Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Amorim’s criticism & Postecoglou’s Tottenham

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

After Ruben Amorim called his Manchester United team “maybe the worst” in the club’s history, how will his players react? And what is the sports science behind Ange Postecoglou’s playing style at Tottenham?Mark Chapman is joined by Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Shay Given on the Monday Night Club to react to the weekend’s biggest stories. How will the Manchester United dressing room react to Ruben Amorim’s criticism after another home defeat? What are the challenges of adapting from a back four to a back three? Former Everton and Sheffield United defender Phil Jagielka drops by to explain how to benefit the best from the change in playing style and what Manchester United need to do for it to be successful. Plus, the panel chat to Anton McElhone, Ange Postecoglou’s head of sports science from his time at Celtic. How does the role of a sports scientist work, and how does Ange Postecoglou embrace the role?TIME CODES:00:30 – A momentous weekend for Chris Wood 02:20 – Ruben Amorim 03:10 – Reaction to Amorim’s comments 13:30 – Phil Jagielka on a back 3 22:00 – Sports scientist Anton McElhone

BBC Sounds Music, Radio, Podcasts This is 5 Live Sports The Monday Night Club with Mark Chapman Listen on BBC Sounds Welcome to the Monday Night Club on the Football Daily Pod

Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Shade Given are with us We'll be joined a little bit later on by Head of Sports Science Anton McElhorn to talk Tottenham and Phil Jagielka will join, to talk Tottenham. And Phil Jagielka will join us to talk about the difference between playing in a back four and a back three. But, Chris Sutton, it is quite a momentous weekend for Chris Wood. Do you know why?

No, sadly. He's now got 83 Premier League goals. And that means he is level as the all-time leading Premier League goal scorer called Chris, alongside... Well, it must be me. It is, yeah. Yeah, it must be me.

I'm fed up of all Match of the Day graphics having Alan on and not you, so I've tried to find a record that has you on it, and it's a momentous weekend for it. No, that's lovely. I hope he doesn't score again. I mean, I do. I do, secretly. Yeah.

But imagine had I had another five years in the Premier League. I'd have maybe had 300. You would have done. You would have done. And for any pedants out there, we don't count Cristiano Ronaldo or Christian Benteke, who, strictly speaking, are ahead of Chris.

Are you following this, Shay? Yeah, but they never shortened their names, did they? It's not Chris Ronaldo or Chris Benteke. I thought Chris Benteke. So Chris Sutton has got more goals or less goals than Christian Benteke? Well, he's got less goals. Chris Sutton has?

Yeah. That surprises me. It does actually, doesn't it? Christian Ronaldo, no. Thanks for bringing that up, Shea. mnc.bbc.co.uk if you want to get in touch with us. You can get in touch via the BBC Sport YouTube channel as well. We're going to start with

Manchester United, and not because they lost at home to Brighton, because them losing at home hasn't become that much of a surprise, but more Ruben Amorim's comments after they were beaten on Sunday afternoon. This is what he had to say. In 10 games in Premier League, we won

two. I know that. Imagine what is this forë në Manchester United, imaginë, në që në qënë në më. Në shumë, me të këtë një coach në që nëshkënë në nështë coach. Me të këtë nështë nështë nështë.

Nështë nështë, me të këtë nështë nështë. Në shumë, me të këtë nështë nështë. Nështë, me të këtë nështë nështë. Nështë, me të këtë nështë nështë nështë. Nështë, me të këtë nështë nështë. Nështë, me të këtë nështë në shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë shumë sh that because we have to acknowledge that and to change that

so here go your headlines Surprised Shea? I don't know, what will he look into? I think maybe is he trying to take the pressure off his players perhaps or put pressure on the players, I don't know, or send a message to the board saying that we're clearly

not good enough, two wins in ten as he said worse than the previous coach yeah that all adds up but I think I think for me it's more a message to the powers that

be if I'm being honest I think he needs backing and I think he needs his own players in you know what's what's the alternative he says I'm not

naive and by saying that he means like I'm not naive I'm not unsackable as well I know he's only been there a short period of time but I just think, you know,

probably from January 1st, they should have maybe got a couple in just to try and freshen it up and give him some sort of support because in essence, he's managing 10 hags players and they weren't good enough under him and he's not got a magic wand

to make them better overnight. Who do you think he's trying to send a message to, Rory? I would have said the players, if I'm honest. I think it felt to me like it was designed yet again. It's not the first time he's done it. Is there an element of shock therapy about it? I mean, it's not historically accurate, but he's trying to kind of say, look, this group of players,

for all that we kind of talk about their shortcomings and their flaws, they are all pretty much all internationals with huge amounts of experience or bundles of potential. I wonder whether he's trying to kind of spark them into something to try and, I don't know, affront their dignity to make them perform in the way that we saw them did at Anfield and at the Emirates in that sort of two-week revival where Manchester United drew twice.

I think every time he kind of has a public engagement, I'm struck by how well he comes across. But he does give the impression of being a man who is increasingly realising just kind of the scale of the job that he's got just to kind of keep his head above water. He's not going to change, he said there. Well, he has changed, hasn't he, in 70-odd days which he's been in charge because in his first press conference, he said,

I truly believe in the players. And he mentioned the press and he said, I know that you guys don't believe in a lot of these players. And yet, within 70 days, essentially, coming out and saying what he said, the worst Manchester United team ever. I mean, what message is that? You know, he doesn't believe in this group of players. And I think it's a message to everyone.

It's normally when managers come out and are so strong, and it was so strong, that's normally a last resort. That's normally a last throw of the dice. Maybe, I think, maybe he may regret saying it i think everybody likes in what sorry in what scenario do you think do you think he could eventually regret saying it um because i i do think that you've you've got to try and keep the players on side and i agree totally with what shay says he could do with a bit of help. We all know that. He needs a couple of windows, you know, maybe more because personnel at Manchester United has been a huge problem.

But the bottom line is, you know, most of the players, if not all of the players who are involved at the weekend, is going to need them to fight and scrap for the rest of the season. Are you telling me that the players would have liked to hear that, that they are part of the worst Manchester United team in the club's history? Nobody would like that. And these are players who I think people have pointed fingers at

in the past who have downed tools. I mean, they are an amazing club. A couple of weeks ago, after the results at Liverpool, Martinez kept talking about it's the mindset. It's the mindset has mindset. It's, you know, it's the mindset has changed. It's different. And I think it was always going to be the,

the bigger test. I think we spoke about this before, actually, you know, the tougher test was always going to be when they needed to control games and, you know, against Southampton and Brighton, they clearly came up short.

But I think it, and I thought the same thing about the mindset quotes that Bruno Fernandes as well as Martinez kind of gave after that draw at Anfield and I remember being struck then I think as we discussed by the fact that they didn't sort of talk about tactics or you know we've had ages on the training pitch it was all kind of we kind of weren't paying attention before but we're paying

attention now. That's not a sustainable approach you can I imagine get yourself up for a game at Anfield when your fiercest rivals are in the thick of the title race. There's a motivation there not to be humiliated. You looked at Brighton, you always looked at Brighton and thought, well, that's the acid test. Brighton have won at Old Trafford two years in a row.

Brighton love going to Old Trafford. There was a point in history. So you'll run around at Anfield, but you won't run around at home to Brighton or at home to Bournemouth or at home to Southampton. Chappers, it doesn't make any sense to me either because I would assume you'll run around at Anfield, but you won't run around at home to Brighton or at home to Bournemouth or at home to Southampton. Chappers, it doesn't make any sense to me either because I would assume you just run around

because that's kind of what you're employed to do. But that was what Martinez and Fernandes' logic was. We have to run around like we ran around at Anfield and we weren't doing that before despite the fact that we were both in the team. That was what was so strange about those comments after the draw at Anfield. Now, I mean, I don't know.

I wonder to an extent if perhaps it's a message to the fans. There's an element of that from Amirim. What I wanted to ask Chris and Shea was, how would you have responded to that if your manager had done that, had said something that extreme? What would your reaction have been? I think me and Chris have worked under, obviously,

Kenny de Glees at Blackburn and myself at Newcastle as well. And one of his strongest points was actually sticking up for the players so for example had we lost he would have said

you know collectively today myself you know the manager the staff and the players weren't good enough

we've got to put it right next week even if we played terrible he would never like chuck us under the bus and in a sense

the changing room would be like alright then we've got to go out next week and sort of cover Kenny because he really

stuck up for us so by Ruben saying this you know it's very strong towards the players I mean the likes of I don't know

Maguire and Bruno the more senior players in the squad I mean what do they sit down together as a group of players without any staff in the room

and go lads this is unacceptable this is Manchester United this is nowhere near the levels we have to be at and the manager in a sense can only protect them for so long but that was my sort of thinking it's very strong this is unacceptable, this is Manchester United, this is nowhere near the levels we have to be at. And the manager, in a sense,

can only protect them for so long. But that was my sort of thinking. It's very strong on the players. And clearly, a lot of the players are playing below par and not good enough, I suppose, for the manager. Well, they're two separate things, aren't they, slightly? Yeah. Either they are playing below par for them, which asks a lot of questions of them,

more than just are you out of form, because this has been going on for a long time, or they aren't good enough, which then asks questions of a lot of other people. It's a bit of both. And also, the jersey's heavy at Manchester United. It's such a big club. It weighs heavy on certain players.

And their home performances have been... So the crowd at Old Trafford have obviously been rightly so getting on some of their backs and they can't handle the pressure and I

suppose two of the best results recently have been away from home of course at Etihad and at the Emirates as well where there's maybe

less pressure on them. How is that a message to the fans though? That's a peculiar message. Yeah I agree with

you. The fans are on his side I would argue. He seems to have the fans with him, which is not surprising because, you know, he's not long since had a big FA Cup win. He's had good results against Liverpool and City.

And also they are desperate for this manager to work. So I think they are prepared to give him time. And United fans generally, I think, have been really kind of cautious and sensible and kind of patient around the idea of, okay, this will take time. I mean, I'm guessing, Chris, I wouldn't pretend to be inside Ruben Amarim's head.

I just, I wonder if he's trying to kind of explain the scale of the challenge to the fans. He's saying, I get it. I know it's bad. I'm not stupid. That seemed to be the explicit bit of his message was, I am not an idiot. I can tell that this is not good enough, I know that you will have questions about me,

given that our form now is worse than it was under Ten Hag. So I wonder whether there was a little bit of stress into the fans that he understands the scale of the problem rather than trying to diminish it. But I am, yeah, you are quite right, Chris, as you always are, I don't know for certain. Sue and Rob emailed us, mnc at bbc.co.uk, Rory. They said, just wanted to say that if Mourinho or Conte or even Postacoglu had uttered the same words as Amarim,

well, fireworks and then some. Yeah, I suppose with Mourinho and Conte, you'd automatically assume, you're kind of preconditioned to assume that they are trying to send a message more to the board than anybody else. With Amarim, we don't have any prior knowledge of that. He may just be quite a kind of frank talker. He has been that way since before he got the job, to be honest.

I mean, you remember his press conference at Sporting before he was appointed. He was very much like, no, I won't be talking about that. He was very much in control of his messaging then. But I think the fact that the fans understand, he was very much in control of his messaging then. But I think that the fact that, I think the fact that the fans understand where he's coming from is quite important.

He is speaking, he's sending messages that the Man United fans at Old Trafford and outside Old Trafford kind of agree with. They know that this is really bad. They know that it's going to take ages.

They know that it's really hard work. With Mourinho and Conte in particular, you sometimes thought they were trying to get something out there that was in their head and not necessarily anywhere else. Do you also take into account... It's not going to help morale, is it, that comment? It's not going to help morale.

Does that not depend on how the players take it, though? Could the players not take it as a kind of, all right, we'd better really pull our socks up now? I don't know how many times that has to happen at Man Utd for it to actually work, but is that not the intention? I suspect there's a lot of egos in the Manchester United dressing room who will be privately

furious that the manager has called them out like that. Well, could you argue that they're not performing enough to deserve to have an ego? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A million percent. I totally agree

with you. This isn't new, is it, at Manchester United? This isn't new for Amberham. This happened under ten-half. This has gone on for a long, long time now. Can I ask you a sincere question? Because I have a slight technical problem here. This will be a first.

Yeah, go on then. Wow. I ought to have a fanfare or a trumpet or something. Here's a sincere question. When we say there are Eidos at Manchester United, do we mean like Manuel Ugarte or Christian Eriksen or Ahmad Diallo?

Because I don't think of any of those players particularly as having an Eido. I'm sure Manuel Ugarte has not come in from PSG where he had a really difficult season and immediately thought, you know what, I am bigger than this club. It has been an issue, Chris, you're quite right, at United, four years. But who is it? And how does it kind of transfer from player to player, even as they sell the ones that seem to be the problem? I'm going to bring Phil Jagielka into this, just to talk tactically about playing a back three. You've played a back four, Phil. You've played a back three. When you

look at United, why is playing a back three so difficult when Everton switched to a back three. When you look at United, why is playing a back three so difficult when Everton switched to a back three yesterday against Tottenham and played them off the park for 60 minutes? I think it's purely down to how you want to play the back three, whether it's a back three, whether it's a back five, and also what's ahead of it. I think the key aspect with Man U especially

is he's not happy with, I think, the middle one of the three is probably going to be Didlip or Maguire. They both don't want to be on either side. I thought Martinez would be perfect on the left side, but obviously he struggles because he doesn't want to go out wide of the box. Joros struggled a little bit as well.

Wing-back-wise, it's always difficult. I think the most successful teams probably have a right-footed right-sided one on a left-footed left-sided one and again if you want it to be a three you play wingers in the attacking areas if you want it as a five you go darlo okay an ideal word for world for man you'd probably go sure yeah obviously he's not fit then you'd probably look at you you know, Martinez, De Ligt, and then probably Joro as the most natural way

of looking at it. But again, because they play with inverted sort of left footers on the right, right footers on the left, it makes it so easy to play against.

All you've got to do is basically show them out wide and they're so uncomfortable. Darlow's done an okay job at left wing back, but realistically, you take him crossing the ball every day of the week. He's not that guy that's going to come inside and start playing amazing

passes then on the other side obviously he's tried Anthony he's tried Diallo it just doesn't work and I think um I think that's why you spoke about what his comments were I think he's basically saying yeah we're bad please don't blame me these aren't players i i'm gonna play the way i want to play i need some players to come and play in a system that i'm only gonna play then that that's nailed it hasn't it phil because you know on that comparison everton had a right footer on the right midfield right wing back they had a left footer as left wing back then they had o'brien and tarkovsky and Branthwaite. There was a natural balance every step of the way.

Whereas United then, to sum up, have got the inverted wing-backs and at least one of their three who isn't comfortable playing wide. The other example there is, Joro played right of the three on Thursday night and left of the three yesterday. Well, he's trying to find it. And I think he's purposely played. He's played about 70 different players

since he's got there. Everyone's literally got a chance. And I think he's just basically saying, look, I can't work my wonders until you give me the players that I want. Because he's openly said he's not going to change to a four.

He's not going to change tactically to what the squad maybe need between now and the end of the season I think they'd look a lot more secure playing probably four at the back and going somewhere else but he's not going to do that he's basically saying

I'm going to use this for six months coaching whoever gets on board will be with me next season if he's still there and whoever's not on board then please go away and that might be a message to the changing room maybe the changing room

expects him to change oh don't worry I realise we can't play three at a back we'll be back to a back four or whatever in a couple of months but he's basically saying no

I think one of the things I would pick out as well what you said Jags is about the changing especially the back three and the wing backs because you want a sort of

defensive unit and even the goalkeeper's been changed a bit that's solid like you know obviously the Arsenal result was a great result why not stick with that

back free for four or five six games he changes it for Southampton then he changes it again yesterday as a defender you want like people you're sort of

used to playing with next to long side you left or right whatever it is and he keeps changing it and I know it's a sort of trial period probably for a lot of the players

but at the same time when you get a good result, surely you should stick with that team that's got you the, you know, really defensive, solid performance. 100% and the same again. The keeper, the keeper's been very erratic. Well, he's probably played in front of

15 different players this season. And I'm not making up an excuse. He's made some absolute howlers. He's made some fantastic saves. But, you know, you're much more comfortable communicating with people that are on the same wavelength.

I think it's a difficult system to go in and play, especially if your team doesn't have great confidence. You know, it's interesting against Liverpool and Arsenal when they can be more of a five, you know, they can be solid

and break. But I think the issue they have is when they have to press high, then it becomes a problem. if the uh if the left wing back has to press the right back on the opposition team in a in a back four the opposite wing back naturally tucks back in tucks back round and then quick switches a play do for them they can't't have players everywhere. The back three or back five, you have an extra defender at the back. But Manchester United,

remember the Newcastle game where they had two in the middle of the park? It was Eriksen and Casemiro. They got absolutely slaughtered in there. And teams who set up with a four, they have three in the middle, they always have an overload. So that becomes a massive problem for

Manchester United against teams who come on to them, they can drop deep and they can become difficult, they can have four across the midfield and they can become difficult to break down. But when the onus is on them to press lesser teams, and when the expectation is there, I think

that's when they struggle. What did you want from the midfield two in front of you, Phil, when you played a back three? Or again, is that not very easy to answer because it depends? It totally depends. Like Chris said, if you're sitting in, you just want protection. But if you're going to go after a game and you're expected to win, especially at Old Trafford,

you need two people that can cover the ground that will support, you know, your two number tens and your striker who are pressing their sort of back four, you need them to be right behind him and get around the pitch. You just look at the Man Utd team and probably seven of the starters every week aren't very comfortable in the position that they're playing. I think

you can only name two or three, maybe the middle of the three, maybe Fernandes, that sort of suits in that role, but there's not many of the players, even Xerxes playing up front, he's not a classic number nine. So there's literally no one that's comfortable in their own position. You're also asking at times that the centre-halves,

one of the centre-halves to go into midfield at times and, you know, and pick up. And, you know, as I say, when the confidence isn't there, you have to be in sync, you have to connect. And that's a massive issue for Manchester United Could show off your skills when you go into midfield though can't you Phil?

No, no, no it's uncomfortable it's uncomfortable Nosebleed Exactly Cheers Phil thank you Phil Diago

with us on the Monday Night Club which then begs a final question on this Rory which is the new ownership group who are meant to take charge of football matters

bear a lot of responsibility here, don't they? I mean, I don't know which individual you would pick, but as a group, five of the players that started on Sunday were signed in the summer for a new manager that they

thought about replacing, but then gave a new contract to and then sacked three months later. It feels a bit like making excuses for Amarim to an extent but it's very hard to believe that if he'd been given that job in like June and had all summer to work with the players to familiarize themselves with the system to familiarize himself with the players and then the chance to recruit or have an influence on recruitment to make sure that the players that United signed suited the way he wanted to play, I feel

like they maybe wouldn't be 13th. The Football Daily Podcast on BBC Sounds. Sir Alex Ferguson is the most successful British manager of all time. So how did this apprentice toolmaker from Glasgow become one of the most iconic figures in sporting history?

His strength of character, his determination, the fight in him. Ferguson was every department. He can be persuasive, he can be charming, he can be frightening. Go down as the best, it's as simple as that. I'm Kelly Cates and this is Sporting Giants, Sir Alex Ferguson. I didn't want to feel what I couldn't feel. Listen on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily Podcast.

With Matt Chapman. Rory Smith, Shane Gibbon, Chris Sutton are with us. So much talk about Tottenham and the players that they have out injured at the moment and whether that is down to their style of football after they lost to North London Derby Pat Nevin on 5 Live said they just look a little bit tired

they didn't look as if they've got the legs and it happens to a lot of players if you're playing a high tempo game there's a huge amount of games they're playing they're not getting the rest they need because they've got a limited squad. All those excuses. This thing is you still need to be able to do it.

Delighted to say that joining us is Anton McElhorn, who is the head of sports science for Ange Poste Coghlu when he was at Celtic. Anton's also worked at Tottenham, at Grinit Morton, Bradford City, New England Revolution, most recently for Giovanni van Bronckhorst at Besiktas. Evening, Anton. Thank you very much for joining us.

Evening, Mark. Pleasure to be on. Just from within your role, first of all, before we get into the demands of Ange Postacoglu, every time you work for a different manager does your role change? Do demands ever stay the same on you? Every manager's got their own philosophy in how the game's wanting to be played so obviously that differs for you as a staff member for example at Tottenham you were a member of the club staff

so you have a different responsibility and role at Celtic again you didn't come in with Ange as a coaching staff so again you're working for a department you're working for the club whereas if you're working for Giovanni Van Bronck or Brad Friedel you're working as part of their coaching staff so there's there's different relationships with the coaching staff and the manager and how you can work and maybe the amount that you can actually get done on the pitch and in the gym and all the different areas. So a manager comes in and says, this is how I want to play.

Is there an average amount of time that you then think, well, it's going to take me this amount of time to get them conditioned for how you want to play? Or does it depend on the style again? It depends at the club. So, for example at Celtic they already played

a reasonably high tempo game they were on the front they played under Brendan Rodgers Neil Lennon they were used to winning games

obviously they had a poor season before Ange came in so that makes it easier if you're going from a team that is either a deep lying team

counter attack then you'll need more time but the team is already close enough to the sort of style that Ange wanted to play, but they require the right players to come into the system, the right sort of training and all the different things to match up.

And I apologise if any of these questions are, well, the majority of them will be stupid because obviously I don't know all the intricacies of your business. But if you go from being a deep line team to a team playing a high line and pressing high up and trying to win that ball back

in the final third are the metrics that you measure on individual players massively different? I wouldn't say massively different but for example if you take Besiktas so we played in a different league, different level, but the team is a collective.

It's all about the numbers. So you're starting 11 minus the goalkeeper. If you want to have a high-pressing, high-energy team, managers like Mauricio Pochettino would want players that can cover 11, 12k average for the game, with some players getting to 12 and 13. When you're a deep-lying team, you're probably averaging 10k per player with the odds, 11 to 12 and 13, when you're a deep-lying team, you're probably averaging 10k per player

with the odds 11 to 12k. So the team collective changes, but obviously the demand that you're playing on the players. So are you asking them to go forward? With Ange and with people like Mauricio, because of the style that they play, that naturally increases the numbers because there's a non-stop event,

forwards, back, forwards, back, whereas you're playing a non-stop event forwards back forwards back whereas you're playing a counter-attack your numbers are naturally lower but you will still have good high-speed metrics because of

the counter-attack but it depends on how many counter-attacks you make per game So if a manager comes in and I appreciate they may be coming from a

slightly different base and they may already be playing a slightly faster brand of football but Apostol Coghlu comes in at Celtic then and says, right, I want to play front foot, pressing, high-intensity football. I want a high line.

How do you then start to build your players up to get them from, let's say they were 11k, 11.5k, to sort of 12, 12.5k with the odd one at 13? I think some of the key things are recruitment. I think before you even touch the pitch, getting actually players who are identified that can cover the distance. So whether it was at Tottenham,

Dele Alli, Christian Eriksen, Harry Kane, these players were already high volume players who could do the meters. So obviously at Celtic, there was obviously Cal McGregor, Matt O'Reilly was brought in really. So from a recruitment point of view, you can actually

build a team very money ball like and bring in players who fit the system for the actual training response to develop that you need to obviously

work intensively to get the intensity of the game so whether that's small size of games 1v1 to 4v4 but in a larger scale you need to obviously

do pitch specifics or 11v11 so can you actually work on the field size pitch making sure the demands are similar to the game and how it's played so they would be the key things but it's obviously how often you train so for example Ange had a rule of thumb training was only 65

70 minutes tops so when we went into Celtic that was a challenge so how can you increase the training volume so there was training extras. So how can you increase the training volume? So there was training extras for individual players. We'd do extras after training, whether it was pre-training in the gym to allow more work done in the pitch or whether it was the warm-up. So rather than jogging around the pitch, having a stretch,

the warm-up had to start with the ball. So again, you can get passing drills in, waves of attack. You can get all the extra training drills and you get more bang for buck. So again, you've got to be very careful how you train them. But if you're smart, you can do more things within the session. Anton, how much did Ange Postakoglou sit there and listen to the sports science? And has that varied over the clubs that you have been at in terms of managers and interest and feedback? Yeah, listen, Ange would let it known, be quite clear.

So obviously John Kennedy, the assistant manager, who had quite good running of the club under Lennon, Brendan Rodgers, so he was the trusted assistant manager who planned the training in conjunction with Ange. This is the principles that I want to see in training. I want it to be intense. I want to see possession, lots of counterfeits John Kennedy would build the training

he would speak to myself and the other staff what do we need for each day the training programme that Ange worked on was his own style, so traditional British week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday, Friday, again John and different staff like myself had worked under different

structures, but you take the principles of any training structure and make sure that gets put in. So, for example, at Celtic, we would make sure certain things were done on a Tuesday because that was where you could get the most work done. Two days before the game, we would do a little bit less because you need to be fresh to go into the game.

But different managers would be very different because they've got their own training week, their own styles of how they want to train as well and he's very clear this is how I do it this is what I do each club the players will adapt through over the months and then he allows that to happen but again was very different as a collaboration the the job at Celtic for me was more of a managerial job so he didn't want his on the pitch delivering I had a team of staff who would be delivering the philosophy which was football first everything must start and end with the ball so it was very

different whereas with Mauricio or Giovanni he'd be maybe more hands-on in the pitch and more hands-on in communication as well. So when players and this this is sort of you know what people are talking about Tottenham's injuries at this moment in time. So when players are fatigued, and of course, sports scientists have the facility to understand when players are fatigued, and you go to Ange Postakoglu, is he his own person in that sense? Does he listen? Did he listen to sports science and think, well, I've got to drop them out now? Or was it just about if it's a big game, I'm going to take a chance,

a calculated risk that one of my star players will get through? So listen, Andrew's all about giving me the numbers, giving me the facts. His job is to make the decisions. That's what he gets paid for. That's not up to us as sports science staff. Never is, never will be. The managers that I've worked with, top, top managers, will make the decisions.

It's not up to us to dictate. That is not our job. Our job is to support, give the information, give the facts and figure. If it is dangerous, again, you would use the head of medical to stay clear from it.

But for example, with Ange, in year one, Kogu Furuhashi was injured going into the cup final. So a grade 2B hamstring injury, the manager spoke to myself, head of medical. Can we get the player fit and available for the game? It's a big risk.

The player wanted to play. We took the risk. We'd done the right strategies to try and get the player there. But it was on the manager's choice. He will decide whether he starts the game, whether he comes off. So, for example, most players, and I think Angie spoke about it, you're coming back, maybe your first game you might play 60 minutes, for example. So, Kyogo Furuhashi

were in the League Cup final, Angie's first trophy, if he can win it were 1-0 down in 60 minutes. Kyogo Furuhashi scores two goals and I think the end of the 60th minute starting the 70th. Angie's the boss, he will take the decision to take the player off, even if he's

been given the advice, that's his job because he is the leader at the end of the day take the decision to take the player off, even if he's been given the advice, that is his job because he is the leader at the end of the day of the club and for us it's the support and again it's his job that's on the line, again if you're working for the club very different but if you're with the manager, again that's different as well because you'll follow the manager usually but Andrew's

his own man, I think he is an exceptional leader and very strong in understanding, he has a good background in sports science and education from Australia. So he's very comfortable in dealing with the facts and the figures. When you say it's a risk, and obviously it's a risk with any player who's carrying any sort of injury, as a lot of players are all of the time, can you quantify that risk? Can you kind of put a number on that to say, okay, this is the exact nature of the risk we're taking?

So for example, at Celtic, we had a company called Zone 7, which was artificial intelligence. We would put in all our match data, training data, and it would give us estimates or predictions of the risk factor for certain players. So we would use that on a daily basis at Celtic, looking at our own numbers, looking at the stuff from Zone 7 and making estimations, right? Look at the facts. Is this player, is he robust? Does he get the experience? And you make the decisions and if it's something very, very extreme,

you would speak to the manager. But again, you don't go to the manager every day saying, oh, that player could get injured. These are all coulds. For the amount of injuries that are prevented, you'll never know. But there is factors that you can tell. But again, previous injury being the biggest factor is obviously with players age stage so for example at Celtic players like Felipe Jota had come into the club the most games he'd played on loan was 18 games but within the first three months at Celtic

he'd already played his 18 games so it takes time as Andrew would say to get players to play and adapt to the system but at Celt Celtic, I think after six months, he was afforded the ability to rotate the front five. So at 60 minutes, 65 minutes, the front three would come off. Maybe the two attacking eights would come off and he could get more players on to keep the freshness for the 60-game season. Whereas I think at Tottenham,

he's probably found that a lot more difficult because I don't think the strength and depth is the same as maybe some of the other top Premier League clubs like Man City, Chelsea. I would imagine the challenge of your job is particularly, you know, you will like the challenges that different managers set and the requirements that they need from you.

At the same time, I would imagine it, particularly in the Premier League, I'm not necessarily talking about, you know, under Hans-Postel Kogler in the Premier League, because you haven't done that, but just within the Premier League, the demands of that competition, the number of fixtures, and if you were asked to change to a more aggressive, more front style of play, that can't be done overnight, can it?

I mean, the challenges must be huge for sports science departments and medical departments and physios. So, listen, we know the Premier League is the most dynamic league in the world. It has got 20 teams of all the same level, physicality, whether that's height, build, speed, power, agility. It's the best league in the world for that. Obviously, for example, with Mauricio Pochettino,

the team that he'd inherited was, again, quite a counter-attack team from Andre Villas-Boas. It was a bit more on the break, whereas Mauricio brought in a front foot football. But to get that style, that probably took six months to 12 months to, one, get the players that were available for that, that they could train, because the training, they would train five days a week.

There was lots of gym sessions that were football specific. The training, the volume, the intensity was through the roof. And again, it's a survival of the fittest for players. You need to be young, you need to be healthy. You need to have a certain physicality about you and mentality that you can actually get through that. And then the players survive.

So you've seen Mauricio's team for five, six years top fitness levels every year in the top three for distance covered high speed running

but also playing an aggressive style of football I think to get that in the Premier League you do have to train quite extensively for it but you need the right tools by that

I think you need the right players they need to be robust enough and I don't know at the moment at Tottenham if they've got these players, they need to be robust enough and I don't know at the moment at Tottenham if they've got these players because they've got a

very young squad behind the senior squad as well. Sorry I was just going to ask you a little bit away from sports science was a little bit about Anz himself, how is he dealing with the pressure, you've probably seen it at Celtic and what have you, because has he got someone to lean on or does he trust people around him, that inner circle that you've been involved in

because these managers are under severe pressure and if you want to give him the best and if you lose like Tottenham at the minute there he's the worst manager

in the world he hasn't got a clue type thing is there someone that supports him in that front as well? What's really interesting about Ang is

everybody that works with him realises this is a very strong leader very strong manager and I don't mean it in a critical way as in he's his own guy. He's like Sir Alex Ferry's type mentality.

This is how I do it. This is how I work. He doesn't have a network of staff where, for example, Martin O'Neill would have had his two trusted lieutenants. He is his guy. He will speak to maybe people outside the club, friends or whatever, but he is the manager. He is the boss.

He will make the decisions he will speak to staff Matt Wells Ryan Mason he will discuss tactics but he is I think if you look

at his career from Australia Japan he is not every club that he's been to he does produce but again

it's never an easy ride so he will always say look this is going to happen he will predict that there's going to be real rough patches in it. And I think he's got the resiliency and understanding to experience to overcome these things.

He's a very relentless and persevering manager, very strong mentally, probably one of the best I've worked with. So again, he's not going to worry about the outside noise. He will take it in, but he's not going to worry. He is focused on how do I win? How do we play in our style, in our way of doing it? He will be focused on that in one way only. Anton, you mentioned AI

a little bit earlier. Is that going to be used more and more within your sphere? Mark's worried about the presenting job. He's thinking about AI presenters. He's just checking how far down the road we are. Then we'll have AI pundits before we go AI presenters.

But we'll see. Yeah, I think it's one of these things. It's probably for the last decade, a lot of companies developing AI to predict injuries, to predict performance measures. I think it was key at Celtic. So for example, the company that was used at Celtic, the old firm had it at the same time.

So again, it's how you use the system there is clubs throughout Europe who are using it and using other systems at the end of the day how we described it was it was like having a member of staff who would be locked in an office doing all the work and then coming to you with information

it's how you deal with the information how you process it, again it's not going to change the practices how you train, how you deal with the information how you process it again it's not going to change the practices how you train how you deliver stuff but it gives you extra information and saves time so I think it's definitely a strong thing that we used at Celtic I think it gave us insights to how we train so for example if we'd not done enough so sometimes it's all about oh we've done too much as a team of training. Sometimes we've done too little.

So it was indicating players who weren't maybe playing, not doing enough work. Then in the other hand, if you do something random in your training week, you know, the manager wants to do a tournament football on the Tuesday, you've not done it in four or five weeks. Something random in the training schedule could increase some of these chances of injury because it was something that just pushed them over but again it's it's

how you use it is the key thing i was going to say how do i don't know much about personalization of training regimes because obviously we we've talked a lot about kind of implementing an ideology getting a manager who trying to trying to get their vision into the training kind of plan, how much does that have to be personalised for players by position? And how much is it then personalised again for players, given their own injury histories, their own injury backgrounds? So within the whole sports line, so whether it's pre-season, the players will always get screened individually. So we know their individual scores, their different injury history,

because the biggest predictor of injury is your last injury. So, for example, at Tottenham, there's going to be a lot of hamstring players now that have to be protected in the future. The individual part is obviously pre-training, post-training. Every player would have their own programme. Again, it's individual to the player. So pre-pre-training within the training group every day for the preparation so you can get on the ball, on the pitch straight away.

We would have different groups, so it would be hamstring, knee group, groin, shoulder, all the different groups. Because again, you might have six players who have hamstring injuries. So again, within the pre-training work, you would have separate groups for that to work on their needs. But also what are you training for that day and what are you recovering from? So again, you need to take into consideration all the different areas within the training and the team aspect. If you've got players returning from injury, you would speak to the assistant

manager. That player might need to go in as a neutral player. He might not have done enough work in rehab, so we need to be mindful this week or maybe finishing. So again, you need to speak to the coaches. Again, it's about clear communication with what's required for that player. You might have a player like a Dijs Amida at Celtic

who is extremely fit, could cope with a lot. So again, you need to allow them to do a little bit more rather than less. When it comes to training, the individual part will always take care of itself in the session because the players will be playing in position. So their positional needs will actually get catered for. But, for example, centre-halves, they might not have done enough

work in the session. So, again, in the extras at the end, with the live GPS, you can actually say, look, they need to do a little bit more. Again, it might be with the coaching staff, it might be with the physical staff, but you're always looking at what the players need individually and collectively for the given day during the week. Just going to ask you about match data.

A lot has been made about Tottenham's injuries, and I think I reeled off a stat the other week on the Monday night club. I think something like their sprint intensity, they were doing 50% more in every game than I think

it was Arsenal, for example. Do you, I mean, is it just natural that if that's the case, then it is going to take its toll and there are going to be more injuries? And in your role, how do you manage that? I think one of the key things is if you look at the evolution at Celtic, I think when I came into the job at Celtic in September, we had a three-month period of sustaining injuries every week and it was mostly hamstring injuries. Again, that was down to the pre-season, maybe the players

didn't have enough work in their body to cope with it, the multiple games, the travel. So we had to get to the winter break to then actually get some training load into these players. So again, that was one of the key things of trying to do that. But then also, as the players adapted to the demands of the system, I think the game fluctuation changed. Rather than that constant basketball up and down the pitch, the team was able to control one half of the pitch more. So that then stopped the centre-backs having to run in behind as often.

So I think as the game model and philosophy settled, I think that then reduced things. Again, we could train more. We could actually get players on the pitch. There was more squad rotation. So Ange definitely, in the second part of the first season, could rotate the players more.

I think at the moment, that is the problem. He has not got the squad. They're young players. So for him to to get the the players recovering it's very tough I think one of the big differences being in Scotland they had a winter break so when it got to that midpoint they were able to reset whereas in England they don't have the winter break and having been there it's very demanding so that's

where you need a strong squad I don't think the squad that he's got is big enough physically strong enough to cope with it. So again, it's going to be survival of the fittest. Probably going to see 60-70% of the squad survive and he's going to have to buy players in like Van de Veen that they need cover for centre-halves. They've only got three fit centre-halves for the whole season, the start of the season.

So I think you need Celtic to have two good wingers, left and right, but physically good enough to cope whereas at Tottenham I don't know if they've got that same physicality I think the training would be good knowing the assistant manager

the level that they do but it depends on when they do their work how they do it because Andy's got his own way of training does that fit everybody does that fit the players

are they doing the wrong things in the wrong days that's something I won't know because I'm not there but there is you know when do you do your speed work when do you do the gym work I'm presuming they're doing the wrong things in the wrong days. That's something I won't know because I'm not there, but there is, you know, when do you do your speed work? When do you do the gym work? I'm presuming they're a top club with top staff,

but they have had a change in staff in the background in the past year as well. So I don't know how much that changes the things in the background, you know, that you get new staff coming in on top of all the other issues. So it can be very difficult, but you need to get over the hump. But at the moment, it's very tough for

them because of the young players that they're having to play. Thank you very much for coming on, honestly fascinating, really, really

appreciate it. What's next for you? Hey, listen, hopefully get a job at some point in the coming months whether with Gio or someone else.

Again, it's just a case of spending some time with the family at the moment because obviously they never came to Turkey and they enjoyed the lovely Scottish weather for the next few months. Thank you very much for that insight.

Really appreciate it, Anton. Much appreciated, guys. Have a nice evening. Thank you. Anton McElhorn, head of sports science at various clubs and an assistant manager as well. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Rory. Thank you, Shay. That's it. Next episode of the Football Daily will be Women's Football Week.