Football Daily - Monday Night Club: Palace make history & Vardy bows out

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Mark Chapman is joined by Chris Sutton, Rory Smith and Shay Given to discuss Saturday's FA Cup final. Crystal Palace captain Joel Ward joins the podcast to reflect on lifting the cup - the first major trophy in the club's 164-year history - in his 13th and final season at Selhurst Park. They also ask why Erling Haaland passed up taking Manchester City's penalty and whether Jack Grealish has a future at the Etihad after being left on the bench on Saturday, as well as paying tribute to Jamie Vardy after he signed off at Leicester with 200 goals in 500 games.Topics: 00:21 - Initial FA Cup final reflections 05:38 - Joel Ward on Palace's first major trophy in 164 years 17:44 - How do Palace keep hold of their best players? 21:09 - Why didn't Haaland take City's penalty? 27:36 - Is Jack Grealish done at City? 37:25 - 500 and out for Jamie Vardy at LeicesterBBC Sounds / 5 Live commentaries: Wed 2000 Europa League Final - Tottenham Hotspur v Man Utd Sat 1700 UEFA Women’s Champions League Final - Arsenal v Barcelona Sun 1600 Premier League final day

BBC Sounds music radio podcasts. The Football Daily Podcast with Mark Chapman. Welcome to the Monday Night Club. Rory Smith, Chris Sussan and Shea Given are with us this evening. Obviously everybody's meant to be impartial but everybody loves an underdog winning so did the FA Cup final give you a nice warm feeling Rory? It did, I was there, it was brilliant, it was great, it was a great day, fantastic for Palace, I thought they played really smartly but their fans are amazing and to see that kind of emotion, that genuine joy was really genuinely heartwarming Chapters. Did did it make you smile show?

Yeah I don't know I suppose the football purists and the romance of the FA Cup and all that sort of stuff in the history of course of Crystal Palace never won a major trophy it was it was it was a special day I was there as well Rory and it was a special day for them Crystal Palace fans who deserve special mention. From the first whistle to the last, they were truly immense behind their team. And yes, Crystal Palace rode their luck at times. They should have been sending off Haleddin de Kepelny as you mentioned already.

But again, the final part of the game, I thought, said they were all too predictable and couldn't find a way through. So there's lots to get through I suppose but at the same time in the cold air today and the romance of the FA Cup I think it's a fantastic story. There is loads to get through on both sides of the coin here with both sides. As I say Joel Ward will join us in the next 10 minutes or so to properly look at it from the Crystal Palace side of things but I was there and Rory was there and Shay was there. Where were you Chris? It was a trophy day in Scotland, so I listened to the to Five Live on the way across from Glasgow to Edinburgh where I did 606, gotta say brilliant listen, brilliant brilliant listen and I loved the Palace story. I did

for the reasons that the guys have said, you know, Crystal Palace haven't won a major trophy. And you think about the sort of older, the older Crystal Palace fan who probably thought this day would never come, the sort of, you know, the families going to the games. And that's a moment they will remember forever. You had in the early 90s, didn't you, Palace running Manchester United close, and then the Alan Pardew final. And then you thought, well, it'll probably never happen.

And then all of a sudden they get over the line and it was brilliant. And every player now, their name will be etched in Crystal Palace history. Do you know what? Just quickly, Chapters. So obviously, the FA Cup has the Matthews final in 1953 when Stanley Matthews wins it for Blackpool. And then you've got the Gerrard final in 2006 because of that incredible strike.

I feel as though Alan Pardue doesn't quite deserve that same status because he did a dance. I don't think that... But that is what that final is known as. I'm not comfortable with that and I think maybe we should change it. Okay, but if you talk. Can we call this the Eze final? The Eze final, the Eze deserve it to be his final more than Alan Pardue. Or would you call it the Henderson final?

Oh good shout, Chaper, stand up for the keepers, I don't mind that. Well come on to him as well in a minute. Interestingly, Chris talks about the generations and those fans at Chris the Pius who may never think this day has happened. I don't know Rory if you read, there was a story in the Athletic today on the story behind the Tifo that the Palace fans unfurled pre-match which was of a father hugging his two sons and that was when Darren Ambrose scored a goal at Wembley I think and the dad in the intervening years had died from cancer but the two brothers were there but didn't know that that was going to be the banner that was unfurled.

It's a really emotional article. Yeah, and it's a beautiful gesture I think from the, I presume it's the Holmesdale fanatics, the Palace Ultra group who arranged the Tifos, but they did it in the semi-final as well. They did a Tifo that was based on a photo of a young child with his hood up clutching a player's shirt that had been thrown to him, I think, in another cup game. And it is really, really poignant to see that the fans are kind of like acknowledging these... It's not of a player, it's of fan culture. They're kind of referring to the suffering, I suppose, of being a Palace fan. And yeah, I mean, God knows what it felt like for the two lads to be there seeing Atifov of themselves with

their dad. That must have been a kind of otherworldly experience. But I think those fans at the semi-final transformed Wembley. That is the most foreign Wembley has ever felt to me. It felt like being in a German ground. Just the wall of noise is constant from those fanatics. And it was the same at the cup final. They lifted the day. I thought the... I know we're all meant to say that pyro's bad and it's illegal and you shouldn't take it into grounds, but it looks amazing and it looks amazing at Wembley. And the message of Wembley will shake

and it will be beautiful. They set, that set the tone. They enjoyed their day. And I was speaking to someone on the train on the way there who'd been at the Carabao Cup final. And he said that you could tell going into the Carabao Cup final that it meant more to Newcastle than to Liverpool. That the Newcastle fans made Wembley their own and it was exactly the same

feeling among the Palace fans on Saturday. That was a day that genuinely meant history for them and I think that I think that matters. Let's talk to Joel Ward then, the man who lifted the FA Cup at the end. He disappointingly looks in better nick than all the rest of us. So I was hoping you were going to come on here having had a really heavy weekend, have you not? It's been an emotionally draining weekend. I'm not going to lie, I've had probably the biggest week of my life, I think. I had my birth and my daughter on Thursday, the cup final on Saturday.

Oh my god. And then my daughter will be my friend off on Tuesday night from Palace. Wow. It's a week to remember, that's for sure. Did you allow yourself to think in the build up? I mean, obviously you had the birth of your child to deal with as well But did you allow yourself to think in the build-up? I could believe in the club at the end of this after more than 300 appearances as an FA Cup winner Did you allow yourself to dream that?

I think there was a quiet belief From my side. I know there was definitely the belief from the team and the club that we could do it and people had kind of mentioned it, close friends, that the writing was on the wall, that something special was on the cards. So, you know, I think I didn't want to get too carried away, but it was there for the take-in. And I'm so proud of the group of lads that done it and created history for this club. What was it like on the bench? Do you know what? I got asked this the other day and even earlier today as well.

even earlier today as well. I had a really calm experience. Also in the second half, about 60, 65 minutes getting towards the end, I had a real lightest sense of peace, which was probably strange because at the start of the game, my adrenaline was going, my knees were knocking, I was shaking. But then it just kind of seemed that everything was going in the right way. Everything was on our side and there was a bigger hand in play for sure. Joe, you talk about you had the belief. What was that belief based on? Was it recent performances, momentum going into the game? Did the team get belief in a strange sort of way from the fact you went two up at Manchester City not so long ago, nearly three up, but they came back and walloped you that day? But did you get anything from them? I think, listen, I think there's a lot of players within the group that are players that want to achieve

great things and want to go on and win things and have that mentality and that mindset. I think as well the manager had installed an air of confidence around it and had given us the belief to go on and kind of make history for the club. What we'd done at the weekend was incredible, but it's not something that we haven't done already throughout this season in terms of the principles and the way in which we play and how we go about the game. We knew we had to tweak little things here and there because you know in the last four games against City we've scored twice in each game but just haven't been able to hold them away and the weekend the game plan worked perfectly and yeah I mean this goes down in history. How much, Joel, through last week, was the work done at the club defensively?

Because we talked about it afterwards, the sheer physical and mental exertion that the whole team put in, actually. And I thought the way Saar and Eze, every time a City winger got the ball, immediately dropped in to support the wing back. I mean, everybody was in the right place every single time a City player got the ball. So how much work had been done on that? It's been a combination of, what is it now, 15, 14 months since the manager's come in. He's drilled it into us and he demands a lot from us on a daily basis.

And that's why I said it's not something that we haven't done before. We've done it time and time again. We've done it at Arsenal a couple of weeks ago, obviously before the semi-final and then we done it at Villa as well and performed so well at Wembley again. We knew there were certain things that we had to protect. We knew there were certain things that we weren't going to allow ourselves to do and sometimes if you jump and you press in certain areas of the pitch, City pick you apart and that's when they get their chances.

We had to be very disciplined, we had to be very patient and thankfully it paid off. Joel, the goal looked from the outside like it had been worked on on the training ground. Is that right? Was that something you'd spent time figuring out, this is the way that we break when we get the chance? Yeah, I think when you look at it, we know City are great at pressing. They don't give you any time, any space. So if we could draw them onto us and then obviously you still need a little bit of luck to go your way. But then we could play forward and play beyond the press and then obviously JP managed to hold the ball up and Danny, like he does time and time again

throughout this season, he was bombing up the right-hand side and obviously got himself into a fantastic position and Ebs done what Ebs does, found himself in front of goal and slid at home. He's off the scale Munoz isn't he? I mean his work rate and stat isn't he? Considering that's your position as well, do you look at him and go, blimey? I've more seen myself as the right side centre back now. He's been outstanding this season, like a lot of the lads have, but Danny's mentality, his work ethic, his professionalism is exceptional and he deserves all the plaudice he's got, especially from this weekend. Joel, I was just going to ask you about the manager, obviously. You guys are good down as hero,

but I really liked how he spoke after the game about how sport and football can bring these memories to people and stuff. How much respect does it pose and you have for him and how he's carried out his job? And of course, you guys have made history now for this football club. history now for this football club? Yeah, he's really set the tone for the club and for us players. He's given us so much and he's given us a different way of looking at things. He mentioned that before the game as well, that the biggest thing that we've done already is give these fans moments that will live on into their life and moments that they will never forget, moments that will relieve them from the daily pressures that they're under at times.

And so that was a special message and I think the way in which he's gone about since he's come into this club and taken this club to new heights and obviously taken this club into Europe for the first time and to win a major trophy for the first time is testament to his drive and his passion and his way of doing things as well. Did you have your heart in your mouth when the VAR check was on for Dean Henderson and the potential red card? You know what, I was actually warming up when it all unfolded and when it happened. And obviously to the naked eye it looked for me that he was in the box, but obviously when you slow it down,

you know, pictures show what it shows. But like I said said there was a bigger hand in play for that day and the writing was on the wall and you know obviously it was sometimes you need things to fall in in the right way and it certainly did for us and you know Dean was exceptional he was outstanding on the day and you know I think he was man of the match from the Palace fans. And obviously Danny got man of the match on the day. But Dino made some incredible saves and kept us in the game. And, you know, I'd like to say as well,

every single player put their body on the line. That wasn't the first, that was kind of the first thing that they done. They blocked, they tackled, they worked effortlessly from start to finish. I think when you roll it back, we fully deserved to walk away with that FA Cup. As I say, more than 300 appearances for the club 13 years ago was when you joined. Can you explain the feelings when the FA Cup is handed to you?

No, quite frankly, to be honest it was incredibly humbling and emotionally filled Day Obviously to lift that and to start my career with lifting a lifting the playoff trophy at Palace and then obviously, you know being a part of history at this club And to cap it off with winning the FA Cup. I don't think you could write it And it's a special special day and a moment that I'll never forget Joel had you had you already named your daughter and have you subsequently gone back and suggested something like Wembley or ever actually Or football Association Challenge cook anything like that? I've thrown a few names out there, but but yeah, and I she she was already named

there's no going back and Happy with with our daughter, which is amazing. Brilliant. Listen, congratulations on the birth of your daughter to you and the family and congratulations on the weekend. What an amazing, amazing few days you've had. Enjoy tomorrow night. That will be something special, won't it? It will.

It will. I mean, you know, the atmosphere that's going to be at Palace tomorrow night, I think is going to be like no other. The buzz around the place, I think everyone's still in obviously on Cloud 9, especially the fans. So the roof is going to be lifted and it'll be an incredible night. Well, congratulations again. Enjoy tomorrow, enjoy the rest of the season and the summer off.

You've also achieved an impossible this evening because it is the first time Chris has smiled through a whole interview on this show. So you've given Chris a warm fuzzy feeling as well. Thank you, Joel. Always good to have you on. Well done, Joel. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Thank you. Cheers. Joel Ward with us on the Monday night club so Pallis involved. I wonder what he's called his daughter. I'm going for Crystal. You don't want to. That is a good shout. Didn't say in the end did he? No. Well sometimes.

He's got his right to his privacy. That's why I didn't go in with a follow-up. You just text us your ideas there at home? MNC and BBC. I reckon we hadn't told people, like our friends, what I thought was told within five days, so I suspect Joel Wood didn't want to announce it on national radio. What are the challenges going forward? I don't want to now be negative about Palace, but now the vultures are going to circle,

aren't they Rory? I don't know, you know. I genuinely don't know. I think that all Premier League clubs now have so much money because of the TV deals that if you look at, if you go through that Palisade, you make a case that La Croix, Munoz, Warton, Eze obviously and probably Mateta who Seen Jean-Philippe Mateta in the flesh is is remarkable. He's he is a wonderful player to watch

Yeah, I saw Dion Dublin at half-time as we were queuing for cupcakes, which sums up mine and Dion's Wembley experience Jaffas, I don't know if you had someone to bring cupcakes to you normally That's how you you operate in these scenarios He's not denying it Well that's because actually somebody did bring me a cupcake half time I have to say Me and the Hammers, Dion Dublin have to go and get our own cupcakes And Dion was talking about the security that Meteta offers And that's what allows that goal to happen that Munoz can gamble

Because he knows Mateta will keep the ball and if you don't I did it the way that Dion explained I thought was really kind of I'm sure Chris would do a similar job explaining it But the way that Dion puts it I thought was really really kind of clear to me That as soon as the ball comes to Mateta because he's so good at protecting it Munoz can can go and that and that's where that goal comes from. But they've got five or six players who I think would be really tempting for bigger clubs. But Palace have money, they will be able to reward them with new contracts. I think they are a very sensible club in terms of not limiting people's ambitions.

This old Michael Alise to Bayern last summer. I wonder whether they could very easily go to all of them and say look if If an offer comes in that you're really tempted by that meets our demands We will sell you but we feel in most of those cases There's though you've still got another level to find at Crystal Palace that there is you you'll have European football certainly something like water Nor like why you'll have European football. Don't go to I I don't know, Manchester United and be an option. Stay here, develop for another season and play in Europe. I think that's quite an enticing, I think that's a decent sort of sales pitch for Palace. I don't think they should be particularly

worried. Chris? I think the Europa League is absolutely massive, but having said that, we know the way things work and Rory is talking in an ideal world. I think it's a bit of a fantasy world as well because the likes of players as mentioned, Eza Warton. I mean, Warton's been linked with a lot of clubs already. If they get an opportunity to play up with respect to Crystal Palace where the club will want to try and build from here. But they've been a very, very stable Premier League club for a long time now. If you look at the last decade, whatever, 11th, 14th, in between, they've

been extremely consistent. The biggest joy in all this and what I've taken from it and I hope other clubs are Sort of cottoning onto it you mentioned at the weekend Newcastle winning the League Cup and and Crystal Palace winning the FA Cup But I do think it's a bit of a game changer now for other clubs to look at Palace Newcastle as an example Well, you know start taking these competitions seriously and you see the joy it brings you your support. What word would you use to describe City's performance Chris? Erm, what word?

Incipit really, I just, I mean they have picked up, their recent results surprised me actually I think in the Premier League they'd been on a pretty decent run but I mean they have picked up their recent results surprised me actually I think in the in the Premier League They've been on a on a pretty decent run, but I mean I've been at games I was at the Everton game where they huffed and puffed this result wasn't a great surprise I mean it wasn't it wasn't a shock You know that that city lost to Palace There are certain things which, you know, the whole stuff surrounding the penalty which we've already touched on, I find it amazing that whole situation that

they didn't have a designated penalty taker. I think they did. Well did they? Because did Pep not say after the game that he expected Harlan to take it? Yeah, so I think Harlan… Pep Guardiola after us says, I don't know, I didn't speak to them. They made the decision, they decided. I find that staggering. I mean, Shea, you played as well. Rory and Mark, you played at a different level, but I didn't know you probably would have known who your penalty taker was when you went out in the Sunday League.

Sometimes it was me, Chris. Well, there you go. What was your record like Chapters? It's a long time ago. I bet he just put his foot through it. Yeah. Best way to get back to Chris. Yeah it's a great deal. Let's say it was 100% for arguments. But you know like the devil's in the detail, How does it come to that at Manchester City, where it's sort of up in the air who's taking the penalties? And then why is it for Harlan to decide that Mamouche is taking it if he doesn't fancy it? I think it's staggering.

I mean, how many times have we talked over the years on here about sort of small margins about you know sort of you know when the long throws came in and you know set pieces this season Arsenal lots of praise and then Manchester City you know the players don't know who's supposed to be on penalties and just from a striker's perspective Chris so his penalty record at City's scored 21 and missed five. The last one he missed was in the quarter final against Bournemouth. There's always the focus on the number that someone misses.

A bit like when we went through a period in boxing where it felt like if you were going to be successful you weren't allowed to lose a fight. You had to have an unbeaten record. If you lost a fight, then your journey was gonna be set, of course, so you're never gonna get back. Occasionally, someone misses. Sometimes it might be a great save. Surely a record of 21 scored and five missed

would indicate keep taking the penalties. The other thing that sort of winds me up, Haaland's the main man. Like we talk about Man City and we talk about Haaland, Haaland isn't Haaland, which is fine. If Pep's led that decision up to the players on the pitch, which he said after the game he did do, Haaland should be picking the ball up, which he did do, and saying I'm the main man, I've just signed an eight-year contract with her, I will show you when the pressure's on I will step up and I will take this penalty and I will score.

That's the mindset I would think from a top striker and I am shocked if Chris Sutton's name was on the thing that he would pass it on to somewhere else or Alan Shearer or whoever that Matt Letizzi or whoever has taken penalties over the years. In a big moment, that's when you want your big players to step up. I'll go back to what I said a couple of minutes ago. It's astonishing that Manchester City players didn't know who was taking the penalty and then for Harlan to seemingly choose the players to decide. It is baffling a player who has scored so many goals, he's a prolific finisher, maybe didn't feel it in that moment. And in fairness, if he didn't feel it, then he's entitled or there's another player entitled

to take it, of course, but surely you ask the manager who's going to take it. You don't decide that yourself. And that's amateur hour from Pepin Manchester City. It just is. I may be wrong and I don't know the game may have changed but I cannot believe that that actually panned out like it did. That a player decides if he doesn't want to take it who the next taker should be. That's not his decision to make. There was an instance, I can't remember what it was, relatively recently where Harland passed a penalty to Ilkai Gundogan.

Oh, I've got this. So this was against Leeds a couple of years ago. Gundogan was on a hat trick, Sissi were leading 2-0. Harland gave the ball to Gundogan and Gundogan missed. Guardiola could be seen shouting, you have to take it. And afterwards he said, a taker is a taker. At 2-0 this is a business, it's not a situation where we cannot forget it. That seems quite definitive to me. That is how managers generally react on the not, you know Rare but not completely infrequent occasions when players decide that actually somebody else should be taking the penalty or normally someone decides that they're taking the penalty Regardless of who the designated taker is managers don't know they don't like it

Does it partly does it presume there's some sort of psychological impact but parties it's their orders being Kind of disregarded you I don't think you do that I don't you very rarely see a player say, do you know what, I actually fancied on on the right wind for a bit now, so I'm just gonna go and do that. Like the manager sets these things and they expect it to be obeyed.

Guardiola afterwards was very kind of, not downbeat, but you know, very kind of flat and level about it. He said, oh, they decided on the pitch, I didn't talk to them. I presume he has been rather angrier in private, but the idea that they just decided, you know, to do what they want in a cup final and that he should sort of suggest that's, yeah, that was on them, you'll have to ask them what happened. I do find that, without wanting to sort

of wind Chris up, I find it genuinely remarkable that that's been allowed to happen in a game of that importance. It's very unusual and I'm not quite sure what it says about Guardiola's mindset or Harland's mindset or the kind of general state of play at City. Moving on from that, do you think Jack Grealish is done at Manchester City? Well, I was obviously at the game watching and obviously I've got a soft spot for Jack because I played with him at Aston Villa and I just think the way he's been treated has been nothing. Jack's probably not helped himself at times with different things but I've said it before

in here, I think he's a generational talent. I think he's that good. I think you want to build your team around him. And now this back to back FA Cup finals, when you need a goal, you've got Jack Grealish on the bench and you don't use him. I mean at the weekend they used Ed Shevery who made his debut for Manchester City in the cup final when he needed the goal. And then even been on the bench I don't think since he joined in January. I'm not saying this guy's not gonna be a great player he's only a kid like and he's

had an amazing season and you'll probably roll this back to me in a couple of years when he's ripping it up. No no but that doesn't mean that this bit is wrong. When you've got a multiple winner and you've got an international player and he's and he's of the caliber of Jack Greelish, I think it's criminal that he didn't get on the pitch for both Cup Finals, back to back Cup Finals. And yes, the writing's on the wall. I don't even know why Pep brought him to London at the weekend. He might as well say Jack stay at home because it doesn't matter what's happening.

You're not coming on. I can't even believe no one asked Pep after the game you've just brought a kid on give him his debut in a cup final when you're chasing the goal and you've got Jack Reddy's running up the end touchline trying to warm up trying to trying to get a game I was I was you can tell you probably tell me boys I'm still angry for Jack because I just felt so sorry for him and people go feel sorry for Jack Reddy that's ridiculous but what I'm saying is as a footballer you want these as he had his what's the best way to put this, I don't know, love of football knocked out of him at the moment.

Well I don't know, love of football, you don't have love of football if you're on the pitch. Yeah but that's what I mean, you know, the carefree Jack Grealish, has the system meant he's lost that? Possibly, I think when he plays he he's a, I said it before, sometimes a mannequin on the left wing told him to keep discipline, keep the shape. And I think Jack's, look, the Broners leaving in the summer, I think they've got the perfect replacement to play central in the pockets in someone like Jack Reelies. Now after what's happened, I don't think Jack may even play for Man City again. That's where he's at. For his career,

for himself personally, he has to see what's out there. But I still think he's got an amazing talent. I think he's still got plenty of years left in him. I think someone will get somebody who's a brilliant player. I sort of understand. I think his race is run at Manchester City. I do. I sort of understand. I think his race is run at Manchester City. I do. He needs to get back playing and somebody will take him. You talk about he's always a player who seemed to enjoy playing football. That seems sort of lost on him now. Just want to touch on Bernardo Silva's comments after the game. You would have seen them. This would worry me if I'm a Manchester City fan. He said, you learn a lot of new things after a difficult season. In the bad moments, you learn new things.

Who you can go to war with, first of all, because it's in the bad moments that you see who the real ones are. If I'm one of his teammates in the dressing room, that's quite pointed, that is. And I think Manchester City, I don't know today, they've all been in, I think sort of, I don't think this is a back in my day moment, I think players have that out and say, well, who are you talking about? That's not a good sign if you're a sort of Manchester City supporter looking in where there's no... Do you think he's talking about the whole season there rather than just the cup final? He's talking about players within the dressing room who haven't got the right

character, temperament, whatever it is. He's calling his teammates out. I am really surprised. I understand emotion after the game and players are totally hacked off. But that is, you know, that's opening a whole can of worms that is. And then, you know, if you put everything in the mix of what's happened, you know, no designated penalty taker, Bernardo Silva coming out and firing shots in the dressing room, I thought that, you know, where does Sydney go from here? How are they going to bring it back next season? And it wouldn't be a great surprise if they did come back and win the Premier League, but I just, I think, I understand the sort of team spirit thing and you know when teams win cups they all say oh you know what was the most important thing or league titles and everyone says the team

spirit and it's you know they're in a situation now, typical situation, when it all starts going wrong what happens? Everybody starts blaming each other. And it's interesting, I think it's a bit more deep-seated than that, Chris, that you add into that, you've got the fact that de Bruyne clearly has been blindsided by the fact that City don't want him to stay. That you can tell, not even reading between the lines with de Bruyne, but there is a sort of pain there, that he's not happy about that. Grealish has, as Shea says, been given two cup finals where he's not got on the pitch.

Pep said afterwards, beforehand, I think that Kovacic was dropped as he didn't feel completely right, so let's chalk that one up to injury, that's fine. But no Rico Lewis and no James Mataty on the bench. Mataty has been linked with, he is someone who will be I think joining by Lebedouz and Chris, but he's a homegrown talent who surely should

have been ahead of Echeveiri, who is clearly a very gifted Argentinian playmaker, but did not seem to be in line to be on the pitch of the top final from anything that's happened in his entire Manchester City career. You look at the transfers in January, Kusanoff, Vittor Reis, Marmouch has been a success I think that's that's fair enough but they spent 180 million quid in January for not a vast amount of money. Nico Gonzalez. It all looks suddenly very, I don't know, for a club that's been such a kind of monument to efficiency that's made every you know every decision at City has been right, everything has been, they've got everything spot on,

it's worked perfectly. Even if you take away the backing of a nation state, the wealth advantage they have, they've used that money incredibly smartly, they've been this kind of slick machine. And now it does look a little bit like it's all kind of falling apart at the same time. And I'm the same as Chris,

my position for a long time has been City will be the Premier League champions in 2026 but that journey looks a lot harder than it used to. Do you think City will be in the Champions League in 2026? Are they, you alright there? Good question. Thanks. That's where we got them on Chris. It's not the most in-depth one I've ever asked to be honest with you but I mean they've got two horrible fixtures to finish with in Bournemouth at home and Fulham away and find themselves at the moment in sixth out of the Champions League. Two tough games. It's De Bruyne's last home game as well. They had Faithful tomorrow night. I'm sure they'll be there to give him a huge send-off again. It was a big ask on De Bruyne on Saturday. He's going to go again tomorrow night against a really good Bournemouth team. As you say, Fulham after their result of the weekend as well. It's not a done deal. The race

for Champions League is absolutely huge. I just look at Pep and I don't know if he's had enough. league is absolutely huge. I don't know, I just look at Pep and I just don't know if he's had enough or he's, I know he signed a contract this season but I don't know, it doesn't inspire me that he wants to be there much longer. I don't know if that's, you know, would that really be a question or would that be the end of the road for him or do you think that's, he's going to stay, rebuild the team and stay for another three, four years? You know the teams he's been at before, he's doubled the time there now at Manchester City. I'm not saying we want to see the back of him, just saying, you know, does he look tired? Does he get angry with

you guys in the press or whatever? I don't know. What's your feeling? Is he leaving Rory? Yeah. I don't, not that I know of and he signed a two-year contract in November or whatever it was. I think he said, he's always sort of said Pep, that he has periods where he feels tired. And I think that's completely natural for someone who works at his level of intensity. Look at Chris, Chris also works at that level of intensity and by the summer he's tired. You can tell, because he's smiling.

It's not normal. This isn't Chris at his absolute best. But Pep said something earlier this year in terms of kind of having lost his enthusiasm and having to find it again. That even for him felt a little bit further on that journey. It felt a more pronounced thing to say. My guess has always been that he signed a two year contract so that he could do what

Klopp did and you leave halfway through. So I thought he might stay until 2026, at which point the World Cup would have finished, there might be some international jobs knocking about, he might decide that was a more appropriate kind of step. Do you think if they don't make Champions League this season, obviously no trophies that he would say that's a wrap, like you don't think that's the case? If I'm completely honest, I don't think they'll ever sack him, I don't think Manchester City will ever sack Pep Guardiola, but I don't think he can bring himself to step away. I think he's addicted to managing football teams and he'd still look at City and think it is the best place

for him to build what he wants. The thing that I don't know is whether he can build what he wants at City in the next year. I think it looks a little bit like he's... I agree with you, Shane. I think he looks less inspired than he used to. Women's Football Weekly on the Football Daily. I'm Ben Haynes.

I'm Ellen White. And I'm Jen Beattie. And on Tuesdays on the Football Daily, we bring you the Women's Football Weekly. Really pleased with the fact we are now champions and we got this title. We had time to enjoy with the fans and we'll have some time with friends and family after the game as we dive head first into all things WSL and beyond in the women's game. Women's football weekly only on the Football Daily. Listen now on BBC Sounds. The Football Daily podcast with Mark Chapman. Jamie Vardy next on the Monday night club.

He got his 200th Leicester goal on Sunday in what was his 500th and final appearance for the club. He's not going to be playing on the final weekend. So that's a great set. 200 goals after 500 appearances. Coming exactly 13 years since the club made paid a million pounds to sign him from Fleetwood. It was also lovely that the manager that signed him, Nigel Pits, and was able to be at the King Power yesterday for the goodbye. Great for him to score,

guard of honour there as well, which was done with enthusiasm, some career shey. Yeah it's amazing, it really is Rive de Rovere stuff, non-league football to Premier League winner and multiple goal scorer. He's had a brilliant career, hasn't he? I don't think it's over yet. I think he still wants to play at the right age of 38 and he could probably still do a job wherever he's going to end up. The only one thing when he's sounding really old here now, but what doesn't sit well with me is they've got another game to play. I don't understand Farrow around 200 goals. But say he hadn't scored at the weekend, would he have left it at 1.99 not played next weekend? I don't really get that. He's contrasted it at the end of June, it's not to

whenever he says it. That's just me getting grumpy and old and Leicester fans roaring at the radio and I think, get him off. Because it is a fairytale story, it's a brilliant send offoff, I get all that but at the same time I don't know when the player starts picking Intusion, when they want to finish the season. I guess with nothing to play for it's probably alright isn't it? Are you saying they shouldn't pay him? Well, he's contract's at the end of June, he's got an hour of game left, why does he just decide to not play him? Is that ok with you guys, just pick and choose when you want to play?

Well, I'm here every Monday. Very pretty, Chris. That's dedication. That is dedication. Yeah. That's more down to others' availability. I take your grumpiness. I take... I understand your grumpiness, but these are all... I mean mean it's a unique set of circumstances.

For example Mark, had he didn't score at the weekend he would have played again. But he said before that doesn't matter if he scored or not. I just don't understand that. Chris would you want to play next weekend? Who's it against? Bournemouth away I think off the top of my head. It's a long trip isn't it? No, I do understand what you're saying but you know there is also the flip side of that the service he's given Leicester.

I think it's going to feel really strange next season as a Leicester City fan because you know that familiarity Vardy you know their season in season out scoring goals, the memory of winning the Premier League. He took his goal brilliantly at the weekend, wrong-footing the Ipswich goalkeeper. He's still 38, how he is still in that condition to play. It's not as quick as he was, his brain works so so well even the link up play for the goal there but not the goal against Nottingham Forest the previous week I feel I sort of feel sorry for him this season because he's been starved of any real service and he's still he's still done all right and yeah what should he do next?

He said he wants to play in the Premier League doesn't he? There was an idea that he might go to Wrexham which would obviously be from a brand point of view a very good idea but I think he said pretty clearly he doesn't think he's finished at the top level. But what kind of Premier League striker would he be next season? Is he going to be an option off the bench somewhere? I think he has to be, yeah. But why would he want to do that?

It's an interesting question, but why would any player want to sign for a club, especially at his age, to think, well I'm just going to play a cameo here for 15 minutes. I don't think that is what he would want. I may be miles out, but I don't think that would be somebody of his age's sort of mindset. Well, I'll go and sit on the bench and get that 15 minutes here, 20 minutes there, and that will do me. The one thing I can't quite see is which Premier League club takes him. That's the difficult part of that. Do you think it has to be a promoted club? Well, yeah.

But then again, you're in the same position as he was this year. We've seen the three promoted clubs have struggled this year. So, Leeds? I think he actually makes a lot of sense for Leeds if he can overcome his inherent Sheffield Wednesday fan status. I think he makes that into the experience, the fact that there aren't that many proven goal scorers who are available. Leeds have got plenty of goals in the team but they don't have a focal point question about whether Joao Pirro can make the step up. I think there's a logic to Leeds,

there'd probably be a similar logic to Burnley who will need a goal threat. Obviously defensively they've been brilliant this season. I'm presuming that Jamie Vardy won't sign for Sheffield United if they get promoted. No, no. But maybe Sunderland, you know, I think, yeah, well any of those, or even, I mean,

But again, like if you say a promoted club, is he not gonna be in a struggling team then? You know, all the teams. But he's still playing top level, isn't he? Yeah, but does he want that? He's just had a season, we just talked literally two minutes ago about him being star of the service all season and not giving the chances. Does he want to go through that with another promoted team and not get the service or chances

maybe at a bigger team? I think it'd be better off playing at a bigger team and coming off the bench and being a backup striker and enjoying the last couple of years, or he goes to America, or what you mentioned before, Rory is Wrexham you know again just talk about making a film of Jamie Vardy's career and stuff and all that kind of stuff it feels like a Hollywood film in a sense and maybe that's you know the perfect place for him to finish his career. What about Celtic? Celtic could be an option Chris. The numbers. The Rangers both level on 55 titles.

Celtic are the world champions now aren't they? More trophies than Rangers. The world champions? Rangers were the world's most successful club until a while ago but now it's Celtic. Rangers were the world's most successful club right up until a while ago, but now it's Celtic He scored 34 goals Jamie Vardy before he was 30 when we're looking at the Premier League 111 after turning 30 there aren't many who've gone that way Ian right was it was the other big one who was 20 before 30 and then 93 after 30. So the numbers

themselves indicate he would still do a job somewhere. Yeah I think the other argument around Vardy is that because his career had that kind of what is now quite an unusual path so obviously it was at Stoke's Bridge Park Steels and he worked up through Halifax and Fleetwood that he wasn't playing 60 games a season at the Premier League Champions League from the age of 17. He started later, which is, I think, maybe helped him have that kind of longer autumn to his career. So I think he will certainly see that he can offer something to a team in the top flight, even if it is as an option off the bench or as a rotation option He's always had that hunger that

That kind of desire that I mean speaking to plays who played against him He sounds like an absolute pest to play against and I don't think that has diminished at all I I'm not sure that any Premier League defender would ever look across to the touchline 60-70 minutes into a game and think oh oh good, Jamie Vardy's coming on, I'm not sure that's a sentence anyone has ever uttered. So he does, I think, still have something to offer and he does have that kind of, that snap and that snarl and that bite about him which I think is his testament to where he's come from and he always feels like he plays with a chip on his shoulder, Jamie Vardy, that won't have diminished. I can see someone thinking he's worth having around.

It'll depend a little bit on how much money he wants because he was on a decent whack at Leicester but I can believe that anyone in that bottom half of the Premier League might look at him and think that is not a bad idea for a season. The adoration from Leicester fans is understandable. Sometimes, Chris, I think maybe the wider footballing community just needs a nudge on some of the things that he actually Achieved you know including the the longest goal scorer run in the Premier League you were 11 consecutive games scoring He won the Golden Boot in 2920 he has the Premier League as a title he has an FA Cup winners medal he reached a

Champions League quarterfinal a semi-final in the Europa Conference League, two championship titles. You know, he is, he can put his medals where his mouth is. Yeah, absolutely and I actually think you know when we talk about Vardy and of course he is quick and that was one of his great attributes but I actually think he's one of those strikers who doesn't get enough credit for his actual game intelligence and his instinct and his anticipation. All those things work well when you have blistering pace, but take the pace out. He's always thinking two yards ahead of how certain situations are going to unfold and that's what makes him special.

I mean how he's playing at 38, I remember just when I was about 32, 33 and sort of coming to the end of my career physically, kept getting niggles and what have you. So how he carries on, keeps himself conditioned, is I mean, he's a freak in many ways. Because a lot of players as they get older, they sort of move back in the pitch, don't they? You know, centre forwards would go back and play centre halves or, you know, just thinking about Paul Scoles when he went back to Manchester United, they dragged him to the back and, you know, wonderful wonderful football brain but he played a deeper role when he went back into the team. You know Vardy's playing at the sort of toughest end of the pitch with respect to to Shea in

terms of you know sort of physically and you have to have that sort of naus and that that understanding that you know the hardest thing is to is to score goals and and he will score goals if he gets the service. Hardest thing to create at all. That's rubbish. Oh my god. I was just making me own business as well. I tell you what that is, that's an observer line there. Absolutely fine, I'll tell you that.

Hardest thing to create at all. The other thing about Vardy is that he's one of the great characters in the Premier League and if this does prove to be the last time he plays in the Premier League, not just for Leicester, the Premier League loses something. Because he's a really compelling figure, like as part of the overall product of the Premier League. He's been a major kind of fixture in the public imagination for 10 years, Jamie Vardy. So I know what you mean, Chappers, about

people being a little bit slow on the uptake in terms of the actual kind of scale of his achievements, but I think people will... No, I think... Missing is maybe wrong, but... I'm not sure Sloan the uptaker's right. I think because of his story and going non-league to Premier League and only costing a million pounds, I think that is always the first line in the story when looking at Jamie Vardy, rather than actually when you drill down into numbers and medals and stats and records, he's got it all.

Yeah, the fairy tale kind of takes over and people kind of stop at the fairy tale rather than thinking actually he's had an incredibly successful career. But I think he'll be missed as he is, missed maybe isn't quite the right word. Well, anyone is. I think people will notice his absence. No, I don't think other fans of Lord of the Cuckoo miss him. Have they made a mess of trying to find a replacement for him or do you think Shea you can only find a replacement for him once he's gone because he's because whilst he's there he's irreplaceable.

Yeah I think so it's a difficult one I think. That's why I came to you. I think it's interesting to think like Jamie Vardy when you think of Jamie Vardy you think of the Leicester top you think and picking up the trophy you think of the right the cheeky chap of the celebrations when he's at away fans winding people up pointing to the Premier League badge. He's won it once, you know, shooting fans. I love all that. He's got personality, he's got character and he loves winding people up.

But because he's there at the club, he's going to play. Yeah, yeah. But a bit like De Bruyne, for example, when De Bruyne leaves, could you see him in a Liverpool shirt? When Jamie Vardy leaves, could you see him in, I don't know, Forest shirt? I don't know I don't think so I don't think so I think he'll either go to maybe like a Wrexham or he'll go to MLS or he'll go somewhere else But can you only attract the well I'm saying I suppose what I'm saying Chris is can you only attract the right kind of player to replace him once he's gone

because then you can say right you are... It's a clean break isn't it then? Yeah and yeah, I think there would always be that that fear from I mean for example Pat Sandacca, you know, they signed him and I think his record for Salzburg, I think Rory I'm right was pretty sensational before he went there, but but you know, he may not I before he went there but but you know he may not have I don't know he may not have been aware just sort of how good Jamie Vardy was and probably went there and thought well you know you know pretty big signing for them I'm gonna take his place he maybe had the confidence to do that but yeah I think

now that Vardy has left there's a clean slate but the problem the next striker is going to have is that there's always going to be that comparison to Jamie Vardy and the long list of medals and achievements and they'll always be compared but Leicester have got a lot of issues haven't they next season in in terms of going down. They've got to make a decision over the manager. Other players, I'm sure, will end up leaving, so it's going to be one hell of a summer for Leicester. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Shay. Thank you, Rory. Thank you very much for listening.