Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Arsenal turn to RAF & Palace keep punching

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Steve Crossman is with Chris Sutton, Steph Houghton and The Observer’s Rory Smith. They discuss Arsenal showing their mentality and credentials. Hear from Arne Slot ahead of Liverpool’s trip to Galatasaray, catch Wayne Rooney’s take on Manchester United, and Steph has her say on Sunderland’s strong start.02:30 Arsenal show their credentials? 09:45 Arne Slot ahead of Galatasaray 22:40 Can Crystal Palace do a Leicester? 30:15 Will Glasner stay or go? 35:50 Wayne Rooney weighs in on Man Utd 46:55 Shout out to Sunderland5 Live / BBC Sounds UEFA Champions League commentaries: Tue 30 Sep 2000 Galatasaray v Liverpool, Wed 1 Oct 1745 Union Saint-Gilloise v Newcastle on Sports Extra, Wed 1 Oct 2000 Monaco v Man City.

This is the Monday Nightclub with Steve Crosman on the Football Daily podcast. Welcome to the Monday Nightclub. We've got Stephaught and we've got Rory Smith and we've got Chris Sutton. Good evening, everybody. Evening. I'll tell you what I've learned today, Chris, about Mikhail Artetta, because Arsenal are going to be one of our talking points on the Monday night club.

He's getting the RAF in to help with communication, which made me think how did the S-A-S-A-S? communicate to the fullest extent. Yeah, I mean, which SAS are you talking about, though? The one that you know about, Chris. The one... Well, you don't know how many SASs I do know about, Steve. I may surprise you.

Do you know what SAS stands for? Sutton and Shira, as far as I'm concerned. There you go. Well, the theory is, Chris, that the R-A-F communicate in only one or two words because they don't have time for full sentences. So is that how you got the best answer? of each other? Yeah, I think so, yeah, normally Alan would swear for me to pass quicker to him. That was the way it worked, really.

So maybe it's a similar thing, yeah. You must have had, Steph, whether this be with Manchester City or England, the old somebody comes in from a different walk of life to give you a seminar on something like this. It was more than a seminar, and it was before the 2019. World Cup and we're at St. George's Park on a training camp and they come in and talking about communication, how you can be effective and then all of a sudden it was like, right, okay, you've got 20 minutes to say goodbye to your loved ones. I was thinking, where had they taken us? And it was like 24 hours and yet I just dropped your phone and literally it took you and we camped out at St. George's

Park for the night, which wasn't the greatest. I'm sure a few of the girls went back to the Hilton Hotel in the middle of the night. But yeah, it was all about teamwork and trying to get together. Steph, who were the people who forced you to leave St George's parking down into the woods, and had they been commissioned by the FA? I hope so, you know, Rory, I'm a bit scared now thinking back, but at the time you just do it because of an army clothes, so yeah. Say goodbye to your loved ones.

Feels a bit like a threat, though, doesn't it? I was a bit scared, I'm not going to lie, guys. It was a bit intimidating. To be clear, Rory, in journalism, nobody has ever said that to me. I don't know if you've... Say goodbye to your loved ones. No, it's not something that comes up in interviews very often. Don't often hear that in a press conference.

Oh, I don't think so. Right, Arsenal narrowed the gap on Liverpool at the top of the table with a dramatic late winner against Newcastle at St James's Park. Let's jump in on that then, Chris. I think had they not done that, the narrative today would very much have been, I'll tell you what, Mikhail Arteta's Arsenal, they're still lacking something. Well, yeah, I mean, we had this debate last week surrounding Arsenal and Mikhail Arteta's negativity, if you want to call it,

in terms of when they face other big teams. You know, Liverpool this season. He went with the Marino, Zubimendi and Rice Midfield, same against Manchester City. I think that's a stick, which is fair enough to beat Mikhail Artetta

with, you know, Newcastle. I love watching Newcastle Arsenal games. There's a real rivalry there and that needle there. But it was more positive. And maybe that's a lesson. He played Ezra from the start. And in fairness, Arsenal deserved to win the game.

They were by far the better team. Had it not been for Nick Pope, who was, you know, absolutely phenomenal, then Newcastle would have been beaten by more. But, yeah, maybe that's a lesson further down the line. I don't think that anybody has ever doubted sort of necessarily the players' mentality and the players fight and the players' desire. I think they've got that they've got that in spades. And then, you know, you look at the Arsenal bench and the players they had on the bench

and that ability to bring subs on who can change the game. I mean, they're still formidable. But I think it'll be, you know, one to watch when, you know, when Arsenal play, the teams we regard as their rivals in future games, whether Mikhail Artetta is as negative as he has been in the past.

It was interesting, though, because obviously you put Ez-A in that number 10 and it kind of meant that Declan Rice had to sit a little bit deeper, but I think in times when Newcastle broke, Declan Rice was the one that was picking bits up, he was tracking back, and actually from that point of view,

allowed Arsenal to stay in the game and then moments that in Newcastle want to do, but I do agree with Chris. I think for me, Arsenal's squad depth is a lot different to last season, even like the likes of taking Sackeroff. That would never have been known last season when it gets to 90 plus five minutes.

He would be on the pitch and he wasn't, and you're bringing the likes of Odegaard on. I know that you probably would start, but he's come from injury and I think for me that's the biggest change this season for Artetta is how he uses that bench

at crucial moments. Not quibbling with what Chris said at all but is playing Eze as a 10 any more adventurous than playing O'Dard as a 10 which presumably he would have done had O'Dard been fully fit? Well, but in the game

against Liverpool this season of the game against Manchester City he's gone with three more robust players in the middle and that's the difference and that's something which has happened in previous seasons hasn't he, you know, he's gone with that

an attack-minded midfielder and sort of tried to, I don't know, it must be just trying to stay in games and try not to get beat. And maybe, you know, the fact that Arsenal, you know, last season it was, I think, 10 points to Liverpool, but previous seasons to that, they were pretty close to Manchester City.

And they're the, you know, fine margins really between, or they can be, between winning a title and losing a title. So maybe now that Newcastle game and that mindset, I know Steve said they're getting the RAF in, as well to sort of help out with things, but that mindset now of Mikhail Artaeta

where he was, you know, feeling maybe, well, I need to be a bit more cautious before. Now he might feel, well, you know, we're better off being a bit more positive and playing that extra attacker in the middle. I've always thought that the reason those Newtasel Arsenal Arsenal games are so much fun is because Newtassel are the least bulliable team

in the Premier League. and I see that very much as a compliment that Artetta's Arsenal are they are big and they're physical and they're tough and they will try and push teams around that he's built them deliberately to do that and it's been incredibly successful but you can't really do that against Newcastle

because you know Jilinton and Buna de Mareche are not really up you know they are up for a fight if you want a fight they'll give you a fight and I wonder if he put Eze in there does he realised kind of correctly in the end although obviously the winning doll was a set piece but you need a little bit of craft in that situation you need someone who can unpick a defence

whereas against Liverpool and City maybe he looks at it and thinks actually we've got a massive physical edge here so we might as well exploit that and of course when you go to send James's Park it's obviously a tough tough place to go I mean saying that as a Sullen fan and kills us a little bit but at the same time obviously team struggle you see Liverpool obviously win it in the last minute

at St James's Park Arsenal have done it again so teams have to really abstain it And I just think that ESA kind of in that 10, I think Artetta's maybe thinking he can be a little bit risky, but also because he has great defenders. So actually leaving them 1V1 at the back, you're allowed to because you've got the likes of Gabrielle. He brought Sileber on in the second half,

and they are unbelievable both pace-wise, but also from that physicality against any striker in the Premier League. So I think maybe that something might have dropped in the sense of actually they can be a bit braver when they go to these types of teams. Chris, on what you were saying before about Artetta's approach when it comes to those big games against their big rivals, it's obviously unlikely that Newcastle are going to be a title rival for Arsenal. But is that win yesterday as bigger watershed moment as if they had been

because of how difficult it is to go there, because of the physicality that Rory was talking about? I think so. I mean, look, there are plenty of teams you look at in the Premier League and think, you know, they're going to be tough games. I think you know the way that Eddie Howe sets up. And even the recent rivalry between the two clubs, you know, there is that extra edge. So, you know, he would have realized how big a game, you know, it was for Arsenal and how it would be viewed if Newcastle got the better of Arsenal and that sort of narrative, which because, you know, they came up short against. Liverpool, got away with it against Manchester City, you know, that narrative would have would

have carried on that, you know, Arsenal aren't sort of positive enough, but go, I think, I think there's, you know, it is, I mean, he's been there a long time now, Mikhail Artaicester, he's coach for a long time, he's managed for a long time. But, you know, he can still learn. And I think that that's, you know, that's a, that's a real positive thing for him and, you know, as Arsenal manager to feel that, you know, he can have that trust in his players to be a little bit more positive. And Ezza, he's not, he's not daft anyway. He'll still put a shift in defensively. He can handle himself physically. It's just in big, you know, in games which are tight, you need that little bit of something different, that craft and that guile and that ability to beat the man

or go or get shots off. And that's what, you know, Ezra does virtually better than anybody else in the Premier League. Yeah, we'll talk about Ez's old club Crystal Palace shortly. Let's do Liverpool first because they had their first defeat of the season at Selhurst on Saturday obviously. Arna Slott's been speaking ahead of their next game which is at Galatasaraya on Tuesday night so let's hear from him speaking to Ian Dennis. I know you've changed

your fullbacks from last season but at the start of last season you kept six clean sheets in your first 10 games so far you've kept two clean sheets in your first nine games how would you analyse your defence this season? No I almost like that you asked me this question because for me

defending is only a small margin defenders. So I think one of our strengths was that we kept the other team away from our goal a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot. And that normally doesn't start with your defenders, that starts somewhere else. And if you then just look in it more detailed, we've conceded four goals from set pieces. So it's always been a team performance last season,

performance last season, I said this many times. The reason why we hardly concede is that 11 players work incredibly hard to make it difficult for the other team to even create a chance. And that's what we've done this season many times as well, but you can work as hard as you want, but a set piece is almost a different game inside the game. And that was, by the way, that would have been maybe even better question. That was one of our main strength last season that we hardly conceded from set pieces. So we have to go back to that. We definitely have to improve

because I also see teams in the Premier League that win games by set pieces and we lose games because of set pieces. Anaslot. Right, let's discuss his treatment of his own players. Okay, because there's a couple of really interesting things that have happened over the course of the last few days. The first one, Rory, is that with these press,

conferences in Europe. For those that don't know, it's different to in the Premier League whereby you will almost always have both the manager and a player and the club obviously can decide who they want to put there. It was Hugo Ekateke. And Ekateke was obviously asked about taking his shirt off and getting the second yellow card and getting sent off and he said, understatement of the year, I think that wasn't smart. I felt a bit disappointed having to watch the boys from home. I've apologised to everybody already. That kind of thing won't happen again. I bet that he was put there. so that he would be the one answering those questions,

if you see what I mean. Yeah, because Slot, again, quite rightly, said that getting sent off for taking your shirt off in celebrating a winner in a Carabar Cup game and it's a championship team is stupid. And I don't know, my,

traditionally I suppose whenever a manager says anything that's critical of a player, we being like the media and fans, tend to assume that that's a potential kind of flashpoint, that the player might not like it, that their Edo might not be able to take it, but it's in some way disrespectful. I kind of think... Depends what the criticism is, doesn't it?

Well, Chris, as you know, like, I generally have... I mean, we've been doing this show together for a long, long time now. So now, in most instances in my life, I kind of have your voice in my head guiding me through it, like some sort of mentor.

And I always think... That's a worry. You're not wrong. Have you got Chappas on the other shoulder? No, I never listen to him. He's very good on the golf, though, chappas. No, I think that you've always said that as long as the manager is consistent

in what they're saying, public and in private, the players will take it. And I think that is true of slot. I think he's Dutch. This is what the Dutch do. They tell you the truth. They don't mince their words. And I think most of the time

when he calls a player out publicly, he's probably done the same in private. And also, it's quite hard to disagree with him. I mean, what he said about EKTK is not wrong. It was a stupid thing to do. And, I mean, I don't know whether it cost his team or not. I'm sure Liverpool would have been perfectly capable of being awful in the first half with Hugo Etatiti on the pitch.

But I don't think Slot has done it has misstepped there. It says to me that he's pretty confident in his position and his relationship with his players, I think. I would echo that, to be honest. I think what you mentioned, well, Chris mentioned about consistency. I think that's massive when you're a part of a team. I think there's two instances in terms of Eckertique here, but also Fringpong this weekend.

and I think the main thing is the facts and the whole everybody's seen it I think everybody knew that he was wrong to take his shirt off there was it was wrong to try and attack counter attack when you're defending a free kick or a long throw and that's caused a goal that's costing the game so I like the fact that he's quite up front and he's just really honest

and I think that as a player going through that I think then it just gets put to bed I think there's no like kind of you don't know what he wants what he thinks of yeah I think it's just out there and sometimes yeah you do probably have a bit more conversations in private

but I think because it's so spoken about and it's quite a big deal and it's Liverpool Football Club of course we're going to be speaking about it on here and so is everybody else I'm not sure he's having Frimpong on a slot you know at the weekend I was at the game

Crystal Palace and Crystal Palace let's get it right they thoroughly deserve to beat Liverpool they were they were really direct in the way that they played balls in behind and Liverpool just couldn't come. But the reason I say that is in the second half, he made substitutions.

And he put Zobber's Lai to write back. He took Bradley off, Zobber's Lai to write back, and Frimpong stayed on the bench. He eventually did come on and, you know, and was part of that, you know, his poor defending. It was amazing, and that's probably why he's not having him, because that was an amazing decision from Frimpong in that moment to actually,

to actually even have in his mind to start moving forward when his job as a right back is to essentially defend and, you know, he left in Kettia alone and the finish was brilliant, but that was down to him. So, you know, when you think that Liverpool have changed fullbacks from last season, and even Kirk has off the left-hand side,

I do feel that they're a work in progress. They don't have that same balance and maybe they were never going to have that same balance from the left because of Andy Robertson's quality and in our memory over the last several many years he's played for Liverpool. You know, he's been phenomenal on the board and Kirk has isn't quite a, well, nowhere near peak Robertson level and that's a bit of an issue.

And Liverpool has got a bit of a problem at the back because Canate has had a dreadful start of the season and he is all over the shop. they've got issues at right back left back's not quite sort of found his form and they've got Van Dyke and then they've only got one covering centre half and that's

Joe Gomez. So that's a real issue for Liverpool and I think being fair and most Liverpool fans would sort of hold the hands up to this they haven't started the season brilliantly in terms of performances they've had games where they've got a lot of

late goals and we would all say well it's a great thing when you're not playing well but you're finding a way to win games. And of course it is. But I can never remember a Liverpool team in recent years getting a pummeling in the first half as they did at Selhurst Park. If it wasn't for Allison, the truth is

it could have been four or five. And that is not an exaggeration. And it was, I'm not, this isn't, I'm not doing sort of Oliver Glastner of this service. It was pretty basic football in terms of the way that they played balls in behind. and Liverpool just couldn't cope. I was going to say I'm pretty sure

that Alison kept them in for most of that game. I think the saves that he made is why he's been such a top keeper. But Chris, it's quite interesting you say about Frimpon because obviously he's a really, really attack-minded player. He played wingback before he moved to Liverpool so his job is just to try and get up and support the forwards as much as possible. And obviously at Liverpool,

and especially in the Premier League, against the Crystal Palace side, I think that risk was too risky to make. But also I think it does link in to kind of, I think if you put Frimpong on when Canarty is not playing as well as we probably used to seeing them play, I think then they would have leaked a little bit more goals,

so I think that's probably why you trust Sobisly to go in there and actually support and just be that little bit of extra pair of legs around Canarty. Yeah, I watched it, I was at Ellen Road on Saturday afternoon, and I obviously didn't see the game, can't watch football illegally in this country, and obviously

saw the highlights on the match of the day. You didn't have to, you didn't have to sort of own up to that. I want to make it clear that I was not watching football illegally, Chris. That's very important. Well, you said it twice now. It sounds like you're guilty. Now, I watched the highlights on much today,

and I'd seen, obviously, following up on the BBC Live blog, and you see a lot of the reaction on social media and stuff. And I was assuming it was, like you say, Steve, like a continuation of what has been a pattern for Liverpool this season, which is they have had spells in every game

where they suddenly look wide open. And it was true against Bournemouth on the first day of the season. It was true against Athletica and Madrid. It was true to 10 in the Merseyside Derby last weekend that it just sort of they sort of grind to a hold and all the constituent parts of the team just aren't kind of linking up together

but watching the highlights and I'm assuming that that is a fair sort of depiction of the game what really struck me was how many of Palis's chances came from quite basic Liverpool mistakes that there is a point at which whatever is wrong with your system and whatever and that's quite right about the balance of the side

with attacking full backs and stuff but like whatever whatever you're trying to do like if your centre half keeps giving the opposition and strike of the ball, then they're probably going to make quite a lot of chances. And there were at least two or three of those saves that Alison made that came from Liverpool just giving the ball away in really strange areas. And that, again, is something that's happened quite a lot over the course of the first, what, six weeks of the season, I think, that Liverpool just don't look.

They have spells wet collectively and individually. They don't really look on it. So in that case, Chris, is it, because what I was going to ask is, especially given it's not the only, you know, big victory that Palace have had over them, whether or not it was Palace exposing something about Liverpool that others haven't quite exposed, or if it is just a reflection of the fact that, as you said, Liverpool's other results haven't necessarily reflected performances. Is there anything that Palace did differently in your eyes, which will be a nice kind of link on to getting onto them and how good they've been? They are just a superbly organized team

And, you know, I think it's fascinating the way I'm not saying football is going back in time Like with the set plays, with the long throws And the direct style of football But Pallas, you know, Henderson at the back early on Just everything, direct into Metetta Knockdown Flicks And they are superbly organized in terms of second balls

In terms of the way that he's organized them at the back, switches a play. The amount of times in that particular game, he saw Mitchell, the left wing back of Pallas, finding Munoz, the right wing back of Pallas in at the Far Post. I mean, it's, you know, it's absolutely amazing. And they just, they just exploited Liverpool defensively. I think the stuff about Canada, which already said,

is making mistake after mistake. And it's been, you know, that's where he's been consistent at the start of this season. You know, I think he's been a brilliant player for Liverpool, but this season he has been miles off it and he had a particularly poor game and he couldn't handle Metetta kept getting too tight Metetta kept winning free kicks and flicks

and what have you and there was plenty of brainless defending in there from Canada and that's a concern but Liverpool has still had a good start of the season but you feel that there's so much more to come but defensively they don't seem to be anywhere near the level which I think Arna Slotwood would like. Welcome to the team behind the team,

a new podcast series in partnership with the Open University, where we'll be showcasing the people, the tools and the techniques to help athletes and teams reach elite level. Like all elite sports, it's a pyramid and everybody's trying to get to the top. It's not just my vision. It's a shared vision amongst the team. What is this? This is not the way I see the game.

The team behind the team. Katie Smith. In partnership with the Open University. Listen, on BBC Sounds. This is the Monday nightclub with Steve Crosman. On the Football Daily podcast. You can email us, MNC at BBC.com.com. We've had an email all the way from Nova Scotia.

It's in Canada. I've been to Nova Scotia. Have you? Yeah, Halifax Nova Scotia. It's lovely. Lots of good fish. Why did you go there? Were you sent there? Were you shipped there? Why was I sent there?

Well, it's for my hit podcast, The Hurricane Tapes, available on BBC Sounds, Chris. Oh, it's a good podcast now. That's what it's for. Thank you for asking, Chris. You've helped me out. And if you want to listen to Chris demolish me at Sutton Death, then what podcast might people go and listen to, Chris? It's that new named one, the FPL podcast. BBC? I think BBC's in there as well, isn't it? BBC, BBC, FPL, podcast, fantasy football. Maybe you should try it, Rory.

Too many acronyms there, Chris, can't be bothered. Maybe improve your life, that would, Rory, fantasy football. I don't think it would. I mean, I'm not getting into this now, Chris, it's not relevant, but I don't think it would. Do you want to hear from Joe in Nova Scotia? Yes. Right. Joe says, with a few clubs not hitting their full stride,

e.g. Chelsea Spurs, City, Manchester United, and two title rivals also stuttering are conditions fertile for Crystal Pallas for Crystal Pallis. to replicate Lester in 2016. Joe does continue. Admittedly, it does feel early to call it. Yeah, a little bit early. It is a little early, Joe, isn't it? I would think so, yeah.

No reason why not, though, if they keep everyone fit, but probably going to lose a certain marquee in the transfer window, though, aren't there? Is there no reason why not, or are there quite a few reasons? That's what Steph says is the biggest reason. Their squad is just,

too thin. You look at their first 11 and they are superb. They are so well organized. The back, three, Riches, Laquire and Gahey. I love the way Pallas said that they're not selling Gahey. Did the right thing. Couldn't replace him

in time. So, you know, kept in there. The wingbacks are absolutely crucial. Wharton and Commander in the middle of the park. We're good. Meteta up front. They miss Ezra. No doubt about that. As any any team would miss Ezra, they played Pino, where Ezra played who actually missed a few chances in the last few games

and they've got Ismail Lassar who his numbers have been exceptional just want to just touch on an interview which I saw with Oliver Glastner because there's a lot of talk around systems and what have you and the 3-4-3 and what have you but Oliver Glastner in an interview I saw said there's too much onus on systems

it's about habits and he was talking about his system Rory may well know his favorite system actually is 4-4-2 but he goes in he assesses the players which he has at the particular clubs which he's he's been at and it's about getting the best out of that group and that's that's what he's done and they are they are so good at what they do and you know we can talk about them finishing high up in the table i think they may well do if they keep everybody fit and they keep gay at the club in

january if that's possible but you know that that's where they lack but if you compare them say to say to manchester united a lot of talk about reuben amram and and and his system at this moment in time, how many Manchester United players honestly would get into that Crystal Palace team? Oh, that's a great question. Well, on form, the answer is obviously none, isn't it? But equally, Bruno Fernandez would clearly get into the Crystal Palace team. Cunia, maybe. Yeah, Cunia. And Bermot. But where would you, where would you play Bruno Fernes in that palace system? One of the two tens. The way that you, well. The other thing that's interesting is kind of what we mean by system, though, isn't it? Does we

tend to equate it with formation, but formation's to an extent, like a thing that people who aren't, like, it's a way that we interpret what's happening on the pitch. It doesn't really reflect what's actually going on. Like the amount of time that anyone spends standing in like a three, four, two, one is probably about, is kickoffs. That's basically it. I think Glasner does have systems for the way they play in terms of how they're pressed. They'll have set triggers. They'll have things that he does that are his hallmarks that he's done at. at Wolfsburg and at Antwerp, Frankfurt, and now at Palace. But what's amazing is how, like, well-drilled into the players they are,

how quickly he managed that, and how he's been able to do it consistently, despite the fact that Palace do have to deal with, you know, the fact that their players change. They can't kind of send the same team out or just build on kind of what they have. They have to kind of trade a little bit. So obviously you lose Alisei last summer, then Eze this summer. You come really close to losing Mark Gehie down to,

like a spin class is what keeps Mark Gay at Crystal Palace. And Glasner doesn't seem to bat an eyelid. And I think that is a really modern way of managing that he accepts that kind of stuff changes around him. Sometimes the circumstances are challenging. Sometimes he has to put his foot down and say that they're not to sell their captain. But it doesn't kind of detract from the work he does. And the fact that they're 18 unbeaten is genuinely astonishing. The fact that they are, I think they're third, aren't they now?

Because Arsenal and second on Sunday. the fact that they're third after the summer they had is extraordinary. I mean, it's hard to stress what a brilliant job he's done. I mean, I'm not presenting this show, but if you're Jason Wilcox

at Manchester United, if you're Jim Rackcliffe, and you're seeing what Oliver Glastner has said about it not being about systems, about players, that's pretty damning on all the talk around Ruben Amram.

isn't it, that Glastner is saying that and his team are playing 3-4-3. They haven't spent, however many millions that Manchester United have spent and yet he is getting this team to be so functional, so well-drilled and Manchester United are so far off it. That's the biggest thing that stands out for me.

I think Chris is right in the sense of no matter what system you play, ultimately as a play, you've got to really buy in and you've got to be like, right, okay, I'm playing for this club and I'm going to work as hard as I possibly can and we're all going to go together

and you see at times like Palace no matter what scenario Liverpool try to give them they had a solution but that was more because of the work ethic as well like everybody was wanting to sprint to the ball they were wanting to press but when they had the ball

they were actually really really brave and going forward and playing what the game kind of give them so I think for me like if you were man united I think you would look at Palace and go actually this system actually works for them but is it actually the players and obviously the manager being able to

able to get them all on board to be like, okay, this is how we're going to play. In this scenario, if their right back is going to have it, this is what we're going to do. And I think that's how Palace are fed off. But also, the confidence is a lot higher because of the 18 games unbeaten because it actually works. You watch at the weekend, you see, like Munez and Mitchell, they are so good at their timing of when to jump. How physical are there, Chris, though, as well? Yeah, absolutely. But then you've got the, you know, when Munoz does it, the right side of the center half,

He'll just shuffle across and fill that gap and Laquois gets across, Gahey gets across and Mitchell tucks in. They are so well drilled and so well organised. And honestly, if you're a Manchester United fan, you know, you want to see 3-4-3 played well. Just watch Crystal Palace. Okay, so we're going to jump into Man United

and hear from Wayne Rooney in a second. So just to wrap things up specifically on Palace, I do wonder whether actually if they're going to have a problem this season. It is more around Glasner than squad depth. And the reason I say that is his contracts up at the end of next summer. And there is a scenario Chris whereby, you know, Steve Parrish has obviously

decided he would rather try and keep Oliver Glasner happy and forego £36 million, which is what he was about to get for Mark Gay. It's entirely possible in the summer that what might happen is that Gay will go on a free transfer and so will Oliver Glasner, because his contract will be up. So that is a pressing issue for them, there's no doubt. It is. And if you're Oliver Glasner with, I don't like saying it,

but with respect to Crystal Palace, he will have a shelf life there. He can only take them so far in many respects. We've spoken about their lack of squad depth. I do think that that's an issue. You know, I know if something happened to Mattetti, you'll say, well, they've got Enquettea, but not the same type of play. he's so important to that team.

If anything happened to two of the three centrebacks or, you know, the wingbacks, then, you know, that sort of changes the dynamic in the team. So I think that he has, you know, is phenomenal what he's achieved there, the way that they're playing. But, you know, eventually, eventually they will start dipping again. And he has to get out at the right time. And I am absolutely positive that there will be a lot of big clubs out there thinking, you know, he's got to be our next.

manager. What a bleat worldview. Well, there is a great quote from Glasner, who was speaking to basically the Austrian version of Kicker, the magazine. And he was asked about rumours linking him to Manchester United. Now, there's an obvious answer that you give there, isn't there? You go, listen, I'm not interested in talking about other clubs. I'm focused on my job at Crystal Palace.

That's not what he said. What he said was, yeah, I've seen the rumours. I follow all the rumours. But that's all there is. neutrally and completely relaxed, focusing on the daily work, trying to enjoy it as much as possible. Look, I do like Rory the way he talks, I have to say.

I think, you know, it's very honest. He was like that even the other month when he was asked about recruitment when it wasn't happening as well. He's going to be very popular. He already is very popular. And it would be objectively hilarious if having threatened to quit to keep Mark Gaye there,

Glasner just left in the middle of the season. That would be deeply very funny on, again, quite a dark Chris level. What a Blake World hero. I know, but do you know, I'm a little bit more positive, Steve. I think Glasner probably looks at Palace and thinks of it as quite a good place to be. I think the squad depth is absolutely an issue. And the big challenge I'll have this season in terms of maintaining performance is what happens when Europe properly kicks in and you're playing twice a week.

I don't think they've got the depth to cope with that. and they'll want to take Europe seriously because it's their first time in Europe. But Glasgow will look and think that it's a well-run club that they have a clear identity. He's got a lot of power there. He can shape it kind of as he wishes. If a really attractive major job came up

either in England or Bayern Munich or something, maybe he'd be tempted. But I think it would have to be pretty special to make him leave. I'm not sure he could be convinced, for example, just to go to Manchester United because it's Manchester United. I think he probably realizes he's in quite a good spot. You're in cloud cuckoo land.

You really are sometimes. It's a positive person, Chris. Which bit is he in cloud cuckoo land about that he wouldn't go to Man United if it came up? Right. Because put yourself in his shoes, his journey, what he's achieved at Palace in a short space of time, the realization that, you know, you have to be, you've got to be realistic. I know, believe it will. They can only go so far. So what do you do?

you strike while the iron's hot and when opportunities come along and they will come along because of the way just based on watching Palace weekend and week out and what we've seen over the last period under Oliver Glasler that's why the opportunities will come along

is our Manchester United a better club than Crystal Palace right now absolutely not they're miles behind but historically they're a massive club and he would probably back himself as the guy who can go and actually turn things right and the brilliant thing about the Manchester United

job is anybody taking it on from Ruben Amarim, I mean, you know, they're starting near the bottom, so the only way is up. I agree with all of that, Steve, but just to get my rebuttal in. I think if Arsenal or Liverpool or Man City came to him, or

even Tottenham came to him, I think it would be slightly different. I think for the two traditional bid six jobs that might come up, United and Chelsea, I think a lot of managers will have reservations about them at the moment. I think they will look at them at the moment. I think they will look at them and think, yes, they can pay a lot of money, give you access to high, you know,

maybe a high quality of player or whatever, and maybe I'll be the person, you know, they all, you know, everyone thinks they'll be the one to change them. But at the same time, I think that most managers would be thinking, huh, this looks like a tricky sort of situation to be in. And, you know, maybe Glasner would go for it if it was offered to him, I don't know. But I think, I don't think he'd do it lightly. I think it would have to be the right opportunity. Well, he could join a long list of managers who have really enjoyed themselves having succeeded at other clubs and gone to Manchester United like Eric Tenhag and Ruben Amarim and David Moyes

and the list goes on. They had a great time. Let's talk Manchester United, shall we? We've beaten 3-1 by Brentford. Their third league defeat of the season already, Wayne Rooney has said the soul has gone from the club and he's got no faith in Amarim to turn things around. Here he is. What has gone up, Man United?

This is not Man United. I don't recognise the whole football club. I don't see players fighting. see character, don't see desire to win, I don't see ability,

don't see match winners, not and get to me off my feet, I go into a game watching, expecting, okay, here we go again,

expecting the team to lose it or maybe pick up point. This is not Man United. But you know what? That's so important that you say that.

Nowadays, I don't even get surprised when we lose and it's just more like you start just shrugging your shoulders and go, yeah, we've lost the case.

But I was debating before I come on this. all day I've been debating this to say this shall I say because I know it's going to bring pressure and it's going to go into the media and it's going to get picked up and the manager is going to get asked questions about it

but I feel I need to I care for the club I was at the football club for 13 years and what is going on is not right and this is not all in the manager by the way I'm seeing players they're not deserving to wear that shirt and it hurts

when you've been in football club for that long and you care of the club this is not acceptable what is going on and are you really Mani and I haven't wanted back to back games for I don't know

how long Since January There needs to be I think there needs to be a clear message a clear message from the owners where that's the glazers

where that's there has to be a message of where this club is going that's Wayne Rooney from the Wayne Rooney show which you can hear on the BBC Sport YouTube channel and watch obviously

and on eye player it's on BBC Sounds episodes drop every Friday and Monday morning. Steph, I totally understand what Wayne Rooney is saying there when he says it's not Manchester United because it isn't his Manchester United but for a long time, that has been Manchester United for a long time. Yeah, I mean, for Wayne, he's been affiliated with the club for 13 years

and you know the club inside out. It's obviously hard when you've got that emotional attachment to a club, but I think what he's saying is right, I think he isn't really a clear identity. I think even the way that they're going into games in terms of a team I think you go to Brentford away and for me I think the biggest thing is that you've got to be able to earn the right to play the way that you want to play and sometimes you can't just walk into a game and expect to play this

343 system be all nice and you know that Brentford of they want to win points they want to win games and obviously they've got a new manager there's a lot of pressure on them to stay in the league this year because of obviously Thomas Frank leaving the good job that he did but ultimately for United it's just, I think that back-to-back win just kind of says it all. I think they get to a point where they look as though

they've kind of maybe got a little bit of momentum and then the next game it kind of goes two steps back and that's been the story of ever since that Amaran's been in and the managers previously, to be honest. Where I feel sorry for Reuben Ambrim and I do have sympathy with him is, I mean, you'll know this better than anyone, Steph. I mean, the first goal,

what on earth is Harry McGuong? doing. I mean, that's some of the most brainless defending, I think, I've ever seen. You can't take a risk and playoffside. You know, if there's 1% doubt, you have to drop, you have to go with the runner at the point. I think there's Jordan Henderson who played the long

ball. I mean... When have you ever seen Harry Maguire do that, though, Chris, for all the times, United or at England, in that moment he drops, doesn't he? No, no exactly. It's just, it's such a bad decision. That boss travelled, well, I think, 50, 60 yards.

And he's taken a risk in a situation where, you know, it had been in that situation hundreds and hundreds of times. And then the goalkeeping situation at Manchester United, I mean, that's Amram's fault. So, I mean, Bayynda, I don't care what anybody says. He should have saved the second one. He should have. So they bring Lamin's in because they've got issues with, you know,

Anana and Bayinda. And then Lamin's isn't picked. Is that another misjudgment from Manchester United? It sums up. It's a circus. They're just making up as they go along and then, you know, cobble a team out there

and players, you know, Harry McGuire, I've got a lot of admiration for him. But that's just an absolute shocker, brainless defending. And, you know, that doesn't help ammer him. No, and I think when I was thinking about what we were going to say about Manchester United because I feel all we do on this show is talk about United and when it's going to kind of change their look

and I'm thinking, okay, do you go from a logical point of view or do you go from like emotional, If you were supporting that club and you'd be so angry right now and frustrated because you do see that little bit of a glimpse of you bring in great players like Cunia, you're bringing in Bremor who's been unbelievable, had a great season of Brentford

but it's not clicking in your team and that goal actually Chris sums up where Man United are I think also McGuire I think he's playing in the middle of that back three you've got Luke Shaw who's a left back playing at the left-sided centre-half at the back probably out of his comfort zone in that sense. McGuire probably likes to be protected.

He's been left 1 v1, but also there's absolutely no pressure on the ball. So every time Brentford had a chance to play in behind in the space, they did it. And that from a system point of view is it's just functionally wrong. It doesn't give them any chance whatsoever. And I think in the Premier League, you need that little bit of luck. And when it's 2-1 and the penalty and it's not a sending off, I think sometimes you have to make your own look with the decisions that you are making. And it's not good viewing.

And I think when you do see in the play, players like Harry McGuire, who's been brilliant for England. He hasn't played as well as he has for England for Manchester United. But I don't think they're using his strengths as what they could do like they did at England previously. Well, what about Rory? I think Micah Richards did a piece of this on Match the Day. The fact that Amarim is doing so much changing of players' positions

within that system that he's so wedded to. So, for example, Mason Mount has played false knives, he's played in the double pivot he's played as a number 10 and he's played at left wingback for Manchester United under Amarim Masrawe has played 19 times at right wing back 20 times at right centre back

and has also played at left wing back that feels like a lot of dice rolling there and not much well not much feeling around the place that people know what they're going to be doing from one day to the next really tell you what to see there'll be people listening to that thinking false nine double pivot right wind back whatever the other one was yeah it's good that

football's thrown back to long ball getting rid of all this modern nonsense yeah i mean amram doesn't know how to make the system work that's obvious isn't it it's just without i don't understand dismissive but like his system doesn't suit the players so he's moving pieces around to try and make it work but it doesn't work so every time he does something different he might get a result i mean i was at altrafford when they played chelsea and it turns out man united are all right if the opposition and have their goal key percent off after five minutes. So in those circumstances, it all works pretty well. In other circumstances, less so.

But this is just what Manchester United, this is what Manchester United are. And I thought what Rooney said is really interesting because 12 years is quite a long time in football. So it's all very well, and you hear all of the time from ex-United players saying, well, this is Manchester United. This is Manchester United Football Club.

And they add the football club on to make it sound more serious, even though Manchester United took Football Club off their badge because they're not a football club anymore. I mean, it was 12 years ago. Like, I'm not being funny, but that's a substantial chunk of a team's history. It's more than a decade.

There'll be a fan, fans who are, I don't know, 23 who don't remember Manchester United being good. Yeah. Because it's been so long. And I've almost come full circle right now. I don't actually think there's any point sacking Amarim. Because if you sat Amarim, you just continue in the cycle. You almost have to say,

we are now in so deep we just have to stick with it because that is ultimately what we'll carry them through is saying this is our way of doing it we're going to build a team that suits this strange system that this very intelligent man

has decided is the only way he will play football who is he improved then so you'd keep a manager in then who is he improved has he improved the team are they going back no I mean what do you

what well there they are no he's not you would keep him in place then I would keep him in place unless they've got a really good idea of who they don't know a point instead, what players they're going to buy for him,

what kind of changes they're going to make to the hierarchy above him to make sure that it works, what player pathways they've got for the best players in the academy, what transfer targets they've got for this summer, next summer, and the summer after that, what agreements they have with those players' agents

to make sure that they will actually join you if you're not in the Champions League. Unless you have a full-on roadmap of what to do, then there's no, it's just, you don't have to pay X-Mex, million to pay off Amarim and his staff. You'll have to pay X million to hire a new manager.

You'll have to put another 250 million to head into the squad to change the squad so it suits the new manager. And then that won't work either because it's Manchester United. So even if they finish second, at some point, there will be pressure on the manager. There will come a moment when they have to stick with something. I agree with that. And you're saying that, you know, it's not just about Ruben Amarin. And I a million percent agree with that.

Okay. But is it at the stage now? where with every passing week and every passing performance, every passing defeat, which is most weeks, where he is just looking like he is so far out of his depth, he is talking as if he is so far out of his depth.

I think he has on several occasions come close to making me think he is daring them to sack it, which I'm sure he's not because everyone in football has... Because of his choice of words. Yeah, like everyone in football. I mean, Steph and Chris know this much better than I do. but as like a normal person who occasionally engages

with elite sports people. Me and Stefan normal. No, you're not. You're elite sports people. You're different to the rest of us. You're not like us normal mortals. You have different attitudes to life. You have like a level of self-belief

that me and Steve just can't match. Like we don't get close to that. No, but it's true. No, it is true. Everyone who's involved in sport at the level that Stefan, to an extent, Chris, have been involved with sport. They have a self-belief that is,

is way beyond what you would encounter in normal life. And Amarin will believe he will get it right. But just every so often he says something that makes me think, hmm, I think I, you do wonder if maybe he thinks, might be, you know, maybe it's time to call it quits here, but I'd rather they paid me out. And I mean, it's just a sense you get. I don't really prove for it.

But he's said a few things that you don't normally hear managers say. Right. We've got a maximum of three minutes left. And much as I've tried, unfortunately we are going to fit Sunderland's. into the Monday. Now, I'm joking, I'm joking. They won at Nottingham Forest.

It's their strongest start to a top flight season since 1967. 11 points from six games is the most of promoted side has got in 13 years. The last team to do it were West Ham, who ended that season in the top half. Steph Horton, you must be loving life. I am actually. I'm not going to lie. I'm buzzing. We've got to speak about Sunland on tonight, show, to be honest.

But they deserve it. I think, I know we spoke about Palace before. and Sunland going there and getting a point is like three points to Sunland being a promoted side and go to somewhere like that but to go to Forest and to win 1-0 and yeah of course that you're defending for the lives but I actually love the fact that they're loving that that they're actually accepting that maybe we're not going to be able to play

the football that we want to play away from home but we're going to actually make sure that we try and take three points back to the stadium alike and I think what Regis Labriz has done with the players that he's brought he's brought in quality, not a lot of Premier League experience apart from Granite Jacker who is playing unbelievable in that holding midfield row and he's kind of just anchoring that and he's getting his experience across the younger players

but in terms of just the energy and the fight and the aggression I think as a Southern fan it's been unbelievable I don't think anybody could have dreamt that the start that we've had and we've got Man United next at Old Trafford which will be a very interesting game but yeah ultimately I think what the club have done I think over the summer but also giving them the tools

to be able to go and build the team from the Premier League they've been super impressive How are you going to deal with the tag of favourites at Old Trafford? I've got to embrace it I think guys we have to do, don't we have to exude that confidence that Amaran shows

and I'm going to do that for the Sullen fans out there Yeah 15 signings as well It must be like you said This is beyond But you look at Robin Roof's in goal I think nobody would have ever heard of him But he's coming he's played He was played unbelievable again on Saturday

McLeary at the back he's just a brick wall in the sense of you'll just put his head on anything he's got so much and we've got energy in midfield as well I think Diyara's obviously injured at the moment but record signing

Zediki he's got legs in there which helps Jacker of course in terms of him letting him get on the ball but trying to support Isidore up front but I think for me what we've done so far has been really effective and I think in terms of starts I think in terms of the wins that we've had

we've been good at what we've done and hopefully a lot more to come. Yeah, brilliant start. Steph, Chris Rory, thank you all very much indeed. Great stuff. That's it from this episode of the Football Daily. On the next one, Kelly Cates, will be reacting to Tuesday night's five live commentary,

which is Galatasarai Liverpool in the Champions League. As ever, thank you so much for listening. He scored goals, lifted trophies and broken records along the way. There it is. It's a day to remember the Wayne Rooney. And now he's got a podcast. Welcome to the Wayne Rooney Show. Twice a week.

Wayne Rooney, Kay Curd and me, Kelly Somers, break down the biggest stories in the Premier League and beyond. As much as you'd like to say it, loyalty in football now is there's no existence, whether that's fun players or managers. Plus, we'll hear the funniest, wildest and most outrageous stories from Wayne's career. The Wayne Rooney show. Everybody's talking about it. Listen on BBC Sounds.