Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Emery's Villa revolution, Africa's new superpower and United & Liverpool rivals for Semenyo?

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

How has Unai Emery masterminded Aston Villa's rise? Will United and Liverpool compete for Semenyo? And who are Africa's new superpower, how is Mo Salah viewed in his home continent and why has a major change been made to the African Cup of Nations?Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Pat Nevin join Mark Chapman to discuss and debate the big questions of the week on the Monday Night Club.Guillem Balague, author of 'The Rise of the Villans: Inside Unai Emery's Aston Villa Revolution', joins the panel to provide insight into Emery's excellent work at Villa Park.The group then consider the other side of Sunday's 2-1 victory over Manchester United, who have lost talismanic captain Bruno Fernandes to injury. How can they replace him, and might it force the Reds into a transfer battle with bitter rivals Liverpool? Arne Slot's title holders are waiting for further news on Alexander Isak, with reports suggesting their record-breaking signing has suffered a leg break.African football journalist Maher Mezahi joins us from AFCON to explain a major change to the competition, how Morocco and Senegal are competing to be the continental superpower and how Mo Salah is viewed by those in his home nation and continent after controversy at Liverpool.Plus, what is Pep Guardiola's Christmas diet for his Man City players, and how does it compare to Chris and Pat's from back in the day?Timecodes: 00:12 Villa's 10-match winning streak, with Guillem Balague (Euro Leagues) explaining how Emery turned this season around 23:10 Do United and Liverpool really need to buy to replace Bruno Fernandes and Alexander Isak? 32:50 Hearts are top of the Scottish Premiership at Christmas, so what will they do in January? 39:20 AFCON — Are Morocco the new African superpower? 45:00 AFCON — How much pressure is on Salah to succeed with Egypt, and how has the controversy with Arne Slot been viewed in Africa? 47:40 AFCON — Have FIFA driven changes to the tournament schedule, from every 2 years to every 4 years? 50:30 Pep Guardiola's 'hidden' Christmas message to Man City's playersCommentaries coming up this week: Tuesday 23rd — Arsenal v Crystal Palace — 20:00 — 5 Live Saturday 27th — Arsenal v Brighton — 15:00 — 5 Live Saturday 27th — Liverpool v Wolves — 15:00 — Sports Extra Saturday 27th — Chelsea v Aston Villa — 17:30 — 5 Live

This is the Monday Nightclub with Mark Chapman on the Football Daily podcast. Welcome to the Monday night club, Pat Nevin, Rory Smith and Chris Sutton, all here with us. Now, regular listeners will know our regular producer is a Villa fan and he tries to avoid putting Villa in the show for fear of cursing whatever good run they're on, but he can't avoid it tonight and he has an Astor Villa Christmas jumper on.

So we're going to start with Villa and where they are at who have beaten Manchester United for the second time at home in the league in 30 years. They have a 10-match winning streak in all competitions, which is their longest winning run as a top-flight club for 111 years. So I go bring Ian Balagay in a member of Euroleagues, Five Life Sport regular, because he's recently written a book on Emery at Villa. So this is The Rise of the Villains inside Una Emery's Aston Villa Revolution.

and before we get into Emory and what he does and how he's kept it going, my first question, Guillem, is, were you worried about potential book sales after six games of the season? I've done 11 books, and 10 of them until this one, they came out at the right timing, so I knew the season was going to be turned around completely, and I also hoped that that was the case. The serious point of that is that nobody panicked around the start of the season

because of Emery. I don't think Villar fans were panicking. I don't think there was a massive cut. Do you think they were? Yeah, yeah. It was a strange situation, really strange, because I went to Baltimore Heath when they were in the fourth

of those five games without a win and hardly scoring. And I wanted to celebrate the fact that the book had come out, but when I was in a foul mood, he told me of big time, for suggesting that perhaps he should change something, which is something I heard the fans say,

And around him, people were saying, maybe he should change something. And I suggested that and, oh, my God, he went in and it was very eye-opener. He went in saying, you come in here to listen, to see, basically we're saying, you have no opinion. But also, don't bring the negativity that there is in the outside world because this is a box, a little well that is closed and aromatic to all of that. Don't want any of that. He was in a full mode because he sensed that the team was flat, that the fans were flat, that there was disappointment and the discussion as well that perhaps the whole thing is over now.

So yeah, there was doubt and perhaps that's why the relief of the wins when they started coming. Okay, so before everybody else comes in then, has he changed anything in what he does? Forget tactics and players and setup and whatever. From that moment to where we are now, are you aware, have you sensed anything

that he has changed that he does? Is he quite a flexible man or not? Pepportillo has got an expression when you do things and they don't come off just put two cups of chocolate, not just one. It doesn't work in English. More of the same, basically, is what it means. And that's what he's done.

So his methodology is analysis, and that's what's taking him where he is now. So it wasn't a matter of changing that. It was a matter of giving it more. So what is it that it's failing? How can we change that? What is the word that we can put in? There was more of the same.

More of the same for many, it's a lot. So normal situation is a lot when he does three hour and a half video analysis three times a week, right? Three times a week. But he just wanted more of that. And they came out in the only way that they could adapting to the situation, adapting to some players not being in the best form, adapting to the fact that the market you were talking about the XG and how low it is,

they may be able to change that in January because they've started the season without fast wingers, without players that can make a difference in front in wide areas. And a striker that is doing a lot of work without the ball and helping all this, but perhaps not scoring at the level that he should. So there's that room for improvement. But while it wasn't happening, all that when I was doing is, all right, let me watch another video, let me see what's wrong, and let me just put it to the players. GM, do you have any sense, because I was slightly mystified, as I think a lot of people were,

by how poor Villas start was. Do you have any sense of why it was flat? Nobody tells you, looking back now, exactly what it was, but I think it was a mixture of things. Quite clearly, losing the Champions League spot, if you like, in the last game of the season against Manchester United, left everybody affected. Do you remember the look of Unaimedi at the end of the game, looking just to the horizon of the sign of an empty man? It gave him absolutely everything, but didn't reach the target that it looked like he was close to Aston Villa. On the way to the changing room, a lot of things came into his head

from the fact that his son, who had been with him for a couple of years, in the flat downstairs, was going to go to Real Union, so he wouldn't be with him, that Real Union went down, that the five draws a home, that the fact that the team seemed to have lost a little bit of energy at the end. And then he walked to the changing room and did something that was very, very unusual, which is the end of the book, and I'm not sure I should say it, but it was very unusual, something that had to do with his emotions. And then that seemed to have continued in the summer with Monchi going,

no big names coming in, Jacob Ramsey leaving, and that affected players and putting it out in the social media that it was affecting them kind of thing. All that put together perhaps was also the fact that now you have to go to the level that you were in, which is so high and after the summer it takes a while to get better. All of that meant that when I had

to analyse double the amount of time. When you talk to them, great position in the league, absolutely fantastic but I know how important the Europa League will be to them as well. They're in a brilliant position there. Also, we're talking about that difficult period. They've got over Christmas. They've got Chelsea and they've got

Arsenal, but January, it's seven games. And the FA Cup draws a stinker. It's a way it spurs, although some people would suggest that's not that much of a stinker at the moment. So does he prioritise will he think, with this group of players, I'll go for it all?

So it's quite clear that Europe has given him so much. It's 16 years in a row that he's been participating in European competition, and his dream, his ultimate dream is to win the Champions League. So Europe is everything. And of course, he has had a lot of experiences, as he says.

With that experience of the Europa League and the fact that he's won it, he's kind of implied, I can take you too close to winning it. You have to do the things that I want you to do. But for him, the bread and butter is the Premier League, is the one that guarantees you another European season. And an European season gives you better wages, prestige, the possibility of getting better players, long players, perhaps, like Ascension Rushford,

that may leave Aston Villa even more in the second part of the season, And those kind of things help. And so I would say certainly Premier League and Europa League are the priorities. We had a book signing last Thursday. And every two fans that came to sign, they were saying, a trophy, give us a trophy. And then we'll put you a statue.

Yeah, the trophy will give him the statue. But European football and the Premier League is what keeps him the continuity of doing what is doing. Guilla, a lot was made at the start of the season about Villa's inability to really strengthen the squad. you've obviously got to know who and I amory pretty well. How did he deal with that?

Is he one who just can ignore that and is he matter of fact and just gets on with what he has to work with and goes through that same process or is he one who, you know, was pretty fed up with what is achieved in terms of Villa since he's been there about wanting to make that next step

and, you know, was he frustrated with that? How did he handle that whole scenario? It all starts with what the owners did to him hand him over a white piece of paper and says, do whatever you want with the club. So he's the boss from the sporting point of view and bring some of the people that will help him, you know, maximize the potential of that.

But then, of course, he's very, very aware of the limits. They talk about it every day, and the limits are very, very obvious and cannot be escaped. It is what it is. So he will push in the way that he pushes Morgan Rogers, you know, carol and stick will just push Morgan to the end and then when he sees that he's almost about to break,

He will just put an arm around his shoulders. He will do the same with the football people, with Monchi, for instance. But it's clear that the first, the second, the third, the fourth choice didn't come this summer. So there was a bit of frustration, of course. But the thing that has made him, and not just him, I think the top managers do that, is adaptability. What is it that I've got? Okay, let's work on that.

And let's see if we can improve and let's see if we can get to the targets. So that's what he deals with. Does he push? Yeah. But eventually, once he demands what he thinks the club should get in terms of profile, then it's the job of Monchi, or now Roberto Olabe, and Damia to fight with the owners to get as much money as possible. But of course, as we said, with the limits of the regulations, which they try to disrupt, push on so it doesn't become the garden or the top six, and they can actually participate a bit more.

But at the moment, that's proven to be difficult. So, yeah, he understands what's going on. I've only interviewed him a couple of times, Guillem, but he's always struck me as quite different to a lot of the other managers in that he's quite introverted and quite shy. And I was talking to somebody actually in the match of the Davis yesterday who said, you know, he won't do or doesn't really want to do those,

you know, big sit-down interviews of this is how I work and this is my philosophy and so on and so forth. He sticks to the sort of contracted media interviews that he's got to do but won't sort of open himself up and I don't think that's that's not through being rude I think that's well he's shy is he

yeah that's the word and I go back to Thursday when we did the book signing as we started at somebody one of the staff of Astavilla said you know this is the first time he mixes fans with fans like what and he was because he felt a little bit perhaps

comfortable we've known each other for a long time it's a book that he's proud of but from the moment that he started to feel this wave of love and admiration and everything else that the fans were bringing to him. He had big eyes, and all he could say is, Merry Christmas. He didn't go much further than that.

And yeah, he's just completely uncomfortable in that situation. So he had promised he'd do it, so he's found a time for it. But the other thing that's interesting from that day, not only that he's shy, he's protected by Damia, by the owners, everybody's protecting him, so he can focus on what he's good at.

But for him to get one hour of his time in the bullring to sign books, he required 15 people from the club to help. The one who took the car to the car park so he could then live with his car. The one who took him with the van to the place, the security guy, the player liaison, Damia, it was just incredible. So it's partly down to the fact that they all want to protect him

and you won't see him walking around. But then is he, I mean, that to be honest, sounds like Chris's demands where he's doing an after dinner. But is that a, is he, when he's behind, the scene and working with the players, does he lose that shyness? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then he's in his environment.

Yeah, just to finish with the fans, for instance, when the first up the biller that he shouted on the pitch was because Damia said to him, look, we just won't a big game. You're in front of the microphone. Just shout out of the villa. So he went and did it. And then he's been thinking sometimes,

should I just, you know, do like all the managers do and punch to the air at the end of games? No, he's not me. But then you go to Bolimo Heath, and he would joke and he would talk and he would argue and he would just tell you what he thinks and he will push everyone and to do that

that energy you need to give a lot and you need to give a lot by being very present and very loud and to have opinions all the time and sometimes don't even let to others talk is the way he wants a completely different person I thought even when he threw his coat in the air

yesterday which was kind of quite flamboyant he had to unzip it first which I thought was quite which I thought was which I thought was quite nice, really. It is unusual, though, Chris, isn't it, to sort of have that introverted character in charge of a pre? I can't think of any others when I look at the rest of the Premier League managers

who, you know, who aren't kind of quite, well, a bit more gregarious the rest of them. Yeah, is Ruben Amram not a bit of an introvert? No, no, you're looking at me like, no, don't be silly. I mean, I don't think he likes doing lots of interviews, but he always manages to say something in an interview. Yeah, well, it's what you said. It's him being comfortable in his environment.

I mean, he's been a highly successful manager. I mean, he had the spell at Arsenal, which didn't work out. But, you know, other than that, he's, you know, all the clubs he's been at, you know, winning the Europa League. He's been hugely, hugely successful. So that's his space out on the training ground where, you know, that's what he's done for years. that's where he's, you know, Guillermo tell you better to me, that's where he's at his most comfortable. And then in other environments, that's not where, you know,

he feels that he can be free in that respect. But I think that that's pretty new. And then, Chris, you wouldn't recognize neither of you, but I'm about to tell you. He tries to get to spend as often as it can, even for a day or two. This Christmas, for instance, it will be just one day. And then he will meet a bunch of, in the vast country,

there's community of gastro communities, so friends that meet to eat. to cook and to eat and to drink. And at the end of that, especially in the Basque Country, they will sing bass songs. And he's the first one singing those bass songs. And he's with a cyclist and he's with a fishmonger and he's with people from different walks of life

where he's just to Naomi Medi. And there, he will lift the glass and he will drink the wine and he will sing the song. So he's shy and he's not shy. Wherever he feels comfortable, you can see he's real him. Guillaume, would you say that his kind of approach to the public side of it is different, now than it was at Sevilla

earlier in his career. Has he been burned a little bit by Arsenal and PSG? There was a time when he explained a lot of things and that was the Sevilla time for instance. After that, language has limited that so you see a little bit less of one night generally. And when

I say that in front of the fans he was saying Merry Christmas and Abde Bila and that was it. It's because the words don't come. Chit chat doesn't exist in his world in English because he still got the difficulty of it. When he was at Sevilla, he will just talk for hours in press conferences, and you will see perhaps a more relaxed person closer to the manager.

At PSG, he did a lot of good, and then, of course, he had these two knockouts against Barcelona and Real Madrid that made him think. At Arsenal, he realized that now what was needed at the time, and yes, he was heard by the experience, and he had a point to proof. What I find extraordinary, and I take the conversation a little bit further away, but is that having had all those experiences and having been at the peak of his career, He goes and changes the way he does things.

So all of a southern at Villarreal, he goes like, right, I cannot be Barthorandria Madrid with PSG. I cannot go to Seville and succeed in the Champions League, for instance. What's going on there? So he decides, ah, Pepo Ardiola is the way. I'm just going to be one student of his football, and I'm going to go that way. As you can see, there's a lot of thinking about his career, about football, about, and that's where, again, he's comfortable. But I find that extraordinary that he went like, forget what I've just done.

I'm going to get somebody to teach me how to play in a different way. This system that you see now, this consistency that you see now, this structure that you see now, succeeded at Villarreal, is doing it as Tom Villa, a little bit against the tide, because everybody seems to be going for crazy football at the moment. One of the things I was thinking about when you were talking about how managers come across in front of the press,

and I always think it's really strange, because I've rarely ever met a boss at any level who's the same with the press as he is with everybody else. Because once bitten twice shy to steal a lyric from a current song that's played quite a lot, you really can't take any chances with the press. And obviously, PSJ, that must have hurt a lot because there was various stuff. It's getting hammered in there. And you know you'll get it here as well.

So the more sensible thing is just to give a more limited part of your personality over to the press. I've seen it so many times. And then you just walk behind the screen, they walk off, and then they're laughing and joking and being yourself. It's an understandable and sensible fear of the press. they can do. Just a final one and we've talked about the video sessions and so on and so forth, Guillem. And in fact, we probably

talked about it on this show. You know, one of the strengths when he took over was this group of players that had underachieved and were willing to learn and wanted to go to the next level. And Matty Cash has been on and talked about those two-hour video analysis. When they struggled at the start

of the season, I wonder whether you were aware of whether there was any resistance from a group players who had started to be successful and had been in the Champions League and now in the Europa League of whether they were still wanting to buy in to the long video sessions because they had started to develop. The flatness, the emotional flatness was obvious. And when you are flat, you want to work a little bit less. We're lazy by nature. But there is a natural selection process in the team, in the United Emiris teams. The ones that don't buy it, the ones

that don't believe in what he's doing, the ones that get bored, the John Durant's of this world, they're not there anymore. The ones that are there is the ones that I'll ask you back. I mean, which one of those players were better when he arrived than now? I mean, they've improved because of him. So they know that they have to go through all of that. And it's interesting how he deals with different people in different ways, but he gets the best out of everyone. John McGinn, he will have a go every day two or three times. And John McGinn will take it. Sometimes we'll give it back. And if he over steps the mind, John McGinn will say, I'll meet you in the office, and he'll tell him, that's the relationship they've got.

As I said, with Morgan Rogers, they all love Morgan. He works so hard, and again, he pushes and pushes and pushes. And I think when I said that he was upset, he wasn't happy with Morgan Rogers against Manchester. I didn't score two goals. But then he will give him Carrot at the same time, and if he's not in, it's somebody else. So they know where they stand. They know they're going to work when they got to Bodim Mohith. They're not going to have a go of tea and share time with friends.

That's not what they do. It's NASA. So there are specialists for every part of their job, and they will get there and they will get better. For whatever, to do very well at Villa with England or jump into the next thing. But they have to go through it. It's just that, as I said, at the beginning, just everybody found difficulty to find that energy, which eventually they encountered. And that extra mile, that extra thing.

I mean, Stephen Warnock has told stories of having, they have Trackman, don't they, which they're using golf, but they have Trackman to measure how people deliver a free kick or a corner or whatever to go even further into angles, distances, so on and so forth, rather than we'll have a right foot to take this or a left. Why are you scowling at me for this?

No, I've not heard of this. Can you explain? I've not heard of this. Well, that's, yeah. So, Steve, so Trackman is a system that a golfer will put behind them. I've heard of Pac-Man. No, it's not Pac-Man. I knew you could say that.

And Trackman measures your, or tracks your swing and shows you different angles and pace and distance and so on and so forth. So golfers use that on the practice range. It is behind them all the time. And Stephen Warnet, Guillem, as far as I am led to believe, told us that Trackman is something that is used for Dead Ball delivery at Villa.

You know, it goes back to a lot, this is one of the many things that they do to remind everyone that there are no limits. The limits are in the head. So if there is a machine that shows you that actually you have piqued in you the way you run on the amount of sprains, they would show it to the players. You didn't do it last two weeks ago, but you're doing it now. In fact, you could do more.

And the fact that they have to work with that because they don't have the money to buy players is perhaps a lesson for the Premier League. It's a lesson that maximizing the potential of a player working with a player and individually and mentally and all those things, it's a better way to get a team to perform than just every six months. You know, listen to the fans wanting new faces and the managers, I suppose, as well.

And then, you know, coin in the air, see if it works with new people. But there are other ways. And Nastonville are disruptors, as we said earlier, in terms of how they're fighting the position in the Premier League, powerhouse, but also the disruptors in the way they're doing what they're doing.

They're doing it completely. against the tide and without the money of others. We will leave it there, Guyam. Thank you very much. So you see, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you all. Guillem Ballagay with us on the Monday nightclub. Is that all right, Chris?

No, I'm fascinated with track, man. I mean, surely it's quite easy to judge, though, because if a ball sails over the fence onto the Tamworth Road, then that's a black mark. You're speaking from experience, like Chris? Yeah, most probably. But I'm still trying to work out what use that is. really?

Is it, it'll be to do with whip or whatever, or kind of... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what, if it's whipped into a good area, that's good. Yeah, you know, good. But you can see that anyway. But the pace of it and all the rest of it,

I understand that it's a tiny, it's all those tiny little changes can make lots of different sports are doing that all the time. See, when he was talking there, all the words I was using, you know, and I would change one word, they would use Innovator as much as disruptor.

But it reminded me so much of, a long time ago, Sam Allardy's, when he started bringing new ideas and to get improvements, weird improvements at players that you thought, they'd seen everything you could from him. And he went to America and he was getting ideas from them. So it's an arm's race.

And every one of these things I think, Chris, you can use, if they use, and they get you one more goal of season, it's probably worth it. Yeah. I wanted, I wanted to ask him if the fishmonger and the cyclist was the same person. That sounds like honestly, doesn't that sound like

a lovely thing to be able to do every few weeks, that. Yeah. Do you know what I think? We do food as well in the Basque Country. It goes to the Basque Country with some good friends who are obviously culinary experts and just enjoy it, doesn't it?

It's perfect life as far as I'm concerned about it. I think there is an element with Emery and weirdly the bad start plays into it. It does feel like a coaching triumph, the fact that Villa a third, the fact that they're three points off. It feels like he has, he faced a problem and he has worked out a solution to it and it's really hard not to be impressed by his

by like the deft touch that he has as a manager. I think that's what really stands out about Emery. Moving on to our next subject which is sort of linked to what Guillem said about Una Emery and Trackman and using everything possible to improve the players that you've got rather than

buying them in. With Bruno Fernandez and Alexander Isak injured and one may be a lot longer than the other in Isak, Fernandez could be a month, but ESAC could be a lot longer. Do you use what you've got at your disposal, Pat? Or do you look to the transfer market?

Bearing in mind, both clubs are being linked with Antoine Semenio this evening. I wouldn't be surprised if both clubs would be looking to the transfer market, but Manchester United in particular, I think, you know, looking at, it's been a really good period there. I mean, had they managed to,

I mean, we have the armed position in the league now is really quite good, considering where they've been for quite some time. You know, and a little bit unlucky there, I thought they were a better side again, to Asson Villa for most of the first half you'd be sitting talking tonight about them in 29 points level with Chelsea and Liverpool

and they managed to get that game so there's not massive amounts wrong that they've not improved they are improving but your Manchester United you keep improving you don't say all right well just about hold on with this can't think that way and they've got a couple of players I've got away at Afcon as well

they've got three away in him and Buomo and Amad and Masrawe and of course in Buomo been very very important to him as well and you stick But Fernandez is different, isn't it? He's a bit special. He's been the fulcrum of the team for such a long, long time. And with all the games coming up, that's a tough one.

But it's a struggle to replace him. It really is a struggle to replace him. Chris, what would you do? I totally agree with Pat. How do you replace Bruno Fernandez? How much would it cost to replace him? I don't think there's any trying to think of the other leaders there are at Manchester United. And there aren't many.

You know, it's quite a young squad. I mean, you look at their bench yesterday. But, I mean, I suppose the other strong characters within that group, you'd say, you know, Casamiro, maybe Lissandro Martinez, who came on. So I think Bruno Fernandez is, I mean, Manchester United are going to have to spend a hell of a lot of money to replace his quality and his leadership. With Liverpool, I think it's really interesting because Isak really feel for him. I didn't agree with what he did in the summer. He's had a really difficult start. He's struggled.

but, you know, the beauty for Arna Slot is he has Eckertique, but then if anything happens to Eckertique, then, you know, he will be in a bit of bother. But they still have Keezer, who doesn't get a, you know, a regular game. And they talk about playing Salah centrally when he comes back from Afcon. They've got Gakpo. And I just wonder now whether this will be the start for Florian Vert, really, who's had a really disappointing start.

But where he, because of the injuries that Liverpool had or have and their squad being decimated as such whether he will you know really get a run of games where he can build that consistency and that ability which we all know he has will really shine through but of course you know ESAC's a you know a central striker but

they're going to miss him it'll be one one to watch but can they can they go and spend I don't think they can go and spend a fortune on another striker because when ESAC does come back they can't have three competing. Yeah I think that's the issue I don't think Liverpool can go and sign I don't think they would go and sign like

another out-and-out number nine, whether they could go and get someone like to Menio who can play across the front, that would be the sensible play, assuming that you'd probably want to add one of those in the summer anyway. So you can see them doing that if there's the right market opportunity,

as everyone calls it. But then, as Chris says, they've got, they do have people who could step in for Eckertiki to at least kind of protect him, give him a bit of arrest occasionally. Slot has said several times, you know, he's brought Eckertiki off

on 60, 70 minutes, because that is when Eckertiki needs to come off at this point in his career. Fernandez, I mean, Fernandez, it depends how long the injury keeps him out for, but if it's a couple of months, I don't think United will go and spend to offset that. And it's also quite a big test of whether Ruben Amarim is, this sounds harsh than it's meant to, but like telling the truth about Cobby Mayno, because he's always said that Cobby Mayno is competing with Fernandez for a spot, Flanders is injured. And then obviously Manu was injured yesterday, but if he's back and Fernandez isn't there for six weeks, then surely you just play one of the most talented English players around, your English players around. Why are you doubting what he said, Rory? What do you mean telling the truth?

I don't quite get... Amarim's defence has always been it's very tough for Cobby because Cobby's natural kind of position is the one occupied by Bruno. But I'm not sure that is entirely... I'd have thought if Maynus is talented as everybody says he is

and if Amarin believes that he's as talented as everybody says he is, then he would find a spot for him in the team even if it wasn't in direct competition with the captain. So logically, so what I'm saying, logically, this should be the replacement for Fandes,

when he has returned to fitness is Cobby Maynoe, surely. But he won't have... It's a bit like the Mo Salah situation with Arna Slott. I don't get why people think that these situations become personal. What's... I don't know if it's personal. I don't know whether Ruben Amram genuinely isn't playing Manu because the only position he thinks he can play in

is the one that is occupied by Bruno, or whether basically he isn't quite convinced by him, which is a perfectly legitimate thing for a manager to think of a player. I just think this will be an interesting test of it. You're talking about the position that Bruno plays, but he's changed about, hasn't you? A little bit recently, because he's playing almost as the one of the two of the striker

a couple of times, but he's moved back from that at the most central midfield road. Now, in the central midfield, it should be allegedly a wee bit easier to replace because the expectation of creation isn't as much back there. I just wonder, one of the things when you get a big player goes out, and same for Isaac, the same for him,

as well. It does leave space. I think Chris Euber can allude into that with Virz that, you know, when the big player that the ball always goes to suddenly isn't there really well, everyone turns and looks at the next guy, okay, Ryan, can you do it? You get more of the ball, you get more than good places, there's more expectation from you, and then the really good players rise to that. And, you know, I don't know if Mason Mount can do that for Manchester United, which may be possibly good, I think he's been quite good recently. And almost certainly, Vitz is the one you're looking for to, you know, adapt from being

a bit player to being central and I think I think he would like it I'd like the idea of being more crucial to the team I'd argue and maybe I'm wrong and being terribly biased but I'd argue at Liverpool there's more natural successes for that I mean he's that's been very obviously what's happened is horrible for him

but I mean there's no point pretending he's had a great start with Liverpool career he hasn't but if you're looking at kind of the players who take responsibility there even disregarding Sala you'd say this season sobbers lie the verts would be the natural kind of next one to step up. Eckatee is in great form you have kind of contenders there. Curtis Jones in the last three weeks has been outstanding.

With United, it is kind of Bruno, and if it's not Bruno, it's not really clear to me, apart from Mbuemo, who's also not around, who it is, maybe Cunia, I guess, would be the... In the Premier League for United this season, Bruno Fernandez has most goal involvements, most assists, most possession one, most touches, most crosses, says a lot about the wing packs, most expected goals, most expected assist, most chances created, most passes into the final three. third, most passes into the box, most progressive passes, most through balls. Then I make an argument then he gets the ball most.

Well, yes, that's very, yeah, yeah, yeah. He gets the ball all the time and then you're not looking at, if you've got a choice between giving it to Mason and Mount or give it to Cunia or give it to Bruno, you're giving it to Bruno most of the thing just now. Now, those players might get more opportunities. Now, this is coming from a bit of bitterness from me. You might be able to just about hear it in the background, okay. Who did the ball always go to rather than you?

Is this what it's about? Exactly. Exactly. If you play, particularly if you're stuck out wide in one wing and the other winger is getting the ball all the time. You try not to be too better about it. You're thinking, give me more of the ball and I'll create more goals, giving the ball. And I watched it with him. I mean, I remember watching it years ago there with William was great for Chelsea, right?

But the ball went ahead in Hazard. It looked as if it was a slope in the pitch. It just kept on going the same way all the time. And it does happen with him. And understandably so because Bruno is, you know, he's trustworthy, you believe him, he'll do it. He'll give you the numbers. But when he's not there, somebody else is going to be there

and they've got to step up to it. Come on, Pat, who was it? I'm racking my brains. Who was on the other one? Just say it. No, no, well, not bitter towards a player, but I remember one's playing for Scotland, thinking, I know Davey Cooper's brilliant.

I really do. He's just fantastic Davey Cooper. And do you know, I'd probably pass it to him before I'd pass it to me as well, but I quite like the ball and again. Is that the reason why Shira got more goals, Chris? Because the ball always went to him. Totally.

And Larson and funnily enough Every striker I paid Yeah It's funny That From a small village From a small village on the banks of the River Nile

Everybody call me Mohammed But you know Short name or nickname They call me more To the biggest stages of world football Goes for the Colonel Man Salah Sala is more than just a player

He's an icon a symbol a king It's six still and Sala rips off his shirt Mohammed Sala represents a dream for Egyptians for Muslims

for Africans More than just a football player He gave us hope I'm Kelly Kate This is Sporting Giants Mo Sala Listen on BBC sounds This is the Monday nightclub

With Mark Chapman On the Football Daily podcast Arsenal and Hearts are both going to be top at Christmas and that means, Pat, 32 years since a last non-old firm were top of the Scottish Premiership at Christmas, 32 years. It is extraordinary. There's lots of reasons for it. Obviously the finances, the old firm teams have had over everybody else makes a big part of it.

But 32 years. You've got all the possibilities of getting lazy in that period the time but no they've always generally managed to be there so for hearts to stick at it keep on going and be there and there's been a couple of times this season quite recently thought okay the bubble might have burst and i had chris talking about it the other week there as well and you were right it was a real moment to think right now's your test you seem to me have passed it don't they particularly the game against rangers there and there seems like an absolute fearlessness about that heart side now i mean i've not got a table in front of me a bit of these six points how did celtic

But Celtic, I've got a game in a hand. So their hearts are on 41 from 18, Celtic 35 from 17, Motherwell 30 from 18, Rangers 29 from 17. Yeah. I mean, it is incredibly hard to stick with, you know, the teams that are, I've got a lot more money, a lot more background, and you have got the knowledge that they can do it, and you think you can do it, but they know they can do it,

all that sort of stuff. But in their favour, to some degree, and it's taking nothing away from hearts, it's the madness that you've had at Celtic Rangers this season, That's kind of helped a wee bit. That takes nothing away from Hartman's Lodian and from a dedicated hibernus about this is Hart. Oh, no, yeah. That's what I thought I'd go to you first on this.

They've beaten Hart, both Celtic and Rangers, home and away this season. Chris. Yeah, and all the talk about Tony Bloom and Jamestown analytics, maybe the manager doesn't quite get enough credit. Derek McKinness, his knowledge of Scottish football. And they, I don't say they're similar to Arsenal,

but Derek's very good. good at knowing what his teams are. And, you know, the hearts set plays have been phenomenal this season. I don't know whether you saw the game against Rangers, but you certain know what's coming from hearts and set plays. You've got to be switched on. Stuart Finley, who scored the header. I think that was his third or fourth of the season.

I think hearts have scored nine from corners. They are brilliant at what they do. They have three absolute athletes in the middle of the park. I mean, they're not necessarily brilliant technicians, but Cammy Devlin has been sensational from the little Australian. for them in the middle of the park. And up front, they've got players who can really make a difference. Kizzeredis, Shanklin and Braga.

Braga wasn't at his best yesterday. But, you know, he's always got something about it and where you feel like something's going to happen. Kizzeridis, you know, was good yesterday set plays and looked like something was going to happen off him. And Lauren Shankland, you know, he's been brilliant for a number of years now. So they've got, you know, Derek McKinness knows what they are. They've scored the most goals.

I think they've kept the most clean sheets. and they're deservedly top of the table. And people are saying, well, can this continue? Well, why not? And the other thing McKinness has said, Rory, I'm always hearing we're only at the top because the team's not being as good as they normally are. But our points tally is actually around

where a team at the top of the table should be. And also Chris has mentioned goals for and goals against. He said, I expect us to get better as we go along. We want the games to get bigger and bigger. And for hearts to stay relevant, we just need to keep chalking off the wins. And I think those comments, off the back of, they have wobbled,

but they've turned it round again, have to both be huge positives if you're a heart's fan. Yeah, the fact that they had that little wobble after they beat Celtic at home in what, October-ish? I was at the game, I can't remember when it was, but I was definitely there.

It happened. They did drop a few points. They took two or three weeks after that, and you thought, well, maybe the emotion of that Celtic game has cost them a little bit. But they've been able to dig in again and go again. And the other thing that, and this is a quote in Chris Sutton,

which is it feels like a real low point for me. But there's every chance they go out in January and they add two or three more. And they suddenly have the debt to kind of cover for the fatigue or for the tiredness that will at some point set in. It's a long season. And obviously then when it divides and you're playing the top six, it gets exponentially harder for a team like hearts in a way that maybe it doesn't for Celtic and Rangers when they are what we expect Celtic and Rangers to be.

So I think, I mean, I think hearts are in it now for the duration, whether that's enough to see them over the line. I don't know, but they have shown that they've got the kind of perseverance to stay the course, I think. On the adding then, Pat, if they were to add, you know, two or three in January, look, we've talked about their analytics and recruitment, which means they'll be doing stuff that will surprise people and looking in different markets and so on and so forth. But given their position and given the way Derek McKinnis is talking, do you think they have the ability this January to do what Rangers and Celtic have traditionally managed to do,

which is, if they wanted to, cherry pick a couple of the best players from premiership rivals. They probably would have the ability to do that. I don't think they will, though. Because your Celtic and Rangers have looked at that market over the years. Do I think the current Hart's model is going to look at that market? Not sure.

They will not care a jot what market is. As long as the analytics say what they want them to say, they will go for that individual. And that's possibly the scariest thing for, Celtic and Rangers because the acquisitions for Celtic and Rangers haven't been great over the last year or two. They really haven't been great at all in comparison

what they had been in the past. Whereas you look at, you know, Harts may be still at the very, very beginning of what could be something special. And I think a lot of they feel the same about, you know, the Brighton model and how they've managed to get players in time and time and time again and make incredible acquisitions.

There is an argument they are basically the best in the business at it. So if Harts are, you know, you know, piggyback in the business. the back of that, there is every opportunity that has to get someone, will they take them from the other teams in the league? Why would they bother? They'll just look around. Well, yeah, and you bear in mind that certainly one of the most expensive

signings they made in the summer at year, the Brazilian midfielder, has barely played. And I think he was a record at the time. I think, I don't know whether they've subsequently broken it, but there's, I think there's money, there's money to spend by, you know, not Premier League standards necessarily, but there's money to spend that can make a difference in the Scottish Premiership. So you did, And Chris, again, I'm just echo in Chris's words, back at him. You'd expect Celtic and Rangers to go and spend in January, but you might expect hearts to spend smarter.

We'll talk Afcon next, which got underway last night, the host Morocco, with a 2-0 victory over Comoros in front of over 60,000 in Rabat. African football journalist Maheer Mezahi joins us from the tournament. And this now takes, Mahi, their run of successive victories to 19. So what is this consistency

and this success built on? Evening. Good evening, everyone. It's built on a few different things. The first is that Morocco are a very talented squad of players with a coach that knows his players very well as well.

So, of course, we can talk about Ashraf Hakimi, who's finished top seven, I believe. In the recent Ballandoor voting, we can talk about a Manchester United fullback and Osir Masrawi, Neif Akkad, Azdin Munahi, Abraham Diaz, Israel, Madrid. These are very good players. And on top of that, they've been playing together now for five, six, seven years,

and they're all really in the prime of their careers. And this coach, as I said, is perfectly familiar with, you know, their strengths and their weaknesses. But on top of all of that, I think for fairness sake, we also have to point out that they haven't really had a particularly tough string of matches. The toughest opponents during this streak have been Tunisia, Bahrain, and then Gabon and Gabon. But they've played, you know, Central African Republic several times, Lazutu several times, Nigerer several times. And only two of those 19 matches were actually played away from home, one against Zambia and one against Gabon. So a combination of factors, but still, it's an impressive feat. And they come into there, and obviously there's a few years between when they were so successful at the World Cup to now.

But that success in the last World Cup must have given them a platform to where they are now and a belief, you know, semi-finalists four years ago. You can't quantify that kind of experience for it and what it does for not only to lift the profile of the players, but the entire nation. I think it has been a double-edged sword. When I speak to Moroccan journalists here, they tell me that their premature exit at the 2003 African Cup of Nations in Cote d'Ivoire last time around

was perhaps due to the fact that they wanted to stick to what got them to the semifinals of that World Cup too much and stick to the players that got them to that World Cup too much. So what's happened over the last two years is that the coach Walidigieg has had to be a little less stubborn, implement a little more changes, and take a little more accountability, put people around him that question his trust.

choices a little more. And that's why I think they're really sharp at the moment. Is there a sense that Morocco now is kind of Africa's superpower or are there teams in the tournament and I'm sort of thinking Senegal who might dispute that? Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think those are the top two. One A and one B, however you want to rank them. Where Morocco sort of takes a little bit of a lead is when you consider, you know, infrastructure, that the power of the federation. And then the overall success, really, of the women's sides who got to, you know, Afcon finals recently, the under 20 FIFA World Cup victory. of their youth national team as well.

When you take it as a holistic package, Morocco, I think, are slightly above Senegal. But Senegal, in terms of quality of player and depth, even their goalkeepers, they all play regular football in top five European League. Senegal are very, very impressive as well. They've kind of done that, haven't they, without, Morocco does feel like a blend of, from the outside,

of kind of, obviously you have a little bit of diaspora influence in the team, which they've tapped into, like, a lot of African nations have. But they also, as you say, they have these facilities for generating, that domestic, homegrown Moroccan players. Senegal feels a little bit more like a more traditional model, whereas Marocco seemed to be the first,

maybe Egypt or Algeria or someone would take exception to this, but the first African nation to kind of take that industrialized approach that Western Europe has and say, look, we've got just as much raw talent. We're going to start churning it out. I think I agree overall with that sentiment, Roy. I would say that even Senegal draw from the diaspora as well. And Senegal, it's almost, I think, unhealthy,

the industry of academies that exist in Senegal, whether Generation Food, GMBars, Dakar Sacri Kerr, what they do is that they attract investment from European clubs, so Generation Food has a partnership with Mets and France. Mets will give them the money to operate to the academy, and then Mets will have the right of first refusal to any of the top talents that come out of the academy

every single year. Generation Futs will touch some of that trickle-down money, but it's essentially a percentage of what Mets will make with resale values of players like Sadiomane, Ismaila Sarr, Pat Matarsar. It almost feels like, I don't want to be like too political, but it almost feels like what happens, you know, across many different minds on the African continent where raw resources are extracted and then refined and sold for, you know, multiples of what it's originally worth. But Morocco, I think, has a healthier system that they are forming players in an academy

over here. The academy is a public academy, Hamatix Academy, but also a lot of these players are, you know, also blooded into the National League and then the clubs are quite strong as well and I think it's a little bit more of a healthy ecosystem. Is the pressure on them as hosts and having not won this since 1976? The pressure is especially on the coach

Walidur Greggie. I've asked this to every single Moroccan journalist I speak to. I say, okay, what's the result that ensures that Walitur Greggie stays on for the next six months for the 2020s for World Cup? Consider the fact that we're talking about somebody that took them to the semifinals, the first African or Arab nation to ever go

to the semifinals of a World Cup four years ago. Everybody says he has to win it. The most lenient will say he has to get to the final. So these are very, very high standards. Yeah, absolutely. And part of that is also because they believe they have his replacement lined up. His name is Tarek, Tsikwi, former FC Porto Owinger. He just helped Morocco win the Arab Cup.

He helped them win the African Nations Championship, the local version of the African Cup of Nations. And then he also won the bronze medal at the 2024 Paris Olympics. So that pressure is actually more on Waleder Greggie than I think the players or anybody at the federation. So continuing the pressure line then, how much pressure is on Mo Salat? But it's coming from within. It's coming from himself because he holds himself to such a high standard. And I think he understands that if he doesn't get this trophy,

his legacy is never going to be complete in Egypt and across Africa. I think he understands that and he holds himself to that standard. It sucks that he succeeds in a generation of players that won three consecutive a cup of nations on a try in 2006, 2008, 2010. it sucks that some of those players were the nicest, kindest people, damai guides of sorts in Egypt, not to be blasphemous, but players like Abu Trika, for example. But Salah, again, he wants to reach that level.

And so I think he knows that this is probably the last African Cup of Nations where he's going to be at his physical prime. People are already doubting that he's maybe lost a touch of speed. It's also an opportune time for him because leaving Liverpool now, he needed to get away from there. I think it was very, very toxic. And now coming to the Egyptian national team, this is a great time to prove everybody at Liverpool wrong and to prove himself right.

How has he been viewed across Africa, Mo Salah, with the whole Liverpool fallout? Yeah, I think he's been covered. I think he's been protected. And me, as a journalist, I think it's been, there's an element of overreaction. There's an element of overprotection. I think a lot of the criticism is actually genuine, is actually correct, that Salah is self-centered, that he does place himself sometimes over the club. But I think what we need to include in that coverage,

is a little bit of context because the context can humanize him. This is a player that I was talking to Simon Hughes of the Athletic just yesterday. And he was saying, you know, if you talk about iconic Liverpool players like Kedi Daglisha or Stephen Gerard, they represent Liverpool as a city. But they don't really represent the UK. They don't really represent Anglican Christians. Muhammad Salah, he has that element to him where he's sort of a representative of Egypt, 120 million people, of Islam, of the Arab world.

He never really asked for it. And so everything that he does is always scrutinized. And as a result, he's erected this sort of security perimeter around himself as a person. And he, as a result, often has to prioritize himself over a club, over his own national team. And I can remember the episode prior to the 2018 World Cup or the Egyptian camp are in Chechnya. And Ramzan Kadir of, you know, the dictator invites them over for a dinner. And he's taking his photo opportunities, as he always loves with celebrities. And Salah was furious.

And he threatened to retire internationally because of this because his PR took a huge hit. So he has to do that, whether it's with a national. national team or with his club, he understands that if he got to the level that he is at today, it's because he's been self-centered. And so I think we have to sort of humanize him and understand the pressures that he's dealing with to analyze properly, like some of the reactions that he's had. Can I just ask you before we let you go about the tournament is going to move to every four years from 2028? It's taken place every two years since 1968 and that the CAF president says the move will help achieve sustainable, financial.

independence. What does he mean by that, first of all? And has it really been moved every four years because the clubs were moaning about releasing players every two years? No, it's been moved every four years. And this is my analysis. This is me reading between the lines and basing it on what the CAF president, Dr. Patrice Miceppe was saying, because FIFA were pushing him to do that. And we know FIFA have wanted to do this for a very long period of time. And it seems like CAF finally caved in. What he means by securing our financial future is that he plans on erecting erecting an African Nations League now. It's going to take place yearly, starting from 2029. It's copying the European model. I read recently that Asia are going to be doing something

similar as well. And what he's told us is that FIFA are going to throw the weight of the institution behind CAF to try and help secure deals, whether that's endorsements or broadcasting deals or whatever the case may be. The thing is, I don't trust Gianni Infantino. He's the same person that came and said, you know, we're going to do an African Super League and every single club and there was going to make $20 million. Like, what happened? We ended up having some kind of prototype for one year with eight teams instead of the 20 teams, and then it just fell flat on his face because this is a person that does not understand

the realities of African football. He thinks he does. He thinks he's African African, he thinks he's whatever, Asian, whatever, he thinks he's all kinds of things. He doesn't understand it. This African Cup of Nations is a cash cow. It's a competition that's on the ascendancy. I don't understand why they've made this decision.

Everybody is extremely frustrated with it, and it seems like it's just a decision that was made by FIFA and signed off on by CAF. And I think eventually, eventually we will return to a two-year Afghan, but we're going to suffer a bit, I think, from 2028 to on. I mean, presumably an African Nations League is being brought in because that fits in within international break. Is that what it boils down to? That's exactly it.

But, I mean, the way that it was explained to us, and details have always been very hazy, as always, with the Super League or this current African Nations League, but they're saying there's going to be six teams in North Africa, 16 teams in East, 16 in West, and 16 in South. That's not really like the concept of a nation's league. The reason why a nation's league is so successful is that you get, you know, tears of, you know, the best ranked teams playing against one another, the middle. It's not based on geography, you know.

So this is going to make the continent larger than it is. We're not going to have as much cultural exchange. Yes, it's going to cut down on travel a little bit and matches are going to be streamlined and played very quickly. But I don't think it really follows the ethos of a nation's league in that sense. So again, details are very hazy. Nobody's quite happy with it at the moment. And I don't think this decision will ultimately benefit African football. I think it's going to benefit FIFA.

Thank you very much for coming on. We will talk to you soon, hopefully, and during the course of this and at the World Cup. So thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Mahe-Mahazahi. Pep Guardiola's Manchester City of 1-7 on the spin.

However, he's not quite in the festive spirit. He made them come into training the day after they beat West Ham. And he also says he's going to weigh the players before Saturday's game at Forest. Plenty of Manchester City players taking the quality street back at the moment. I would have thought I mean surely every club weighs their players on a regular basis

don't they part? I'm sure they do they must do I mean the medical sides are the they're not just weighing I would suggest that is the lowest tech thing they look at there's other things to look at more than that you wonder with Pep and

with most managers is what they're saying a message to someone specifically and it's just thrown out there as if we're going to look at them all Who's your money on them, Pat? If you, who do you think? That's aimed at.

I don't think we should be, we should be trying to body shame Manchester City players. Dangerous. This is potentially like a problematic area, Chris. Here's another possibility then. You know, they've just won and cruised there against it. West Ham, wasn't it? An absolute cruise.

And they look as if they're back and they look almost like real Manchester City again at last. The last thing he wants is them to feel we're there. We've got there. You've got to say, use this world advisedly you've got to stay hungry every single possible way and that's what he's kind of aiming it isn't he to me to say right oh here don't relax now you're on you're on the absolute shoulder of arsenal you've worked really really hard to get there it's taking a long time to get there now no easing off and okay I'll mention food but as it food is it absolutely

everything do not ease off in anything in any attitude and I think it's possibly an analogy as much is a wider message, Chris. Did he bring this up on his own accord, Pep? Or was this? Well, it was from

that, that was from the press conference afterwards. So, yeah. The question will not have been Pep, you don't know

your players. No. It might have been what, will you do, it will be, it will have been something along the lines of

will you give them time off over Christmas? Right. I would have thought. Yeah, I mean, it's just, I mean, look, every,

every year, He'd manage it, it'd have been the same. I mean, you know, we don't want to sort of, you know, harp onto the way you and Mark think that, you know, the players are going to have sort of six pints, you know, a bottle of wine, you know, a couple of glasses of sherry, a bit of Black Forest Gatto on Christmas Day and, you know, and rock up on Boxing Day

and going to be overweight. Players, you know, know how to look after themselves. But there'll be, they'll be, I suspect, I mean, even at the end of my career, you know, you were weighed regularly. and the old body fat test and what have you said they'll be doing all you know

that sort of stuff it's nothing new which is why I'm a little bit a little bit confused about how this has come out into the public arena really it's a good point I don't know if any of you remember the former Man City fullback Michael Richards do you remember him?

Yes well I don't know what happened to him but yeah he don't he don't he don't is he playing in ball a lead or something at the moment I don't know what he's doing he's very quiet But he said that the day that he always, he once told me that the day, like, he dreaded most was when they brought out the calipers. And he relied on his personal relationship with the doctor

to what it's 10th. Like it's 10th the calipers. But they do the saliva testing now, don't know? That's the other thing is that they, I think a lot of clubs every day, you will go in and you will have, like, a swab done immediately. And it's meant to show, like, how well you slept, how well hydrated you are.

And I presume it can detect the presence of, like, caramel barrels or something. Like, it can tell which one. you're a hazelnut man that sort of thing do we think Chris are you a where do you stand

on the kind of selection box sweets are you are celebrations are your heroes you're 21street you roses I'm more savoury really

I've never been a sweet guy when you came up with the six pints two bottles of wine a couple of glasses of sherry and some Black Forest Gatto

was that your Christmas before the scales were introduced at the end of your career Well Black Forest Gatto is going but you don't really see them anymore. You don't, no, you don't. I'm quite sad about that. They had,

what was it the other thing? Remember the old Vianetta things? Yes? No? Yeah. You still don't see them anymore. Why not? You do? You do? My kids love Vionetta. Yeah. I'm not. Yeah. Well, yeah. I think it's the poshish dessert imaginable. Yeah. Here's the one thing you do forget about players and

it really happens because it happened to me terribly. Before I played football, I really like chips and I can never remember having a chip in my entire career. But Pat, you have literally no body fat. didn't at the time. Actually, I did have a weight problem during my career. I just couldn't put enough on. Right. I used to

have double meals. This is lovely. This is lovely, Pat. I think Mark Chapman knows you an apology. Something he said a few weeks back. What? I said during my career. What did I say about part a few weeks back? Well, you spoke in general about sports

people and, you know, you sort of tired everybody with the same brush it. Well, what was it? Four, four Four points. What did you say? Four pints? It wasn't like years ago. Did you not say that? Can I give you an absolute, can I give you an honest one to back you up? Yes, please. Absolutely. No, I'm back in Chris up. I have never had a pint of beer in my life, ever in my life, right?

So this kind of thing that always surprises people. And I'm really, really happy that this is frozen in front of me just now, because you don't see what I'm doing right now. What is that? He's drinking an alco pop. Yeah, what is that? I'm going to say iron brew. It's a shot of iron brew. Okay. Have you had chips since you stopped playing? Yeah, but it's a really weird thing because if you get so used to not doing it, like the idea of crisps or something like that

is totally and utterly alien. But you'd have done it before you played, but you're so used to the idea. I don't know if it's working in professional footballer chappas. I know, I mean, a pint and a packet of Chris is one of the greatest pleasures of my life, which maybe says more about me than anything else. And we will leave it there.

Thank you very much, the three of you. Merry Christmas. Come on for some chips and crisps. Well, when we're back of the new year I'll have the callipers ready for you. Yeah, I look forward to that. Yeah, I won't. Chris, Rory, Pat, thank you.

This is going to be the focus of some pretty serious heart-nosed cricket over the next few days. He drives into the offside. This will be his hundred. Well play Joe Root, England's finest. Runs! Two, I was going to get back again.

Jeez, swoosh. Sorry, settle down, Tuthers. Sorry, Ray. Oh, I'm living every ball of this. Listen to the TMS podcast. Every Day of the Ashes with BBC Sounds.