Football Daily - Monday Night Club: A pivotal season for Spurs, no more egos at Rangers & Man United's pre-season success

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Kelly Cates is joined by Pat Nevin, Stephen Warnock and The i's Daniel Storey on the latest episode of the Monday Night Club. The team discuss Spurs' ambitions going into the new season under Thomas Frank, before Iain Mitchell from the ‘This Is Ibrox’ podcast joins the panel to reflect on Russell Martin's early outburst at Rangers. Finally, we hear about Brighton’s unusual pre-season preparations, and how much have Manchester United improved after their positive pre-season run?Timecodes: 01:51 Spurs & Daniel Levy’s ambitions for Thomas Frank 21:13 Was Russell Martin right to call out ‘egos’ at Rangers? 38:00 Brighton’s unusual pre-season preparations 44:17 Can Manchester United maintain their pre-season form?

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most of every adventure. Learn more at LandRover.ca. BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. On the Football Daily Podcast, the Monday nightclub with Kelly Kitts. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello and welcome to the Monday nightclub on the Football Daily Podcast. On this episode, we'll be talking Tottenham and discussing their ambitions going into this season. We'll also reflect on Russell Martins early outburst at Rangers and we'll chat Manchester United in their positive preseason so far. We'll do all of that in the company of former Chelsea and Scotland winger Pat Nevin,

chief football writer at the i, Daniel Storie is with us and Stephen Warnock. I was gonna say fresh from a game at the weekend but fresh might not be the right word to use Stephen because you were playing in a charity game that was to raise money to help people who were affected by the the attack in Southport last summer. So a fantastic cause, really well supported, brilliant list of people who were playing. My brother played in it and pulled his quad in his first sprint. Now I think he's playing fast and loose with the word sprint there, but how are you feeling today Stephen? I'm a little bit stiff, I'm not going to lie, a little bit tender. But yeah, like you say

Kelly, an incredible cause. It was one of those moments when he stepped out into the pitch with the families who've lost children last year. That was very difficult to watch those guys standing in the minute silence and it was very emotional for the families. But once the game got underway, it was a great cause. A lot of money was raised and a lot of awareness of what's gone on as well so yeah a really special day. Yeah and I know they want to leave a really positive legacy so a perfect way to get everybody together and and involved in a football match as you say to raise awareness and to raise funds. Let's start with Tottenham and their chairman Daniel Levy has said he'll get the credit he deserves from Spurs fans only when he's left the club. Spurs ended

their 17-year wait for a trophy with the Europa League last season, but they finished 17th in the Premier League. He told Gary Neville on the overlap that Thomas Frank doesn't need to win the Premier League title this season, but he does need to deliver it as soon as possible after taking over from Angeposter Koglu. So he's been very heavily critic criticized by Spurs fans for the club not kicking on when they've been close to challenging for the Premier League or when they reach the Champions League final. This time around though, Pat, they've won silverware and that's been a complaint from previous managers that maybe that will to win, that willingness to kind of step over

the final line wasn't there. Has this put that to bed or will we find out more this season? Well, it's put it to bed if you've got a manager that can do that. Oops, you get rid of him. So Ange is gone and you've got a new manager and look, it's tough to win any competitions and there are a lot of very good teams out there. So I think, you know, talking to him last year winning that is phenomenal. Ansh Post of Kogel could walk out with his head held high in some degrees. Does that mean that all things are rosy in the garden of Tottenham Hotspur? Absolutely not. Nowhere near it. Because in the end you

look what the season has looked like and the season didn't look very good at all. But they've got a new manager in who I'm still waiting to find anybody who doesn't think he's great. So I mean not just as a manager but as a coach but as a bloke you'd like to hang about with. So you know it's an interesting new start but it's yet another new start for Spurs but at least they've had that celebration of that trophy. We'll get into what that means for the coming season, but just on the fact that he's done it at all, Daniel, because Daniel Levy is not a man who's particularly easily accessible, who isn't particularly open about what goes on. He doesn't put himself forward in that way. So the fact that he's done this interview, does that suggest confidence or a man who's

fighting a battle? I don't think it's a surprise that it comes within three or four months of Tottenham finally winning that trophy. I think football club owners and and chairman generally talk about leaving clubs in better positions than they found them and Daniel Levy first came into Tottenham as a day-to-day running of the club in 2001 and it is a very different beast but I think there's an argument that English football changed over that time maybe more than he had and you know the kind of rapid expansionism of that big six of state-owned clubs and that sort of stuff Spurs have struggled to keep up with it and Daniel Levy has as well and I think

the accusation that they've not quite kicked on when they've been close to the line is absolutely true so look it's no coincidence that Tottenham win a trophy and suddenly Daniel comes out and says maybe I'll be remembered quite fondly. What happens now will define the next era of Tottenham Hotspur and it is the start of a new era as Pat says because Ange has left, because the trophy's been won and the Champions League football has been gained, they have to now kick on, they have to use this as a springboard. Newcastle have managed to do that, to some extent even Aston Villa have managed to do that. Yeah, Tottenham have to match that. It's going to be a huge season for Tottenham following on from that Europa League win and

off the back of a really disappointing season in the league, Steve. And as Pat says, they've got rid of a manager who has a proven track record of winning trophies. They brought in Thomas Frank, who's very highly regarded, but has yet to deliver in terms of major trophies and certainly not at Brentford is going to have the opportunity to do that in England. But he has the opportunity potentially to get close to that with Tottenham. So it's going to be really interesting to see how that pans out this season. It's going to be fascinating. Obviously he goes into it with Tottenham where they've used almost like a get out of jail card by winning the Europa League, getting themselves into that Champions League. So now Tottenham becomes more desirable, a place where you

want to go and play your football. I know he talks about the stadium and the training facilities that he has put in Daniel Levy and rightly so, it's an incredible set up that Spurs have got. But one thing that they are lacking is the ability to draw players with money. So what can you do apart from that? You can bring in Champions League football and players want to play Champions League football and they might accept 20 grand a week less to go and play Champions League football and players want to play Champions League football and they might accept 20 grand a week less to go and play Champions League football. So now Thomas Frank's got a different shopping list that he can go out and use this summer.

I think he's bought well so far in a short space of time that he's been at the football club. I think there'll be more comings and goings throughout the summer. But I'm like Pat, I'm with Pat. I was fortunate for a couple of years ago to go out to America and spend time with Thomas Frank, watch them train, and he is a very, very likable guy.

But what he does have is he has an edge to him as well on the training pitch, which is great to see. Because what you've got to have is you've got to have that likability that when you walk into the training grounds, you look forward to working with that manager that when you walk into the training grounds you look forward to working with that manager, you want to run for a brick wall as the cliché goes or the saying goes, but also that tactically he's got something about him, but also that he's got the ability to make big decisions and I think we've seen that from him in a

short space of time at Brentford and he's going to have to make big decisions going into this season and I think he's very capable. You're right in that Daniel Levy interview there was a lot of time spent on the infrastructure which cannot be underestimated how good a job that they've done in terms of building that magnificent stadium. Although Gary Neville got into it much more than I was, they were talking about transfer beams and all kinds of things, it got a bit technical in terms of the construction of the stadium. In terms of the football itself,

Pat, the question that was asked after Tottenham won the Europa League was whether winning silverware does change the mentality of a club, whether it actually can affect what happens at the club. And it was a criticism. Do you think that it is something that can change, that once players have a taste of silverware, that they want more?

Can you remember Jose Mourinho, that guy, when he came in at Chelsea? And his first was when they won, what was it basically, the League Cup at the time? And he said how important it was. And you all thought that was another classic Jose line. No, it wasn't. It's exactly what happened. They became serial winners after that. And I thought a lot of managers do feel that. A lot of coaches feel that way. You are serial winners because everybody in the world can say, I'm a winner, right? I want to be a winner.

Anyone can say that. But there's this difference between thinking you're a winner and knowing you are one. When you know you're one, it's different. And certainly we've watched many, many teams. Getting to the top, you know, they always say staying there is the hardest, but winning a trophy, I actually think most of the time,

the first one's the hardest one. But it's not always a definite. It's definitely not certain. I mean, I'm sure Newcastle, was it 70 years ago, when they won a trophy, a domestic trophy, thought, yeah, we're going to rerun now. 70 years later they're going to win another one. Look it doesn't always happen but it gives you a little bit of a platform, it gives you a chance to buy players and it's just as Stephen was saying there.

Yeah there's some players they'll be interested in coming that might not have been interested in coming before because they're a team that wins or a team that's in the Champions League, they're not but if that sort of thing kind of helps. But, you know, Kuru is coming. That's pretty big news. We all know what a talented player, not so good a season last season, but the season before, you know that he's got it in him. We were disappointed for Spurs, not for Forrest, that they didn't get Gibbs White because that would have added another sort of strength to the ball. When you add Madison, when fit, which obviously is a big, big question now. That looks a really exciting, entertaining, creative sort of front area. And that would,

you know, when you start thinking, well, what would that look like in similarities to say the way Brentford were? And I think, yeah, I can see where they're going now. But, you know, good, good ish start, but like everybody else, the next few weeks before the transfer deadline shots are absolutely crucial to Tottenham Hotspur. I think the big thing is when you win a trophy is, is what's the next trophy you wanna win? You always wanna win a bigger one,

and that's the difficulty. So if you're wanting to win the Premier League or the Champions League, now you're going up against the very best. With all due respect to Spurs in the Europa League, they went up against a poor Manchester United team. The actual run to get to the final wasn't the most difficult,

but do that over 38 games in the Premier League season, that's difficult to go and try and win the Premier League trophy. Try and do it in the Champions League against the elite teams So where do spurs now see themselves winning trophy? Is it winning a domestic trophy and go and win in the FA Cup or the Carabao Cup? but now what we're seeing is is that teams feel like there there's an opportunity to go win those trophies because

Essentially the teams that are in Champions League football don't necessarily push too hard in those competitions. Well, they're a Champions League team now. So what's their main objective? Is it to go after one of those and take the focus off the Champions League? That won't be accepted by the fans. So this is where it's gonna be very difficult for Spurs to kick on and win another trophy,

unless they prioritise an FA Cup or a Carabao Cup. And it's whether or not Daniel the squad is capable of doing it. They've spent about 120 million on signings this summer. But as Pat pointed out, no Morgan Gibbs-White has chosen to stay at Nottingham Forest and perhaps that signifies, well one it's his loyalty to Forest but also it's maybe where he thinks the clubs will go over the coming seasons, but also the injury to James Madison, who's been in and out with injury over quite a while now. But this one, Thomas Frank said, is a bad knee injury. So is that squad good enough to kick on? I mean, I don't think it's a squad that's in the top four in the league. I think you'd have to argue amongst Aston Villa, Newcastle and Tottenham fans, whether it's a

top six squad, maybe Manchester United as well. I look at the squad and there's a lot of what I'd call maybe players who, one in every three games, produce a performance that I think that's why you were signed for quite a lot of money. That's what you can do. That's a level you can reach. And I think the million dollar question here for Tottenham is whether Ange-Poster Coghlu was a manager that perhaps fit that mood where you'd have peaks and then pretty worrying troughs and whether Thomas Frank is much more of a consistency site manager because what Spurs badly, badly last last season was a run of three, eight out of tens in a row. It was brilliant in moments and it was awful in moments and I think Frank is an improver

of players, that's what he's proven at Brentford. He can make a squad greater than the sum of its parts. He can move away from selling the best or the most experienced players and the loss of Hyun-min Son, although I think it's the right time to go. That will cause an issue in the dressing room that must be factored in. Ben Davies is basically the one Premier League experienced player in that whole squad now. But yeah, I mean, Frank is an improver of players. His whole raison d'etre at Brentford was taking players, making them feel that they could be better than they were and bruising the noses of clubs six, seven, eight places above them. If Tottenham can do that this

season when six places above them is top of the league. Yeah, I think it'd be interesting to understand what the remit was when Thomas Frank went into the football club and what he said to Daniel Levy regarding transfers because I think if we look at transfers over the last few years it's been young up-and-coming players who have potential and trying to pinch them young cheap at a young age whereas if we see Paulinho has been linked with the football club, he's what, 28, 29 now? And I think that's a brilliant sign in for them because- He's 30 and he's coming in on loan,

which means that, you know, it's not, that they're not looking necessarily to get a return on him. No, and, but I also think it's a very clever move because you do need experience. You've got to bring in experience that can guide younger players. You can't have all these young players and just expect them to come together.

I think we saw that last year at Chelsea as well. A lot of young players are bought, but there's an element where you've got to have a two or three senior players, maybe more in the squad that can guide those players. Now, Chelsea fans might argue and say, well, we just won the Club World Cup. Great. But over the course of the season, you had ups and downs, pigs and trots throughout the season. You can't afford to have that and experience. It takes that element away from it a little bit more because you can guide the younger players.

So I just wonder whether Thomas Frank went in there and said, great, we've got the young potential, but we just need older players to help guide them. Just one point on that. And I love Daniel, you give that whole speech there about Spurs, you've concerned it of maybe in one word Spursy. And it is and the Spurs fans hate it but we all kind of know what it means. It means you're kind of kind of close, kind of alright, kind of brilliant in moments, let it slip at the last moment and it's so hard because lots of teams are like that.

It's not just Spurs that are like that, but it is the way, and a lot of the players you're talking about there, you look at someone like Tell, you think, yeah, yeah, then again, wow, that's going to be great. And then, well, where's he gone? And that is certainly the problem they've got to jump up to the next level.

I wouldn't compare them, Stephen, I wouldn't compare them with Chelsea. I know you're not completely comparing them, but Chelsea was an absolute plan. That's two years ago. They're not gonna do anything in the first two years. They knew that, I never thought they were doing it for the next two years.

This year, this is the year you absolutely find out. This year, I don't know if Spurs have got, they've got a plan, and certainly they've got a man who can then deliver a plan, but it's so early now and he's not got all the players in yet but I don't think it's going to be a just a young players plan this thing. I'm just looking at the other players they brought in, you've mentioned Koudelis Menjian, Paulina coming in, they've also brought in Matiste Tell, Kevin Danso and when you look at the players it looks as though it's a team, Steven you mentioned this earlier.

You could almost kind of put that Brentford blueprint on it. Yeah, I think one of the things when I went to America and watched Brentford train, one of the things that he spoke about was being a high pressing team. And he said, I wanna be the best pressing team in Europe, in the, if not the world. And he said, that's where I want my teams to play,

high off the front, winning the ball back, high up the pitch. So I think it's going to be fascinating to see that style of football that spurs the season. I think what we saw from the pre-season runs as he took his run in from Brentford, that 1000-metre run, which is effectively ten lengths of the pitch where you have to do it in a certain time and he was trying to make sure that the players can play to the level that he wants them to be able to play at which is which is going to be fascinating but again it's a it's a shift in mentality from the players to to go and prove themselves to a new manager and can they can they fulfill what he's after. The big thing is is that it's okay wanting to play that way the

other thing you have to do is you have to be able to play that way in front of the fans Then top of that you need a big squad. Yes, and a big squad that is well capable because you're gonna get injuries That's what I understood. I saw what's done is doing that up at Celtic and then it won because they Absolutely torture teams for 45 50 60 minutes and they're usually-0 up at that point and then they tired most games. They tried to do that sports, you couldn't do it. It was almost, it would happen now and again. Trying to get a group of players capable of doing that, there will be breakdowns. You need a bigger squad and you knew that. Thomas Frank will know that as well. So if he's asking those players to do that, he knows he needs to add a little bit. And by the way, see if you're a player that's been in there a couple of years and

thinking maybe I'll get a rest now. Tough luck. You're going to get one. No chance. The other advantage Thomas Frank has got is that those defenders and I look player for player and I think that bat four of Porro, van der Ven, Romero and either Udogi or Spence at left back, it could It could easily have been under another manager the strongest element of that team, but because it was made to look slightly ragged last season tactically with the high defensive line and this sort of kamikaze football at times. And also injuries, Daniel.

Yeah, and injuries as well. But I wonder if Tom Schranke going in will be able to say, look, everybody liked how you played last season, that's fine. But what we need to do now is to take the fine elements of last season, of which winning a trophy was by a mile the most important, and let's refine that and turn that into Premier League football, not into Cup football, because for Tottenham to improve sustainably, they need to become a Premier League team. And last season, as a Premier League team they finished 17th

and that's not only not good enough but it's ten places below not good enough. To change that they're gonna have to build around that defence. That's basically what Thomas Frank wanted to do at Brentford. He wanted to press without the ball and then he wanted to have a defence that would, when that press was broken through, could withhold set piece pressure and open play pressure. But I think that's why Paulini has been brought in isn't it, is to protect that back four. You can't just rely on a back four because as Daniel says there, it's a good back four, it's capable of being a good back four but you're only as good as the players in front of you

and that protection that you're given. So if you look at, I know Chelsea won it the World Club Cup but if we look at Paris Saint-Germain as a team over the course of the season, they were phenomenal from front to back. And that midfield, we talked about it so much, and it was just the way that they were able to protect the back four, but also the way that they pressed in the front, that's the balance that you're trying

to achieve. And Kelly, when you talk about keeping players fit, I wonder what Thomas Frank will do to his training sessions, how he will manage those training sessions, because we know the game's high-tempo, we know everyone wants to press, but there's got to be an element of how do you do that? How do you carry that out throughout the season?

How do you keep those players fit? Is that gonna be a new backroom staff? Is it gonna be the changes leading into training? Do you actually train harder? People often think, oh, you slow down. Sometimes there's an element of, if you think about a marathon and you're training for, what, 22 weeks leading up to it,

you build up to a marathon, you keep on building and building and building. You don't stop at 16 miles and go, well, I'll just fudge the other sort of eight miles and get on with it. That's not how it works. You continue to go right until the end, and that's how you essentially train.

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Listen, only on BBC Sounds. On the Football Daily Podcast, the Monday Night Club with Kelly Kitts. Listen on BBC Sounds. In Scotland, Celtic started the defence of their title with a 1-0 win over St Mirren. Rangers held to a one-all draw by Motherwell and New

Rangers boss Russell Martin criticised his team on Saturday. He called for some players to drop their ego. He also said that his side pick and choose when we want to play properly and when we want to run hard. When the game's not going well we have too many players that want to do their own thing and slip into self-preservation. Martin spoke today and elaborated on his comments over the weekend. I'm just not here to play any games really and I'm in a job that demands certain things and when we fall short of that there's just no point in hiding behind stuff and you know when the fundamental problem on Saturday was not knowledge, it was not ability, it was attitude. So the

response has been good. You have to watch some clips in here, in this room you sit in now and I have to explain to them why, to make them understand what's expected and what's not going to be acceptable. I think these football clubs and the supporters will demand certain things are not acceptable and certain things have to be shown every single minute you're on the pitch. It's the same old stuff I've said from day one, just fight, willingness to run, to help each other out. It's always go back to being really horrible and hard to play against and we weren't hard enough to play against on Saturday. So that's all it came down to. There was no point in sugarcoating it. The players know what to expect. I'm really honest with

everyone else and people can make what they want of it. We're three games in, we haven't been beaten in any of them games but we have a lot to improve and work on. I think the lads who trained like beasts yesterday, they were fantastic and I think maybe some of them sent an opportunity to play. But honestly, I said to you from day one, they've trained. This is the frustration I think on Saturday. They trained like beasts. We have European games where we had tough moments in first half. They come out together resilient and fight and run. And then they actually shifted too much on Saturday the other way. And that's the frustration because you work so hard for five weeks, it's not a long time to put a certain performance on the pitch and if that's not going to look quite right, fine, because I don't think anyone

expects after five weeks for it to look perfect, but come on, let's have a level of application and effort that gets us over the line whilst we're trying to develop something and changing so much. Ian Mitchell joins us from the This Is Ibrox podcast. Hi Ian. Hi guys, how you doing? Good. What do you think about Russell Martins saying all this? I don't think any Rangers fan would disagree with it to be honest. That's the thing from the weekend. No Rangers fan has learned anything too new. That's what this squad do, they're strong in Europe, they do very well, they over-perform, they out-punch,

and then when it comes to the domestic stuff, they just can't be bothered, it seems. And it's pretty scathing, the things that Russell Barnes has been saying, but it's no different to what myself, my friends, we see this every week, every season, it feels like. So nothing new, and for me, as long as

you've got the majority of those players still in position, you're going to keep saying the same thing. It doesn't matter who the manager would be at that point sadly. The timing of it's interesting because he had to talk about you know maybe he'd gone too early. Normally this is what a manager does near the end of his time. It's quite interesting that he's drawn that line now. Yes and I can see there was a few people from time. It's quite interesting that he's drawn that line now. Yes, and I can see there was a few people from afar saying that's quite bold, you know,

throwing players under the bus in day one. It's not a great start, obviously, but they do need these home truths because we've had too many seasons, too many other managers who have maybe sugarcoated at times. Maybe said, oh, we played quite well, we were unlucky, this ball didn't bounce our way, that offside goal done,

this and that. But fans aren't stupid. We see the same thing, we see the same patterns happening, and we see the same concerns that obviously Russell Martins sees now. And for me, like I say, I can't stress enough, nothing was surprising there. When that game was ticking along,

even as early as 50, 60 minutes, all my friends turned to each other and said, well, we know how this going to go. And the goal went in. No one reacted angrily, no one was shocked, it was just, yeah, that happens. And it's very akin to what Celtic done yesterday. You know they're going to score and it's very easy for an opposition fan to say, like, the team that I don't like is going to score a last minute goal. But it's just that mentality thing. They keep going and getting the goal. We shy away, we get nervous, we get anxious. Concede the goal. And you can only watch that for so many years before that becomes the absolute norm, sadly. Is there an element here of this is Russell Marting evolving as a manager? In the fact of at Southampton,

the words used there were horrible and hard to play against. Where Southampton that last words used there were, horrible and hard to play against. Where Southampton that last year? At any point, was that what we were all crying out for them to be? Is there an element where he's walked away and said, I don't wanna be sacked again. So I'm gonna have to change my demeanor, I'm gonna have to change the way I approach things.

And maybe he's just self-reflected over his time off and thought, there's gonna be a different approach and it's not gonna be the same Russell Martin. And I think that's a positive thing, I really do. I think for me, that's something that we got to go along as part of fan media and meet Russell Martin on the day he was announced and just have a kind of general chat about what we saw and what he thought

and something he kept stressing was that at his time at Southampton, he wanted to be more aggressive, be more experienced, be not a dirty team, but a dutier team, because I mean, anyone could see it, even from myself up here. So that would probably be the easiest team to play in the league last season, because they would try and play it out,

but have the facilities to do that, and you know, it's only gonna end one way. And I think that was our kind of nervousness, as Raiders have been quite an easy team to play over the years. And I think if you look at every signing he's made they're all six foot two plus they're all quite athletic there's certainly a more aggressive style in the signings but just for me there's still too many individuals in that squad who don't have that physique, don't have that mentality and it's going to take a good few transfer windows before that's properly corrected for me and that's where does Russell Martin get the time

if we are dropping points every few weeks and he's simply not going to appear and that for all means I really hope he stays and does well and develops something because what he says is great, what he does in the training pitch sounds great, it looks good from the clips that you see but if that then doesn't translate to the game at the weekend, what's the point in it all really? Ian I think it's really interesting that he met the fan media before the start of the season and kind of listened as much as spoke to you. Do you think there's an element of him telling fans what they want to hear, like saying, I've heard what your problems are and what your concerns are about this team and I'm going to make sure this is going to change on my watch. Yeah, very much so and

something he also stressed is that he watched a lot of Rangers before he got the job, when he was linked to it, when he was obviously sort of new before anyone else he was getting it, he seems to watch, seems to have watched a lot of the games from sort of new year onwards, so I think he would have had those sort of pre-thoughts and thought, well, this player doesn't look up to it. But obviously he gets to train them, gets to meet them. Some people surprise them, they admitted that themselves. Some people are going to,

but it's all well and good doing things in training. I think when it comes to the game, as you guys know a lot better than me, it's a very different environment. It's a different setting. And sometimes you can be the best player in training, you can't do it the weekend. And I think this squad just has too many guys like that at this point and it's going to

take quite a lot of business in and out to correct that. Ian you were saying it's going to take a lot of business to in and change that, this is Rangers, this is Glasgow Rangers, that takes time, he's not going to get it is he? As a fan, you're not going to wait an entire year now. And if you go to the Cups early and Celtic show a clean pair of heels once again, it kind of doesn't matter what it does. You get the feeling people won't stand by him. And I feel really sorry for him because it takes quite a long time to build a team, especially as you're adapting them. Do you think the Rangers fans have got it in them to give them more than six months if it's not working? We played our first pre-season game against Club Rouge with basically a B team that was kids playing. We were two and a half time and they got booed off the puck. That's a game that means nothing. It's a game with players we know don't have a future here, and the fans weren't having it.

And we have insane standards at Rangers. That's why the club is what it is. Despite the lack of success over the last few years, that's never going to change. So it doesn't matter how you play it away. Although we want to see lovely football, we want to see great passing moves and these philosophies developed, if you don't pick up three points, it really doesn't matter. And again, I wish as a fan which we did have more patience, it might lead to more success in that long term because as you say, it takes years to develop these things but you're not going to get that time at most clubs these days obviously but at

Rangers in particular it's just simply not going to happen. It strikes me that the comments have clearly played pretty well with fans him but what matters here more is how they've played with Russell Martins players. I know he has come out and said they look, you know, they all look up for it in training and so on but his football as with all these sort of tactical dogmatists require a huge amount of buy-in from players every day. Have to completely buy into the system because it's hard work to learn new things, it's hard work to be pushed on the training ground, it's hard work to play in a league where you are expected by the fans to win pretty much every game. The question is whether doing this level of dressing down this

early, this publicly in your reign, whether that is going to help you buy in with players. It might work with some but Steven and Pat will know more than me. There must be some players in that dressing room who think, well, hang on a minute, you've only been here five minutes and you're already calling me out in public. Yeah, I think there's got to be an aura about you as a manager where you've got that fear element as well.

I think you've got to have that. I think you can't be the nice guy. I think we live in a society now where everyone wants an arm around the shoulder. I think there's certain players that need that I think there's others that that won't That need a little bit of addressing down and respond better to that, but it's it's knowing them plays how to do it I think that the thing that surprised me was just that it was an overall view for everyone not set behind closed doors and almost I'll address this in my own way. I'll deal with it and it's been dealt with behind the scenes

I think when you listen to his comments talk about the training session and how the next day they train like beasts, he got a response. So there will be an element of, well, he is the manager, so we're gonna have to back him because he is gonna get at least six months, and if we don't back him and try and play the style of play, we don't play. So that's a tough thing.

It wasn't total nuclear option, because they didn't name names. That's the one thing he stuck away from there. But always remember the thing, I never forgot one of the great things I learned listening to Mourinho years ago. I asked him a question and said, see when you're talking to the media after a game,

who are you talking to? Are you talking to the guys in front of you? Are you talking to the wider media? Are you talking to the fans? Are you talking to the media after a game, who are you talking to? Are you talking to the guys in front of you? Are you talking to the wider media? Are you talking to the fans? Are you talking to your board? Are you talking to the officials for next week? Are you talking to your players? Give us a one, two, three.

You said number one, my players. Number two, my players. Number three, my players. Remember, every time a manager speaks, we think he's maybe closing up a wee bit to the fans, it's all in back. It's all in back. It's all in back Nobody can do anything for you said the players so he was trying his best to get some reaction as you said Absolutely problem is you can't keep on going to that same place. You can only go there a certain amount of times

So to go early, that's why some of us question it and he was talking about it there That's why some of us question it Can I go there all the time? Yeah, but Pat, you can go there early in a transfer window as well. That's the one thing that you can do is almost, I know you say there you're talking to the players, but one of them must have been talking to the board

out of the three because it was almost, some of the players aren't responding to what I need. So if we can wheel and deal a little bit and get the players through the door that I need, our form will pick up. Oh, by the way, you're dead right, Brendan Rodgers did the same thing the week before. He'd be talking directly to his board because he wanted another couple of players at Celtic Park. But Pat, as you said, he didn't go nuclear. It was all very calm, all very controlled.

His words were strong, but his tone was very calm. But he did, as you say, talk about a couple of egos in the team and he, as you pointed out, didn't name names. Ian, would you like to name names? Who are the players that you look at? That's not very interesting. Do you know what? They're not pulling their weight. Effectively what Russell Martyn was saying is they go hiding when things are difficult who would be the players that you would would lay that accusation up we maybe don't have enough time in this show

there's been quite a lot of players linked his moves away so you look at Ikeman's been linked to going to France, Diomande at Everton, Raskin, Villa and so on and so on. These are young footballers, this is probably their big rumour, their big move. Has that gone to their heads a little bit? I mean it's quite telling they play pretty well against Panathinaikos. Not perfect by all means, those performances are still error ridden in truth but there were some very good individual performances where they know the cameras are on, the big lights, everyone's watching these kind of games, like I touched on at the start, you know, last season we can get a point against Tottenham

who win the Europa League, we go to Old Trafford and Chelsea lose out to last minute goal, you know, these are great performances when all eyes are on you, when it's the trip to Motherwell, your trip to Ross County, your trip to wherever domestically, they don't show up. And it's no coincidence that it's the same kind of guys who don't show up and don't show up in the league too often. But that's just me, my own stance on it. I know a lot of people will point at James Tavernier

and the fact that this is his 10th season now and he's won one league trophy. They're very easy to stick to beating with but it's factual and if you're the captain of the club you're going to take that rap. More so especially you bring in a guy like Max Ahrens to play as the right back and suddenly he's shipped out of position so that Tavneer can keep his place. These things just great on you and how great Tavneer has been for us as a club. It is factual that he has passed his best but he's still playing 90 minutes every single week. Then again he's not every problem as Taveniers but it's

a very easy stick for his fans to go with until players like that get dropped. Not dropped forever but I think tomorrow night's squad is very interesting whether a few names do step out who we are used to seeing. But that's going to tell, as Stephen said, how evolved Russell Martin's got, if he has the character to do that so early into his reign, when it could turn a lot of key players against him so early. I think Ian's hit the nail on the head there. It's all very well not naming names

in the 20 minutes after the final whistle, but when you've got to pick another team in three days and four of the players who were in the team aren't in the team anymore. I think we've already got the names, haven't we? It's not a secret at that point. Yeah, we're not all playing Cluedo here. We're all all right.

We might be able to guess a few of them. Ian, look, as everybody's been saying, nobody gets time in football anymore. You maybe even get a bit less time, as you were saying at Rangers, and you certainly might get a bit less time again with Rangers fans who are fed up as they have been over the the last

few years. So what does Russell Martin need to do in order to buy himself some more time? I think the board could do my favour in terms of selling players to then bring in new players. We've seen someone today, Ankhman's come in who's a better option on the right wing than we've had all season in Kierendale so that's one thing fixed but for me you're still wanting the left back. You want another centre back. You want this, that. So as good as Russell Martin might be as a manager,

as great as his philosophy is going to be. If you're playing guys that don't suit a Russell Martin team, there isn't anything Russell Martin can do for me. So like I say, I'd be quite keen to see a few new faces tomorrow and drop some of those egos that he's talking about. But whether he does that or not, I have my doubts, sadly. Team News tomorrow is going to be fascinating, isn't it? It's going to give us a real insight and a little extra layer to those Russell Martin

comments. You can hear commentary of Rangers against Victoria Pilton in the Champions League third qualifying round on five sports extra from 7.45. Ian, thanks so much for joining us. Really good to talk to you. Thank you guys. Cheers. Good luck. Thank you very much. That was Ian Mitchell from the This Is Ibrox podcast on what happens next for Russell Martin. The Premier League pre-season is in full swing, even though we're

in the early stages of the Champions League. The Scottish Premiership is underway, EFL is underway, but we're still in pre-season in the Premier League and obviously clubs often go off to visit Asia, the US, Australia in pre-season, but Fabian Herzler and Brighton have taken a different approach. Their pre-season preparation has featured a 10-day private training camp in Spain. Five of their six friendlies have been behind closed doors. The only match they've played with the crowd was a two-all draw on Saturday against South Hampton and then they've got another preseason match against Wolfsburg on Saturday at the Amex. It's a very interesting approach Pat to keep it all

in-house and some of the reasons they've said have been about being able to control what what they're doing to be be able to play the way that they want to, it's not necessarily all about, you know, we've got this incredible secret plan to go out and destroy the rest of the Premier League next season and we can't let anybody know what it is, it's just we need a bit of time and we need a bit of space to be able to do it. Yeah, you think of the norm now as you you say to globetrot go around the world, you know. Why? I think we all know why. It's lucrative. It's the money. You make money out of that and it's not just the money, it's the clicks that you're going to get, it's

the social media effect that you're going to get in places, be it Hong Kong, be it Indonesia, be it America. Is it the best place to always, and will you get the best type of games that you need that are gonna be closest to what you're going to play at home? Generally no. And I know sometimes you'll play other Premier League clubs when you're over there, but it's a glorified friendly that you could have actually played perfectly well at home without everyone being more exhausted.

Most managers don't say it out loud, but most managers don't want it. They would rather be much, much closer to home, spending less time travelling and being able to have a little bit more control as opposed to the other side of the club controlling them and making sure they're doing the marketing at the club. So, Brian... Mind you, they like the budget for the transfer market, don't they? But I mean, it's all very well. See, you make, what is it, you're gonna make five, 10 million, right? See, you lose a point because you're a bit tired at the start of the season. That might be worth 10 million or 5 million to where you finish.

So it sounds really good, that sort of thing, but sometimes these are, they're false economies. And I've seen these false economies many, many times when teams come back and you think You don't look ready because you're packed far too much in. Now this goes back millions of years to Remember Pelly talking about this with his Santos team. This is a long long time ago, but it's always the same So the clubs that do it best are the clubs that do what they think is best for the actual players and I know it sounds very old-fashioned but you've got to do what's right for the players, particularly as they are now being stressed far far too much with far too many games. Righton also, it's a slightly unique club in the Premier League. They've done more business than anyone else. They've signed six players and lost

eight I think on permanent deals. I know this will have been decided before all that started, but it kind of made sense with a young coach who loves control to just take the noise away. It's a young squad. They don't need to the kind of external noise of people caring about pre-season results. That's why you play them behind closed doors games. So I think it kind of is, if you'd have said to us at the start of the show, one Premier League club has done this pre-season, who do you all reckon it would be?

I reckon at least two of us would probably have said Brighton, because it's kind of, it fits their mould of, let's just go away, no noise, concentrate on our own thing, work on some tactical things with some new young players. We spent 40 million quid on a young Greek striker, for example. How do we make that work? It's very Brighton, isn't it? I think the other thing is as well is, I don't wanna sound disrespectful here when I say it, but I'm gonna say it anyway, is are they gonna gain many more fans by going away to Asia, America? Because then you're competing against Manchester United,

Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester City. It's very difficult to suddenly turn someone to go go and buy that Brighton shirt and support that team. So like you say, if you can keep that team local, do less traveling, make sure that you've got a nice training facility where you can work hard. It's almost that element of, like you say, keeping a tight knit.

I don't quite get the behind closed doors bit because I still think you wanna create some revenue and I think it's a bit unfair on the team that you're playing. You're bright and you're gonna be playing lesser teams. Give them an income stream. There's got to be an element of that care to the pyramid in the game. And I think there's an element not just to the teams

in our league, but with teams in Europe as well. So if you can actually get people to buy tickets then I still think you should be doing that. The main thing I get from the preseason is that I'm almost certain it was Fabian Herzl's idea and I think what they learned from last season and certainly learned from having their fingers burnt with Roberto D'Azurbi is that you need to create a culture right for the manager that's there. They really believe in Herzlsel. They basically think he is, you know, he was born with a Brighton kit on because they think he's perfect for that system and

for the culture of the club. So if that's what he wants, let him do it. Yeah and he's all but said that Hurtsel hasn't he? He said I just I really just love control and I want everything done the way that I want it and we should, given that we started this Monday night club talking about Daniel Levy and the sort of criticism that's been levelled at him and the way that I want it. And we should, given that we started this Monday night club talking about Daniel Levy and the sort of criticism that's been leveled at him and the protest that they've had against him at the club, should we praise the chief exec at Brighton Paul Barber

for not taking the opportunity to go and do a tour abroad and not taking that extra revenue stream saying, do you know what, we're gonna give the manager everything he needs to get the squad right for the start of the season. I'm of the belief that if you start the season well and you've had a good pre-season, that money that you might've made in pre-season

off commercial things, you will more than make up for in league positions. And I think what they've had a taste of is Europe and they'll want to get back into Europe All Herzl will be saying as a manager Allow me a preseason to do the best I can do for my players and at the end of it if it hasn't worked I'll take it on the chin I'll absolutely take it on the chin and next year if you want to do the commercial thing if he's still in the job

Then you can allow that to happen and look onto a team Who will struggle to fly under the radar this evening. If we're saying Brighton might be the kind of dark horses and are keeping everything under wraps. Manchester United won the Premier League summer series with a 2-0 draw against Everton in Atlanta. New signing Brian Emberma made his debut. Ruben Amorim said Emberma delivered everything he expected. On summer transfers, the Manchester United boss says the club is still a massive draw for potential signings despite no European

football next season. I have no doubts because there are some things that you cannot buy and this club have the pedigree, the history, the fans. I think that is clear. Then the money. We have money without the Champions League so we can, we'll have money and more money Then the money. We have money without the Champions League. So we can, we'll have money and more money in the future. And then I think it's clearly the culture. If you have a different culture, with all the pedigree, the money, all these things, we can return to our place and that is clear. You mentioned about last season and how you felt, but for someone who has gone into management

and everything has gone pretty well, you come to England, you've got a young family, what did it feel like when you were going home after another defeat and more problems? To tell you the truth, it's not how I return to my house after the games How I left to go to the games because I felt that sometimes we We will struggle all the struggles that we had in the games. I feel it before the game So that is the hardest part is to go to the game and know that we are not going to be competitive How we should be that is the hardest part when I I return I just look at my family and try to think in different things but was really frustrated and I know that all the credit that I have when I arrive,

I know that last year was used on that and now we have to perform. That was Ruben Ameriem talking to BBC Sports Simon Stone about the expectations on Manchester United this season. Stephen, they've won the Premier League summer series. Can we put any store by that? Nope. Can I second that? What about the draw of Manchester United? Ameriam talked about the money, the culture, the pedigree of Manchester United? Amorim talked about the money, the culture, the pedigree of Manchester United. Yeah, listen, people will always look at Manchester United and have the mindset, I can change it.

So Ruben Amorim thought it. The players that are going into the football club will believe it as well, that they can change what's going on. My big concern is, is that the players that they've bought in pre-season, I love Imbuermo. I think he's a superb signing. I think that is one of the best signings.

Have they paid a little bit too much for him? Only time will tell. My concern is with Cunha, magnificent player but off the ball doesn't do enough and when you look at Manchester United as a team they are very vulnerable to counter attacks, to getting the ball turned over and it's not just Cunha, you look at Casimiro in midfield, you look at Bruno, Bruno's incredible on the ball but but off the ball, people in the heyday would have loved to have played against him because you knew you could run off the back

of him and you can still do it now. So there are still massive problems at Manchester United. The leadership side of the team is still missing. It's not there. I listened to Bruno talking last night after the Everton game and he basically said, our standards dropped. My concern with Manchester United is that,

and he said some of the players' standards dropped. The concern for me is that those players don't realise when their standards are dropping, whereas the elite teams do, and they grab hold of each other in the moment, in a game, and they let each other know. They don't know how to do that. They haven't got that leadership quality and they are still poor in that midfield area.

Can I add the one thing I think they've got a big problem with? Every team I've ever watched or played with, it plays with three at the back. Whether that's 3-4-2-1, 3-5-2, whatever, to some degree the two most important players are the wing backs, the two wide people, because they'll end up being your creators. And the teams that have been great over the years doing that stuff, you always look to them. And Chelsea had a period there where they had Rhys James

and Chilwell on the one side, one on the other side. Even when Liverpool, at their very, very best, had the two, they weren't playing three at their back, but they were playing as wing backs all the time. And you had Trent flying downwards and Robertson going the other side. Absolute destruction when you're playing with wing backs like that. Now if your team is set up as a three and then something in the midfield, the wide players, the wide players are alright for Maneuver. That's not good enough. They need to be absolutely fantastic in that position. They need to be almost two players, giving you an extra player when they do that. That's what Bruno needs. He needs to get the guys in there that can do that

to that level, that can create, that can defend, do both of the things exactly to the same level and that level a high level. Yeah, Mbembo, great, Cunha, fabulous player. Bruno, lovely player. They need something else, they need them too. And before they get that, they're not going to get top four. I'm laughing here because Pat's very rightly making the point about the wing backs and the width that is not good enough. And all I'm here sitting thinking is, well, I'm not sure the spine of the team is good enough either.

I don't think I don't think Onana is in the top 10 goalkeepers in the Premier League. I don't think Rasmus Hoyne is in the top 10 strikerskers and I'm still not sure about Manuel Aguarte and I am sure about Casemiro. So the spine of the team, Kuner and Mbemho are very, very good players and potentially very, very good signings but they feel to me like the sort of signings who are adding to a structure. They're not the structure itself and I'm not sure they've got the structure itself in place. You talk there about Ugarte. Now, Paris Saint-Germain, everyone was saying,

well, why are they getting rid of him? Well, there's a reason they got rid of him because he wasn't good enough on the ball. If you look at that team from Paris Saint-Germain last year, Ugarte's biggest weakness is when Manchester United have the ball. His strength is when they lose it, is trying to win it back.

But when he wins it back and you want to retain possession, he's actually not good enough on the ball. He's a very good footballer, but to be an elite level footballer, he's not at that level. And that is when you're playing a two in midfield, one of them has gotta be a maestro on the ball. One of them has got to be able to dictate that ball

and dictate the tempo. And when you're so light in midfield, it's not looking good for them. No, there might yet be another signing to come in, maybe more, but Benjamin Shesko, Manchester United, with the team that were first linked with him. So if they're in for him and if the reports that they are maybe prepared to sell

Rasmus Hoeyland for about 30 million pounds are true, there could yet be a couple of tweaks before we get to the start of the season, or certainly to the end of the transfer window for Manchester United. Just to go back to Amorim's comments and to put them into the context of a conversation that I feel I heard a lot,

particularly towards the end of last season, which is that in order for Manchester United to build back to where they want to be, they have to accept where they are. And when Amorim comes out and talks about the prestige of the club, the pedigree, the culture of the club, the fact that they have the ability to spend, does that sound like somebody who publicly at least is acknowledging a club that finished 15th in the league last season?

I think what it is, and Pat mentioned five or 10 minutes ago about managers speaking to the players in public when they do interviews and I think this is probably a perfect example. I think it's a call to arms for those players to say that you don't get to play at 90% here. We've got the funds, whether we can spend it with regards to PSR is a different argument, but they have the funds as a club, they have the generational wealth as a club to replace players who aren't good enough over time. And Amarum is saying to them, look the club have backed me to be here longer than you if you don't put your weight to 100 percent. We've had too many years of not good enough, not good enough results, not good enough attitude and not good enough structurally behind the club. And Amarum is saying,

I'm the guy, I will outlast you if you don't give me enough whether that works who knows because Manchester United managers before him have said pretty much exactly the same thing. The other worry about it is is Manchester United are rubbish at spending money yeah so it's okay saying yeah we'll buy the players we'll go and buy some good players then and go and buy the right players because you have wasted probably best part of half a billion in recent seasons on players that now hold no value or less value than you bought them in at and you look at other teams i.e. Abryton who have spent well and more often than not get a huge return on the

players so United as much as they've got money don't know how to spend it. Which doesn't bode well for this season for the rest of the transfer window. However, they will be hoping that this is the season that they can turn things around at Manchester United. And they are, as we said, you can put as much or as little emphasis on this as you like, but the Premier League summer series winners. You only beat what's in front of you, Steven. Very true, very true. Pat, Steven, Daniel, thank you very much. That is it for this episode of the Monday Night Club.

Thank you for listening. In the mid-90s, whilst Britain was having its beckon moment, South Africa was having its own. But cricket captain Hansi Kroenje didn't kick the ball, he hit it for six. I must congratulate in particular, Captain Hansi Kroenje. Hansi Kroenje could do no wrong, but in January 2000 he did. South African cricket captain Hansi Kroenje and three teammates have been accused of match fixing. I'm Mark Butcher, former England cricketer. Join me for sports strangest crimes.

Hansi Kroenje, Fall from Grace. Listen on BBC Sounds.