong, you know, people were saying it's definitely Arsenal to win or to lose or whatever, and it's definitely, that was my opinion.

I thought Arsenal were going to win the game is. I really did, and they would go on from there. They won the league, and then, you know, I was even thinking about Champions League. I think they've got a great chance in the champions. Now I'm waking up today thinking, I'm not so sure anymore. Because of one defeat?

Yeah, but the way they play, the way they perform, you talk about the performance levels and you couldn't put a glove on City after the first 15 minutes. If you're talking about Champions League winners and you're talking about winning the FA Cup, I mean, the league's nearly wrapped up, so that's a different conversation. But it depends on your mindset, doesn't it?

I mean, you can flip it and think, well, it's good to get that, good to get a bad performance out of the way. That's a kick up the backside that we need to really refocus and go again. You can do that in the league, but you can't do it in a cup final, that's all I'm saying. you know. No, no, and you can't, but I can't.

Honestly, for the life of me, I can't imagine Mikhail Artecetta and the Arsenal players. They'll be deflated because they've lost a one-off cup final. But nothing more than that. I mean, if they're going to get affected by losing to a go, whether it's the greatest Manchester City team of all time or not, it's clearly not, but you can lose to Manchester City. And that's it.

It's one of those. You just wipe it from your memory. And Don with the next game, I don't think that will have any. In my opinion, I think that's easier said than Donner really do. And I think particularly given that it's, you know, Arsenal have been second three years in a row. This has felt like their chance. I'm sure the players won't have been talking about quadruples or trebles or anything like that. But there must be a psychological.

There was always going to be a psychological test for them going into the final stretch of the season. Because although She's right that the gap isn't close, there's a bit of a cushion there. It's not a massive cushion. They've not walked away with it. And there have been points this season where it looked like they might. walk away with it. So it was always to be a psychological test. I think it's difficult for a club for a team that hasn't won a title

for a long time to get over that line when it's nip and took. I think that's difficult. And I think this will... It's just a little bit of a... I mean, I'm accused of being so defeatist and negative. I just wouldn't be... I wouldn't be thinking that way at all. I think it's human nature.

It's human nature to think that. But you've worked so hard... This group of players Chris have not won a trophy since 2020. I mean, some of them weren't even there in 2020. But what I'm saying is this football club then as a as a huge club, we spent nearly a billion quid on this squad of players. Only Saka from yesterday's squad was involved in the 2020

Cup final. So they haven't done it before, that's all I'm saying. No. What's their recent Premier League form been like? Good. That's why I'm saying. But that's why I'm saying like does it feel like they choked yesterday on a big, on a big stage?

That's all I'm saying. But that's a one-off, that's a one-off cup final against a good team. What's the champion? league form been like. Very good. So, you know, they're coping well on two fronts which really matter. Do you think, Chris? And actually, I kind of find myself agreeing with you here.

And also, we never accuse you being defeatist, just the other one. But when there is a break now from the Premier League for three weeks, isn't though. So we've got an international weekend and then an FA Cup weekend where both City and Arsenal are in action. then the weekend after that, Arsenal actually played the day before City. They played Bournemouth on the Saturday, and City go to Stamford Bridge on the Sunday.

Now that actually should work in Ars. I mean, Bournemouth are a tricky opposition, but that should work in Arsenal's favour, shouldn't it? Because they beat Bournemouth, Chelsea go to Stamford Bridge, 12 points behind. No, I think it is about mind. So on with the next game, where's the pressure going to be?

You know, if Arsenal get over the line against Borough, if the pressure is going to be on on Manchester City, recent Premier League form, Manchester City slipped up against West Ham. Nobody expected that. Forrest. You know, are in a pretty good, well, more than a pretty good position.

It's about holding the nerve. And as I mentioned, the metrics, do they matter? Well, a little bit, but top scorer's in the league. You know, and then people are saying, well, you know, they didn't attack well yesterday, but they have as a whole all season. They've conceded the least amount of goals in the league. that's good strength

the top of the Champions League they were they're in a great position so I wouldn't let one one game define a season one defeat that's I didn't say it was going to define anything I'm just saying psychologically I think the lads will be scared from losing that final

because the belief they had you mentioned the league you mentioned the Champions League they went into that final yesterday full of belief full of confidence and I don't say they froze yesterday but it wasn't it wasn't like city were hanging on and when they scored

the goals came what was it 60 and 64 minutes they come with plenty of time and there was no like you're thinking oh here we go Arsenal are going to roll their sleeves up and attack after it I didn't see that I didn't see them

no it wasn't really a chance they didn't really have a sustained period of pressure in the last 20 minutes when you thought okay you see Martinelli warming up and the change is coming and you think well okay this is the point where you throw the kitchen sink at it and it ended with a whimper I think I'm going to try and find

common ground here I think Shay is right it will be a psychological tests for Arsenal, but they've had plenty of psychological tests so far this season, and they've passed them all. So saying it's going to be a psychological test doesn't mean they'll fail it. Yeah, that's right. It's just that it presents another challenge they have to overcome. Peter sends an email, MNC at bbc.co.com.uk. In a word, we finished second to Manchester City yesterday again. That cup final was an opportunity to lay a statement and carry dominance forward. We died wondering because we didn't play our strongest available team. We should have played

Our best goalkeeper, the one the team is most used to playing with. Sentiment is all well and good, but not against your nemesis. The fact, who's tutting? I think Artetta did the right thing. Oh, God. I think he did the right thing. I think if you've played the goalkeeper all the way to the final, I think it's bad management to pull him out.

And also, I think you do. How old are you? Forty-three. It's not, right, okay. It's not kids football. It's not under 14's football It's not about rotation Giving everybody a game

It's about It's about the Arsenal journey It's about the Arsenal's journey And the chance to land a blow Who is, name Arsenal's best three players this season He didn't put Gunasaurus in goal Kepa at one point Was the most expensive keeper in the world

He's a full Spanish international I think you can flip the argument around Trafford I take Shea's point that Trafford was brought in to be number one and then had kind of the goalposts moved a little bit when Dona Rumour became available. James Trafford is a young goalkeeper. He's what, 20, 21? James Trafford will have many more opportunities to play in finals ahead of him.

Kepa is a seasoned, experienced international, and yes, he made a mistake, but goalkeepers sometimes make mistakes. I think if Artetta pulls him out in that situation, you are not only saying to Kepa, we don't trust you, you are saying to anybody who comes in to replace Kepa as your backup goalkeeper, and you need a backup goalkeeper,

when it matters, you will not play. I think the results should be separated from the process. I think Artetta's decision was the right one. It just didn't work out for it. He made a mistake. You could argue there were plenty of awesome players that made mistakes yesterday. In Capia's booking completely changed the game, really,

in many ways, Chris, because Semenia had a free run at him from then on. Yeah, I'm not going to disagree with that. but Kepa, I asked Rory, you know, name Arsenal's best three players this season. David Raya would be one of them. Yeah, we'll probably be in there. Yeah, no, I'm not disputing that. I'm not saying Kepa deserves to be number one.

And the justification and the Traffered argument, Peppa's won however many trophies. So Pep has that credit in the bank. But the justification's always in the winning, isn't it? And we can say, well, Kepa made a mistake. You know, David Rayer may have made a mistake. Well, he may have done. He's been so good this season that he probably wouldn't have done. And it's unfortunate for Kepa, but he did make the mistake. And that mistake

led to the first goal in a game two giant clubs going toe to toe to. That's an enormous moment. So, you know, if you want to keep harmony in the squad, win trophies. That's how you have a happy squad. Yeah, but you want your manager to be loyal, don't you? But they're big grown-ups. I know, I know. Well, hang on. Loyalty matters if you're an adult. Yeah, I know. I'm just saying, I think it's happened before in the past. It's not happened before in Cup finals as well. I'm sure, Dasenvilla once Brad Goosom said loads of penalties in the semi-final and Martin Ail picked Brad Brad Friedel in the final.

It's not the first time that your first... It does happen quite frequently that the managers lose their nerve and say... I think, I mean, Shane will know this better than I do, but I suspect quite a lot of goalkeepers when they sign contracts discuss how much they might play if they are the back-up. To be fact, Artetta said that the one thing that Artetta did say was that he didn't promise that he would play all the cup games to him. So he did.

But it said... a message to the goalkeeper that you are not valued and Kepa is not. But again, again, we're not going to... That's such nonsense. But again, we're talking about Kepa for the last whatever 10 minutes. I don't think that's the only reason they've lost the cup final. I think there's

numerous reasons. So it's easy to blame the keeper, lads, come on. Some of which were our tete's, some of which were Arteta's tactical decisions. Yeah, tactical. I mean, Ezi and O'Dagad were a big loss as well, obviously. Yeah, they were our injury. Yeah, so, I mean, that was an our factor, I suppose. So there were lots of things that played

in. Go on. Can I just go back to Just last one on this, Rory. Everybody understands, as far as I know, as a player, I understood pecking orders. I knew who was better than me and who wasn't. Kepa knows that Ray has better than him. I don't know where, you know, in Chase's career, top goalkeeper, you know, the keepers you'd be up against, you know where you are. You know what form you're in and what have you. And it's unfortunate for goalkeepers, you know, there is a number one and the number two have to sit out.

but then the number two has to work hard to try and out of the team. That's what happens. So, you know, there's sort of loyalty and you have to keep the number two happy. The game is players know the rules. I knew the rules, players who were better than me. And when, you know, if Shira was playing his number nine in front of me, I wouldn't have a problem with it. That's, you know, I've got to try and find a way to get into the team.

And sometimes you're just not good enough to do that. So that all, you know, we have to keep him happy. It's top level football. It's not about, you know, worrying about how Kepa feels. You can still keep him happy, but it's pecking orders. On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, little Richard. And we pull apart the story behind the image.

And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives. Discovering forgotten interviews that changed exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi and Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts. BC Sounds. My Live Sports is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman.

On the Football Daily podcast. Let's talk Spurs. Sammy Mockbell with us. Jack Hussey, presenter of the Spurs podcast, Rule the Roost, also joins us. And the one thing I think, Spurs lost 3-0 to Notting and Forrest yesterday. And the whole of this conversation will understandably take place with the backdrop. actually of the difficult time, Sammy, that Igor Tudor is going through at the moment following the death of his father. Yeah, that's right, Chappas. I think it's probably something we all should

be mindful of, I guess, of how stricken Igor Tudor will be right now, how his family are feeling right now. And you're absolutely right. There are issues with regards to Igor Tudor's future at Tottenham that we simply can't ignore. But I think there also needs to be some sensitivity towards the the situation and the period of mourning and grief that he finds himself in at the moment. But I think over the next few days, I think we will probably start to see a resolution to the uncertainty with regards to his future. And I think, you know, it doesn't take a scientist to work out or a football expert to find out to work out that his jobs on the line.

Yeah. It's not often, I would have thought, Jack, that Spurs fans have had sympathy for for the Spurs hierarchy, board exec, however you want to call them here. But whilst there are obviously understandable sympathies towards Ego Tudor, for what he's going through, some sympathy for the Spurs boarders. They try to manage their way through quite a difficult situation because they'll have to make a decision, but they have to take his feelings into account. Yeah, of course, it's, you know, I think everybody else's issue around this pales

in comparison to what it is that Ego Tudor's having to go through on a personal level. It is just the main thing we have to be to be mindful of. It's an almost impossible situation really for the football club. I think a lot of people will have their opinions on it. And I guess at times like this, people tend to default into this position where they say, well, you know, there is this sensitive emotional issue on the side. But in a business sense, we maybe need to look at this through a different, a colder lens. if you like, even if you were to apply that to this situation, I don't really think there's an easy answer either

when we're talking about Igor Tudor's future. Because of what else is out there? Yeah, really. I mean, what else is out there, the situation that Spurs are in right now, you know, I think one thing that, you know, probably hasn't been said enough of Igor Tudor is that there's a, I think there's a level of bravery

to step into this situation. to put his reputation on the line, really, to come into, you know, a Spurs team that hasn't just been struggling, has been in free fall, really. If you look at our fixtures in 2026, our results, they're pretty much all losses. You know, there's no real way to sugarcoat that. It's, it's, I don't even think it's kind of reminiscent of Everton a few years

back when they were bubbling around the bottom of the table and, you know, maybe getting caught up in a relegation fight. Like Spurs just seemed to be magnetized. to the bottom of the table and I don't see how appealing a prospect that is for anybody. And look, you know,

myself and many Spurs fans right now are trying to be as positive as we can. So I don't want to sit here and say it's all doom and gloom. You know, we've got to try and have hope until the end of the season. But it's not looking very good at all, is it? The only thing,

with those options, and hindsight is a wonderful thing. But even when Frank was sacked, the debate was, well, where are they going to look, particularly because around the same time you had the Amory Manchester United situation. So United, United probably had two former players, well, three if you include Solshire, I suppose, but they had two former players that they could very easily get access to, whether that was Darren Fletcher as an under-18's coach or Michael Carrick, who they

went with. I mean, neither the under-21 or the under-18 coach at Spurs are former players, and I think that probably does matter, doesn't it, in a sense of selling that? to the fans. But aside from that, there wasn't a lot out there for United, in the same way that there hasn't been for Spurs. So the original decision is still slightly odd because of lack of options, isn't it?

I think my main opinion on Thomas Frank really, and look, you know, this is again, this is coming from a fan's perspective. We're not there in the dressing room. We're not there on the training ground. I appreciate it all that. But what I would say is that it was abundantly clear that Thomas Frank wasn't fit for purpose very early on.

in his Tottenham career. I think the biggest mistake the Tottenham board made was not sacking him much sooner. I know a lot is made of clubs like Spurs, Chelsea, kind of going through this

merry-go round of managers sacking them constantly, but really, in truth, it's actually served Spurs pretty well to this point, really. You know, Daniel Levy often got a lot of flack for it, but more often than not,

Spurs improved. Not always, you know, there were some bumps in the road, But, you know, had we got rid of Thomas Frank sooner, I think there may be more options there that we could have, we could have called, you know, just off the top of my head. You know, Kieran McKenna, there's a manager, he's got some affiliation with Tottenham.

He's somebody that was, you know, he's done a great job at Ipswich. He is somebody that's been linked to Spurs quite a lot, you know. Maybe there's the option that you can attract somebody like him to the club to take us on for the second half of the season. before things start to look quite as bleak as they have done. But I think the timing of the Franksacking, after the January window, you've not signed anybody else during that window as well.

I mean, that just speaks to really the poor decision-making that we've seen at Spurs now for the past couple of seasons at least, but really since we opened up that new stadium. But there's also the flip argument where you could say, well, had Spurs stuck with Thomas Frank, they may not be in such a precarkey. precarious position. You said earlier, Jack, you said that Igor Judah put his reputation on the line when he took the job. What was his

reputation from a Spurs fan's point of view? Because just from the outside, and we've spoken about some on the Monday nightclub before, about him being this short-term specialist. And so if that's the way that Spurs fans are viewing this appointment, he certainly, I know he's had a really difficult time with what's happened, you know, the loss of his dad. But he certainly, with what's gone on in terms of results, he certainly can't be viewed as a short-term specialist. And the defeat at the weekend, I suppose,

we're all thinking the same thing, that you can lose to a relegation rival, but you can't lose 3-0 in the manner which Spurs did. So a decision does need to be made, I suspect. What's your view on all that? Well, yeah. it's we did have a moment didn't we where we had a good game where we looked quite competent away at Amfield.

I know Liverpool have had their own problems, relatively speaking, nothing in comparison to what spurs are facing this season. So I still decided to take some positives from that. And it maybe looked like Tudor started to turn a bit of a corner. I think he faced some sort of fairly unfair and at times quite unpleasant lines. of questioning from certain sections of the media. Nobody here present, so I'm not calling any of you out. But yeah, at times, and he came through that pretty well.

I think he, you know, faced some quite unpleasant and difficult conversations quite well. And I think he actually won quite a few fans over, quite skeptical fans. And then obviously the Athletico Madrid game, despite the fact that Spurs still went out of the competition, spoke to, again, perhaps players starting to be. leave a bit, starting to buy into whatever it was that he was selling, we're at least kind of starting to play football a bit. I think it's the first time in, in genuinely in months. I think we've actually, as Spurs fans sat back and thought, Spurs actually played quite well there. We actually looked like we had an idea as to what we were doing. And then to, to fall off

like that against Forrest, I mean, look, all day long, my first thought waking up today was three-nill, three-nill. How has that happened, really? You know, in this, in this, in this game, especially after, you know, the big sort of the effort that the fans went to ahead of the head of the game to welcome the players. And I'm not, I'm not taking this on a level of saying, you know, these entitled players, they didn't show up for us. And it's, it's, it's nothing like that. It's just, it's, you know, more in a, in a, you know, howling to the footballing gods? How, how has this happened to us after, after, you know, we showed up and we all rallied behind it and we had these great results in the week? It's, it's hard to reconcile other than, you know,

I think the manager made some fairly poor decisions on the day. I think his substitutions at half time were quite hard to fathom. I haven't seen anything out of the back of it that would indicate. There was any injury or anything. His number two said there were tactical decisions at half time to bring the two players off. Rory, I know you wanted to come in. Yeah, what really struck me yesterday,

apart from how easy Forrest's second goal was, the fact that they basically walked to the edge of the box and then Callum Hutt and Adoy sprinted for half a second and then everyone left Morgan Gibbs White unmarked in the box, which was, as a fan, is the sort of goal that would infuriate you. But it was a number of, and I wasn't there, but the number of times on the TV, they cut to fans not booing, not shouting, not screaming,

but looking totally kind of baffled and bereft, and kind of doing that thing where you smiled, you're not really sure what else to do, and it's all slightly laughable. And it looked to me like Spurs fans might even have come out, they've been obviously in sadness and anger and regret and bitterness and fury but it looked like something else yesterday and I just wondered what Jack's kind of perception of what the fans are feeling it looked like they were numb to be honest

just sorry just quickly the director's not going to cut to swearing fans though is he and not no I mean not swearing but normally you expect someone I expect like a someone whose face has done quite red shouting at the moon that's what I want and it wasn't everyone was like I would also say Chris it is remarkable how often actually directors do manage to cut to people gesturing, swearing and everything else. Go on Jack, answer that one quickly. I think yesterday a lot of people were shell-shocks. I think a lot of people, because of how good the results had been in the week and because

of, you know, they had, across the week, other than just the bus, had been a concerted effort amongst many of the Tottenham fan groups to build bridges with the club and a lot that was, there was a lot of messaging based on Christian Ramirez's sign-off, which is altogether always, that was reciprocated by the club, and I think a lot of people went into that not even contemplating that Forrest would win. You know, and considering how bad our season's been, it seems naive, but sometimes you just get caught up in the belief, don't you? Sammy, do they, if they were to move on from Eagle Tudor, do they have a plan, do you know? They've started looking at identifying candidates to take the job on, but as you rightly said,

For eight games, sorry. Yeah. Right. Yeah. There is such a, like I said, there are minimal options out there for them, obvious options. My understanding of the situation prior to the Liverpool,

prior to the Liverpool game, was that I think they had a conversation with Roberto de Zerbe, who is on their list to be permanent manager, to see if he would be prepared to take it now. I think that was a, that was a, a negative. and if he is to become Tottenham manager,

he would much rather do that at the end of the season, i.e. when he knows whether Tottenham Hotswere in the Premier League or not, basically. So I think they've exhausted a lot of those avenues. And then if you just look at it from a purely, I guess, an external perspective, you've got the likes of Harry Rednapp has made no secret of that he'd do it on the temporary basis. I think Ryan Mason would jump at the chart to do it on the temporary basis. That's just too. Someone mentioned Jürgen Klinzman to me today

as a potential option. So there are options out there who have links to Tottenham Hotspur who would 100% be willing to take the position. But it's just whether the board decide to make that move. But in my mind at the moment, it's more of a risk keeping Tudor than it is not making the change.

You would think when you should, that you would have to want to take it over now if that's what's going to happen you would have to have a deep connection to the club because a bit like Sammy said if you are someone like Deserby

you wouldn't want to risk it would you? No I don't think you would no it's on a free fall basically I mean the team's down there Notting in Forest West Ham Leeds they know they've been in a sort of fight all season to stay in the league probably in Tottenham seems to be sleepwalking into the championship

I was going to ask Sammy because I believe Jack's two emotional to ask this question, but you know, there's no point in looking back at Thomas Frank Tudor now and condolences to his tutor and his family and all that because it's a real difficult time for him off the pitch. But I was shocked that I didn't wake up this morning to news that there's

a new guy come in for these seven games, these remaining seven games, because each day, each hour that passes, it's literally, it's that stadium, we all talk about one of the best stadiums in the country, if not the world, it's set for the Premier League. It's an unbelievable place. Every day it goes past, I mean,

It's, you know, Tudor hasn't worked out for whatever reason. The one point out of 15 is just, they have to throw the dice. They have to just do it now. Because each day it goes past, I know it's an international break now, so maybe it's not, but at the same time, you can still work with the players that's at the training ground. What, you know, is it not more urgency? It's feels like the board and everything,

or just go, no, we'll see what's out there. You know what I mean? It's crazy. Yeah, no, I think that's exactly where the mindset is at the moment with regards to do we or don't we. I think they are more leading towards. we've got to do it. We've got we've we've we've got to make another change because not doing so would represent a far bigger risk than than keeping him. The identity of who they could go to next that I can't sit here and tell you I know who it is but they have options and they have

explored options but you're absolutely right. It's just not working out. The Igor Tudu experiment has been complete and utter failure and that is unfortunately on the on the board. They decided to get rid of Thomas Frank when they did. They decided that Igor Tudor was the appropriate manager and the ideal manager to get them out of the position that they were. It just hasn't worked out. And you do wonder how the ownership look at the way that the board have made the decisions and dealt with this situation come any kind of end of season review. Jack, final one, when you look at the remaining fixtures on the penultimate weekend of the Premier League season. Your final away game of the season is at?

Yeah, Stanford Bridge. I mean, have you even gone there about what could happen that weekend? The idea of Spurs being relegated by Chelsea the year Arsenal win the title? Yeah, I mean, it's... Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, the danger in bringing this up is a bit like a director cutting to the fan at the wrong time here. So, you know, but as you do your podcast, I think I can trust you not to just flick us sign at me and turn your camera off, but go on.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's, the, the, the, the, the situation that we're in is dire and, uh, it, you know, there's, there's even the added element that it would be West Ham that could leap froggers. Oh, my God. It's, so I'll win the title, Chelsea relegate you and West Ham stay up as a result. There we go. You know, it's, uh, it's, uh, finish on a hay. It's a triple, triple whammy for Spurs, isn't it? But, you know, one thing you can always say about Spurses, there's always a story there, isn't there? So, you know, hopefully we won't be in that position. Hopefully somehow we'll

muster something and pull away from it, but it's got to come soon. You'll come back on, won't you? I mean, do you talk about the FL? Yeah, you do, don't you? We're doing National League title race a bit later. I mean, I don't want to go fully doom and gloom for you.

But yeah, we'll... You never know. Thank you very much. Jack, Jack Hussie, presented to the Spurs podcast, Rule the Reese, another guest leaves with that warm, happy glow of being on the Monday night club. We've seen another one off.

Another one gone. Sammy, thank you. See you soon. Cheers, last. Cheers. I mean, about BBC Football correspondent on the website with us on the Monday night club.

Next Crisis Club, Liverpool, Rory. Yep, let's go for that one as well. Obviously not quite as extreme as Spurs. I think what Jack said is interesting. thing that you do have to keep crises in perspective, but they've lost a third of their league games this season. That's not, and there are extenuating circumstances around Liverpool as well, obviously what happened in the summer of the shot. You know, that have to be, it's not

brilliant. And I'm not saying that you're guilty of this at all, Chapas, if anything, you're the very opposite of it. But it's not brilliant that when we talk about these things, we have to say, like, remember to treat everybody involved as a human being. We shouldn't really have to clarify that. It feels like we do. But even allowing for that, I think, that you do have to, You have to confront the world as it is not as you would wish it to be. And Liverpool do have to... Liverpool, on a slot, the club, the hierarchy, have a very difficult decision to make over the next few weeks, I would say.

Having watched the game in full on Saturday lunchtime, the Brighton Liverpool game, and we're going to talk to Abigail Rudkin shortly from Anfield Rapper and Remen TV. But everything about Liverpool on Saturday just seemed to be confused and bemused. that players shea that was on a slot at times it just looks a real muddle it looks a bit lacklust or even everything they do

you know from an attacking point of every way to the defensive side of things it's kind of like we'll half hardly try and block across we'll half hardly try and block the defender or the striker trying to get in front of us you know somebody else will do my job pass on the buck to someone else he'll clear it it doesn't seem any urgency at all and everything that Liverpool do be that attacking or defending and and i don't know what the answer is i mean you know Liverpool are renowned for a club not to sack their managers. I think that's actually the opposite.

When it comes to Liverpool, they really support their managers, and they never seem to do that. And of course, they've only won the league a couple of times in 30 years, and Arnes-Lot's one of the guys to do that. So, you know, a few months back, or six or eight months, whatever it is, he's a hero, you know, building a statue there for him. And I don't think it's at that level yet. But if they do miss out in Champions League qualification,

there'll be serious question marks at the end of the season. What do they do next? And I'm just looking at the next two fixtures. Man City away in the FA Cup and PSG away in the Champions League. I mean, it doesn't get any easier. It doesn't, and I think that's a really important thing to note is that we're talking about Spurs

and the way it kind of turned. It's possible that, come the end of the season, you looked at the draw at Anfield and the winning against Athletico in the second leg and think that's the point where Spurs got relegated. Does it just cost them that chance to make that change while they still had the opportunity? I think with Liverpool,

their season could be over by like April, the 20th, and there is, Abidale will know this better than I do. There is a Merseyside Derby at the Hill Dishinson around that time. I think if Liverpool are out of the FA Cup, which you'd expect them to be, does it city at home in the quarterfinal, if they are out of the Champions League, which you'd expect to be, does PSG are the best team in Europe? I think Stephen Warnett is saying that if Liverpool played like they did, play like they

did in Paris against Brighton, that they could lose 10-0. That feels a little bit negative even for Stephen Warnock, but he's got a point. If they're out of both those competitions and they lose the Merseyside Derby, I think the risk is that what is at the moment are quite angry, but also slightly sorrow desire to think that maybe it's time that slot maybe should move on in the summer, I think could become quite toxic and that would be very sad indeed. Okay, so we let Jack go from the spur side of things on a wave of disappointment. And we're bringing Abigail in on a similar wave of disappointment.

Where do you want to begin with doom and gloom there? All of it just feels like a mess, to be honest, from a Liverpool perspective. I mean, I don't even want to think about the fixtures that are coming up. the fact that we've still got to go and play Everton away is making me sick about the fact that the three points behind us. That's when, you know, the manager's job should be on the line is when Everton are three points behind you. That's when, you know, the Liverpool fans are going to start panicking. It's when you think that there's any chance in this world that Everton might end up finishing above you. You've just got to, you've got to get a grip.

And I'm of the perspective now that I think the Liverpool need to start looking for other options in terms of a manager. It's just, it's not working. And I was the first. I was the first to say when everything happened in the summer that this needed to be a transitional period for the manager and it also needed to be one with a little bit of leeway considering what all the players went through in terms of grief and stuff like that but in terms of what we're actually seeing on the pitch now and what we're hearing from them in press conferences and stuff like that there's no fight there there's no belief in the manager from the fans or from what we think from the players like what i'm watching and ian field these performances it's just not it's

not right. There's no consistency though, is that? Abigail, that's the other thing with it. It felt stark on Saturday because, I know, look, I know Eckertiki went off injured very early on with the dead leg, but you're never quite sure of who's going to be selected in those forward positions. You're never quite sure whether he's going to go with a two now or whether he's going to go with a three. You're never quite sure who his right back's going to be. Often you're not 100% sure who his left back is going to be. And, then where is you going to use VERS and then how's the midfield going to perform? The only certainties, more often than not, are the Central Defensive Partnership

who are both struggling. I was trying to work out what, but they are. They are both struggling, aren't they, in games? I think the only certainty and consistency is Liverpool fan that you can be sure of is that we're going to have a poor performance where everyone looks confused and doesn't know what they're going to be doing. I think the Galatasarai game was an anomaly and all the fans inside the ground couldn't believe what they were watching because we were just fully expecting a poor game, especially coming off the back of spares,

that performance was awful. And I think the crowd have decided now at Amfield that they've decided to turn against them. And that's when, you know, things aren't right, is when it's not just social media fans, it's not just those online deciding who aren't in the ground every week that they don't want this manager. It's actually the ones sitting in the stands who are bored.

It was sat on the phone to the moment that spares goal went in in that spares game were streaming out of the ground. No hope at all that we were ever going to get any sort of comeback. No chance at all. We were never going to see what we saw a couple of years ago where, you know, with Charleston scores and then Diogo goes and gets a winner. We were never going to see that.

And we all knew that deep down. And I couldn't even be angry at the fans deciding to boo a full time and stream out the ground because none of these players look like they've got any fight at all. And even his choices, it's like, you know, Curtis Jones has had a better season than McAllister, but you still continue to pick McAllister. and then Echatke goes off injured the other day

and you decide to bring on Curtis Jones when you've got Rio and Gamowah sitting there and I understand maybe you don't want to give Rio that amount of game time but no one would have been thinking anything bad if he'd have took him off at some point in the second half because you'd have understood that he'd played a lot of minutes at that point but it just feels like it's odd decision-making

and I can't see how we go on from here and he doesn't even like buy into the fans or the club and he doesn't even live in Liverpool there's all these things and all these conversations going on amongst the fans on, you know, channels like The Rap and Red Men TV where we're all just starting to feel as though he's not really buying into Liverpool either. So, I mean, why should we still have hope? As in the city? As in a whole, yeah. I think it's sort of, it's not even just a Klop thing either.

I mean, I understand that we've all sort of been bought into the whole charisma of Klop and him buying into the city and him becoming this massive thing for the community and, you know, making so much time for fans and things. like that. We weren't really expecting that, but you could even go back to like a Raffer figure who, you know, said things that galvanised in a press conference, you know, literally has never really left Liverpool, lives on the Whirl, you know, just fell in love with the city. We're not getting that at all. Like, there's already photos of slot in an airport. He's gone now. It's an international break. A lot of the breaks that we've had throughout the season, even if it's just a weekend off, there's photos of slot in Dubai. And that causes a lot of trouble between the fan base of people just thinking, why is he not trying to sort this out? And you're

watch his press conferences and he's just, the whole conversation that he's having is basically just excuses. And I think that's really difficult for Liverpool fans to listen to and it just doesn't sound like he's trying to galvanise us at all. Or, you know, that doubt us to believe his thing that Yeager did.

It just, we're all doubters again. And it's hard, it's hard to say that, to be honest, but that's exactly how most people that I speak to amongst the fan base, especially in the ground. That's how we all feel. Just quite, Abigail, is it too easy just to blame one person as in the manager.

You know, you talk about the players who look disinterested, you know, not closing down, not having that urgency when they crossed the white line. I mean, recruitment last summer that was really the balance of the recruitment felt was very top-heavy in the front line. And of course, defensively, they weren't brought in. I mean, it can't all be down to one person. I know he picks the team and leads them out.

But is there no blame anywhere else? Or is it just purely on the manager? No, I think that's fair. I think a lot of games this season, I've thought to myself, like, this is coming down to individual errors now. certain things could be canarte not using his strength you know attackers not really being able to finish but he says all this in his press conferences like he's going on about how we're not finishing chances

but he's said that all season so it's like what are you doing in training that means none of these attackers can finish any of their chances that's got to land at the manager's door because it's happening again and again and again with no improvement why are we not seeing it in training I think that's where the frustration sort of comes from Yes, individual errors are happening, but it's consistent errors. We're seeing the same thing again and again,

and it's his job to iron those out, and he's not doing that. And it's hard for me to say that as a Liverpool fan, because I had some of the best moments of my life last season, winning that league and getting to celebrate that with all of them. And I really did think maybe we did have our sort of Bob Paisley figure coming in after the Shankley sort of thing, but it's not that. And I think a lot of fans have accepted that now, and we can't sit through more of this for much longer,

and he's not really doing anything to write his wrongs. I'd actually take real issue with this idea that Liverpool has been inconsistent. It's using the word wrongly. Liverpool have played well twice this season. They played brilliantly in Marseille and they played brilliantly next Dalatacaray. And it's really easy for us to say, well, Farmers League and then whatever the Turkish equivalent of Farmers League is. But those are decent teams.

Marseille and Dalatacirate on their day would give most Premier League teams a decent game. They're not, they're not semi-professional. They don't have drunosaurus in gold. Liverpool were great in both of those games. they have been basically dreadful in every other match since about October. And sometimes they win those games because the opposition make mistakes or because an individual plays well. Mostly, they're really low event matches.

There's not much happening, and Liverpool sometimes get the bounce of the ball and win and sometimes don't get the bounce of the ball and lose or the other team gets set piece or whatever. I think they have been remarkably... It's not been dreadful. The dreadful is on there. Dreadful's maybe pushing it a bit, Chris, but poor. I've watched more Liverpool matches than my officially neutral status suggests I should,

and they are not entertaining to watch. They're just, and I think that is ultimately the thing that the slot maybe needs to turn more than anything. It results will, he needs results that they probably have to get into the top five to get champions lead money, because they're halfway through a rebuild that they have to keep on doing the other half, and they probably can't do it without the Champions League money. But he needs performances. He needs the fans to want to be in the stadium or to want to watch them on TV again. The Spurs game wasn't sold out.

There were tickets available, I think, on the day to get into Anfield for the Spurs game. That's not happened for a long, long time. I think there were tickets on the exchange that you could get because people didn't really want to go because it's not really worth watching Liverpool matches. That's not a good thing for any manager. And if that doesn't change in the next seven domestic games

and he's got rough draws in the FAA Cup and the Champions League, that's fine. But they don't have to show something. Otherwise, I just don't think it's sustainable. We've taught many weeks, many times on. Monday nightclub about the Scottish Premiership title race and how close it is and how enjoyable this is. The other really

close one domestically at the moment because in the championship commentary have a bit of a lead and in League 1-Lincoln have a bit of a lead, a little bit tighter in League 2 with Bromley but in the National League the gap between the top two is just two

points. Rochdale are top of the National League. They have 94 points from 39 games. York two points behind them. 92 from their 39 games and York already, they're talking about entertaining football here. York have had 104 goals

already this season and then there is a huge gap to Carlisle who have 78 points. Stuart Maynard, York manager joins us on the Monday nightclub. Are you both, thank you very much for joining us, are you both proud of what your team are doing and the football they play? And at the same time, also scratch your head thinking,

how the hell are we not top? Yeah, we went on a 24 game unbeat and run and we didn't really close the gap. And fair play to Rochdale, they've done an incredible job as well. They've carried on winning. It's going to go all the way to the while. We play Rochdale, the last game in the season. So for us, can we make sure that we have that opportunity

on the last game in the season to put ourselves in a strong position to hopefully have a chance of winning it? I realise kickoff times can be different and you're both teams are actually a big draw for the TV company that shows the National League. But are you getting in after a game and immediately checking what Rochdale have done?

Or are you just assuming they will have won and I'll concentrate on my own team for a bit? We've got a couple of members of staff that just can't help themselves. We've tried to try and not focus on it. It's hard not to at the end of games, obviously when you get back in the office and you've won. Like the weekend, we'd won.

4-0 played very well, comfortable win. And there was murmurs in the crowd at one stage. It was too all with Tamworth, watched out, and they went on and got an 80-minute winner. So, look, fair play. We've just got to keep focusing on ourselves, and if we focus on ourselves, like you say, we'll be in a really good position

come that last game in the season. You are at, and you have joined, haven't you? A club who has really built itself back up. You know, I've done a couple of games at the stadium there. It's a great community stadium, isn't it? And this club who's had hard times and feels like they're on the way back. Did you get that sense when you did you get that sense

when you joined. Yes, Matt and Julianne, the owners have done an incredible job, not just on the pitch now with the squad and the investment, but also off the pitch with the community. You can really fill it togetherness now with the football club, and obviously they've been out of the football league for a long time. And obviously, the National League is one of the toughest divisions. Get out of, we've only one up, and then one through the playoffs.

Obviously, it looks at the minute that us and Rochdale probably finish on over 100 points and only one of us have got up automatically. But yeah, they've done an incredible job, the owners, and it's a great club to be working at. Well, Chris, I mean, that seems so, so sort of wrong. I mean, because last season you finished second as well, didn't you? And the brutal element of the playoffs, I mean, you work so hard all season. And for you and Rochdale to be so far clear,

that seems mightily harsh that there is only one up, and you have to, you know, the team we finish seconds goes through the playoffs. Do the managers talk about that? I think it's a talking point at a minute. There's a campaign going on for free-up National League. But I get it. Last season, I was at Knox County, and we got into the playoffs as well. And I get it that the EFL clubs don't want to give up another place

because then it limits their chance of getting relegated. But I look at the other way sometimes, if you get relegated into the National League, how tough it is to get back up. Carlisle came down last season, and they're having a really good season now with Mark Hughes, and they're on 78 points, and they're quite a way off of us. So it's just a really tough division to get out of. You've got to be a near and perfect to go up as champions in this division. But you have that experience of both football league experience and non-league experience.

And you've been at smaller non-league clubs with all due respect to Wieldston, for example. But the beauty of the National League is if it was treated the same and had three up, most of the division is professional, isn't it? And then it gives those opportunities for teams that do drop out. and there are lots of big what I would call football league in the National League, whether that's South End or Carlisle or Rochdale or York from Days Gone Pass,

but also the opportunities for Borenwood at the moment who are currently in the playoffs. Bromley are top of league too. They went up through the playoffs a couple of years ago. It does seem unfair. You know before the season starts, what the challenges are and you have to work with it. It's obviously when you have the seasons

that us and Rochdale are having it gets to the end of the season when one of us are going to end up. up in the playoffs and potentially when you get into the playoffs, it is a lottery. We understand before the season starts, it's a big frustration that it's not free up. Like you said, it's pretty much a full-time league now.

I think there's only two hybrid teams left in the division. And they're normally the teams that get promoted out of the north or the south. So, yes, pretty much a full-time league. And I feel that it warrants free to get promoted out of it now two automatically and one through the playoffs. That's the other thing, Stuart, I mean, from a manager's point to be the psychological side, have a few missed outs out, say, in the last game of the season

to Rotchdale or whatever, you know, it's so difficult to have that gap between the third place and you guys and then go right, lads, we've got to dust ourselves down again and we've got to go again. It's, it's... But what's they win, shy? All right, Chris, I know that. Once again, Mrs. Trisping, I'm getting into

Stuart's psychological side of things here. How do you keep the lads, you know what I mean? Because it's just crazy to think the many games you've played, and we're sitting here now and there's 100, as chappers, there's 104 goals you've scored. It's phenomenal the season. You guys are having. but still I'm just trying to get to the point

whereas how do you keep the lads sort of focused on going again? I think the key has been all season for us is just to go one game at a time and I know it's very cliche and solely focus on it and it's kind of put us in really good stead and not to look too far ahead. At one stage, well when we first took the job we were in 17th place when we come in as a management team

and we won I think it was like six on the bounce and we didn't really get anywhere. And I said to the group, don't look at the league tables now. We've just got to go one game at a time and keep ticking the wins off and we've done that ever since and we've put ourselves in a great position now and it happens all through the divisions.

We see it year in year out from the championship all the way down the team that normally gets into the playoffs with a bit of momentum is normally the team that goes on to get promoted but at the minute we're in really good form and hopefully we can get over the line but if it is the playoffs

we've just got to be solely focused that we've been in good form and the goals that we're scoring and we're not conceding many either we're in a really good place. Stuart, you've done a wonderful job already. Congratulations what you've done. Wish you well for the rest of the season. Thanks for coming on. Cheers, guys. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you.

Stuart. Maysard with us on the Monday Night Club. The York manager as they go head to head with Rochdale for promotion. Thanks to Chris, Rory and Shea. That's it for this episode of the Monday night. I'm Rich Hall and this is Sports Strangest Crimes presents Confessions of a Super Bowl streaker. When people ask me what I do, I say to them well, by day or by night. The story of one man's mission to conquer the The Holy Grail of streaking the Super Bowl. Mark Roberts is too largely for his body.

He's just like the entertainer. Mark pushes the boundaries of what is socially acceptable. No chance. Texas. It's really strict. But then the more of thought about it. I thought, hang on. What are you about?

Sports Strangers Crimes presents Confessions of a Super Bowl streaker. Listen on BBC Sounds. On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard. And we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives. Discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes.

I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kyle Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives, wherever you get your podcasts.