Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Arsenal’s wobble, the case for Carrick & are Liverpool “soft”?

Episode Date: January 26, 2026

All the reaction as top of the table Arsenal drop points to Manchester United at the Emirates. Chris Sutton, Steph Houghton and Rory Smith join Mark Chapman to discuss Sunday’s result in North London – are the nerves kicking in for Arsenal? And could Manchester United have a dilemma on their hands if Michael Carrick’s impressive start continues? They turn their attention to the south coast where Liverpool were beaten by Brighton – ending an unbeaten start to 2026. Have those results papered over the cracks of a “soft” Liverpool team? And they look back at the weekend’s VAR and handball controversy – were the rules applied correctly for Chelsea’s penalty at Crystal Palace?TIME CODES: 00:30 – Arsenal 2-3 Manchester United 34:35 – Liverpool 45:30 – VAR & Handball5 Live / BBC Sounds UEFA Champions League commentaries: Wed 2000 PSG v Newcastle, Wed 2000 Man City v Galatasaray on Sports Extra, Wed 2000 Napoli v Chelsea on Sports Extra 2.

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and that's at the Emirates, Arsenal 2, Manchester United 3, Arsenal with a four-point lead at the top of the table. We will start with them and then come on to Manchester United in a little while. I had an Arsenal fan this morning, Steph,

text me going, I haven't slept. And I'm thinking, your four points clear. Isn't that a bit of an overreaction? Yeah, I do feel as though it is, I think even the interviews that were done after the game, I think, yeah, of course, it's disappointing to lose at home and to have that unbeaten home record taking away by Manchester United. But as a neutral, it was a really, really good game

and to see two teams that really wanted to win it. But I do feel as though when Arsenal goal 1-0, they're very much in control of the game. But when United get that goal back, he can sense there's a bit of nervousness around the players, around the stadium, around the fans. and I think this is a bit of an unknown for Arsenal in terms of being four points clear and trying to kind of hold on to that lead

and I think we've sported about so many times on here can they really kind of sustain that lead but I think they're in such a better position than there were a few seasons ago in terms of the squad that they have and that experience that they've got but I think for me the worrying thing is that nervousness between the fans

but also the comments that Mikhail Artea had after the game. Do you understand the nerds? of the players, Chris? No, certainly not at this stage of the season. I could understand if, you know, going into the last few games. I get why the fans are nervous because they've been so close before, but I would be hoping the Arsenal players have got a different outlook on things than their support.

And I think that all teams, like, I can't remember a Premier League where the top teams haven't had a blip at some stage. And it's three games in the Premier League where they've had a bit of a wobble. But when you look at Arsenal's strength and depth, which they have in the squad, I would still be, like you said, I would still much rather be Arsenal than anybody else.

And, you know, we've seen Manchester City look fragile this season. Aston Villa, have, you know, had a poor start to the season, but they've been on a pretty incredible run. but then they slipped up at home to Everton. Nobody saw that coming. They responded well. So I think that if the Arsenal players have any doubt in the minds right now or something 15 games to go, then heaven helped them when it comes to the running.

Do you think it matters that I'm not sure apart from maybe Gabby Jesus? There's not really anyone in that Arsenal team who's won a title. So when you do hit those moments, and Chris is totally right, that you're going to have a blip. Winning titles isn't easy. It's not meant to be easy. It's meant to be quite stressful. Who kind of settles the other players down?

There's no one with the previous experience of that. I think that's a very good question. Would they prefer players within that team, within that squad who had been there and done it? Would that help? Yeah, I think it would. But I do think it's, you know, as a former player, a long time ago, Rory.

But I do think that the process, you know, always is. You know, I don't know what Steph thinks. But as a player, you just focus on the next game. That's literally what you do. You have to erase the previous game. It was a disappointing loss. And you have to put out that noise from the side where people are doubting you. You know, don't necessarily read the papers and what have you.

And just focus on yourselves. That's all you can do. And Arsenal have too much quality in their squad not to bounce back. I would be shocked if they didn't get back on the rails, you know, very, very. very quickly. And maybe it is a good thing that it's happened now rather than March,

April time, I think four points ahead in terms of, yeah, of course, they're not really in that full rhythm that we probably so used to Arsenal seen in terms of scoring goals, players being at the best form,

the likes of Saka, Gokores, O'Degard, their players that they need to kind of hit them forms to be able to kind of win this league. But I think in terms of experience, Rory, I think it is, sometimes it is nice to have them players

that I've won it, but ultimately, like, these players play big games every single week. I mean, we watch the game together into Milan and the Champions League, and they were really, really impressive against a very... You did, sorry, who watched that game? Me and Rory. You're right, nice, yeah. We had Champions League. All right, okay.

I don't know where you were, Chappas for that one. No, fanci it, no. Just going back to, you know, Rory's thing about experience. I was with Kenny Dalglish actually earlier today, and we're talking about that season when Blackburn won it. I don't know whether you were born, Rory, 94, 95. Was 13. Come on.

But we had a wobble towards the end, a big wobble. And I did say to him, and we hadn't had a player in the squad who had been there and won it. We were quite a young squad, really. And when the panic did set in towards the end, I did say that, you know, that Kenny Darglish was the figurehead. And he, you know, I think he said to jokingly, he said, well, he was panicking as well. He just didn't show it. But, you know, it is a comfort. But, you know, at this stage of the season,

I really can't imagine that the players focusing on anything other than just winning the next game. And this isn't the run-in yet. The other point, and Chris has sort of made it already, Rory, is that nobody is exactly chasing them down at the moment. I mean, whilst Arsenal haven't pulled a little, long way clear because of Manchester City's recent form, for example,

City haven't exactly taken advantage of what's been going on with Arsenal. And five games ago, Arsenal's lead was two points. Well, now it's four. So calm down. And that is just maths-wise, that's twice as many chapters. That is, that's just a fact.

No, are you right? Continually filling your role as the intelligent one on the show. That is the expert analysis that means I'm on the No, I think you're right. I think if you look at it in the round, they have extended their lead and yeah, all right,

they missed the chance to do seven clear and that's fine. But I suppose from the fans' perspective is that you have seen city wobble. There is that sense that you could have put enough distance between yourselves and city not quite to finish it, but to really make it feel a lot more comfortable.

And I think that for... But hang on, hang on. Sorry, can I just throw one... Since they lost at Villa, which was at the beginning of December, the 6th of December, up until yesterday, they'd drawn two games in the league.

They'd won everything else. Artetta out. Drawing two games, come on. Do you think it's more about the performance though, Chappas, than the actual points? But then, like, say, Chris might kind of agree with us in this sense when you're in that title winning team. It is just about getting the points on the table

and trying to win games no matter how it looks. But I think because Arsenal have kind of set a standard at the beginning of the season, to be this team that everybody's wanting to chase down and the football's been really, really good. These last few games it hasn't been clicking. Is that more while the fans are probably a little bit more panicky in that sense? I think that's probably part of it.

But the other thing that's really relevant from the fans, and I can't, you know, I have no idea whether it's the sort of thing the players care about. But for the fans, it's that they've fallen short three times. And the last thing they need is to be in a sort of tight, nip-and-tuck battle with a team like Manchester City because the nerves are much more likely to affect the Arsenal fans than they are the city fans who've been through it before,

Arsenal, I think, because it does feel sort of psychologically fractured. No, no, no, they didn't throw any of them away, but none of them fell in Arsenal's favour. And I think it's when you've not won a title for a long, long time, and Arsenal haven't won a title for a long long time, for a club of their size, they don't more than 20 years without a title is not great. I think getting over the line of that that first one

feels so stressful for a fan that, to be honest, you really want it to be a procession, because anything else is almost impossible to deal with. Because you're not used to the kind of the emotion, the stress that it causes. The players, I think, will be immune to that. But I think for the fans, it's that what's frustrating is that missed opportunity that City have stumbled and Arsenal have not punished them. You wouldn't prefer it to be a procession, really, if you're a fan.

You'd rather it go down to the last day and win it with the last kick. In hindsight, you might. That's a better journey. In hindsight, you definitely won that, Chris. But I think at the time, it's very stressful. It's like saying the playoffs are the best way to go up, and they are if you go up. But you're not going to want to be in the playoffs if you don't go up. You want to have got 106 points in the championship and got promoted in March.

That's what you want. The one thing which, what was the stat on matches that I about? Was it 57% of the goals from open play? Am I right in that? Were there 17th? Do you want me to do it properly? Do the proper stat. But I did actually sit up and think,

This is a crazy stat. Right. Okay. And you nodded off until that stat came up. Had you? No. Okay. So they've scored 42 goals of Arsenal,

which puts them second in the Premier League for most goals scored. They've scored 35.7% of those goals from set pieces, which is the fourth best in the Premier League, which actually makes me think, blammy, there are three teams who scored a higher percentage of goals from set pieces.

However, this is the bit where you woke up during match of the day last night. 57.1% of their goals have therefore come from open play. And that is only the 17th best in the Premier League. So that is how low

their percentages of goals from open play. Hang on. This is more complicated than 2 plus 2 equals 4 so I'm a little bit lost. I realize that adds up to 92.8%. What's missing penalties?

I'm hoping so. Own goals, maybe? On goals, must be own goals, yeah. As I was reading those percentages out, I did think, that doesn't add up to 100, but we'll gloss over that. And that would be a concern to Mikhail Artetta, I think. But when you look at the players they have within their team, you think, well, how is that possible?

How have they, you know, I don't know what their XG has been. I think that the fact that, he's not sure about his centre forward now. Gabriel Jesus is fit. Why did Gabriel Jesus start the head of Yokorez in that particular game? Maybe, you know, he's always come out publicly and I get why he's always come out publicly

and backed Yoko Reyes. And he has to do that because there's a detrimental effect to him if he comes out and says, well, you know, he should be doing much better. But I do think that that is a stat which would be a concern for him. You know, the set pieces thing, you know, everybody knows Arsenal are brilliant at them. and you think that teams would get better and smarter

and wiser in defending set pieces against Arsenal. So if they do want to win the Premier League, then certainly goals from open play, they need to improve in that area. Well, the other thing that they said in that chat on match of the day last night, Danny Murphy did to Kelly, he said only two teams have won a Premier League title when their top scorer has scored 13 or fewer.

So you've got to, in the main, you need somebody hitting more than 13 goals in the season if you're going to win the title. And Arsenal's top scorers at the moment are Yocchrez and Trossard on five. And you look at some of their attacking players. Saka, no goals in his last 13. Yocchres, no non-penalty goals in his last 11 in the Premier League. Martinelli, no goals in his last 13 in the Premier League.

Madweke, no goals of his last 25 in the Premier League. And Trossard won goal in his last 11 in all competitions. That probably explains the nervousness, as you were saying. Yeah, that's the reality for Arsenal at this moment in time. And we've continuously spoke about strength and depth in Arsenal, even though they rotate them players at this moment, they aren't producing what they're supposed to produce. I think Saka's the one that really surprises.

I think for all the games that he plays, you probably presume that he has assists and goals, but to have none in the last 13 games is a surprise. And he is one of their key, key players that are supposed to create and score and be that kind of linchpin for the team to propel them forward. And obviously, we always thought that Gokores was going to be that kind of missile piece to the puzzle this season for Arsenal. They were wanting that number nine and yeah, he's got five goals. But them two players in Gundagun and Lampard for Man City and Chelsea when they won the league,

they were attacking the field as that were making the box. Like, that is the way that they played and that was a focus of what they did. I feel as though sometimes Arsenal it becomes a little bit too predictable. and I think now teams have started to work them out. So do you think they're not allowed to be off the cuff? Look, I think in all the best teams, there's certain patterns of player, there's certain combinations that happen,

and a lot of their player does, they do use their wingers. Quite a lot of you look at Trossard, whether it's Martinelli, whether it's Saka, whether it's Madwarky. I'd love to know what, in terms of how many passes they receive from the number eight to the number 10s, how much it does go down that side.

It's what next now, but I feel as though, even Man United yesterday, you've got the likes of Maguire and Martiners, experienced defenders that are blocking the six-yard box, they're blocking where Hesuz is, there's blocking the space. You've got Casamero and Mayanoo that are sitting in that penalty spot area.

So if there's cutbacks, they can clear it. So I feel as though they could be off the cuff more. I think it was born with the way when Declan Rice is getting on the edge of the box and he's scoring, and that's becoming, if he can add more of that to his game, but I think generally, I think strike is an attack and plays,

you would expect better numbers from them for the amount of ball that they get. Which would then lead on to the next question, either Chris or Rory, which is, are not the exact strike strikes from Dorghu and Cunya, but the build-up to both those goals, the one-touch movement in both those goals,

do you think you see that less and less from Arsenal? Is that a clumsy comparison or not? Well, my view on Yocchere's since he's gone in at Arsenal, I don't think that he need to sort of be careful how a phrase this, but I don't think he's a really intelligent footballer. I don't think that, I actually think that, you know, you think about the way that Havert's plays. And I think, you know, Havert's is slightly different,

but I think that if you want that, if you want that type of goal, to exploit his strengths, that's what I'm asking. Yeah, I think Steph touched on it. I think Arsenal, you know, like to utilize the wide areas and whatever. It's not to say they can't score a goal like Manchester United scored with Doggoo with quick one-touch play. And, you know, you think of players like Ezra and O'Degard, they have brilliant awareness and vision in what's in and around them.

But, yeah, it's a really good point, actually. I can't remember the last time I saw Arsenal scorer type of goal with quick one-touch passing like that. I mean, under the sort of Venga teams, that was all their goals were. Well, you're going to go to the iconic Jack Wilshire goal again. Was that against Norwich? Chris, if your polite version was he's not a very intelligent footballer,

what was the impolite version? No, okay. I mean, yesterday's Arsenal dolls were so, it was like they'd been stripped by someone who wanted to criticise Arsenal for storing ugly goals. They were two of the kind of least attractive goals

you will ever see. And you're right, I can't think of anything, I'm sure there will have been beautiful flowing moves this season. I don't know whether, and Steph and Chris are better qualified to answer this than I am. Do you think they want to use the wide areas? Or do you think that teams now flood the width of the 18-yard box

so much that they have to? Rory, I think we mentioned this the other night was in terms of, you know, like the idea of space, when you watch the Champions League teams go against each other, like Inter Milan v Arsenal, both teams want to win, they want to play this certain way of football, so actually they give each other enough space for them players to kind of flourish. You look at Gokorez's goal,

You look at, did Saka score that night as well. I think in terms of the space that they've been able to give in, I just don't think that is replicated in the Premier League because they know their strengths. Like if you give players like Saka, Martinelli, Trossard, room to run. And I think Man United's goals, Arsill give Manchester United Space and their players that they're front for. They love the space to run into that like Bruno Fernandez likes the space to be able to pass

for people to run. And that was what Arsill gave up. because they had so much control of the ball. And I think it's so interesting watching the Champions League games to Premier League against the top team because ultimately those players, like the wingers that like to go 1V1,

if you're so deep in your box, where do they go? The only choice that they've really got to go, unless they beat the player, and it has to be so good because these defenders are very good 1V1 defenders, is to go backwards.

And that's where I think that is the difference that I've seen yesterday is that say Manchester United v Arsenal, Manchester United were allowed the space because Arsenal had a lot of the possession. They were waiting for that moment for that ball to be kind of turned over. In the Inter Milan v Arsenal game,

that was two teams that wanted to play a certain style. And there was so much space because that's how they believed that football should be played at that level. So flipping it to United on what Steph has said, have they, whilst there may have been tweaks in both games against City and Arsenal, Chris, have they essentially won it in a very similar way, being defensively strong and hitting on the counter? and using the space that they're allowed.

And if so, does that mean that you can't really judge them until they come up against teams who are going to allow them to have the ball? Yeah, knowing Manchester United, a brilliant start for Carrick, the way they've played in both games, the players have got to say, just on the face of it, I think this has been said before, so there's nothing new. They do look like they're unburdened, and Bruno Fernandez is playing in his favourite position.

He's getting lots of touches on the ball. So, you know, I think that, I think that, that is big. But I think we have to judge them over a longer period. They've got Fulham next to. There'll be that expectation now, Manchester United are beaten city. They've beaten Arsenal that they should wipe the floor with Fulham.

And it's a type of game which could prove difficult. It's a type of game they'll lose. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Or certainly the one after that, I think they've got Tottenham. Now, that is the type of game that Manchester United would lose against Tottenham who have been hopeless. No, I just think they have a nice balance about them.

You know, I really do. what was the stat with Bruno Fernandez? He had the most touches against Manchester City was at the second most touches against Arsenal. Doorgoo looks comfortable in his position. You know, Maguire and Martinez look really solid. And the players look like they know what they're doing. And, you know, they look like round pegs in round holes now.

And the issue before under Ambram is they were, you know, there always seemed to be a bit of confusion. Ambrin had long enough to get things right. but, you know, all of a sudden Michael Carrick's come in and he's made it look easy and the players have made it look easy but let's just wait to see. Let's not give Michael Carrick an eight-year deal yet.

Two things. That wasn't the question that I asked. But it's... I'm not trying to... I'm not going to be asking that question for a bit until after Spurs. But that is obviously what's going to happen. Chappas has got the contractor yet. There are...

Do you want? Forget the football side of things, Rory. There were two things that struck me as being very different yesterday to under the old regime. The first was it was an unchanged line-up from the previous game and Amoryam didn't do that in his first 36 Premier League games in charge of United. And the second one was the substitution when Dorgu was injured or got cramp and he brought on CESCO and moved Cunia out to the left.

He went with an attacking substitution and left. and left his centre halves alone. They are the two things that stood out in decision-making yesterday, for me. Yeah, I think what seems to have changed that United is that that simplicity that character's brought to it means everyone is very clear on what is happening, and I think that probably really helps, that there isn't too much tweaking,

there isn't too much messing around, there isn't a lot of kind of, you know, I like Treyfinalamaran, and it seems a bit mean, but there isn't a lot of stuff happening that you think is designed to make the coach look clever. It's very much, this is kind of, this is the obvious thing to do, I'll do that.

I've got to however much Benjamin Sesto cost. Really expensive, very talented striker on the bench. I will bring him on and I'll shuffle somebody else around and they'll be able to do a job. But I do find it, I find it fascinating that Carrick has had that impact. His managerial career at Middlesbrough was pretty good. He was fine. He did a good job at Middlesbrough.

He didn't, if you compare him to say Solskia at Cardiff. He'd done three years there and performed pretty well, not spectacularly, but pretty well. He's a smart bloke. He gets it. he's obviously got an idea. He's got good coaches around him. I think having Steve Holland,

bringing Steve Holland and is a really, really smart thing to do. But there is a simplicity to what he's done. I think you can caveat it a little bit just by saying that it maybe suits him to have had City and Arsenal first.

They're obviously two of the two best teams in the country, but they are free hits for a rookie manager at Manchester United. That takes the pressure off. But again, you can say that with hindsight, yeah, yeah, no, 100%.

Although I did have a... Is there ever a free hit in a Derby game? Not... Yeah, that's a fair. point. I just, I wonder whether it would have been different if he'd gone into a game and it's a team that he was really expected to beat. And City definitely, as we

said last week, played into United's hands in the derby. They did exactly what United would have wanted them to do. Or made them do. Or again, made them do, that's true. But he has had this transformative impact. And it reminds me a little bit of Vittor Pereira at Wolves last year, that he came in, without really any

fanfare or hullabaloo, did a variety of quite simple things and they worked. And it always makes me wonder, so why was Reuben Amram not doing that? Why is Thomas Frank not able to do that? At Tottenham, what is the difference that enables certain managers to come in and have just this really, really sort of, and make it look easy, to be honest, when others can't? I think for me, I think, you know, we talk about simplicity, but basics of football

and these players have played the system throughout their whole careers. And I think putting them in the right position, like you look at even Luke Shaw, like Luke Shaw played the left of a back three for the majority of his time on Amaran. He is a better left back. He knows what he should do in defence in terms of where he should show the player. It's not guessing if you can get tight to the ball, get tight to the ball. If you can't, you stay in your position. You look at Dogoo.

Dogoo didn't feature that much apart from this last run of six or seven games, but you've put him higher up and basically try to use his strengths in terms of his pace, his ability dribble with the ball, get the team up the pitch. And I feel as though, like them base is going struck. And the biggest thing for me, Chappas, is the body language of the players. They actually look as though they're really, really enjoying this way of playing. And, yeah, of course, you enjoy it more when you're winning, you've got that little bit of confidence.

But I do feel as though Carrick's come in and give them that little bit of belief back. And I think there's nothing worse than you when you're being coached by managers and you've got that little tiny bit of confusion because then you're second guessing, you're doubting yourself. And time will tell in terms of these next runner games for Manchester United, how this system works, how these players do. But I think in terms of them front four for United, they can win anyone a game with their attributes that they have.

And also then you're bringing Cunier off the bench, which a great player for Wolves probably hasn't kickstarted, is Manchester career as much as you wanted to. But to come on and score that goal, yes, they just shows the quality that Michael Carrick has at hand. Is the coaching staff which some people chose to take the Mickey out of? Do you think he's got quite a good balance there? Let me say what Wayne Rooney's said on.

on it. He said, do you know what I think it is at the moment? There is a calmness about the place. I was watching the under-18s game on Friday night and I was watching the under-16s on Saturday morning and they were all there again. Carrick was there, Holland, Wilcox, all the coaches were there and something which you've heard me talking about a lot, the connection with the academy. But what I saw from them, not just from Michael, but the other coaches, Johnny Evans as well, is just a real calmness and belief. Yeah, I mean it's early days. Give them a lose a couple of games and let's see if they're still rocking up the under 18s games. I'm surprised he didn't ask you to be part of his staff with this motivational positivity

you're coming out with. There's a lot to be, you know, there's a lot to be said for employing you. There is, yeah. Lincoln thought that. But in a short space of time, you know, these are all experienced guys. They've been there, they've done it at this place. They will know and their worry will be and they'll be saying it internally, we have cracked nothing yet.

It's a great stuff, but they will always know there's a game around the corner which could hurt them. I just think that, you know, the simplicity thing is, and Steph mentioned Dogoo. Doggo's best attributes are in an attacking sense.

Defensively, that wasn't his strong suit and yet Amram would play him in that sort of wingback role and he wasn't comfortable doing that. Playing a little bit higher up now, you know, he would feel unburdened, he would feel free, he would have that confidence. You know, being, some players just don't take to being asked to do roles, which are, you know,

which weren't their sort of natural role as such. And that seemed to be the issue under Amber. I mean, Manchester United have always had good players. It's about getting the right fit. Even among, amid like Chris's deliberate, sour cynicism, he is kind of right. The risk with United is that they have two good results and then everyone gets a little bit carried away and things that are natural and kind of obvious when things are going well. Michael Carrick's had a great week, are held up as,

oh, he's completely changed the vibe around the place, and that will shift if they do hit a rocky patch, ultimately. But they have a big advantage United this season, because they're only playing once a week now. Ruben Amram's great gift to Manchester United was getting them knocked out of both domestic cups, which means they can play once a week until the end of the season. They play far less football. They should be fitter than everybody.

I wonder whether at times I sense it the other way, actually, whereas in that a lot of people may be connected to the club or fans are trying not to get carried away because of everything that happened with Solshal, trying to enjoy it, but trying not to get carried away. But then that shouldn't invalidate his credentials if it goes well.

Just because, and I can't remember who said, but just because they did it one way a few years ago, they're not the same type of coaches, people, whatever, just, you know. Oh, and over a couple of years, the game changes, the players changes. and I think Michael's come in and really kind of just come in and stamped his own authority on that team and the way that he wants to do.

But I think Rory, in terms of, you know, when you're saying, like, you can't really judge them on the two games and maybe it's a bit of a free hit. But the most impressive thing is they came from behind yesterday. I think, whereas against City, they were in the lead. They kind of had that little bit of something to hold on to. You're at home at Old Trafford. You've got the crowd behind you.

It's his first game. But yesterday, it was more of a, They came back. They didn't stop the way that they wanted to play. Whereas I think sometimes when you see his team, that doesn't mean you believe in the kind of the ethos that the coach has. It's like you're trying, you just rip up everything you've done in the week in training. You just try and find a way to score.

Whereas actually it was well thought out, Bruno Fernandez, obviously kind of ticking things over in midfield and in Bremort trying to get in between the defence and the midfield and create problems for them, which it works. So I think there were signs, very positive signs, that actually the players are listening to what the coach. as saying. But yeah, I mean, that Fulham game is going to be a big one in terms of the performance

and obviously the result as well in them next games that are coming up. You need a bit of luck, don't you, as a manager? And Zubimendi. How many goals this season can you remember Arsenal gifting a team? Gabrielle did that one against Bournemouth, didn't he? Pretty sure it was. Well, and actually it's turning into a bit of a trend for Arsenal. They've made more errors leading to a shot in their last five Premier League games

than they did in their first eight. So it is happening more with them. That's completely right. It's not just being, it's not just United. It's a trend. The players do seem to have really brought into character really quickly, and that I think is significant as well. And Chappas, you're right,

that just because it didn't work long term with Solstoyer, Solstoyer didn't do a terrible job at Manchester United. He wasn't awful. Just as that didn't play out the way that everyone hopes it would in the sort of first flush of that win in Paris. It might be that Michael Tarrick is the right character. That is possible. I think the complicating factor

when you have that kind of romantic attachment to a club is where do you set the bar? Like what does Michael Carrick do to prove that he can do it long term and is it lower for him than it would be for an external candidate? That's the tricky thing that they've got to work out is how do you separate really wanting it to work and actually looking at it kind of with a cool head and cold eyes and saying, okay, these are the bits that we think mean

this can work for reasons that aren't just nostalgia and poetry? I think Jason Wilcox, when I used to play with James, I think that the deal they've given Carrick, or, you know, just at the end of the season, I think it's a real stinker for United. I think it is a stinker because it's sort of halfway house, isn't it? You know, again, this is an audition, isn't it? This is what it is. And if he does, if he does well, get to the end of the season, and everybody will throw

the Solskar thing at United. He's passed his audition. He's done well. He deserves the job. If there was that much belief in Michael Carrick and that comment. they would have given him a longer deal. That's just a fact, you know, it would have happened. It wouldn't look like Manchester United

of waiting maybe for someone at the end of the season. But is this not a better way of doing it, Chris, of saying here's six months to see if you can do it? Well, that's not absolute faith in Michael Carrick, is it? No, but the Chelsea keep having absolute faith in managers and giving them 50-year contracts and they're having to pay them constantly. Yeah, and I get that.

But how many years was Ruben Amram given? Three? Three. So, you know, there you go. Faith in Rubenhamrim and, you know, we'll give him a three-year deal. Michael Carrick did OK at Middlesbrough. Ties to the club and knows the club. Well, we'll just get him in as a filler.

I think, you know, it'll unravel and it will unravel. It's going to be messy. It just... What? He takes over from Carrick? No, I'm just saying the whole sort of optics. Oh, you missed that, didn't you? That was a good joke.

Thank you. Thank you, Rory. Yeah. But I do, you know, at the end of the end of the end of the... end of the season there is, you know, there's going to be issues. So if Michael Carrick gets, or keeps United in fourth place, you know, what do they do at the end of the season? Do they stick with him? But that's my whole point. But that's my whole point, Chris, in that you can't go, well, he's got as Champions League football and we've won 13 of the 17 games he was in charge.

And the players are happy. And one of them scored 20 league goals in the season. But we tried this once before. Therefore, we can't go. I mean, that's, you evaluate everything, don't you? Yeah. You can't use Solshar as a reason not to look at him, is my point. That's absolutely right, but no doubt Manchester United Defence will look at that situation. And I was one-off memory, and I'd change my mind loads, but I was all for, Oligona Solskar, because he passed the audition. That's what he did. And so he, you know, he deserved, he deserved the job. Michael Carrick, that could happen, that could be the same, but you can imagine what happens at start of next season. If United

get beaten by Coventry at home and the first game, it'll be Carrick out. Middlesbrough. Yeah. I mean last season Chris, you support a Nottingham Forest, so you are known to change your mind from time to time. Ashton Villa this season. Oh, is it?

Okay. Tom and Middlesbrough fan has actually emailed us. MNC at BBC.com. uk. Karit came into a team who was struggling at the bottom in a toxic culture and he freed them. The talent was there and we nearly got to a playoff final. But then he struggled the next season

to rebuild the strong team and then again the season after. So the big question will be, how would he rebuild the United team or build it and what his plans BC and D are for when the bounce wears off? MNC at BBC.co.com.uk. We had one on Arsenal as well.

Paul from North, which the greatest danger to Arsenal winning the Premier League is Arsenal themselves. The legacy of failed title chaser of the last three years, seems to be weighing very heavily on our tetta, the players and the fans. The atmosphere was tense yesterday.

Fifteen games to go, and the race hasn't even started yet. My name's Steve Bradnell, assistant manager of Royal Oak FC. You may have seen me online with Vinyl. Vinyl sensation. And now, the BBC have given me the chance to set

the footballing world banter ice. This could be a great opportunity. for us, lads, a podcast for the BBC. Can I just say, what's the podcast? Brilliant. Great start. Well done, Bob. Brilliant.

We can completely show utter transparency to Royal Oak fans. I'll use my charm. Gift it, gab. Games got the Steve Bracknell podcast. Watch on YouTube. Listen on BBC Sounds. This is the Monday nightclub with Mark Chapman.

On the Football Daily podcast. On to Liverpool, who Alan Shearer, Steph, described as soft and too easy to play against on match of the day on Saturday night. Fair? Yes, I think that we have seen a different side to Liverpool that we're probably expected this season. I think the style of play,

but also that vulnerability of Liverpool is something that I'm not used to seeing, especially after them winning the league last year. But I think full credit to Bournemouth as well, I don't want to say that it was all Liverpool that game because Bournemouth played really well and really fought back. But Liverpool are so inconsistent this season. I think that's a worry.

I think in terms of seeing them against Marseille, they looked free, they looked as though they've got this fluidity about them, and they go to Bournemouth and it goes back to that kind of rigidity where they are obviously Salas coming back into the team. They're trying to settle on a system, missing a few players. But ultimately, it just doesn't seem to be that free-flown football that we've seen of last season. So in terms of too soft, I think the game management was probably awful at times in terms of conceding goals when players are off the pitch as well.

But yeah, they're definitely missing something this season. I, with great respect, quibble with Steph's use the word inconsistent, I think Liverpool have been quite consistent. They're just not very good. I think that's the issue. It's five wins in 18 lead games. They were, as Steph says, we both did the Champions League show on Wednesday. And I thought that was probably Liverpool's best performance of the season against Marseille. they've looked pretty good in Europe

they've beaten around Madrid they've beaten into Milan at San Zero but in the lead they have been whether they've won the games or lost them or drawn them they've not been convincing it's the third injury time goal they've conceded I think or injury time winner they've conceded this season but the reason that they're susceptible

to those long throws or the corners or whatever late on it's not just that they have a problem defending them in the end although they do it's that they haven't controlled the game for the 90 minutes before it they are always vulnerable to something and i'm not sure there's any real sign well where should that control come from for you well i think they should probably keep the ball a bit better and create a few chances to be honest they don't if you you know again the against born with

a dominant sobbers life free kick i'd be if i was dominant sobs like i'd be furious with every single player around me because he's really trying his best to carry them through the season and nobody else is helping but they're not creating from open play there's a brilliant piece in the times today by um Hamzalunit Karnat about about how little they are creating the they create fewer chances on average than the rest of the Premier League and no the lead average of XG per shot is 0.1 and Liverpool's is below that what the numbers mean isn't especially important just that Liverpool are below average in terms of the quality of chance they're creating and that's a team that's got Mohammed Sala huge record TK cost 79 million quits 106 million pounds worth of Florian

converts in it, Alexis McAllister, Ryan Gravenberg, Soberts, like, they're not creating anything. And then I think Alan Shear is right, they're soft at the back. There's just no control, there's no shape, there's no kind of sense of they know how to win football matches at all anymore. And sometimes they thought the margins fall in their favour and they do win, but it's not being convincing all season. At the start of the season when they were winning and, you know, winning ugly, I thought that was a really good thing.

But Liverpool fans who I know are also finding the football, boring and I think that that clearly is an issue I cannot I'd probably maybe Marseille maybe Real Madrid maybe Arsenal earlier on in the season where there's a bit of a rearguard action from Liverpool and they ended up getting over the line but other than that I can't remember Liverpool playing really for 90 minutes

in a game and that's an issue and then of course the right back issue losing Trent how many different right backs is at four this season Liverpool have played He is for. Bradley Frimpong. Sobers lie. I mean, clearly, that doesn't help. And then the guy playing up on the right,

Mosala looks like he's put his boots on the wrong feet this season. He's just, he's miles off it. You then look at Van Dyke. His levels are dropped. And you're talking about two stars, two of the star players, whose levels haven't just dropped. I mean, they've dropped significantly. Even players like Gravenberch,

who last season, I think, was phenomenal. He's not at the level. McAllister this season has been a disappointment. You know, you mentioned it. It seems like Zobbers Lion's own for Liverpool, and that's the issue. But it's, and the run they were on, what, 13 unbeaten, when you actually, with respect,

look at the teams who they're beaten. It wasn't anything to be getting too excited about. But you just feel that there is a frustration amongst Liverpool fans. And I think from now to the end of the season, it is going to be important for Arna Slot to get them back and get them playing well

and competing much better than they have done. They've spent a fortune as well. They've lost good players. Louis Diaz has been a massive loss. I think maybe when he was at Liverpool, he did get credit, but maybe not enough credit. In that on beat and run, by the way,

they've beat just the teams that Chris is disrespecting. They beat West Ham, into Brighton Not what they were Brighton Not great

Spurs Oh awful Wolves Oh bottom Barnsley in the FA Cup Oh Barnsley And Marseille away

There is a discrepancy between Liverpool's form in Europe And Liverpool's form in the Premier League And Steph referred to it Before in terms of Premier League teams Kind of coming to bring sides Who were playing in a much more open way in Europe But in domestically

They've been I'd say disappointing in every single game they've played And Chris is right, as much as he shouldn't be disrespecting teams or doing bad impressions of South Yorker accents. The run that they've had since the November international break when they came back and lost 3-0 at home to Forest has been one of those sets of games where you look at it beforehand and think,

there are points to be made up there. Those are games that are team with Liverpool's quality and expectations should win. They haven't picked up the points in them. And now it flips. And Chelsea and United, both of whom are above Liverpool, have kindly affidxtures between now and March, there's a decent chance that if Liverpool keep on playing the way they are,

they're out of Champions League contention by the start of March, and that is when Arna Slot has a real problem. Does he have a problem tonight, if Everton beat Leeds and go within a point of them? Yeah, I think Ebonne, I think he's got a problem full stop. There's a whole load of teams that are kind of within two or three points of Liverpool. They play Newcastle at the weekend, then City, at home, got Sunderland and Forest away.

It's very hard to see Liverpool winning any of those games, the way they're playing. And that will be a real problem for it. Yeah, that's it. At home to Newcastle at the weekend, city at home, Sunderland away, forest away, and then West Ham at home and Wolves away. That takes them to the beginning of March.

A final one on Liverpool, and only because you mentioned him, Chris, and I had Liverpool fan say this to me over the course of the weekend yesterday, I think, that Van Dyck needs to spend less time trying to look imperious and cool, and that he can deal with anything and just defend a bit better? Is that fair?

No, no, I don't think that that is fair. I don't think you can actually have a pop-at-a-player for looking confident and word was imperious and having a presence. He just needs to defend better than he has and make better decisions. I mean, because of the first-born-us goal where he hesitated. Well, that was what the fan was referring to. Yeah, I mean, I don't, you know, I don't think in that moment, the fan you know,

Virgil Van Dyke was thinking, oh, it's more about how I look, and I've got to make sure my shoulders are back. No, but I don't think they meant literally how he looks. I think, oh, I'm going to try and bring it down, rather than wallop it. But Chris's whole career, he's played like that, that he's very confident in what he does.

I think some players are like that a little bit in terms of, if I compare, say, Rubin Diaz to Virgil Van Dyke, they are two different types of centre halves. Like Ruben Diaz, in every action, like he's shouting at someone, he's body position, he's like really, really intense. Whereas, and that brings really good positives from a centre half's point of view.

But then Van Dyke brings something else because he has got that class, he's got that ability to kind of calm people down. And I'm going to stick up from in the sense of, I think, in terms of Liverpool and how they play, I do feel as though he has been left vulnerable and in situations that he shouldn't really, that we wouldn't have seen last year

in terms of players. running at him in terms of them being outnumbered at the back. I think, of course, Liverpool defensively haven't got the numbers to be able to rotate and keep people sharp. And I think he's played pretty much every single game. And I think the fan is probably a little bit harsh, but I understand when Liverpool are in this moment, I think Chris mentioned in terms of they're a bit boring to watch

because I think we all associate Liverpool Football Club as this team that plays fast footballers very, every time they get, it's about trying to score as many goals as possible, whereas they're trying to change the style and it's just not suiting. And also when players are not in form, it doesn't all come together. Name a Dutch player who has never looked like they've had a swagger.

All Dutch players, they have that sort of presence like they would eat themselves. That's just a Dutch thing. They're a confident lot. There was a winner at Leeds who was really bad. I don't remember what his name is. He wants Miss George the dribble so badly that he ran halfway at the family stand.

I try and what his name is that really not. the mid-90s. It'll come to me. Glenn something maybe. I think Steph mentions the lack of defensive options. There will be a lot of criticism of slot. There has been. I think his job has to be under scrutiny.

That's natural. But it's worth just making the point that Liverpool don't have a manager, they have a head coach. There are people responsible for recruitment who have left slot with a squad that is very clearly imbalanced. It's expensive,

but there wasn't nearly enough cover in various positions. They should be under scrutiny too. So you're talking about there, Richard Hughes? Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards. And to be honest, I find it very odd, given the injury to Bradley... Did anybody say that at the start of the season? I think there was... To be fair, I think there was a sense of, hang on, this looks top-heavy.

I think there was an awareness that Liverpool squad was not as deep as Arsenal, certainly. But you're right, chap, as they did. They sold a lot of players, but they spent a lot of money. I think it seems slightly unfair to me that Slot gets all... All of the manager, the head coach, still takes all of the blame and the responsibility when they don't have all of the power. That feels like a slightly strange situation to be in. The fact that Liverpool seem to have decided they're not recruiting in January,

given the injuries, which are not, there's not a huge number of them, but they're significant, I think is Matt. We just have five minutes to do handball and VAR, which is good, isn't it? Three games, three different handball shouts, all with different outcomes. Do you agree with the referee at City? We did this for final score and when I first saw it Chappas I thought it was going to be a penalty

because we've seen some of these in the Premier League this season. I applaud him for going and kind of stand in his ground that he didn't think it was a penalty but I think the problem is that the inconsistency of the rule and how people interpret that's the problem that we have in the Premier League

at this moment in time. So it goes from City v. Wolves not being a penalty but then Tristel Palace v. Chelsea it then becomes a peasant. and he has to have this big, long explanation. How was that even helping? Why did you think it was a penalty at City? Just because his arm was out?

Just because his arm now, but I understand from a player's point of view, why his arm is out. He's trying to stop Mamush cutting on the inside. It's not because of the ball. He's not trying to stop the ball. He's trying to stop the player. So that's why I thought, actually, I understand from a player's point of view,

I would be mad that if that was given against me, but I've seen it given this season. So then that's where you're kind of like, you try to think about what you think you should give, and that's where you get so much confused. There were two Premier League referees in that VAR booth that sent him to the screen there. Both of them Premier League referees. It was Darren England and I think, off the top of my head,

I think it was Sam Barrett was alongside him. And they sent the referee in his first Premier League game to the screen, which you could interpret as a slight power play bearing in mind, Chris, we've talked about these things before. Why have you got a way? That's an assumption. It is an assumption. What I enjoyed earlier is when you said when he had his arm out,

you actually moved your arm out. Right, okay, well. Just for people watching on iPlay or YouTube? Yeah, enjoyed that. It was like instinctive. I'm with Steph, actually. I actually thought that, you know, his arm was out. And, you know, everybody's definition of that when the arm is out of the, what's it out of the silhouette, it should have been a penalty.

And again, I quite like the way you handled it. But, you know, these are subjective calls and there will always be arguments about that. I don't necessarily think that... I mean, I get what you're saying, that they'd half through him under the bus, but I suppose in that situation, we'd all do the same thing with the young, talented referee ball against first game.

Let's test him out. Let's see what he's got. So I don't mind that. You are a horrible man at times. You would do that. So if you were VAR, if you were VAR, and I was referee in my first game, you'd send me to the screen about seven times,

would you, to test me out? And if Rory would, you? sitting next and he would be nudging each other. Come on. Let's get him over. Come on.

Did you think there was a little bit of chippiness who was the referee at Palace? So Darren England who sent the ref to the screen at City was then the referee

at Palace. He did not want to do that penalty. No. It was very obvious from what he said that he did not want. And VAR were very much

by all accounts saying to him it has denied a goal scoring opportunity. And this is where yesterday's, I mean, goodness me, all sorts of confusion then came forth then as everybody trying to somehow get the head around a rule with conflicting information coming from different people involved in the decision making. Well, it was really interesting that he explicitly said it was accidental on the pitch,

which I'm not sure, and I've not been to every Premier League down this season, but I'm not sure I've heard a referee do that before and say, it sounded very much like he was qualifying. it sounded an awful lot like when your mum's told you to do something but you don't really want to do it. Do you know what I mean? It's like, well look, they're saying it was a handball. I'm not, you know, it's not on me.

I don't really think, I don't really think it is. It was accidental. Does that mean technically it's not a handball? No. So here's the, thank goodness for Dale Johnson on the BBC Sport website is all I can say in the end. It boils down to a slight difference between denying a goal-scoring opportunity on the one hand

and what constitutes handball as well. So IFAB have a little Q&A section on their website where you can test it. If you've got a spare hour or two, you can test yourself on football rules. Anyhow. So they asked the question, a player prevents the ball from going into their own goal

with the hand or arm but doesn't deliberately handle the ball and does not make their body unnaturally bigger. The answer is this is not a handball. Now then there was a law change in 2024 where a law was modified by IFAB for denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the law reads there where a player denies the opposing team a goal

or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by committing a non-deliberate handball offence and the referee awards a penalty kick. The offender is cautioned, i.e. not a red card. But the confusion here is it has to be an offence. In other words, making the body unnaturally bigger. Do we get that?

Not really. Can you read out again? No, I can't do it again. But therefore, it's not a Dale Johnson's article on the BBC support website. He hasn't made his body unnaturally bigger. No. Therefore, it is not an offence, even though it is or could have been heading towards the net. And the bigger point here, Steph, is they've made everything such a mess and complicated

that to try and get to what the right answer is, well, I don't care whether a ref or a pundit or a player or a journalist is nigh on impossible. Well, it says a lot that the floor of us of you've just read that out and we're all like, so what does that mean? It's just so confusing and I think if you get, it is subjective and whoever's reading them rules and who's guessing then it changes from one game to the next and that's frustrating. And I think those that have played the game, like I think what is he supposed to do when he's in that moment there, when he's trying to block the ball as terms of his hands down by his side?

And it is a probably unnatural position for him as a defender because he's so used to probably putting his arms out of balance, but now all the defenders are putting the hands so close, but yet you still get penalised. It's baffling, and even the explanation of it all, I think, I was listening to, was it going, is it going, is it going to be a pen or is it not? And he said there's a penalty, then he was like,

but, and I'm thinking, oh, my God, if you're in the crowd, you must be thinking, it's not going to be a pen here, but then he just gives it anyway. So it's just, yeah, ultimately really, really confusing. We were binging the traitors over the weekend, and I won't do any spoilers, but you know how at the end,

when they're announced as traitors, they sometimes go, I'm a true favourite. It was a bit like that, but for a penalty in front of 30,000 people. I'll have boards next time, seeing it's a penalty or not. Well, give each referee a little chalkboard. That's fucking be amazing.

Over till next week. No penalty, and then a little heart that they all seem to draw as well. But penalty would have to be spelt wrong. I mean, the final thing on that as well, how do you get a yellow colour? card for something that is accidental. And therefore,

you haven't done anything deliberately, Chris, but you still get booked. I mean, that is nonsense. Yeah, that is. No, to be fair, you can get booked for a challenge that's clumsy, even if you haven't done it intentionally, can't you? Yes, I suppose so, but I would argue that's equally

nonsensical. In other ways, I mean, the whole situation was ridiculous. Dave has sent us an email on Dutch footballers that didn't have swagger. I'm not sure about this. Dirk Kite, he said. No, Dirk Kahnett had no swagger at all, and that's what made him charming.

Really? No swagger in the slightest now. He's a bustle. We still haven't discovered the Leeds Dutch winger who... I know the name, but I now feel guilty. Because I'm sure he's a really nice man. You've done it now. You've got to see it now.

Come on. So he dribbled down the touchline into the family stand. It wasn't a Leeds player. Glenn Heldor. It was an Arsenal winner who ran... Who sort of leapfrogged over the touchline at the other road one and ran half a foot. He was definitely Dutch, was he?

He was definitely Dutch, okay. That's it for this week. Thank you to Chris Rory and Stan. Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. When it comes to sending money abroad, many providers claim to offer free fees and competitive rates. But don't be fooled, this can be code for inflated exchange rates. With the Wise account, you can send, spend and receive money in over 40 currencies

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